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[Donald X.]

I was working on lots of new games in 2019. And going to restaurants, and walking down the sidewalk within 6 feet of strangers, without a care in the world. The pandemic hit and everything stopped. It turns out I cannot get much work done on games that are never played. Then I started playing Dominion with Dame Natalie in 2020, and well now there's an expansion coming out. It's a lesson for us all. Allies feels to me like "more Dominion" more than most sets; there are a lot of cards that could go in any set. Part of that is how it came to be; I just made a bunch of cards. But it does have some mechanics, and I'm leading with Allies themselves.

Allies are landscape cards that tell you how a Favor token can be used. Favor tokens are produced by Liaisons. In games with a Liaison, you put out a single Ally (even with multiple Liaisons), and well that's that, it tells you what the token does. There are 23 Allies, in their own separate deck, which is like having 23 new kinds of tokens. Only we use coin tokens for all of them, and put them on a mat. Here are some Liaisons, out of the 9 total in the set:



Underling is as straightforward as they get; it's a cantrip that gives you a Favor token. If you want a bunch of Favor tokens, Underling is there for you. Bauble is the Treasure version of Pawn you never knew you wanted. The last option is that whole bit about getting to topdeck cards; you can pick any two options and that's one of them. And one of them is a Favor. And then Broker is the combination Apprentice / Salvager / other things that you never knew you wanted. It can make a lot of Favors at once when you want that.

Well that's all well and good, but what are the Allies like? Here are five of them:



So let's say the game has Underling in it. You turn over an Ally, it's Cave Dwellers. This game, you can get Favors with Underlings, and you can use them to discard/draw repeatedly at the start of your turn. That's all there is to it. No wait, there's one more thing: you start the game with a Favor token. So if you never get a Liaison, you still get to do a little something. Except with Allies that cost more than one Favor to do anything.

Cave Dwellers lets you filter; Coastal Haven saves cards for next turn; Peaceful Cult trashes. Those are all pretty simple. Plateau Shepherds is like a Landmark, it lets you score for having a bunch of $2's, but you need to pair them with Favors. And then League of Bankers doesn't let you spend Favors; you just amass them, and get +$ each turn based on how many you have.

Cards will be playable online at dominion.games (maybe not exactly when this is posted, but soon afterwards; take your time to savor these words and it will all work out), in the same way we've done for the last few expansions. Three kingdom cards, that's not enough, let's have two more.



Hunter is a Lab that gets you a varying number of cards, based on type. Skirmisher Militias people, but only when more attacks are coming in. Which of course can just be more Skirmishers, or some other attack.

So there's a preview, and there will be more previews (with cards playable online) through Friday.

[mxdata]

Out of curiosity, why did you make the limit of one Ally a hard rule rather than recommendation? It's not a complaint (indeed, I feel like the limit of one way and two total landscapes should also have been hard limits)

Initial thoughts on these: Favors certainly add a new dimension to the game! I just played a game with Plateau Shepherd + Underling + Pawn and Moat, and that was certainly an interesting one, having Pawn and Moat be effectively worth 2 VP! In retrospect, I should've bought more Underlings, because I ended up with more total $2 cards than Favors. That's something to keep in mind when playing with that Ally. If there's no other $2 cards, it makes Estate-trashing considerably less attractive, since in that scenario they're effectively Duchies!

Hunter wouldn't work very well with Night cards (other than Werewolf, of course). I'm assuming that with dual-type cards, you can use a card for either of its types? E.g., if one of the revealed cards is a Mill, I assume you could put it into your hand as either an Action card (and put another Victory card into your hand) or as a Victory card (and put another Action card into your hand)? And if you revealed two Mills, you could put one in your hand as an Action card and the other as a Victory card?

[-Stef-]

I'm assuming that with dual-type cards, you can use a card for either of its types? E.g., if one of the revealed cards is a Mill, I assume you could put it into your hand as either an Action card (and put another Victory card into your hand) or as a Victory card (and put another Action card into your hand)? And if you revealed two Mills, you could put one in your hand as an Action card and the other as a Victory card?

Yes, correct. It gets simpler in your mind if you do it one by one instead of all at once. The first thing you do is put an Action in hand. Any Action Card will do, so a Mill or a Crown is just as valid as a Village. Then a Treasure, and finally a Victory card.

