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Donald X.

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Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« on: March 04, 2022, 03:00:08 am »
+18

There are no more themes, but lots more cards. The set has 400 cards total, with 6 split piles, 25 regular kingdom card piles, and 23 Allies. 25*11+6*17+23 = 400, and now you know that the only Victory cards are in split piles. So anyway, here are some more cards.



Importer means, you start with 5 Favors, but can't get any more (unless there's another Liaison in the game, obv.). And it gains $5's, slowly. Courier is the Peddler version of Mountain Village, and discards a card to help itself out. Royal Galley plays a card both this turn and next turn; it makes anything else into a Duration.



And two more Allies for good measure. Family of Inventors lowers costs for everyone; fooshing may occur. Gang of Pickpockets is that rare thing, the game attacking the players. You can keep them at bay, or just give in.

Cards will stay playable at https://dominion.games/ over the weekend. Then they will be gone until... Wednesday, when they'll be available both there and in the Temple Gates Games version on Steam. We expect the physical version to follow at around the same time, but this is much harder to nail down, it depends on lots of different trucks and where you live and stuff. It will be around then though.

And I'll return with Seaside 2E previews around... late April? It's a little hard to pin down just yet.
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Davio

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2022, 03:18:21 am »
+3

I guess Royal Galley setting aside the card means the set-aside card no longer counts for things like Horn of Plenty and Peddler, but it does count for cards like Conspirator.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2022, 03:24:59 am »
+9

>inb4 someone is going to confuse Courier and Courtier
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2022, 03:29:17 am »
+17

If the Gang of Pickpockets is your ally, I'd hate to see your enemies.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2022, 03:36:22 am »
+7

Man, I remember when Royal Galley was an outtake from Seaside that was "just so awful". Who knew that all it'd take to make it non-awful was a +1 Card?
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2022, 06:24:37 am »
0

Isn't Royal Galley just going to be bonkers strong? Looks stronger to me than throne room and probably stronger than any throne room variant for 4$. (Edge case: ghost, whose cost is literally 4$ but not 4$ in any other way.)

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2022, 06:30:09 am »
+1

I have just encountered the possibly worst combo of the set: Student + Importer + City-state. More first-player advantage than you'll ever need.
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Hockey Mask

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2022, 06:59:45 am »
+2

The artwork for Gang of Pickpockets is…interesting.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2022, 07:17:27 am »
+1

Isn't Royal Galley just going to be bonkers strong? Looks stronger to me than throne room and probably stronger than any throne room variant for 4$. (Edge case: ghost, whose cost is literally 4$ but not 4$ in any other way.)
The Duration aspect is significant and I don't see that Royal Galley is automatically better or worse than Throne Room. For example, if I can draw my entire deck, I certainly prefer TR by a huge margin. If there are good Durations, I certainly prefer to be able to throne them.
Also, you can play Throne Room on Throne Room, but the same doesn't work with Royal Galleys.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2022, 07:30:45 am »
+1

I was wondering, why does Royal Galley need "if you did," now that we have rule saying that a card can't be played if it's lost track of?

Royal Galley seems to be a Throne Room variant, rules-wise: it plays a card several times. There are two rules for TR variants:

When you play a Duration, leave the TR in play in Clean-up if the Duration is still in play. Doesn't matter here, since Royal Galley can't play Durations.

You can play the card twice, even if the TR loses track of it. (According to the new rule.) It seems this would be possible if Royal Galley didn't have the "if you did" clause. So that must be the answer.

theNarwhal

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2022, 07:32:29 am »
+2

The artwork for Gang of Pickpockets is…interesting.

Jarring, especially next to Family of Inventors.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2022, 09:41:04 am »
+2

Family of Inventors seems like it would be a bit of a gamble, since it benefits your opponent just as much as yourself. That's one that's gonna be really tricky to play!

