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[J Reggie]

Welcome to Hatchling Mafia

This is an invented Open Normal setup for 13 players.  The setup is described in the following post.


Player List:
1. MiX
2. Swowl
3. Galzria Jack Rudd
4. mathdude
5. EFHW
6. scolapasta
7. WestCoastDidds
8. jotheonah
9. faust
10. gkrieg13
11. infangthief
12. Dylan32
13. 2.71828.....

Game Tracker:
Day 1: Start 1 2 3 4 5 End
Day 2: Start 1 2 3 4 5 End
Day 3: Start 1 2 End
Day 4: Start 1 End

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information (including QT opening and closing times) is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between an exile being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the exiled player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. An exiled player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no exile.
5. Exiles occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, an exile cannot be undone.
6. If a majority exile is not reached by the Day's deadline, a plurality exile takes place. If there is a tie, the player who has had that number of votes for the longest is exiled.

The Rest:
1. Bold, Lime Green text is reserved for the MODs. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. Players may request prods on other players if they have not posted in 24 hours. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own Discord channel, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without an exile or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last 48 hours.

[J Reggie]

The Setup:

At the start of the game, each player is an unhatched egg.  What is inside that egg is determined at the start of the game but not told to the player.  When a player hatches, they will be told that they have hatched and what their role is. The following is a complete list of the roles inside the eggs:


Town roles:
Cop
Inverted cop
Weak doctor
Placebo doctor
1-shot double voter
1-shot vigilante
Hatcher
Tracker
Watcher
Tree stump

Mafia roles:
Role cop
Hatched cop
Roleblocker

Role Descriptions (important/unexpected clarifications in bold):

The cop and inverted cop will both only be told that they are a cop when they hatch. They will be given a result of either green or red upon investigating a player.
The weak doctor and placebo doctor will both only be told that they are a doctor when they hatch. If the placebo doctor saves a player, that player will die at the beginning of the following night, before hatching calculations.
The 1-shot double voter automatically uses their role the day that they hatch.
The 1-shot vigilante must use their shot the night that they hatch, but may choose not to shoot and instead give up their shot.
The hatcher targets one player each night.  If that player is not already hatched, they will hatch the following night.
The tracker and watcher will both only be told that they are a detective when they hatch.
The tree stump role will not be told that they have hatched until they die. When that player would die, they will be informed that they have hatched and will become a tree stump instead, still being able to post in the thread. Until they die, they continue to be a living player with the ability to vote.
The role cop always receives the role of the player they target, regardless of whether that player has hatched. The role cop may also target dead players. They will receive the exact role of the player they target.
The hatched cop targets one player each night and learns if that player is hatched or not, but not their role.
If the roleblocker blocks a passive role (double voter, tree stump), that role will not be able to use its power that night and the following day. This means that a double voter will only have a single vote if roleblocked and a tree stump will not be able to post in the thread if they die during that time.
The mafia investigative results are posted in the mafia thread; you do not have to set up a code. These results are posted regardless of whether that player died during the night.

So how do players hatch?

The Hatching Rules:

Each night, starting N1

(Conditions are evaluated and resolved sequentially.)

If less than 40% of town is hatched (percentages of town include living players and dead tree stumps) or there are more Mafia alive than hatched town:

• One town role hatches.

If less than 50% of town is hatched:

• If no mafia roles are hatched, an additional one town role and one mafia role hatch.
• Otherwise if there is an unhatched Mafia role, there is a chance, starting at 33% and increasing by 33% each night this condition is met until it succeeds, that one town role and one Mafia role will hatch. 

If at least 50% of town is hatched:

• One Mafia role hatches

Night 1 only

• The N2 town hatch is chosen. If it is not investigative, there is a 50% chance it will hatch N1 instead. This means that if this player is killed N1 or exiled D2, there will be no N2 town hatch. If the N2 town hatch fails due to too many town being hatched, this choice is discarded.
  

(These percentages are subject to change before the game opens. I will post to let players know if that happens.)

Night Actions:

Night actions are due 12 hours before the start of the next day. When a player hatches, they will be informed at the beginning of the night. If they have a night action, they may use it that night. Please check your QT each night to confirm whether or not you have hatched.

Night action order:
Placebo doctor death (postponed from previous night)
Player targeted by Hatcher previous night hatches
Hatching calculations
Roleblocking
Saving roles and Hatcher
Killing roles
Investigative roles

Flips:

If a hatched player dies, they will flip as their role. If an unhatched player dies, they will flip as an unhatched egg (with alignment indicated). Role pairs (Cop/Inverted Cop etc.) only flip as the role they were told, not which one they are.

[J Reggie]

A few notes:

Since II's game is dead, I thought M137 would be the appropriate designation.

Going through the rules that have been copied from game to game, I found a typo and several uses of outdated terminology, which I have changed.

[MiX]

/in

[Swowl]

Sweet /In sauce

[Galzria]

I’m hatch/ing!

[mathdude]

Hop/ing this starts up soon!

[EFHW]

I need to break out of my shell! /in

[scolapasta]

I need to break out of my shell! /in

I'll stay /in my shell, thank you very much.

[Swowl]

is there a baseline for hatches? or is it possible for no hatches to occur?

[J Reggie]

is there a baseline for hatches? or is it possible for no hatches to occur?

Night 1, there are guaranteed to be at least 3 hatches. After that, it is possible for no players to hatch during a night.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi J Reggie! It’s nice to meet you! /in

[J Reggie]

Hi J Reggie! It’s nice to meet you! /in

Hi Didds! I could have sworn I was in your first game, but it looks like I was just in the speccy! Nice to formally meet you!

[jotheonah]

/in

[faust]

/in

I have questions!

- I assume roles are usable on the Night that they are hatched?
- how do flips work? Specifically:
-- does a player's hatched/non-hatched status flip?
-- do unhatched roles flip?
-- does Cop sanity etc. flip?

[J Reggie]

/in

I have questions!

- I assume roles are usable on the Night that they are hatched?
- how do flips work? Specifically:
-- does a player's hatched/non-hatched status flip?
-- do unhatched roles flip?
-- does Cop sanity etc. flip?

I was actually just working on the phrasing to clarify this. I will update the setup post soon.

[J Reggie]

The setup post has been updated with clarifications and tweaks to the percentages for hatching.

Also note that I have switched to using the term "inverted cop" to avoid using a derogatory term.  The role still works exactly the same: the cop receives an inverted result.

[gkrieg13]

/in

[jotheonah]

So half of the town will never hatch?

[J Reggie]

So half of the town will never hatch?

Not necessarily.  If 50% of living town players (and dead tree stumps) are already hatched, there won't be any chance for an automatic town hatch that night.  But the Hatcher role can still hatch other players, and if hatched players die, the percentage is lowered and it could make way for more town players to hatch.  Keep in mind that it's not RMM; the chance that you will hatch during this game is on par with the chance that you would roll a PR in any given normal game.

[jotheonah]

How much of the swinginess of the game comes down to whether the hatcher hatches?

[J Reggie]

How much of the swinginess of the game comes down to whether the hatcher hatches?

The Hatcher is arguably town's strongest role; having it hatch early in the game can give town a nice head start on hatches.  But mafia gets compensation if town has a lot of hatched players, and more town won't hatch if the hatcher successfully hatches many townies.  Say 3 town roles hatch N1, including the Hatcher.  In a scenario where town is exiled D1 and D2, unhatched town dies N1, and the Hatcher targets town N1, that leaves us with 8 townies at the start of N2, 4 of whom are hatched.  Town won't get any more automatic hatches, but mafia will.  In testing, correct Hatcher targets really just mean that town gets its hatches sooner (which is good for town), but mafia gets more roles to counter those hatched roles.  Additionally, the Hatcher can target Mafia, which kind of negates that advantage to town.

Edit: on the flipside, if the hatcher never hatches, town will get more automatic hatches, it just happens a little slower.

[infangthief]

/inzies

Is it 3 mafia 10 town?

[infangthief]

The following is a complete list of the roles inside the eggs:

Oh, I see, there is guaranteed to be exactly one of each of these roles in the game?

[J Reggie]

The following is a complete list of the roles inside the eggs:

Oh, I see, there is guaranteed to be exactly one of each of these roles in the game?

Yes.

The setup post has been updated again with additional rules clarifications and one small change to the town hatch rule.

[WestCoastDidds]

Dylan? Gloobe? e?

Come play!!!

[EFHW]

I like this. On N1, who is choosing the N2 hatch?

[J Reggie]

I like this. On N1, who is choosing the N2 hatch?

I am, randomly of course. This is basically to make the game less solvable via massclaim (otherwise it's guaranteed that exactly 2 town will hatch N1).

[infangthief]

Will vote counts indicate the actual number of votes for the double voter (2 votes) and tree stump (0 votes), once hatched?

[J Reggie]

Will vote counts indicate the actual number of votes for the double voter (2 votes) and tree stump (0 votes), once hatched?

Yes

[J Reggie]

I realized that my description of the tree stump role was not clear enough, so I have added to the description. That player will become a tree stump when they die, if they have hatched first.

[mathdude]

*bump*

... going into withdrawal

[Dylan32]

/in

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, would Eddie play?

[MiX]

MiX, would Eddie play?

No.

It's actually a bit freaky how sure I am of this.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, would Eddie play?

No.

It's actually a bit freaky how sure I am of this.

Sadz. I miss Eddie.

[2.71828.....]

Meh.

/Hammer

[2.71828.....]

qts are being run on discord, right? I am @irrationale on discord, just need to get on the right server

[J Reggie]

Here's a current link to the server! https://discord.gg/MmAGVFu6

Once everyone has joined the server and I've assigned you to your channels, I'll send you your role pm in your channel and we can get this started. No need to confirm until I lock the thread and send you your pm.

[Swowl]

yayyyy

[WestCoastDidds]

Meh.

/Hammer

Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!!

[J Reggie]

Thread locked! Role PMs going out shortly via discord. Please confirm in your discord QT. Night 0 will officially start when everyone has confirmed and last for 24 hours.

Two final clarifications have been made to the setup for the cop and role cop.

Here are the role PMs for reference:

Welcome to Hatchling Mafia! You are an unhatched green egg. You win when all the red eggs are eliminated. Check back here each night to see if you have hatched!

Welcome to Hatchling Mafia! You are an unhatched red egg. You win when all the green eggs are eliminated and there is at least one red egg left alive or nothing can prevent that from happening. At night, you can chat with your partners and decide who to kill. Check back here each night to see if you have hatched!

[J Reggie]

Night 0 begins now and ends on 15 February at 9:00 forum time.

If you are a red egg, you will see the mafia chat just above your personal QT in the list of channels. You can chat with your buddies there during the night.

Thread still locked except for tags.

[J Reggie]

In case it wasn't clear, the first hatches happen N1. I'll put this explicitly in the setup for future reference. Apologies for any confusion.

[J Reggie]

As the sun rose over the trees, thirteen happy eggs sat in the nest. One day, they would take to the skies… that is, if they had time to hatch and grow up first. Unfortunately, three of the eggs decided they would rather sabotage the others! Could they be stopped before they all got fried?

Not voting (13): MiX, Swowl, Galzria, mathdude, EFHW, scolapasta, WestCoastDidds, jotheonah, faust, gkrieg13, infangthief, Dylan32, 2.71828.....

Day 1 starts now and ends on 22 February at 9:00 forum time.

Thread unlocked!

[infangthief]

Firstle!

[jotheonah]

[MiX]

Vote: joth

So I guess we're all VTs?


Oh, hi everyone.

[infangthief]

So I guess we're all VTs?

Except for MiX. MiX is scum.

Oh, hi MiX!

[jotheonah]

Vote: joth

So I guess we're all VTs?

Or none of us are VTs. Depends on how you look at it.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: joth

So I guess we're all VTs?

Or none of us are VTs. Depends on how you look at it.

How do you look at it?

[2.71828.....]

I take things as they come. So everyone is vanilla, but not everyone is vanilla town.

It is sad that we can't argue over a D1 mass claim.

[jotheonah]

Vote: joth

So I guess we're all VTs?

Or none of us are VTs. Depends on how you look at it.

How do you look at it?

We all have power deep inside us, we just don't know what it is.

[infangthief]

vote: e

And hi.

[jotheonah]

So here's a productive discussion. Given that roles are pre-determined, is it worth considering a no-exile in the hopes of saving a useful egg? There will be no X-1 claims so our somewhat random D1 exile could easily hit one of our best PRs. And we wouldn't even know it.

But maybe it's better to think of this as a normal closed setup where only some of the roles are "in the game". Rather than acting as if they're all real and need to be preserved.

[infangthief]

The roles are pre-determined, but the hatching order is not (except for possibly the weird N2 hatch).
If we exile a town egg today it's not like we've exiled the person who was going to become a PR. Someone else will become a PR instead.
The only benefit I can see from no-exiling is if somehow it keeps the town-hatch percentage below 40%. But again, not helpful day 1.

[jotheonah]

Can I get some clarifications on the Tree Stump role?

So the Tree Stump can hatch, but they won't be told that they're hatched. Do they have the same chance of hatching as any other role?

And then, when they die, if they have already hatched (even though they don't know it) they will become a tree stump. On the other hand, if they die without hatching, they will just die like anybody else. Is this right?

[J Reggie]

Can I get some clarifications on the Tree Stump role?

So the Tree Stump can hatch, but they won't be told that they're hatched. Do they have the same chance of hatching as any other role?

And then, when they die, if they have already hatched (even though they don't know it) they will become a tree stump. On the other hand, if they die without hatching, they will just die like anybody else. Is this right?

This is correct.

[faust]

So here's a productive discussion. Given that roles are pre-determined, is it worth considering a no-exile in the hopes of saving a useful egg? There will be no X-1 claims so our somewhat random D1 exile could easily hit one of our best PRs. And we wouldn't even know it.

But maybe it's better to think of this as a normal closed setup where only some of the roles are "in the game". Rather than acting as if they're all real and need to be preserved.

Yep, no exile is pretty bad. The setup is actually uniquely good for D1 exiling. Noone is a PR, we do not have to worry about any potential last minute claims. Also, usually you have some false signals where a player might play scummily because they have an important PR. This time around, only scum is scummy!

[faust]

So I guess we're all VTs?

Except for MiX. MiX is scum.

Oh, hi MiX!

I'm sold.

Vote: MiX

[gkrieg13]

Vote: MiX for obvious reasons.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

[2.71828.....]

All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

[infangthief]

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Convinces me anyway

[infangthief]

Actually, everyone who's posted so far seems pretty scummy.

Except gkrieg. gkrieg is town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!  I hope you are all doing well!

Happy eggs in a nest!  I am not sure why I find this so charming, but I do.

[MiX]

So here's a productive discussion. Given that roles are pre-determined, is it worth considering a no-exile in the hopes of saving a useful egg? There will be no X-1 claims so our somewhat random D1 exile could easily hit one of our best PRs. And we wouldn't even know it.

But maybe it's better to think of this as a normal closed setup where only some of the roles are "in the game". Rather than acting as if they're all real and need to be preserved.

No. Just pretend there's only a few PRs in the game. In fact, we should definitely exile someone today, since we won't trust everyone with a PR.

Hold on, you said both things...I'm glad I'm voting for you already.

[MiX]

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Do you have a reason to think infang would vote town in RVS as scum?

[EFHW]

vote: fang for his really cool codenames variant!

JReggie, are the egg's roles already assigned, or do you assign them at the time of hatching?

That's regarding the question of whether we lose prs by exiling blind.

[J Reggie]

vote: fang for his really cool codenames variant!

JReggie, are the egg's roles already assigned, or do you assign them at the time of hatching?

That's regarding the question of whether we lose prs by exiling blind.

They are already assigned.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Do you have a reason to think infang would vote town in RVS as scum?

That's a good point. We should flip you so that way we can ask questions like this on D2

[Galzria]

Oh my! A game!

This isn't a controversial take, but no, we should not No-Exile D1.

Reggie, will we learn what PR's the unhatched eggs would have been when exiled?

[2.71828.....]

Of the " 'RVS' pile on MiX " crew I find gkrieg the most scummy. Or is that just leftover bias from a long forgotten game?

Vote: gkrieg

[Galzria]

Of the " 'RVS' pile on MiX " crew I find gkrieg the most scummy. Or is that just leftover bias from a long forgotten game?

Vote: gkrieg

Why is that group of people more scummy than those that did not pile on?

[J Reggie]

Oh my! A game!

This isn't a controversial take, but no, we should not No-Exile D1.

Reggie, will we learn what PR's the unhatched eggs would have been when exiled?

This is answered in the last section of the setup post.

[Galzria]

Snapshot scum-to-chum list:

e!
joth
EFHW
Gkrieg
WCD
Fang
faust
MiX

Still need posts by: math, scola, swowl, Dylan.

[Galzria]

vote: e!

[MiX]

Galzria is town.

[EFHW]

vote: fang for his really cool codenames variant!

JReggie, are the egg's roles already assigned, or do you assign them at the time of hatching?

That's regarding the question of whether we lose prs by exiling blind.

So we do risk losing good pr's but no exile doesn't seem like a solution to that. We'll always be in that situation to some degree, especially without flips provided by exiling.

Is it just me or does it seem like joth finds a reason to suggest no exile in every game lately?

They are already assigned.

[EFHW]

sorry about the quotefail. You'll figure it out.

[faust]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

[MiX]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

It's an incredibly short readslist that has my most confident reads in it. I don't see the problem.

[jotheonah]

Snapshot scum-to-chum list:

e!
joth
EFHW
Gkrieg
WCD
Fang
faust
MiX

Still need posts by: math, scola, swowl, Dylan.

Oh dear, you've posted your list upside-down. How embarrassing.

[jotheonah]

Is it just me or does it seem like joth finds a reason to suggest no exile in every game lately?

I can live with this meta.

[Swowl]

Heyo
forgot this was opening today.

I see no reason to No-Ex today. Or more than usual at least.

[gkrieg13]

So here's a productive discussion. Given that roles are pre-determined, is it worth considering a no-exile in the hopes of saving a useful egg? There will be no X-1 claims so our somewhat random D1 exile could easily hit one of our best PRs. And we wouldn't even know it.

But maybe it's better to think of this as a normal closed setup where only some of the roles are "in the game". Rather than acting as if they're all real and need to be preserved.

This seems really bad.

[gkrieg13]

Actually, everyone who's posted so far seems pretty scummy.

Except gkrieg. gkrieg is town.

I mean, obviously, but why?

[gkrieg13]

Of the " 'RVS' pile on MiX " crew I find gkrieg the most scummy. Or is that just leftover bias from a long forgotten game?

Vote: gkrieg

Why wouldn't we want wagons that people have to decide between?

[gkrieg13]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

I usually post them when I want to semi-randomly assign town to someone so that I can forget about them and focus on other people to find scum.

[mathdude]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Work is busy these days, so I likely won't be on as often as usual (unless I'm procrastinating doing my lesson planning).

[Dylan32]

Blah blah first post - a long time since last game - missed y'all - etc.

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

It's an incredibly short readslist that has my most confident reads in it. I don't see the problem.

I have to admit, I chuckled at that. Despite the humor, I actually am actually leaning scum on MiX, but that's not my strongest read.

All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Of the " 'RVS' pile on MiX " crew I find gkrieg the most scummy. Or is that just leftover bias from a long forgotten game?

Vote: gkrieg

These both after only 2 votes on MiX from faust and gkrieg. It seems more like seeing a wagon starting to build on a partner and trying to move momentum early enough to stop it rather than a townie reaction to a couple RVS votes.

Vote: e

[2.71828.....]

Blah blah first post - a long time since last game - missed y'all - etc.

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

It's an incredibly short readslist that has my most confident reads in it. I don't see the problem.

I have to admit, I chuckled at that. Despite the humor, I actually am actually leaning scum on MiX, but that's not my strongest read.

All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Of the " 'RVS' pile on MiX " crew I find gkrieg the most scummy. Or is that just leftover bias from a long forgotten game?

Vote: gkrieg

These both after only 2 votes on MiX from faust and gkrieg. It seems more like seeing a wagon starting to build on a partner and trying to move momentum early enough to stop it rather than a townie reaction to a couple RVS votes.

Vote: e

I guess I was including fang in my calculus, but they only threw shade, no vote

[2.71828.....]

Of the " 'RVS' pile on MiX " crew I find gkrieg the most scummy. Or is that just leftover bias from a long forgotten game?

Vote: gkrieg

Why wouldn't we want wagons that people have to decide between?

Sounds good, more people should vote gkrieg

[faust]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Lame.

[WestCoastDidds]

Snapshot scum-to-chum list:

e!
joth
EFHW
Gkrieg
WCD
Fang
faust
MiX

Still need posts by: math, scola, swowl, Dylan.

Oh dear, you've posted your list upside-down. How embarrassing.

Right? I bet he hates it when that happens.

[infangthief]

Actually, everyone who's posted so far seems pretty scummy.

Except gkrieg. gkrieg is town.

I mean, obviously, but why?

Because there can only be 3 scum.

I forgot about MiX, he's not been scummy either. My "MiX is scum" was pure RVS nonsense and refers back to last game I was in. My vote for e was not RVS.

[infangthief]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Please let me know when you've done this and what your findings are.

[infangthief]

Snapshot scum-to-chum list:

e!
joth
EFHW
Gkrieg
WCD
Fang
faust
MiX

Still need posts by: math, scola, swowl, Dylan.

Oh dear, you've posted your list upside-down. How embarrassing.

Right? I bet he hates it when that happens.

Didds, are you saying your reads are roughly opposite to Galzria's?

[MiX]

Joth is not that scummy, I suppose. I think too much about joth, so much so that I can't remember when my supposed tells on him were right or wrong. I just remember that I trusted them, so I keep trusting them based on that memory instead of looking at results. I should probably look into his previous games to get that checked out.

On the other hand, Didds seems weird. I have reasons to think she cannot be scum, but otherwise she is very scummy. So, with that contradiction, I'll

Vote: Didds

And maybe I can explain this in 24 hours or so.

[EFHW]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

I usually post them when I want to semi-randomly assign town to someone so that I can forget about them and focus on other people to find scum.

I don't get it. Semi-random doesn't seem to fit putting someone to the side and focusing on others to find scum.

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 1.1
Some birds, including pelicans, can squawk from inside their eggs if they are too hot or cold before hatching.

2.71828..... (3) : infangthief, Galzria, Dylan32
MiX (2) : faust, gkrieg13
infangthief (1) : EFHW
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (5) : jotheonah, mathdude, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
 
Currently, 2.71828..... is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at February 22, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

[EFHW]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

[EFHW]

I missed the plurality exile detail.

[EFHW]

vote: MiX

[WestCoastDidds]

Snapshot scum-to-chum list:

e!
joth
EFHW
Gkrieg
WCD
Fang
faust
MiX

Still need posts by: math, scola, swowl, Dylan.

Oh dear, you've posted your list upside-down. How embarrassing.

Right? I bet he hates it when that happens.

Didds, are you saying your reads are roughly opposite to Galzria's?

Mostly I was goofing around with Joth being funny. But to the extent that there are “reads” after 12 hours, kind of.

I have faust and fang near the top, Joth and EFHW near the bottom

[WestCoastDidds]

Joth is not that scummy, I suppose. I think too much about joth, so much so that I can't remember when my supposed tells on him were right or wrong. I just remember that I trusted them, so I keep trusting them based on that memory instead of looking at results. I should probably look into his previous games to get that checked out.

On the other hand, Didds seems weird. I have reasons to think she cannot be scum, but otherwise she is very scummy. So, with that contradiction, I'll

Vote: Didds

And maybe I can explain this in 24 hours or so.

Oh, I’m intrigued! Tell me more! I’m not sure why I cannot be scum, but I am in fact a green egg, so I am not.

I might be weird, though, yeah. I usually have no idea what to do on a D1, but that is even more so now when I don’t even know my role. But instead of being quiet and befuddle, I’ve decided to be try to be more present albeit still befuddled. I figure that without knowing what I am (other than a cute egg!) there is very little I can do to actually screw something up. So, pressure’s off! Let’s go!

[Swowl]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

I know why I do it... but the reason doesn't hold after like only a page and half day of content.

[Swowl]

I missed the plurality exile detail.

uh +1 good catch

[Swowl]

Is it just me or does it seem like joth finds a reason to suggest no exile in every game lately?

I can live with this meta.

Cool. but why? specifically in this game on specifically Day 1 I feel like this is the literal opportune Day in any game outside of a all VT game. Why is NoEx good here day 1?

[gkrieg13]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

I usually post them when I want to semi-randomly assign town to someone so that I can forget about them and focus on other people to find scum.

I don't get it. Semi-random doesn't seem to fit putting someone to the side and focusing on others to find scum.

It’s like giving someone a day pass. Saying you aren’t going to look at them until later.

[infangthief]

Night 1 only

• The N2 town hatch is chosen. If it is not investigative, there is a 50% chance it will hatch N1 instead. This means that if this player is exiled D1, there will be no N2 town hatch. If the N2 town hatch fails due to too many town being hatched, this choice is discarded.
  

Hi J Reggie, where it says "if this player is exiled D1", should that be "D2"?
Also, at what point during Night 1 is the N2 town hatch chosen? Before or after kills? Could there be no N2 town hatch because the selected player got killed N1?

[infangthief]

I have faust and fang near the top, Joth and EFHW near the bottom

Situation normal then
Would you care to say why I'm near the top?

[infangthief]

I missed the plurality exile detail.

Yes, me too.
Another thing that I missed until reading again just now is that the hatching calculations are done sequentially. So the <40% town => town hatch, could cause the town percentage to be at least 50% by the time we get to the next step. If I've understood it right.

[infangthief]

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Do you have a reason to think infang would vote town in RVS as scum?

That's a good point. We should flip you so that way we can ask questions like this on D2

I don't understand this post. How does flipping MiX help us ask questions like this?

[infangthief]

Also, e, what is the good point that MiX made? I think I understand MiX's point, but I'm not sure that you do.

Also also, are you e, or e!, or just an approximation to e? Why do people put an exclamation mark?

[faust]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

[faust]

I have faust and fang near the top, Joth and EFHW near the bottom

You mean like, your top scumreads are
- the guy you've been scum with in your most recent (non-Bastard) game
- the guy who was most suspicious of you in your most recent (non-Bastard) game

That sure is... convenient.

[faust]

Also also, are you e, or e!, or just an approximation to e? Why do people put an exclamation mark?

I've assumed it's just because a single lowercase letter as a name can be confusing in a post? e! requires the introduction of the Gamma function, and is actually 4.26082047....., so it can't be that.

[infangthief]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

What about Galzria's scum-to-chum list?

[2.71828.....]

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Do you have a reason to think infang would vote town in RVS as scum?

That's a good point. We should flip you so that way we can ask questions like this on D2

I don't understand this post. How does flipping MiX help us ask questions like this?

It was joke of sorts. My train of thought went this way: in order for us to ask "why would scum!fang do this to town!MiX" requires us to know for certain that either MiX is town or fang is scum. This involves a flip. So what MiX was really asking was for us to exile himself (flipping town) so we could do the wagon analysis D2 on you to determine that you are scum.

I mean, we could exile you for the flip and make the determination that MiX is scum, but it is funnier pointing out that MiX was (indirectly) asking to exile himself

[infangthief]

But I was voting for you, not MiX.

[2.71828.....]

Also, e, what is the good point that MiX made? I think I understand MiX's point, but I'm not sure that you do.

Also also, are you e, or e!, or just an approximation to e? Why do people put an exclamation mark?

I don't know about the exclamation point, that just happened. Some people use 2.7, some use e, you can go with my ShuffleIT username irrationale, or some other shorthand that is recognizable that works.

My username here (2.71828....) is not programmer friendly, which is why I switched to irrationale (irrational number e, irrationally, irrationale...I thought myself clever at some point several years ago).

[2.71828.....]

But I was voting for you, not MiX.

You know what, that's right. I had it in my head that you were voting for MiX after your first post about him, but you were voting for me

I should really pay better attention.

[2.71828.....]

I guess I still think myself clever. Proving myself wrong a day at a time

[infangthief]

The only other time I've been in a game with you, you asked some question about your rationale. It was days before I noticed your cleverness.

[infangthief]

The only other time I've been in a game with you, you asked some question about your rationale. It was days before I noticed your cleverness.

Sorry, that probably came out wrong. I mean, I was slow.

[MiX]

But I was voting for you, not MiX.

Yeah, this...hmm...uh...townpoints for e, I suppose. Way more for infang though, I liked these posts.

Giving reads information away is great! Mostly because there aren't set in stone at all, so I want to give them a little bit more confirmation bias.

[faust]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

What about Galzria's scum-to-chum list?

Well it's not great, but I can at least see that creating a readslist has some value in helping to organize your thoughts (though preferably they wouldn't get posted).

[faust]

Giving reads information away is great! Mostly because there aren't set in stone at all, so I want to give them a little bit more confirmation bias.

I'm like 70% sure that I'm being trolled at this point.

[EFHW]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

I usually post them when I want to semi-randomly assign town to someone so that I can forget about them and focus on other people to find scum.

I don't get it. Semi-random doesn't seem to fit putting someone to the side and focusing on others to find scum.

It’s like giving someone a day pass. Saying you aren’t going to look at them until later.

So you announce in thread that they are town? Sorry about belaboring this, but what you are saying sounds strange to me.

[jotheonah]

Is it just me or does it seem like joth finds a reason to suggest no exile in every game lately?

I can live with this meta.

Cool. but why? specifically in this game on specifically Day 1 I feel like this is the literal opportune Day in any game outside of a all VT game. Why is NoEx good here day 1?

(haven't fully caught up)

So, ok. Assume there are better and worse town PRs. In a normal game, you have some protection against the day 1 exile accidentally hitting your best PRs. There are X-1 claims, which are often believed. So the calculus of exile vs no exile includes the fact that the exile is relatively safe in terms of hitting your best PRs. In this game, our best PRs don't even know their roles. So we could hit our cop or our vig or whatever you think is the best role in there much more easily than in a normal game.

[jotheonah]

It was joke of sorts. My train of thought went this way: in order for us to ask "why would scum!fang do this to town!MiX" requires us to know for certain that either MiX is town or fang is scum. This involves a flip. So what MiX was really asking was for us to exile himself (flipping town) so we could do the wagon analysis D2 on you to determine that you are scum.

I mean, we could exile you for the flip and make the determination that MiX is scum, but it is funnier pointing out that MiX was (indirectly) asking to exile himself

vote: e for this post. Something about saying "it was a joke of sorts" instead of just "it was a joke" pings me scummy. Like e is afraid that just calling it a joke will seem like scum trying to back off a read, and compensating with that hedge. This is a very weak day 1 case but it was about time I voted.

[faust]

Is it just me or does it seem like joth finds a reason to suggest no exile in every game lately?

I can live with this meta.

Cool. but why? specifically in this game on specifically Day 1 I feel like this is the literal opportune Day in any game outside of a all VT game. Why is NoEx good here day 1?

(haven't fully caught up)

So, ok. Assume there are better and worse town PRs. In a normal game, you have some protection against the day 1 exile accidentally hitting your best PRs. There are X-1 claims, which are often believed. So the calculus of exile vs no exile includes the fact that the exile is relatively safe in terms of hitting your best PRs. In this game, our best PRs don't even know their roles. So we could hit our cop or our vig or whatever you think is the best role in there much more easily than in a normal game.

This goes at things from completely the wrong way. Forcing a PR to claim is only very marginally better than exiling them. The calculus for exiles should in fact take this into account: In pursuing an exile, we should assume to out (and thus effectively all but lose) some average X of town PRs. The higher X is, the stronger the case for no exile. In this game, X = 0.

[jotheonah]

This is why I love playing with you faust. We have exactly opposite brains. I think sometimes it leads us down a rabbit hole of suspicion with each other, but it also really helps expand my understanding of the game.

[jotheonah]

Like you can roughly divide this forum into humanities people and math people and we're wired very differently. It's interesting to think about how much of a role that has played in games over the years.

[J Reggie]

Night 1 only

• The N2 town hatch is chosen. If it is not investigative, there is a 50% chance it will hatch N1 instead. This means that if this player is exiled D1, there will be no N2 town hatch. If the N2 town hatch fails due to too many town being hatched, this choice is discarded.
  

Hi J Reggie, where it says "if this player is exiled D1", should that be "D2"?
Also, at what point during Night 1 is the N2 town hatch chosen? Before or after kills? Could there be no N2 town hatch because the selected player got killed N1?

Yes, that should read "D2".

It is before night kills, so that player could also be night killed.

[MiX]

Giving reads information away is great! Mostly because there aren't set in stone at all, so I want to give them a little bit more confirmation bias.

I'm like 70% sure that I'm being trolled at this point.

Trolled is probably the wrong word, but yes.

Also, I do believe it helps town, or at least me. If it helps scum more, I'm not sure, and in fact I don't care.

It was joke of sorts. My train of thought went this way: in order for us to ask "why would scum!fang do this to town!MiX" requires us to know for certain that either MiX is town or fang is scum. This involves a flip. So what MiX was really asking was for us to exile himself (flipping town) so we could do the wagon analysis D2 on you to determine that you are scum.

I mean, we could exile you for the flip and make the determination that MiX is scum, but it is funnier pointing out that MiX was (indirectly) asking to exile himself

vote: e for this post. Something about saying "it was a joke of sorts" instead of just "it was a joke" pings me scummy. Like e is afraid that just calling it a joke will seem like scum trying to back off a read, and compensating with that hedge. This is a very weak day 1 case but it was about time I voted.

I like this analysis.

This is why I love playing with you faust. We have exactly opposite brains. I think sometimes it leads us down a rabbit hole of suspicion with each other, but it also really helps expand my understanding of the game.

It's really the difference between "we all start with a PR and we discover what we were drawn" and "we get a PR out of the available ones each night". I think the second interpretation is much better to make decisions with.

[infangthief]

But I was voting for you, not MiX.

You know what, that's right. I had it in my head that you were voting for MiX after your first post about him, but you were voting for me

I should really pay better attention.

If you thought I was voting for MiX, what did you mean by OMGUS? Here:

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Do you have a reason to think infang would vote town in RVS as scum?

That's a good point. We should flip you so that way we can ask questions like this on D2

[infangthief]

It's really the difference between "we all start with a PR and we discover what we were drawn" and "we get a PR out of the available ones each night". I think the second interpretation is much better to make decisions with.

And by "available ones" you mean any role that hasn't hatched yet. This is a good clear way of describing it.

[infangthief]

Prod request: scolapasta

[jotheonah]

So if town in this game are green eggs, does that make the mafia ... ham?

[gkrieg13]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

I think this would be true if it meant something to the player actually revealing it.

[gkrieg13]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

I usually post them when I want to semi-randomly assign town to someone so that I can forget about them and focus on other people to find scum.

I don't get it. Semi-random doesn't seem to fit putting someone to the side and focusing on others to find scum.

It’s like giving someone a day pass. Saying you aren’t going to look at them until later.

So you announce in thread that they are town? Sorry about belaboring this, but what you are saying sounds strange to me.

I'm saying it happens all the time. <person> does something perceived as townie and <someone> else says "<person> gets a day pass", which I have understood to mean that <someone> is not going to consider voting for <person> that Day, and instead look elsewhere.

Same thing as announcing that person is town, at least how I see it.

[gkrieg13]

vote: joth

[faust]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

I think this would be true if it meant something to the player actually revealing it.

Well if it doesn't then it's just spam?

[faust]

Vote: Dylan

[gkrieg13]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

I think this would be true if it meant something to the player actually revealing it.

Well if it doesn't then it's just spam?

I mean, it's like MiX was saying, his reads can change at any time, so it doesn't really reveal very much.

[faust]

Alright so either it's a useful piece of information and then it's useful to scum, or it's not and then it's not useful to anyone. There is no sweet spot in the middle where it somehow becomes useful to town.

[jotheonah]

Alright so either it's a useful piece of information and then it's useful to scum, or it's not and then it's not useful to anyone. There is no sweet spot in the middle where it somehow becomes useful to town.

Look, town can either play as a bunch of individuals keeping everything as close to the vest as possible or as a team pooling information and insights in order to make better decisions as a group. Doing the latter surely gives scum more information, but it also allows town to, you know, play a team game as a team game, work together, learn from each other, and generally improve the quality of their guesses. Whether the opportunity for town collaboration outweighs the opportunities for scum sabotage is, sort of, the whole game.

But to say that you should never share information that might be useful to scum is to say that you should never share information, which is clearly absurd. Even if we decided we wanted to play this game as a bunch of non-collaborative individuals, then we would face the problem of there being no discussion from which to source the information that allows us to make an informed choice.

So, we disclose and discuss our reads.

[jotheonah]

Like, faust, imagine if you will the perfect mafia game played by a team of faust clones. What, exactly, would the discussion consist of. How would the fausts discover the scum!faust in their midst?

[MiX]

Like, faust, imagine if you will the perfect mafia game played by a team of faust clones. What, exactly, would the discussion consist of. How would the fausts discover the scum!faust in their midst?

faust would start this argument, built off another post faust made that said that a specific faust post was townie or scummy, except in a way only faust can understand what faust meant, as it was somewhat hidden. faust would then argue with faust about what faust meant and was thinking about when faust made that post, and we would overall reach the current position with the current discussion, except the starting post would be much more obscure and hard to follow (which would make deciphering it part of the discussion as well, which faust would use to get a read on faust).

Okay maybe I am trolling faust.

[scolapasta]

Vote count faust.1:

faust (4): faust, faust, faust, faust
faust (2): faust, faust
faust (1): faust
faust (1): faust

Not voting (3): faust, faust, faust

And yes, my first post after being prodded is a joke post. But I will have to find time later to catch up. I just skimmed the most recent, and thought this would be amusing (reminiscent of Being John Malkovich)

[infangthief]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

[MiX]

Vote count faust.1:

faust (4): faust, faust, faust, faust
faust (2): faust, faust
faust (1): faust
faust (1): faust

Not voting (3): faust, faust, faust

And yes, my first post after being prodded is a joke post. But I will have to find time later to catch up. I just skimmed the most recent, and thought this would be amusing (reminiscent of Being John Malkovich)

Solved The Game For You. Sucks we're all in speccy.

[faust]

Alright so either it's a useful piece of information and then it's useful to scum, or it's not and then it's not useful to anyone. There is no sweet spot in the middle where it somehow becomes useful to town.

Look, town can either play as a bunch of individuals keeping everything as close to the vest as possible or as a team pooling information and insights in order to make better decisions as a group. Doing the latter surely gives scum more information, but it also allows town to, you know, play a team game as a team game, work together, learn from each other, and generally improve the quality of their guesses. Whether the opportunity for town collaboration outweighs the opportunities for scum sabotage is, sort of, the whole game.

Ironically, what happens here is exactly opposite than in my post that you quoted: There absolutely is a sweet spot.

Sharing nothing is clearly bad for town. Sharing everything is better... but not very good either. If it were the best way to play, we should have a massclaim at the start of every game. You present this as a binary, but it's not.

But to say that you should never share information that might be useful to scum is to say that you should never share information, which is clearly absurd.

And maybe that's the reason noone has ever said it, including me. When you go back and actually read my posts, you will find that what I said was you should never share information that isn't useful to town. That is my assessment of MiX's Galzria read. There is absolutely a time when sharing townreads is good; like when there's a wagon on your townread or you are doing PoE. This is not that time.

And then there's a bunch of information that is somewhat useful to town, and somewhat useful to scum. I would say that for these you should weigh whether the benefit is bigger than the downside, and obviously different people may come to different conclusions. But it is my impression that most people around f.ds don't bother doing that evaluation at all.

[faust]

Like, faust, imagine if you will the perfect mafia game played by a team of faust clones. What, exactly, would the discussion consist of. How would the fausts discover the scum!faust in their midst?

Funny that you would say that, because actually how much one should share is also meta-dependent. If there's a lot of people not sharing much and the game is not progressing, then sharing information just to generate discussion becomes more and more reasonable. But as long as you guys are happy to overshare, there is no real need for me to do that.

[faust]

Vote count faust.1:

faust (4): faust, faust, faust, faust
faust (2): faust, faust
faust (1): faust
faust (1): faust

Not voting (3): faust, faust, faust

And yes, my first post after being prodded is a joke post. But I will have to find time later to catch up. I just skimmed the most recent, and thought this would be amusing (reminiscent of Being John Malkovich)

Solved The Game For You. Sucks we're all in speccy.

Hey that faust guy seems to have pretty good reads!

[WestCoastDidds]

I have faust and fang near the top, Joth and EFHW near the bottom

Situation normal then
Would you care to say why I'm near the top?

Faust is less engaged than normal, you are more engaged than usual. If it was situation normal, I’d have EFHW and gkrieg up there

[WestCoastDidds]

I have faust and fang near the top, Joth and EFHW near the bottom

You mean like, your top scumreads are
- the guy you've been scum with in your most recent (non-Bastard) game
- the guy who was most suspicious of you in your most recent (non-Bastard) game

That sure is... convenient.

Recency bias, for sure.

[WestCoastDidds]

Like, faust, imagine if you will the perfect mafia game played by a team of faust clones. What, exactly, would the discussion consist of. How would the fausts discover the scum!faust in their midst?

I dig this thought experiment

[MiX]

What do people think of Didds this game?

[WestCoastDidds]

Caught up… other thoughts
e is clever!
Joth is funny, and so is faust

[WestCoastDidds]

What do people think of Didds this game?

Not quite clever or funny, but a good egg!

[EFHW]

What do people think of Didds this game?

I think she might be scum. The last time she townread me, she was scum.

[Dylan32]

What do people think of Didds this game?

Not quite clever or funny, but a good egg!

Fact-checkers found this post to be mostly false, as it is both clever and mildly funny, thus rendering the statement incorrect.

[faust]

What do people think of Didds this game?

Well she seems willing to dig in a bit more this game, so I'm looking forward to seeing that.

[faust]

What do people think of Didds this game?

I think she might be scum. The last time she townread me, she was scum.

Well, she has been scum the last 2 games, so any statement that reads "the last time she did X, she was scum" is pretty likely to be true.

[gkrieg13]

I have faust and fang near the top, Joth and EFHW near the bottom

Situation normal then
Would you care to say why I'm near the top?

Faust is less engaged than normal, you are more engaged than usual. If it was situation normal, I’d have EFHW and gkrieg up there

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part. Are you saying that you usually townread EFHW and me, but not this game?

[gkrieg13]

What do people think of Didds this game?

I think she might be scum. The last time she townread me, she was scum.

But isn't she scum reading you this time?

[WestCoastDidds]

I have faust and fang near the top, Joth and EFHW near the bottom

Situation normal then
Would you care to say why I'm near the top?

Faust is less engaged than normal, you are more engaged than usual. If it was situation normal, I’d have EFHW and gkrieg up there

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part. Are you saying that you usually townread EFHW and me, but not this game?

No, normally I find you’re normal game okay scummy, but I’m not really doing that yet. So, you’re both at the chum end of the list

[WestCoastDidds]

I have faust and fang near the top, Joth and EFHW near the bottom

Situation normal then
Would you care to say why I'm near the top?

Faust is less engaged than normal, you are more engaged than usual. If it was situation normal, I’d have EFHW and gkrieg up there

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part. Are you saying that you usually townread EFHW and me, but not this game?

No, normally I find your normal game kind of  scummy, but I’m not really doing that yet. So, you’re both at the chum end of the list

Fixed it…stupid autocorrect

[WestCoastDidds]

What do people think of Didds this game?

Well she seems willing to dig in a bit more this game, so I'm looking forward to seeing that.

It will sure be more fun for me! The freedom of not being freaking scum again it’s so stressful to be careful, careful

[EFHW]

What do people think of Didds this game?

I think she might be scum. The last time she townread me, she was scum.

Well, she has been scum the last 2 games, so any statement that reads "the last time she did X, she was scum" is pretty likely to be true.

This is more like "the last time she did X, which she almost never does otherwise, she was scum."

[2.71828.....]

Caught up… other thoughts
e is clever!
Joth is funny, and so is faust

Ah, see. Didds being friendly. It's enough to warrant a D1 pass from me

[EFHW]

What do people think of Didds this game?

I think she might be scum. The last time she townread me, she was scum.

But isn't she scum reading you this time?

That's not how I read it. I guess she has clarified now, in any case.

[EFHW]

Caught up… other thoughts
e is clever!
Joth is funny, and so is faust

Ah, see. Didds being friendly. It's enough to warrant a D1 pass from me

Are you susceptible to being buddied? Someone calls me clever, I might never vote for them the rest of the game!

[scolapasta]

EFHW is clever. Can I have my game pass now?

[jotheonah]

What do people think of Didds this game?

You, faust, and Didds are all on the list of people I've given up trying to read effectively on day 1. Interestingly, you're all on there for different reasons.

[scolapasta]

What do people think of Didds this game?

You, faust, and Didds are all on the list of people I've given up trying to read effectively on day 1. Interestingly, you're all on there for different reasons.