[railmc]

Just played and the new mechanic is sooo much fun. Thanks a lot!

Can't wait to play all of them

[mxdata]

League of Bankers can really snowball! Especially in games with +buy, it can get insane! The one game I've played with it, I was getting +$10 from it by the end of the game!

[Winston]

yeeeeah preview season....
I like the design of the allies. Coastal Haven i love you!

I would be interested in why Hunter doens't consider Night cards.
I know there are not many of them but i planned to use Allys in the same cardpool as Nocturne cards

[Davio]

Previews are available on dominion.games, just go to the match page and click on "preview vs bot".

[mxdata]

yeeeeah preview season....
I like the design of the allies. Coastal Haven i love you!

I would be interested in why Hunter doens't consider Night cards.
I know there are not many of them but i planned to use Allys in the same cardpool as Nocturne cards

Most likely because they're in different expansions, unless it turns out that there's some Night cards in Allies, which I doubt will be the case. Actually, even in Nocturne, there aren't any cards that refer to Night cards. Same reason there are no cards outside of Alchemy that refer to Potion costs

[Davio]

yeeeeah preview season....
I like the design of the allies. Coastal Haven i love you!

I would be interested in why Hunter doens't consider Night cards.
I know there are not many of them but i planned to use Allys in the same cardpool as Nocturne cards

Most likely because they're in different expansions, unless it turns out that there's some Night cards in Allies, which I doubt will be the case. Actually, even in Nocturne, there aren't any cards that refer to Night cards. Same reason there are no cards outside of Alchemy that refer to Potion costs

Well there are some night cards which are also Action cards, like Werewolf, so that's still a valid target.

Coastal Haven says "you still draw 5", which I think means exactly what it says? Draw 5? So if you pay to keep 1 Gold in your hand instead of discarding it, after clean-up you draw 5 and now have 6 cards in hand?
And I would assume the effect stacks with the Flag, so if you pay 1 favor and have the Flag, you would simply end up with 7 cards (1 kept, 5 drawn normally and 1 drawn from having the flag).

I like Bauble because in some games, a single +Buy goes a long long way to making an engine viable.

[mxdata]

yeeeeah preview season....
I like the design of the allies. Coastal Haven i love you!

I would be interested in why Hunter doens't consider Night cards.
I know there are not many of them but i planned to use Allys in the same cardpool as Nocturne cards

Most likely because they're in different expansions, unless it turns out that there's some Night cards in Allies, which I doubt will be the case. Actually, even in Nocturne, there aren't any cards that refer to Night cards. Same reason there are no cards outside of Alchemy that refer to Potion costs

Well there are some night cards which are also Action cards, like Werewolf, so that's still a valid target.

Werewolf's the only Night - Action card, all the rest would get discarded by Hunter

Coastal Haven says "you still draw 5", which I think means exactly what it says? Draw 5? So if you pay to keep 1 Gold in your hand instead of discarding it, after clean-up you draw 5 and now have 6 cards in hand?
And I would assume the effect stacks with the Flag, so if you pay 1 favor and have the Flag, you would simply end up with 7 cards (1 kept, 5 drawn normally and 1 drawn from having the flag).

Yeah, that's how it works on Dominion Online, and it makes sense that way. So it's basically similar to Save, except you use Favors instead of coins, and you're not limited to one card

[mxdata]

I really like how, with the fact that you start with 1 Favor, some of these Allies make certain openings more likely. Cave Dwellers increases the probability of having a $5 opening, for example, by choosing to discard your Estate when you have 4 coppers + 1 Estate, and Coastal Haven can turn a 3/4 opening into a 2/5, or a 2/5 into a 1/6! Or, conversely, if there's no good $5 cards, it can turn a 5/2 opening into a 4/3. And Peaceful Cult lets you trash one of your starting Estates on turn 1

[Joshua]

Will there be any bonus previews aswell?

[GendoIkari]

To clarify, in any game with a Liaison, each player starts with 1 Favor Token? Just making sure because it was only mentioned in the sample game, not as part of the regular Liaison rules.

Curious why Peaceful Cult is at the start of your buy phase (as opposed to the end of your turn start of clean-up, or even just at any time). Was it to specifically weaken it with Treasure-Liaisons? End of your turn would act very similarly to start of your buy phase, except for Treasure-Liaisons and various edge cases.