Importer would be interesting with League of Bankers, giving everyone +$1 every turn from the start, even if there's no other liaisons. In games with that combo, instead of 2/5 and 3/4 openings you'd have 3/6 and 4/5 openings!
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2022, 09:46:11 am »
+4

The artwork for Gang of Pickpockets is…interesting.

Our Gang of Pickpockets
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2022, 09:50:43 am »
+2

>inb4 someone is going to confuse Courier and Courtier

Hey, Harbinger used to be called "Courier", and I argued against "Courier" and "Courtier" being released simultaneously. But there was bound to be a Courier eventually. Only so many words in English.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2022, 09:58:08 am »
+3

I was wondering, why does Royal Galley need "if you did," now that we have rule saying that a card can't be played if it's lost track of?
Royal Galley seems to be a Throne Room variant, rules-wise: it plays a card several times. There are two rules for TR variants:
When you play a Duration, leave the TR in play in Clean-up if the Duration is still in play. Doesn't matter here, since Royal Galley can't play Durations.
You can play the card twice, even if the TR loses track of it. (According to the new rule.) It seems this would be possible if Royal Galley didn't have the "if you did" clause. So that must be the answer.

Correct. Contrary to "usual" Throne Room variants, we want Royal Galley to play the card a second time only if it's where it is supposed to be. Since there don't exist cards that could move the played card after it was set aside, the check after that move is sufficient for that.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2022, 10:33:17 am »
0

Isn't Royal Galley just going to be bonkers strong? Looks stronger to me than throne room and probably stronger than any throne room variant for 4$. (Edge case: ghost, whose cost is literally 4$ but not 4$ in any other way.)
The Duration aspect is significant and I don't see that Royal Galley is automatically better or worse than Throne Room. For example, if I can draw my entire deck, I certainly prefer TR by a huge margin. If there are good Durations, I certainly prefer to be able to throne them.

it's definitely not anywhere near automatically or strictly better, but one card is the difference between a useless cantrip and a lab. Extreme cases aside, the general powerlevel seems extremely high.

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2022, 10:55:04 am »
0

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Erick648

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2022, 10:59:06 am »
+1

Isn't Royal Galley just going to be bonkers strong? Looks stronger to me than throne room and probably stronger than any throne room variant for 4$. (Edge case: ghost, whose cost is literally 4$ but not 4$ in any other way.)
The Duration aspect is significant and I don't see that Royal Galley is automatically better or worse than Throne Room. For example, if I can draw my entire deck, I certainly prefer TR by a huge margin. If there are good Durations, I certainly prefer to be able to throne them.

it's definitely not anywhere near automatically or strictly better, but one card is the difference between a useless cantrip and a lab. Extreme cases aside, the general powerlevel seems extremely high.
Caravan is a Cantrip this turn and a Lab next turn, and is balanced at 4.  Royal Galley is a Cantrip this turn and a Lost City next turn that has a Scheme effect, but prevents you from playing a Duration after it and forces you to use the Scheme effect on the next Action card you play and make that Action card the first card you play next turn (not counting any other start-of-turn plays).  Do the restrictions roughly balance out the extra Action and Scheme effect and keep it balanced at 4?  Probably, but I guess we’ll find out.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 11:00:42 am by Erick648 »
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2022, 11:03:09 am »
+4

Favors are using the coin tokens, right? How does tracking work with Family of Inventors and Trade Route?

Edit: I forgot how Trade Route works. It's been a while with that card.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 11:29:38 am by J Reggie »
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2022, 11:07:40 am »
0

I was wondering, why does Royal Galley need "if you did," now that we have rule saying that a card can't be played if it's lost track of?

Royal Galley seems to be a Throne Room variant, rules-wise: it plays a card several times. There are two rules for TR variants:

When you play a Duration, leave the TR in play in Clean-up if the Duration is still in play. Doesn't matter here, since Royal Galley can't play Durations.

You can play the card twice, even if the TR loses track of it. (According to the new rule.) It seems this would be possible if Royal Galley didn't have the "if you did" clause. So that must be the answer.