Who have you historically read effectively D1?

[jotheonah]

What do people think of Didds this game?

You, faust, and Didds are all on the list of people I've given up trying to read effectively on day 1. Interestingly, you're all on there for different reasons.

Who have you historically read effectively D1?

That question would require some research to answer. But if the question is who haven't I given up on trying to read day 1, that's different.

[MiX]

Who haven't you given up on trying to read day 1, out of the players here?

[jotheonah]

Everyone but MiX, faust, and Didds.

By the way, that doesn't mean that you get Day 1 passes. Just that I'm gonna let someone else expend the energy of making a case.

[gkrieg13]

Caught up… other thoughts
e is clever!
Joth is funny, and so is faust

Ah, see. Didds being friendly. It's enough to warrant a D1 pass from me

Uh oh, faust is gonna get you. (for the record, I actually do agree with faust.)

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, are you gonna say why I cannot be scum? Has it been 24 hours?

[mathdude]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Please let me know when you've done this and what your findings are.

Haven't done it yet. Won't have time tonight. Hoping for tomorrow.

Can you tell everyone to stop posting to limit how much I need to catch up on?

[MiX]

MiX, are you gonna say why I cannot be scum? Has it been 24 hours?

It hasn't quite been 24 hours, but sure. I retract that statement. Basically, what I miss from Didds is That One Post where Didds goes around addressing specific people, and I thought that she would definitely remember to do that if she were scum.

But that's minor compared to what I found now, as I reread Didds. Doesn't she make bigger posts sometimes? I read her D1 in the most recent (bastard) game and it's extremely similar to this one in terms of how her posts look. It also doesn't have what I was looking for this game, so I think this all matches Didds being scum again.

[infangthief]

Someone calls me clever, I might never vote for them the rest of the game!

If Didds is scum then she'll have said that in the scum QT. If she's town then not voting for her is sound policy. So either way...

[gkrieg13]

vote: MiX

[MiX]

Someone calls me clever, I might never vote for them the rest of the game!

If Didds is scum then she'll have said that in the scum QT. If she's town then not voting for her is sound policy. So either way...

What? Why?

[infangthief]

Someone calls me clever, I might never vote for them the rest of the game!

If Didds is scum then she'll have said that in the scum QT. If she's town then not voting for her is sound policy. So either way...

What? Why?

The time I was scum with Didds it seemed she was rather in awe of EFHW. (Rightly so, of course.)

[infangthief]

e is cleverly avoiding answering my question.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, are you gonna say why I cannot be scum? Has it been 24 hours?

It hasn't quite been 24 hours, but sure. I retract that statement. Basically, what I miss from Didds is That One Post where Didds goes around addressing specific people, and I thought that she would definitely remember to do that if she were scum.

But that's minor compared to what I found now, as I reread Didds. Doesn't she make bigger posts sometimes? I read her D1 in the most recent (bastard) game and it's extremely similar to this one in terms of how her posts look. It also doesn't have what I was looking for this game, so I think this all matches Didds being scum again.

They will get bigger when I have something to say, although the first post of substance where I talked about trying to engage more/differently is not terse.

And as far as saying hi to everyone… there isn’t anyone that hasn’t been playing recently except e and he got a hi hi hi hi post after the hammer.

Also, when I am scum I am justifiably scared of faust and EFHW. Both of them are much, much better than I am. I also wary when I am town because they are the kind of scum that will just win.

Here a better question… where are Dylan and Swowl? I guess it’s early days, but I’d expect to see more of them, yeah?

[EFHW]

Someone calls me clever, I might never vote for them the rest of the game!

If Didds is scum then she'll have said that in the scum QT. If she's town then not voting for her is sound policy. So either way...

I guess I have to actually know about it. So I'll vote her even if she sings my praises in the scum qt.

[EFHW]

EFHW is clever. Can I have my game pass now?

You have to sound like you mean it, so no. I think I'm going to be pretty well immune to flattery for this game at least.

[EFHW]

What do people think of Didds this game?

You, faust, and Didds are all on the list of people I've given up trying to read effectively on day 1. Interestingly, you're all on there for different reasons.

Who have you historically read effectively D1?

Is that even possible? ADK has caught scum early day 1. I don't remember other instances, certainly not regular ones!

[EFHW]

e is cleverly avoiding answering my question.

So is scola (different question).

[MiX]

Someone calls me clever, I might never vote for them the rest of the game!

If Didds is scum then she'll have said that in the scum QT. If she's town then not voting for her is sound policy. So either way...

What? Why?

The time I was scum with Didds it seemed she was rather in awe of EFHW. (Rightly so, of course.)

Hmm, okay...it seemed like you were saying that Didds would say something in scum chat instead of in the thread. Here's a better question: why did you quote that EFHW line anyway? I don't understand the context of it.

[scolapasta]

EFHW is clever. Can I have my game pass now?

You have to sound like you mean it, so no. I think I'm going to be pretty well immune to flattery for this game at least.

Of course. I never actually expected to work - your strength of character is far too strong for that.

[scolapasta]

e is cleverly avoiding answering my question.

So is scola (different question).

In my case, I don't think I'm cleverly avoiding, as I'm not sure what question you're referring to.

[EFHW]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

[Galzria]

Vote: Dylan

This vote is lazy.

And completely in meta for you.

[scolapasta]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

Ah. Yes, i was aware. But a combination of busy and not knowing what to say made me not post. And then hadn't had s chance to catch up and post anything useful.

[Galzria]

I’ve read throughout today but haven’t had much of a chance to contribute. I’ll have time tomorrow though.

[Swowl]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

Unkown!MiX says town on Unkown!Galz
What information is being revealed here?

[faust]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

Unkown!MiX says town on Unkown!Galz
What information is being revealed here?

Well that's exactly the point isn't it? For scum neither of these are "unknown", so they get more information out of it to pick nightkills and potential misexiles.

[faust]

Vote: Dylan

This vote is lazy.

And completely in meta for you.

How much effort would you say went into your current vote?

[Galzria]

Vote: Dylan

This vote is lazy.

And completely in meta for you.

How much effort would you say went into your current vote?

More than went into yours.

[Swowl]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

Unkown!MiX says town on Unkown!Galz
What information is being revealed here?

Well that's exactly the point isn't it? For scum neither of these are "unknown", so they get more information out of it to pick nightkills and potential misexiles.

Right. But... day 1? 24 hours in?

[Galzria]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

Unkown!MiX says town on Unkown!Galz
What information is being revealed here?

Well that's exactly the point isn't it? For scum neither of these are "unknown", so they get more information out of it to pick nightkills and potential misexiles.

In the context that Swowl puts this, Faust is exactly correct. But if you have a read on MiX one way or another, then it’s not exactly an “unknown stating a town read on an unknown” … or rather, yes, it is, but you can still draw inference from that.

Further, neither MiX nor I will be unknown forever, which makes such statements, while lacking in substantial value now, significantly more valuable later on.

[Swowl]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

what information were you hoping to gain from this?

[faust]

Galzria is town.

I never get the purpose of these posts. Except to boast about how you were right later, I suppose.

Why does it annoy you?

I just dislike information being revealed for no reason. It helps scum more than it helps us.

Unkown!MiX says town on Unkown!Galz
What information is being revealed here?

Well that's exactly the point isn't it? For scum neither of these are "unknown", so they get more information out of it to pick nightkills and potential misexiles.

Right. But... day 1? 24 hours in?

Is this Groundhog Day mafia again and I am doomed to have the same argument over and over? Just look at what I said to gkrieg.

[Swowl]

Alright so either it's a useful piece of information and then it's useful to scum, or it's not and then it's not useful to anyone. There is no sweet spot in the middle where it somehow becomes useful to town.

assume you are talking about this post?
So then you think it is skummy to do what MiX did?

[Swowl]

that sounds horrible - let me re phrase...

Do you find it skumy when people do this?

[2.71828.....]

PPE: 10 because I started this post a while ago, got distracted, then came back to it

e is cleverly avoiding answering my question.

Nothing clever about it.

Question was about why I stated my vote was OMGUS?

Because you had just voted me.

In my head you had voted MiX and joined the "pile on MiX for no good reason" bandwagon. You then voted for me. I was looking for someone to vote for because voting is good and I thought the combo was a good reason

The follow up was just stream of conscious because I play (almost) exclusively from my phone so I state things as I remember them. And I did not remember things correctly.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: Dylan

This vote is lazy.

And completely in meta for you.

How much effort would you say went into your current vote?

More than went into yours.

That is verifiably false. Your vote included writing out 8 characters, faust's vote has 11 characters.

[faust]

Do you find it skumy when people do this?

I find it anti-town. Whether it's scummy depend on context and the individual's meta.

[infangthief]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

what information were you hoping to gain from this?

How intentional the lurking was.
Last two games I think scola has come under a lot of pressure early on for his first post or two, so I can understand him wanting to hold back a bit and not post early on, as either alignment. But to stay out of the game for a whole 24 hours...
I was kind of expecting a "oh, I forgot this had started" opening post, bit like your one.

[infangthief]

Ok, a case on e.

The follow up was just stream of conscious because I play (almost) exclusively from my phone so I state things as I remember them. And I did not remember things correctly.

The thing is, MiX's follow-up question was really nuanced and not even obviously directed at e. Like, it was directed at e because it was a reply to his OMGUS vote. Here it is again, including e's answer:

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Do you have a reason to think infang would vote town in RVS as scum?

That's a good point. We should flip you so that way we can ask questions like this on D2

So somehow e noticed that it was a question to him, but didn't notice that it was in the context of him voting me for OMGUS.
Ok, I can believe that - e's later confusion about whether I'd been voting for e or MiX seemed genuine.

But then the problem is that MiX's question was rather nuanced; it took me a fair amount of jumping through "other-people's-point-of-view" hoops in order to work out what relevance it had. And I think such hoop jumping would be needed by anyone.

Unless... unless that person is scum and knows alignments. Then there is an obvious, non-nuanced meaning, and allows e to answer it without needing to do hoop-jumping.
So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

And another thing. Isn't the natural, towny response to MiX's question "we should flip fang", rather than "we should flip [MiX]"?

[infangthief]

On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

[infangthief]

What do people think of Didds this game?

Town vibes.

[jotheonah]

On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

e is savvy enough to sidestep the wagon freakout tell.

[MiX]

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

[infangthief]

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

How's the wagon on you going, do you think?

[MiX]

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

How's the wagon on you going, do you think?

I forgot. I think joth's still voting me?

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, hey Galzy and Swowl!  How are things?

Any thoughts beyond tussling with faust?

[jotheonah]

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

How's the wagon on you going, do you think?

I forgot. I think joth's still voting me?

Not only am I not still voting for you, I never voted for you in the first place. Begrudging town points for not paying attention to the game.

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 1.2
Platypus and echidnas are the only mammals which lay eggs.

2.71828..... (4) : infangthief, Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
MiX (2) : EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
Dylan32 (1) : faust
 
Not voting (4) : mathdude, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
 
Currently, 2.71828..... is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at February 22, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

[2.71828.....]

On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

It takes 7 to exile, 4 votes is nothing

[scolapasta]

On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

It takes 7 to exile, 4 votes is nothing

Except in this case, it does. (Being pluralist)

[faust]

On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

It takes 7 to exile, 4 votes is nothing

Well we have plurality exiles, so 4 might just be enough.

[faust]

Oh I just noticed that I have a dentist's appointment at the time of the deadline 

[2.71828.....]

We also have 5 days left until the deadline

[2.71828.....]

Oh I just noticed that I have a dentist's appointment at the time of the deadline 

I have a meeting that starts an hour before the deadline so I may not be around either

[faust]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

[jotheonah]

e, what do you think about the wagon on you?

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

Dylan, what do you think about faust?

Didds, what do you think about MiX's case on you?

How is everyone enjoying being an egg? Do you find it constricting, or freeing?

[jotheonah]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

[MiX]

e, what do you think about the wagon on you?

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

Dylan, what do you think about faust?

Didds, what do you think about MiX's case on you?

How is everyone enjoying being an egg? Do you find it constricting, or freeing?

I would rather know if I'm a PR or not.

Cool, town!joth.

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

Vote: Dylan

[gkrieg13]

How is everyone enjoying being an egg? Do you find it constricting, or freeing?

Being inside an egg is possibly my worst phobia.

[gkrieg13]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Please let me know when you've done this and what your findings are.

Haven't done it yet. Won't have time tonight. Hoping for tomorrow.

Can you tell everyone to stop posting to limit how much I need to catch up on?

mathdude being jokey anti-town here. Excited to see his catch-up.

[faust]

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

It feels quite outdated. The last change to that wagon was what, over 100 posts ago, which is basically half the game. It's the sort of wagon with just enough justification so that people hang on to it so they can avoid further scumhunting.

[jotheonah]

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

It feels quite outdated. The last change to that wagon was what, over 100 posts ago, which is basically half the game. It's the sort of wagon with just enough justification so that people hang on to it so they can avoid further scumhunting.

This is pretty silly. People don't become less scummy because time goes by.

[infangthief]

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

It feels quite outdated. The last change to that wagon was what, over 100 posts ago, which is basically half the game. It's the sort of wagon with just enough justification so that people hang on to it so they can avoid further scumhunting.

What do you think about e?

[faust]

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

It feels quite outdated. The last change to that wagon was what, over 100 posts ago, which is basically half the game. It's the sort of wagon with just enough justification so that people hang on to it so they can avoid further scumhunting.

What do you think about e?

I think I don't want to vote for him right now.

[faust]

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

It feels quite outdated. The last change to that wagon was what, over 100 posts ago, which is basically half the game. It's the sort of wagon with just enough justification so that people hang on to it so they can avoid further scumhunting.

This is pretty silly. People don't become less scummy because time goes by.

Well that's certainly an opinion. I would say that if a player has behaved scummily for time T and then hasn't behaved scummily between times T and 2T, they are less scummy at time 2T then they were at time T. But maybe you wish to enlighten me about the recent scummy things that e has done.

[scolapasta]

Being an egg is stressful; at any point I feel like I'm going to crack.

But seriously, I would prefer to know if I'm a PR already, to know how "valuable" I am, and possible to help guide how I read others.

[mathdude]

Ok, I'm back.  School went online today (something about bad weather, which I'm not really seeing!), so it was a little less busy than usual.  I'll make multiple posts, quoting things that stood out to me, rather than a giant text-wall like I used to do.  I know these smaller posts look like spam, but make life a lot easier for those who want to reply to what I'm saying (cue gkrieg, MiX, probably e, and maybe a few others), to quote my posts, and especially for those on mobile.

I did enjoy the discussion between faust and joth - it was very enlightening, albeit not very alignment-indicative (pretty much meta for both).  I didn't find some of the responses (I know there was one that said something like "I agree with faust, by the way") to be somewhat pointless and not very helpful, but what can you do.  It is good to know that we have different opinions of what is helpful to share and what is not - then as people are sharing different than what they normally would, we can start to parse out information about why.  All-in-all though, typically day-1 fluff, to look engaged, offer opinions, and yet not move the actual scum-hunting forward.  No town points and no scum points to anyone for that discussion.  (And yes, I realize this post of mine calling it unhelpful is just as unhelpful!)

[mathdude]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

Ah. Yes, i was aware. But a combination of busy and not knowing what to say made me not post. And then hadn't had s chance to catch up and post anything useful.

I’ve read throughout today but haven’t had much of a chance to contribute. I’ll have time tomorrow though.

Ok, I'm catching up.  Time for a few others to do so!

[mathdude]

Do you find it skumy when people do this?

I find it anti-town. Whether it's scummy depend on context and the individual's meta.

Definitely a huge distinction between just being anti-town and actually being scummy (I used to think they were the same).  The problem is, some people's opinion of that distinction is completely different.  And yes, also dependent on context and individual meeta.
 Take MiX's statement (which I remember reading, but didn't flag for quoting) - saying something along the lines of "I don't know if what I said helps scum or not, and I don't really care" - I'd say definitely anti-town, people may say his meta would say non-alignment-indicative, but I would say it's meta for him to think that but scummy for him to actually say it.

Regardless, +1 point for faust for this post.  Not a scum point and not a town point.  Just a good point.

[mathdude]

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

How's the wagon on you going, do you think?

I forgot. I think joth's still voting me?

Not only am I not still voting for you, I never voted for you in the first place. Begrudging town points for not paying attention to the game.

I disagree with the "begrudging town points" - I'd give him tentative scum points.  See this comment about e earlier:

On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

e is savvy enough to sidestep the wagon freakout tell.

e is wise enough not to "fall" for a wagon.  MiX is wise enough to know that "not realizing the votes were where he thought they were" is something people give town-points for on D1.  I wouldn't put it past MiX to abuse this group meta to get town points - something he would be looking to do as scum, but wouldn't need to do as town.

[mathdude]

Oh I just noticed that I have a dentist's appointment at the time of the deadline 

I have a meeting that starts an hour before the deadline so I may not be around either

Anyone else want to make excuses for being busy at deadline that's still over 4 days away?

[EFHW]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

what information were you hoping to gain from this?

You have to ask fang. I was just noticing that scola hadn't answered fang's question about was he aware.

[mathdude]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Please let me know when you've done this and what your findings are.

Haven't done it yet. Won't have time tonight. Hoping for tomorrow.

Can you tell everyone to stop posting to limit how much I need to catch up on?

mathdude being jokey anti-town here. Excited to see his catch-up.

I'm curious as to why you say being jokey is anti-town.  Is that your default when you post as scum?  Do you think that's our group's meta?  Are you implying it's mine?  Obviously I don't have an outside perspective, but I feel I'm more comfortable posting whatever comes to mind as town (which for me tends to be a lot of sarcasm and jokey comments), and try to be more careful to stay out of the spotlight when I'm scum.

[mathdude]

Ok, a case on e.

The follow up was just stream of conscious because I play (almost) exclusively from my phone so I state things as I remember them. And I did not remember things correctly.

The thing is, MiX's follow-up question was really nuanced and not even obviously directed at e. Like, it was directed at e because it was a reply to his OMGUS vote. Here it is again, including e's answer:

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Do you have a reason to think infang would vote town in RVS as scum?

That's a good point. We should flip you so that way we can ask questions like this on D2

So somehow e noticed that it was a question to him, but didn't notice that it was in the context of him voting me for OMGUS.
Ok, I can believe that - e's later confusion about whether I'd been voting for e or MiX seemed genuine.

But then the problem is that MiX's question was rather nuanced; it took me a fair amount of jumping through "other-people's-point-of-view" hoops in order to work out what relevance it had. And I think such hoop jumping would be needed by anyone.

Unless... unless that person is scum and knows alignments. Then there is an obvious, non-nuanced meaning, and allows e to answer it without needing to do hoop-jumping.
So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

And another thing. Isn't the natural, towny response to MiX's question "we should flip fang", rather than "we should flip [MiX]"?

Sounds like a few layers of WIFOM going on here.  In general, the response to such a question would probably be "flip fang".  But given recent history with MiX in some games, seems flipping MiX regardless has become a viable option sometimes!  And yes, he's been known to advocate for his own exile to reveal information about people's reads.

[mathdude]

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

[EFHW]

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

Can you say what initially had you leaning towards scum!e and now has you thinking scum!MiX? Or even what led you to thinking they aren't both scum or both town?

[mathdude]

So what are my current reads?  Fairly weak, but at least a starting point.

MiX - scummy (though if we flip e and find scum, then I'd say MiX would look very townie)
Swowl - typical for what I remember from the last game or two, but I'd like to see more of his thoughts
Galzria - nothing stands out, waiting for his promised "contribution" today
EFHW - nothing stands out
scolapasta - post more!
WestCoastDidds - I was getting slight scum-vibes with a bit of her interaction with MiX
jotheonah - seems townie for now
faust - seems townie for now
gkrieg13 - his numerous small posts have had very little useful content, so I'm leaning scummy here
infangthief - seems townie for now
Dylan32 - need more info, no current read
2.71828..... - seems scummy, but not if MiX is scum

I'd vote e or MiX at this point, but I think we're more likely to flip scum with MiX.  I would also consider voting Didds.  And if gkrieg doesn't offer more useful opinions, I'd vote there as another option.

So for now...
Vote: MiX

[2.71828.....]

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

[mathdude]

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

Can you say what initially had you leaning towards scum!e and now has you thinking scum!MiX? Or even what led you to thinking they aren't both scum or both town?

I cannot say what initially had me leaning toward scum!e.  It was mobile-reading, and gut feeling.

Why do I say they're not both scum?  The interaction between them and their responses to other people just don't seem to be something I'd expect from them if they were both scum.  I don't have specifics, but it seemed like an either-or (not a "both").

I don't think I said they aren't both town.  They are my top 2 scum reads, individually.  But it's D1.  They could be T-vs-T and I'm completely wrong.

[mathdude]

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

You're entitled to your opinion.  I think you're wrong.  Those are my thoughts.  So I posted them.

[Swowl]

Do you find it skumy when people do this?

I find it anti-town. Whether it's scummy depend on context and the individual's meta.

ok fine. do you find it skummy when mix does this?

[Dylan32]

e, what do you think about the wagon on you?

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

Dylan, what do you think about faust?

Didds, what do you think about MiX's case on you?

How is everyone enjoying being an egg? Do you find it constricting, or freeing?

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

[Swowl]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

what information were you hoping to gain from this?

You have to ask fang. I was just noticing that scola hadn't answered fang's question about was he aware.

woops! good point.

Fang?

[EFHW]

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

This

[EFHW]

vote: mathdude

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, what do you think about MiX's case on you?

How is everyone enjoying being an egg? Do you find it constricting, or freeing?

It is not good.

Cozy eggs in a nest, what is not to like?

[WestCoastDidds]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

I agree. It’s not like he’s around to question it….

Vote: Dylan

[WestCoastDidds]

Ah, PPEd myself capping on Dylan. But still, I think we need more.

Dylan, can you elaborate about faust. Or anything else you see going on?

[Dylan32]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

I agree. It’s not like he’s around to question it….

Vote: Dylan

I would be really offended by this if I had had time to post more than the two times I have over the last few days. Unfortunately, I haven't, even though I have been mostly keeping up.

Ah, PPEd myself capping on Dylan. But still, I think we need more.

Dylan, can you elaborate about faust. Or anything else you see going on?

If faust wants to insist that he's right about e's wagon being stale, his vote on me was only 14 posts after the last vote for e, so his opinion is pretty stale too and he might as well move on. What's that faust, it's a good fresh read you say? Ok, then I still like the e wagon too. Outside of that, no I won't elaborate on faust, and scum points for prying when I specifically said I wouldn't right now.

Outside of that, I haven't had a lot that stuck out as alignment indicative. There's been a lot of meta argument about posting reads (why do we have some version of this convo every game? This is like the worst part of our meta here) and a lot of "What do you think about *x person here*?" before anybody really did much of anything. I went through yesterday and tried ISOing like 7 people, and I got a bunch of nothingburger. Posts for the sake of posting rather than anything of substance. I don't like creating filler posts, so I haven't said much, even though I am keeping up.

[MiX]

Unvote

Who did I want to vote before? I forgot now...well, when in doubt, vote scum.

Vote: Didds

[WestCoastDidds]

Unvote

Who did I want to vote before? I forgot now...well, when in doubt, vote scum.

Vote: Didds

Pfftt, you can do better than that

[EFHW]

I'm liking Dylan's post.

[Swowl]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

Why?

[Swowl]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

I agree. It’s not like he’s around to question it….

Vote: Dylan

kind of unlike you to take the LAL approach. You have a reason outside of that?

[Swowl]

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

is this in response to Math's read list post?

[Swowl]

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

is this in response to Math's read list post?

disregard. obv it is

[Swowl]

Vote: Math

[faust]

Do you find it skumy when people do this?

I find it anti-town. Whether it's scummy depend on context and the individual's meta.

ok fine. do you find it skummy when mix does this?

No.

[faust]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

Why?

Because he's scum. And also a lurker. It's the perfect combination!

[faust]

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

[infangthief]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

what information were you hoping to gain from this?

You have to ask fang. I was just noticing that scola hadn't answered fang's question about was he aware.

woops! good point.

Fang?

An Interesting Situation has developed.

Swowl, I feel you do this a lot - asking what was the point of asking a question. And it is a good attitude to have. But this time I am going to throw it back at you. Why do you think I asked scola that? Did it occur to you to ask him?

[infangthief]

So, mathdude, eh?

I disagree with pretty much everything he has said the last couple of pages. Actually, the whole game (which is pretty much the same thing).

Shall I comment on every single thing? Probably that would be mostly noise.
Shall I put down a vote? Maybe. Some of it is scummy stuff, some of it is just disagreement. But how can it happen on pretty much everything?? I know his background is playing mafia elsewhere, which supposedly explains some of this.
I'm trying to remember dwarf mafia (the only other game I played with him). I think there was some of this going on. And he turned out to be scum.
Maybe I should go and find a game where he was town and read that, see if it triggers all the same frustration.

[infangthief]

Ok, useful question. mathdude, do you still play mafia elsewhere (online or in person), or is f.ds the only place you play these days?

[infangthief]

In the meantime, vote: faust

And I understand how easy it will be to go back to voting e.

[jotheonah]

At this point I refuse to leave the e wagon on principal. But I'm coming around to scum!Didds.

[WestCoastDidds]

At this point I refuse to leave the e wagon on principal. But I'm coming around to scum!Didds.

But Joth, I don't want you to be wrong! Then you will be sad.

I, on the other hand, am coming around to scum Math, but I am 100% okay with my current vote on dylan.

[jotheonah]

If you are scum, I'm sorry for you! I know it's not your favorite and you are rolling it a lot lately! But that's neither here nor there.

[mathdude]

Alright, it seems this is becoming a big deal.  I recognize (and did recognize when I posted it) that many of you would disagree with what/how I was posting.  I realize that f.ds mafia doesn't like prompting/leading to the next exile.  It might be semantics, but I see a difference with saying "if we exile e today and he's town, then we need to exile MiX tomorrow because he's probably scum then"... and "I think it's quite likely that one of Mix and e are scum - I don't know which one, but I'm fairly sure one of them is".  Some of you seem to think that by saying the 2nd, I'm implying the 1st.  I disagree.

What I posted was my version of a reads list.  As an overall, many of you will post "this person is the scummiest, then this person, then this person... etc. and this is my chummiest", or "these 3 people I'm fairly sure are town, these 2 I think are, these 3 are probably scum, and I'm definitely sure this person is scum".  To me, people don't fit on a sliding scale like that, even D1.  Yes, I see MiX as scummy right now.  Yes, I see e as scummy.  They would probably be my top 2 (though Didds might have jumped ahead of e recently).  But I've got a gut feeling, based on their interactions, posts, and reads, that they cannot be scum together.  So I state that.

Would that be more useful for me to say D2 if we exile one and find out they're town?  Maybe.  But what if I don't make it through N1?  (I'm not counting on flipping as a hatched tree stump!)  Then, even though f.ds usually doesn't look at dead townie players' posts and reads (and I really think they should, and will continue to say that)... at least I've shared my opinions on people *and* my interpreted connections, which start becoming more useful D2.  I recognize that I have some polarizing views, and that might make me a D1 exile or a N1 kill, so I feel that getting my thoughts out there early is more helpful than taking them with me to the abyss (or wherever it is we get exiled to).

If you want to policy-exile me for saying "if not x, then y" on D1, I can't stop you.  But at some point, f.ds will realize that's not me being scummy.  That's just me.  And really, if I was scum trying to stay under the radar, knowing this would raise a flag, would I really say it?  (I know, WIFOM, but still.) 

Ok, useful question. mathdude, do you still play mafia elsewhere (online or in person), or is f.ds the only place you play these days?

I do play fairly regularly with a group of people still.  Often we're in person, but sometimes we use an online site to play virtually.

[infangthief]

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

When I said "I disagree with pretty much everything", those were things that were not included! It was everything else!

[MiX]

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

When I said "I disagree with pretty much everything", those were things that were not included! It was everything else!

Okay, then it would probably be helpful for you to explain exactly what you disagree with.

[infangthief]

Also, I have now skim-read some of your town games (Conference Call, Memento, Wizard of Oz, Groundhog Day) and it is interesting... but I won't share yet what I think on that.
You were scum in Among Us and Dwarfs, and you were also in Battlestar Galactica I and II. Anything I've missed, or any of those I should particularly read do you think?

PPE 1

[mathdude]

Also, I have now skim-read some of your town games (Conference Call, Memento, Wizard of Oz, Groundhog Day) and it is interesting... but I won't share yet what I think on that.
You were scum in Among Us and Dwarfs, and you were also in Battlestar Galactica I and II. Anything I've missed, or any of those I should particularly read do you think?

PPE 1

That sounds like a fairly comprehensive list. I don't track what I've all been in, what roles I had, or my win rate. But that list looks good.

The more recent games would be more relevant. Earlier games I was trying to learn f.ds meta and for in. More recently, I'm realizing "what's the point... play the game the way I feel comfortable"

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

When I said "I disagree with pretty much everything", those were things that were not included! It was everything else!

Okay, then it would probably be helpful for you to explain exactly what you disagree with.

Definitely this. I thought that was the main concern from people. But if there's other things you want addressed, either bring them up specifically, or expect your "I disagree with everything else" to get ignored.

[Dylan32]

Also, I have now skim-read some of your town games (Conference Call, Memento, Wizard of Oz, Groundhog Day) and it is interesting... but I won't share yet what I think on that.
You were scum in Among Us and Dwarfs, and you were also in Battlestar Galactica I and II. Anything I've missed, or any of those I should particularly read do you think?

PPE 1

That sounds like a fairly comprehensive list. I don't track what I've all been in, what roles I had, or my win rate. But that list looks good.

The more recent games would be more relevant. Earlier games I was trying to learn f.ds meta and for in. More recently, I'm realizing "what's the point... play the game the way I feel comfortable"

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

When I said "I disagree with pretty much everything", those were things that were not included! It was everything else!

Okay, then it would probably be helpful for you to explain exactly what you disagree with.

Definitely this. I thought that was the main concern from people. But if there's other things you want addressed, either bring them up specifically, or expect your "I disagree with everything else" to get ignored.

Yeah, being the D1 exile in your first several games probably helped form the "What's the point?" attitude lol. Sorry again.

Mathdude is town :p

[WestCoastDidds]

If you are scum, I'm sorry for you! I know it's not your favorite and you are rolling it a lot lately! But that's neither here nor there.

It was like three games in a row! I did not like it one bit. The green egg sigh of relief was audible.

[infangthief]

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

When I said "I disagree with pretty much everything", those were things that were not included! It was everything else!

Okay, then it would probably be helpful for you to explain exactly what you disagree with.

Definitely this. I thought that was the main concern from people. But if there's other things you want addressed, either bring them up specifically, or expect your "I disagree with everything else" to get ignored.

I don't want this to become a big thing, especially as the disagreement is probably just subjective in most cases. Like I'm not saying you should agree with me on these things.

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

1. Don't wait, wagon was only 2. (Or if you've really not read at all, don't come into the game intending to vote for a default person.)

I did enjoy the discussion between faust and joth - it was very enlightening, albeit not very alignment-indicative (pretty much meta for both).  I didn't find some of the responses (I know there was one that said something like "I agree with faust, by the way") to be somewhat pointless and not very helpful, but what can you do.  It is good to know that we have different opinions of what is helpful to share and what is not - then as people are sharing different than what they normally would, we can start to parse out information about why.  All-in-all though, typically day-1 fluff, to look engaged, offer opinions, and yet not move the actual scum-hunting forward.  No town points and no scum points to anyone for that discussion.  (And yes, I realize this post of mine calling it unhelpful is just as unhelpful!)

Three things here:
2. "Enlightening but NAI." So not enlightening. Long paragraph to come up with nothing.
3. The "I agree with faust, by the way" (by gkrieg) was actually an interesting moment, because it had seemed like gkrieg was arguing against faust.
4. If you think this was fluff to look engaged then award scum points!

#248 (rather long to quote)
5. I felt I disagreed with it when I first read it, but I don't know really. Maybe it's ok.

Can you tell everyone to stop posting to limit how much I need to catch up on?

mathdude being jokey anti-town here. Excited to see his catch-up.

I'm curious as to why you say being jokey is anti-town.  Is that your default when you post as scum?  Do you think that's our group's meta?  Are you implying it's mine?  Obviously I don't have an outside perspective, but I feel I'm more comfortable posting whatever comes to mind as town (which for me tends to be a lot of sarcasm and jokey comments), and try to be more careful to stay out of the spotlight when I'm scum.

6. gkrieg was saying that you were joking about being anti-town (wanting people to stop posting), not that being jokey is anti-town.

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

7. Taking my line completely out of context, like it was a read. Ok, that one's the most subjective because it's about my own post. Maybe no-one else got what I was on about either.

So there we go. I've numbered them and would say:
(3), (6) and (7) are just differences in understanding.
(1) and (4) are anti-town, unless they (along with (2) and (5)) are part of some hidden agenda to buddy faust and malign MiX, in which case they are scummy.

[jotheonah]

mathdude is moving up my scummy list. fang is moving up my townie list.

calling the scum team: Didds, e, and mathdude. BAM.

[2.71828.....]

In the meantime, vote: faust

And I understand how easy it will be to go back to voting e.

I feel like this is indicative of town!fang

[2.71828.....]

At this point I refuse to leave the e wagon on principal. But I'm coming around to scum!Didds.

I also feel as though this is indicative of town!joth

[2.71828.....]

What do people think of Didds this game?

I think she might be scum. The last time she townread me, she was scum.

But isn't she scum reading you this time?

That's not how I read it. I guess she has clarified now, in any case.

It is a good enough reason to not vote them D1!

[MiX]

e has good takes, I'm willing to sheep him on his non-e reads.

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

7. Taking my line completely out of context, like it was a read. Ok, that one's the most subjective because it's about my own post. Maybe no-one else got what I was on about either.

Sign me up for someone that did not understand your post then: I thought the post was made to justify the conclusion that math quoted.

[2.71828.....]

I do like my gkrieg vote more and more

[EFHW]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

[EFHW]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

Why?

Because he's scum. And also a lurker. It's the perfect combination!

So are you trying to persuade us or not? MiXian pronouncements don't do much.

[EFHW]

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

You're entitled to your opinion.  I think you're wrong.  Those are my thoughts.  So I posted them.

And those were his thoughts. Why so antagonistic?

[EFHW]

Ah, PPEd myself capping on Dylan. But still, I think we need more.

Dylan, can you elaborate about faust. Or anything else you see going on?

What's capping? Need more for what?

[EFHW]

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Do you have a reason to think infang would vote town in RVS as scum?

Rereading and I still can't figure out what this question means. It led to some interactions, so I'd like to know if MiX or someone can spell it out for me. Don't scum vote for town in RVS all the time?

[EFHW]

I do like my gkrieg vote more and more

Because lurking? Or still because of his RVS on MiX?

[2.71828.....]

I do like my gkrieg vote more and more

Because lurking? Or still because of his RVS on MiX?

That was just an initial gut reaction. His other posts + flying under the radar have strengthened the gut read

[infangthief]

Vote: infangthief

Because OMGUS is a pretty solid case at this point

Do you have a reason to think infang would vote town in RVS as scum?

Rereading and I still can't figure out what this question means. It led to some interactions, so I'd like to know if MiX or someone can spell it out for me. Don't scum vote for town in RVS all the time?

e never actually answered it, but he called it a "good point". Before I, or MiX, or anyone else explains, I would like e to give his best understanding of what it means.

[Swowl]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

what information were you hoping to gain from this?

You have to ask fang. I was just noticing that scola hadn't answered fang's question about was he aware.

woops! good point.

Fang?

An Interesting Situation has developed.

Swowl, I feel you do this a lot - asking what was the point of asking a question. And it is a good attitude to have. But this time I am going to throw it back at you. Why do you think I asked scola that? Did it occur to you to ask him?

Given there is a 0% chance your answer is the same as mine, I'll play along. But would still like your reasoning...

Your post just seemed like a fluff post. Could not really grasp what you would gain from asking it. Which is, to be fair, why I asked "what information you were hoping to gain from this".

[infangthief]

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

what information were you hoping to gain from this?

You have to ask fang. I was just noticing that scola hadn't answered fang's question about was he aware.

woops! good point.

Fang?

An Interesting Situation has developed.

Swowl, I feel you do this a lot - asking what was the point of asking a question. And it is a good attitude to have. But this time I am going to throw it back at you. Why do you think I asked scola that? Did it occur to you to ask him?

Given there is a 0% chance your answer is the same as mine, I'll play along. But would still like your reasoning...

Your post just seemed like a fluff post. Could not really grasp what you would gain from asking it. Which is, to be fair, why I asked "what information you were hoping to gain from this".

Well that fell flat.

You will find my reasoning in a secret hidden cache accessible only after solving lots of ridiculously hard puzzles, the first of which involves navigating to post #216 in this thread.
And I will add that I've given scola slight townpoints for such a frank admission of having nothing to say for 24 hours. Scum doesn't dare do that, do they?

[infangthief]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

Did I? Maybe I need to reread my criticism.

I'm not voting for him because I think e and faust are scummier.

[infangthief]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

Did I? Maybe I need to reread my criticism.

I'm not voting for him because I think e and faust are scummier.

Oh, do you mean my disagreement number (1)? That was a completely different stage of the day. That was mathdude's first post of the game saying he'd turned up and thought about voting for MiX but held back because other people were doing that already. And I was like, why hold back?

[infangthief]

Haven't heard anything from Galzria in forever. Scolapasta is prodable again also. What insights do you have?

[Swowl]

I do like my gkrieg vote more and more

Because lurking? Or still because of his RVS on MiX?

That was just an initial gut reaction. His other posts + flying under the radar have strengthened the gut read

What do you not like about their posts?
flying under the radar is pretty 101 GK from memory.

[EFHW]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

Did I? Maybe I need to reread my criticism.

I'm not voting for him because I think e and faust are scummier.

Can you elaborate?

[gkrieg13]

Sorry all, no time today, will try to catch up tomorrow.

[faust]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

Why?

Because he's scum. And also a lurker. It's the perfect combination!

So are you trying to persuade us or not? MiXian pronouncements don't do much.

I am mainly trying to get people to pay attention to Dylan so he's not being ignored in favor of the various drama going on.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ah, PPEd myself capping on Dylan. But still, I think we need more.

Dylan, can you elaborate about faust. Or anything else you see going on?

What's capping? Need more for what?

Hmmm… bagging on him. Low-key calling him out. Must be regional.

I meant we need to hear more from Dylan. I made a snide comment about him even not noticing the votes because he wasn’t around but had I read to the end of the thread I’d have seen that he posted. But it wasn’t enough to actually count as contributing in my book.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m going to Atlanta this weekend to visit my fam so I’m not sure how much I’ll be around. It’s a quick trip, though, so I’ll be back in TX on Sunday.

[scolapasta]

Haven't heard anything from Galzria in forever. Scolapasta is prodable again also. What insights do you have?

Am i? I'll see if I can post something tomorrow or later tonight.

[faust]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

[infangthief]

At this point I refuse to leave the e wagon on principal. But I'm coming around to scum!Didds.

Whose read or whose case is influencing you here?

[infangthief]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

[EFHW]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

[EFHW]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

Is it an important question?

[faust]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

Is it an important question?

I wouldn't ask it if I didn't think it important.

[jotheonah]

I'm V/LA this weekend, btw. probably back Monday, maybe Sunday night.

[mathdude]

I know we don't like policy exile for not being around. But Dylan, scola, and even gkrieg are doing pretty good so far at saying they are still here but not saying much. So rather than saying "let's exile one of them for being anti-town", I'll just say "you need to say more".

[infangthief]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

vote: mathdude

[mathdude]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

I'll respond to this tomorrow. Quick mobile posts this morning... more time tomorrow.
We're finally having our family Christmas today... got postponed 3 times from people being sick

[MiX]

I know we don't like policy exile for not being around. But Dylan, scola, and even gkrieg are doing pretty good so far at saying they are still here but not saying much. So rather than saying "let's exile one of them for being anti-town", I'll just say "you need to say more".

I don't think there's going to say more after they're exiled though.

We're finally having our family Christmas today... got postponed 3 times from people being sick

Wait, what?? That is a catastrophic chain of illness.

[Dylan32]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

Is it an important question?

I wouldn't ask it if I didn't think it important.

It's less I refused to answer, and more that I just missed the fact you asked after I had told Didds I wasn't going to elaborate. As to when, I would prefer not to give it away until such time as I catch scum!you with it or I need to explain it to prevent misexiling town!you. You are not currently under any sort of pressure or risk of being exiled, and I do not think you are scum, so I don't feel any need to give more detail on it.

[gkrieg13]

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

How's the wagon on you going, do you think?

I forgot. I think joth's still voting me?

Not only am I not still voting for you, I never voted for you in the first place. Begrudging town points for not paying attention to the game.

I disagree with the "begrudging town points" - I'd give him tentative scum points.  See this comment about e earlier:

On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

e is savvy enough to sidestep the wagon freakout tell.

e is wise enough not to "fall" for a wagon.  MiX is wise enough to know that "not realizing the votes were where he thought they were" is something people give town-points for on D1.  I wouldn't put it past MiX to abuse this group meta to get town points - something he would be looking to do as scum, but wouldn't need to do as town.

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

[gkrieg13]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Please let me know when you've done this and what your findings are.

Haven't done it yet. Won't have time tonight. Hoping for tomorrow.

Can you tell everyone to stop posting to limit how much I need to catch up on?

mathdude being jokey anti-town here. Excited to see his catch-up.

I'm curious as to why you say being jokey is anti-town.  Is that your default when you post as scum?  Do you think that's our group's meta?  Are you implying it's mine?  Obviously I don't have an outside perspective, but I feel I'm more comfortable posting whatever comes to mind as town (which for me tends to be a lot of sarcasm and jokey comments), and try to be more careful to stay out of the spotlight when I'm scum.

I think the hyphens should have carried through the whole phrase. I was saying that you were being jokey-anti-town, meaning that you were joking about being anti-town.

[gkrieg13]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Please let me know when you've done this and what your findings are.

Haven't done it yet. Won't have time tonight. Hoping for tomorrow.

Can you tell everyone to stop posting to limit how much I need to catch up on?

mathdude being jokey anti-town here. Excited to see his catch-up.

I'm curious as to why you say being jokey is anti-town.  Is that your default when you post as scum?  Do you think that's our group's meta?  Are you implying it's mine?  Obviously I don't have an outside perspective, but I feel I'm more comfortable posting whatever comes to mind as town (which for me tends to be a lot of sarcasm and jokey comments), and try to be more careful to stay out of the spotlight when I'm scum.

Also my experience is that you do not stay out of the spotlight as scum.

[gkrieg13]

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

Curious why you think this.

[MiX]

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Why do you care about math posts beyond this? This seems like a cut and dry strong townread.

[MiX]

(I'm not sure how to cut this massive quote and still leave the important parts. If anyone can, please tell me.)

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

what information were you hoping to gain from this?

You have to ask fang. I was just noticing that scola hadn't answered fang's question about was he aware.

woops! good point.

Fang?

An Interesting Situation has developed.

Swowl, I feel you do this a lot - asking what was the point of asking a question. And it is a good attitude to have. But this time I am going to throw it back at you. Why do you think I asked scola that? Did it occur to you to ask him?

Given there is a 0% chance your answer is the same as mine, I'll play along. But would still like your reasoning...

Your post just seemed like a fluff post. Could not really grasp what you would gain from asking it. Which is, to be fair, why I asked "what information you were hoping to gain from this".

Well that fell flat.

You will find my reasoning in a secret hidden cache accessible only after solving lots of ridiculously hard puzzles, the first of which involves navigating to post #216 in this thread.
And I will add that I've given scola slight townpoints for such a frank admission of having nothing to say for 24 hours. Scum doesn't dare do that, do they?

I have finally understood this post. Infang, what do you think of Swowl's alignment, given that he forgot that you answered his question?

[MiX]

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

7. Taking my line completely out of context, like it was a read. Ok, that one's the most subjective because it's about my own post. Maybe no-one else got what I was on about either.

Sign me up for someone that did not understand your post then: I thought the post was made to justify the conclusion that math quoted.

I didn't put a question mark, but this was a question. Infang, in what way did math take your quote out of context? From my perspective, that single line is a statement of your read of e and me at the time.

[gkrieg13]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

I agree. It’s not like he’s around to question it….

Vote: Dylan

kind of unlike you to take the LAL approach. You have a reason outside of that?

Would LAL even apply to Dylan anymore? I think he has posted quite a bit now.

[gkrieg13]

So, mathdude, eh?

I disagree with pretty much everything he has said the last couple of pages. Actually, the whole game (which is pretty much the same thing).

Shall I comment on every single thing? Probably that would be mostly noise.
Shall I put down a vote? Maybe. Some of it is scummy stuff, some of it is just disagreement. But how can it happen on pretty much everything?? I know his background is playing mafia elsewhere, which supposedly explains some of this.
I'm trying to remember dwarf mafia (the only other game I played with him). I think there was some of this going on. And he turned out to be scum.
Maybe I should go and find a game where he was town and read that, see if it triggers all the same frustration.