[octelium]

At the start of your buy phase creates decisions with copper. Trash or spend....

[GendoIkari]

At the start of your buy phase creates decisions with copper. Trash or spend....

You'd still have that same decision with end of turn or at any time... you just don't play the coppers that you want to trash.

[octelium]

Doh, true. ...

[LastFootnote]

"End of your turn" is after you've drawn a new hand of cards.

[GendoIkari]

"End of your turn" is after you've drawn a new hand of cards.

Oops. Change my question to start of cleanup then.

[spineflu]

wow i really like claus stephan's art. has he done other dominion cards?


also here's the checkoff sheet from the teaser as of day one

edit: yes, claus stephan's done a whole bunch of dominion cards; for some reason these ones looked different to me.

[Jeebus]

Coastal Haven says "when discarding", I guess this is really "when you would discard"? That is to say, you never discard the cards you want to keep, right? So a Tunnel Capital wouldn't trigger, for instance.

[J Reggie]

Coastal Haven says "when discarding", I guess this is really "when you would discard"? That is to say, you never discard the cards you want to keep, right? So a Tunnel wouldn't trigger, for instance.

Tunnel doesn't trigger during cleanup anyway, right?

[Robz888]

Combos With Scout (RIP)


Underling: Scout's re-ordering ability here is key, because after Scout draws all your starting Estates, you might still have some Coppers (maybe a Silver or two) on top of your deck before the Underling. Now you can move the Underling to the top of your deck. Scout essentially does you a "favor" here. So it's not just a combo, it's a thematic combo.

Bauble: Forms an important three card combo with Scout and Villa. First, you buy a Victory card, then you top deck it with Bauble, then you buy Villa (make sure you chose the extra buy and top-decking options) to return to your action phase, then you play Scout and draw that victory card you just bought. And Bauble is still in play if you want to do this again with an additional Scout.

Broker: Competes with Scout at the same price, so you'll typically forgo this card until the Scout pile runs out.

Hunter: This can really help you get those Scouts out of your deck and into your hand, but you'll end up discarding excess Scouts so it's a bit of a wash.

Skirmisher: Scout is a good defense against an opponent's Skirmisher. Remember: Skirmisher can't make you discard a Scout.

With the Allies, I'm not sure. My sense is they will speed up the game, so we'll have to see how the infamous "Scout Rush" plays out.

[GendoIkari]

Coastal Haven says "when discarding", I guess this is really "when you would discard"? That is to say, you never discard the cards you want to keep, right? So a Tunnel wouldn't trigger, for instance.

Right, I read it not as when taking any particular action, but rather simply during the part of the clean-up phase when discarding your cards is generally happening. So not your standard action-based trigger, but rather just a description of which part of the turn you are doing the thing in. Just like how Flag is referring to the general time that you are drawing cards during cleanup; not reacting to a specific "you have now drawn your new hand" or "you would be drawing your new hand right now".

[Donald X.]

Out of curiosity, why did you make the limit of one Ally a hard rule rather than recommendation? It's not a complaint (indeed, I feel like the limit of one way and two total landscapes should also have been hard limits)

Obv. players can do whatever they want. I like to not overwhelm people with stuff on the table; one Ally is plenty. And then I didn't have to worry about how the cards worked with more than one Ally.

[spineflu]

skirmisher + invest question: A has invested in skirmisher. B plays skirmisher then buys one.

Does A have to discard down first, or can they choose which order the two effects happen?

[Davio]

Coastal Haven says "when discarding", I guess this is really "when you would discard"? That is to say, you never discard the cards you want to keep, right? So a Tunnel wouldn't trigger, for instance.

Tunnel doesn't trigger during cleanup anyway, right?

Cards that do something when discarded always explicitly specify "other than during Clean-up".
Faithful hound does so as well.

But maybe the wording could have been "Before you discard your hand during Clean-up", but I find the actual wording not too confusing.
The intent of the card is clear, you get to keep some cards instead of discarding them. It's not like you first discard, then trigger this, then have to pull stuff from the discard pile.

[mxdata]

skirmisher + invest question: A has invested in skirmisher. B plays skirmisher then buys one.

Does A have to discard down first, or can they choose which order the two effects happen?