Consider Embargo, Madman, Horse. There may be other cards that cannot be set aside (by Royal Galley) after they are played, because they move themselves.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2022, 11:13:13 am »
+3

Favors are using the coin tokens, right? How does tracking work with Family of Inventors and Trade Route?

"non-Victory supply pile" covers it.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2022, 11:14:03 am »
+1

Favors are using the coin tokens, right? How does tracking work with Family of Inventors and Trade Route?
Family of inventors can only be placed on non-victory and trade route only on victory, so you can't get confused
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2022, 11:29:00 am »
0

I don't understand the power level of Importer; isn't it just way too good? Vampire is already a very good $5-card gainer (and yeah, it's non-terminal and does other good things), but it costs $5 itself, not $3. At the very least Importer is strictly way better than Feast, right? Feast trashes itself as a penalty, and costs more. Importer can be used again and again, and you can buy it before the first shuffle.

dpm

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2022, 11:29:44 am »
+4

Are the favor tokens removed before scoring, or can the Family of Inventors cause more cards to cost 2 for Plateau Shepherds?  (I hope it's the latter, that would be pretty bonkers.)

Edit: Never mind, I forgot you can't have more than one Ally.  If you could, though...
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 11:30:49 am by dpm »
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2022, 11:32:51 am »
+1

Isn't Royal Galley just going to be bonkers strong? Looks stronger to me than throne room and probably stronger than any throne room variant for 4$. (Edge case: ghost, whose cost is literally 4$ but not 4$ in any other way.)
The Duration aspect is significant and I don't see that Royal Galley is automatically better or worse than Throne Room. For example, if I can draw my entire deck, I certainly prefer TR by a huge margin. If there are good Durations, I certainly prefer to be able to throne them.

it's definitely not anywhere near automatically or strictly better, but one card is the difference between a useless cantrip and a lab. Extreme cases aside, the general powerlevel seems extremely high.
Caravan is a Cantrip this turn and a Lab next turn, and is balanced at 4.  Royal Galley is a Cantrip this turn and a Lost City next turn that has a Scheme effect, but prevents you from playing a Duration after it and forces you to use the Scheme effect on the next Action card you play and make that Action card the first card you play next turn (not counting any other start-of-turn plays).  Do the restrictions roughly balance out the extra Action and Scheme effect and keep it balanced at 4?  Probably, but I guess we’ll find out.

to be clear I do not expect it to a problem. Balance is thrown around a lot and not super applicable to this game. This is a support card, and it can't go foom like throne room. I envision it to be more like a card you almost always see used, like Spice Merchant, but doesn't feel crazy

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2022, 12:15:39 pm »
+2

Are the favor tokens removed before scoring, or can the Family of Inventors cause more cards to cost 2 for Plateau Shepherds?  (I hope it's the latter, that would be pretty bonkers.)

Edit: Never mind, I forgot you can't have more than one Ally.  If you could, though...

If you *could* combine them, then you could do a really cruel trick if your opponent bought a bunch of $2 cantrips like Pawn by putting a token on that pile, making them worthless for Plateau Shepherds ...
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2022, 12:16:27 pm »
+3

Are the favor tokens removed before scoring, or can the Family of Inventors cause more cards to cost 2 for Plateau Shepherds?  (I hope it's the latter, that would be pretty bonkers.)

Edit: Never mind, I forgot you can't have more than one Ally.  If you could, though...

I went through the same mix of emotions once I realised…
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2022, 12:17:54 pm »
+4

I don't understand the power level of Importer; isn't it just way too good? Vampire is already a very good $5-card gainer (and yeah, it's non-terminal and does other good things), but it costs $5 itself, not $3. At the very least Importer is strictly way better than Feast, right? Feast trashes itself as a penalty, and costs more. Importer can be used again and again, and you can buy it before the first shuffle.
Importer only works every other turn at most. Feast was removed from second edition; it's probably okay to be better than a bad card.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2022, 12:32:51 pm »
0

I don't understand the power level of Importer; isn't it just way too good? Vampire is already a very good $5-card gainer (and yeah, it's non-terminal and does other good things), but it costs $5 itself, not $3. At the very least Importer is strictly way better than Feast, right? Feast trashes itself as a penalty, and costs more. Importer can be used again and again, and you can buy it before the first shuffle.