I also disagree with him on some points, but I don't see him very scummy from it.

[gkrieg13]

Alright, it seems this is becoming a big deal.  I recognize (and did recognize when I posted it) that many of you would disagree with what/how I was posting.  I realize that f.ds mafia doesn't like prompting/leading to the next exile.  It might be semantics, but I see a difference with saying "if we exile e today and he's town, then we need to exile MiX tomorrow because he's probably scum then"... and "I think it's quite likely that one of Mix and e are scum - I don't know which one, but I'm fairly sure one of them is".  Some of you seem to think that by saying the 2nd, I'm implying the 1st.  I disagree.

What I posted was my version of a reads list.  As an overall, many of you will post "this person is the scummiest, then this person, then this person... etc. and this is my chummiest", or "these 3 people I'm fairly sure are town, these 2 I think are, these 3 are probably scum, and I'm definitely sure this person is scum".  To me, people don't fit on a sliding scale like that, even D1.  Yes, I see MiX as scummy right now.  Yes, I see e as scummy.  They would probably be my top 2 (though Didds might have jumped ahead of e recently).  But I've got a gut feeling, based on their interactions, posts, and reads, that they cannot be scum together.  So I state that.

Would that be more useful for me to say D2 if we exile one and find out they're town?  Maybe.  But what if I don't make it through N1?  (I'm not counting on flipping as a hatched tree stump!)  Then, even though f.ds usually doesn't look at dead townie players' posts and reads (and I really think they should, and will continue to say that)... at least I've shared my opinions on people *and* my interpreted connections, which start becoming more useful D2.  I recognize that I have some polarizing views, and that might make me a D1 exile or a N1 kill, so I feel that getting my thoughts out there early is more helpful than taking them with me to the abyss (or wherever it is we get exiled to).

If you want to policy-exile me for saying "if not x, then y" on D1, I can't stop you.  But at some point, f.ds will realize that's not me being scummy.  That's just me.  And really, if I was scum trying to stay under the radar, knowing this would raise a flag, would I really say it?  (I know, WIFOM, but still.) 

Ok, useful question. mathdude, do you still play mafia elsewhere (online or in person), or is f.ds the only place you play these days?

I do play fairly regularly with a group of people still.  Often we're in person, but sometimes we use an online site to play virtually.

But now, this post I read pretty scummy. It comes off as being very aware of how he might be perceived and trying to stop any wagon momentum before it picks up. But, I think he misses the point of why he is getting votes.

[Swowl]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

Is it an important question?

I wouldn't ask it if I didn't think it important.

It's less I refused to answer, and more that I just missed the fact you asked after I had told Didds I wasn't going to elaborate. As to when, I would prefer not to give it away until such time as I catch scum!you with it or I need to explain it to prevent misexiling town!you. You are not currently under any sort of pressure or risk of being exiled, and I do not think you are scum, so I don't feel any need to give more detail on it.

OK but then why say all the stuff? Why not just say "I think faust is town" or, just not say anything... given, as you pointed out yourself, they are under no scrutiny.

[Swowl]

Alright, it seems this is becoming a big deal.  I recognize (and did recognize when I posted it) that many of you would disagree with what/how I was posting.  I realize that f.ds mafia doesn't like prompting/leading to the next exile.  It might be semantics, but I see a difference with saying "if we exile e today and he's town, then we need to exile MiX tomorrow because he's probably scum then"... and "I think it's quite likely that one of Mix and e are scum - I don't know which one, but I'm fairly sure one of them is".  Some of you seem to think that by saying the 2nd, I'm implying the 1st.  I disagree.

What I posted was my version of a reads list.  As an overall, many of you will post "this person is the scummiest, then this person, then this person... etc. and this is my chummiest", or "these 3 people I'm fairly sure are town, these 2 I think are, these 3 are probably scum, and I'm definitely sure this person is scum".  To me, people don't fit on a sliding scale like that, even D1.  Yes, I see MiX as scummy right now.  Yes, I see e as scummy.  They would probably be my top 2 (though Didds might have jumped ahead of e recently).  But I've got a gut feeling, based on their interactions, posts, and reads, that they cannot be scum together.  So I state that.

Would that be more useful for me to say D2 if we exile one and find out they're town?  Maybe.  But what if I don't make it through N1?  (I'm not counting on flipping as a hatched tree stump!)  Then, even though f.ds usually doesn't look at dead townie players' posts and reads (and I really think they should, and will continue to say that)... at least I've shared my opinions on people *and* my interpreted connections, which start becoming more useful D2.  I recognize that I have some polarizing views, and that might make me a D1 exile or a N1 kill, so I feel that getting my thoughts out there early is more helpful than taking them with me to the abyss (or wherever it is we get exiled to).

If you want to policy-exile me for saying "if not x, then y" on D1, I can't stop you.  But at some point, f.ds will realize that's not me being scummy.  That's just me.  And really, if I was scum trying to stay under the radar, knowing this would raise a flag, would I really say it?  (I know, WIFOM, but still.) 

Ok, useful question. mathdude, do you still play mafia elsewhere (online or in person), or is f.ds the only place you play these days?

I do play fairly regularly with a group of people still.  Often we're in person, but sometimes we use an online site to play virtually.

But now, this post I read pretty scummy. It comes off as being very aware of how he might be perceived and trying to stop any wagon momentum before it picks up. But, I think he misses the point of why he is getting votes.

This is in regard to fang, right? Just asking because you included the Math quote at the bottom.

[Swowl]

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Why do you care about math posts beyond this? This seems like a cut and dry strong townread.

you have a cut and dry town read on math, or you think this comes off as GK has a cut and dry town read on Math?

[infangthief]

I have finally understood this post. Infang, what do you think of Swowl's alignment, given that he forgot that you answered his question?

I feel like he didn't notice that I'd answered it, rather than forgot that I'd answered it. I don't think I get anything from it - people miss stuff all the time.

The interesting situation was that it provided a way for him and me to both answer his question without being influenced by each other's answers.

[infangthief]

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

7. Taking my line completely out of context, like it was a read. Ok, that one's the most subjective because it's about my own post. Maybe no-one else got what I was on about either.

Sign me up for someone that did not understand your post then: I thought the post was made to justify the conclusion that math quoted.

I didn't put a question mark, but this was a question. Infang, in what way did math take your quote out of context? From my perspective, that single line is a statement of your read of e and me at the time.

My line "e is scum and MiX is town" was the conclusion of a case on e, not about reads.
The case was that I thought e had revealed that he knew you were town.
(Separately from that case, I do read e as scum, and I haven't really tried to read you.)

[2.71828.....]

Gkrieg's read-and-reply regarding math feels.... Genuine? But I don't see it as townie.

Just feels like he was about to white knight math then decided to keep some shade going.

Not calling math scum, but just keeping the option alive

[faust]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

I agree. It’s not like he’s around to question it….

Vote: Dylan

kind of unlike you to take the LAL approach. You have a reason outside of that?

Would LAL even apply to Dylan anymore? I think he has posted quite a bit now.

He has 6 in-game posts.

[faust]

Speaking about lurkers, request prod on Galzria.

[infangthief]

Alright, it seems this is becoming a big deal.  I recognize (and did recognize when I posted it) that many of you would disagree with what/how I was posting.  I realize that f.ds mafia doesn't like prompting/leading to the next exile.  It might be semantics, but I see a difference with saying "if we exile e today and he's town, then we need to exile MiX tomorrow because he's probably scum then"... and "I think it's quite likely that one of Mix and e are scum - I don't know which one, but I'm fairly sure one of them is".  Some of you seem to think that by saying the 2nd, I'm implying the 1st.  I disagree.

What I posted was my version of a reads list.  As an overall, many of you will post "this person is the scummiest, then this person, then this person... etc. and this is my chummiest", or "these 3 people I'm fairly sure are town, these 2 I think are, these 3 are probably scum, and I'm definitely sure this person is scum".  To me, people don't fit on a sliding scale like that, even D1.  Yes, I see MiX as scummy right now.  Yes, I see e as scummy.  They would probably be my top 2 (though Didds might have jumped ahead of e recently).  But I've got a gut feeling, based on their interactions, posts, and reads, that they cannot be scum together.  So I state that.

Would that be more useful for me to say D2 if we exile one and find out they're town?  Maybe.  But what if I don't make it through N1?  (I'm not counting on flipping as a hatched tree stump!)  Then, even though f.ds usually doesn't look at dead townie players' posts and reads (and I really think they should, and will continue to say that)... at least I've shared my opinions on people *and* my interpreted connections, which start becoming more useful D2.  I recognize that I have some polarizing views, and that might make me a D1 exile or a N1 kill, so I feel that getting my thoughts out there early is more helpful than taking them with me to the abyss (or wherever it is we get exiled to).

If you want to policy-exile me for saying "if not x, then y" on D1, I can't stop you.  But at some point, f.ds will realize that's not me being scummy.  That's just me.  And really, if I was scum trying to stay under the radar, knowing this would raise a flag, would I really say it?  (I know, WIFOM, but still.) 

Ok, useful question. mathdude, do you still play mafia elsewhere (online or in person), or is f.ds the only place you play these days?

I do play fairly regularly with a group of people still.  Often we're in person, but sometimes we use an online site to play virtually.

But now, this post I read pretty scummy. It comes off as being very aware of how he might be perceived and trying to stop any wagon momentum before it picks up. But, I think he misses the point of why he is getting votes.

This is in regard to fang, right? Just asking because you included the Math quote at the bottom.

Swowl, I'm fairly sure gkrieg is talking about mathdude's scumminess here.

[infangthief]

Gkrieg's read-and-reply regarding math feels.... Genuine? But I don't see it as townie.

Just feels like he was about to white knight math then decided to keep some shade going.

Not calling math scum, but just keeping the option alive

Genuine?
White-knighting + shading?
Which one?

[infangthief]

Interesting to see how e doubled down on his gkrieg vote when the mathdude wagon started.

It is like mathdude and e are competing to see who can be scummiest.

[infangthief]

And I feel like it is ages since we've had a vote count.
vote count please

[2.71828.....]

Gkrieg's read-and-reply regarding math feels.... Genuine? But I don't see it as townie.

Just feels like he was about to white knight math then decided to keep some shade going.

Not calling math scum, but just keeping the option alive

Genuine?
White-knighting + shading?
Which one?

Genuine in the sense that he read the first post, reacted one way, then kept reading and reacted another way

[2.71828.....]

Interesting to see how e doubled down on his gkrieg vote when the mathdude wagon started.

It is like mathdude and e are competing to see who can be scummiest.

I will probably lose this one. I don't think math is all that scummy

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 1.3
Did you know? Vote counts now include linked posts!

2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (2) : faust, WestCoastDidds
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
 
Currently, 2.71828..... is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at February 22, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

Galzria has been prodded.

[faust]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

[Galzria]

Wow, yikes. Time slips away when life starts happening.

Today is the second (last) day of the meet Swowl & I are at. I’m busy timing & coaching until mid-afternoon, but I’ve set notifications for myself to make sure I get caught up here tonight once I’m home.

[EFHW]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

Except that is what everyone said last time math was scum.

[EFHW]

I've forgotten what the case on e is.

[faust]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

Except that is what everyone said last time math was scum.

Sure, but that doesn't make it less true.

[EFHW]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

Except that is what everyone said last time math was scum.

Sure, but that doesn't make it less true.

  By that reasoning no one can ever scumread him.

[gkrieg13]

I like EFHW's 6 posts in a row with questions.

[gkrieg13]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

I feel like this is not the kind of thing you know in advance.

[gkrieg13]

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Why do you care about math posts beyond this? This seems like a cut and dry strong townread.

I think I agree with you.

[infangthief]

6. If a majority exile is not reached by the Day's deadline, a plurality exile takes place. If there is a tie, the player who has had that number of votes for the longest is exiled.

Could you confirm if this is exactly what you mean?
Suppose A has 5 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves off A so that they've got 4 each. B gets exiled because they've been on 4 for longer?
Suppose A has 6 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves from A to B so that they've got 5 each. They both hit 5 votes at exactly the same moment. Who gets exiled?
In other games I've seen majority exile tiebreaking done in favour of the player who was most recently in the lead.

[MiX]

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Why do you care about math posts beyond this? This seems like a cut and dry strong townread.

you have a cut and dry town read on math, or you think this comes off as GK has a cut and dry town read on Math?

The latter.

I just ISO'd Swowl, wow he has only asked questions this entire game.

Swowl, can you state your conclusions after finding the answers of at least 2 of your questions? You can pick the questions, I just want to see something written from you that isn't a question.

Ooh, ooh, you can start with why you're voting math! That might help others too.

[J Reggie]

6. If a majority exile is not reached by the Day's deadline, a plurality exile takes place. If there is a tie, the player who has had that number of votes for the longest is exiled.

Could you confirm if this is exactly what you mean?
Suppose A has 5 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves off A so that they've got 4 each. B gets exiled because they've been on 4 for longer?
Suppose A has 6 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves from A to B so that they've got 5 each. They both hit 5 votes at exactly the same moment. Who gets exiled?
In other games I've seen majority exile tiebreaking done in favour of the player who was most recently in the lead.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. For your first example, your assumption is correct. For the second example, I will consider a player switching votes to have an implied unvote in between, so A would be exiled.

(I realized when setting up the vote count spreadsheet that the way you said would be simpler and more intuitive. I'm not changing it in the middle of the game though.)

[faust]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

Except that is what everyone said last time math was scum.

Sure, but that doesn't make it less true.

  By that reasoning no one can ever scumread him.

That's wrong. But I don't see anything that looks particularly scummy there.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m en route and getting caught up.

Swowl, weird that you think I’m not usually a fan of EAL (LAL), but that just means that you’re not paying super close attention to my D1s. Lurking is perhaps the only think I find overtly scummy. That is often where I vote.

But I will submit that an ISO on Dylan will reveal him to have done nothing overtly towny.

[mathdude]

1. Don't wait, wagon was only 2. (Or if you've really not read at all, don't come into the game intending to vote for a default person.)
2. "Enlightening but NAI." So not enlightening. Long paragraph to come up with nothing.
3. The "I agree with faust, by the way" (by gkrieg) was actually an interesting moment, because it had seemed like gkrieg was arguing against faust.
4. If you think this was fluff to look engaged then award scum points!
5. I felt I disagreed with it when I first read it, but I don't know really. Maybe it's ok.
6. gkrieg was saying that you were joking about being anti-town (wanting people to stop posting), not that being jokey is anti-town.
7. Taking my line completely out of context, like it was a read. Ok, that one's the most subjective because it's about my own post. Maybe no-one else got what I was on about either.

So there we go. I've numbered them and would say:
(3), (6) and (7) are just differences in understanding.
(1) and (4) are anti-town, unless they (along with (2) and (5)) are part of some hidden agenda to buddy faust and malign MiX, in which case they are scummy.

1. I wasn't holding off because the wagon was "already up to 2".  It was because there were already about 40 posts when I first read and posted, and it definitely seemed to be moving beyond RVS.  Look at past games, and you'll find I almost always post early and almost always vote MiX in RVS.  I just didn't feel that was appropriate here anymore.  But even through my brief mobile reading, my gut was saying vote him anyway, but I wanted to reread before I did that.  I did reread.  I did follow up with a vote for him.

2. NAI this game, yes.  Still enlightening, helping me see some individual thoughts, and insights into individual metas and the f.ds mafia meta in general.  I know my posts have maybe sounded like I care nothing about meta-play, and have just said "screw it, I'll play my way".  But I am still (and probably always will be) trying to find some reasonable balance between those two.

3. I had been mobile reading/skimming, and didn't pick up that gkrieg was arguing with faust, so I guess that's why it didn't stand out as important to me at the time.  Thanks for clarifying.

4. Fair enough point.  Maybe I should have.

5. *thumbs up!*

6. I misunderstood.  Makes sense now.  Thanks for clarifying.

7. Based on other replied since, I believe I wasn't the only one to misunderstand or take it out of context.  Oh well... moving on.

[mathdude]

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

You're entitled to your opinion.  I think you're wrong.  Those are my thoughts.  So I posted them.

And those were his thoughts. Why so antagonistic?

I didn't intend for it to come across antagonistic.  It was just meant to be in a lighter tone.  I guess I say such things to people IRL all the time, but it wouldn't come across that way to strangers online.

[mathdude]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

It was mostly a D1 gut read.  I felt like they were on different paths/priorities, but not an intentional "we need to not be connected" type of way.  And at the time I was making those initial thoughts, they seemed to be 2 of the most active.

Looking back now, I found 1 quote from each that probably influenced my reads as well.

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Those two seem to be commenting on the other to stay relevant, but not getting connected.

[mathdude]

We're finally having our family Christmas today... got postponed 3 times from people being sick

Wait, what?? That is a catastrophic chain of illness.

Yup, true story.  In my wife's family, there are 4 siblings, each with kids (many connected to daycare or similar).  So between her parents plus 4 other family units, 2 "units" were sick right at Christmas so we postponed once.  We tried again about 5 days later but one of those still had some illness and a new "unit" was sick.  We tried again part-way into January, but another family was sick then.  And with weekend work schedules (and some vacations), this was the next available weekend.  We had a blast, and it's over now... all grandkids (cousins) had a fun time, and all the parents got to play some fun games together too (like Dominion).

[mathdude]

(quote inside quote, etc.)

But now, this post I read pretty scummy. It comes off as being very aware of how he might be perceived and trying to stop any wagon momentum before it picks up. But, I think he misses the point of why he is getting votes.

I suspect most people are at least somewhat aware of how they are being perceived.  And I am still trying to figure out how not to get exiled D1 as town, without just lurking.  I could say very little, and just be here, and likely not raise flags.  But then why even play the game?  As soon as I say stuff, it seems to be taken (by some) as instantly looking scummy.  And I'm trying to learn from that each game.  I'm trying to adapt game-to-game, while still being me (and not just being what the group meta expects every player to post like... since there is no actual "normal" like this anyway).


Ok, that's the end of my long reply of posts for today.  If there's anything else still outstanding that someone wants me to reply to, please let me know.  Otherwise, let's move on.  Let's figure out which of MiX, e, Dylan, gkrieg, me, Didds, or whoever else... should we start honing in on.  I believe we're less than 35 hours away now, and it's a plurality exile.  We don't need to get 7 votes on someone, but we also don't have the fallback of "no exile" even if we did feel that was a good choice (which I agree with posts from earlier that it's probably not a good choice here).

From that list, I'd now lean most toward MiX or Didds for exile today.  Dylan would be my next choice.  e has moved more to the townie-side for me.  And I'm reading gkrieg as mostly townie too.

[Swowl]

The latter.
I just ISO'd Swowl, wow he has only asked questions this entire game.
Swowl, can you state your conclusions after finding the answers of at least 2 of your questions? You can pick the questions, I just want to see something written from you that isn't a question.
Ooh, ooh, you can start with why you're voting math! That might help others too.

The lots of questions thing is something I have been trying to implement in early games recently because I will be the first to admit - it is the weakest part of my game by a mile. It had not been working in recent games because mainly... people just refused to answer.

That being said, looking back, the majority of my questions did not have anything clever planned behind them to like "catch" someone - they were literally just for clarification and/or confirmation.

1. All the early questions I asked faust were pretty much just to see if I got the "refuse to answer" response.

2. Fang asking pasta if they realized the game has started I have already answered.

3. Everything else, I believe, I am either waiting for answer still on, or was just for clarification or confirmation.

And to the point of my vote on Math it was pretty much 100% regarding their reads list post:

1. They accredit MiX and E! earlier for being good enough players to either push off a D1 wagon or to control a the minds of the the town Day 1. But then they say that they both cannot be skum. That doesn't make sense to me. If they are good enough to do the adformentioned things, then they are good enough to gambit interaction as skum. Also, while they have since answered to it... not a huge fan of the whole "day 1 if someone is town then the other is skum" concept.

2. They say I am playing normal D1 as I normally do - which I am aware (ie. questions, general interaction, post volume day 1) that I am not.

3. Calls out WCD and GK as potentially skummy for their play, but their play lines up perfectly for me as normal.

4. Ends with isolating 2 players, MiX an E!, which, like above... I just find skummy this early.

[Swowl]

Swowl, I'm fairly sure gkrieg is talking about mathdude's scumminess here.

Re Reading, yeah I think you are right. I was just held up on the inclusion of the "play in real life" quote.

[Swowl]

I’m en route and getting caught up.

Swowl, weird that you think I’m not usually a fan of EAL (LAL), but that just means that you’re not paying super close attention to my D1s. Lurking is perhaps the only think I find overtly scummy. That is often where I vote.

I have no idea who I am getting mixed up in my head with you in regards to day 1 reads... but yeah... super quick skimmed a few games and obviously (as you know, bc you're you)... you are correct.
but now you got me on a tangent trying to figure out who it is I was mixing you up with, dammit

[faust]

Haven't heard anything from Galzria in forever. Scolapasta is prodable again also. What insights do you have?

Am i? I'll see if I can post something tomorrow or later tonight.

This did not happen - shocker.

Request prod on scola

[scolapasta]

Haven't heard anything from Galzria in forever. Scolapasta is prodable again also. What insights do you have?

Am i? I'll see if I can post something tomorrow or later tonight.

This did not happen - shocker.

Request prod on scola

You're right i didn't get to it. And i may not add it's a long holiday weekend here.

Regardless, i don't have much to say anyway, because i don't have time to read and it's d1 and so i don't find this very useful. Maybe after the fact, after we have a flip. Which I'm sure is why you want me to post.

[faust]

Haven't heard anything from Galzria in forever. Scolapasta is prodable again also. What insights do you have?

Am i? I'll see if I can post something tomorrow or later tonight.

This did not happen - shocker.

Request prod on scola

You're right i didn't get to it. And i may not add it's a long holiday weekend here.

Regardless, i don't have much to say anyway, because i don't have time to read and it's d1 and so i don't find this very useful. Maybe after the fact, after we have a flip. Which I'm sure is why you want me to post.

Has there ever been a post more strongly calling for a policy exile? Or maybe we can get a modkill.

6. Players may request prods on other players if they have not posted in 24 hours. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.

[faust]

To be clear I want you to post not so we have something to analyze, but because you signed up for a game and are now refusing to play it, and it makes the experience worse for everyone involved. I find your behaviour extremely rude.

[2.71828.....]

I am fine having a discussion about exiles for inactivity, but discussions about moderator intervention are best handled through direct message. Based on my experience as a mod who made a determination to mod-kill a player due to inactivity.

[2.71828.....]

I am not totally opposed to a lurker exile, not usually what I would do, but for a totally vanilla D1, I don't think it is the worst idea

[faust]

I am not totally opposed to a lurker exile, not usually what I would do, but for a totally vanilla D1, I don't think it is the worst idea

Why does whether it's vanilla have an impact on whether we should exile a lurker?

[MiX]

I think scola is scummy independent of his activity.

Vote: scola

Mostly his post about being an egg and cracking feels like exactly the type of posts I like to reply to when I'm busy as scum. As town I would then try to reply to a useful post.

[2.71828.....]

I am not totally opposed to a lurker exile, not usually what I would do, but for a totally vanilla D1, I don't think it is the worst idea

Why does whether it's vanilla have an impact on whether we should exile a lurker?

I guess my thought is that PRs might act differently. Like when I have a role that (in my head) makes me "too valuable to exile" I might play differently. And get myself in hot water for doing so.

[faust]

I think scola is scummy independent of his activity.

Vote: scola

Mostly his post about being an egg and cracking feels like exactly the type of posts I like to reply to when I'm busy as scum. As town I would then try to reply to a useful post.

He's not as scummy as Dylan. But certainly a better exile than either e or mathdude.

[faust]

I think scola is scummy independent of his activity.

Vote: scola

Mostly his post about being an egg and cracking feels like exactly the type of posts I like to reply to when I'm busy as scum. As town I would then try to reply to a useful post.

Mostly this case is unconvincing because when you compare to scola's D1 as scum in M136, it's completely different. He was actively trying to participate, making long posts etc. I have doubts that he would take this zero-effort approach as scum here.

[2.71828.....]

I will go ahead and join the

Vote: Dylan

wagon based on sheeping faust and for the sake of wagons. I do need to go back and iso Dylan, but don't have time right now.

[MiX]

I think scola is scummy independent of his activity.

Vote: scola

Mostly his post about being an egg and cracking feels like exactly the type of posts I like to reply to when I'm busy as scum. As town I would then try to reply to a useful post.

Mostly this case is unconvincing because when you compare to scola's D1 as scum in M136, it's completely different. He was actively trying to participate, making long posts etc. I have doubts that he would take this zero-effort approach as scum here.

Sure, but in that game he was active, right? Besides, if you think that, why are you pushing him?

[MiX]

Actually, here's a better question: why did you out that read on scola, faust? Shouldn't you have waited on that? That seems like the kind of thing you would try to not say.

[faust]

Actually, here's a better question: why did you out that read on scola, faust? Shouldn't you have waited on that? That seems like the kind of thing you would try to not say.

We're only just over 24 hours away from the deadline, it's a time where steering town away from misexiles has value.

[faust]

I think scola is scummy independent of his activity.

Vote: scola

Mostly his post about being an egg and cracking feels like exactly the type of posts I like to reply to when I'm busy as scum. As town I would then try to reply to a useful post.

Mostly this case is unconvincing because when you compare to scola's D1 as scum in M136, it's completely different. He was actively trying to participate, making long posts etc. I have doubts that he would take this zero-effort approach as scum here.

Sure, but in that game he was active, right? Besides, if you think that, why are you pushing him?

I hadn't given scola much thought until I noticed he was again missing. I went and looked at his last scum game when you voted for him to see if that exile was as good as Dylan. I concluded that it wasn't.

[MiX]

Alright.

Vote: Didds

[2.71828.....]

Alright.

Vote: Didds

Ah, yes. An even more useful session with 24 hours remaining.

[2.71828.....]

Useful wagon*

My swipe to text failed me

[MiX]

Well if I don't vote there then no one will consider it as an option, so...

[faust]

Well if I don't vote there then no one will consider it as an option, so...

Why should we consider it as an option?

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 1.4
Eggs start wiggling around by themselves a few days before hatching.

2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (3) : faust, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
 
Currently, 2.71828..... is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at February 22, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time. That's just under 24 hours away!

[mathdude]

Vote Count 1.2
Platypus and echidnas are the only mammals which lay eggs.

Anyone else reading the anecdotes in the vote counts? This one was great, because my daughter had just learned about these 2 exact animals in school the day before this was posted.

(VC1.3 tells us that vote counts now contain links).

[infangthief]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

It was mostly a D1 gut read.  I felt like they were on different paths/priorities, but not an intentional "we need to not be connected" type of way.  And at the time I was making those initial thoughts, they seemed to be 2 of the most active.

Looking back now, I found 1 quote from each that probably influenced my reads as well.

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Those two seem to be commenting on the other to stay relevant, but not getting connected.

Nothing here makes me want to move my vote away from you, sorry.

[mathdude]

Vote: Dylan

scola has also just jumped way up on my list of people I'd vote... not from what MiX said, but the brief interaction with faust.  If there's any traction there, I'll definitely join.

[infangthief]

Vote Count 1.2
Platypus and echidnas are the only mammals which lay eggs.

Anyone else reading the anecdotes in the vote counts? This one was great, because my daughter had just learned about these 2 exact animals in school the day before this was posted.

(VC1.3 tells us that vote counts now contain links).

Yes, I like them.

The links are useful. Eg we can click on "Dylan32" and go straight to his discord channel that says he is a red egg reason for voting for e, which was immediately followed by e responding to his reason. Dylan, would you like to share why you are voting for e at the moment?

PPE 1

[infangthief]

Alright.

Vote: Didds

Ah, yes. An even more useful session with 24 hours remaining.

e, why is it not useful for MiX to vote for Didds?

[jotheonah]

Vote: mathdude just to keep things interesting

[infangthief]

Vote: Dylan

scola has also just jumped way up on my list of people I'd vote... not from what MiX said, but the brief interaction with faust.  If there's any traction there, I'll definitely join.

Do you think Dylan is more likely to be scum than MiX?

PPE 1

[WestCoastDidds]

Fang, you’re Dylan strike through was hilarious.

Pasta is for sure but concerned about listing when he’s scum.

[infangthief]

Fang, you’re Dylan strike through was hilarious.

Pasta is for sure but concerned about listing when he’s scum.

Did you click on it to check?

Listing, as in leaning to one side a bit? Or making lists? Or listening? Concerned or not concerned?

[infangthief]

Vote: mathdude just to keep things interesting

Are you changing vote because you want to avoid me asking you the same thing as I asked Dylan?

Why have you been voting for e up until now?

[jotheonah]

Vote: mathdude just to keep things interesting

Are you changing vote because you want to avoid me asking you the same thing as I asked Dylan?

Why have you been voting for e up until now?

No, that’s silly.

Because he said something scummy. And I don’t like how faust tried to squash his wagon with no reason.

[MiX]

Is now the time to explains why you think math is scum, joth?

[gkrieg13]

MiX is still who I want to exile, but out of the current choices, I like math the least.

I won't be around for the deadline, it's too early for me.

vote: Dylan

X-1, I believe.

[jotheonah]

Is now the time to explains why you think math is scum, joth?

Actually, no. I’ll save it for day 2.

[jotheonah]

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.

[gkrieg13]

Oh wait, can't count. Only X-2.

[Dylan32]

I'm still voting e for the same reasons I was before. I haven't seen anyone that has risen to the same level of scummy to me than him.

Not useful case for why I'm town:
A) I play better as scum, and I clearly haven't posted enough to be considered to have played well this game. Check win-loss record in signature for evidence of this difference.
2) I generally try to make stronger cases more aggressively as scum than I do as town, because I feel more confident pushing lies or false narratives as scum than pushing cases or narratives that I'm more likely statistically to be wrong about than right about.
D) Pretty sure faust reads me wrong when I'm town way more than he reads me correctly, going way back. Never made a big deal about it, but I literally don't remember him ever really pushing me for an extended period of time when I've been scum, but it happens pretty much every game I'm town in.
42) I'm the easy path of least resistance exile that will give town the least information if you flip me today. This doesn't really speak to being town, but I can confidently say I've never intentionally lurked to avoid giving information as scum and I don't plan on it. (Let the WIFOM abound now that I've said it)

[2.71828.....]

Dylan, what do you think about gkrieg?

[2.71828.....]

Went back and iso'ed mathdude, getting all townie vibes

[EFHW]

All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Of the " 'RVS' pile on MiX " crew I find gkrieg the most scummy. Or is that just leftover bias from a long forgotten game?

Vote: gkrieg

These both after only 2 votes on MiX from faust and gkrieg. It seems more like seeing a wagon starting to build on a partner and trying to move momentum early enough to stop it rather than a townie reaction to a couple RVS votes.

Vote: e

This is Dylan's e case that he says he still agrees with. @Dylan, wouldn't it make more sense to vote for MiX if you think e is being partnery? Your e read seems based on an underlying MiX scum read.

[EFHW]

Also @Dylan, e has posted a bunch more since #91, when you voted him. What have you thought of those posts?

[infangthief]

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

How's the wagon on you going, do you think?

I forgot. I think joth's still voting me?

Not only am I not still voting for you, I never voted for you in the first place. Begrudging town points for not paying attention to the game.

I disagree with the "begrudging town points" - I'd give him tentative scum points.  See this comment about e earlier:

On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

e is savvy enough to sidestep the wagon freakout tell.

e is wise enough not to "fall" for a wagon.  MiX is wise enough to know that "not realizing the votes were where he thought they were" is something people give town-points for on D1.  I wouldn't put it past MiX to abuse this group meta to get town points - something he would be looking to do as scum, but wouldn't need to do as town.

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Does it? Are you being influenced by your own read on MiX?

The other way to look at it is if mathdude was determined to paint MiX as scum. And here we have: "Oh dear someone is giving MiX town points, I'd better point out the way in which this could be scummy." From reading the rest of mathdude's posts this game I do get the sense that he has an agenda like that.

[EFHW]

I, on the other hand, am coming around to scum Math, but I am 100% okay with my current vote on dylan.

Most people were moving away from scum!math. What was making you come around? Why the Dylan vote?

[EFHW]

e is wise enough not to "fall" for a wagon.  MiX is wise enough to know that "not realizing the votes were where he thought they were" is something people give town-points for on D1.  I wouldn't put it past MiX to abuse this group meta to get town points - something he would be looking to do as scum, but wouldn't need to do as town.

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Does it? Are you being influenced by your own read on MiX?

The other way to look at it is if mathdude was determined to paint MiX as scum. And here we have: "Oh dear someone is giving MiX town points, I'd better point out the way in which this could be scummy." From reading the rest of mathdude's posts this game I do get the sense that he has an agenda like that.

I have two reactions to this.
1. I agree with fang that this math post reads more like shade than scum-hunting.

2. @fang, can you substantiate your statement that math has an agenda to make MiX look scummy?

[faust]

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.

Do you have a reason for that?

[MiX]

I'm still voting e for the same reasons I was before. I haven't seen anyone that has risen to the same level of scummy to me than him.

Not useful case for why I'm town:
A) I play better as scum, and I clearly haven't posted enough to be considered to have played well this game. Check win-loss record in signature for evidence of this difference.
2) I generally try to make stronger cases more aggressively as scum than I do as town, because I feel more confident pushing lies or false narratives as scum than pushing cases or narratives that I'm more likely statistically to be wrong about than right about.
D) Pretty sure faust reads me wrong when I'm town way more than he reads me correctly, going way back. Never made a big deal about it, but I literally don't remember him ever really pushing me for an extended period of time when I've been scum, but it happens pretty much every game I'm town in.
42) I'm the easy path of least resistance exile that will give town the least information if you flip me today. This doesn't really speak to being town, but I can confidently say I've never intentionally lurked to avoid giving information as scum and I don't plan on it. (Let the WIFOM abound now that I've said it)

Weird post. If I'm to believe your self-meta, then you cannot post this as scum. I'm kinda believing right now, but it seems so non-Dylan that I can't help but want to kill you for it. Are you just scum way too often, such that my default of you is scum!Dylan?

Also, cool enumeration system.

[Dylan32]

I'm still voting e for the same reasons I was before. I haven't seen anyone that has risen to the same level of scummy to me than him.

Not useful case for why I'm town:
A) I play better as scum, and I clearly haven't posted enough to be considered to have played well this game. Check win-loss record in signature for evidence of this difference.
2) I generally try to make stronger cases more aggressively as scum than I do as town, because I feel more confident pushing lies or false narratives as scum than pushing cases or narratives that I'm more likely statistically to be wrong about than right about.
D) Pretty sure faust reads me wrong when I'm town way more than he reads me correctly, going way back. Never made a big deal about it, but I literally don't remember him ever really pushing me for an extended period of time when I've been scum, but it happens pretty much every game I'm town in.
42) I'm the easy path of least resistance exile that will give town the least information if you flip me today. This doesn't really speak to being town, but I can confidently say I've never intentionally lurked to avoid giving information as scum and I don't plan on it. (Let the WIFOM abound now that I've said it)

Weird post. If I'm to believe your self-meta, then you cannot post this as scum. I'm kinda believing right now, but it seems so non-Dylan that I can't help but want to kill you for it. Are you just scum way too often, such that my default of you is scum!Dylan?

Also, cool enumeration system.

In reverse chronological order (most recent to oldest), I was: 3rd party, scum, town, scum, town. That last game thread was posted in November of 2020, so I think that's far enough back to encompass anything that would be considered "recent."

[Dylan32]

Actually, I hadn't put the last two games in my signature yet, which was a town loss and a scum win. Updated now. M136 = town loss and RMM60 = scum win.

[Dylan32]

tl;dr - Yes, I am scum too often and you probably default to reading me as scum, because most people are town somewhat close to a ratio that you would expect, so their default meta is their town game and differences from that are scummy. For the last two years, what you've seen as my default is pretty much my scum meta.

[Dylan32]

I would be willing to vote for Swowl. Just ISO'd, and 15 posts are either entirely or mainly questions compared to only 9 posts that are purely observations, votes, or answers without an associated question, and a third of those were like "+1 good catch," "vote: somebody," and "disregard. obv it is." Could be wrong, but my memory of swowl is that there's more direct engagement and discussion than interrogation in their playstyle, so this feels scummy for them.

[Dylan32]

Also @Dylan, e has posted a bunch more since #91, when you voted him. What have you thought of those posts?

Not as scummy as the early posts, but not so towny that it moves the needle back to null.

[Dylan32]

Of the current wagons, I've got a pretty strong preference to exile e, (swowl would be here if there was a wagon), Didds next, and then MiX rather than mathdude, but MiX is null and I'm leaning slightly townie on mathdude, so I'd rather not exile either of them today.

[infangthief]

2. @fang, can you substantiate your statement that math has an agenda to make MiX look scummy?

Yeh, not sure. I'll have a go.

The e/MiX thing being either/or started as something mathdude had "worked out" (seemingly in contrast to what his gut was telling him about which of e and MiX was more likely to be scum).
But later it turned out that the either/or thing was a gut feeling also.
So I kind of think he is abusing the term "gut feeling" to let him say anything he wants to.

That's the best way I can describe why I think the MiX shading is an agenda.
Below are the supporting quotes.

Here's the quote for the either/or thing being "worked out":

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

And here's the quote for the either/or thing being a gut feeling:

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

It was mostly a D1 gut read.  I felt like they were on different paths/priorities, but not an intentional "we need to not be connected" type of way.  And at the time I was making those initial thoughts, they seemed to be 2 of the most active.

Looking back now, I found 1 quote from each that probably influenced my reads as well.

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Those two seem to be commenting on the other to stay relevant, but not getting connected.

(For this one, it is not absolutely clear whether the "It was mostly a D1 gut read" refers to the individual reads of e and MiX, or the either/or. But when he says that the MiX and e quotes "probably influenced" him, it becomes clear that he wants to say that the either/or was a "gut feeling".

[infangthief]

I am happy to switch back to e.

My main problem with the Dylan wagon is the people on it. I still think e and mathdude are scum and I am suspicious of faust also.

[EFHW]

Also @Dylan, e has posted a bunch more since #91, when you voted him. What have you thought of those posts?

Not as scummy as the early posts, but not so towny that it moves the needle back to null.

What about my other question, re: MiX scumread underlying the e scumread?

[infangthief]

For a few hours before deadline I'll be in a parallel universe (escape room). But I should be back for like an hour before deadline itself.

In case I don't make it out, are votes in parallel universes acceptable?

[WestCoastDidds]

Fang, you’re Dylan strike through was hilarious.

Pasta is for sure not concerned about posting when he’s scum.

Did you click on it to check?

Listing, as in leaning to one side a bit? Or making lists? Or listening? Concerned or not concerned?

Sheesh! That was an autocorrect disaster. FIFMyself

[WestCoastDidds]

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny. I agree that Swowl is not playing in quite his normal way. I get the sense that he and Galz are work-busy, but I’m still wary.

This is normally when I’d follow Mix, but he’s not cooperating with that plan at all.

Vote: Scola


Is the 9am deadline forum time? The “your time” is confusing for me.

[MiX]

Reread math, he's town. I was going to sheep him onto e, but he's townreading him now! math, why are you townreading e?

[MiX]

Dylan, what do you think about gkrieg?

[MiX]

Probably should've written this in the previous post, but just quoting a question emanates so much energy.

I understand why people don't want to flip e. On the other hand, e and math have the same alignment. So I'm willing to vote for e? I'm still dying on the Didds wagon though.

I'm (sorta) around for deadline, so it should be okay.

[J Reggie]

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny. I agree that Swowl is not playing in quite his normal way. I get the sense that he and Galz are work-busy, but I’m still wary.

This is normally when I’d follow Mix, but he’s not cooperating with that plan at all.

Vote: Scola


Is the 9am deadline forum time? The “your time” is confusing for me.

It's whatever your time is set to display as, regardless of time zone. If you never changed your time zone settings, it will be forum time.

[Swowl]

I would be willing to vote for Swowl. Just ISO'd, and 15 posts are either entirely or mainly questions compared to only 9 posts that are purely observations, votes, or answers without an associated question, and a third of those were like "+1 good catch," "vote: somebody," and "disregard. obv it is." Could be wrong, but my memory of swowl is that there's more direct engagement and discussion than interrogation in their playstyle, so this feels scummy for them.

you are late to the party on this one.
And also mis-remembering how I play (i.e. involvement level).

[Swowl]

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.

Hold on.

Its plurality exile and your vote switch took E! to 2 and brought Math up to 4. Prior they were tied at 3-3.
If you prefer E! over Math... why make the change?

[Swowl]

PSA - coal in stockings this year for everyone without a shuffleIT username. annoying.

[Swowl]

Reread math, he's town. *snip*

What are you seeing here that I am not?

#256 - Reads list post. Personally, I hate them day 1. Outside of that, mentioned other reasons specifically why I don't like it (those are opinions tbf, so whatever).

#258 - Important part = "I don't think I said they aren't both town.  They are my top 2 scum reads, individually.  But it's D1.  They could be T-vs-T and I'm completely wrong."
However, in the original post (which was literally only 2 posts earlier) Math says, quote "2.71828..... - seems scummy, but not if MiX is scum". Those are very contradicting statements.

#259 - I read as dismissive because they realize they messed up.

#287 - This on is a lot of words, and yes.. it could be seen as towny. However, the way I see it is that Math posted the reads list, then tried to sweep it under the rug, then the heat didn't go away so they came back with paragraphs of explanations. I would think Town would most likely respond in paragraphs, so to speak, prior to trying to be dismissive of the situation.

#374 and after - everything is either fluff or content that I believe (I know, bc he has pwned me previously) that math is capable of doing as skum. What they did not do is try to further anything on MiX or E!, and instead defaulted onto Dylan. To be clear, the defaulting onto Dylan is only slightly odd because they did not go for their other skum read with a wagon E!... but also could be self prez.

I am certainly less confident now than I was at the time that I placed the vote... but still my favorite option. How are the people that don't want Math anymore reading the posts differently than I am?

[Swowl]

just so it is said - DL is right when I wake up my time, so I am around for like 6-7 hours and then hopefully mobile just before end of day.

[jotheonah]

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.

Do you have a reason for that?

Yea. It’s because I like the other two wagons more.

[jotheonah]

I would be willing to vote for Swowl. Just ISO'd, and 15 posts are either entirely or mainly questions compared to only 9 posts that are purely observations, votes, or answers without an associated question, and a third of those were like "+1 good catch," "vote: somebody," and "disregard. obv it is." Could be wrong, but my memory of swowl is that there's more direct engagement and discussion than interrogation in their playstyle, so this feels scummy for them.

you are late to the party on this one.
And also mis-remembering how I play (i.e. involvement level).

Yeah what you described is pretty standard day 1 Swowl. And he gets better in subsequent days.

[EFHW]

I won't be on at deadline but will be able to check in in the morning.

[jotheonah]

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.

Hold on.

Its plurality exile and your vote switch took E! to 2 and brought Math up to 4. Prior they were tied at 3-3.
If you prefer E! over Math... why make the change?

So e was leading, then math voted for Dylan, putting Dylan in the lead. I preferred math to Dylan, and moving my vote made tied them at 4. Meanwhile, e really did seem stalled out (though it seems less so now? Idk)

In other words, staying on e didn’t make e a contender for the exile, but switching to math did make math a contender (though I don’t actually know how ties work with the plurality)

[mathdude]

Reread math, he's town. I was going to sheep him onto e, but he's townreading him now! math, why are you townreading e?

Good question.  I'm finding D1 I'm easily swayed by the amount of effort people put into trying to figure out something useful.  I'd like to say I'm not swayed by confirmation bias (by their reads on me, or by their reads on others too)... but I know that's likely not true, so that probably plays a part too.

e seems to be actively trying to figure stuff out the past couple days now... earlier D1, his posts seemed less useful to me.

And because of all this, and Dylan's recent flurry of activity, I'm not sure sure there either anymore.  But for now, my vote stays, even if right now just for self-preservation.

[mathdude]

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny. I agree that Swowl is not playing in quite his normal way. I get the sense that he and Galz are work-busy, but I’m still wary.

This is normally when I’d follow Mix, but he’s not cooperating with that plan at all.

Vote: Scola


Is the 9am deadline forum time? The “your time” is confusing for me.

I re-read scola... which didn't take much effort!  (other than skipping over his posts from other parts of the forum!)

So he is "actively" being inactive here.  He's said he doesn't have much to say, so he says nothing.  He says he'll look again later, then admits he didn't and/or still has nothing to contribute.  I believe once he said he's too busy (long weekend IIRC?), yet his recent posts show he's had plenty of time to post in other non-mafia games on the forum.

Is he scummy or is this normal for him D1?  I don't know... but he's definitely being anti-town here.  I don't like anti-town.  How has he slipped by so long?