I would think that since both are triggered by B gaining the Skirmisher, you get to choose. I can't think of a scenario where the order would be relevant though

[spineflu]

skirmisher + invest question: A has invested in skirmisher. B plays skirmisher then buys one.

Does A have to discard down first, or can they choose which order the two effects happen?

I would think that since both are triggered by B gaining the Skirmisher, you get to choose. I can't think of a scenario where the order would be relevant though

by that you mean you'd always choose the larger final handsize?

[GendoIkari]

Don't effects from different players always happen in turn order? So the Skirmisher would happen first, because it's B's turn and B's effect. Then A's Invest would happen after that. Net result they end discard down to 3 and then draw 2, for a result of 5 cards in hand.

Now if you managed to both play and gain a Skirmisher during your opponent's turn, then it would be the opposite; your opponent's Invest would trigger first because it is their turn. So they would draw 2 cards, and then your Skirmisher would trigger and they would discard down to 3.

[mxdata]

skirmisher + invest question: A has invested in skirmisher. B plays skirmisher then buys one.

Does A have to discard down first, or can they choose which order the two effects happen?

I would think that since both are triggered by B gaining the Skirmisher, you get to choose. I can't think of a scenario where the order would be relevant though

by that you mean you'd always choose the larger final handsize?

D'oh! Of course. For some reason I was mixing up Invest and Camel Train and just thinking it was about discarding your Exiled Skirmisher. Yes, you're completely right, there would be a difference in final handsize depending on the order, so obviously you'd want to resolve Skirmisher before Invest

[Jeebus]

Coastal Haven says "when discarding", I guess this is really "when you would discard"? That is to say, you never discard the cards you want to keep, right? So a Tunnel wouldn't trigger, for instance.

Right, I read it not as when taking any particular action, but rather simply during the part of the clean-up phase when discarding your cards is generally happening. So not your standard action-based trigger, but rather just a description of which part of the turn you are doing the thing in. Just like how Flag is referring to the general time that you are drawing cards during cleanup; not reacting to a specific "you have now drawn your new hand" or "you would be drawing your new hand right now".

(Obviously Tunnel was wrong, but let's say Capital.)

I assume Flag and Expedition trigger at a specific time and that you can order them. I don't think that matters now, but if something (other than Star Chart, Stash and you -1 Card token) were to trigger then, it could potentially matter. I also assume that they trigger after you have drawn your normal hand in Clean-up. Although, Flag is the only one that suggests this from the text ("When drawing your hand, +1 Card", "when" normally meaning "after"). Expedition says "for your next hand" instead, just like Outpost. But if Expedition is timed like Outpost, a Possessing player should be able to choose Outpost last, making it 3 cards total instead of 4 (highly academic of course, since it's just a matter of not buying Expedition at all).

[Jeebus]

Don't effects from different players always happen in turn order? So the Skirmisher would happen first, because it's B's turn and B's effect. Then A's Invest would happen after that. Net result they end discard down to 3 and then draw 2, for a result of 5 cards in hand.

Now if you managed to both play and gain a Skirmisher during your opponent's turn, then it would be the opposite; your opponent's Invest would trigger first because it is their turn. So they would draw 2 cards, and then your Skirmisher would trigger and they would discard down to 3.

Yes. And "each other player" abilities (like Skirmisher) belong to the player being addressed, B in this case.

[markus]

(Obviously Tunnel was wrong, but let's say Capital.)

I don't understand Capital, either, as discarding a Capital from hand doesn't do anything.

[scolapasta]

(Obviously Tunnel was wrong, but let's say Capital.)

I don't understand Capital, either, as discarding a Capital from hand doesn't do anything.

Right, but if you don't discard it you don't have to take the debt. So you can just get the $6 that turn with no penalty and then play it again next turn (and repeat, if you have more favors).

Edit: ah right, I also missed the "from hand" part.

[Jeebus]

No, Markus is right, I'm confused. Coastal Haven is only about the cards you discard from your hand, and none of those trigger in Clean-up.

[BBobb]

Underling seems like it will just depend on the ally in the game, though looking at the current ones it seems pretty solid

Bauble: Seems pretty strong, being able to do a lot of different things. Probably most engines will pick up one or two for +Buy

Broker: Salvager was already pretty good in openings, so this seems very good. Probably a top $4 card

[anordinaryman]

Peaceful cultists proxies a trashing token (a common fan-theme invention).