Feast gains the $5 card on the turn you play it, Importer only gains the card one turn later, so it's not strictly better than Feast. Besides, Feast has been removed as it is/was a very weak card. It could have easily cost $3 (allowing a TR/Feast opening  :D) and would still have been weak at that price point.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2022, 01:11:21 pm »
+1

Feast was not removed because it was weak. There are several "existing" cards that are weaker. Duchess for instance, which was not removed. Feast was removed because it was not interesting, according to Donald.

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2022, 04:08:00 pm »
+1

Family of Inventors seems like it would be a bit of a gamble, since it benefits your opponent just as much as yourself. That's one that's gonna be really tricky to play!
The thing I like most about it is that it works like an opposite version of tax. This can speed up the second player a lot if the first player uses their token first shuffle as opposed to tax which helps even things out by slowing down the first player. It does seem like it could be an issue with 2-5 splits though where you may be able to get a 6 but your opponent still can’t. T1 captain anyone?

(Also I’d they make a 5 cheaper your captain can now play that twice, so it can be a total blow out.)
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2022, 04:09:33 pm »
+1

The artwork for Gang of Pickpockets is…interesting.

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2022, 04:21:57 pm »
0

I don't understand the power level of Importer; isn't it just way too good? Vampire is already a very good $5-card gainer (and yeah, it's non-terminal and does other good things), but it costs $5 itself, not $3. At the very least Importer is strictly way better than Feast, right? Feast trashes itself as a penalty, and costs more. Importer can be used again and again, and you can buy it before the first shuffle.

If you open with it, it makes an enormous difference whether you play it on turn 3 or turn 4.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2022, 04:49:47 pm »
+2

At last, I am here to speculate on the power & implications of the final previews.  I don't play online so I haven't tested any of these.

So, gaining a $5 cost is good, but Importer seems very likely to delay the gain for a shuffle, while skipping a shuffle itself.  I think this works for $5 cards that you want to eventually have in your deck but don't need immediately.  Like, I don't know, Groundskeeper.  Overall I think this is a weak card.

Courier reminds me of how hard it is to trigger Swashbuckler or Settlers.  It turns out that your discard pile is just empty like half the time.  And what if the top card of your deck isn't an action, then Courier is terminal!  In the best case, you have a sloggy deck that doesn't shuffle very often, or maybe you have a synergy like Mill.  Quite weak.

Royal Galley has tricked you all by reminding you of Throne Room.  Instead it reminds me of Caravan or Ghost Town.  This turn, it draws a card and lets you play an action, effectively +1 card +1 action.  Next turn, it's effectively +1 card +1 action again, but the extra card & action are spent on the same card you played the previous turn.  And it requires collision with a non-duration action.  I think this is a lot weaker than Throne Room, despite the extra draw.

Note, though I judge these cards to be weak, I very much like weak cards.  They pose challenges.

I really like Family of Inventors, but since its effects affect all players I think it may not be very strong.  You get access to the benefit one turn before your opponent, that's something.  Gives 2nd player an advantage in the first shuffle.  Otherwise, it relies on some asymmetry in strategies.  One neat move is to put them on Wizards, preventing your opponent from remodeling Liches into Province+Duchy.

Among the previews, I really like the split piles, and look forward to seeing the last two.  Split piles were low key my favorite mechanic from Empires, and these ones seem even more dynamic.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2022, 05:36:44 pm »
0

At last, I am here to speculate on the power & implications of the final previews.  I don't play online so I haven't tested any of these.

