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Author Topic: Allies Preview 5: More Cards  (Read 15284 times)

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mxdata

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2022, 12:15:39 pm »
+2

Are the favor tokens removed before scoring, or can the Family of Inventors cause more cards to cost 2 for Plateau Shepherds?  (I hope it's the latter, that would be pretty bonkers.)

Edit: Never mind, I forgot you can't have more than one Ally.  If you could, though...

If you *could* combine them, then you could do a really cruel trick if your opponent bought a bunch of $2 cantrips like Pawn by putting a token on that pile, making them worthless for Plateau Shepherds ...
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Marpharos

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2022, 12:16:27 pm »
+3

Are the favor tokens removed before scoring, or can the Family of Inventors cause more cards to cost 2 for Plateau Shepherds?  (I hope it's the latter, that would be pretty bonkers.)

Edit: Never mind, I forgot you can't have more than one Ally.  If you could, though...

I went through the same mix of emotions once I realised…
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Violet CLM

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2022, 12:17:54 pm »
+4

I don't understand the power level of Importer; isn't it just way too good? Vampire is already a very good $5-card gainer (and yeah, it's non-terminal and does other good things), but it costs $5 itself, not $3. At the very least Importer is strictly way better than Feast, right? Feast trashes itself as a penalty, and costs more. Importer can be used again and again, and you can buy it before the first shuffle.
Importer only works every other turn at most. Feast was removed from second edition; it's probably okay to be better than a bad card.
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Holger

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2022, 12:32:51 pm »
0

I don't understand the power level of Importer; isn't it just way too good? Vampire is already a very good $5-card gainer (and yeah, it's non-terminal and does other good things), but it costs $5 itself, not $3. At the very least Importer is strictly way better than Feast, right? Feast trashes itself as a penalty, and costs more. Importer can be used again and again, and you can buy it before the first shuffle.

Feast gains the $5 card on the turn you play it, Importer only gains the card one turn later, so it's not strictly better than Feast. Besides, Feast has been removed as it is/was a very weak card. It could have easily cost $3 (allowing a TR/Feast opening  :D) and would still have been weak at that price point.
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Jeebus

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2022, 01:11:21 pm »
+1

Feast was not removed because it was weak. There are several "existing" cards that are weaker. Duchess for instance, which was not removed. Feast was removed because it was not interesting, according to Donald.

BraydonM

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2022, 04:08:00 pm »
+1

Family of Inventors seems like it would be a bit of a gamble, since it benefits your opponent just as much as yourself. That's one that's gonna be really tricky to play!
The thing I like most about it is that it works like an opposite version of tax. This can speed up the second player a lot if the first player uses their token first shuffle as opposed to tax which helps even things out by slowing down the first player. It does seem like it could be an issue with 2-5 splits though where you may be able to get a 6 but your opponent still can’t. T1 captain anyone?

(Also I’d they make a 5 cheaper your captain can now play that twice, so it can be a total blow out.)
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Hockey Mask

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2022, 04:09:33 pm »
+1

The artwork for Gang of Pickpockets is…interesting.

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2022, 04:21:57 pm »
0

I don't understand the power level of Importer; isn't it just way too good? Vampire is already a very good $5-card gainer (and yeah, it's non-terminal and does other good things), but it costs $5 itself, not $3. At the very least Importer is strictly way better than Feast, right? Feast trashes itself as a penalty, and costs more. Importer can be used again and again, and you can buy it before the first shuffle.

If you open with it, it makes an enormous difference whether you play it on turn 3 or turn 4.
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trivialknot

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2022, 04:49:47 pm »
+2

At last, I am here to speculate on the power & implications of the final previews.  I don't play online so I haven't tested any of these.

So, gaining a $5 cost is good, but Importer seems very likely to delay the gain for a shuffle, while skipping a shuffle itself.  I think this works for $5 cards that you want to eventually have in your deck but don't need immediately.  Like, I don't know, Groundskeeper.  Overall I think this is a weak card.

Courier reminds me of how hard it is to trigger Swashbuckler or Settlers.  It turns out that your discard pile is just empty like half the time.  And what if the top card of your deck isn't an action, then Courier is terminal!  In the best case, you have a sloggy deck that doesn't shuffle very often, or maybe you have a synergy like Mill.  Quite weak.

Royal Galley has tricked you all by reminding you of Throne Room.  Instead it reminds me of Caravan or Ghost Town.  This turn, it draws a card and lets you play an action, effectively +1 card +1 action.  Next turn, it's effectively +1 card +1 action again, but the extra card & action are spent on the same card you played the previous turn.  And it requires collision with a non-duration action.  I think this is a lot weaker than Throne Room, despite the extra draw.

Note, though I judge these cards to be weak, I very much like weak cards.  They pose challenges.

I really like Family of Inventors, but since its effects affect all players I think it may not be very strong.  You get access to the benefit one turn before your opponent, that's something.  Gives 2nd player an advantage in the first shuffle.  Otherwise, it relies on some asymmetry in strategies.  One neat move is to put them on Wizards, preventing your opponent from remodeling Liches into Province+Duchy.

Among the previews, I really like the split piles, and look forward to seeing the last two.  Split piles were low key my favorite mechanic from Empires, and these ones seem even more dynamic.
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mxdata

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2022, 05:36:44 pm »
0

At last, I am here to speculate on the power & implications of the final previews.  I don't play online so I haven't tested any of these.