I am wondering if we might see Favors proxy other mechanics? Like Villagers? I would expect it to not be identical to how Villagers work. Maybe something like "At the start of your turn, you may spend a Favor to play an Action card from your hand." Being weaker because you have to make the choice to spend it at start of turn.
Or "At the start of your Buy phase, you may spend a Favor to play an Action card from your hand." That one sounds pretty interesting actually though it's even weaker.

We might see Favors proxy Coffers, but it'd have to be new somehow like not triggering 1:1. "At the start of your Buy phase, you may spend 2 favors for +$3." League of Bankers makes me think we might not get one of those, although it's a lot less like Coffers and more like Buying a Treasury.

Underling looks great. Peaceful Cult and Cave Dwellers both make it a pretty strong $3, can't wait to see the other Ally options! I also love Bauble, continues the trend of excellently designed $2-cost treasures. With the current Allies options, I'm pretty happy taking $1 and a Favor for most turns and then using the +Buy only as needed.

[mxdata]

It just occurred to me that Way of the Worm + Plateau Shepherd is likely to be *very* strong, as (assuming you accumulate enough Favors), each Estate is effectively equivalent to a Duchy

[AJD]

Played a game with Plateau Shepherd and regular Shepherd (and therefore Pasture); that was definitely a strong combo. Especially since the source of Favors was Bauble, another $2 card.

[GendoIkari]

Coastal Haven says "when discarding", I guess this is really "when you would discard"? That is to say, you never discard the cards you want to keep, right? So a Tunnel wouldn't trigger, for instance.

Right, I read it not as when taking any particular action, but rather simply during the part of the clean-up phase when discarding your cards is generally happening. So not your standard action-based trigger, but rather just a description of which part of the turn you are doing the thing in. Just like how Flag is referring to the general time that you are drawing cards during cleanup; not reacting to a specific "you have now drawn your new hand" or "you would be drawing your new hand right now".

(Obviously Tunnel was wrong, but let's say Capital.)

I assume Flag and Expedition trigger at a specific time and that you can order them. I don't think that matters now, but if something (other than Star Chart, Stash and you -1 Card token) were to trigger then, it could potentially matter. I also assume that they trigger after you have drawn your normal hand in Clean-up. Although, Flag is the only one that suggests this from the text ("When drawing your hand, +1 Card", "when" normally meaning "after"). Expedition says "for your next hand" instead, just like Outpost. But if Expedition is timed like Outpost, a Possessing player should be able to choose Outpost last, making it 3 cards total instead of 4 (highly academic of course, since it's just a matter of not buying Expedition at all).

The reason I don't interpret Flag and Expedition that way is because they use a present-tense "ing" verb. If it said "when you draw your next hand" then I would interpret it your way, that you draw your next hand and that causes them to trigger. But by saying "when drawing" instead of "when you draw", it seems to me to set up a change to the default rules about how drawing your next hand works this turn.

Outpost seems even more clear on that same point, because it doesn't use "when" language at all. It simple changes the normal rule of "draw 5 cards for your next hand" to "draw 3 cards for your next hand". That rule has been changed the moment you play Outpost; it doesn't wait until cleanup to trigger.

[vidicate]

We’ve come a long way. Given Bauble, it’s amazing we would pay 5 for Royal Seal.

[BraydonM]

It just occurred to me that Way of the Worm + Plateau Shepherd is likely to be *very* strong, as (assuming you accumulate enough Favors), each Estate is effectively equivalent to a Duchy

I played some preview games and Plateau Shepherds is often extremely powerful when it appears with bauble. Bauble with Plateau Shepard and any other $2 in the supply or any card that tends to empty quick usually can be won just by grabbing as many baubles and then taking the estates and other cards. Between 10 baubles worth 2 and 8 estates worth 3 you can already get almost as many points as all 8 provinces. Throw on another 2 and you can beat an opponent who got all provinces. The crazy thing is bauble gives you buys to buy more baubles and let’s you top deck too so it’s not hard to pull 2 baubles a turn just using baubles. Of course mixing in an occasional draw card helps but on quite a few boards just rushing the baubles is more effective.