So, gaining a $5 cost is good, but Importer seems very likely to delay the gain for a shuffle, while skipping a shuffle itself.  I think this works for $5 cards that you want to eventually have in your deck but don't need immediately.  Like, I don't know, Groundskeeper.  Overall I think this is a weak card.

Courier reminds me of how hard it is to trigger Swashbuckler or Settlers.  It turns out that your discard pile is just empty like half the time.  And what if the top card of your deck isn't an action, then Courier is terminal!  In the best case, you have a sloggy deck that doesn't shuffle very often, or maybe you have a synergy like Mill.  Quite weak.

Royal Galley has tricked you all by reminding you of Throne Room.  Instead it reminds me of Caravan or Ghost Town.  This turn, it draws a card and lets you play an action, effectively +1 card +1 action.  Next turn, it's effectively +1 card +1 action again, but the extra card & action are spent on the same card you played the previous turn.  And it requires collision with a non-duration action.  I think this is a lot weaker than Throne Room, despite the extra draw.

Note, though I judge these cards to be weak, I very much like weak cards.  They pose challenges.

I really like Family of Inventors, but since its effects affect all players I think it may not be very strong.  You get access to the benefit one turn before your opponent, that's something.  Gives 2nd player an advantage in the first shuffle.  Otherwise, it relies on some asymmetry in strategies.  One neat move is to put them on Wizards, preventing your opponent from remodeling Liches into Province+Duchy.

Among the previews, I really like the split piles, and look forward to seeing the last two.  Split piles were low key my favorite mechanic from Empires, and these ones seem even more dynamic.

Remodeling a Lich to Province + Duchy only works if there's a Duchy in the trash, which doesn't happen very often
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2022, 05:42:05 pm »
+2

You replied to the wrong trivialknot comment  :D   Oh never mind; I didn’t realize they said the same thing again as in Preview 4.

Anyway, no comment on Gang of Pickpockets, trivialknot? I enjoy reading the assessments, btw.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 05:49:57 pm by vidicate »
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2022, 06:43:22 pm »
0

D’oh, I just forgot.  Later, when I have time.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2022, 06:59:29 pm »
0

Aside from Ruined Library, is Royal Galley the first straight-up example of a terminal with +1 Card?

Plenty of other cards can end up having that effect on a particular play --- Pawn, Ironworks, Salvager, Watchtower, Bard, any non-drawing terminal with Pathfinding --- but I can't think of any previous card that just always does it (again, excluding the intentional junk card).

Not that it needs a name, but what would you call this effect? Calling it terminal draw seems wrong, since "draw" is usually reserved for effects that actually increase your hand size. Is it a terminal cantrip? Terminal self-replacer? Terminal handsize-maintainer? Nontrip? Untrip? Can'ttrip?


EDIT: Eh, I guess it's not really a terminal since it gives you a fake +1 Action. I guess mostly never mind, but I'm not deleting the post.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 07:11:34 pm by chipperMDW »
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2022, 07:02:12 pm »
+2

Royal Galley isn't a terminal.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2022, 08:33:53 pm »
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Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2022, 08:37:38 pm »
+1

Thank you, Donald, for another expansion of what looks to be fun cards and new mechanisms. Our friends and my wife and I are eagerly looking forward to exploring these new cards.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2022, 08:47:34 pm »
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Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!

I wouldn’t think so; being forced to trash the worst card out of your starting hand? More often than not it would help rather than hurt you.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2022, 09:53:45 pm »
+1

Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!

I wouldn’t think so; being forced to trash the worst card out of your starting hand? More often than not it would help rather than hurt you.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2022, 11:59:01 pm »
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The artwork for Gang of Pickpockets is…interesting.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2022, 12:00:48 am »
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Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!

I think you are forgetting that any opponent cards trashed during possession are merely set aside not trashed.

It took me like a year of playing to notice this.  Maybe 2.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2022, 12:18:39 am »
+2

Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!

I think you are forgetting that any opponent cards trashed during possession are merely set aside not trashed.

It took me like a year of playing to notice this.  Maybe 2.