Also, I'm teaching in the morning, starting 1 hour before deadline, so there's no chance I'll be online for the final hour.  But I should be around before that.

[Swowl]

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.

Hold on.

Its plurality exile and your vote switch took E! to 2 and brought Math up to 4. Prior they were tied at 3-3.
If you prefer E! over Math... why make the change?

So e was leading, then math voted for Dylan, putting Dylan in the lead. I preferred math to Dylan, and moving my vote made tied them at 4. Meanwhile, e really did seem stalled out (though it seems less so now? Idk)

In other words, staying on e didn’t make e a contender for the exile, but switching to math did make math a contender (though I don’t actually know how ties work with the plurality)

So then you just are just like sold on one or both of them being skum then?

[scolapasta]

To be clear I want you to post not so we have something to analyze, but because you signed up for a game and are now refusing to play it, and it makes the experience worse for everyone involved. I find your behaviour extremely rude.

So I'm sorry if something I did was found to be be bothersome? But extremely rude?  C'mon...

If it was just because I haven't posted much - it is what it is. Sometimes life interferes with things, and while I can find a minute here or there to read what others have posted, I' haven't had time to fully think about who may or may not be more scummy. And I do mean it when I say I don't really think in a game where no one knows there's role on D1, that there's any useful scum reading.

If you didn't like my reaction to your last post, sorry. I happened to wake up at 3am look at my phone see your post and nor want get prodded. So I typed something up. But really, it did feel like your had a little attitude towards me with:

This did not happen - shocker.

[scolapasta]

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny. I agree that Swowl is not playing in quite his normal way. I get the sense that he and Galz are work-busy, but I’m still wary.

This is normally when I’d follow Mix, but he’s not cooperating with that plan at all.

Vote: Scola


Is the 9am deadline forum time? The “your time” is confusing for me.

I re-read scola... which didn't take much effort!  (other than skipping over his posts from other parts of the forum!)

So he is "actively" being inactive here.  He's said he doesn't have much to say, so he says nothing.  He says he'll look again later, then admits he didn't and/or still has nothing to contribute.  I believe once he said he's too busy (long weekend IIRC?), yet his recent posts show he's had plenty of time to post in other non-mafia games on the forum.

Is he scummy or is this normal for him D1?  I don't know... but he's definitely being anti-town here.  I don't like anti-town.  How has he slipped by so long?

Also, I'm teaching in the morning, starting 1 hour before deadline, so there's no chance I'll be online for the final hour.  But I should be around before that.

This isn't really normal for my D1, but as explained in last post, have just not had time. these past few days. You mention plenty of time to post, but you'll also notice none if those are from last 3 days. So yeah, I did have some then, and yeah, I didn't post much here then either. (I would also say those other posts were in games which didn't require me to read through a lot and try to solve a mystery based on those, so even then, not really apples to apple).

[scolapasta]

Also, if D1 was normal vote, my vote would matter more, but since it's plurality, we will get an exile. So my lurking isn't really hurting town. i.e those who have described this as anti town are not being fair.

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 1.5
A chef's hat has a number of pleats equal to the number of ways that chef can cook eggs.

mathdude (4) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief, jotheonah
Dylan32 (4) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
2.71828..... (2) : Galzria, Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
scolapasta (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
 
Currently, mathdude is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends February 22, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time (the time in the upper right hand corner of your page). That's just under 8½ hours from now.

[Swowl]

Also, if D1 was normal vote, my vote would matter more, but since it's plurality, we will get an exile. So my lurking isn't really hurting town. i.e those who have described this as anti town are not being fair.

your lurking hurts town because you don't generate any content or interactions for us to look back on later.

[Swowl]

mix - why are you on didds? did I miss something?

[faust]

Wow, yikes. Time slips away when life starts happening.

Today is the second (last) day of the meet Swowl & I are at. I’m busy timing & coaching until mid-afternoon, but I’ve set notifications for myself to make sure I get caught up here tonight once I’m home.

This is Galria's last post... it seems those noticifications did not work out?

Request prod on Galzria

[faust]

So I'm sorry if something I did was found to be be bothersome? But extremely rude?  C'mon...

Yes, extremely rude. You are constantly breaking the rules of the game.

[faust]

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny.

Why do you think so?

[Galzria]

vote: mathdude

[faust]

vote: mathdude

Thank you for this very hight effort, totally not lazy vote!

[MiX]

Vote: e

Don't care about the math or Dylan wagons. I'll get Didds tomorrow.

[MiX]

So I'm sorry if something I did was found to be be bothersome? But extremely rude?  C'mon...

Yes, extremely rude. You are constantly breaking the rules of the game.

He's posting once every day, right? If so, then it's fine. Although I doubt he's done even that...

[faust]

So I'm sorry if something I did was found to be be bothersome? But extremely rude?  C'mon...

Yes, extremely rude. You are constantly breaking the rules of the game.

He's posting once every day, right? If so, then it's fine. Although I doubt he's done even that...

I think he was in proddable range 3 times so far. Also I if it were as you say I would not agree that "it's fine". But that discussion can happen somewhere else.

[faust]

I would love to hear any arguments for why Dylan is town. So far all I've seen is like, concerns about wagon composition, or finding someone else scummier, and neither of those explains the vehemence of the opposition to me.

[infangthief]

And I do mean it when I say I don't really think in a game where no one knows there's role on D1, that there's any useful scum reading.

You've said this a couple of times now and I don't get it. Does having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? Does other people having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? How do you get on in a normal mafia game when you are VT?

Also, if D1 was normal vote, my vote would matter more, but since it's plurality, we will get an exile. So my lurking isn't really hurting town. i.e those who have described this as anti town are not being fair.

Swowl's already called you out for this, but it is worth doing again. You seem to think that the goal of day 1 is to get an exile. Should we have just asked J Reggie if maybe he could have removed a player before the game started, and begun with N1 instead of D1? Better?

[MiX]

And I do mean it when I say I don't really think in a game where no one knows there's role on D1, that there's any useful scum reading.

You've said this a couple of times now and I don't get it. Does having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? Does other people having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? How do you get on in a normal mafia game when you are VT?

Also, if D1 was normal vote, my vote would matter more, but since it's plurality, we will get an exile. So my lurking isn't really hurting town. i.e those who have described this as anti town are not being fair.

Swowl's already called you out for this, but it is worth doing again. You seem to think that the goal of day 1 is to get an exile. Should we have just asked J Reggie if maybe he could have removed a player before the game started, and begun with N1 instead of D1? Better?

I mean sure I'll take that offer, if he rands between scum too.

[faust]

And I do mean it when I say I don't really think in a game where no one knows there's role on D1, that there's any useful scum reading.

You've said this a couple of times now and I don't get it. Does having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? Does other people having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? How do you get on in a normal mafia game when you are VT?

Also, if D1 was normal vote, my vote would matter more, but since it's plurality, we will get an exile. So my lurking isn't really hurting town. i.e those who have described this as anti town are not being fair.

Swowl's already called you out for this, but it is worth doing again. You seem to think that the goal of day 1 is to get an exile. Should we have just asked J Reggie if maybe he could have removed a player before the game started, and begun with N1 instead of D1? Better?

I mean sure I'll take that offer, if he rands between scum too.

Cool we can just continue randomizing and we won't have to play a game at all!

[infangthief]

And I do mean it when I say I don't really think in a game where no one knows there's role on D1, that there's any useful scum reading.

You've said this a couple of times now and I don't get it. Does having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? Does other people having a PR help you hunt for scum D1? How do you get on in a normal mafia game when you are VT?

Also, if D1 was normal vote, my vote would matter more, but since it's plurality, we will get an exile. So my lurking isn't really hurting town. i.e those who have described this as anti town are not being fair.

Swowl's already called you out for this, but it is worth doing again. You seem to think that the goal of day 1 is to get an exile. Should we have just asked J Reggie if maybe he could have removed a player before the game started, and begun with N1 instead of D1? Better?

I mean sure I'll take that offer, if he rands between scum too.

Ah, what a chance we missed. We could have all not voted for anyone all day, would that have forced the mod to randomise the exile?

[infangthief]

I would love to hear any arguments for why Dylan is town. So far all I've seen is like, concerns about wagon composition, or finding someone else scummier, and neither of those explains the vehemence of the opposition to me.

Who do you think is vehemently opposing it?

[faust]

I would love to hear any arguments for why Dylan is town. So far all I've seen is like, concerns about wagon composition, or finding someone else scummier, and neither of those explains the vehemence of the opposition to me.

Who do you think is vehemently opposing it?

You, joth, MiX mainly. There are a couple of other people on the mathdude wagon that haven't really given an opinion on Dylan - EFHW, Galzria, Swowl.

[jotheonah]

Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.

Me being vehemently opposed to something, apparently.

[jotheonah]

I would love to hear any arguments for why Dylan is town. So far all I've seen is like, concerns about wagon composition, or finding someone else scummier, and neither of those explains the vehemence of the opposition to me.

I would love to hear any arguments for why he's scum!

[jotheonah]

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.

Hold on.

Its plurality exile and your vote switch took E! to 2 and brought Math up to 4. Prior they were tied at 3-3.
If you prefer E! over Math... why make the change?

So e was leading, then math voted for Dylan, putting Dylan in the lead. I preferred math to Dylan, and moving my vote made tied them at 4. Meanwhile, e really did seem stalled out (though it seems less so now? Idk)

In other words, staying on e didn’t make e a contender for the exile, but switching to math did make math a contender (though I don’t actually know how ties work with the plurality)

So then you just are just like sold on one or both of them being skum then?

No? It's day 1. I'm not sold on anybody being scum. But I'm more sold on them then on Dylan.

idk why anyone's acting like they're more than like 35% sure of anything at this stage.

[jotheonah]

Vote: e

[infangthief]

Vote count 1.fang

Dylan32 (4) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
mathdude (4) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief, Galzria
2.71828..... (3) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah
scolapasta (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
 
Currently, Dylan is set to be exiled. (joth leaving mathdude puts mathdude and Dylan on 4 each, with Dylan having been on 4 for longer.)

[infangthief]

vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)

[infangthief]

EFHW (can't remember if you said you'd be around again before deadline),
When you asked me why I wasn't voting for mathdude, why did you not ask e also? After all, it was e's post that you quoted immediately before you placed your vote on mathdude.

[EFHW]

I would love to hear any arguments for why Dylan is town. So far all I've seen is like, concerns about wagon composition, or finding someone else scummier, and neither of those explains the vehemence of the opposition to me.

Who do you think is vehemently opposing it?

You, joth, MiX mainly. There are a couple of other people on the mathdude wagon that haven't really given an opinion on Dylan - EFHW, Galzria, Swowl.

I see faust tunneling and not otherwise assisting in any scumhunting. I also see Dylan resting on a case from the very start of the game and not responding to my observation that it relies on MiX also being scum. And I see mathdude seeming to scumhunt but not actually doing any of the work involved and relying on the old "gut instinct" answer to every question, even though his posts implied reasoning had been done. I don't understand the case on e at all. Are the same people accusing Dylan also accusing e? Those are mutually contradictory positions.

So I'm ok with Dylan or math being exiled  Not much reason to move my vote.

[MiX]

(to faust)

I don't see why Dylan is scum. Does he need to make more wallposts? I feel like the read you have on Dylan is the same I had on scola, and I oppose it for the same reason you opppsed my read on scola.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny.

Why do you think so?

Mostly the enumerated list of why he is towny, and especially the point that he has more tryhard as scum.

[faust]

(to faust)

I don't see why Dylan is scum. Does he need to make more wallposts? I feel like the read you have on Dylan is the same I had on scola, and I oppose it for the same reason you opppsed my read on scola.

His first game post felt very "need to post something with content". Then he used his early case as an excuse to not do anything else, which seems like a scum thing to me: I've found my fake case, I want to stick to it because otherwise I have to make up something else, and that's hard.

[EFHW]

Answering fang's question ...

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

This

I didn't vote math for the either/or, remember? It was for the lack of substance behind his very strong statements.

[jotheonah]

(to faust)

I don't see why Dylan is scum. Does he need to make more wallposts? I feel like the read you have on Dylan is the same I had on scola, and I oppose it for the same reason you opppsed my read on scola.

His first game post felt very "need to post something with content". Then he used his early case as an excuse to not do anything else, which seems like a scum thing to me: I've found my fake case, I want to stick to it because otherwise I have to make up something else, and that's hard.

You know what’s not hard is switching your vote to e.

[faust]

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny.

Why do you think so?

Mostly the enumerated list of why he is towny, and especially the point that he has more tryhard as scum.

Meh. I think there actually was tryhard (see my previous reply to MiX). The "I build strong cases" thing was actually present here. And as to "I would be more active as scum", which seems the only point of values left... I'm not sure that's true, what I remember from Dylan is sporadic bursts of activity as either alignment.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote Count 1.5
A chef's hat has a number of pleats equal to the number of ways that chef can cook eggs.

That is charming!

[faust]

(to faust)

I don't see why Dylan is scum. Does he need to make more wallposts? I feel like the read you have on Dylan is the same I had on scola, and I oppose it for the same reason you opppsed my read on scola.

His first game post felt very "need to post something with content". Then he used his early case as an excuse to not do anything else, which seems like a scum thing to me: I've found my fake case, I want to stick to it because otherwise I have to make up something else, and that's hard.

You know what’s not hard is switching your vote to e.

It's not hard... for scum. e is actually one of the towniest players around here.

[infangthief]

There isn't really a case on e. (At least, I posted one, but I flip back and forward on whether I even believe it myself.)

I think most people are voting e for just slightly scummy things / turns of phrase he's said.
First one for me was his second post of the game, where he answers the question that he asked in his previous post.
Joth and Dylan each mentioned other ones when they laid their first votes. Galzria possibly also, I can't remember.

e went through a phase of announcing about 4 different people were town, or day 1 passes for him. Which is possibly towny, but so much of it in a row just seemed like he was laying into the "faust doesn't like this, look I'm going to do it anyway to show I don't care". (Ok, what I'm saying here is maybe just similar to mathdude's "scumhunting" of MiX; I was already thinking e was likely scum by that time.)

Otherwise, I don't think e has done much (or any?) scumhunting. There was a bit possibly on gkrieg, but he didn't have much to say when challenged. And of course in that context there was this exchange, which I still don't know what to make of:

Gkrieg's read-and-reply regarding math feels.... Genuine? But I don't see it as townie.

Just feels like he was about to white knight math then decided to keep some shade going.

Not calling math scum, but just keeping the option alive

Genuine?
White-knighting + shading?
Which one?

Genuine in the sense that he read the first post, reacted one way, then kept reading and reacted another way

And then the interactions with mathdude, who may well be scum.

PPE: 7

[infangthief]

Answering fang's question ...

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

This

I didn't vote math for the either/or, remember? It was for the lack of substance behind his very strong statements.

Quite. But you picked out me to ask what I thought about the lack of substance behind his strong statements. Why did you not also pick out e to ask that?

[EFHW]

vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)

Why not just vote Dylan?

[MiX]

Is anyone willing to CFD onto Didds, or are we doing Dylan/e today?

[EFHW]

Answering fang's question ...

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

This

I didn't vote math for the either/or, remember? It was for the lack of substance behind his very strong statements.

Quite. But you picked out me to ask what I thought about the lack of substance behind his strong statements. Why did you not also pick out e to ask that?

I picked out you because you had just made a detailed case against him but didn't vote.

[MiX]

Has anyone talked about EFHW at all today? Or faust? They seem to be going low. Galzria too, but I already gave him a D1 pass.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny.

Why do you think so?

Mostly the enumerated list of why he is towny, and especially the point that he has more tryhard as scum.

Meh. I think there actually was tryhard (see my previous reply to MiX). The "I build strong cases" thing was actually present here. And as to "I would be more active as scum", which seems the only point of values left... I'm not sure that's true, what I remember from Dylan is sporadic bursts of activity as either alignment.

You undoubtedly know him better than I because you pay better attention to detail. For me, that series of posts had some thought and some of the frustration that comes with trying to prove you’re town when no such proof really exists. My reasons for voting for him were based entirely on what appeared to me as a calculated lurking because he’d pop by for short, usually funny kinds of check ins but not much more. So, when he did more it made a difference.

Scola has been the same way, but his more is now arguing about whether or not he is rude and I don’t see that as redeeming in the same sort of way.

All that said, there is no one else on scola right now, so I’ll move my vote in the next hour.

[EFHW]

Is anyone willing to CFD onto Didds, or are we doing Dylan/e today?

I'd vote Didds over e. Otherwise not strongly motivated in that direction atm.

[WestCoastDidds]

Has anyone talked about EFHW at all today? Or faust? They seem to be going low. Galzria too, but I already gave him a D1 pass.

There was a little bit of chatter early on with reads lists but nothing for the bulk of the day.

[jotheonah]

(to faust)

I don't see why Dylan is scum. Does he need to make more wallposts? I feel like the read you have on Dylan is the same I had on scola, and I oppose it for the same reason you opppsed my read on scola.

His first game post felt very "need to post something with content". Then he used his early case as an excuse to not do anything else, which seems like a scum thing to me: I've found my fake case, I want to stick to it because otherwise I have to make up something else, and that's hard.

You know what’s not hard is switching your vote to e.

It's not hard... for scum. e is actually one of the towniest players around here.

Well you know what they say about the towniest player around. Almost definitely scum.

[faust]

(to faust)

I don't see why Dylan is scum. Does he need to make more wallposts? I feel like the read you have on Dylan is the same I had on scola, and I oppose it for the same reason you opppsed my read on scola.

His first game post felt very "need to post something with content". Then he used his early case as an excuse to not do anything else, which seems like a scum thing to me: I've found my fake case, I want to stick to it because otherwise I have to make up something else, and that's hard.

You know what’s not hard is switching your vote to e.

It's not hard... for scum. e is actually one of the towniest players around here.

Well you know what they say about the towniest player around. Almost definitely scum.

I'm not sure who "they" is supposed to be... Is this something you actually believe in some form? I have to ask because it seems you have the opposite opinion to me on everything else.

[WestCoastDidds]

Is anyone willing to CFD onto Didds, or are we doing Dylan/e today?

Is there any sort of reason why that I can respond to? Or are you just leaning into “she’s off” until you’re wrong after my flip but it’s irrelevant because I’m gone?

[2.71828.....]

There isn't really a case on e. (At least, I posted one, but I flip back and forward on whether I even believe it myself.)

I think most people are voting e for just slightly scummy things / turns of phrase he's said.
First one for me was his second post of the game, where he answers the question that he asked in his previous post.
Joth and Dylan each mentioned other ones when they laid their first votes. Galzria possibly also, I can't remember.

e went through a phase of announcing about 4 different people were town, or day 1 passes for him. Which is possibly towny, but so much of it in a row just seemed like he was laying into the "faust doesn't like this, look I'm going to do it anyway to show I don't care". (Ok, what I'm saying here is maybe just similar to mathdude's "scumhunting" of MiX; I was already thinking e was likely scum by that time.)

Otherwise, I don't think e has done much (or any?) scumhunting. There was a bit possibly on gkrieg, but he didn't have much to say when challenged. And of course in that context there was this exchange, which I still don't know what to make of:

Gkrieg's read-and-reply regarding math feels.... Genuine? But I don't see it as townie.

Just feels like he was about to white knight math then decided to keep some shade going.

Not calling math scum, but just keeping the option alive

Genuine?
White-knighting + shading?
Which one?

Genuine in the sense that he read the first post, reacted one way, then kept reading and reacted another way

And then the interactions with mathdude, who may well be scum.

PPE: 7

Let me vote e because math might be scum

[2.71828.....]

My meeting is about to start, we will see how long it goes.

[faust]

I could go for MiX, just saying. But I probably won't because there's only like an hour left.

On the plus side, my dentist's appointment is actually later than I remembered, so I will make it to the deadline.

[WestCoastDidds]

I could go for MiX, just saying. But I probably won't because there's only like an hour left.

On the plus side, my dentist's appointment is actually later than I remembered, so I will make it to the deadline.

Hmmmm…. I don’t hate that idea. I like it better than math or e.

[WestCoastDidds]

An update to the fang count

Dylan32 (4) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
mathdude (4) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
scolapasta (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

[MiX]

Is anyone willing to CFD onto Didds, or are we doing Dylan/e today?

Is there any sort of reason why that I can respond to? Or are you just leaning into “she’s off” until you’re wrong after my flip but it’s irrelevant because I’m gone?

I'm not feeling any non-scola non-Didds CFD, and I don't reeeeally want scola dead. I just trust my early read.

[WestCoastDidds]

An update to the fang count

Dylan32 (4) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
scolapasta (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

Rather

[EFHW]

vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)

Why not just vote Dylan?

I'm not following your reasoning here.

[MiX]

I don't like the MiX wagon, but it's a good CFD. I don't think today has been especially useless for me to die, though.

[WestCoastDidds]

What is CFD?

[infangthief]

What is CFD?

Chinese Fire Drill, I think. Running someone up to exile last minute, from nothing.

[jotheonah]

(to faust)

I don't see why Dylan is scum. Does he need to make more wallposts? I feel like the read you have on Dylan is the same I had on scola, and I oppose it for the same reason you opppsed my read on scola.

His first game post felt very "need to post something with content". Then he used his early case as an excuse to not do anything else, which seems like a scum thing to me: I've found my fake case, I want to stick to it because otherwise I have to make up something else, and that's hard.

You know what’s not hard is switching your vote to e.

It's not hard... for scum. e is actually one of the towniest players around here.

Well you know what they say about the towniest player around. Almost definitely scum.

I'm not sure who "they" is supposed to be... Is this something you actually believe in some form? I have to ask because it seems you have the opposite opinion to me on everything else.

I think generally scum is good enough at the game to not act scummy on day 1. Overtly scummy players are usually just misplaying town.

My case on e is my favorite kind of day 1 case because it's specific but slight. The sort of small mistakes day 1 scum actually makes.

Your case on Dylan is... I don't really understand it TBH. But the problem with day 1 cases in general is they try to be these broad cases about someone's whole pattern of play and like, that's exactly what scum is paying attention to.

Not scum hunting? That's a town tell if I've ever seen one! Of course scum is going to be scumhunting, as hard as they possibly can.

[jotheonah]

I don't like the MiX wagon, but it's a good CFD. I don't think today has been especially useless for me to die, though.

MiX, I love you, but the martyr thing is getting old. You're not the exile today, and that's OK.

[WestCoastDidds]

What is CFD?

Chinese Fire Drill, I think. Running someone up to exile last minute, from nothing.

Ah, got it. The scramble.

[jotheonah]

MiX, I'd go to Didds with you (sorry Didds).

[MiX]

I don't like the MiX wagon, but it's a good CFD. I don't think today has been especially useless for me to die, though.

MiX, I love you, but the martyr thing is getting old. You're not the exile today, and that's OK.

I'm not advocating for myself, for the record. I just like the idea of getting someone else as a wagon, and I was talked about a bunch. So, good idea, wrong person, mostly because I'm town.

MiX, I'd go to Didds with you (sorry Didds).

Better than math, I guess.

Lemme reread Didds though.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, I'd go to Didds with you (sorry Didds).

It’s okay. As long as you and Mix both promise that the morning after the flip, you rue you’re wrongness and decorate your message with heart emojis in apology because the gameplay is less charming when I’m not around and you made that happen.

[infangthief]

vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)

Why not just vote Dylan?

I'm not following your reasoning here.

If any of these three wagons (Dylan, e or mathdude, or any other wagon that materialises) is on scum, then we're getting good info here from people's reactions as we approach deadline.

When I turned up an hour ago (escaped from my parallel universe), no-one had said anything in like half an hour, so it seemed like things would just stay as they were, and Dylan would show up, vote mathdude, no responsibility attached because it would have been self preservation.

So it was in that context.
Since then everything has kicked off, which is probably good.

[faust]

Of course scum town is going to be scumhunting, as hard as they possibly can.

FTFY

[WestCoastDidds]

We are in a weird stasis. I’ll go back to

Vote: Dylan which I don’t think really changes anything but probably it’s not helpful to anyone for me to be hanging on to a solo vote

[MiX]

Unvote

Who did I want to vote before? I forgot now...well, when in doubt, vote scum.

Vote: Didds

Pfftt, you can do better than that

Joth wrote this post, right?

I withdraw my scumread on Didds. This is really flimsy since I'm using the previous game as meta, but I trust it.

[jotheonah]

Didds, if we promise not to CFD to you, will you do us a solid and vote for e?

[faust]

I found out that I do, in fact, disagree with everything that joth says. D1 is when scum makes the most mistakes, and act the most scummy. It's just also the day when town has the least amount of information to figure that out.

[MiX]

I'm on e to solve math. I don't care about any non-scola wagon now.

[MiX]

I found out that I do, in fact, disagree with everything that joth says. D1 is when scum makes the most mistakes, and act the most scummy. It's just also the day when town has the least amount of information to figure that out.

Making the most mistakes is not acting the most scummy...the former is true, the latter is not.

Do I have to be this pedantic?

[jotheonah]

When you think about it, mafia is a lot like Wordle.

Everybody else is out there talking about how they have to use their early guesses strategically to gain the maximum amount of information, and I'm just going with my gut and typing "GLYPH".

And you know what, longterm I might not solve the Wordle as much as everybody else, but every now and then I'm gonna get those 1s and 2s when everybody else is struggling.

[WestCoastDidds]

Half hour out….

Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WCD
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief

 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

[WestCoastDidds]

When you think about it, mafia is a lot like Wordle.

Everybody else is out there talking about how they have to use their early guesses strategically to gain the maximum amount of information, and I'm just going with my gut and typing "GLYPH".

And you know what, longterm I might not solve the Wordle as much as everybody else, but every now and then I'm gonna get those 1s and 2s when everybody else is struggling.

I just solved the Globle in 3 guesses!?!

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, if we promise not to CFD to you, will you do us a solid and vote for e?

Why e? I didn’t see your vote as particularly motivated. Is it?

[MiX]

Mafia is about winning in 6 turns, not winning as fast as possible. However, you shouldn't waste turns away guessing things that are obviously wrong. So each day you have to try to exile scum.

[jotheonah]

Didds, if we promise not to CFD to you, will you do us a solid and vote for e?

Why e? I didn’t see your vote as particularly motivated. Is it?

If you read my posts carefully, you'll see that I'm at most about 35% sure e is scum, which makes it a hill that I'm aggressively willing to die on.

[MiX]

Is now the time to explains why you think math is scum, joth?

Actually, no. I’ll save it for day 2.

Ok then what is this, joth?

[WestCoastDidds]

That at least seems more adamant than most.

[WestCoastDidds]

The wordle took me 4; the nerdle took 5. Now I’m out of quick games.

Folks are done moving? Does that seem odd?

[WestCoastDidds]

Or that plurality exile normal?

[MiX]

Half hour out….

Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WCD
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief

 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

Who can color this VC? I can't, I'm on mobile.

The wordle took me 4; the nerdle took 5. Now I’m out of quick games.

Folks are done moving? Does that seem odd?

They're too busy making wordles, I guess...

As long as Dylan's the top wagon, faust doesn't need to move. Same for e.

[jotheonah]

Is now the time to explains why you think math is scum, joth?

Actually, no. I’ll save it for day 2.

Ok then what is this, joth?

insurance

[MiX]

Vote: joth

I mean, I understand what you want, I've done it too, but you can't leave people hanging like that. I also don't have a big townread on you.

[WestCoastDidds]

Half hour out….

Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WCD
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief

 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

Who can color this VC? I can't, I'm on mobile.

The wordle took me 4; the nerdle took 5. Now I’m out of quick games.

Folks are done moving? Does that seem odd?

They're too busy making wordles, I guess...

As long as Dylan's the top wagon, faust doesn't need to move. Same for e.

Nah… the wordle was fast.

[WestCoastDidds]

MIX, do you have strong feelings about the e wagon?

[infangthief]

When you think about it, mafia is a lot like Wordle.

Everybody else is out there talking about how they have to use their early guesses strategically to gain the maximum amount of information, and I'm just going with my gut and typing "GLYPH".

And you know what, longterm I might not solve the Wordle as much as everybody else, but every now and then I'm gonna get those 1s and 2s when everybody else is struggling.

I just solved the Globle in 3 guesses!?!

I haven't met Globle yet. To begin with I misread this as the Glooble, as you were replying to joth.

[jotheonah]

It's not anything interesting or important, I promise. If there weren't 5 minutes left in the day I would tell you now. It was something about his Dylan vote prior to that I think, that made me think it would be a good idea to try to counteract its effect.

[WestCoastDidds]

Globle is fun! It’s geography

[WestCoastDidds]

Fang, do you have strong e feelings?

[jotheonah]

Dylan is a perfectly fine day 1 exile, honestly. I don't think he's scum but who knows? He might surprise me. Faust is pretty good at this game, even if he is wrong about everything all the time.

[WestCoastDidds]

Dylan is a perfectly fine day 1 exile, honestly. I don't think he's scum but who knows? He might surprise me. Faust is pretty good at this game, even if he is wrong about everything all the time.

Ha! He just across the aisle from the wordsy people

[MiX]

MIX, do you have strong feelings about the e wagon?

No, I've given up on the exile changing today.

Globle is fun! It’s geography

Wait, so it was not a pun on Glooble? Interesting...

Dylan is a perfectly fine day 1 exile, honestly. I don't think he's scum but who knows? He might surprise me. Faust is pretty good at this game, even if he is wrong about everything all the time.

Eh, I reaĺly don't think he's scum. I guess I have no reason to townread him either, but...

[infangthief]

Fang, do you have strong e feelings?

Strong enough for me to prefer that exile over Dylan.

[jotheonah]

Didds I just tried the Globle and I got it on the first guess. It was uncanny. Pure weird luck.

[J Reggie]

Thread locked!

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 1.Final
As the eggs sat in the nest, pipping to each other, they decided it would be best to get rid of the red eggs. Unfortunately, their shells being in the way made that hard to do. They had to take their best guess though, and succeeded in pushing a suspicious egg out of the nest.

SPLAT!

Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

Dylan32, an unhatched green egg, has been exiled. Night 1 begins now and ends February 24, 2022, 09:00:00 am. Night actions are due in 36 hours. Check your discord in a few minutes to see if you have hatched!

Votes:
MiX -> jotheonah
infangthief -> 2.71828.....
faust -> MiX
gkrieg13 -> MiX
2.71828..... -> infangthief
EFHW -> infangthief
2.71828..... -> gkrieg13
Galzria -> 2.71828.....
Dylan32 -> 2.71828.....
MiX -> WestCoastDidds
EFHW -> MiX
jotheonah -> 2.71828.....
gkrieg13 -> jotheonah
faust -> Dylan32
gkrieg13 -> MiX
MiX -> Dylan32
mathdude -> MiX
EFHW -> mathdude
WestCoastDidds -> Dylan32
MiX -> --
MiX -> WestCoastDidds
Swowl -> mathdude
infangthief -> faust
infangthief -> mathdude
MiX -> scolapasta
2.71828..... -> Dylan32
MiX -> WestCoastDidds
mathdude -> Dylan32
jotheonah -> mathdude
gkrieg13 -> Dylan32
WestCoastDidds -> scolapasta
Galzria -> mathdude
MiX -> 2.71828.....
jotheonah -> 2.71828.....
infangthief -> 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds -> Dylan32

[J Reggie]

Hatches have been sent out and the Mafia QT is open. Apologies for the delay.

[J Reggie]

Twas a sad night for the green eggs in the nest. Although some of them had hatched, it would be a few weeks before they could fly. Therefore, it was no big surprise when faust, a cop, was pushed out of the nest, falling to the ground. The eggs had to find who was responsible for this! Could they, or would they all meet the same fate?

Not voting (11) : 2.71828....., EFHW, Galzria, gkrieg13, infangthief, jotheonah, mathdude, MiX, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
 
Day 2 starts now and ends March 03, 2022, 09:00:00 am.

Thread unlocked!

[jotheonah]

Does that mean faust was hatched? Damn, that's unfortunate. Also, the guy who was pushing the misexile the hardest? Weird choice. I mean, I know it's faust but still.

[infangthief]

Vote: e

vote: mathdude

Joth, please explain why you broke the mathdude wagon a couple of hours before deadline.

[infangthief]

In fact. I've half a mind just to go straight for joth.

[jotheonah]

First of all, it's kind of counterintuitive that my switching from mathdude to e made Dylan the exile. I didn't want Dylan to be the exile, as I said several times. I wanted e. e is who I was voting for most of the day. I put my vote back where I really wanted it to be, in the hopes that two more people would join me and I would get my ideal exile instead of my second-favorite. And instead, I got my least-favorite, because of a quirk of the rules.

But I didn't (and don't) particularly think mathdude is scum. So I don't really feel bad about it either way.

[jotheonah]

Also, it wouldn't have affected the outcome anyway.

I want to know why scola didn't vote at all.

[2.71828.....]

That is unfortunate.

Vote: Didds

[2.71828.....]

I also am getting strong vibes that both joth and fang are town, which means the final wagon against me D1 was all town or MiX is scum. Or I am wrong about joth/fang

[2.71828.....]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

[MiX]

Lol faust pushed a misexile all day and still died.

Vote: Galzria

[WestCoastDidds]

As much as I like the metaphor of the nest, I am not at all fond of the idea that anyone could be pushed out of the nest to splat on the sidewalk!

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

[jotheonah]

Vote: e

[MiX]

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

[2.71828.....]

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

That's nice. Care to share?

[EFHW]

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

[EFHW]

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

[Galzria]

Vote: WCD

She left the Dylan wagon when it hit a peak of (5), while Math (the leading backup option) was sitting at (4), with a decent amount is suspicion still surrounding 2.718, who at the time had (2) - to weakly place her vote on Scola - someone it was easy for her to disagree with regarding style, instead of actually making a case for being scum.

She left the Dylan wagon with a statement regarding his (now) towniness, despite having been on him from post #265 to #438, doubling down at #370 with an assertion that an ISO on him reveals he’s done nothing townie.

To me, I get the sense that WCD had all her eggs in a row ready to let fall out of the nest, picked a person (Scola) with whom she would have no problem arguing style differences with - but didn’t actually have to justify as scummy - and sat back to let things play out.

Lastly, in #523, she went back to Dylan (which secured Dylan’s Exile) with a statement that her vote probably didn’t make a difference at this point - which if she hadn’t changed from Scola would be true - Dylan sat at (4) votes with the longest tenure. Except 2.718 ALSO sat at (4), and she could’ve placed her vote there.

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny. I agree that Swowl is not playing in quite his normal way. I get the sense that he and Galz are work-busy, but I’m still wary.

This is normally when I’d follow Mix, but he’s not cooperating with that plan at all.

Vote: Scola


Is the 9am deadline forum time? The “your time” is confusing for me.

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny.

Why do you think so?

Mostly the enumerated list of why he is towny, and especially the point that he has more tryhard as scum.

We are in a weird stasis. I’ll go back to

Vote: Dylan which I don’t think really changes anything but probably it’s not helpful to anyone for me to be hanging on to a solo vote

[MiX]

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

I think Galzria was the obvious kill there. That's basically my reason behind voting him, and then unvoting him now that I saw faust was not going to be voted this game.

[jotheonah]

e, why are you voting Didds?

[2.71828.....]

e, why are you voting Didds?

Rudimentary gut reaction PoE really. With Dylan and faust flipping, I am basically thinking someone in those last 3 votes on Dylan is scum.

I just skimmed a bit of EoD1 and Didds seemed to make a point of being around at the end of the day, which I felt was a bit try-hard town, or, in other words, scummy.

So I voted Didds.

[2.71828.....]

That and I feel like Didds is someone who would be on board NKing faust

[jotheonah]

This is a solid case. I'm honestly loving the Didds cases, but I was nervous because of my scumread on e. But that was a day 1 case, so maybe it's time to let it go and go for something stronger.

Vote: WCD

[MiX]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

[jotheonah]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I could definitely see them both being scum.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m on my phone and it was too hard to snip Galz’s comment. I don’t need to respond to why I was voting Dylan early. That was lurking and I said so.

I moved to Scola because he’s scummy.

Galz says:
Lastly, in #523, she went back to Dylan (which secured Dylan’s Exile) with a statement that her vote probably didn’t make a difference at this point - which if she hadn’t changed from Scola would be true - Dylan sat at (4) votes with the longest tenure. Except 2.718 ALSO sat at (4), and she could’ve placed her vote there.

The reason I said it didn’t make a difference when I moved back to Dylan was because he was already going to be the exile. So, it didn’t make a difference. Obviously I could have voted for e and it would have made a difference, but I didn’t think he had done anything scummy, I don’t like his wagon, and I most trusted faust.

I said that I found Dylan’s most recent posts towny just before I moved off of him, and that was and is true. But I thought e was townier than Dylan was, so among those two, a better guess. I’m not surprised he’s town.

With the plurality exile, VCA isn’t as powerful. Scum wouldn’t even need to join one of the leading wagons unless it was to prevent one of their own. So, you think e is my partner? That was the only person I protected by voting how/when I did. And e running up a wagon on me now, right out of the gate, is smart partner play?

But it is certainly true when if I’m scum, faust is always at the top of my list. That is non-unique, though. Lots of people whack him.

PPE:2

[WestCoastDidds]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

For Galz to be right, I’d have to have voted to protect e. So, the better question is are both e and I scum together?

[WestCoastDidds]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I could definitely see them both being scum.

Cool, then vote for e.

[jotheonah]

If e and Didds are scum together, their partner is definitely not going to come to their defense here. So if no one steps up to defend them, we know they're scum.


Just kidding, I know that's a fallacy!

[2.71828.....]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I could definitely see them both being scum.

Cool, then vote for e.

So that when I flip town you can use that to call yourself town?

It is also interesting how fast MiX went to the absolute statement "can anyone see both Didds and e as town"

[2.71828.....]

If e and Didds are scum together, their partner is definitely not going to come to their defense here. So if no one steps up to defend them, we know they're scum.


Just kidding, I know that's a fallacy!

Thanks for the defense

[mathdude]

As much as I like the metaphor of the nest, I am not at all fond of the idea that anyone could be pushed out of the nest to splat on the sidewalk!

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

The call makes sense to me.  I believe I mentioned yesterday that it seemed MiX and Didds were partners.

And the talk today still has me thinking it's Didds.  It's like she's dug a deeper hole rather than helping her case.

Vote: Didds

[MiX]

X-2, lol.

Yeah I think if Didds was scum she wouldn't had dug her hole deeper.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, how many missexile do we get before we’re in trouble?

[2.71828.....]

I am also interested in looking more closely at people who voted and never moved. Just stayed there.

Plurality exile makes different people react different ways

For example, swowl votes for math because of an "all-too-early reads list"

Then sits there. There is some follow up, including a statement about how swowl's read is waning but not enough to move anywhere else.

This is also a very comfortable place for scum to be D1 with plurality exile

[MiX]

MiX, how many missexile do we get before we’re in trouble?

Scum has to do 3 more misexiles to win.

[mathdude]

We should also expect to hear something useful from scola today.  There have been flips now.

[EFHW]

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

No one responded to this. Is it off somehow?

[EFHW]

As much as I like the metaphor of the nest, I am not at all fond of the idea that anyone could be pushed out of the nest to splat on the sidewalk!

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

The call makes sense to me.  I believe I mentioned yesterday that it seemed MiX and Didds were partners.

And the talk today still has me thinking it's Didds.  It's like she's dug a deeper hole rather than helping her case.

Vote: Didds

What specifically is the hole she dug?

Are you assuming MiX is scum and therefore voting Didds? You saw where Dylan got with that kind of thinking.

[2.71828.....]

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

No one responded to this. Is it off somehow?

I think it is all a bit of speculation. Is it what you talked about with your scum partners during the night?

I was about to add you to my list of people who camped out on one person most all of D1. Going back and reading your D1 send townie enough though

[EFHW]

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

No one responded to this. Is it off somehow?

I think it is all a bit of speculation. Is it what you talked about with your scum partners during the night?

I was about to add you to my list of people who camped out on one person most all of D1. Going back and reading your D1 send townie enough though

That's fair (except the bit about scum partners, but it made me laugh).

[jotheonah]

is MiX going to share his reason with the class?

[2.71828.....]

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

I think Galzria was the obvious kill there. That's basically my reason behind voting him, and then unvoting him now that I saw faust was not going to be voted this game.

Pretty sure his reason was "faust was not going to be voted"

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, how many missexile do we get before we’re in trouble?

Scum has to do 3 more misexiles to win.

Cool. No danger then.

I’m going to quit fighting with y’all about my D1. There is zero that I can do to prove that I’m not scum beyond flipping. I’m unhatched so it’s no big loss.  Besides, Galz isn’t ever going to be convinced. He’s wrong, but he is stubborn in his wrongness. The piling on is probably telling, but that’s not for me to decide. It’s too frustrating to keep answering questions and be told I’m just digging deeper. I don’t even know what that means in this context.

[2.71828.....]

MiX, how many missexile do we get before we’re in trouble?

Scum has to do 3 more misexiles to win.

Cool. No danger then.

I’m going to quit fighting with y’all about my D1. There is zero that I can do to prove that I’m not scum beyond flipping. I’m unhatched so it’s no big loss.  Besides, Galz isn’t ever going to be convinced. He’s wrong, but he is stubborn in his wrongness. The piling on is probably telling, but that’s not for me to decide. It’s too frustrating to keep answering questions and be told I’m just digging deeper. I don’t even know what that means in this context.

Who do you think is scum? Do you think there was scum on the Dylan wagon?

[scolapasta]

Hi all.

I again apologize for my lack of posting for much of D1. Early on it was more than I didn't have anything compelling to add and then later got very busy and have been on vacation week (nothing exotic, but some visiting with friends). I did get flustered by being called "extremely rude" without being left any space for legit reasons, especially in light if the fact that I feel like I usually do an ok job of posting regularly. But whatever, faust is gone now anyway, so no sense in debating hat now.

If WCD wasn't already on X-2, I'd be willing to vote for her based on today's posts. I do need to find time to catch up on D1 some.

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, how many missexile do we get before we’re in trouble?

Scum has to do 3 more misexiles to win.

Cool. No danger then.

I’m going to quit fighting with y’all about my D1. There is zero that I can do to prove that I’m not scum beyond flipping. I’m unhatched so it’s no big loss.  Besides, Galz isn’t ever going to be convinced. He’s wrong, but he is stubborn in his wrongness. The piling on is probably telling, but that’s not for me to decide. It’s too frustrating to keep answering questions and be told I’m just digging deeper. I don’t even know what that means in this context.

Who do you think is scum? Do you think there was scum on the Dylan wagon?

Scola is my best guess for scum. From the Dylan wagon, mathdude > gkrieg. But there didn’t have to be any scum on it. Mathdude went up on my list when he voted for me with the digging deeper bit. It’s following the pack without actually making any argument at all so no skin in the game.

[gkrieg13]

Looking at the wagons, I see a few options.

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If e is scum:

• Scum is likely late on Dylan's wagon, like WCD or mathdude.
• Joth expertly moved exiles to ensure Dylan was exiled.

To me, it looked more like e is town, which also plays into my slight townread on mathdude, and my perception of how joth plays.

I think we should probably look at the mathdude wagon + scola for scum today.

[gkrieg13]

Does that mean faust was hatched? Damn, that's unfortunate. Also, the guy who was pushing the misexile the hardest? Weird choice. I mean, I know it's faust but still.

I'm also surprised by this kill. Do we know anyone that faust was scumreading other than Dylan?

[gkrieg13]

vote: scola

[gkrieg13]

Lol faust pushed a misexile all day and still died.

Vote: Galzria

hmmm, I must've missed something. Why galzria?

[gkrieg13]

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

This is making me even more sure of my reads on e and scola. But EFHW was also on the mathdude wagon, which makes this WIFOM if she is scum.

Why didn't you switch to either Dylan or e yesterday?

[gkrieg13]

Vote: WCD

She left the Dylan wagon when it hit a peak of (5), while Math (the leading backup option) was sitting at (4), with a decent amount is suspicion still surrounding 2.718, who at the time had (2) - to weakly place her vote on Scola - someone it was easy for her to disagree with regarding style, instead of actually making a case for being scum.

She left the Dylan wagon with a statement regarding his (now) towniness, despite having been on him from post #265 to #438, doubling down at #370 with an assertion that an ISO on him reveals he’s done nothing townie.

To me, I get the sense that WCD had all her eggs in a row ready to let fall out of the nest, picked a person (Scola) with whom she would have no problem arguing style differences with - but didn’t actually have to justify as scummy - and sat back to let things play out.

Lastly, in #523, she went back to Dylan (which secured Dylan’s Exile) with a statement that her vote probably didn’t make a difference at this point - which if she hadn’t changed from Scola would be true - Dylan sat at (4) votes with the longest tenure. Except 2.718 ALSO sat at (4), and she could’ve placed her vote there.