And you don’t NEED another two card or even something like stockpile that’s empties early to there pile. I beat an engine that got 7 provs just by buying all the baubles, estates, and a few gardens.

People are underestimating bauble a lot though, it’s not just good it is a top $2. The top decking option basically gives you a better tracker since you don’t have to worry about the action for only a boon more and then it can also switch to a buy as needed. That’s already really good before you get into allies which do things like make it act as a goat, be worth 2vp, and uptick your favors to get you permanent coins at buy phase start. Even the weaker allies are still strong modes when stuck on such a useful card.

[Jeebus]

Outpost seems even more clear on that same point, because it doesn't use "when" language at all. It simple changes the normal rule of "draw 5 cards for your next hand" to "draw 3 cards for your next hand". That rule has been changed the moment you play Outpost; it doesn't wait until cleanup to trigger.

Outpost is not "when", and can't be, because after you draw it's too late for it to trigger. Like all cards that set up a later ability, it sets it up when you play it, but it triggers later. That has already been established, since Outpost v.1 needed rules for when its set-up ability had been resolved.

I interpret it as "when you would draw cards in clean-up, draw 3 cards instead". That's really the only time it can trigger. It replaces the normal draw, similar to what Ways do. If there were another card like Otpost, that said 6 cards instead of saying 3 cards, and you played both, you should be able to choose which that triggers (like Ways vs. Enchantress). That's what I meant when I talked about interpreting Expedition like Outpost.

[GendoIkari]

Outpost seems even more clear on that same point, because it doesn't use "when" language at all. It simple changes the normal rule of "draw 5 cards for your next hand" to "draw 3 cards for your next hand". That rule has been changed the moment you play Outpost; it doesn't wait until cleanup to trigger.

Outpost is not "when", and can't be, because after you draw it's too late for it to trigger. Like all cards that set up a later ability, it sets it up when you play it, but it triggers later. That has already been established, since Outpost v.1 needed rules for when its set-up ability had been resolved.

I interpret it as "when you would draw cards in clean-up, draw 3 cards instead". That's really the only time it can trigger. It replaces the normal draw, similar to what Ways do. If there were another card like Otpost, that said 6 cards instead of saying 3 cards, and you played both, you should be able to choose which that triggers (like Ways vs. Enchantress). That's what I meant when I talked about interpreting Expedition like Outpost.

I just think that if the intent were for it to be "when you would draw", that it would say "when you would draw". But fair point that if a second ability ever existed with the same wording as Outpost, then we would need a new ruling on how they interact together; because under my model there would be no way to resolve the conflict within the existing rules, while under your model the existing rules already tell you what to do.

[RD]

Out of curiosity, why did you make the limit of one Ally a hard rule rather than recommendation? It's not a complaint (indeed, I feel like the limit of one way and two total landscapes should also have been hard limits)

Obv. players can do whatever they want. I like to not overwhelm people with stuff on the table; one Ally is plenty. And then I didn't have to worry about how the cards worked with more than one Ally.

Extra complexity always sounds fun, but then you lose the game because you overlooked something simple. You swear it won't happen again, but it always does. Dominion veterans can handle a little more complexity but the game is already very rich and complexity increases with every expansion. Why punish the beginners and the people who understandably think they can handle more complexity than they really can?

I haven't played online in a long time, so maybe they're ahead of me, but it'd be fun to see a "Wild Mode" where these sorts of restrictions are lifted. But you'd really have to design the UI to discourage people from using it as the default.

[Robz888]

We’ve come a long way. Given Bauble, it’s amazing we would pay 5 for Royal Seal.

Who knew the right cost for Royal Seal was $2?

[mxdata]

We’ve come a long way. Given Bauble, it’s amazing we would pay 5 for Royal Seal.

Who knew the right cost for Royal Seal was $2?

$2 would definitely be way too cheap for Royal Seal, since that would make it almost strictly better than Silver (barring things like Feodum and Merchant)

[Awaclus]

$2 would definitely be way too cheap for Royal Seal, since that would make it almost strictly better than Silver (barring things like Feodum and Merchant)

$2 for a card-shaped thing whose effect is strictly better than Silver has been in the game and evidently not broken it since Delve.

[pst]

$2 would definitely be way too cheap for Royal Seal, since that would make it almost strictly better than Silver (barring things like Feodum and Merchant)

$2 for a card-shaped thing whose effect is strictly better than Silver has been in the game and evidently not broken it since Delve.