During the Possession turn, yes. But not on their regular turn, when the duration effect kicks in
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2022, 12:19:59 am »
+2

If you have an empty deck and several cards in your discard pile, do you reshuffle so you can discard the top card of your deck.

If so, I really think the deck discarding should have been optional.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2022, 12:23:30 am »
0

If you have an empty deck and several cards in your discard pile, do you reshuffle so you can discard the top card of your deck.

Yes, you do.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2022, 01:24:11 am »
+3

If you have an empty deck and several cards in your discard pile, do you reshuffle so you can discard the top card of your deck.

If so, I really think the deck discarding should have been optional.

Yes, you do, anytime you need the top card of your deck for anything and it’s empty. Sure it would suck in that case but no more so than playing Courier while your discard pile is empty.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2022, 02:22:24 am »
+3

It's interesting that this expansion continues to expand on ways to play Actions and Treasures outside of their normal phases. We have Courier and Herb Gatherer which can play Treasure cards during your Action phase, and City-state allowing you to play an Action card during your Buy phase (or even your Night phase)
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2022, 04:29:53 am »
+2

It's interesting that this expansion continues to expand on ways to play Actions and Treasures outside of their normal phases. We have Courier and Herb Gatherer which can play Treasure cards during your Action phase, and City-state allowing you to play an Action card during your Buy phase (or even your Night phase)

Even your Cleanup phase! (Improve)
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2022, 01:37:11 pm »
+1

You replied to the wrong trivialknot comment  :D   Oh never mind; I didn’t realize they said the same thing again as in Preview 4.

Anyway, no comment on Gang of Pickpockets, trivialknot? I enjoy reading the assessments, btw.
If you like my assessments, you should look out for Dominion Youtubers, who will probably make hot take videos next week (if they haven't done so already).

Okay, Gang of Pickpockets.  On first glance, avoiding a discard down to 4 seems to be of equivalent value to making your opponent discard down to 4.  So that would make Underling like Urchin without Mercenary, which doesn't exactly sound strong.  However, I think the key thing is that you get to see your hand before spending the favor.  So you're not just avoiding any discard, you're avoiding a good discard.  But good opportunities probably don't come all that often, so I suspect that getting favors has diminishing returns when this ally is in play.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2022, 03:33:21 pm »
+2

Feast was not removed because it was weak. There are several "existing" cards that are weaker. Duchess for instance, which was not removed. Feast was removed because it was not interesting, according to Donald.

But like practically all removed cards, it was also very weak. It was ranked at #71 out of 73 $4 cards in the last Qvist ranking before its removal, surpassing only Thief and Scout, which were also removed.

Obviously Duchess couldn't be removed yet because it is from Hinterlands. But I bet it will be removed if Donald ever makes a "2nd edition" of Hinterlands.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2022, 09:07:05 pm »
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Royal Galley has tricked you all by reminding you of Throne Room.  Instead it reminds me of Caravan or Ghost Town.  This turn, it draws a card and lets you play an action, effectively +1 card +1 action.  Next turn, it's effectively +1 card +1 action again, but the extra card & action are spent on the same card you played the previous turn.

For the "next turn" assessment, isn't it more like playing a +2 cards +2 actions card (lost city)? Since you don't have to spend any cards/actions that turn to play the other card.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2022, 09:19:24 pm »
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Also, don't forget that Royal Galley is letting you pick a specific card to start next turn with. It's not just a free play from your initial 5-card hand. Starting your turn with a free Smithy or two is great! In that respect, it's more similar to a one-time Prince that also works on $5+ cards.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2022, 04:28:01 am »
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Also, don't forget that Royal Galley is letting you pick a specific card to start next turn with. It's not just a free play from your initial 5-card hand. Starting your turn with a free Smithy or two is great! In that respect, it's more similar to a one-time Prince that also works on $5+ cards.
I find that it works great with semi-engines, these are engines that don't really generate huge turns where you always draw your entire deck, but rather a string of medium turns where you play a bunch of cards until you run out of gas.
These types of engines love consistency, they don't aim to hit double Province turns, but rather a single Province each turn for as many turns as possible.

