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Author Topic: Allies Preview 2: Split piles  (Read 22106 times)

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Donald X.

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Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« on: March 01, 2022, 03:00:08 am »
+25

Allies 2: Split Piles

Split piles are back! Only this time they rotate. Also they have four different cards in them. Let's see one to better talk about this. It's: Augurs.



So the pile starts with 4 copies of Herb Gatherer, then 4 copies of Acolyte, then 4 copies of Sorceress, then 4 copies of Sibyl. And you can only buy/gain the top card. But, the first card lets you "rotate" the pile. This puts all copies of whatever's on top onto the bottom. If the top has three Herb Gatherers and then Acolytes etc., rotating it puts all three Herb Gatherers on the bottom. If it was just one Herb Gatherer and then Acolytes, that one Herb Gatherer goes on the bottom. If the pile has different cards left in it, then rotating it will uncover a different one. It gets you through the pile.

So Herb Gatherer, it does this rotation trick, and Chancellors (what's that?), and also it gets a Treasure from your discard pile into play. Acolyte can turn stuff into Gold, but also can turn itself into whatever's on top of the Augurs pile - another Acolyte, or a better card (or hey, sometimes an Herb Gatherer). Sorceress is a guessing game, and if you're right you Curse the other players. And Sibyl lets you win that guessing game.

Here's another pile: Odysseys.



As before, the first card can rotate the pile. Old Map does a little filtering. Voyage is an extra turn with a tricky limitation: you only get to play 3 cards, and that includes Treasures. Although things that play cards other than from your hand get around this a little (e.g. Golem). Sunken Treasure can get you stuff you don't have yet, and Distant Shore is somehow a Lab that gains Estates.

What do the randomizers even look like for these? I'm glad you asked.



Split piles are a lot to process, so here's one normal pile too.



Cards turn into other cards and leap into the fray. Buy it even if you don't know what it will possibly do for you; you won't regret it. This can of course mess up the order of split piles.

To spice up the Liaisons from yesterday, here are two more Allies.



So that's an Armory and an Innovation.

As before, cards can be tried out almost immediately at https://dominion.games/.

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Davio

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2022, 03:30:40 am »
+2

I like how the split piles tell a little story, just like the travellers.
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AJD

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2022, 03:31:00 am »
+6

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?
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Geronimoo

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2022, 03:37:29 am »
+1

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?
If Throne Room is your 3rd played card from your hand you won't be able to play another card from your hand. If Throne Room is the 2nd card you can play your next card twice because the 4th action is not played from your hand... I think
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faust

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2022, 03:47:30 am »
+5

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?
If Throne Room is your 3rd played card from your hand you won't be able to play another card from your hand. If Throne Room is the 2nd card you can play your next card twice because the 4th action is not played from your hand... I think
Feels like there's a bunch of rules questions that can be asked here. For instance: If I gain an Action with Artisan and use City-State to play it, have I played it from my hand?
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BraydonM

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2022, 04:32:49 am »
0

How does Sunken Treasure work with Black Market? Seems like you would be able to gain any action on it?


I like these allies a lot. They’re interesting and seem to be in a nice balanced place where they don’t take over like Plateau Shepherd and Bauble or League of Bankers. Definitely some possibilities for city state to do a huge combo. You get that with bridge troll and enough favors you might empty the trolls in a turn.

Not that I don’t enjoy Plateau Shepherds.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 04:33:51 am by BraydonM »
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AJD

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2022, 04:38:03 am »
+5

How does Sunken Treasure work with Black Market? Seems like you would be able to gain any action on it?

Unless specified, an instruction to gain a card always means from the supply.
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pst

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2022, 05:08:00 am »
0

Woo-hoo, the Chancellor is back, now presumably even more powerful!
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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2022, 05:59:02 am »
0

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?
If Throne Room is your 3rd played card from your hand you won't be able to play another card from your hand. If Throne Room is the 2nd card you can play your next card twice because the 4th action is not played from your hand... I think
Feels like there's a bunch of rules questions that can be asked here. For instance: If I gain an Action with Artisan and use City-State to play it, have I played it from my hand?

And I think those two scenarios are equivalent. If playing a card from Throne Room doesn't count for Voyage, then Artican + City-State shouldn't count either. It all depends on what "play from your hand" means. Does it refer to only those times when you use an Action to play a card from your hand, or any time you end up playing a card from your hand? Presumably the latter.

infangthief

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2022, 06:03:59 am »
0

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?
If Throne Room is your 3rd played card from your hand you won't be able to play another card from your hand. If Throne Room is the 2nd card you can play your next card twice because the 4th action is not played from your hand... I think
Feels like there's a bunch of rules questions that can be asked here. For instance: If I gain an Action with Artisan and use City-State to play it, have I played it from my hand?