So, gaining a $5 cost is good, but Importer seems very likely to delay the gain for a shuffle, while skipping a shuffle itself.  I think this works for $5 cards that you want to eventually have in your deck but don't need immediately.  Like, I don't know, Groundskeeper.  Overall I think this is a weak card.

Courier reminds me of how hard it is to trigger Swashbuckler or Settlers.  It turns out that your discard pile is just empty like half the time.  And what if the top card of your deck isn't an action, then Courier is terminal!  In the best case, you have a sloggy deck that doesn't shuffle very often, or maybe you have a synergy like Mill.  Quite weak.

Royal Galley has tricked you all by reminding you of Throne Room.  Instead it reminds me of Caravan or Ghost Town.  This turn, it draws a card and lets you play an action, effectively +1 card +1 action.  Next turn, it's effectively +1 card +1 action again, but the extra card & action are spent on the same card you played the previous turn.  And it requires collision with a non-duration action.  I think this is a lot weaker than Throne Room, despite the extra draw.

Note, though I judge these cards to be weak, I very much like weak cards.  They pose challenges.

I really like Family of Inventors, but since its effects affect all players I think it may not be very strong.  You get access to the benefit one turn before your opponent, that's something.  Gives 2nd player an advantage in the first shuffle.  Otherwise, it relies on some asymmetry in strategies.  One neat move is to put them on Wizards, preventing your opponent from remodeling Liches into Province+Duchy.

Among the previews, I really like the split piles, and look forward to seeing the last two.  Split piles were low key my favorite mechanic from Empires, and these ones seem even more dynamic.

Remodeling a Lich to Province + Duchy only works if there's a Duchy in the trash, which doesn't happen very often
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vidicate

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2022, 05:42:05 pm »
+2

You replied to the wrong trivialknot comment  :D   Oh never mind; I didn’t realize they said the same thing again as in Preview 4.

Anyway, no comment on Gang of Pickpockets, trivialknot? I enjoy reading the assessments, btw.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 05:49:57 pm by vidicate »
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trivialknot

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2022, 06:43:22 pm »
0

D’oh, I just forgot.  Later, when I have time.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2022, 06:59:29 pm »
0

Aside from Ruined Library, is Royal Galley the first straight-up example of a terminal with +1 Card?

Plenty of other cards can end up having that effect on a particular play --- Pawn, Ironworks, Salvager, Watchtower, Bard, any non-drawing terminal with Pathfinding --- but I can't think of any previous card that just always does it (again, excluding the intentional junk card).

Not that it needs a name, but what would you call this effect? Calling it terminal draw seems wrong, since "draw" is usually reserved for effects that actually increase your hand size. Is it a terminal cantrip? Terminal self-replacer? Terminal handsize-maintainer? Nontrip? Untrip? Can'ttrip?


EDIT: Eh, I guess it's not really a terminal since it gives you a fake +1 Action. I guess mostly never mind, but I'm not deleting the post.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 07:11:34 pm by chipperMDW »
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MiX

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2022, 07:02:12 pm »
+2

Royal Galley isn't a terminal.
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mxdata

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2022, 08:33:53 pm »
0

Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!
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Willvon

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2022, 08:37:38 pm »
+1

Thank you, Donald, for another expansion of what looks to be fun cards and new mechanisms. Our friends and my wife and I are eagerly looking forward to exploring these new cards.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2022, 08:47:34 pm »
0

Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!

I wouldn’t think so; being forced to trash the worst card out of your starting hand? More often than not it would help rather than hurt you.
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BraydonM

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2022, 09:53:45 pm »
+1

Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!

I wouldn’t think so; being forced to trash the worst card out of your starting hand? More often than not it would help rather than hurt you.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2022, 11:59:01 pm »
0

The artwork for Gang of Pickpockets is…interesting.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2022, 12:00:48 am »
0

Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!

I think you are forgetting that any opponent cards trashed during possession are merely set aside not trashed.

It took me like a year of playing to notice this.  Maybe 2.
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mxdata

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2022, 12:18:39 am »
+2

Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!

I think you are forgetting that any opponent cards trashed during possession are merely set aside not trashed.

It took me like a year of playing to notice this.  Maybe 2.

During the Possession turn, yes. But not on their regular turn, when the duration effect kicks in
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2022, 12:19:59 am »
+2

If you have an empty deck and several cards in your discard pile, do you reshuffle so you can discard the top card of your deck.

If so, I really think the deck discarding should have been optional.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2022, 12:23:30 am »
0

If you have an empty deck and several cards in your discard pile, do you reshuffle so you can discard the top card of your deck.

Yes, you do.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2022, 01:24:11 am »
+3

If you have an empty deck and several cards in your discard pile, do you reshuffle so you can discard the top card of your deck.

If so, I really think the deck discarding should have been optional.

Yes, you do, anytime you need the top card of your deck for anything and it’s empty. Sure it would suck in that case but no more so than playing Courier while your discard pile is empty.
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mxdata

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2022, 02:22:24 am »
+3

It's interesting that this expansion continues to expand on ways to play Actions and Treasures outside of their normal phases. We have Courier and Herb Gatherer which can play Treasure cards during your Action phase, and City-state allowing you to play an Action card during your Buy phase (or even your Night phase)
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