Royal Galley is a great card for those kinds of games.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2022, 10:30:42 am »
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Played several games with Royal Galley last night against the bot (so it let me get all 10 of them). My impression is that it turns those semi-engines into a full fledged super-consistent engine. It really helps any sort of Village,Smithy,Workshop type of game.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2022, 11:35:43 am »
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Played several games with Royal Galley last night against the bot (so it let me get all 10 of them). My impression is that it turns those semi-engines into a full fledged super-consistent engine. It really helps any sort of Village,Smithy,Workshop type of game.
It's also great with cards which don't have cumulative effects like Militia (other than its $2).
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2022, 02:14:31 pm »
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Royal Galley has tricked you all by reminding you of Throne Room.  Instead it reminds me of Caravan or Ghost Town.  This turn, it draws a card and lets you play an action, effectively +1 card +1 action.  Next turn, it's effectively +1 card +1 action again, but the extra card & action are spent on the same card you played the previous turn.

For the "next turn" assessment, isn't it more like playing a +2 cards +2 actions card (lost city)? Since you don't have to spend any cards/actions that turn to play the other card.
Yeah, that's what I meant.  Royal Galley is like Caravan + Ghost Town.  In the context of a deck that draws and plays everything each turn, a single Royal Galley nets you 1 card and 1 action every 2 turns.  Additionally, it helps reliability by playing a card of your choice at the start of your turn.  That's pretty good.

However, it's a different beast from Throne Room.  When you draw your deck every turn, Throne Room is effectively a copy of another action in your deck, plus an extra action.  For example, if I have a Witch and a Throne Room, I can curse twice per turn.  If I have a Witch and Royal Galley, I draw one more card every 2 turns compared to Throne Room, but I can only curse once per turn.  I think Throne Room is a lot stronger in terms of raw power, but is not as good for reliability.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2022, 02:31:25 pm »
0

Isn't Royal Galley just going to be bonkers strong? Looks stronger to me than throne room and probably stronger than any throne room variant for 4$. (Edge case: ghost, whose cost is literally 4$ but not 4$ in any other way.)
The Duration aspect is significant and I don't see that Royal Galley is automatically better or worse than Throne Room. For example, if I can draw my entire deck, I certainly prefer TR by a huge margin. If there are good Durations, I certainly prefer to be able to throne them.

nah.  Silver spawn is right on this.  This card is bonkers AF.  WAAAY OP.  It should cost 5.  I might buy it at 6 in some decks.  The ability to play the card twice on back to back hands is a super enabler.  That you can play a witch on b2b hands is crazy insane.  2 curse and a +2 cards on the next hand, and extra actions if the card is a cantrip.  I've had many games where I'd be playing 2 of these a turn and each one is playing a witch or lab or something.  It's a crazy good card.  It's soooooooooooo much better than throne room. A throne room plays it once that hand.  This plays it once that hand (a la throne room) and then again on the next hand too! Though I can tell you from experience a Royal Galley playing a Throne room is super duper bonkers inasne.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2022, 02:34:37 pm »
0

Isn't Royal Galley just going to be bonkers strong? Looks stronger to me than throne room and probably stronger than any throne room variant for 4$. (Edge case: ghost, whose cost is literally 4$ but not 4$ in any other way.)
The Duration aspect is significant and I don't see that Royal Galley is automatically better or worse than Throne Room. For example, if I can draw my entire deck, I certainly prefer TR by a huge margin. If there are good Durations, I certainly prefer to be able to throne them.

it's definitely not anywhere near automatically or strictly better, but one card is the difference between a useless cantrip and a lab. Extreme cases aside, the general powerlevel seems extremely high.

disagree wholeheartedly, and by that I completely agree with you, in your original assessment.  It quite literally does everything throne room does and then some.  Which then helps your later hands become more productive, whereas Throne rooms weakness is when it gets a dead hand with nothing to play.  This one also draws another card/target for the Royal Galley to hit on.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2022, 02:43:49 pm »
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The artwork for Gang of Pickpockets is…interesting.