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny. I agree that Swowl is not playing in quite his normal way. I get the sense that he and Galz are work-busy, but I’m still wary.

This is normally when I’d follow Mix, but he’s not cooperating with that plan at all.

Vote: Scola


Is the 9am deadline forum time? The “your time” is confusing for me.

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny.

Why do you think so?

Mostly the enumerated list of why he is towny, and especially the point that he has more tryhard as scum.

We are in a weird stasis. I’ll go back to

Vote: Dylan which I don’t think really changes anything but probably it’s not helpful to anyone for me to be hanging on to a solo vote

What do you see as her reason to go back to Dylan? Was she trying to prevent a partner from exile?

[gkrieg13]

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

I think Galzria was the obvious kill there. That's basically my reason behind voting him, and then unvoting him now that I saw faust was not going to be voted this game.

I'm not following this. Between voting galz and unvoting galz, where did you ``see'' that faust was not going to be voted this game?

[gkrieg13]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I'm obviously repeating what I said in recent posts, but it seems like they are either both town or both scum.

[gkrieg13]

-snip-
It is also interesting how fast MiX went to the absolute statement "can anyone see both Didds and e as town"

I agree with this. What motive do you see there?

[MiX]

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

I think Galzria was the obvious kill there. That's basically my reason behind voting him, and then unvoting him now that I saw faust was not going to be voted this game.

I'm not following this. Between voting galz and unvoting galz, where did you ``see'' that faust was not going to be voted this game?

I was ISOing faust, and I saw his reply to Dylan saying faust is town. So I thought about how faust was perceived in the thread, and I didn't remember any scumreads being given out. Especially at EoD, people were mostly...angry at his stubbornness. Angry's not the right word, but you know. And then I went back to what I thought of faust at the end, and I was a bit annoyed, but never did I consider faust to be scum, even after the flip. So overall faust was a good nightkill, at least theoretically, and that was enough for me to unvote galz.

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I'm obviously repeating what I said in recent posts, but it seems like they are either both town or both scum.

I agree, but I'm not very confident in it. I would rather find another scum that I'm more confident in. But this seems like an important question for now and possibly all of D2.

[gkrieg13]

Hi all.

I again apologize for my lack of posting for much of D1. Early on it was more than I didn't have anything compelling to add and then later got very busy and have been on vacation week (nothing exotic, but some visiting with friends). I did get flustered by being called "extremely rude" without being left any space for legit reasons, especially in light if the fact that I feel like I usually do an ok job of posting regularly. But whatever, faust is gone now anyway, so no sense in debating hat now.

If WCD wasn't already on X-2, I'd be willing to vote for her based on today's posts. I do need to find time to catch up on D1 some.

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I think you should probably just vote for her, if you say you are willing to. I don't know why people are so worried about putting people on X-1 early in the day, especially if it is basically your only read.

[gkrieg13]

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

I think Galzria was the obvious kill there. That's basically my reason behind voting him, and then unvoting him now that I saw faust was not going to be voted this game.

I'm not following this. Between voting galz and unvoting galz, where did you ``see'' that faust was not going to be voted this game?

I was ISOing faust, and I saw his reply to Dylan saying faust is town. So I thought about how faust was perceived in the thread, and I didn't remember any scumreads being given out. Especially at EoD, people were mostly...angry at his stubbornness. Angry's not the right word, but you know. And then I went back to what I thought of faust at the end, and I was a bit annoyed, but never did I consider faust to be scum, even after the flip. So overall faust was a good nightkill, at least theoretically, and that was enough for me to unvote galz.

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I'm obviously repeating what I said in recent posts, but it seems like they are either both town or both scum.

I agree, but I'm not very confident in it. I would rather find another scum that I'm more confident in. But this seems like an important question for now and possibly all of D2.

I do think scum!WCD is willing to save her partner scum!e, like she did.

[MiX]

Hi all.

I again apologize for my lack of posting for much of D1. Early on it was more than I didn't have anything compelling to add and then later got very busy and have been on vacation week (nothing exotic, but some visiting with friends). I did get flustered by being called "extremely rude" without being left any space for legit reasons, especially in light if the fact that I feel like I usually do an ok job of posting regularly. But whatever, faust is gone now anyway, so no sense in debating hat now.

If WCD wasn't already on X-2, I'd be willing to vote for her based on today's posts. I do need to find time to catch up on D1 some.

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I think you should probably just vote for her, if you say you are willing to. I don't know why people are so worried about putting people on X-1 early in the day, especially if it is basically your only read.

Because Swowl will come in and hammer without thinking.

Don't tell me that's not a real possibility now.

[gkrieg13]

Hi all.

I again apologize for my lack of posting for much of D1. Early on it was more than I didn't have anything compelling to add and then later got very busy and have been on vacation week (nothing exotic, but some visiting with friends). I did get flustered by being called "extremely rude" without being left any space for legit reasons, especially in light if the fact that I feel like I usually do an ok job of posting regularly. But whatever, faust is gone now anyway, so no sense in debating hat now.

If WCD wasn't already on X-2, I'd be willing to vote for her based on today's posts. I do need to find time to catch up on D1 some.

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I think you should probably just vote for her, if you say you are willing to. I don't know why people are so worried about putting people on X-1 early in the day, especially if it is basically your only read.

Because Swowl will come in and hammer without thinking.

Don't tell me that's not a real possibility now.

Ya, but town loses more often from not exiling than from accidental hammers. I get that we have plurality exiles, but we let people get away with saying they will vote for someone, then disappearing and not ending up voting for anyone.

[EFHW]

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

This is making me even more sure of my reads on e and scola. But EFHW was also on the mathdude wagon, which makes this WIFOM if she is scum.

Why didn't you switch to either Dylan or e yesterday?

I said then that I was fine with either Dylan or mathdude. I stayed on math because that was my preference. I wasn't going to vote for e because I thought Dylan's case on him was scummy.

[Galzria]

MiX, how many missexile do we get before we’re in trouble?

Scum has to do 3 more misexiles to win.

Cool. No danger then.

I’m going to quit fighting with y’all about my D1. There is zero that I can do to prove that I’m not scum beyond flipping. I’m unhatched so it’s no big loss.  Besides, Galz isn’t ever going to be convinced. He’s wrong, but he is stubborn in his wrongness. The piling on is probably telling, but that’s not for me to decide. It’s too frustrating to keep answering questions and be told I’m just digging deeper. I don’t even know what that means in this context.

So remove the “woe is me” ETA dripping from this post, and tell me why you’re not scum.

I don’t think I’m stubborn here. I have a list of players that I think had scummy activity yesterday. I’m sure I’m near the top of a lot of people’s as well for my lack of activity. I don’t think it’s prudent to share my list because I don’t want to influence a scum!WCD to latch on to some town that I find scummy… but defend yourself.

If you’re town:

Why did you switch back to Dylan over e? You had a stated town read on Dylan at that point.
Why exactly did you switch off Dylan to begin with? You listed generics, but nothing strongly specific.
Why were you against a 2.718 Exile? What had he done to be townie? A lot of people found him the opposite.
Why did you trust faust? There were a number of things I found scummy about his play by end of B day. Not enough by any means to vote for him, but certainly enough that his presence on Dylan was a factor in my decision to vote Math.
What part of the Math (and 2.718) Wagon composition didn’t you like, and why?

These are all extremely relevant questions for you to answer to demonstrate your thoughts prior to the end of the day. If your town, certainly, but doubly so if you’re scum.

[EFHW]

Like this post by Galzria and also very much appreciate MiX's explication of his reasoning re: faust and Galzria. I still have one question, for MiX, though. Why did you think Galz was the obvious nk choice?

[EFHW]

I disagree with gkrieg here. It seems like an unnecessary risk to encourage X-1s so early. But I can see why he'd want to see a scola vote given how scummy scola has been so far.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t think I’m stubborn here. I have a list of players that I think had scummy activity yesterday. I’m sure I’m near the top of a lot of people’s as well for my lack of activity. I don’t think it’s prudent to share my list because I don’t want to influence a scum!WCD to latch on to some town that I find scummy… but defend yourself.

If you’re town:

1. Why did you switch back to Dylan over e? You had a stated town read on Dylan at that point.
2. Why exactly did you switch off Dylan to begin with? You listed generics, but nothing strongly specific.
3. Why were you against a 2.718 Exile? What had he done to be townie? A lot of people found him the opposite.
4. Why did you trust faust? There were a number of things I found scummy about his play by end of B day. Not enough by any means to vote for him, but certainly enough that his presence on Dylan was a factor in my decision to vote Math.
5. What part of the Math (and 2.718) Wagon composition didn’t you like, and why?

These are all extremely relevant questions for you to answer to demonstrate your thoughts prior to the end of the day. If your town, certainly, but doubly so if you’re scum.

You haven't been stubborn yet, but you (probably) will be. Just like I almost always misread EFHW, you misread me and usually dig in about it. It's what you do. I don't have a problem with that. I will answer your questions, but as I said before, there is nothing I can do to actually prove you wrong short of a flip. But my issue is not with you, it is with the piling on with no reasonable explanation. So, f that. I am done with responding to them. Mathdude still hasn't answered EFHW's question about what exactly I did to create a "deeper hole". If there is woe is me, it is frustration but in all reality, it really is cool with me if I go. I'm not trying to take my ball and go home, just saying that since I am not hatched, I am no loss. Town will learn more form a hammered exile than a plurality exile and there is pretty much no way that it will happen unless scum is voting for me. So LFG.

I numbered your questions.
1. Why not? I didn't like Joth trying to blackmail me into voting for e, and I didn't find him scummy at all. No one had a compelling argument, and the people I trust most weren't voting there.
2. I already explained that. To me, he started off scummy in terms of presence and lack of substance. Then he had some towny posts (especially the enumerated one) and scola had some scummy ones + lack of engagement.
3. He has been present and involved and I don't find him scummy. This is also why I didn't vote for faust, EFHW, you, mathdude, gkrieg...and pretty much everyone else I didn't vote for.
4. Scum!faust doesn't usually play like he did yesterday (parking his vote and not moving). Scum!faust also generally seems more affable to me. Cranky faust is usually town.
5. e wagon: The MiX/Joth combo went from me to e. I know they were wrong about me, so I am not at all sure why they are right about him. then Joth saying this rubbed me the wrong way:

Didds, if we promise not to CFD to you, will you do us a solid and vote for e?

mathdude wagon... eh, I could have moved here. but that would have been pointless. And I am not sure how I feel about Swowl yet. I trust EFHW, but not as much as I trusted faust.

As far as my thoughts.... I wasn't having any big thoughts.  Dylan was going to be the plurality exile. I didn't see any reason to derail that with what information I had and my gut feelings. In retrospect, I should have just stayed on Scola since that is what I really thought but my VCA mentality makes a lone vote hard to stomach and I don't like being uncooperative.

[jotheonah]

I was thinking of it less as blackmail and more as just cutting a deal. But I recognize it probably looked a lot different to you, given that there was a threat or implied threat of exile for you. So, sorry.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m not mad, Joth. I thought it was playful, but also revealing, you know?

[MiX]

OTOH, I'm a bit mad. Maybe a bit more diplomacy would've flipped e instead of Dylan.

[Galzria]

You say you had found faust more grumpy/adament/cranky (which is town!faust).

I was *highly* suspicious of faust when he didn’t rage!vote my Mathdude vote towards the end of the day (his response is at #465). I had read and caught up, analyzed my preference to Wagon, etc. A small part of my singular vote after the prod was to see how faust reacted.

What’s your take on his reaction to my vote (but not really post)?

[WestCoastDidds]

No reaction. I don’t remember it.

[Swowl]

Hi all.

I again apologize for my lack of posting for much of D1. Early on it was more than I didn't have anything compelling to add and then later got very busy and have been on vacation week (nothing exotic, but some visiting with friends). I did get flustered by being called "extremely rude" without being left any space for legit reasons, especially in light if the fact that I feel like I usually do an ok job of posting regularly. But whatever, faust is gone now anyway, so no sense in debating hat now.

If WCD wasn't already on X-2, I'd be willing to vote for her based on today's posts. I do need to find time to catch up on D1 some.

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I think you should probably just vote for her, if you say you are willing to. I don't know why people are so worried about putting people on X-1 early in the day, especially if it is basically your only read.

Because Swowl will come in and hammer without thinking.

Don't tell me that's not a real possibility now.

I have literally never accidently hammered in my life.
I forgot this started today.  Out and about this evening but I will get to it tomorrow.

[2.71828.....]

OTOH, I'm a bit mad. Maybe a bit more diplomacy would've flipped e instead of Dylan.

We should have flipped math over Dylan is my thought.

To be honest, I could see all three D1 wagons being on town. We know Dylan is town. I know I am town. Math I am not sure about.

But there were just no other real wagons. Didds was voted for with no traction. Gkrieg was voted for with no traction. This is one reason I mentioned all the stagnate D1 votes. I also like Didds' responses here, so let's go to

Vote: swowl

[mathdude]

(snip)

(snip)
But my issue is not with you, it is with the piling on with no reasonable explanation. So, f that. I am done with responding to them. Mathdude still hasn't answered EFHW's question about what exactly I did to create a "deeper hole". If there is woe is me, it is frustration but in all reality, it really is cool with me if I go. I'm not trying to take my ball and go home, just saying that since I am not hatched, I am no loss. Town will learn more form a hammered exile than a plurality exile and there is pretty much no way that it will happen unless scum is voting for me. So LFG.
(more snip)

You're right, I hadn't clarified my comment about digging a deeper hole yet... a couple hours later.  Finally getting to it, and I might as well make it a good one.  I went back and read all your D2 posts, and I think almost every one of them did not sit right with me.  Yes, we have different play styles, but they just seem "not you".  So get comfy... here's a long-ish read.

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

I get the casual, friendly banter that you do.  But this was MiX-ian style "you're dead wrong" that I don't expect from you.  2.71 wasn't the first to pair the 2 of you... I mentioned it yesterday as well.  So unless he's sheeping my read there, which I doubt it, then there's something to it even if you don't see it.

(snip)
The reason I said it didn’t make a difference when I moved back to Dylan was because he was already going to be the exile. So, it didn’t make a difference. Obviously I could have voted for e and it would have made a difference, but I didn’t think he had done anything scummy, I don’t like his wagon, and I most trusted faust.

I said that I found Dylan’s most recent posts towny just before I moved off of him, and that was and is true. But I thought e was townier than Dylan was, so among those two, a better guess. I’m not surprised he’s town.

With the plurality exile, VCA isn’t as powerful. Scum wouldn’t even need to join one of the leading wagons unless it was to prevent one of their own. So, you think e is my partner? That was the only person I protected by voting how/when I did. And e running up a wagon on me now, right out of the gate, is smart partner play?

Just because Dylan was "already going to be the exile" doesn't mean it didn't make a difference.  Where your vote sits at any point always makes a difference of how we read you.  But also, at the time you voted, the votes weren't final, so it still could have made a difference.  Trying to shrug that off?

I disagree about plurality VCA not being powerful.  With the way it's setup here, some weird shenanigans can happen with vote changes near the end.  It's very possible that people (scum or not) can mess around with things.  So I think every single vote change, especially in the last few hours, will be very useful to look at.

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

For Galz to be right, I’d have to have voted to protect e. So, the better question is are both e and I scum together?

Again, this response - not something I expect out of you.  You are questioning whether you and 2.71 could be scum together, when joth just pointed out that it could be possible.  Also, I think the question that you're asking is more likely to come from scum than from town.

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I could definitely see them both being scum.

Cool, then vote for e.

so then you notice joth's comment, and tell him to vote for 2.71.  I get that you're frustrated with all the votes on your at this point, but this doesn't look like a great defense.  Others have commented on this response already though, so I won't add any more.

MiX, how many missexile do we get before we’re in trouble?

Again, another question I think is more likely to come from scum than town.

MiX, how many missexile do we get before we’re in trouble?

Scum has to do 3 more misexiles to win.

Cool. No danger then.

I’m going to quit fighting with y’all about my D1. There is zero that I can do to prove that I’m not scum beyond flipping. I’m unhatched so it’s no big loss.  Besides, Galz isn’t ever going to be convinced. He’s wrong, but he is stubborn in his wrongness. The piling on is probably telling, but that’s not for me to decide. It’s too frustrating to keep answering questions and be told I’m just digging deeper. I don’t even know what that means in this context.

I'm not talking about your D1... maybe others are, but it's your D2 that's big for me.  But being unhatched is definitely not "no big loss" if you are town.  As far as anyone knew, faust hadn't hatched.  Scum got lucky, and not only picked off a town that hatched, but they also eliminated a good power role.  You may have another good role, and if so, losing you would be a big loss, hatched or not (since you can only hatch and become useful if you're still alive).

Scola is my best guess for scum. From the Dylan wagon, mathdude > gkrieg. But there didn’t have to be any scum on it. Mathdude went up on my list when he voted for me with the digging deeper bit. It’s following the pack without actually making any argument at all so no skin in the game.

Enough skin in the game for you?  Basically nothing you've said D2 has felt like typical Didds that I'm used to seeing.  I guess I haven't seen you under pressure much, but you just seem off in all these quoted posts.

[mathdude]

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

Conveniently be away long enough for us to get stuck on other(s) for D2, and slide by another day?  I get that exiling inactives gives less VCA and less chance to catch scum, but I still don't know why we didn't switch to voting you yesterday.  You were actively being inactive.  And now it's happening again.

[mathdude]

OTOH, I'm a bit mad. Maybe a bit more diplomacy would've flipped e instead of Dylan.

We should have flipped math over Dylan is my thought.

To be honest, I could see all three D1 wagons being on town. We know Dylan is town. I know I am town. Math I am not sure about.

But there were just no other real wagons. Didds was voted for with no traction. Gkrieg was voted for with no traction. This is one reason I mentioned all the stagnate D1 votes. I also like Didds' responses here, so let's go to

Vote: swowl

We should have flipped 2.71 over Dylan.  Or MiX.  Or Didds.  Or pasta.  Hindsight is great to say we shouldn't have flipped Dylan.

But now if you're comparing me, you, and Dylan... I'm sure that me and Dylan are town, but I'm not sure about you.

[2.71828.....]

OTOH, I'm a bit mad. Maybe a bit more diplomacy would've flipped e instead of Dylan.

We should have flipped math over Dylan is my thought.

To be honest, I could see all three D1 wagons being on town. We know Dylan is town. I know I am town. Math I am not sure about.

But there were just no other real wagons. Didds was voted for with no traction. Gkrieg was voted for with no traction. This is one reason I mentioned all the stagnate D1 votes. I also like Didds' responses here, so let's go to

Vote: swowl

We should have flipped 2.71 over Dylan.  Or MiX.  Or Didds.  Or pasta.  Hindsight is great to say we shouldn't have flipped Dylan.

But now if you're comparing me, you, and Dylan... I'm sure that me and Dylan are town, but I'm not sure about you.

I don't feel like I am necessarily comparing as I am taking the position it is quite possible all three main wagons at EoD1 were on town.

What do you think of that possibility?

[mathdude]

I don't feel like I am necessarily comparing as I am taking the position it is quite possible all three main wagons at EoD1 were on town.

What do you think of that possibility?

Asking you or me that question is just a convoluted way of asking "do you think ther other is town or scum?" At this point, I'm unsure about you... could go either way.

[infangthief]

I'm out for most of today/tomorrow - looks like there's good stuff going on for me to catch up on when I get back.

[jotheonah]

OTOH, I'm a bit mad. Maybe a bit more diplomacy would've flipped e instead of Dylan.

We should have flipped math over Dylan is my thought.

To be honest, I could see all three D1 wagons being on town. We know Dylan is town. I know I am town. Math I am not sure about.

But there were just no other real wagons. Didds was voted for with no traction. Gkrieg was voted for with no traction. This is one reason I mentioned all the stagnate D1 votes. I also like Didds' responses here, so let's go to

Vote: swowl

I know that some element of this is confirmation bias, but e moving off Didds here really makes me sure they're partners.

[WestCoastDidds]

Enough skin in the game for you?  Basically nothing you've said D2 has felt like typical Didds that I'm used to seeing.  I guess I haven't seen you under pressure much, but you just seem off in all these quoted posts.

That is a super long message that comes down to seems and feels. Here's the thing...I have been scum 4 out of the last 5 games we have played. And in the town game I was a mason with MiX, so there was zero doubt about my alignment from anyone. And in that game YOU were scum so I don't imagine you were developing a nuanced sense of my town game since you wouldn't have cared.  So, it has been since Mid-2020 when we played Memento that I have been for reals town. I think that since most of your play with us has been in recent years, and during the vast majority of that time I have been scum, that you may want to reassess your feels and seems. For me to be off, you have to know what on really looks like.

[WestCoastDidds]

I know that some element of this is confirmation bias, but e moving off Didds here really makes me sure they're partners.

Joth! Shhhhhh!

[WestCoastDidds]

Enough skin in the game for you?  Basically nothing you've said D2 has felt like typical Didds that I'm used to seeing.  I guess I haven't seen you under pressure much, but you just seem off in all these quoted posts.

That is a super long message that comes down to seems and feels. Here's the thing...I have been scum 4 out of the last 5 games we have played. And in the town game I was a mason with MiX, so there was zero doubt about my alignment from anyone. And in that game YOU were scum so I don't imagine you were developing a nuanced sense of my town game since you wouldn't have cared.  So, it has been since Mid-2020 when we played Memento that I have been for reals town. I think that since most of your play with us has been in recent years, and during the vast majority of that time I have been scum, that you may want to reassess your feels and seems. For me to be off, you have to know what on really looks like.

I forgot about the Wizard of Oz. I was town then.
So, town in Among us and Wizard of Oz. Scum in Groundhog Day, Mouse Mafia, BSG2, and Dwarf

[EFHW]

Vote: e

vote: mathdude

Joth, please explain why you broke the mathdude wagon a couple of hours before deadline.

Looking at the wagon analysis, this also stood out to me as a turning point. Joth answered:

{snip} But I didn't (and don't) particularly think mathdude is scum. So I don't really feel bad about it either way.

So I'm wondering why he was on the math wagon at all.

[jotheonah]

I think I did answer that.

If I had fully grokked at the time how the plurality exile worked and how ties were resolved I probably would not have moved.

But since I didn't, I wanted to move to mathdude, who I thought was more likely to be scum than Dylan, rather than stay on e and let Dylan be the exile. The e wagon did not seem to be going anywhere and Dylan was gaining traction despite, in my eyes, being a nothing wagon. The mathdude wagon wasn't much better, but people at least had reasons that made sense.

There was also a particular mathdude vote, shortly before I voted for him, that pinged me for some reason. Possibly for convoluted partnery reasons. But it made me want to pressure vote him a bit.

[EFHW]

But I'm really confused about why fang left the math wagon for e. He'd been pushing a math exile all day and when Galzria joined, it made the numbers math (5), Dylan (4), e (1), Didds (1) and scola (1).

joth leaving and MiX moving his vote yielded math (4), Dylan (4), e (2), and scola (1). There were still 4 people who could vote math, even if no one on the Dylan wagon wanted to switch. Why give up so quickly? And would math lose that tie?

This is our discussion about it:

vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)

Why not just vote Dylan?

I'm not following your reasoning here.

If any of these three wagons (Dylan, e or mathdude, or any other wagon that materialises) is on scum, then we're getting good info here from people's reactions as we approach deadline.

When I turned up an hour ago (escaped from my parallel universe), no-one had said anything in like half an hour, so it seemed like things would just stay as they were, and Dylan would show up, vote mathdude, no responsibility attached because it would have been self preservation.

So it was in that context.
Since then everything has kicked off, which is probably good.

But fang seemed like he really wanted to exile math. Even if Dylan's vote was self-preservation, fang should expect that we would catch scum. Totally worth it. And if he thought Dylan was scum, too, or also likely, why vote e? I'm missing something here.

[EFHW]

I think I did answer that.

If I had fully grokked at the time how the plurality exile worked and how ties were resolved I probably would not have moved.

But since I didn't, I wanted to move to mathdude, who I thought was more likely to be scum than Dylan, rather than stay on e and let Dylan be the exile. The e wagon did not seem to be going anywhere and Dylan was gaining traction despite, in my eyes, being a nothing wagon. The mathdude wagon wasn't much better, but people at least had reasons that made sense.

There was also a particular mathdude vote, shortly before I voted for him, that pinged me for some reason. Possibly for convoluted partnery reasons. But it made me want to pressure vote him a bit.

thanks

[Galzria]

But I'm really confused about why fang left the math wagon for e. He'd been pushing a math exile all day and when Galzria joined, it made the numbers math (5), Dylan (4), e (1), Didds (1) and scola (1).

joth leaving and MiX moving his vote yielded math (4), Dylan (4), e (2), and scola (1). There were still 4 people who could vote math, even if no one on the Dylan wagon wanted to switch. Why give up so quickly? And would math lose that tie?

This is our discussion about it:

vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)

Why not just vote Dylan?

I'm not following your reasoning here.

If any of these three wagons (Dylan, e or mathdude, or any other wagon that materialises) is on scum, then we're getting good info here from people's reactions as we approach deadline.

When I turned up an hour ago (escaped from my parallel universe), no-one had said anything in like half an hour, so it seemed like things would just stay as they were, and Dylan would show up, vote mathdude, no responsibility attached because it would have been self preservation.

So it was in that context.
Since then everything has kicked off, which is probably good.

But fang seemed like he really wanted to exile math. Even if Dylan's vote was self-preservation, fang should expect that we would catch scum. Totally worth it. And if he thought Dylan was scum, too, or also likely, why vote e? I'm missing something here.

Interesting food for thought.

[scolapasta]

yeah, gkrieg's suggestion I vote WCD already to X-1 seems sketch.

WCD, what's your reasoning for thinking I'm scum? Is it just my lack of posting D1?

[WestCoastDidds]

yeah, gkrieg's suggestion I vote WCD already to X-1 seems sketch.

WCD, what's your reasoning for thinking I'm scum? Is it just my lack of posting D1?

Agree

Mostly yes, and the tentativeness of the content when you did post.

[Galzria]

yeah, gkrieg's suggestion I vote WCD already to X-1 seems sketch.

WCD, what's your reasoning for thinking I'm scum? Is it just my lack of posting D1?

Is it sketch if WCD is scum? Or only if she's town?

[Swowl]

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

Faust seems like a good choice regardless. Your reasoning makes sense, but like... did you think faust was skummy?
I certainly did not think so reading back at night.

[Swowl]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

For Galz to be right, I’d have to have voted to protect e. So, the better question is are both e and I scum together?

you forgot to include the possibility that E! could be skum and you could be town...
I mean so did Galz... but he is pushing you specifically.

[Swowl]

Looking at the wagons, I see a few options.

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If e is scum:

• Scum is likely late on Dylan's wagon, like WCD or mathdude.
• Joth expertly moved exiles to ensure Dylan was exiled.

To me, it looked more like e is town, which also plays into my slight townread on mathdude, and my perception of how joth plays.

I think we should probably look at the mathdude wagon + scola for scum today.

So ifsofactso - you are leaning all town wagons eod1?

[Swowl]

You say you had found faust more grumpy/adament/cranky (which is town!faust).

I was *highly* suspicious of faust when he didn’t rage!vote my Mathdude vote towards the end of the day (his response is at #465). I had read and caught up, analyzed my preference to Wagon, etc. A small part of my singular vote after the prod was to see how faust reacted.

What’s your take on his reaction to my vote (but not really post)?

So did you not think that Math was the best of the options? like did you forego voting your best skum read just to get a reaction from faust by voting math?

[gkrieg13]

yeah, gkrieg's suggestion I vote WCD already to X-1 seems sketch.

WCD, what's your reasoning for thinking I'm scum? Is it just my lack of posting D1?

I mean, we just came out of a game where we didn't exile 2 of the 3 days, so scum won flawlessly. And mostly, it was because of people not wanting to get wagons going early in the day.

Early wagons at X-1 cause a ton more discussion than X-2 wagons, and if you put X-1 in bold, derphammers are incredibly unlikely.

[gkrieg13]

Looking at the wagons, I see a few options.

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If e is scum:

• Scum is likely late on Dylan's wagon, like WCD or mathdude.
• Joth expertly moved exiles to ensure Dylan was exiled.

To me, it looked more like e is town, which also plays into my slight townread on mathdude, and my perception of how joth plays.

I think we should probably look at the mathdude wagon + scola for scum today.

So ifsofactso - you are leaning all town wagons eod1?

Yes. I think it is unlikely that e is scum, based on EOD1, and I have a slight town read on mathdude.

[gkrieg13]

I disagree with gkrieg here. It seems like an unnecessary risk to encourage X-1s so early. But I can see why he'd want to see a scola vote given how scummy scola has been so far.

It really is twofold. The main part of it is that scola has not really voted yet. The other part of it is a systemic f.ds thing.

[Galzria]

You say you had found faust more grumpy/adament/cranky (which is town!faust).

I was *highly* suspicious of faust when he didn’t rage!vote my Mathdude vote towards the end of the day (his response is at #465). I had read and caught up, analyzed my preference to Wagon, etc. A small part of my singular vote after the prod was to see how faust reacted.

What’s your take on his reaction to my vote (but not really post)?

So did you not think that Math was the best of the options? like did you forego voting your best skum read just to get a reaction from faust by voting math?

Does “a small part of my singular vote” read “just to get a reaction from” to you?

As stated, I had caught up at that time. I had looked at the wagons, looked at the arguments for each of the wagons, looked at who was on all of the wagons, and I made my decision that given less than 8 hours to deadline, with the vote at Dylan (4), Math (4), and 2.718 (2) (myself included), I preferred a math Exile to Dylan, so I voted there. It was after 10:00pm my time, the 2.718 wagon didn’t look like it was coming back, and I was likely to be able to contribute anything in the morning.

The choice to post vote itself, as a singularity, with nothing else attached, was a direct attempt on my part to get a read on faust - because I feel like when he’s town he’s much more likely to rage!vote me there (even if just done to express his frustration before moving his vote back to where he wants it). The fact that he did NOT do that left me suspicious of him.

[Galzria]

You say you had found faust more grumpy/adament/cranky (which is town!faust).

I was *highly* suspicious of faust when he didn’t rage!vote my Mathdude vote towards the end of the day (his response is at #465). I had read and caught up, analyzed my preference to Wagon, etc. A small part of my singular vote after the prod was to see how faust reacted.

What’s your take on his reaction to my vote (but not really post)?

So did you not think that Math was the best of the options? like did you forego voting your best skum read just to get a reaction from faust by voting math?

Does “a small part of my singular vote” read “just to get a reaction from” to you?

As stated, I had caught up at that time. I had looked at the wagons, looked at the arguments for each of the wagons, looked at who was on all of the wagons, and I made my decision that given less than 8 hours to deadline, with the vote at Dylan (4), Math (4), and 2.718 (2) (myself included), I preferred a math Exile to Dylan, so I voted there. It was after 10:00pm my time, the 2.718 wagon didn’t look like it was coming back, and I was UNlikely to be able to contribute anything in the morning.

The choice to post vote itself, as a singularity, with nothing else attached, was a direct attempt on my part to get a read on faust - because I feel like when he’s town he’s much more likely to rage!vote me there (even if just done to express his frustration before moving his vote back to where he wants it). The fact that he did NOT do that left me suspicious of him.

EBWOP

[WestCoastDidds]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

For Galz to be right, I’d have to have voted to protect e. So, the better question is are both e and I scum together?

you forgot to include the possibility that E! could be skum and you could be town...
I mean so did Galz... but he is pushing you specifically.

Yes, obviously he could be scum even if I am town.  I was more expressing bafflement about Glaz's artificial choice that I was either protecting e or hammering e. That doesn't didn't hold up for lots of reasons to me, since the outcome would have been the same even if I had never left Scola.  my hope had been to get folks out of the lull of activity, but it didn't work. Nothing changed and no one committed to anything different. Too little, too late, I guess.  Even if I had voted for mathdude, nothing would have changed. Literally the only thing that could have created change was voting for e, and Galz wants me to defend not voting for him when no one else is being held to that standard.

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 2.1
Cassowary eggs have the thickest shells of any bird, more than half a centimeter thick!

WestCoastDidds (3) : Galzria, jotheonah, mathdude
mathdude (1) : infangthief
scolapasta (1) : gkrieg13
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
 
Not voting (5) : EFHW, MiX, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
 
Currently, WestCoastDidds is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at March 03, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

[Swowl]

You say you had found faust more grumpy/adament/cranky (which is town!faust).

I was *highly* suspicious of faust when he didn’t rage!vote my Mathdude vote towards the end of the day (his response is at #465). I had read and caught up, analyzed my preference to Wagon, etc. A small part of my singular vote after the prod was to see how faust reacted.

What’s your take on his reaction to my vote (but not really post)?

So did you not think that Math was the best of the options? like did you forego voting your best skum read just to get a reaction from faust by voting math?

Does “a small part of my singular vote” read “just to get a reaction from” to you?

I mean I think it is a fair question - I get what you are saying, and then obviously that answers my question…. But I was more like “did you come back and hate all the options so vote math bc faust reaction makes it worth something? Or did you actually think math was a good vote”

Pretty clear now. Probably I could of phrased the question better and saved you a paragraph

[Swowl]

People keep saying “if i had changed my vote, or voted differently, it wouldn’t of mattered”.

Want to point out, since we gotta keep going with the plurality thing, that this is not accurate. I mean, it could be, but we don’t know it.

Pretty sure everyone is smart enough to realize this, but like butterfly effect shit to right?
I’m not saying everyone should hop around all fucking mix style, but also at least two people have said “it wouldn’t of mattered” - and there is no way to know that. It could of mattered, if you need 2 votes to matter and there are two people thinking “it doesn’t matter” then the first voter certainly matters.

I don’t actually think i find any of the “wouldn’t matter” things so far are skummy - but also it should be noted so that it can not be used as a potential smoke shield.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m not saying everyone should hop around all fucking mix style,

That right there is pure gold!

[infangthief]

Right, time to do some catching up.

[infangthief]

First of all, it's kind of counterintuitive that my switching from mathdude to e made Dylan the exile. I didn't want Dylan to be the exile, as I said several times. I wanted e. e is who I was voting for most of the day. I put my vote back where I really wanted it to be, in the hopes that two more people would join me and I would get my ideal exile instead of my second-favorite. And instead, I got my least-favorite, because of a quirk of the rules.

But I didn't (and don't) particularly think mathdude is scum. So I don't really feel bad about it either way.

Wow. A fairly thorough response. Were you expecting to come under pressure for that today?

Also, Dylan was exiled because of "a quirk of the rules"?? Final vote count was Dylan 5, e 4, mathdude 3. That would be a Dylan exile with most rulesets I think.

[scolapasta]

yeah, gkrieg's suggestion I vote WCD already to X-1 seems sketch.

WCD, what's your reasoning for thinking I'm scum? Is it just my lack of posting D1?

I mean, we just came out of a game where we didn't exile 2 of the 3 days, so scum won flawlessly. And mostly, it was because of people not wanting to get wagons going early in the day.

Early wagons at X-1 cause a ton more discussion than X-2 wagons, and if you put X-1 in bold, derphammers are incredibly unlikely.

Sure but in plurality vote, there isn't the trial of no exile. That's a huge difference.

[infangthief]

Also, it wouldn't have affected the outcome anyway.

I want to know why scola didn't vote at all.

Wouldn't have affected the outcome?!!!! What?!

Before you moved your vote, mathdude was on 5, Dylan on 4. mathdude was set to be exiled, unless Dylan (or someone else) reached 6 votes. Didds' move back to Dylan later would not have been enough. I mean obviously we don't know for sure what everyone would have done if votes had been in different places, but...

[infangthief]

I also am getting strong vibes that both joth and fang are town, which means the final wagon against me D1 was all town or MiX is scum. Or I am wrong about joth/fang

Doesn't seem that unlikely that it could be all town - faust had been quite critical of your wagon and I think it is a brave scum player who goes against faust. Or actually, joth said something about doing things just because faust said he shouldn't. Maybe he'd do that as either alignment?

[infangthief]

As much as I like the metaphor of the nest, I am not at all fond of the idea that anyone could be pushed out of the nest to splat on the sidewalk!

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

I want to ask, why? I mean, if you are town then you don't need to say this, you just know that it's wrong. Weird (for you, I think?) to say "that makes no sense". Someone's probably already asked why, I'll read on.

[infangthief]

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

Am also intrigued by MiX's "insight". But isn't MiX always more certain of things than anyone else? But I suspect MiX's reason is not just about on-wagon/off-wagon things.

[infangthief]

Vote: WCD

She left the Dylan wagon when it hit a peak of (5), while Math (the leading backup option) was sitting at (4), with a decent amount is suspicion still surrounding 2.718, who at the time had (2) - to weakly place her vote on Scola - someone it was easy for her to disagree with regarding style, instead of actually making a case for being scum.

She left the Dylan wagon with a statement regarding his (now) towniness, despite having been on him from post #265 to #438, doubling down at #370 with an assertion that an ISO on him reveals he’s done nothing townie.

To me, I get the sense that WCD had all her eggs in a row ready to let fall out of the nest, picked a person (Scola) with whom she would have no problem arguing style differences with - but didn’t actually have to justify as scummy - and sat back to let things play out.

Lastly, in #523, she went back to Dylan (which secured Dylan’s Exile) with a statement that her vote probably didn’t make a difference at this point - which if she hadn’t changed from Scola would be true - Dylan sat at (4) votes with the longest tenure. Except 2.718 ALSO sat at (4), and she could’ve placed her vote there.

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny. I agree that Swowl is not playing in quite his normal way. I get the sense that he and Galz are work-busy, but I’m still wary.

This is normally when I’d follow Mix, but he’s not cooperating with that plan at all.

Vote: Scola


Is the 9am deadline forum time? The “your time” is confusing for me.

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny.

Why do you think so?

Mostly the enumerated list of why he is towny, and especially the point that he has more tryhard as scum.

We are in a weird stasis. I’ll go back to

Vote: Dylan which I don’t think really changes anything but probably it’s not helpful to anyone for me to be hanging on to a solo vote

Interesting. Yes, that does kind of fit with what happened at the end of day.

I'm not surprised that she didn't go to the e wagon, from memory I think she'd been clear about not voting there earlier, so I read her "don't think really changes anything" as just "Dylan is getting exiled whether I add my vote there or not".

But apart from that, this case does kind of hang together. Didds left Dylan because she didn't mind if the exile fell to mathdude instead of Dylan. But then with e and Dylan tied on 4 each she doesn't want to take the chance that a 5th player will join the e wagon... Are we looking at Didds+e team then?

[infangthief]

e, why are you voting Didds?

Rudimentary gut reaction PoE really. With Dylan and faust flipping, I am basically thinking someone in those last 3 votes on Dylan is scum.

I just skimmed a bit of EoD1 and Didds seemed to make a point of being around at the end of the day, which I felt was a bit try-hard town, or, in other words, scummy.

So I voted Didds.

Didds making a point of being around ... er yes, and that final question to me about how strong my e feelings were. Soomehow I felt there was zero chance of her moving to e last minute so the question seemed rather odd. I'm going to go and reread some stuff. Once I've finished catching up. Someone remind me if I forget.

[infangthief]

Oh, that last point was brought up by e himself. Forgot who I was replying to.

So I was thinking Didds+e, but e is contributing to the case on Didds. Hmm.

[infangthief]

This is a solid case. I'm honestly loving the Didds cases, but I was nervous because of my scumread on e. But that was a day 1 case, so maybe it's time to let it go and go for something stronger.

Vote: WCD

joth joining now too? Gah, who do I suspect? joth going out of his way to explain why it's ok for him to switch, seems a bit scummy. What's the Didds wagon up to here, 3 I think. X-3.

[infangthief]

I’m on my phone and it was too hard to snip Galz’s comment. I don’t need to respond to why I was voting Dylan early. That was lurking and I said so.

I moved to Scola because he’s scummy.

Galz says:
Lastly, in #523, she went back to Dylan (which secured Dylan’s Exile) with a statement that her vote probably didn’t make a difference at this point - which if she hadn’t changed from Scola would be true - Dylan sat at (4) votes with the longest tenure. Except 2.718 ALSO sat at (4), and she could’ve placed her vote there.

The reason I said it didn’t make a difference when I moved back to Dylan was because he was already going to be the exile. So, it didn’t make a difference. Obviously I could have voted for e and it would have made a difference, but I didn’t think he had done anything scummy, I don’t like his wagon, and I most trusted faust.

I said that I found Dylan’s most recent posts towny just before I moved off of him, and that was and is true. But I thought e was townier than Dylan was, so among those two, a better guess. I’m not surprised he’s town.

With the plurality exile, VCA isn’t as powerful. Scum wouldn’t even need to join one of the leading wagons unless it was to prevent one of their own. So, you think e is my partner? That was the only person I protected by voting how/when I did. And e running up a wagon on me now, right out of the gate, is smart partner play?

But it is certainly true when if I’m scum, faust is always at the top of my list. That is non-unique, though. Lots of people whack him.

PPE:2

Of course. Ok, yes, perfectly reasonable for Didds to go back for Dylan to prevent an e exile, just for thinking e is more towny than Dylan. I think that accounts for Galzria's case?

[infangthief]

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I could definitely see them both being scum.

Cool, then vote for e.

So that when I flip town you can use that to call yourself town?

It is also interesting how fast MiX went to the absolute statement "can anyone see both Didds and e as town"

I don't think that's how the logic works with what Didds said.

Yeh, I don't think I get what's behind MiX's question. Maybe I'll look at it again later.

[infangthief]

As much as I like the metaphor of the nest, I am not at all fond of the idea that anyone could be pushed out of the nest to splat on the sidewalk!

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

The call makes sense to me.  I believe I mentioned yesterday that it seemed MiX and Didds were partners.

And the talk today still has me thinking it's Didds.  It's like she's dug a deeper hole rather than helping her case.

Vote: Didds

Ah, mathdude completes the set of suspicious folk piling on Didds. I've gone right off the Didds wagon.

"The talk today".
"It's like she's dug a deeper hole". Well, I think Didds' responses pulled her right out of the hole.

[2.71828.....]

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

[infangthief]

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

No one responded to this. Is it off somehow?

I think it is all a bit of speculation. Is it what you talked about with your scum partners during the night?

I was about to add you to my list of people who camped out on one person most all of D1. Going back and reading your D1 send townie enough though

This one is interesting. I don't think I've seen anything like this from e before...

[infangthief]

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

Oo, thanks. I've never done this kind of read-and-comment thing before, but it is kind of fun, but then I worry that I'm commenting on too many things and making a boring load of stuff for people to trawl through / skip over, and maybe people will have already said the stuff. Hopefully there is something fresh somewhere.

Still about 80 posts till I'm caught up. Back into the pit.

[infangthief]

If WCD wasn't already on X-2, I'd be willing to vote for her based on today's posts. I do need to find time to catch up on D1 some.

Based on today's posts by her? Do you agree with mathdude's assessment that she has been digging herself deeper?
Or based on people's cases against her? Galzria's? e's?

[2.71828.....]

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

Oo, thanks. I've never done this kind of read-and-comment thing before, but it is kind of fun, but then I worry that I'm commenting on too many things and making a boring load of stuff for people to trawl through / skip over, and maybe people will have already said the stuff. Hopefully there is something fresh somewhere.

Still about 80 posts till I'm caught up. Back into the pit.

I have a bias for activity=town

[infangthief]

Looking at the wagons, I see a few options.

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If e is scum:

• Scum is likely late on Dylan's wagon, like WCD or mathdude.
• Joth expertly moved exiles to ensure Dylan was exiled.

To me, it looked more like e is town, which also plays into my slight townread on mathdude, and my perception of how joth plays.

I think we should probably look at the mathdude wagon + scola for scum today.

Looks like a helpful summary.

Couple of questions:
In what sense are you using "expertly" for joth's move? Expertly good play or expert scum play?
When you say "it looked more like e is town", do you mean just considering the options you went through above, or some other reason?

[infangthief]

And now I have reached the point where gkrieg is doing a read-and-comment on day 2.
So I am doing a read-and-comment on gkrieg's read-and-comment. Hmm.
When (if?) scolapasta turns up, he'll get to take that to another level again.

[infangthief]

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

I think Galzria was the obvious kill there. That's basically my reason behind voting him, and then unvoting him now that I saw faust was not going to be voted this game.

I'm not following this. Between voting galz and unvoting galz, where did you ``see'' that faust was not going to be voted this game?

I was ISOing faust, and I saw his reply to Dylan saying faust is town. So I thought about how faust was perceived in the thread, and I didn't remember any scumreads being given out. Especially at EoD, people were mostly...angry at his stubbornness. Angry's not the right word, but you know. And then I went back to what I thought of faust at the end, and I was a bit annoyed, but never did I consider faust to be scum, even after the flip. So overall faust was a good nightkill, at least theoretically, and that was enough for me to unvote galz.

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I'm obviously repeating what I said in recent posts, but it seems like they are either both town or both scum.