Is that really relevant? Delve doesn't make Silver irrelevant, but rather leads to it being used more.

[Donald X.]

$2 would definitely be way too cheap for Royal Seal, since that would make it almost strictly better than Silver (barring things like Feodum and Merchant)

$2 for a card-shaped thing whose effect is strictly better than Silver has been in the game and evidently not broken it since Delve.

The key problem with a treasure that's Silver with a bonus for $2-$4 is that the pile runs out automatically. This isn't an issue with Delve.

[faust]

We’ve come a long way. Given Bauble, it’s amazing we would pay 5 for Royal Seal.

Yes, I dare say Bauble compares quite favorably to Royal Seal.

[mxdata]

$2 would definitely be way too cheap for Royal Seal, since that would make it almost strictly better than Silver (barring things like Feodum and Merchant)

$2 for a card-shaped thing whose effect is strictly better than Silver has been in the game and evidently not broken it since Delve.

Is that really relevant? Delve doesn't make Silver irrelevant, but rather leads to it being used more.

Yeah, Delve is just about making Silvers cheaper. There's no difference once they're in your deck between Silvers gained with Delve and Silvers bought in the normal way

[trivialknot]

For fun, I'm going to guess at the power level and implications of these cards--without having played any of them online.  Best to get all my wrong thoughts out before reality has time to correct me.

The fact that Underling costs $3 suggests that a favor is about as valuable as a +Buy or +Action, and somewhat less valuable than a +$1.  Of course, depending on the ally, a favor may be more or less powerful, or maybe Underling itself is just fairly powerful relative to its cost.  Based on the previewed allies, I think Underling may be on the strong side relative to its cost.

Bauble is a copper with a bonus.  It reminds me of Candlestick Maker, or Ducat, but without the trashing or coffers.  It faces the question of why would I want to add a copper to my deck.  Probably not a power house, but if you need buys or favors it's there for you.

Broker is Salvager plus flexibility minus buy.  In the early game you're often not using that buy anyway, and you might prefer the terminal draw over money.  But unless you have a lot of fodder, I think it may not be very strong.  Imagine trashing a silver, netting one extra card, but Broker is terminal and is one extra card really enough to replace what you trashed?

To judge allies, I initially try to imagine how strong they would make Underling, the simplest of the liaisons.

Cave Dwellers makes it roughly the power level of old map--pretty good.

Coastal Haven makes Underling a Haven, except you can keep your favors around until you need them.  I think that's way better than Haven.

Peaceful Cult makes Underling a cantrip trasher.  Obviously very good.

Plateau Shepherds, well that one's hard to judge.  If there's a spammable $2-cost, you might get around ~4 of them, maybe ~2 estates, and that's about the value of two provinces.  I think this isn't ignorable, but neither is it dominating--unless there's a strong synergy somewhere.  What's interesting is that you don't want favors right away, you just want them before the game ends.  It may antisynergize with Underling, since Underling just doesn't have the flexibility to grab a bunch of favors at the end.

League of Bankers is also hard to judge, because it's not directly comparable to anything we've seen.  I might compare it to Canal, which is okay at $7 even when there aren't synergies with cost reduction.  Or maybe think of it like a Peddler that you topdeck every turn.  At only 4 favors and stackable, I think this is very cost effective.  But imagine doing this with just Underlings--you have to play a lot of useless cantrips before seeing returns on your investment.

[Holger]

League of Bankers is also hard to judge, because it's not directly comparable to anything we've seen.  I might compare it to Canal, which is okay at $7 even when there aren't synergies with cost reduction.  Or maybe think of it like a Peddler that you topdeck every turn.  At only 4 favors and stackable, I think this is very cost effective.  But imagine doing this with just Underlings--you have to play a lot of useless cantrips before seeing returns on your investment.

It doesn't take that long: Every fourth play of an Underling gives you a "permanent Treasury". I've played a bot game with Underling, Broker (I think) and Bankers, and reached about 32 favours near the end - i.e. a free Province each turn.

[mandioca15]

When scoring with Plateau Shepherds, are cost reductions taken into account, or is it just the static cost of the cards? For example, if you had bought Canal, would Silvers cost $2 or $3 when scoring?