Our Gang of Pickpockets

Why are they all white?  Even the racist AF OG Our Gang had one black kid even if it was to mock and denigrate him...
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2022, 02:49:08 pm »
0

At last, I am here to speculate on the power & implications of the final previews.  I don't play online so I haven't tested any of these.

So, gaining a $5 cost is good, but Importer seems very likely to delay the gain for a shuffle, while skipping a shuffle itself.  I think this works for $5 cards that you want to eventually have in your deck but don't need immediately.  Like, I don't know, Groundskeeper.  Overall I think this is a weak card.

Courier reminds me of how hard it is to trigger Swashbuckler or Settlers.  It turns out that your discard pile is just empty like half the time.  And what if the top card of your deck isn't an action, then Courier is terminal!  In the best case, you have a sloggy deck that doesn't shuffle very often, or maybe you have a synergy like Mill.  Quite weak.

Royal Galley has tricked you all by reminding you of Throne Room.  Instead it reminds me of Caravan or Ghost Town.  This turn, it draws a card and lets you play an action, effectively +1 card +1 action.  Next turn, it's effectively +1 card +1 action again, but the extra card & action are spent on the same card you played the previous turn.  And it requires collision with a non-duration action.  I think this is a lot weaker than Throne Room, despite the extra draw.

Note, though I judge these cards to be weak, I very much like weak cards.  They pose challenges.

I really like Family of Inventors, but since its effects affect all players I think it may not be very strong.  You get access to the benefit one turn before your opponent, that's something.  Gives 2nd player an advantage in the first shuffle.  Otherwise, it relies on some asymmetry in strategies.  One neat move is to put them on Wizards, preventing your opponent from remodeling Liches into Province+Duchy.

Among the previews, I really like the split piles, and look forward to seeing the last two.  Split piles were low key my favorite mechanic from Empires, and these ones seem even more dynamic.
  Totally agree on courier and Importer.    Courier totally has the swashbuckler blues though in the right deck it can really shine.  In some games I would be discarding acntrips so that I could then get whatever dicard benefit and then getting the action back immediately through courier.  So that was neat.  But all in all i think its weak.

And obviously to anyone reading this that i disagree on the Royal Galley/Throne Room debate. 
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2022, 02:58:03 pm »
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Royal Galley + any mandatory trasher would be a dangerous combination in a game with Possession!

I think you are forgetting that any opponent cards trashed during possession are merely set aside not trashed.

It took me like a year of playing to notice this.  Maybe 2.

ooh. I didn't realize the Royal Gallery would stay with them for the next turn
During the Possession turn, yes. But not on their regular turn, when the duration effect kicks in

Oof yeah.  Mst've been stoned.  Forgot the duration aspect of that.

In that case the "exactly more than one"  TFB cards like upgrade could be brutal depending on whats available.  a mandatory upgrade with only province/gold/overlord/farmland hand would be nasty.  So would something that requires trashing but without real benefit like Trade route early or student.

Just realized another hilarious aspect.  You could toss rats into your opponents deck.
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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2022, 06:05:34 am »
0

Favors are using the coin tokens, right? How does tracking work with Family of Inventors and Trade Route?

"non-Victory supply pile" covers it.

But now there is Garrison. I assume the answer is just that you keep them in separate places on the card, like with Sinister Plot.

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Re: Allies Preview 5: More Cards
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2022, 09:21:06 am »
+3

Favors are using the coin tokens, right? How does tracking work with Family of Inventors and Trade Route?

"non-Victory supply pile" covers it.

But now there is Garrison. I assume the answer is just that you keep them in separate places on the card, like with Sinister Plot.

Garrison doesn't put the token on a Supply pile though
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