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Author Topic: Garrison without tokens  (Read 2968 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Garrison without tokens
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2022, 10:55:22 pm »
0


So this means (if we call it a ruling) that Cargo Ship with no set-aside card is discarded in clean-up. Donald says it's discarded even if a card might be gained later in the turn. To me this means that we only consider the current game state at that point (when discarding in clean-up) when evaluating whether the card has something left to do after this turn.

I think your conclusion is correct, but what I'm saying is that Donald's last post that you quote here, while giving a "ruling" that applies to Cargo Ship and Garrison, was also said in the context of only talking about whether Durations should be "have something left to do" or "will do something on a future turn". Although the quote mentions Cargo Ship, it could just as easily have been about Squirrel or Seal instead (and I think everything he said does apply equally to all of them). He doesn't say anything that's specific to Cargo Ship's unique situation (which is the same as Garrison's).

All I'm saying is that a rule specifying that Durations need to do something next turn, and not only "have something left to do", isn't sufficient. Another rule is also needed which addresses cards where you don't know if they will do something next turn.
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Donald X.

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Re: Garrison without tokens
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2022, 02:07:59 am »
+2

Tentatively we are going to consider the rulebook's

"Players do not discard Duration cards in Clean-up if they have something left to do; they stay in play until the Clean-up of the last turn that they do something."

to mean that in fact things happening after we'd discard the Duration card but during the same turn are not considered. If Cargo Ship has nothing set aside it's discarded when you get to discarding it, even if you could gain something later that turn due to Donate / Catacombs or what have you. Players do not discard Duration cards in Clean-up if they have something left to do after this turn.

The idea is that Clean-up is actually the last thing happening in the turn; and I mean again I will revisit Donate's wording when I get to.
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Donald X.

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Re: Garrison without tokens
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2022, 02:11:03 am »
+1

All I'm saying is that a rule specifying that Durations need to do something next turn, and not only "have something left to do", isn't sufficient. Another rule is also needed which addresses cards where you don't know if they will do something next turn.
You can ask a way more specific question if you want.

At the point at which it's time to discard Cargo Ship, if it's got nothing set up for next turn, it's discarded. The fact that we might gain a card later in the turn is not considered. We have to already have a commitment to a post-turn action at the point at which we're in Clean-up staring at Cargo Ship.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Garrison without tokens
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2022, 09:47:18 am »
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The idea is that Clean-up is actually the last thing happening in the turn; and I mean again I will revisit Donate's wording when I get to.

This reminds me of the whole "Substance" keyword that briefly existed on a bunch of MTG cards (though was never printed); created specifically for the purpose of dealing with the order that stuff was happening in during cleanup.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Garrison without tokens
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2022, 09:52:21 am »
+1

If not for various cards like Archive, Durations could have had a very simple and easy "Duration cards stay in play if they were played the same turn; they get discarded in your next turn's cleanup phase". Back when it was just Seaside, all Durations worked this way anyway other than rare Haven and Tactician scenarios. Obviously that cargo ship has sailed.
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