I agree, but I'm not very confident in it. I would rather find another scum that I'm more confident in. But this seems like an important question for now and possibly all of D2.

Ah, now I see why you say faust was killed. Cool. Maybe.

MiX, do you always do this much reviewing and reading and stuff after the day ends?

And then, can you explain your last paragraph there please? What are you agreeing with, but not very confident about?

[MiX]

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

Oo, thanks. I've never done this kind of read-and-comment thing before, but it is kind of fun, but then I worry that I'm commenting on too many things and making a boring load of stuff for people to trawl through / skip over, and maybe people will have already said the stuff. Hopefully there is something fresh somewhere.

Still about 80 posts till I'm caught up. Back into the pit.

I like this a lot. I think you're confirmed town and I would be very surprised you live tonight after this.

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

I think Galzria was the obvious kill there. That's basically my reason behind voting him, and then unvoting him now that I saw faust was not going to be voted this game.

I'm not following this. Between voting galz and unvoting galz, where did you ``see'' that faust was not going to be voted this game?

I was ISOing faust, and I saw his reply to Dylan saying faust is town. So I thought about how faust was perceived in the thread, and I didn't remember any scumreads being given out. Especially at EoD, people were mostly...angry at his stubbornness. Angry's not the right word, but you know. And then I went back to what I thought of faust at the end, and I was a bit annoyed, but never did I consider faust to be scum, even after the flip. So overall faust was a good nightkill, at least theoretically, and that was enough for me to unvote galz.

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I'm obviously repeating what I said in recent posts, but it seems like they are either both town or both scum.

I agree, but I'm not very confident in it. I would rather find another scum that I'm more confident in. But this seems like an important question for now and possibly all of D2.

Ah, now I see why you say faust was killed. Cool. Maybe.

MiX, do you always do this much reviewing and reading and stuff after the day ends?

And then, can you explain your last paragraph there please? What are you agreeing with, but not very confident about?

I reread faust in the morning, evidenced by my voting and unvoting of Galzria.

That e and Didds are both town or both scum

[infangthief]

Hi all.

I again apologize for my lack of posting for much of D1. Early on it was more than I didn't have anything compelling to add and then later got very busy and have been on vacation week (nothing exotic, but some visiting with friends). I did get flustered by being called "extremely rude" without being left any space for legit reasons, especially in light if the fact that I feel like I usually do an ok job of posting regularly. But whatever, faust is gone now anyway, so no sense in debating hat now.

If WCD wasn't already on X-2, I'd be willing to vote for her based on today's posts. I do need to find time to catch up on D1 some.

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I think you should probably just vote for her, if you say you are willing to. I don't know why people are so worried about putting people on X-1 early in the day, especially if it is basically your only read.

+1. Strongly agree.

Actually, that reminds me, when e was on 4 votes early day 1 and said "I'm only on 4 votes, 4 votes is nothing", why did no-one pile on?? Would have been a no-brainer for some people. Where is Awaclus?

And on that (probably controversial) note, I'm stopping for today.

[EFHW]

But I'm really confused about why fang left the math wagon for e. He'd been pushing a math exile all day and when Galzria joined, it made the numbers math (5), Dylan (4), e (1), Didds (1) and scola (1).

joth leaving and MiX moving his vote yielded math (4), Dylan (4), e (2), and scola (1). There were still 4 people who could vote math, even if no one on the Dylan wagon wanted to switch. Why give up so quickly? And would math lose that tie?

This is our discussion about it:

vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)

Why not just vote Dylan?

I'm not following your reasoning here.

If any of these three wagons (Dylan, e or mathdude, or any other wagon that materialises) is on scum, then we're getting good info here from people's reactions as we approach deadline.

When I turned up an hour ago (escaped from my parallel universe), no-one had said anything in like half an hour, so it seemed like things would just stay as they were, and Dylan would show up, vote mathdude, no responsibility attached because it would have been self preservation.

So it was in that context.
Since then everything has kicked off, which is probably good.

But fang seemed like he really wanted to exile math. Even if Dylan's vote was self-preservation, fang should expect that we would catch scum. Totally worth it. And if he thought Dylan was scum, too, or also likely, why vote e? I'm missing something here.

@fang, Do you have a response to this?

[EFHW]

Like this post by Galzria and also very much appreciate MiX's explication of his reasoning re: faust and Galzria. I still have one question, for MiX, though. Why did you think Galz was the obvious nk choice?

@MiX, I don't think you answered this.

[MiX]

Like this post by Galzria and also very much appreciate MiX's explication of his reasoning re: faust and Galzria. I still have one question, for MiX, though. Why did you think Galz was the obvious nk choice?

@MiX, I don't think you answered this.

Weird, I thought I had.

Because of the early Galzria discussion. People talked back and forth about my blunt townread on him, but no one scumread him. A lurking D1 Galz is an excellent NK target since it removes a player from the game without giving away information.

[mathdude]

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

Oo, thanks. I've never done this kind of read-and-comment thing before, but it is kind of fun, but then I worry that I'm commenting on too many things and making a boring load of stuff for people to trawl through / skip over, and maybe people will have already said the stuff. Hopefully there is something fresh somewhere.

Still about 80 posts till I'm caught up. Back into the pit.

I have a bias for activity=town

I'm finding that I do too... to a limit.  At some point, too much activity starts looking scummy again to me.

[Swowl]

Didds - how you feeling about galz? and mix?

[mathdude]

People keep saying “if i had changed my vote, or voted differently, it wouldn’t of mattered”.

Want to point out, since we gotta keep going with the plurality thing, that this is not accurate. I mean, it could be, but we don’t know it.

Pretty sure everyone is smart enough to realize this, but like butterfly effect shit to right?
I’m not saying everyone should hop around all fucking mix style, but also at least two people have said “it wouldn’t of mattered” - and there is no way to know that. It could of mattered, if you need 2 votes to matter and there are two people thinking “it doesn’t matter” then the first voter certainly matters.

I don’t actually think i find any of the “wouldn’t matter” things so far are skummy - but also it should be noted so that it can not be used as a potential smoke shield.

I think I mentioned this briefly earlier, but you put it much more eloquently.  Unless you're posting 30 seconds from the deadline (at which point, your vote actually doesn't matter if it won't change who's exiled)... but posting any earlier than that, especially on the order of hours, definitely has an effect.

[mathdude]

yeah, gkrieg's suggestion I vote WCD already to X-1 seems sketch.

WCD, what's your reasoning for thinking I'm scum? Is it just my lack of posting D1?

I mean, we just came out of a game where we didn't exile 2 of the 3 days, so scum won flawlessly. And mostly, it was because of people not wanting to get wagons going early in the day.

Early wagons at X-1 cause a ton more discussion than X-2 wagons, and if you put X-1 in bold, derphammers are incredibly unlikely.

Sure but in plurality vote, there isn't the trial of no exile. That's a huge difference.

Thank you for your very detailed contribution to this discussion!

[mathdude]

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

I was noticing a stalling a bit too.  Is that just a weekend thing?  Maybe someone can say something controversial so we can get a good discussion going again?

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds - how you feeling about galz? and mix?

I am uncertain about Galz. He wasn’t around most of D1, and today he’s firing for me. But I don’t really find it scummy, just wrong. It doesn’t seem forced, just too circumstantial. So, slight town.

MiX Hasn’t been wildly voting or making a whole bunch of MiXian pronouncements, so that’s different. He also had this kind of throwaway comment about kind of wanting to defend me, and then went silent when all the piling on started except to agree with the hole digging comment. It was noncommittal. Which is anti-MiX. So, slight scum.

But I’m still not ready to actually vote.

Fang with the good work! +1
Would fangwife ever want to play with us?!?

[mathdude]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

[Galzria]

Unvote

Won’t have much time to get to this until Monday. Still chewing over my thoughts on WCD. [Fang, Joth, Scola, e, MiX, math] are the others outside of WCD that I’m feeling off feelings for due to one thing or another. I know that list is pretty big, but it leaves EFHW, Swowl & Gkrieg as being more townie than not to me right now, and that’s at least something for me to help calibrate.

[infangthief]

But I'm really confused about why fang left the math wagon for e. He'd been pushing a math exile all day and when Galzria joined, it made the numbers math (5), Dylan (4), e (1), Didds (1) and scola (1).

joth leaving and MiX moving his vote yielded math (4), Dylan (4), e (2), and scola (1). There were still 4 people who could vote math, even if no one on the Dylan wagon wanted to switch. Why give up so quickly? And would math lose that tie?

This is our discussion about it:

vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)

Why not just vote Dylan?

I'm not following your reasoning here.

If any of these three wagons (Dylan, e or mathdude, or any other wagon that materialises) is on scum, then we're getting good info here from people's reactions as we approach deadline.

When I turned up an hour ago (escaped from my parallel universe), no-one had said anything in like half an hour, so it seemed like things would just stay as they were, and Dylan would show up, vote mathdude, no responsibility attached because it would have been self preservation.

So it was in that context.
Since then everything has kicked off, which is probably good.

But fang seemed like he really wanted to exile math. Even if Dylan's vote was self-preservation, fang should expect that we would catch scum. Totally worth it. And if he thought Dylan was scum, too, or also likely, why vote e? I'm missing something here.

@fang, Do you have a response to this?

Er, ok. You're saying lots of things.

When joth moved from mathdude to e, that put mathdude on 4 and e on 3 (not 2 as you say - MiX had joined the e wagon by then), with Dylan set to be exiled because he'd been on 4 for longer than mathdude.

So 4 on mathdude if I don't move, 4 on e if I move. Been wavering on which of those I preferred all day. Yeh, my stated reason for moving to e there is pretty bad. What I'm annoyed about is that I didn't challenge joth there and then, to find out whether his mathdude-saving move was intentional or not.

[infangthief]

There's another thing going on, EFHW.

Since you said "I agree with fang about mathdude, except one thing" on day 1, it seems like you've been assuming I'm thinking the same as you about everything.
- You assumed I was scum-reading mathdude at that time. But I wasn't, not until you presented your case on him.
- You don't think e is scum, but I do. Or I did yesterday, at least.

[infangthief]

A thought.

Joth, when you're modding a game, how much do you read what people post? Do you just scan looking for things in bold, or do you read everything?

[EFHW]

There's another thing going on, EFHW.

Since you said "I agree with fang about mathdude, except one thing" on day 1, it seems like you've been assuming I'm thinking the same as you about everything.
- You assumed I was scum-reading mathdude at that time. But I wasn't, not until you presented your case on him.
- You don't think e is scum, but I do. Or I did yesterday, at least.

Really? Your long post on mathdude wasn't a scumread? I'll look at it again, but why are you saying that I think that we agree on everything? I'm sure I just meant everything in the post I was commenting on.

[jotheonah]

A thought.

Joth, when you're modding a game, how much do you read what people post? Do you just scan looking for things in bold, or do you read everything?

I’ll occasionally skim a long wall post, but other than that I read everything. Which is also the case when I’m a player (sorry).

[jotheonah]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I’ve got a good feeling about him. Seems pretty towny.

[gkrieg13]

Looking at the wagons, I see a few options.

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If e is scum:

• Scum is likely late on Dylan's wagon, like WCD or mathdude.
• Joth expertly moved exiles to ensure Dylan was exiled.

To me, it looked more like e is town, which also plays into my slight townread on mathdude, and my perception of how joth plays.

I think we should probably look at the mathdude wagon + scola for scum today.

Looks like a helpful summary.

Couple of questions:
In what sense are you using "expertly" for joth's move? Expertly good play or expert scum play?
When you say "it looked more like e is town", do you mean just considering the options you went through above, or some other reason?

I'm saying it would be expert scum play from joth, depending on potential partners, but something that I don't think joth thinks about.

Based on what I said above, and how the end of the day looked, it points to e being town.

[gkrieg13]

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

I was noticing a stalling a bit too.  Is that just a weekend thing?  Maybe someone can say something controversial so we can get a good discussion going again?

It might also be stalling because the main wagon (WCD) has stalled, but there are people calling her scummy but not voting for her, so people on the wagon do not want to leave it, but people not on the wagon are not joining it because they don't want it to get any closer to exile, even though at this point she is X-3...

[gkrieg13]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I think I already elaborated a little, I think there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, pretty neutral.

[gkrieg13]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

What are your thoughts on joth?

[infangthief]

I'm caught up now, I think.

Didds, why did you ask me about e at end of day 1. I'll go find the quote...

Fang, do you have strong e feelings?

And also you asked MiX.

What was behind these questions?

[infangthief]

Looking at the wagons, I see a few options.

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If e is scum:

• Scum is likely late on Dylan's wagon, like WCD or mathdude.
• Joth expertly moved exiles to ensure Dylan was exiled.

To me, it looked more like e is town, which also plays into my slight townread on mathdude, and my perception of how joth plays.

I think we should probably look at the mathdude wagon + scola for scum today.

Looks like a helpful summary.

Couple of questions:
In what sense are you using "expertly" for joth's move? Expertly good play or expert scum play?
When you say "it looked more like e is town", do you mean just considering the options you went through above, or some other reason?

I'm saying it would be expert scum play from joth, depending on potential partners, but something that I don't think joth thinks about.

Based on what I said above, and how the end of the day looked, it points to e being town.

Ok. Can we take things a bit further by seeing how "if mathdude is scum" changes your first list:

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If mathdude is scum then I think this becomes:

• Scum has a big reason to see one of those exiles happen, so I would expect them to be on one of those wagons.
  

Your second list also changes if mathdude is scum (as well as e), but at this point we'd be hunting for the 3rd scum, which is maybe a bit far-fetched.

[jotheonah]

I think we're just stalled because we got to Didds really quickly and people hate to end the day quickly because they want days to be as long as possible so that end of the day re-reads are as terrible as possible. But now I think enough time has passed that people who still think Didds is scummy should vote for Didds.

[infangthief]

I do think scum!WCD is willing to save her partner scum!e, like she did.

What does this mean?

It looks to me like you are saying that you think WCD and e are both scum. But elsewhere you are saying that you think e is likely town, and that people who think WCD is scum should be voting for her, which you're not.

Am I missing something?

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm caught up now, I think.

Didds, why did you ask me about e at end of day 1. I'll go find the quote...

Fang, do you have strong e feelings?

And also you asked MiX.

What was behind these questions?

I was wondering why people who were not Joth were on the e wagon and how stongly they felt about it. I had some towny feelings about Dylan by that point, so I was open to listening but no one had anything convincing to say.

[infangthief]

I think we're just stalled because we got to Didds really quickly and people hate to end the day quickly because they want days to be as long as possible so that end of the day re-reads are as terrible as possible. But now I think enough time has passed that people who still think Didds is scummy should vote for Didds.

The bolded bit. Er, what?

[infangthief]

There's another thing going on, EFHW.

Since you said "I agree with fang about mathdude, except one thing" on day 1, it seems like you've been assuming I'm thinking the same as you about everything.
- You assumed I was scum-reading mathdude at that time. But I wasn't, not until you presented your case on him.
- You don't think e is scum, but I do. Or I did yesterday, at least.

Really? Your long post on mathdude wasn't a scumread? I'll look at it again, but why are you saying that I think that we agree on everything? I'm sure I just meant everything in the post I was commenting on.

Yeh, short posts is the way to go. No-one has ever followed a single long post I have ever made.

Just those two bullet-points above. I don't know how to explain further.

[infangthief]

The thing I don't get about the Didds + e theory is why would Didds even move away from the Dylan wagon (to scolapasta) in that case.

Dylan was on 5 (including Didds), e on 2 (Dylan and Galzria) and mathdude on 4.
Both joth and I had said we were prepared to move from mathdude to e (at #415 and #434). So Didds moving off Dylan at #438 seems an unnecessary risk if e is her partner.

That bit through there is at least worth a reread.

[jotheonah]

I think we're just stalled because we got to Didds really quickly and people hate to end the day quickly because they want days to be as long as possible so that end of the day re-reads are as terrible as possible. But now I think enough time has passed that people who still think Didds is scummy should vote for Didds.

The bolded bit. Er, what?

This community is very wordy. And weirdly squeamish about hammering. That’s how you get this ridiculous idea that wagons are like avacados and just go bad if you leave them out too long. But I think wagons are like a fine wine that get better with age.

TL;DR let’s get on with it and exile Didds.

[EFHW]

fang's mathdude post, for reference.

fang's follow-up re: math has agenda to make MiX look scummy.

My post that convinced him.

Just for context. These aren't trying to prove anything. I reread fang's mathdude post, and I see now that he did in fact stop short of scumreading math and increased his conviction when I reminded him of math not following up his claims with any substance.

fang's defection from the math wagon right at the end is still mysterious. I'm going to wait and see about him. I know several people have expressed townreads on him.

I still think mathdude is acting like his last scum game, and very different from his last town game. That was the one right after Mouse mafia, which he modded, and he didn't have this antagonism that he showed in the scum game and has shown here.

PPE: 9

[EFHW]

Having spent the day on figuring out I'm not going to pursue fang, I remain with mathdude as my strongest scumread. I'm going to start iso'ing people now. I'll let you know how that goes!

vote: mathdude.

[EFHW]

I think we're just stalled because we got to Didds really quickly and people hate to end the day quickly because they want days to be as long as possible so that end of the day re-reads are as terrible as possible. But now I think enough time has passed that people who still think Didds is scummy should vote for Didds.

I'll iso her first.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Joth

All the people he was following have invited and now he’s doubling down based on what? That I would cede to his demand to exile e?

[Galzria]

vote: math.

Right now, I’m 100% sheeping EFHW.

I would be honestly surprised to see both WCD & Joth as town, but I’m really quite honestly not sure which I find scummier.

Fang… here’s the thing. I like a LOT of the effort put in by him. But… I also feel like EFHW is digging at a level deeper than I am, and she keeps coming up with reasons to be suspicious of him - reasons that, when I read them, make a whole lot of sense to me.

…. Where’s Space when you need them? I could really use some coded pairs voting analysis right now. 😩

[infangthief]

Having spent the day on figuring out I'm not going to pursue fang, I remain with mathdude as my strongest scumread. I'm going to start iso'ing people now. I'll let you know how that goes!

vote: mathdude.

Sorry for giving you so much work!

I believe that today is the Day We Expect To Hear From Scolapasta.

[jotheonah]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

[MiX]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum. I think all D1 wagons are town and that Didds is town, but that really doesn't leave much else to do, since it means D1 was overall useless (other than to get to this conclusion), which doesn't get me anyone I want to exile.

I guess if I have to pick someone to die I'd pick scola?

Vote: scola

[infangthief]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

I'm hoping mathdude will tell us.

[infangthief]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum. I think all D1 wagons are town and that Didds is town, but that really doesn't leave much else to do, since it means D1 was overall useless (other than to get to this conclusion), which doesn't get me anyone I want to exile.

I guess if I have to pick someone to die I'd pick scola?

Vote: scola

Will exiling scola today help us hit scum tomorrow?

[infangthief]

vote count please
prod request: scola

[infangthief]

This post should hit a page-top (assuming you're using 25-posts-per-page setting). So it seems like a good place to say:

Please everyone make sure you understand how voting ties are being resolved in this game. This is really important, so scum can't hide behind "oh I didn't realise X was going to be exiled" etc.

Please make sure you understand J Reggie's clarification at #368.

Actually, I can quote it again here:

6. If a majority exile is not reached by the Day's deadline, a plurality exile takes place. If there is a tie, the player who has had that number of votes for the longest is exiled.

Could you confirm if this is exactly what you mean?
Suppose A has 5 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves off A so that they've got 4 each. B gets exiled because they've been on 4 for longer?
Suppose A has 6 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves from A to B so that they've got 5 each. They both hit 5 votes at exactly the same moment. Who gets exiled?
In other games I've seen majority exile tiebreaking done in favour of the player who was most recently in the lead.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. For your first example, your assumption is correct. For the second example, I will consider a player switching votes to have an implied unvote in between, so A would be exiled.

(I realized when setting up the vote count spreadsheet that the way you said would be simpler and more intuitive. I'm not changing it in the middle of the game though.)

[WestCoastDidds]

I forgot to say last night that I would also vote for Scola, but rereading Joth this morning makes me feel better about that vote.

[jotheonah]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

Laziness is a town tell. If I were scum I would be working way harder.

[jotheonah]

I think people are misreading my frustration about the Didds wagon. And the e wagon day 1 for that matter. It's sort of a general frustration.

It seems like in this game, or maybe just in this community, wagons just stall out. And they don't really stall out for a reason. The person doesn't do something especially towny and a strong competing wagon doesn't emerge. People just sort of say "well, this wagon hasn't gone anywhere for a while, better try something else". Which is insane because stalling out is exactly what you would expect a wagon on scum to do! Because three members of the town are trying not to vote for it.

On day 1, faust literally said something like this about the e wagon. I'll go find it.

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

It feels quite outdated. The last change to that wagon was what, over 100 posts ago, which is basically half the game. It's the sort of wagon with just enough justification so that people hang on to it so they can avoid further scumhunting.

This is pretty silly. People don't become less scummy because time goes by.

Well that's certainly an opinion. I would say that if a player has behaved scummily for time T and then hasn't behaved scummily between times T and 2T, they are less scummy at time 2T then they were at time T. But maybe you wish to enlighten me about the recent scummy things that e has done.

And I guess I'm just still not over this exchange, even though faust is no longer here to have it with me. Why do we let wagons just die?

When I say "why haven't we exiled Didds yet?" I really mean it. Why haven't we? What's changed? Are people really townreading Didds now and if so why? Is there someone else who is really scummy?

Because I tell you what, when I am scum, this phenomenon is my favorite thing in the world. It makes it so easy to get out of being exiled. Just wave something shiny and distract people for a few pages and you're home free.

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 2.2
The Pangea Software game Nanosaur 2: Hatchling was released in 2004 for Windows and Mac and bundled with many Macintosh machines.

mathdude (3) : infangthief, EFHW, Galzria
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, mathdude
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
jotheonah (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (2) : scolapasta, Swowl
 
Currently, mathdude is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at March 03, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

Scolapasta has been prodded.

[MiX]

We haven't exiled Didds SoD2 because if we had, when she flipped town we would have no information. Also, there is opposition, even if weak, like mine.

[jotheonah]

We haven't exiled Didds SoD2 because if we had, when she flipped town we would have no information. Also, there is opposition, even if weak, like mine.

There would be so much information.

[scolapasta]

prod request: scola

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I mean, I did say I was mostly unavailable over weekend. anyway, back to normal schedule now. So should be able to post somewhat more.

[J Reggie]

prod request: scola

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I mean, I did say I was mostly unavailable over weekend. anyway, back to normal schedule now. So should be able to post somewhat more.

If you think you will be unable to post, please specify that you will be V/LA. There's a difference, at least to me, between being unable to post "too much" and simply not posting.

[scolapasta]

prod request: scola

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I mean, I did say I was mostly unavailable over weekend. anyway, back to normal schedule now. So should be able to post somewhat more.

If you think you will be unable to post, please specify that you will be V/LA. There's a difference, at least to me, between being unable to post "too much" and simply not posting.

Sorry about that. For me, in this ever connected world, I see less of a distinction. I always have at least some device with me, so try to read what's going on, but posting is more challenging. (as is reading and trying to actually follow threads). I also didn't know my exact plans for the week, just that I wouldn't be working. But yeah, in retrospect, I should've just said VLA for this past week.

[EFHW]

I iso'd Didds and I will not be voting for her today. If she's scum, I can't see it. Galz's case was based on the EOD1 voting, but didn't consider alternate explanations, just the ones that looked bad. FOS on people pushing her exile.

[EFHW]

This means that Galzria, joth and math are on my would-exile list. But I want to look at Swowl, too. I feel like he hasn't gotten any attention and some scrutiny on him would be helpful.

[Swowl]

 weekend got away from me. will catch up today!

[mathdude]

I'm still around. I've skimmed all posts since I last posted. Hope to go back to fully read and reply later tonight. Might not happen until tomorrow though.

[gkrieg13]

This means that Galzria, joth and math are on my would-exile list. But I want to look at Swowl, too. I feel like he hasn't gotten any attention and some scrutiny on him would be helpful.

What do you think of scola? I also need to go back and reread Swowl, I don't remember much from him.

[gkrieg13]

Scola has literally not voted yet this entire game, and has really only said that he would vote for WCD.

[Swowl]

This post should hit a page-top (assuming you're using 25-posts-per-page setting). So it seems like a good place to say:

Please everyone make sure you understand how voting ties are being resolved in this game. This is really important, so scum can't hide behind "oh I didn't realise X was going to be exiled" etc.

Please make sure you understand J Reggie's clarification at #368.

Actually, I can quote it again here:

6. If a majority exile is not reached by the Day's deadline, a plurality exile takes place. If there is a tie, the player who has had that number of votes for the longest is exiled.

Could you confirm if this is exactly what you mean?
Suppose A has 5 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves off A so that they've got 4 each. B gets exiled because they've been on 4 for longer?
Suppose A has 6 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves from A to B so that they've got 5 each. They both hit 5 votes at exactly the same moment. Who gets exiled?
In other games I've seen majority exile tiebreaking done in favour of the player who was most recently in the lead.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. For your first example, your assumption is correct. For the second example, I will consider a player switching votes to have an implied unvote in between, so A would be exiled.

(I realized when setting up the vote count spreadsheet that the way you said would be simpler and more intuitive. I'm not changing it in the middle of the game though.)

Interesting. Also to add to that so it cannot be claimed as "I didn't know" later...
It would then appear that if A and B were both tied at X-votes, if A was going to be exiled, someone could simply unvote A then revote them... in which case B would be exiled instead?

[Swowl]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum. I think all D1 wagons are town and that Didds is town, but that really doesn't leave much else to do, since it means D1 was overall useless (other than to get to this conclusion), which doesn't get me anyone I want to exile.

I guess if I have to pick someone to die I'd pick scola?

Vote: scola

if you are in the mindset of more info is needed to get a grip on the game... how do you land on scola?

[Swowl]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

Why fang and GK?
They could answer first, if they haven't already (catching up) just seems like a weird pairing.

[Swowl]

The thing I don't get about the Didds + e theory is why would Didds even move away from the Dylan wagon (to scolapasta) in that case.

Dylan was on 5 (including Didds), e on 2 (Dylan and Galzria) and mathdude on 4.
Both joth and I had said we were prepared to move from mathdude to e (at #415 and #434). So Didds moving off Dylan at #438 seems an unnecessary risk if e is her partner.

That bit through there is at least worth a reread.

So... I agree with you, but also because of the plurality thing - the risk is kind of negated. Since there was enough time, obviously, to move back.

[Swowl]

im still at Vote:Math

[Swowl]

ill get some more thoughts out after dinner is done.

[mathdude]

It's catch-up time again!

Unvote

Won’t have much time to get to this until Monday. Still chewing over my thoughts on WCD. [Fang, Joth, Scola, e, MiX, math] are the others outside of WCD that I’m feeling off feelings for due to one thing or another. I know that list is pretty big, but it leaves EFHW, Swowl & Gkrieg as being more townie than not to me right now, and that’s at least something for me to help calibrate.

This is a great non-list of potential scum!  (At least you do admit that, and note that it's mostly just saying your 3 town-reads).

I have no idea how useful or accurate my own reads are.  And so the only useful data points for me so far this game are how people are reading me (and obviously flips, people's previous reads on them and votes for them... okay, so I guess I mean the data points I'm looking at currently, and the present time in the game, while still being aware of these past things).

fang has probably expressed the most consistent scum-read of me this game, and he's not on your "safe list"... but EFHW and Swowl have recently expressed similar thoughts (I don't remember where they were D1).  gkrieg on the other hand has continuously stated he is town-reading me, with varying levels of confidence.  So of the 3 you trust, 2 think I'm most likely scum and 1 thinks I'm most likely not.

From my perspective, this means EFHW and Swowl (and then also fang) are either mistaken, or think I'm an easy enough misexile (not saying partners... some could be one and some in the other category).  And gkrieg is either correct in his read, or he's scum and this read is just part of his play.  Confirmation bias comes into play for sure here, but I am tending to trust gkrieg's other reads more at this point, and am not putting much weight into the reads from the others (in reference to the influence they have on my own reads of people).

I know I've taken Galz's post on a bit of a tangent in the reply.  But the "safe names" really stuck out to me, and then the diarrhea of tangents of thoughts that it started just got typed out as they came!

[mathdude]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I’ve got a good feeling about him. Seems pretty towny.

I do appreciate that you put in your 2 cents here.  Thanks!

I'm not sure how much I trust you at the moment though.  So I don't know if your opinion will influence me that much.

[mathdude]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I think I already elaborated a little, I think there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, pretty neutral.

Other than the post a few before this quoted one, I don't see that you really mention joth - so I'm not sure what this "elaboration" is, unless it was just that other post.  And if that's the case, you seem to contradict yourself - if e is scum, then potential partner joth made an expert move to ensure Dylan's exile.  But then you say you don't think joth thinks about those things.  And now you say there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

So basically, I'm completely not following your train of thoughts here.

[mathdude]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

Why fang and GK?
They could answer first, if they haven't already (catching up) just seems like a weird pairing.

It is a weird pairing.  I picked them as the person I've seen having the most consistent scum read of me all game (though re-reading now, EFHW might compete for that title) and the person I've seen having the most consistent town read of me all game.  Basically, asking for opinions from the person whose reads I trust the least and whose I trust the most, at the moment, relative to this game (again, confirmation bias, as stated eaerlier).

[mathdude]

ill get some more thoughts out after dinner is done.

What time is your dinner at, scola?  I know you're in a different part of the world than I am, but this seems like a very late dinner.

Oh, sorry, this was Swowl, not scola!

[mathdude]

This means that Galzria, joth and math are on my would-exile list. But I want to look at Swowl, too. I feel like he hasn't gotten any attention and some scrutiny on him would be helpful.

I've read why I'm on your would-exile list.  Have you explained much about the other 2, and I missed the explanations?  Is Galz there for sheeping you or for some other reason?   And why joth?

[mathdude]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

What are your thoughts on joth?

That's a really good question!

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

I'm hoping mathdude will tell us.

I'm hoping so too.

Does that mean faust was hatched? Damn, that's unfortunate. Also, the guy who was pushing the misexile the hardest? Weird choice. I mean, I know it's faust but still.

This first reply of his after the flip felt very pre-conceived to me.  Is this typical joth?  Because these are thoughts I would have if I were scum who coordinated the kill, but definitely wouldn't post most of them - at least not the way he did (and as opening thoughts).

Additionally, his next few posts after that one quoted above (I don't want to make this too big of a wall by quoting too many posts)... his comments about the "quirk of the rules", and "wouldn't have affected the outcome" both don't say town!joth to me. 

This is a solid case. I'm honestly loving the Didds cases, but I was nervous because of my scumread on e. But that was a day 1 case, so maybe it's time to let it go and go for something stronger.

Vote: WCD

Again, this pinged me as scummy.  The over-exaggeration about the Didds, case, the comment about him being nervous about the scumread on e, and then immediately being willing to let it go?

Overall... why did I ask the question about joth?  Something didn't seem right about him at start of D2.  Some posts didn't seem normal.  I remember feeling there was subtle partner interactions as I was reading things earlier in D2 - I think I saw a few joth/gkrieg connections, but I'm not seeing them as strongly now in a re-read.  There were still a couple minor things, but they didn't look familiar compared to my first read through.  And now I can't find any more of what I thought I saw earlier.

So I'll leave joth on my "potential scum, would definitely vote there today" list for now.

[infangthief]

Unvote

[2.71828.....]

I have some catch-up to do, only have 2 days left in the day

[MiX]

ill get some more thoughts out after dinner is done.

What time is your dinner at, scola?  I know you're in a different part of the world than I am, but this seems like a very late dinner.

Oh, sorry, this was Swowl, not scola!

[MiX]

I hate mobile so much I can't even.

ill get some more thoughts out after dinner is done.

What time is your dinner at, scola?  I know you're in a different part of the world than I am, but this seems like a very late dinner.

Oh, sorry, this was Swowl, not scola!

Why did you post this?

[WestCoastDidds]

This means that Galzria, joth and math are on my would-exile list. But I want to look at Swowl, too. I feel like he hasn't gotten any attention and some scrutiny on him would be helpful.

I've read why I'm on your would-exile list.  Have you explained much about the other 2, and I missed the explanations?  Is Galz there for sheeping you or for some other reason?   And why joth?

The reason is they are the people voting for me.

[WestCoastDidds]

MIXy, what are your Joth thoughts?

[WestCoastDidds]

Unvote

So, math acquitted himself? Why was that?

[infangthief]

Unvote

So, math acquitted himself? Why was that?

His joth thoughts seemed pretty genuine. So I went back and reread his other stuff.

[MiX]

MIXy, what are your Joth thoughts?

Lazy town, so typical joth. I would need to reread more than one game to get a better read on him.

[jotheonah]

I regret to inform you all that it's my birthday today so you're not allowed to exile me. At least not until tomorrow.

But on the plus side, I'm taking the afternoon off work so I can dedicate some time to re-reading this game and totally solving it.

[WestCoastDidds]

I regret to inform you all that it's my birthday today so you're not allowed to exile me. At least not until tomorrow.

But on the plus side, I'm taking the afternoon off work so I can dedicate some time to re-reading this game and totally solving it.

Happy birthday to you! And Glooble! I hope it’s a fantastic day and that there are copious amounts of cake!

[mathdude]

I hate mobile so much I can't even.

ill get some more thoughts out after dinner is done.

What time is your dinner at, scola?  I know you're in a different part of the world than I am, but this seems like a very late dinner.

Oh, sorry, this was Swowl, not scola!

Why did you post this?

Mostly just to try and get a reaction.  I'm disappointed by your reaction.  Let's see how Swowl reacts.

I know Swowl has provided some contributions.  But it does also look like he's doing a lot of the same thing scola's doing... posting to say he's around, and saying he'll get to it, but not always following through.  Is lazy!Swowl scum!Swowl or town!Swowl?

[mathdude]

I regret to inform you all that it's my birthday today so you're not allowed to exile me. At least not until tomorrow.

But on the plus side, I'm taking the afternoon off work so I can dedicate some time to re-reading this game and totally solving it.

Lucky you, and happy birthday.  I didn't get a birthday this year... somehow, it got squished out between yesterday and today and it just didn't show up on the calendar.

Guess I won't exile you today.  No promises about tomorrow though.

[infangthief]

Happy birthday joth and mathdude. It is not my birthday, but do you mind if I join the wagon?

vote: Didds

[scolapasta]

Posting before I get prodded... and yes I know that this has gotten to the point of being annoying - I truly get that. I'm going to catch up some today when I take lunch and try to at least cast a vote.

[scolapasta]

Joth is not that scummy, I suppose. I think too much about joth, so much so that I can't remember when my supposed tells on him were right or wrong. I just remember that I trusted them, so I keep trusting them based on that memory instead of looking at results. I should probably look into his previous games to get that checked out.

On the other hand, Didds seems weird. I have reasons to think she cannot be scum, but otherwise she is very scummy. So, with that contradiction, I'll

Vote: Didds

And maybe I can explain this in 24 hours or so.

Did we ever get this explanation? (if so, I guess I'll get to it eventually)

[Galzria]

I’ll have some down time at work later today to go back and look at each of the people I’m feeling off about.

[scolapasta]

MiX, are you gonna say why I cannot be scum? Has it been 24 hours?

It hasn't quite been 24 hours, but sure. I retract that statement. Basically, what I miss from Didds is That One Post where Didds goes around addressing specific people, and I thought that she would definitely remember to do that if she were scum.

But that's minor compared to what I found now, as I reread Didds. Doesn't she make bigger posts sometimes? I read her D1 in the most recent (bastard) game and it's extremely similar to this one in terms of how her posts look. It also doesn't have what I was looking for this game, so I think this all matches Didds being scum again.

OK, answered here.

Working my way, but hoping to get the more heavy voting period to see if anything sparks out. Otherwise, feels like a usual D1 with people just throwing out cases without much merit.

[EFHW]

Happy birthday joth and mathdude.

And Glooble!

[EFHW]

This means that Galzria, joth and math are on my would-exile list. But I want to look at Swowl, too. I feel like he hasn't gotten any attention and some scrutiny on him would be helpful.

I've read why I'm on your would-exile list.  Have you explained much about the other 2, and I missed the explanations?  Is Galz there for sheeping you or for some other reason?   And why joth?

Because they have been pushing the Didds exile.

[scolapasta]

Man, D1 was long - I'm maybe half way through.

Not seeing anything substantial, which I expected, but if people want my gut feels as of now:
I think fang is likely town.
I always scumread mathdude and Mix (and faust for that matter).
Still feel WCD is scummy, but that's happened before when she's town.
Will add joth, gkrieg, and Galz to that list.
I usually find EFHW and swowl to that list. And haven't played enough with e.

So have to pause for now, but I'll go ahead and throw my vote for now:

Vote: joth

I'm sure people want to knw why specifically, but not sure I can explain it? Just something...

And yeah, realizing now that it's his birthday (happy birthday, joth, glooble, and mathdude) but still feels like the best vote right now.

Are you doing anything good for your birthday?

[WestCoastDidds]

Happy birthday joth and mathdude. It is not my birthday, but do you mind if I join the wagon?

vote: Didds

Why’s that?

[mathdude]

We're about 33 hours until deadline now, if my math is correct.  And we've just gone 8 hours with no posts.  I know we have plurality exile, so we don't need majority, but it would be nice to see a little consolidation so we actually get something useful out of VCA tomorrow, regardless of which way things go.

I believe this is the current vote count:

mathdude (3) : EFHW, Galzria, Swowl
WestCoastDidds (3) : jotheonah, mathdude, infangthief
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
jotheonah (2) : WestCoastDidds, scolapasta

There are 11 of us here.  There seem to be arguments of some sort for the 5 currently having votes.  I know some have expressed suspicion of 2.71 as well.

I think it would be helpful if people posted their rankings (of some sort... scum-to-chum, would-vote wouldn't-vote, whatever) of those 5 or 6.  Then going into the final 24 hours, we should have a good idea of what's viable.  But even more importantly, it will help for VCA tomorrow.  If we flip scum, who was town-reading them (or better yet, had them near the top of their scum list but didn't vote for them!)?  I might as well start.

Would vote: joth, scola, Swowl (in that order of preference)
Likely wouldn't vote today: Didds, e

Vote: joth
(yes, that means the vote count above is no longer accurate).
It's not that I see Didds as more townie than I did before.  It's that others now look more scummy to me.

[Swowl]

I hate mobile so much I can't even.

ill get some more thoughts out after dinner is done.

What time is your dinner at, scola?  I know you're in a different part of the world than I am, but this seems like a very late dinner.

Oh, sorry, this was Swowl, not scola!

Why did you post this?

Mostly just to try and get a reaction.  I'm disappointed by your reaction.  Let's see how Swowl reacts.

I know Swowl has provided some contributions.  But it does also look like he's doing a lot of the same thing scola's doing... posting to say he's around, and saying he'll get to it, but not always following through.  Is lazy!Swowl scum!Swowl or town!Swowl?

Reaction will be unfortunate - Elden Ring came out.
Also, I get that I am not a top poster. But it is misleading for you to single me out vs scola like this.

Why would you be focused on me here in comparison to Pasta, and not on let's say Galz or E!?

[infangthief]

Happy birthday joth and mathdude. It is not my birthday, but do you mind if I join the wagon?

vote: Didds

Why’s that?

#665, #668, and your reaction when I unvoted from mathdude.

[Swowl]

Math

1. What is your reasoning on following your #2 skum read instead of like ... voting me?

2. What are your E! vibes rn?

3. How does WCD move into your "will not vote" category from "voting didds" if you "do not read them as more towny than before?"... when you were voting them?

[MiX]

I had a dream Didds, math and scola were the scumteam.

I'm not voting anyone that isn't them.

Also, wow. They're all on joth. Look at that VC. Apparently I was paying attention to this game after all.

[infangthief]

Hi joth and MiX, a few things I didn't understand from day 1, wonder if you could enlighten me on each of these:

1.

I'm on e to solve math.

2.

Is now the time to explains why you think math is scum, joth?

Actually, no. I’ll save it for day 2.

Ok then what is this, joth?

insurance

followed by:

Vote: joth

I mean, I understand what you want, I've done it too, but you can't leave people hanging like that. I also don't have a big townread on you.

3. Would still like an answer to this one please joth:

At this point I refuse to leave the e wagon on principal. But I'm coming around to scum!Didds.

Whose read or whose case is influencing you here?

PPE: Oo, hi MiX can you help?

[MiX]

1. I thought e and math were the same alignment, so I was voting e to know if math was town or not.

2  joth was saying he said e was scum, but earlier he said he had reasons to think math was scum too. He wasn't consistent with who he scumread more, so I wanted to vote him.

Anything else?

[infangthief]

1. I thought e and math were the same alignment, so I was voting e to know if math was town or not.

2  joth was saying he said e was scum, but earlier he said he had reasons to think math was scum too. He wasn't consistent with who he scumread more, so I wanted to vote him.

Anything else?

1. Why did you vote for e and not math then? At the time that you voted for e, e was on 1 and mathdude was on 5. (Dylan on 4)

2. What did you mean by "you can't leave people hanging like that"?

[MiX]

1. Really? Well surely I explained why I voted e? Can you quote me that vote so I can read the context?

2. I meant that joth can't just delay questions for a whole day. If he really did have a reason to scumread math (which he did not, by the way), he should've come out with it D1 so people can move to math.

[MiX]

Probably should've written this in the previous post, but just quoting a question emanates so much energy.

I understand why people don't want to flip e. On the other hand, e and math have the same alignment. So I'm willing to vote for e? I'm still dying on the Didds wagon though.

I'm (sorta) around for deadline, so it should be okay.

Ah, there we go. I was townreading math and Dylan, so I was fine with another option, even if I thought math and e were the same alignment. In retrospect I should've voted math.

[infangthief]

And then here is where you actually placed your vote, 5 hours later:

Vote: e

Don't care about the math or Dylan wagons. I'll get Didds tomorrow.

[mathdude]

I hate mobile so much I can't even.

ill get some more thoughts out after dinner is done.

What time is your dinner at, scola?  I know you're in a different part of the world than I am, but this seems like a very late dinner.

Oh, sorry, this was Swowl, not scola!

Why did you post this?

Mostly just to try and get a reaction.  I'm disappointed by your reaction.  Let's see how Swowl reacts.

I know Swowl has provided some contributions.  But it does also look like he's doing a lot of the same thing scola's doing... posting to say he's around, and saying he'll get to it, but not always following through.  Is lazy!Swowl scum!Swowl or town!Swowl?

Reaction will be unfortunate - Elden Ring came out.
Also, I get that I am not a top poster. But it is misleading for you to single me out vs scola like this.

Why would you be focused on me here in comparison to Pasta, and not on let's say Galz or E!?

Maybe a bit unfair for that comparison, since yout have actually been posting some useful stuff. But I wouldn't say I was "focused on you" based on that post. I thought some previous stuff you had said was a bit scummy. And i know when you do catch up on stuff, it can be helpful.

But I noticed that you said you'd be right back but didn't come back. So I called you out for it. I don't think that part e's assignment-indicative. I just wanted to hear your thoughts once you caught up.

Also, when you (and people in general) respond to such callouts, I think a distinction of how you railings can be helpful too. Some people respond by talking about posting and whether they should or not. Some other people actually just catch up, which is much more helpful.

[jotheonah]

2. I meant that joth can't just delay questions for a whole day. If he really did have a reason to scumread math (which he did not, by the way), he should've come out with it D1 so people can move to math.

[MiX]

That's why you're gonna die today.

[EFHW]

I’m en route and getting caught up.

Swowl, weird that you think I’m not usually a fan of EAL (LAL), but that just means that you’re not paying super close attention to my D1s. Lurking is perhaps the only think I find overtly scummy. That is often where I vote.

I have no idea who I am getting mixed up in my head with you in regards to day 1 reads... but yeah... super quick skimmed a few games and obviously (as you know, bc you're you)... you are correct.
but now you got me on a tangent trying to figure out who it is I was mixing you up with, dammit

This is a bit weird, given how Didds and Swowl talk about their relationship.

[EFHW]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum. I think all D1 wagons are town and that Didds is town, but that really doesn't leave much else to do, since it means D1 was overall useless (other than to get to this conclusion), which doesn't get me anyone I want to exile.

I guess if I have to pick someone to die I'd pick scola?

Vote: scola

if you are in the mindset of more info is needed to get a grip on the game... how do you land on scola?

Good question here

[EFHW]

As you can see, I am rereading Swowl. He does seem distracted and not looking at any bigger picture, just each post in itself. OTOH, I find I agree with him most of the time. If he is scum, which seems possible, his contributions are pro-town atm.

[jotheonah]

That's why you're gonna die today.

This is a good plan. Always exile people who annoy you. They're always scum.