[spineflu]

When scoring with Plateau Shepherds, are cost reductions taken into account, or is it just the static cost of the cards? For example, if you had bought Canal, would Silvers cost $2 or $3 when scoring?

it's not your turn while scoring, so no. the -cost token doesn't apply either, for the same reason.

[BraydonM]

For fun, I'm going to guess at the power level and implications of these cards--without having played any of them online.  Best to get all my wrong thoughts out before reality has time to correct me.

The fact that Underling costs $3 suggests that a favor is about as valuable as a +Buy or +Action, and somewhat less valuable than a +$1.  Of course, depending on the ally, a favor may be more or less powerful, or maybe Underling itself is just fairly powerful relative to its cost.  Based on the previewed allies, I think Underling may be on the strong side relative to its cost.

Bauble is a copper with a bonus.  It reminds me of Candlestick Maker, or Ducat, but without the trashing or coffers.  It faces the question of why would I want to add a copper to my deck.  Probably not a power house, but if you need buys or favors it's there for you.

Broker is Salvager plus flexibility minus buy.  In the early game you're often not using that buy anyway, and you might prefer the terminal draw over money.  But unless you have a lot of fodder, I think it may not be very strong.  Imagine trashing a silver, netting one extra card, but Broker is terminal and is one extra card really enough to replace what you trashed?

To judge allies, I initially try to imagine how strong they would make Underling, the simplest of the liaisons.

Cave Dwellers makes it roughly the power level of old map--pretty good.

Coastal Haven makes Underling a Haven, except you can keep your favors around until you need them.  I think that's way better than Haven.

Peaceful Cult makes Underling a cantrip trasher.  Obviously very good.

Plateau Shepherds, well that one's hard to judge.  If there's a spammable $2-cost, you might get around ~4 of them, maybe ~2 estates, and that's about the value of two provinces.  I think this isn't ignorable, but neither is it dominating--unless there's a strong synergy somewhere.  What's interesting is that you don't want favors right away, you just want them before the game ends.  It may antisynergize with Underling, since Underling just doesn't have the flexibility to grab a bunch of favors at the end.

League of Bankers is also hard to judge, because it's not directly comparable to anything we've seen.  I might compare it to Canal, which is okay at $7 even when there aren't synergies with cost reduction.  Or maybe think of it like a Peddler that you topdeck every turn.  At only 4 favors and stackable, I think this is very cost effective.  But imagine doing this with just Underlings--you have to play a lot of useless cantrips before seeing returns on your investment.

I appreciate the attempt but from playing the previews this is just wrong in a lot of cases. Underling is often the worst of the 3 of the first group of liaisons. Where underling shines the most is with league of bankers where it can quickly become a significant gold boost. Bauble is very strong and largely because of the top decking which you aren’t really counting. Tracker is decently powerful but compared to bauble it is a terminal action just to gain a boon. Obviously in certain combos or with a lucky wisp early it can beat bauble but in most cases this is an improved tracker that also has the advantage of modality which you are also ignoring despite it being a huge benefit. Every game I am using the top decking because getting your good cards faster is a huge advantage. Bauble is good even without a solid ally and with a solid ally it can be vastly superior to ducat or supplies both of which are bought consistently on boards they appear on. Cult makes it a trashing treasure, others allow you to gain, and Shepherds plateau makes it game defining. The Plateau Shepherds + bauble combo is very noteworthy because it will take over like groom and a cheap green in supply but is likely to happen more often due to the fact that a liaison creates an ally. It is not quite as powerful but nobody going for province has beat it in several games I played with it. You do need one other card which is either a 2 or something that piles fast but past that buying baubles and using those to buy more two can get you 2 cards most turns and they create favors to bring that up to 4 points a turn starting very early. It works great with any other 2 in supply, gardens, or anything that piles early such as stockpile.

Broker is also a very good card. Early it helps hit 5 while getting rid of estates or turns estates into favors which are again very good. Nobody is actually planning on playing it for +cards or actions most boards but when you are near ending and draw it with 4 terminals on a bad shuffle you see that +actions as a mode is a substantial power boost. And of course if there is something like Ill gotten gains you want to gain and lose then it’s amazing.

Edit: One more comparison, bauble is like using way of the seal on a card but without needing the action. Comparing it to any top decking in the game it stacks up great.