And I think those two scenarios are equivalent. If playing a card from Throne Room doesn't count for Voyage, then Artican + City-State shouldn't count either. It all depends on what "play from your hand" means. Does it refer to only those times when you use an Action to play a card from your hand, or any time you end up playing a card from your hand? Presumably the latter.

I also assume the latter. In fact, I just played a game with Throne Room and Voyage and I didn't even think of testing it out it seemed obvious enough.

You don't get to do much on a Voyage turn, can't even play much treasure. But it is nice to play Sunken Treasure.

EDIT: oh, I kind of missed what was being asked here. On a Voyage turn I played Throne Room - Market - Copper and had 3 to spend (and no option to play another Copper afterwards), that all seemed to work as expected.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 06:23:18 am by infangthief »
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BraydonM

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2022, 06:04:20 am »
+3

If Herb Gatherer is the only +buy and your opponent doesn’t get one quickly you can grab it and rotate it hiding the +buy under a pile of other cards.

Even though the first cards are decent it still may be a trap buying a rotate card to go for a card under it because you’re spending that money but the cards rotating makes the better card available to your opponent, without requiring that investment.
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Jeebus

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2022, 06:10:25 am »
0

So you should be able to use City-State to play the same card twice (using 4 Favors). First it plays it from your discard pile (usually), then it plays it from play. That means it can work as a Throne Room variant without actually being one. Thinking about it wrong.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 06:44:04 am by Jeebus »
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m_knox

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2022, 06:14:55 am »
+3

Regarding the illustrations:

Either the Augurs are miscredited, or the Augurs randomizer is.

All Augurs have Hans Krill, but the randomizer has Julien Delval.
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spineflu

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2022, 06:28:19 am »
0

So you should be able to use City-State to play the same card twice (using 4 Favors). First it plays it from your discard pile (usually), then it plays it from play. That means it can work as a Throne Room variant without actually being one.

i thought the gist of allies was "once at the trigger point unless it specifies 'repeat as desired' like cave dwellers"; is this incorrect?
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Jeebus

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2022, 06:45:21 am »
+1

So you should be able to use City-State to play the same card twice (using 4 Favors). First it plays it from your discard pile (usually), then it plays it from play. That means it can work as a Throne Room variant without actually being one.

i thought the gist of allies was "once at the trigger point unless it specifies 'repeat as desired' like cave dwellers"; is this incorrect?

Yeah, I was wrong. I forgot that an ability only works once.

ossiangrr

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2022, 08:58:06 am »
+1

Of course the ultimate question: How are people going to handle the new split-pile type with Black Market?  ;D
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AJD

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2022, 09:35:15 am »
0

Of course the ultimate question: How are people going to handle the new split-pile type with Black Market?  ;D

Same way as the existing split-pile cards, I assume.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2022, 10:10:14 am »
+3

Really curious how much weaker Old Map is compared to Fugitive. I assume it's enough of a difference that the slightly awkward wording was actually needed.
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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2022, 10:13:45 am »
+3

is there a subtheme with U / R sifting this time?

and incidentally here's where we're at on the previews countdown, i think. i got the number of boxes for rotate wrong yesterday - shout out to hsypsx in the discord for catching that. Also unless we're Done With Cantrips i think i misunderstood the "+1 Card and +1 Action" wordcount part of the preview, which seems to portend Wild Stuff is coming.


click to enlarge.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2022, 10:14:41 am »
+6

Woo-hoo, the Chancellor is back, now presumably even more powerful!

No way. Chancellor gave +. Since you start the game with 7 Coppers and 0 other treasures, Herb Gatherer gives only +. If anything, the existence of Herb Gatherer just shows that Donald removed Chancellor from second edition because it was far too powerful; now we finally have a balanced/nerfed version that won't dominate games.
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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2022, 10:33:36 am »
+1

Yeah, I took "+1 card and +1 action" to mean literally those words, not "+1 card" and "+1 action".

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2022, 10:49:13 am »
+2

If anything, the existence of Herb Gatherer just shows that Donald removed Chancellor from second edition because it was far too powerful; now we finally have a balanced/nerfed version that won't dominate games.

We have had one since Vassal.
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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2022, 10:56:04 am »
+5

Woo-hoo, the Chancellor is back, now presumably even more powerful!
I think Donald X. got inspired by Star Wars Episode 9.
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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2022, 11:44:37 am »
+1

Woo-hoo, the Chancellor is back, now presumably even more powerful!

you mean this card?

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Donald X.

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Re: Allies Preview 2: Split piles
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2022, 12:07:31 pm »
+3

Regarding the illustrations:

Either the Augurs are miscredited, or the Augurs randomizer is.

All Augurs have Hans Krill, but the randomizer has Julien Delval.

Thanks; Hans Krill is correct. One day we will fix that.
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