[MiX]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum. I think all D1 wagons are town and that Didds is town, but that really doesn't leave much else to do, since it means D1 was overall useless (other than to get to this conclusion), which doesn't get me anyone I want to exile.

I guess if I have to pick someone to die I'd pick scola?

Vote: scola

if you are in the mindset of more info is needed to get a grip on the game... how do you land on scola?

Good question here

I don't feel like voting for people I don't think are scum.

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 2.3
Some birds, including cuckoos and cowbirds, lay their eggs in other birds' nests!

mathdude (3) : EFHW, Galzria, Swowl
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, infangthief
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
 
Currently, mathdude is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends March 03, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time. That's in less than a day.

[scolapasta]

Meetings much of the day, but should have lunch and time for some more catch up before 2, I hope.

[jotheonah]

vote: mathdude

This is purely a self-preservation vote. I think mathdude is probably town. But I know I'm town, so I gotta do it.

[infangthief]

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

[2.71828.....]

vote: mathdude

This is purely a self-preservation vote. I think mathdude is probably town. But I know I'm town, so I gotta do it.

I would rather exile scola than mathdude. Want to go there?

Vote: pasta

[jotheonah]

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

insurance was a joke. I was saying, if you want to know my reason for voting math, you have to keep me alive into day 2.

As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.

[infangthief]

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

insurance was a joke. I was saying, if you want to know my reason for voting math, you have to keep me alive into day 2.

As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.

I thought you had given up trying to read Didds day 1, which is why I asked.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m en route and getting caught up.

Swowl, weird that you think I’m not usually a fan of EAL (LAL), but that just means that you’re not paying super close attention to my D1s. Lurking is perhaps the only think I find overtly scummy. That is often where I vote.

I thought that, too

I have no idea who I am getting mixed up in my head with you in regards to day 1 reads... but yeah... super quick skimmed a few games and obviously (as you know, bc you're you)... you are correct.
but now you got me on a tangent trying to figure out who it is I was mixing you up with, dammit

This is a bit weird, given how Didds and Swowl talk about their relationship.

[WestCoastDidds]

Quote fail:

EFHW: I thought that, too. I’d have guessed he knows me better.

[jotheonah]

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

insurance was a joke. I was saying, if you want to know my reason for voting math, you have to keep me alive into day 2.

As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.

I thought you had given up trying to read Didds day 1, which is why I asked.

Well, I guess I gave up prematurely.

[gkrieg13]

scola is definitely my top choice of exile, then joth, then math. As in, I would change my vote to joth to stop math from being exiled.

I think we are at math 4, joth 3, scola 3, with infangthief voting alone?

[WestCoastDidds]

I would vote for Joth or Scola

I’m okay with math or MiX

I’m not going to vote for EFHW, e, or Galz today

[jotheonah]

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

[gkrieg13]

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

You can iso him faster than I can compile the case.

[scolapasta]

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

You can iso him faster than I can compile the case.

In other words you don't actually have a case against me.

[gkrieg13]

He has 23 posts so far this game. Other than 4 jokey posts, he has

• 1 post asking a question of who people read well D1,
• 7 posts D1 saying that he is lurking, but that it isn't anti-town this game because of plurality exile, or various comments on his lurking,
• 0 votes D1,
• 1 post saying he would vote for WCD, based on "today's posts", but not voting, which helped cause the WCD wagon to stall
• 9 posts D2 saying that he is lurking, but that it isn't anti-town this game because of plurality exile, or various comments on his lurking, including comments about how he is waiting to get to something meaningful D1, but isn't expecting anything (almost like if people don't try to interact at all, there isn't anything to analyze...),
• 1 reads list, where he says that nothing meaningful came out of D1, as he expected... With ABSOLUTELY no information. Also with a scummy vote for joth.

His entire game is a mix of not contributing and complaining that nothing useful has happened.

I would be fine with it, except that he has spent more time explaining why he doesn't need to vote, because of plurality voting (which is not the mentality a VT has), than anything else. His only vote so far has been for joth with scummy reasoning. This is all coupled with my reasoning that I suspect all the wagons D1 were town, so scum was incentivized to back off and just let the exile happen (which is why plurality exile can be good for scum as well as town), because they did not care who got exiled, and there was no reason to ensure a majority-misexile happened.

His reads list is:
town: fang
scum: mathdude, MiX, WCD, joth, gkrieg, galz, EFHW, and Swowl
hasn't played enough with: e.
Scum loves to leave options open, and fang is one person that at this point is very likely to not be exiled.

[2.71828.....]

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

You can iso him faster than I can compile the case.

In other words you don't actually have a case against me.

The beauty of lurking

[WestCoastDidds]

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

For me, it is the absence of anything towny coupled with the consistent claim that he is reading and keeping up but that he didn't have anything to say. That could also be read as its better to be not say anything than to get in hot water.  I'd sure as heck have an easier go of it if I didn't actually said what I think, but I think it helps town to actually let people into your thoughts. The only people really in danger when they do that are scum.

[scolapasta]

He has 23 posts so far this game. Other than 4 jokey posts, he has

• 1 post asking a question of who people read well D1,
• 7 posts D1 saying that he is lurking, but that it isn't anti-town this game because of plurality exile, or various comments on his lurking,
• 0 votes D1,
• 1 post saying he would vote for WCD, based on "today's posts", but not voting, which helped cause the WCD wagon to stall
• 9 posts D2 saying that he is lurking, but that it isn't anti-town this game because of plurality exile, or various comments on his lurking, including comments about how he is waiting to get to something meaningful D1, but isn't expecting anything (almost like if people don't try to interact at all, there isn't anything to analyze...),
• 1 reads list, where he says that nothing meaningful came out of D1, as he expected... With ABSOLUTELY no information. Also with a scummy vote for joth.

His entire game is a mix of not contributing and complaining that nothing useful has happened.

I would be fine with it, except that he has spent more time explaining why he doesn't need to vote, because of plurality voting (which is not the mentality a VT has), than anything else. His only vote so far has been for joth with scummy reasoning. This is all coupled with my reasoning that I suspect all the wagons D1 were town, so scum was incentivized to back off and just let the exile happen (which is why plurality exile can be good for scum as well as town), because they did not care who got exiled, and there was no reason to ensure a majority-misexile happened.

His reads list is:
town: fang
scum: mathdude, MiX, WCD, joth, gkrieg, galz, EFHW, and Swowl
hasn't played enough with: e.
Scum loves to leave options open, and fang is one person that at this point is very likely to not be exiled.

Why is not having to vote due to plurality not a VT mentality in your opinion? The whole point is that having plurality means we don't risk no exile. And that would be a major reason to vote when we near deadline, to avoid no exile. Without that risk, voting vs non voting doesn't make much of a difference, imo, when I didn't feel I had any good read of one person vs another. (especially those who were the top vote getters)

Yes, voting helps other decide whether they think I'm town or not, but again, when not having a much of an idea, I don't think my having placed a vote would be useful there.

So I stand by not my not voting D1.

And I also stand by the fact that people here like to infer a lot from interactions in a way that's not as useful as they think they are.

I also think you're completely misinterpreting my read list. And putting way to many people as "scum". Which goes back to my first point - I've learned that just because the way someone posts seems "scummy" to me hasn't always had a good correlation to being scum. SO I'm hoping for more concrete thoughts, and still nto finding then in my D1 reread.

Why do you say my vote for joth is scummy?

[EFHW]

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

...
As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.

This reads scummy to me, joth. Galz's case saw what he wanted to see. e's case is that she was around at EOD1. And you feel those are convincing, plus you have a non-specific gut read. It seems like you don't have any scumreads at all if this is the strongest one.

vote: Joth

[scolapasta]

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

For me, it is the absence of anything towny coupled with the consistent claim that he is reading and keeping up but that he didn't have anything to say. That could also be read as its better to be not say anything than to get in hot water.  I'd sure as heck have an easier go of it if I didn't actually said what I think, but I think it helps town to actually let people into your thoughts. The only people really in danger when they do that are scum.

"absence of anything towny" - what does that even mean really? Especially considering everyone is trying to be "towny".

It's true I don't have much to say this game. Partially because I've been more busy with other things than expected, but also because I am finding this game a little more challenging to others. If you look back at past games I've played, my posts are usually much more about trying to help "solve" things (e.g. Groundhog's day). But this game, on D1 had nothing to solve. D2 is better, because we now know Dylan and faust were town. Which is why I'm focused on trying to reread D1 with that in mind, when I have the time). But even with that knowledge, it's not super easy.

[jotheonah]

Yeah, the scola case is a nothingburger. Quell surprise.

As is the case on me. We are taking the easy route on exiles of unhelpful players. But unhelpful =/= scummy. You're going to find scum among the "helpful" players, helpfully leading us down the wrong path.

I have been pretty disengaged with this game today, and I'll cop to that. I'm following along, but I've been too busy IRL to really re-read and scrutinize and form reads. Instead, I decided to form some early reads and commit to them. For a minute, it looked like that would actually be a useful strategy.

[jotheonah]

If I can I will take some time tonight to try to make a more substantive contribution. But it's Ash Wednesday and my work day is crazy busy, so I may not get to it.

[gkrieg13]

--snip--

Why is not having to vote due to plurality not a VT mentality in your opinion? The whole point is that having plurality means we don't risk no exile. And that would be a major reason to vote when we near deadline, to avoid no exile. Without that risk, voting vs non voting doesn't make much of a difference, imo, when I didn't feel I had any good read of one person vs another. (especially those who were the top vote getters)

Yes, voting helps other decide whether they think I'm town or not, but again, when not having a much of an idea, I don't think my having placed a vote would be useful there.

So I stand by not my not voting D1.

And I also stand by the fact that people here like to infer a lot from interactions in a way that's not as useful as they think they are.

I also think you're completely misinterpreting my read list. And putting way to many people as "scum". Which goes back to my first point - I've learned that just because the way someone posts seems "scummy" to me hasn't always had a good correlation to being scum. SO I'm hoping for more concrete thoughts, and still nto finding then in my D1 reread.

Why do you say my vote for joth is scummy?

When you are a VT, it is commonly put in your role description that "your vote is your only weapon", so refusing to use your vote to influence the game is at the very least as anti-town as you can get as a VT, if not scummy. Scum has even more influence when you don't vote.

D1, you literally could have decided the exile by voting. Like if you had voted, we may have exiled scum.

I agree that people infer a lot from interactions that may not be useful, but that is kind of the game. Not voting and not hunting for scummy interactions is not playing the game as VT.

How am I misinterpreting your reads list?

Man, D1 was long - I'm maybe half way through.

Not seeing anything substantial, which I expected, but if people want my gut feels as of now:
I think fang is likely town.
I always scumread mathdude and Mix (and faust for that matter).
Still feel WCD is scummy, but that's happened before when she's town.
Will add joth, gkrieg, and Galz to that list.
I usually find EFHW and swowl to that list. And haven't played enough with e.

So have to pause for now, but I'll go ahead and throw my vote for now:

Vote: joth

I'm sure people want to knw why specifically, but not sure I can explain it? Just something...

And yeah, realizing now that it's his birthday (happy birthday, joth, glooble, and mathdude) but still feels like the best vote right now.

Are you doing anything good for your birthday?

Do you still feel like joth is the best vote, considering he is on the edge of being exiled?

[gkrieg13]

Yeah, the scola case is a nothingburger. Quell surprise.

As is the case on me. We are taking the easy route on exiles of unhelpful players. But unhelpful =/= scummy. You're going to find scum among the "helpful" players, helpfully leading us down the wrong path.

--snip--

I hate that term.

I have shown that scola is not just being unhelpful, but actually anti-town. He also fits the narrative of scum sitting back D1, because the wagons were all town. It seems like you agree that the wagons were all town D1, so do you not follow my logic to the next step?

[jotheonah]

I don't agree that the wagons were all town. At least, I don't see any compelling reason to believe that over the alternative.

My thesis is that scum tends to be more engaged in the game than average, not less. They know they're important and even if there's no immediate need to do anything, because the town is doing a good job funding a misexile on its own, scum still has work to do day 1 to lay the groundwork for future days, position themselves as being on the right wagons, etc.

As for this:

His reads list is:
town: fang
scum: mathdude, MiX, WCD, joth, gkrieg, galz, EFHW, and Swowl
hasn't played enough with: e.
Scum loves to leave options open, and fang is one person that at this point is very likely to not be exiled.

No way scum is that obvious. Scum is putting a lot of thought into their reads list to make sure it's plausible, consistent, and unremarkable. This is the reads list of a town player who has no idea what's going on.

[infangthief]

vote: jotheonah That's X-1.

(By the way, last official vote count shows that there is no active double-voter today.)

[MiX]

Exiling joth here is like killing the sane person in a murder mystery. Well, I'm sure I had a better analogy when I started this sentence, but not anymore.

What's a better thing to say...it's like if there's two people arguing, and a third person tells them to chill out, and then they both start attacking said third person. It just doesn't make sense. Of course joth can be scum here, but there's absolutely no reason to think that given his posts this game.

[jotheonah]

idk why but I'm very tempted to pull a Morgrim and hammer here.

[2.71828.....]

So many better options.

I feel bad having been very inactive here the last few days.

Let's go back to one of my earlier reads.

Vote: gkrieg

His recent posts have felt off to me

[2.71828.....]

For example, there are very few posts from gkrieg between these two:

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I think I already elaborated a little, I think there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, pretty neutral.

scola is definitely my top choice of exile, then joth, then math. As in, I would change my vote to joth to stop math from being exiled.

I think we are at math 4, joth 3, scola 3, with infangthief voting alone?

How do we go from "pretty neutral" to #2 exile choice?

Just going where the current wind blow? Just finding anything that seems in vogue do you don't upset any apple carts?

Just feels so opportunistic coming out strong against scola and then on board with any main wagon. No actual scum hunting coming from gkrieg

[2.71828.....]

This joth wagon though with Didds, pasta, EFHW....it just feels like a bad wagon.

[EFHW]

What do you think about my post ~815?

[2.71828.....]

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

...
As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.

This reads scummy to me, joth. Galz's case saw what he wanted to see. e's case is that she was around at EOD1. And you feel those are convincing, plus you have a non-specific gut read. It seems like you don't have any scumreads at all if this is the strongest one.

vote: Joth

I feel like you are stating all the reasons that joth is town, then calling him scum. I felt his transition onto the Didds wagon was towny.

[2.71828.....]

This is a solid case. I'm honestly loving the Didds cases, but I was nervous because of my scumread on e. But that was a day 1 case, so maybe it's time to let it go and go for something stronger.

Vote: WCD

Especially the flip from calling me scum straight out of the gate, then joining me on Didds.

Scum don't flip-flop like that early D2

[infangthief]

vote: gkrieg13

I would recommend Didds or MiX also.

[gkrieg13]

For example, there are very few posts from gkrieg between these two:

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I think I already elaborated a little, I think there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, pretty neutral.

scola is definitely my top choice of exile, then joth, then math. As in, I would change my vote to joth to stop math from being exiled.

I think we are at math 4, joth 3, scola 3, with infangthief voting alone?

How do we go from "pretty neutral" to #2 exile choice?

Just going where the current wind blow? Just finding anything that seems in vogue do you don't upset any apple carts?

Just feels so opportunistic coming out strong against scola and then on board with any main wagon. No actual scum hunting coming from gkrieg

Going from "pretty neutral" to #2 of the current wagons. I'm not saying he is my #2 exile choice of all players. I was strictly stating my preferences on the current wagons. How does "As in, I would change my vote to joth to stop math from being exiled." make any sense with how you are interpreting that quote?

Outside of misunderstanding the post you link above, has anything else I've done been opportunistic? I have been telling people scola is scum since the beginning of the Day, and I'm first on the wagon.

[infangthief]

gkrieg, I'd be interested in your responses to #708 (by me) and #749 (by mathdude).

PPE 1

[infangthief]

EFHW, you did a Didds reread and don't think she's scum.

What do you think of my observation here (post #668)?

As much as I like the metaphor of the nest, I am not at all fond of the idea that anyone could be pushed out of the nest to splat on the sidewalk!

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

I want to ask, why? I mean, if you are town then you don't need to say this, you just know that it's wrong. Weird (for you, I think?) to say "that makes no sense". Someone's probably already asked why, I'll read on.

[scolapasta]

The joth not buying the case on me is interesting. On the one hand, if he were scum I think he'd try to jump on it, as if I get exiled, he can easily play it off. So town points for him not jumping on.

But WIFOM always exists. I just don't see it as much.

I am starting to like the case on gkrieg. One thing I noticed is that he did seem more active on D1 that in other recent games.

Vote: gkrieg

[infangthief]

scolapasta, what is the case on gkrieg?

[infangthief]

I think we're currently at:

mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, mathdude, EFHW
gkrieg13 (3) : 2.71828......, infangthief, scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX

mathdude has been on 3 for longest, then joth, then gkrieg.

[infangthief]

The joth not buying the case on me is interesting. On the one hand, if he were scum I think he'd try to jump on it, as if I get exiled, he can easily play it off. So town points for him not jumping on.

Why should he have jumped on your wagon? It was joth-5, scola-3, mathdude-3. Joth could have made it 5-4-2, but that doesn't help him that much.

[mathdude]

I'm happy with my vote staying on joth. But I'm also very willing to switch to pasta. At this point, I would only switch to someone other than those 2 for self-preservation.

[gkrieg13]

I do think scum!WCD is willing to save her partner scum!e, like she did.

What does this mean?

It looks to me like you are saying that you think WCD and e are both scum. But elsewhere you are saying that you think e is likely town, and that people who think WCD is scum should be voting for her, which you're not.

Am I missing something?

I think this is missing hypotheticals.

I'm mainly saying that if e and WCD are scum, she would have saved e by boldly voting for Dylan at the last moment.

I think it is likely that e and WCD are town though.

[gkrieg13]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I think I already elaborated a little, I think there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, pretty neutral.

Other than the post a few before this quoted one, I don't see that you really mention joth - so I'm not sure what this "elaboration" is, unless it was just that other post.  And if that's the case, you seem to contradict yourself - if e is scum, then potential partner joth made an expert move to ensure Dylan's exile.  But then you say you don't think joth thinks about those things.  And now you say there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

So basically, I'm completely not following your train of thoughts here.

I think this might be another hypotheticals problem.

I think that if both e and joth are scum, joth does not make the move he made and fully know that it saves e. I think you are correct though, that this does not mean that joth is not scum.

[MiX]

I am starting to like the case on gkrieg. One thing I noticed is that he did seem more active on D1 that in other recent games.

I feel like gkrieg gets active, is exiled over it, goes less active, is killed over it, and just keeps going in this loop without anyone seriously listening to him.

I have a funny feeling this is just part of the cycle, instead of him being scum now.

[infangthief]

Thanks gkrieg.

vote: Didds
I think that's where I want to be.

I'm happy with my vote staying on joth. But I'm also very willing to switch to pasta. At this point, I would only switch to someone other than those 2 for self-preservation.

Why not Didds?

[EFHW]

EFHW, you did a Didds reread and don't think she's scum.

What do you think of my observation here (post #668)?

As much as I like the metaphor of the nest, I am not at all fond of the idea that anyone could be pushed out of the nest to splat on the sidewalk!

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

I want to ask, why? I mean, if you are town then you don't need to say this, you just know that it's wrong. Weird (for you, I think?) to say "that makes no sense". Someone's probably already asked why, I'll read on.

I think I see the angle you are taking - it sounds to you, I think, like she doesn't know her own alignment.  I read it as she can't see how e got to that team from the available information.

[infangthief]

ok, thanks, I will ponder that angle then.

[EFHW]

Ok, cool. I feel like I'm not playing the same game as everyone else!

[MiX]

Ok, cool. I feel like I'm not playing the same game as everyone else!

Why is this?


Unrelated, I'm trying to ISO scola, it's so not fun that he was active in his latest scum game. It makes me not want to read it. So I need to go aaaaall the way back to find a game where scola was this inactive. Does anyone know one off the top of their head?

[EFHW]

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

...
As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.

This reads scummy to me, joth. Galz's case saw what he wanted to see. e's case is that she was around at EOD1. And you feel those are convincing, plus you have a non-specific gut read. It seems like you don't have any scumreads at all if this is the strongest one.

vote: Joth

I feel like you are stating all the reasons that joth is town, then calling him scum. I felt his transition onto the Didds wagon was towny.

Case in point.  Which part of the transition was towny?

[EFHW]

Ok, cool. I feel like I'm not playing the same game as everyone else!

Why is this?

Because people are reading Didds as scummy and I can't see it. And then e says the reasons I find joth scummy are actually reasons he is towny.

[EFHW]

I think we're currently at:

mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, mathdude, EFHW
gkrieg13 (3) : 2.71828......, infangthief, scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX

mathdude has been on 3 for longest, then joth, then gkrieg.

I didn't notice the Didds wagon dissolving. Interesting.

[infangthief]

EFHW, you did a Didds reread and don't think she's scum.

What do you think of my observation here (post #668)?

As much as I like the metaphor of the nest, I am not at all fond of the idea that anyone could be pushed out of the nest to splat on the sidewalk!

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

I want to ask, why? I mean, if you are town then you don't need to say this, you just know that it's wrong. Weird (for you, I think?) to say "that makes no sense". Someone's probably already asked why, I'll read on.

I think I see the angle you are taking - it sounds to you, I think, like she doesn't know her own alignment.  I read it as she can't see how e got to that team from the available information.

Question for Didds. Why did e's suggestion of a Didds/Mix/X team make no sense?

[EFHW]

I'll be on tomorrow morning, but not continuously.

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 2.4
The largest egg ever recorded was laid by an ostrich in Sweden in 2008. It weighed 2.589 kg!

mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, mathdude, EFHW
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief
 
Currently, mathdude is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at March 03, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time. That's just about 12 hours from now.

[mathdude]

Thanks gkrieg.

vote: Didds
I think that's where I want to be.

I'm happy with my vote staying on joth. But I'm also very willing to switch to pasta. At this point, I would only switch to someone other than those 2 for self-preservation.

Why not Didds?

The other two have generated stronger, more recent, more polarizing opinions. These are useful, regardless of flip result... and as a bonus, it's quite possible we'll find scum by flipping one of them.

[gkrieg13]

I’m not going to be on in the morning (it’s too early my time zone). Debating whether to leave my vote on scola or to vote for joth.

[2.71828.....]

For example, there are very few posts from gkrieg between these two:

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I think I already elaborated a little, I think there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, pretty neutral.

scola is definitely my top choice of exile, then joth, then math. As in, I would change my vote to joth to stop math from being exiled.

I think we are at math 4, joth 3, scola 3, with infangthief voting alone?

How do we go from "pretty neutral" to #2 exile choice?

Just going where the current wind blow? Just finding anything that seems in vogue do you don't upset any apple carts?

Just feels so opportunistic coming out strong against scola and then on board with any main wagon. No actual scum hunting coming from gkrieg

Going from "pretty neutral" to #2 of the current wagons. I'm not saying he is my #2 exile choice of all players. I was strictly stating my preferences on the current wagons. How does "As in, I would change my vote to joth to stop math from being exiled." make any sense with how you are interpreting that quote?

Outside of misunderstanding the post you link above, has anything else I've done been opportunistic? I have been telling people scola is scum since the beginning of the Day, and I'm first on the wagon.

Jumping on scola early D2 easily fits as opportunistic.

Scola's D1 made him an ready target. Having a clear target to go through, evaluate, vote for, tunnel. That is easy. And a great way to avoid looking anywhere else.

You know, like an opportunity

[2.71828.....]

Gkrieg, who is your #2 exile then?

[gkrieg13]

For example, there are very few posts from gkrieg between these two:

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I think I already elaborated a little, I think there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, pretty neutral.

scola is definitely my top choice of exile, then joth, then math. As in, I would change my vote to joth to stop math from being exiled.

I think we are at math 4, joth 3, scola 3, with infangthief voting alone?

How do we go from "pretty neutral" to #2 exile choice?

Just going where the current wind blow? Just finding anything that seems in vogue do you don't upset any apple carts?

Just feels so opportunistic coming out strong against scola and then on board with any main wagon. No actual scum hunting coming from gkrieg

Going from "pretty neutral" to #2 of the current wagons. I'm not saying he is my #2 exile choice of all players. I was strictly stating my preferences on the current wagons. How does "As in, I would change my vote to joth to stop math from being exiled." make any sense with how you are interpreting that quote?

Outside of misunderstanding the post you link above, has anything else I've done been opportunistic? I have been telling people scola is scum since the beginning of the Day, and I'm first on the wagon.

Jumping on scola early D2 easily fits as opportunistic.

Scola's D1 made him an ready target. Having a clear target to go through, evaluate, vote for, tunnel. That is easy. And a great way to avoid looking anywhere else.

You know, like an opportunity

But I didn’t avoid looking anywhere else. I was actively trying to figure out what happened at the end of D1 and forming reads based on that. I then made a case on scola that didn’t seem to gain any traction, or attention.

I wouldn’t describe tunneling as opportunistic.

Also your previous post says that I’m going where the wind takes me. Where have I done that?

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg, who is your #2 exile then?

I’m not sure what you are going for, but probably MiX.

[gkrieg13]

Going to bed. Vote: joth. I’d rather have his exile than math’s and I don’t think scola is going to happen.

[2.71828.....]

Going to bed. Vote: joth. I’d rather have his exile than math’s and I don’t think scola is going to happen.

This right here is the wind taking you

[Swowl]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum.
*snip*

if you are in the mindset of more info is needed to get a grip on the game... how do you land on scola?

Good question here

I don't feel like voting for people I don't think are scum.

So then do you think scola is skum or do you think we need a mix-EX?

[Swowl]

vote: jotheonah That's X-1.

(By the way, last official vote count shows that there is no active double-voter today.)

pretty sure since we lost faust there was gtd to be no other role for us today? Am I reading that incorrectly?

[infangthief]

vote: jotheonah That's X-1.

(By the way, last official vote count shows that there is no active double-voter today.)

pretty sure since we lost faust there was gtd to be no other role for us today? Am I reading that incorrectly?

There would have been at least 2 town hatches, possibly 3. (I make it about 30% chance of 3, slightly less now that we know there's no double-voter today.) Though if one had been a tree stump then they wouldn't know.
And exactly 1 scum hatch.

[infangthief]

I didn't notice the Didds wagon dissolving. Interesting.

Pretty sure it is connected with you saying FOS on anyone pushing Didds.
mathdude and joth left soon after.

But I am also suspicious of the people who have "wanted" to vote Didds but haven't:

scola, obviously.

But more significantly MiX. Day 1 came up with a case on Didds that no-one was ever going to follow. And was quite vocal at the end with things like "I'm dying on the Didds wagon" and "I'll get Didds tomorrow". Then take a look at his Day 2 opinions of Didds - a real mixture of "I would vote there" and "I'm defending her". But never a vote day 2, I guess because there was actually enough interest that it might have led to her exile?

So the "Didds/MiX/X team" makes a lot of sense to me.

[MiX]

I didn't notice the Didds wagon dissolving. Interesting.

Pretty sure it is connected with you saying FOS on anyone pushing Didds.
mathdude and joth left soon after.

But I am also suspicious of the people who have "wanted" to vote Didds but haven't:

scola, obviously.

But more significantly MiX. Day 1 came up with a case on Didds that no-one was ever going to follow. And was quite vocal at the end with things like "I'm dying on the Didds wagon" and "I'll get Didds tomorrow". Then take a look at his Day 2 opinions of Didds - a real mixture of "I would vote there" and "I'm defending her". But never a vote day 2, I guess because there was actually enough interest that it might have led to her exile?

So the "Didds/MiX/X team" makes a lot of sense to me.

Were you not there EoD1 when I said I reread Didds and thought she was town?

[MiX]

So then do you think scola is skum or do you think we need a mix-EX?

Yes? What kind of question is that?

[infangthief]

Were you not there EoD1 when I said I reread Didds and thought she was town?

Completely missed it.

I've gone back and found it now.
Oh look, you changed your mind as soon as joth showed interest in getting a Didds exile:

MiX, I'd go to Didds with you (sorry Didds).

MiX, I'd go to Didds with you (sorry Didds).

Better than math, I guess.

Lemme reread Didds though.

Unvote

Who did I want to vote before? I forgot now...well, when in doubt, vote scum.

Vote: Didds

Pfftt, you can do better than that

Joth wrote this post, right?

I withdraw my scumread on Didds. This is really flimsy since I'm using the previous game as meta, but I trust it.

How did the keenness to exile Didds turn into "Better than math, I guess" before you even reread Didds?

[infangthief]

Yeh, completely sold on Didds/MiX/X.

Didds had better come up with a good reason why that team makes no sense to her.

[MiX]

Okay, that's more like it.

How did the keenness to exile Didds turn into "Better than math, I guess" before you even reread Didds?

I was already having cold feet.

Yeh, completely sold on Didds/MiX/X.

Didds had better come up with a good reason why that team makes no sense to her.

Because last time we were scum I didn't go for Didds at all. And we were scum last game. It doesn't get simpler than this.

[infangthief]

Okay, that's more like it.

How did the keenness to exile Didds turn into "Better than math, I guess" before you even reread Didds?

I was already having cold feet.

Yeh, completely sold on Didds/MiX/X.

Didds had better come up with a good reason why that team makes no sense to her.

Because last time we were scum I didn't go for Didds at all. And we were scum last game. It doesn't get simpler than this.

I'd like Didds' reason, not yours. You were the one who said it was a good team call because you felt like defending Didds.

[MiX]

I'd like Didds' reason, not yours. You were the one who said it was a good team call because you felt like defending Didds.

Yes, it was a good team call because at that time I was going to defend Didds. I hadn't actually done that before. I did townread her in the end of D1, but the only reason she was considered was because I left my vote on her for a long time. From Didds' perspective, I was gunning for her all of D1, so of course it made no sense.

I'm answering for Didds here because 1. I presume it's way too early for americans and 2. this is an old issue.

[infangthief]

Okay, that's more like it.

How did the keenness to exile Didds turn into "Better than math, I guess" before you even reread Didds?

I was already having cold feet.

Was this you having cold feet:

Is anyone willing to CFD onto Didds, or are we doing Dylan/e today?

I'm not feeling any non-scola non-Didds CFD, and I don't reeeeally want scola dead. I just trust my early read.

Then:

MiX, I'd go to Didds with you (sorry Didds).

Better than math, I guess.

Lemme reread Didds though.

Look at those timestamps. Your feet cooled rapidly in 8 minutes.
Also, during that time EFHW (as well as joth) had indicated willingness to vote Didds.

[MiX]

Yes. Ever heard of "all bark no bite"? That was me. I was projecting my early scumread on Didds without having a current scumread on her. When things went serious I went to reread Didds to get that scumread back. Instead I didn't.

[2.71828.....]

Okay, that's more like it.

How did the keenness to exile Didds turn into "Better than math, I guess" before you even reread Didds?

I was already having cold feet.

Was this you having cold feet:

Is anyone willing to CFD onto Didds, or are we doing Dylan/e today?

I'm not feeling any non-scola non-Didds CFD, and I don't reeeeally want scola dead. I just trust my early read.

Then:

MiX, I'd go to Didds with you (sorry Didds).

Better than math, I guess.

Lemme reread Didds though.

Look at those timestamps. Your feet cooled rapidly in 8 minutes.
Also, during that time EFHW (as well as joth) had indicated willingness to vote Didds.

That's a town tell for MiX in my opinion.

I think Didds could totally be scum though, willing to go there.

[2.71828.....]

fang, what are your thoughts on gkrieg? You may have given them but I am too lazy to go back and look

[2.71828.....]

Ok, I looked a bit

Thanks gkrieg.

vote: Didds
I think that's where I want to be.

I'm happy with my vote staying on joth. But I'm also very willing to switch to pasta. At this point, I would only switch to someone other than those 2 for self-preservation.

Why not Didds?

How did gkrieg's responses change your vote?

[infangthief]

fang, what are your thoughts on gkrieg? You may have given them but I am too lazy to go back and look

Not sure really. I didn't like his refusal to consider that mathdude could be scum. Otherwise I think he's ok.

Ok, I looked a bit

Thanks gkrieg.

vote: Didds
I think that's where I want to be.

I'm happy with my vote staying on joth. But I'm also very willing to switch to pasta. At this point, I would only switch to someone other than those 2 for self-preservation.

Why not Didds?

How did gkrieg's responses change your vote?

One reason I voted for him was to try and get him to answer those questions - in particular I wanted clarification on what he thought of Didds.
There was another reason I voted also, which I would prefer not to share.

Once I got those answers I was happy to go back to my primary scum read at the moment.

[infangthief]

I'd still like to know what scolapasta thought the case on gkrieg was.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok, cool. I feel like I'm not playing the same game as everyone else!

Why is this?


Unrelated, I'm trying to ISO scola, it's so not fun that he was active in his latest scum game. It makes me not want to read it. So I need to go aaaaall the way back to find a game where scola was this inactive. Does anyone know one off the top of their head?

The first BSG, I think

[WestCoastDidds]

EFHW, you did a Didds reread and don't think she's scum.

What do you think of my observation here (post #668)?

As much as I like the metaphor of the nest, I am not at all fond of the idea that anyone could be pushed out of the nest to splat on the sidewalk!

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

you doing the good drugs? that makes no sense to me at all.

I want to ask, why? I mean, if you are town then you don't need to say this, you just know that it's wrong. Weird (for you, I think?) to say "that makes no sense". Someone's probably already asked why, I'll read on.

I think I see the angle you are taking - it sounds to you, I think, like she doesn't know her own alignment.  I read it as she can't see how e got to that team from the available information.

Question for Didds. Why did e's suggestion of a Didds/Mix/X team make no sense?

Because I’m not scum! And MiX was the person voting for me on Day 1, which doesn’t make any sense to me. If we were a team, why park his vote on me? I don’t think that is  how MiX rolls with a buddy.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yeh, completely sold on Didds/MiX/X.

Didds had better come up with a good reason why that team makes no sense to her.

In a game with a plurality exile, it makes no sense to me that someone would camp out on a partner, especially on D1. There is too much possibility for starting something you can’t slow down, and it’s way better to camp out an odd vote on someone you’d like to eliminate. MiX was on me most of D1, he wouldn’t do that to a partner. He is not a big busser most of the time at all (as opposed to Scola and math who bus early and often).

So, it made no sense to me that I’d be scum but it made even less sense to me that I’d be scum with MiX.

[2.71828.....]

I would vote for Joth or Scola

I’m okay with math or MiX

I’m not going to vote for EFHW, e, or Galz today

What about gkrieg?

[2.71828.....]

What, just under 2 hours from the deadline?

Really not feeling the joth or math wagons, would switch to Didds or pasta, but why don't more people want to exile gkrieg?

[WestCoastDidds]

I would vote for Joth or Scola

I’m okay with math or MiX

I’m not going to vote for EFHW, e, or Galz today

I’m more ambivalent there. I don’t have a ton of experience with him, and I don’t know that I’ve ever seen scum!gk. So, I’m not sure enough to say

What about gkrieg?

[WestCoastDidds]

I would vote for Joth or Scola

I’m okay with math or MiX

I’m not going to vote for EFHW, e, or Galz today

What about gkrieg?

I’m more ambivalent there. I don’t have a ton of experience with him, and I don’t know that I’ve ever seen scum!gk. So, I’m not sure enough to say.

[WestCoastDidds]

What, just under 2 hours from the deadline?

Really not feeling the joth or math wagons, would switch to Didds or pasta, but why don't more people want to exile gkrieg?

Hmmm…. What is there to like about Joths play? Math?

[2.71828.....]

Regarding joth, here is just one thing:

This is a solid case. I'm honestly loving the Didds cases, but I was nervous because of my scumread on e. But that was a day 1 case, so maybe it's time to let it go and go for something stronger.

Vote: WCD

Especially the flip from calling me scum straight out of the gate, then joining me on Didds.

Scum don't flip-flop like that early D2

As for math, the case feels like leftovers from D1, and I didn't like that case then either. I don't see anything that shouts scum!math to me

[2.71828.....]

Vote: Joth

All the people he was following have invited and now he’s doubling down based on what? That I would cede to his demand to exile e?

Why are you voting joth? Wagon analysis from D1? That's what it feels like reading your posts, just trying to verify your rationale

[mathdude]

What, just under 2 hours from the deadline?

Really not feeling the joth or math wagons, would switch to Didds or pasta, but why don't more people want to exile gkrieg?

I'd switch to pasta

[EFHW]

vote: jotheonah That's X-1.

(By the way, last official vote count shows that there is no active double-voter today.)

pretty sure since we lost faust there was gtd to be no other role for us today? Am I reading that incorrectly?

How would you come to that conclusion from what's in the OP?

[infangthief]

vote: scolapasta

[scolapasta]

scolapasta, what is the case on gkrieg?

e's case on him in post #825. I agree that his voting feels opportunistic. It's not great, but I'm less convinced on joth than I was before.

I should be able to check in a couple times before deadline today.

[infangthief]

Ok, cool. I feel like I'm not playing the same game as everyone else!

Why is this?


Unrelated, I'm trying to ISO scola, it's so not fun that he was active in his latest scum game. It makes me not want to read it. So I need to go aaaaall the way back to find a game where scola was this inactive. Does anyone know one off the top of their head?

The first BSG, I think

Just looked that one up, scolapasta was scum and made about 200 posts in that game, seemed fairly active.

Scolapasta, can you think which game Didds might be referring to?

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Joth

All the people he was following have invited and now he’s doubling down based on what? That I would cede to his demand to exile e?

Why are you voting joth? Wagon analysis from D1? That's what it feels like reading your posts, just trying to verify your rationale

It’s mostly his voting pattern today. You had some reasons for voting for me and Galz had some reasons. Joth followed say that he was loving the cases. Then both you and Galz moved away, but was suddenly convinced I am scum, but all of his reasons were based in folks who reevaluated their reasons. MiX called it lazy town, but I’m not sure that’s what town Joth looks like. I know my own town knowledge is bound up in that, but as a “case” against me, it was really hollow.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok, cool. I feel like I'm not playing the same game as everyone else!

Why is this?

Maybe BSG 2. Or something around that time. I’m sorry, I know that is too vague. But I swear there is a game where absent Scola was scum Scola.

Unrelated, I'm trying to ISO scola, it's so not fun that he was active in his latest scum game. It makes me not want to read it. So I need to go aaaaall the way back to find a game where scola was this inactive. Does anyone know one off the top of their head?

The first BSG, I think

Just looked that one up, scolapasta was scum and made about 200 posts in that game, seemed fairly active.

Scolapasta, can you think which game Didds might be referring to?

[infangthief]

Ok, cool. I feel like I'm not playing the same game as everyone else!

Why is this?
 

Unrelated, I'm trying to ISO scola, it's so not fun that he was active in his latest scum game. It makes me not want to read it. So I need to go aaaaall the way back to find a game where scola was this inactive. Does anyone know one off the top of their head?

The first BSG, I think

Just looked that one up, scolapasta was scum and made about 200 posts in that game, seemed fairly active.

Scolapasta, can you think which game Didds might be referring to?

Maybe BSG 2. Or something around that time. I’m sorry, I know that is too vague. But I swear there is a game where absent Scola was scum Scola.

Looked up that one too. He was scum in both. Bit less active in BSG2, once or twice going a couple of days without posting, but much more active than here.

[infangthief]

vote: Didds

I might switch to scolapasta before deadline, or anyone actually.
But I'm going to hold out on Didds for a bit longer.

[mathdude]

Vote: scola

I'm probably not able to get back online before deadline... class starts in 10 minutes!  (While the students are working, I'll try to poke on quickly, but can't guarantee it).

[scolapasta]

Honestly, I can't think of a game were I've been as inactive as D1 this game. I do know in one of my last scum games I wanted to try to be more inactive (as I thought people would read that as town) and I said that to my scum mates. I think that may have been BSG 2 and interestingly enough, WCD was scum with me that game. Scum points for Didds trying to point you to that one fore sure.

Do we have a vote count?

[MiX]

Hmm. Probably should've put more effort into today. I'm fine with scola!exile, but...eh. Maybe I'm just hedging now.

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 2.4
The largest egg ever recorded was laid by an ostrich in Sweden in 2008. It weighed 2.589 kg!

mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, mathdude, EFHW
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief
 
Currently, mathdude is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at March 03, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time. That's just about 12 hours from now.

math to scola
Gkrieg to joth

From a self preservation standpoint math to scola makes no sense

[infangthief]

I think it's this:

mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, EFHW, gkrieg
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : MiX, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief
 
mathdude been on 3 for longest, 45 mins to go.

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 2.5
The eggs are getting quite wiggly!

mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : MiX, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief
 
Currently, mathdude is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at March 03, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

[infangthief]

Vote counts are like buses. 3 come along within 1 minute of each other.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote counts are like buses. 3 come along within 1 minute of each other.

Ha!

[WestCoastDidds]

The mathdude wagon is swowl, Galz, and Joth

I wish I felt better about, well, any of them.

[WestCoastDidds]

EFHW, what do you think of Scola?

[scolapasta]

Thanks.

Vote: WCD

Maybe I should've actually voted here earlier, but I stand by not wanting to X-1 so early in the day.

I do think that people are mis valuing the power of plurality vote, generally. i.e. in a normal game, if a wagon stalls, it makes sense to move from it; here not so much, as you don't need to reach X.

[jotheonah]

so if I move anywhere I'm the exile.

if that weren't the case, I'd love to move to gkrieg or Didds here.

[jotheonah]

I guess now that scola has moved it would have to be Didds.

Yeah if one more person moves to Didds I'll follow.

[2.71828.....]

so if I move anywhere I'm the exile.

if that weren't the case, I'd love to move to gkrieg or Didds here.

I can do a

Vote: Didds

If that helps

[jotheonah]

Vote: Didds

[jotheonah]

of course, now anyone on the Didds wagon can stab me in the back by moving elsewhere. This plurality vote rule is weird!

[WestCoastDidds]

Hearts and smiley faces, y’all. Hearts and smiley faces and profuse apologies on my misexile. Get your emoji GIPHY fingers ready!

[2.71828.....]

Hearts and smiley faces, y’all. Hearts and smiley faces and profuse apologies on my misexile. Get your emoji GIPHY fingers ready!

Switch to gkrieg and this doesn't have to happen

[infangthief]

WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828......, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, EFHW, gkrieg13
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl
scolapasta (2) : MiX, mathdude

[EFHW]

I'd switch to scola

[EFHW]

vote: scolapasta

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: scolapasta

[WestCoastDidds]

Hearts and smiley faces, y’all. Hearts and smiley faces and profuse apologies on my misexile. Get your emoji GIPHY fingers ready!

Switch to gkrieg and this doesn't have to happen

For me, it’s Joth or Scola

[2.71828.....]

Hearts and smiley faces, y’all. Hearts and smiley faces and profuse apologies on my misexile. Get your emoji GIPHY fingers ready!

Switch to gkrieg and this doesn't have to happen

For me, it’s Joth or Scola

Unless something changes in the next 10 minutes out will be you

[WestCoastDidds]

True enough, but that 4 is going to have a lot of explaining to do tomorrow. And town is going to have to get cracking (get it?) if we’re going to be able to pull this out.

[2.71828.....]

True enough, but that 4 is going to have a lot of explaining to do tomorrow. And town is going to have to get cracking (get it?) if we’re going to be able to pull this out.

Is that a threat?

I don't like threats

[gkrieg13]

Vote: scola

[infangthief]

Vote: scola

Oo, interesting.

[gkrieg13]

By some miracle the garbage truck woke me up

[2.71828.....]

Vote: scola

Your partner to the rescue didds

[scolapasta]

Yeah, voting me is bad. You'll see in a minute. SO at least 1 scum here, likely two? I don't I'd also look at swowl and galz for some reason.

[J Reggie]

Thread locked!

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 2.Final
The eggs had to avenge faust's untimely demise. But who was responsible? One egg in particular seemed awfully suspicious…

scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl
 
scolapasta, an unhatched green egg has been exiled! Night 2 starts now and ends March 05, 2022, 09:00:00 am. Night actions due in 36 hours.

Hatches will go out soon, so check your discord in a few minutes!

Votes:
infangthief -> mathdude
2.71828..... -> WestCoastDidds
MiX -> Galzria
jotheonah -> 2.71828.....
MiX -> --
Galzria -> WestCoastDidds
jotheonah -> WestCoastDidds
mathdude -> WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13 -> scolapasta
2.71828..... -> Swowl
Galzria -> --
EFHW -> mathdude
WestCoastDidds -> jotheonah
Galzria -> mathdude
MiX -> scolapasta
Swowl -> mathdude
infangthief -> --
infangthief -> WestCoastDidds
scolapasta -> jotheonah
mathdude -> jotheonah
jotheonah -> mathdude
2.71828..... -> scolapasta
EFHW -> jotheonah
infangthief -> jotheonah
2.71828..... -> gkrieg13
infangthief -> gkrieg13
scolapasta -> gkrieg13
infangthief -> WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13 -> jotheonah
infangthief -> scolapasta
infangthief -> WestCoastDidds
mathdude -> scolapasta
scolapasta -> WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... -> WestCoastDidds
jotheonah -> WestCoastDidds
EFHW -> scolapasta
WestCoastDidds -> scolapasta
gkrieg13 -> scolapasta

[J Reggie]

The sunrise played beautifully over the leaves of the tree. Of course, some of the eggs couldn't see that; they weren't hatched yet! They counted off to make sure they had all made it through the night.

"One!"
"Two!"
"Three!"
"Wait, we missed a number! Where's 2.71828.....?"
2.71828....., an unhatched green egg was nowhere to be found.

Day 3 starts now and ends March 12, 2022, 09:00:00 am. Thread unlocked!

Not voting (9) : EFHW, Galzria, gkrieg13, infangthief, jotheonah, mathdude, MiX, Swowl, WestCoastDidds

[jotheonah]

Alright. Time for a re-read and then to break the whole game wide open, like a bird breaking its shell wide open.

[jotheonah]

For my own benefit and anyone else who's rereading, since the opening post isn't updated, here are the dead confirmed town players:

Dylan32 - unhatched
faust - cop
scolapasta - unhatched
e - unhatched

[jotheonah]

Working on a re-read an a long post, but for now, can I ask everyone to take a look at Galzria? I think it's weird that he was almost as lurky as scola but he's gotten no heat for it, whereas scola managed to get himself exiled. If there's a lurker teammate on the scum team, Galz fits the bill.

[EFHW]

Looking over EOD. @gkrieg, what had your read on Didds been before that last vote? Or on scola, for that matter.

[EFHW]

@MiX and mathdude, why were you hanging out on scola, which was presumably going nowhere? What were your positions on Didds and scola?

Same questions for Swowl and Galzria, who were camped out on mathdude.

[EFHW]

Oh, and I meant to include asking about your positions on joth as part of my questions for all 5 of you.

[MiX]

@MiX and mathdude, why were you hanging out on scola, which was presumably going nowhere? What were your positions on Didds and scola?

Same questions for Swowl and Galzria, who were camped out on mathdude.

Oh, and I meant to include asking about your positions on joth as part of my questions for all 5 of you.

I was townreading Didds and joth and scumreading scola. That should be also answer why I was on scola.

Right now, I'm still townreading joth. I think that's the only read that I still have. I need to seriously think about this game.

[WestCoastDidds]

Dammit!

Galz and Swowl need a hard look.

[infangthief]

Well that's a useful night kill I think. Last night I was thinking oh no it might be e + joth, and kind of hoping I wouldn't make it through the night so I could leave it for others to figure out. But don't need to worry about that now. And e unhatched, that's good.

So 6 town left, probably 2 are hatched, but could be anywhere from 1-4 hatched I think.
And probably 1 scum hatched, but could be 2 or even 3 if things have gone really badly.

[Swowl]

busy weekend, or at least busy saturday.
have some thoughts I will get out tomorrow evening hopefully.

[gkrieg13]

Looking over EOD. @gkrieg, what had your read on Didds been before that last vote? Or on scola, for that matter.

I was feeling townie on Didds because of my town read on e and their EOD1. Feeling very scummy on scola.

[Swowl]

@MiX and mathdude, why were you hanging out on scola, which was presumably going nowhere? What were your positions on Didds and scola?

Same questions for Swowl and Galzria, who were camped out on mathdude.

Have more I want to say about this but it will have to wait until I have time tomorrow/monday.

Thought he was skum Day1.
Thought he was skum Day2.
Day 2 he was tied for wagon or leading wagon like all day.

Why would I ever leave my top skum read when they are tied for the exile?

[EFHW]

@MiX and mathdude, why were you hanging out on scola, which was presumably going nowhere? What were your positions on Didds and scola?

Same questions for Swowl and Galzria, who were camped out on mathdude.

Have more I want to say about this but it will have to wait until I have time tomorrow/monday.

Thought he was skum Day1.
Thought he was skum Day2.
Day 2 he was tied for wagon or leading wagon like all day.

Why would I ever leave my top skum read when they are tied for the exile?

He wasn't at the end of the day.

[mathdude]

@MiX and mathdude, why were you hanging out on scola, which was presumably going nowhere? What were your positions on Didds and scola?

Same questions for Swowl and Galzria, who were camped out on mathdude.

I was on scola to see if we could get something going there. My opinion on Didds didn't change much since near start of day... seemed somewhat scummy, but toward the end I thought scola or joth were more likely to be scum.

[infangthief]

Dammit!

Galz and Swowl need a hard look.

That's an interesting first post of the day. What does it mean?

[infangthief]

Thanks gkrieg.

vote: Didds
I think that's where I want to be.

I'm happy with my vote staying on joth. But I'm also very willing to switch to pasta. At this point, I would only switch to someone other than those 2 for self-preservation.

Why not Didds?

The other two have generated stronger, more recent, more polarizing opinions. These are useful, regardless of flip result... and as a bonus, it's quite possible we'll find scum by flipping one of them.

mathdude, remind me what were the polarizing opinions that scolapasta was generating? What useful conclusions can you draw from scolapasta flipping town?

[WestCoastDidds]

Dammit!

Galz and Swowl need a hard look.

That's an interesting first post of the day. What does it mean?

That Galz and Swowl have both been flying under the radar, and that camping out on mathdude was a unusual place to be at the end of day two days in a row. It is unusual for them to be voting in tandem like that, but it’s especially unusual for both of them to have nothing to do with the exile two days in a row.

At the end of day two, when it came down to me or Scola there weren’t enough people around to make anything other than those two choices happen. I know that Scola and I are both town, so scum had no incentive to hang around and see how it ended up. What would they have cared?

[infangthief]

Ok, that is interesting also.

But really I was wondering what you meant by "Dammit!" Is that a response to scolapasta being exiled, or scolapasta being town, or e being killed, or e being town, or e being unhatched, or ... I can't work it out!

[WestCoastDidds]

A general frustration dammit that we are now down 4 greenies. I really wanted to be right about Scola (and Dylan).

[jotheonah]

Joth is not that scummy, I suppose. I think too much about joth, so much so that I can't remember when my supposed tells on him were right or wrong. I just remember that I trusted them, so I keep trusting them based on that memory instead of looking at results. I should probably look into his previous games to get that checked out.

On the other hand, Didds seems weird. I have reasons to think she cannot be scum, but otherwise she is very scummy. So, with that contradiction, I'll

Vote: Didds

And maybe I can explain this in 24 hours or so.

Oh, I’m intrigued! Tell me more! I’m not sure why I cannot be scum, but I am in fact a green egg, so I am not.

I might be weird, though, yeah. I usually have no idea what to do on a D1, but that is even more so now when I don’t even know my role. But instead of being quiet and befuddle, I’ve decided to be try to be more present albeit still befuddled. I figure that without knowing what I am (other than a cute egg!) there is very little I can do to actually screw something up. So, pressure’s off! Let’s go!

This Didds post is pinging me majorly on re-read. It's like she's pre-emptively giving an excuse for her posts being off, because she knows they're going to. Btw, I don't think the day 1 Didds cases are nearly as bad as everyone's saying.

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

I agree. It’s not like he’s around to question it….

Vote: Dylan

This is also a scummily-timed vote on the Dylan wagon. It pushes it along right as it was stalling and it's not really based on anything.

I won't quote anything specific, but the Mathdude wagon is actually looking more reasonable to me on re-read. Not so much the initial case -- he posted a pretty silly, if-x-than-y, but how he defends himself as the wagon builds feels a little bit scum-panicky.

vote: mathdude

This vote, and the circumstances around it, make it somewhat unlikely that Galz and mathdude are partners, which was unfortunately a working theory of mine.

We are in a weird stasis. I’ll go back to

Vote: Dylan which I don’t think really changes anything but probably it’s not helpful to anyone for me to be hanging on to a solo vote

This vote, on the other hand. I think it's a little scummy? Esp if mathdude and Didds are scum together (which I think is very possible)

Conclusion at the end of the day 1 re-read:

Didds, mathdude, and Galzria still seem the scummiest to me, though Galz only in a lurky way. EFHW, Fang, MiX, and Swowl all seem towny to me. gkrieg I'm solidly on the fence about.

If mathdude is scum, than the end of day 1 situation is interesting and we can learn things from it. If mathdude is town, then it was just a pointless scramble between three town wagons and scum had no reason to do anything or not do anything, so it's kind a useless. So if nothing else, mathdude would be a useful flip. But I think we're past the point of useful flips.

Based on a day 1 re-read, I would still advocate a Didds exile.

- She's reading generally off, not posting quite as often as I expect from her (possibly being more cautious)
- All her votes seem strategic and scummy
- She's more angry-defensive (adjusted for her generally sunny disposition) than I'm used to
- That day one post where it seemed like she was setting up a pre-defense for being off

Next, I'll re-read day 2 and see if it completely changes my mind. PPE18

[jotheonah]

I should note it might be a bit before I get to the next re-read.

[WestCoastDidds]

We get, what, one more misexile before it becomes a get it wrong, game over situation? Knowing this, and knowing I am town makes Joth’s case very, very scummy to me. Sif scum can engineer one more misexile, then we’d have to be perfect, and that is a tall order.

Other people who we all seem to think are towny aren’t finding me nearly as scummy in their rereads. Plus, this is Joth’s third day to be gunning for me. At some point, he needs to acknowledge this is a tunnel and it’s not helping us.

[jotheonah]

We get, what, one more misexile before it becomes a get it wrong, game over situation? Knowing this, and knowing I am town makes Joth’s case very, very scummy to me. Sif scum can engineer one more misexile, then we’d have to be perfect, and that is a tall order.

Other people who we all seem to think are towny aren’t finding me nearly as scummy in their rereads. Plus, this is Joth’s third day to be gunning for me. At some point, he needs to acknowledge this is a tunnel and it’s not helping us.

You can hem and haw and OMGUS or you can do your own re-read and present a compelling alternative.

[infangthief]

So Didds, this might be a good time to ask you what you think of EFHW this game.

[WestCoastDidds]

So Didds, this might be a good time to ask you what you think of EFHW this game.

I think she is the most town and I’m surprised she made it through the life.

[WestCoastDidds]

We get, what, one more misexile before it becomes a get it wrong, game over situation? Knowing this, and knowing I am town makes Joth’s case very, very scummy to me. Sif scum can engineer one more misexile, then we’d have to be perfect, and that is a tall order.

Other people who we all seem to think are towny aren’t finding me nearly as scummy in their rereads. Plus, this is Joth’s third day to be gunning for me. At some point, he needs to acknowledge this is a tunnel and it’s not helping us.

You can hem and haw and OMGUS or you can do your own re-read and present a compelling alternative.

Dude. Pointing out that you are in a three freaking day tunnel is in no way hemming or hawing.

[WestCoastDidds]

So Didds, this might be a good time to ask you what you think of EFHW this game.

I think she is the most town and I’m surprised she made it through the night.

EBWOP

[jotheonah]

We get, what, one more misexile before it becomes a get it wrong, game over situation? Knowing this, and knowing I am town makes Joth’s case very, very scummy to me. Sif scum can engineer one more misexile, then we’d have to be perfect, and that is a tall order.

Other people who we all seem to think are towny aren’t finding me nearly as scummy in their rereads. Plus, this is Joth’s third day to be gunning for me. At some point, he needs to acknowledge this is a tunnel and it’s not helping us.

You can hem and haw and OMGUS or you can do your own re-read and present a compelling alternative.

Dude. Pointing out that you are in a three freaking day tunnel is in no way hemming or hawing.

It’s called having a consistent read and it’s not a crime.

[WestCoastDidds]

We get, what, one more misexile before it becomes a get it wrong, game over situation? Knowing this, and knowing I am town makes Joth’s case very, very scummy to me. Sif scum can engineer one more misexile, then we’d have to be perfect, and that is a tall order.

Other people who we all seem to think are towny aren’t finding me nearly as scummy in their rereads. Plus, this is Joth’s third day to be gunning for me. At some point, he needs to acknowledge this is a tunnel and it’s not helping us.

You can hem and haw and OMGUS or you can do your own re-read and present a compelling alternative.

Dude. Pointing out that you are in a three freaking day tunnel is in no way hemming or hawing.

It’s called having a consistent read and it’s not a crime.

No crime. But you’re either wrong or scum, so there’s that.

[Swowl]

@MiX and mathdude, why were you hanging out on scola, which was presumably going nowhere? What were your positions on Didds and scola?

Same questions for Swowl and Galzria, who were camped out on mathdude.

Have more I want to say about this but it will have to wait until I have time tomorrow/monday.

Thought he was skum Day1.
Thought he was skum Day2.
Day 2 he was tied for wagon or leading wagon like all day.

Why would I ever leave my top skum read when they are tied for the exile?

He wasn't at the end of the day.

Confused about what you mean here. This is the vote count as of roughly 5am my time

Vote Count 2.5
The eggs are getting quite wiggly!
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : MiX, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief

he was the leading wagon.

[Swowl]

now I wasn't awake at 5am... but also when I logged off for the night several hours before that... he was also still the leading wagon.

[EFHW]

prod Galzria please!

Also, if I can make a request, could vote count wagons be listed in the order they were created rather than in order of how many people are on them? Thanks!

[EFHW]

now I wasn't awake at 5am... but also when I logged off for the night several hours before that... he was also still the leading wagon.

Thanks for the clarification. I forgot about the time difference.

[EFHW]

Looking over EOD. @gkrieg, what had your read on Didds been before that last vote? Or on scola, for that matter.

I was feeling townie on Didds because of my town read on e and their EOD1. Feeling very scummy on scola.

What about joth?

[J Reggie]

prod Galzria please!

Also, if I can make a request, could vote count wagons be listed in the order they were created rather than in order of how many people are on them? Thanks!

Galzria has been prodded.

I will try to format the vote counts that way, it may be difficult with the way my spreadsheet is set up. If there are any errors just let me know.

[mathdude]

Sorry, I haven't really been around yet today either. The weekend got away on me. I'll catch up soon.

[infangthief]

prod Galzria please!

Also, if I can make a request, could vote count wagons be listed in the order they were created rather than in order of how many people are on them? Thanks!

Galzria has been prodded.

I will try to format the vote counts that way, it may be difficult with the way my spreadsheet is set up. If there are any errors just let me know.

I would prefer vote count wagons to be in order of who is set to be exiled. Which I think is how they are currently done. Otherwise it is not at all obvious who would be exiled if someone moves off the leading wagon.

[infangthief]

Or I suppose you could do it the way EFHW suggests, then underneath do "Player A >> Player B >> Player C ..." to indicate closeness to exile.

[EFHW]

Or I suppose you could do it the way EFHW suggests, then underneath do "Player A >> Player B >> Player C ..." to indicate closeness to exile.

I like this idea. Order created can be useful information. It's how we usually do it.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am teaching today, but tomorrow I can make one of those wall posts that has all the vote counts in order, unless someone beat me to it today.

[gkrieg13]

I probably won't get around to it today, but I really need to reread this game.

[gkrieg13]

Looking over EOD. @gkrieg, what had your read on Didds been before that last vote? Or on scola, for that matter.

I was feeling townie on Didds because of my town read on e and their EOD1. Feeling very scummy on scola.

What about joth?

The reasons I was townreading joth were not very strong, and the logic I was using was not correct. He is someone I definitely need to go back and reread.

[gkrieg13]

Starting a reread.

Currently alive are (numbers are wrong):
1. MiX
2. Swowl
3. Galzria
4. mathdude
5. EFHW
7. WestCoastDidds
8. jotheonah
10. gkrieg13
11. infangthief

I'll start with MiX.

He gives an early town read on galzria that spawns a lot of discussion.

Joth is not that scummy, I suppose. I think too much about joth, so much so that I can't remember when my supposed tells on him were right or wrong. I just remember that I trusted them, so I keep trusting them based on that memory instead of looking at results. I should probably look into his previous games to get that checked out.

On the other hand, Didds seems weird. I have reasons to think she cannot be scum, but otherwise she is very scummy. So, with that contradiction, I'll

Vote: Didds

And maybe I can explain this in 24 hours or so.

Did you ever go back and look at these early joth tells?

MiX, are you gonna say why I cannot be scum? Has it been 24 hours?

It hasn't quite been 24 hours, but sure. I retract that statement. Basically, what I miss from Didds is That One Post where Didds goes around addressing specific people, and I thought that she would definitely remember to do that if she were scum.

But that's minor compared to what I found now, as I reread Didds. Doesn't she make bigger posts sometimes? I read her D1 in the most recent (bastard) game and it's extremely similar to this one in terms of how her posts look. It also doesn't have what I was looking for this game, so I think this all matches Didds being scum again.

He makes an early case on Didds based on size of posts, which I don't think is a very good metric (it is an early D1 case, obviously).

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

How's the wagon on you going, do you think?

I forgot. I think joth's still voting me?

This almost seems like a planned underreaction from MiX on a wagon forming on him.

e, what do you think about the wagon on you?

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?

Dylan, what do you think about faust?

Didds, what do you think about MiX's case on you?

How is everyone enjoying being an egg? Do you find it constricting, or freeing?

I would rather know if I'm a PR or not.

Cool, town!joth.

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

Vote: Dylan

He leaves the Didds wagon to sheep faust, which he then goes back to in his next post.

(As a side-note to myself, it really looks like fang is scum-hunting this game)

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Why do you care about math posts beyond this? This seems like a cut and dry strong townread.

This post always caught me as weird, like he doesn't want me looking more into mathdude.

I think scola is scummy independent of his activity.

Vote: scola

Mostly his post about being an egg and cracking feels like exactly the type of posts I like to reply to when I'm busy as scum. As town I would then try to reply to a useful post.

He moves back to scola. My issue with all of his votes thus far is that they have the appearance of scum hunting, in that he picks individual posts or trends that are entirely based on meta (I know, it's still D1). He also does a ridiculous amount of sheeping faust. Actually, he does a lot of sheeping everyone. Does he normally do this as town?

Probably should've written this in the previous post, but just quoting a question emanates so much energy.

I understand why people don't want to flip e. On the other hand, e and math have the same alignment. So I'm willing to vote for e? I'm still dying on the Didds wagon though.

I'm (sorta) around for deadline, so it should be okay.

Now that e is flipped, do you still feel like they have the same alignment? He also goes for the e wagon instead of the mathdude wagon EOD1. Maybe scum!MiX was trying to flip town!e and then give it as a reason to make sure scum!math did not get exiled D2?

Is anyone willing to CFD onto Didds, or are we doing Dylan/e today?

Here he is again trying to get mathdude taken off the table (when he was tied for the most votes).

Has anyone talked about EFHW at all today? Or faust? They seem to be going low. Galzria too, but I already gave him a D1 pass.

Just putting this here because I'm going to have to pause between D1 and D2 and this might be important for D2.

I don't like the MiX wagon, but it's a good CFD. I don't think today has been especially useless for me to die, though.

MiX, I love you, but the martyr thing is getting old. You're not the exile today, and that's OK.

I'm not advocating for myself, for the record. I just like the idea of getting someone else as a wagon, and I was talked about a bunch. So, good idea, wrong person, mostly because I'm town.

MiX, I'd go to Didds with you (sorry Didds).

Better than math, I guess.

Lemme reread Didds though.

this kind of illustrates my point earlier about being surprised that MiX wouldn't know exactly what the wagon (or potential wagon) on him would be.

I'm on e to solve math. I don't care about any non-scola wagon now.

More stuff on the math-e thing.

Ok, done with D1. Will be back with D2. Just saw how long this is at this point though. I mainly just post these so I can go back and reread them later to get a synopsis of that player for that day without having to reread it again.

[jotheonah]

Where is everybody?

[mathdude]

Where is everybody?

I can't speak for everybody.  But personally... way too busy in RL, and completely lost in-game.  It almost still feels like another D1 without any scum flips yet.  "I think because this person voted here..." and "my gut tells me..." and "it seems like XX and YY are partnering/buddying/sheeping/etc." is about all I can come up with.  And I don't have time to dig into it deeper.

So where am I at?  At the moment...

MiX and Didds look a bit scummy from how I felt they had minor interactions D1 (I mean when I read them "live" through D1, not looking back at their D1 now in D3 which I haven't done and don't have time to do).

Swowl has been contributing a bit, but I don't recall anything useful that stood out, so it sort of feels like lurking... could be scummy, but I have no idea.

Galz has been very non-existent, like scola was... does that make him scummy?  I don't know.

joth still seems quite scummy to me, as most of his posts seem to be things I think (and avoid posting) when I'm scum, but others seem to be town-reading him for the exact things I think make him scummy.

EFHW and fang, I haven't really had a read on either way all game.

gkrieg has felt townie to me all game, which I recognize is mostly because he has been quite vocal about saying he thinks I'm town, and I know that's confirmation bias, and scum would definitely know I'm town, so I don't really know where that leaves me on him, but I sure hope he's town.

[EFHW]

I'll read the long posts when I'm more awake, but joth, weren't we waiting for your Day2 reread of Didds?

I feel like I'm settling on my exile pool for today. Not sharing quite yet.

[J Reggie]

Galzria has been prodded for a third time and will be replaced or mod-killed if he does not post in the next 24 hours.

[Galzria]

Sorry - weekends are almost always a no-post time for me due to work, and this weekend was particularly draining … and then I honestly just completely forgot about this today (haven’t even been on forums). I haven’t read anything since end of day yesterday. Will catch up in the morning.

[MiX]

I've also been prodable for a while.

I think there's three people that can be solved today: Didds, math and joth. Solving those 3 should be the focus of today. I haven't even begun writing the votes down, let alone do a VCA. Oh, EFHW, can you do that vote recap you post sometimes?

I don't really have reads beyond this because random takes are not useful here. Scola's town flip is not very useful in a vacuum, but it should make rereading better.

[infangthief]

I'd like to understand mathdude's complete turnaround on Didds in #776.

Swowl asked it well just afterwards:

3. How does WCD move into your "will not vote" category from "voting didds" if you "do not read them as more towny than before?"... when you were voting them?

... but got no answer as far as I can see.

I asked again later, and the best answer I got was that exiling scola would be more informative. Which seemed unlikely.

So... what's the real reason mathdude?

[jotheonah]

I'll read the long posts when I'm more awake, but joth, weren't we waiting for your Day2 reread of Didds?

I feel like I'm settling on my exile pool for today. Not sharing quite yet.

Yeah. Big week for me at work (and big birthday weekend) so it's kind of amazing I managed to get a Day 1 re-read done. But I think I can carve out some time for day 2 this evening. If I try to do it during the work day it'll eat too much time.

[jotheonah]

I'd like to understand mathdude's complete turnaround on Didds in #776.

Swowl asked it well just afterwards:

3. How does WCD move into your "will not vote" category from "voting didds" if you "do not read them as more towny than before?"... when you were voting them?

... but got no answer as far as I can see.

I asked again later, and the best answer I got was that exiling scola would be more informative. Which seemed unlikely.

So... what's the real reason mathdude?

I think I know the real reason. (It's that they're scum partners together).

[infangthief]

EFHW, you said that you didn't see anything in Galzria's and e's early-day-2 cases on Didds.

What did you think of mathdude's case (#628)?

And when you ISO'd Didds, did you think anything was scummy or towny?

[WestCoastDidds]

Day One Official vote counts:

Vote Count 1.1
Some birds, including pelicans, can squawk from inside their eggs if they are too hot or cold before hatching.
2.71828..... (3) : infangthief, Galzria, Dylan32
MiX (2) : faust, gkrieg13
infangthief (1) : EFHW
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (5) : jotheonah, mathdude, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
________________
Vote Count 1.2
Platypus and echidnas are the only mammals which lay eggs.
2.71828..... (4) : infangthief, Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
MiX (2) : EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
Dylan32 (1) : faust
 
Not voting (4) : mathdude, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
________________
Vote Count 1.3
Did you know? Vote counts now include linked posts!
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (2) : faust, WestCoastDidds
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
________________
Vote Count 1.4
Eggs start wiggling around by themselves a few days before hatching.
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (3) : faust, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
________________
Vote Count 1.5
A chef's hat has a number of pleats equal to the number of ways that chef can cook eggs.
mathdude (4) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief, jotheonah
Dylan32 (4) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
2.71828..... (2) : Galzria, Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
scolapasta (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
________________
Vote Count 1.Final
As the eggs sat in the nest, pipping to each other, they decided it would be best to get rid of the red eggs. Unfortunately, their shells being in the way made that hard to do. They had to take their best guess though, and succeeded in pushing a suspicious egg out of the nest.

SPLAT!
Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

Dylan32, an unhatched green egg, has been exiled.

[WestCoastDidds]

Day two official vote counts

Vote Count 2.1
Cassowary eggs have the thickest shells of any bird, more than half a centimeter thick!
WestCoastDidds (3) : Galzria, jotheonah, mathdude
mathdude (1) : infangthief
scolapasta (1) : gkrieg13
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
 
Not voting (5) : EFHW, MiX, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
__________________
Vote Count 2.2
The Pangea Software game Nanosaur 2: Hatchling was released in 2004 for Windows and Mac and bundled with many Macintosh machines.
mathdude (3) : infangthief, EFHW, Galzria
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, mathdude
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
jotheonah (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (2) : scolapasta, Swowl
 _______________
Vote Count 2.3
Some birds, including cuckoos and cowbirds, lay their eggs in other birds' nests!
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Galzria, Swowl
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, infangthief
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
_________________
Vote Count 2.4
The largest egg ever recorded was laid by an ostrich in Sweden in 2008. It weighed 2.589 kg!
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, mathdude, EFHW
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief
_______________
Vote Count 2.5
The eggs are getting quite wiggly!
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : MiX, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief

_________________
Vote Count 2.Final
The eggs had to avenge faust's untimely demise. But who was responsible? One egg in particular seemed awfully suspicious…
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl
 
scolapasta, an unhatched green egg has been exiled!

[WestCoastDidds]

With color!

Day One Official vote counts:

Vote Count 1.1
Some birds, including pelicans, can squawk from inside their eggs if they are too hot or cold before hatching.
2.71828..... (3) : infangthief, Galzria, Dylan32
MiX (2) : faust, gkrieg13
infangthief (1) : EFHW
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (5) : jotheonah, mathdude, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
________________
Vote Count 1.2
Platypus and echidnas are the only mammals which lay eggs.
2.71828..... (4) : infangthief, Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
MiX (2) : EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
Dylan32 (1) : faust
 
Not voting (4) : mathdude, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
________________
Vote Count 1.3
Did you know? Vote counts now include linked posts!
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (2) : faust, WestCoastDidds
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
________________
Vote Count 1.4
Eggs start wiggling around by themselves a few days before hatching.
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (3) : faust, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
________________
Vote Count 1.5
A chef's hat has a number of pleats equal to the number of ways that chef can cook eggs.
mathdude (4) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief, jotheonah
Dylan32 (4) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
2.71828..... (2) : Galzria, Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
scolapasta (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
________________
Vote Count 1.Final
As the eggs sat in the nest, pipping to each other, they decided it would be best to get rid of the red eggs. Unfortunately, their shells being in the way made that hard to do. They had to take their best guess though, and succeeded in pushing a suspicious egg out of the nest.

SPLAT!
Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

Dylan32, an unhatched green egg, has been exiled.

Day two official vote counts

Vote Count 2.1
Cassowary eggs have the thickest shells of any bird, more than half a centimeter thick!
WestCoastDidds (3) : Galzria, jotheonah, mathdude
mathdude (1) : infangthief
scolapasta (1) : gkrieg13
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
 
Not voting (5) : EFHW, MiX, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
__________________
Vote Count 2.2
The Pangea Software game Nanosaur 2: Hatchling was released in 2004 for Windows and Mac and bundled with many Macintosh machines.
mathdude (3) : infangthief, EFHW, Galzria
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, mathdude
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
jotheonah (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (2) : scolapasta, Swowl
 _______________
Vote Count 2.3
Some birds, including cuckoos and cowbirds, lay their eggs in other birds' nests!
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Galzria, Swowl
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, infangthief
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
_________________
Vote Count 2.4
The largest egg ever recorded was laid by an ostrich in Sweden in 2008. It weighed 2.589 kg!
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, mathdude, EFHW
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief
_______________
Vote Count 2.5
The eggs are getting quite wiggly!
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : MiX, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief

_________________
Vote Count 2.Final
The eggs had to avenge faust's untimely demise. But who was responsible? One egg in particular seemed awfully suspicious…
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl
 
scolapasta, an unhatched green egg has been exiled!

[mathdude]

I'd like to understand mathdude's complete turnaround on Didds in #776.

Swowl asked it well just afterwards:

3. How does WCD move into your "will not vote" category from "voting didds" if you "do not read them as more towny than before?"... when you were voting them?

... but got no answer as far as I can see.

I asked again later, and the best answer I got was that exiling scola would be more informative. Which seemed unlikely.

So... what's the real reason mathdude?

I think I know the real reason. (It's that they're scum partners together).

Oh no, you've caught us! Now who is the 3rd?

Really though... Didds, I do hope you're town, even though I still think you're somewhat scummy. Because if you're scum, and people stick with this pairing, then I think you've won the game.  (If they exile me, see I'm town, then they'll IC you... if they exile you and see you're scum, then they'll misexile me).

But to address the original question from fang today (and commenting about fang and Swowl questions yesterday)... it feels like you think I had a hard scum-read of Didds D1 and switched to strongly town-reading her D2. Go read again... I think you're trying to create a connection that isn't there, so you're stretching things.

D1 I believe I was mostly scum-reading MiX and e, but not likely together. But I got a sense that Didds and MiX were a bit partner-y so she was someone I was leery on as well. Then start of D2, others seemed to jump on Didds and I had no other reads at the very start of the day (don't remember if I actually voted or not).

But as D2 went on, I got more scum pings from joth and scola (in the few posts he did make)... so they both jumped ahead of Didds (who hadn't done anything to change my read on her of "sort of scummy"). And toward the end of D2, with the strong opinions on the others, I thought it would be more useful if scola or joth flipped scum than if Didds did  (all 3 of which I thought was still a good possibility).

[infangthief]

er, mathdude, you might want to go and read your posts #628 and #776 again.

Also, what connection did you think I was trying to make?

[mathdude]

er, mathdude, you might want to go and read your posts #628 and #776 again.

Also, what connection did you think I was trying to make?

Post #628... fair enough.  I guess I didn't remember all that when we got toward EoD2, or else I may have still kept Didds in my "would vote" category with joth and scola.

Post #776 though... I don't see anything worth noting there.  I said she still seems scummy, but "now" (at that time), others seem scummier.

[EFHW]

EFHW, you said that you didn't see anything in Galzria's and e's early-day-2 cases on Didds.

What did you think of mathdude's case (#628)?

And when you ISO'd Didds, did you think anything was scummy or towny?

math's case looks like confirmation bias through and through. And it's a bit mean. He disagrees on theory, which doesn't make her scummy. He dismisses the content of her posts and instead says she doesn't sound like herself. He doesn't have a scum narrative, just opportunistic attacks.

Regarding my opinions about Didds' play, overall I found her open, articulate and present. Things that gave me pause were her repeated statements about how relieved she is to be town finally and the wavering of her scumread on Dylan. I thought she handled the pressure on her well. I thought her explanation of her EOD votes was much more convincing than the narratives other people were trying to spin, Galz in particular. I haven't been following her recent reads to see if they make sense. Should do that.

[EFHW]

Oh, EFHW, can you do that vote recap you post sometimes?

Sorry that's too much work at this point. Unlike Space, I have to enter the votes by hand.

[jotheonah]

Yeah so, I don't think I'm going to get to a re-read tonight.

I'm going to London on Sunday for work and there's a lot I have to get done before I go, so this week is kind of a lot at work. And work is spilling into leisure time a bit, c'est la vie. But there's like 4 days til deadline.

[WestCoastDidds]

@EFHW, I can see why my relief at being town sounds as scummy since its so heart-on-the-sleeve, but I was super frustrated by all of the "she seems off" "she's digging herself deeper" with no real reason being articulated, and I was especially frustrated because the "off", to my mind, is because I have been scum twice in a row so my normal from the last three months has been scum and now I'm not. So if I'm off, its off from my scum self.

@Joth safe travels!!

[Swowl]

Oh, EFHW, can you do that vote recap you post sometimes?

Sorry that's too much work at this point. Unlike Space, I have to enter the votes by hand.

It’s not going to be as good, but I have been trying to pound through a whole has voted who list to help my VcA. I’ll post it when I’m done

[J Reggie]

End-of-day posts, which can be accessed through the game tracker, have been updated with all votes placed that day, linked. I can also include this type of list in future vote counts, if people want.

[Swowl]

lol
*facepalm*

[Galzria]

Still reading / putting together my thoughts & answering questions posed to me. Have like 6 different notepads open right now 🤣. I’m about 4 hours into it - I’ll finish up in the am.

[MiX]

End-of-day posts, which can be accessed through the game tracker, have been updated with all votes placed that day, linked. I can also include this type of list in future vote counts, if people want.

Okay, thanks town!Reggie!

I don't think that's fair. But I suppose if every mod did that it would be fine, so...


Well...I guess I have no reason to delay thinking about this game now. I'll do a VCA in this afternoon, saying that here so I actually do it.

[infangthief]

vote: mathdude

And I'll clarify that I am by no means assuming a mathdude + Didds team here. I mean, it is possible, but I think there's also a good chance that mathdude is scum without Didds.

[EFHW]

End-of-day posts, which can be accessed through the game tracker, have been updated with all votes placed that day, linked. I can also include this type of list in future vote counts, if people want.

This is great! Thanks!

[gkrieg13]

Lol faust pushed a misexile all day and still died.

Vote: Galzria

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

He opens the day with a vote and unvote. Then explains later that he thought galz had one of the only town reads on faust, which was incorrect when he reread.

X-2, lol.

Yeah I think if Didds was scum she wouldn't had dug her hole deeper.

He is very aware of the wagon on Didds, which goes back to my point about MiX being overly casual about his own wagon D1.

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

Oo, thanks. I've never done this kind of read-and-comment thing before, but it is kind of fun, but then I worry that I'm commenting on too many things and making a boring load of stuff for people to trawl through / skip over, and maybe people will have already said the stuff. Hopefully there is something fresh somewhere.

Still about 80 posts till I'm caught up. Back into the pit.

I like this a lot. I think you're confirmed town and I would be very surprised you live tonight after this.

So MiX has some interesting stuff at the beginning of the day. He either did not go back and reread carefully N1, or he is acting like he didn't. Does MiX go for misdirection like this as scum?

Like this post by Galzria and also very much appreciate MiX's explication of his reasoning re: faust and Galzria. I still have one question, for MiX, though. Why did you think Galz was the obvious nk choice?

@MiX, I don't think you answered this.

Weird, I thought I had.

Because of the early Galzria discussion. People talked back and forth about my blunt townread on him, but no one scumread him. A lurking D1 Galz is an excellent NK target since it removes a player from the game without giving away information.

I don't think you throw away a good kill N1 like this. So this makes me think he possibly posed this to his partners in the QT?

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum. I think all D1 wagons are town and that Didds is town, but that really doesn't leave much else to do, since it means D1 was overall useless (other than to get to this conclusion), which doesn't get me anyone I want to exile.

I guess if I have to pick someone to die I'd pick scola?

Vote: scola

What is your impression on the D2 wagons, or your current impression of the D1 wagons?

MIXy, what are your Joth thoughts?

Lazy town, so typical joth. I would need to reread more than one game to get a better read on him.

Did you ever do this MiX?

Exiling joth here is like killing the sane person in a murder mystery. Well, I'm sure I had a better analogy when I started this sentence, but not anymore.

What's a better thing to say...it's like if there's two people arguing, and a third person tells them to chill out, and then they both start attacking said third person. It just doesn't make sense. Of course joth can be scum here, but there's absolutely no reason to think that given his posts this game.

Above comment still applies.

Ok, cool. I feel like I'm not playing the same game as everyone else!

Why is this?


Unrelated, I'm trying to ISO scola, it's so not fun that he was active in his latest scum game. It makes me not want to read it. So I need to go aaaaall the way back to find a game where scola was this inactive. Does anyone know one off the top of their head?

Or did you go and do this?

Hmm. Probably should've put more effort into today. I'm fine with scola!exile, but...eh. Maybe I'm just hedging now.

Posting this, and will post a TL;DR in a next post after I look it over.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hmmm… MiX soft defending Joth is interesting. He also had a similarly noncommittal “defense” of me. I don’t think he is normally so hedgey.

That was just a passing thought as I looked at today, but I really came here to say I can spend more time reading soon. It’s my kid’s spring break, but not mine, so I’m a bit stretched.

[gkrieg13]

So the major things that stick out:

• It seems like early D1 he appears to be scum hunting without actually doing it, which is repeated D2. He says multiple times that he is going to need to reread games to find out if people are scum, but then never does. Or he asks if anyone knows a good lurker scum game for scola, which no one responds to. (scum points)
• He consistently tries to get the exile away from math, but not in a direct way. (only pointing out if MiX flips scum)
• He seems to have not reread the thread during the night, or at least didn't read it thoroughly with his first few posts D2. (townie)
• MiX early D1 seems to underreact to a wagon on him (given it was small). This does not seem like the MiX I remember. He also seems to know the state of wagons on all other players, so this seems like a planned underreaction to me. (scum points)

I see this as figuring out what of the next two are most likely:

scum!MiX is not really scum hunting, but trying to appear to scum hunt. He acted like he didn't have a wagon on him early D1, because he knows he is more likely to be exiled if he reacts to the wagon (this point is really minor). He acted like he hadn't read the thread over the night (which he definitely would have given the kill).

town!MiX is being less active this game and wanting to go and reread people or their previous games and is just not getting to it. He really did not reread the thread overnight N1. Because of all this, he is fairly waffley in his reads, or not paying enough attention that he would miss that math was a major exile candidate D1 (where he left him out in his post of who the exile candidates were).

I don't think I've seen that version of town!MiX, but I also am not sure MiX goes for outright deception as scum (planning on opening the day saying he had not really reread the thread). Does anyone have more insight on this?

[gkrieg13]

I planned on doing rereads of other players, but am realizing that I probably won't get to it, unless I go much less in-depth. I'll try to do Swowl and galz at least. I don't feel like I have a good feel of either of them.

[MiX]

I think the fact that I did not do the VCA yet (some fun things came up and I'm still planning to do it tonight) tells you that I did not do the things I said I was going to do. My motivation for this game has overall been low. I trust too many people here, and I've overall liked the thread. Probably should've sheeped more if I realized this earlier, but oh well.

I don't have any impressions on the wagons, other than I think they will be very useful when reading math and Didds. I should get to them tonight.

[MiX]

Vote Count 1.4
Eggs start wiggling around by themselves a few days before hatching.
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (3) : faust, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

This vote count looks really silly.

From a brief view of D1's wagons, Galzria looks terrible. Didds too, but mostly from a "if Galzria is town" perspective. It's just a feeling though.

[MiX]

Vote Count 2.4
The largest egg ever recorded was laid by an ostrich in Sweden in 2008. It weighed 2.589 kg!
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, mathdude, EFHW
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief

_________________
Vote Count 2.Final
The eggs had to avenge faust's untimely demise. But who was responsible? One egg in particular seemed awfully suspicious…
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl
 
scolapasta, an unhatched green egg has been exiled!

These 2 vote counts really make Didds and gkrieg look partnered, as expected.

Now to dig in! Somehow...

[MiX]

The scum team being Didds/math/gkrieg makes too much sense. Just reading VCA it's incredibly hard not to see a cohesive team of 3 people helping each other stay alive. You even have math voting Didds early D2 and then jumping off. I would provide to vote counts saying that this is the team, but it's really all of them. If you simply look at the list of votes D2, you see those 3 voting for other people while other people voting for those 3.

I won't vote because I don't know which one of these is 100% scum, but right now I'm having a hard time thinking about this game without thinking this is the scum team.

[jotheonah]

I’m kinda in the same place as MiX.

[mathdude]

The scum team being Didds/math/gkrieg makes too much sense. Just reading VCA it's incredibly hard not to see a cohesive team of 3 people helping each other stay alive. You even have math voting Didds early D2 and then jumping off. I would provide to vote counts saying that this is the team, but it's really all of them. If you simply look at the list of votes D2, you see those 3 voting for other people while other people voting for those 3.

I won't vote because I don't know which one of these is 100% scum, but right now I'm having a hard time thinking about this game without thinking this is the scum team.

Even if I wanted to try it, I don't think I could justify to myself or a team to work with WIFOM to "obviously" defend teammates.  It does kind of bother me that gkrieg has town-read me so vocally all game.  So unless we had 2 cops hatch N1 and he has a town result on me, he's either reading me better than many of the rest of you, or he's scum trying to make sure I go down with him if he ever gets caught... I hope it's the 1st of those options.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but now I think we've had Didds be read as partnered with MiX, 2.71, and now me/gkrieg... was there another?  And Didds came close to exile D2 but didn't happen - a potential storyline if scum-buddies are helping keep alive.

Can we try to actually go through with a Didds exile today?  Is there any reason not to at this point?

Vote: Didds

[EFHW]

I really want to vote mathdude, but it's really likely that my annoyance is biasing me.

I'm going to vote: Galzria, but consider me a pinch hitter for a mathdude wagon if needed at EOD.

[Swowl]

MiX - finding myself in the same spot. However, this is end of Day 1, which where I am having trouble believing that that exact team is correct.

Vote Count 1.Final
Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

Shortly before the EOD wagon, couple things to note:

WCD - Her voting pattern that day, to entirety, was Dylan->Pasta->Dylan. At the time she went back to Dylan, she did so to be the tie breaking vote vs. E! But... E! was town.
This snap shot of events right here, has me at a hold up. If the team in question is MD, GK, WCD... then what? They chose to kill faust AND THEN E! guaranteeing if we were to exile ANYONE remaining on that wagon we find skum? That seems.. not good. Also, not needed. Didds in that spot could of just done nothing or could of spaced out onto the E! wagon.
If anything.. I would say there was quite some time between WCD being the final vote of the day and the day actually ending, she could of also voted for Math. But obviously in a world where it is WCD!Math!X... never going to do that. Math is on Dylan, I think X was on E! (because there is no way Efoo, or especially Galz, would be on Math if they were team mates at this point).

TLDR; Day 1 Didds is not conducive of a WCD/GK/Math team. However, I do think it could be in favor of a Math!Didds team.
*Counter argument to my own thought* - You would assume that if this were true, then, given the night kill selection they would be pushing GK. So that is weird. Hm. Turns out I need to think about this more actually. I stand by the team call not being likely though.

[Swowl]

Then here as you also pointed out... there is that team potential again:

Vote Count 2.5
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : MiX, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief

Vote Count 2.Final
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl

These moves I have no problem reading as panic. By my day 1 logic, it cannot be GK/Didds/Math. However, I think it is completely possible that there are 2 skum on this pasta wagon, and even possibly 3. I know who I have as #2 regardless, but my #3 is a little up in the air.
Regardless, my #1 has moved to WCD.  I think... I am gonna go iso didds math and GK before I decide. But I am fairly certain we are batting 2/3 in that pool. And as close to 100% as I can be that there is at least 1.

[infangthief]

Vote Count 1.4
Eggs start wiggling around by themselves a few days before hatching.
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (3) : faust, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

This vote count looks really silly.

From a brief view of D1's wagons, Galzria looks terrible. Didds too, but mostly from a "if Galzria is town" perspective. It's just a feeling though.

Hi MiX, I don't understand. I guess I'm a novice at VCA. Why does it look silly? Why do Galzria and Didds look terrible?

[infangthief]

Also MiX, do you have an answer to gkrieg's question here:

Probably should've written this in the previous post, but just quoting a question emanates so much energy.

I understand why people don't want to flip e. On the other hand, e and math have the same alignment. So I'm willing to vote for e? I'm still dying on the Didds wagon though.

I'm (sorta) around for deadline, so it should be okay.

Now that e is flipped, do you still feel like they have the same alignment? He also goes for the e wagon instead of the mathdude wagon EOD1. Maybe scum!MiX was trying to flip town!e and then give it as a reason to make sure scum!math did not get exiled D2?

And I have two more related questions:
- why did you say e and math had the same alignment in the first place?
- why did people not want to flip e?

[infangthief]

And unvote

[MiX]

Also MiX, do you have an answer to gkrieg's question here:

Probably should've written this in the previous post, but just quoting a question emanates so much energy.

I understand why people don't want to flip e. On the other hand, e and math have the same alignment. So I'm willing to vote for e? I'm still dying on the Didds wagon though.

I'm (sorta) around for deadline, so it should be okay.

Now that e is flipped, do you still feel like they have the same alignment? He also goes for the e wagon instead of the mathdude wagon EOD1. Maybe scum!MiX was trying to flip town!e and then give it as a reason to make sure scum!math did not get exiled D2?

And I have two more related questions:
- why did you say e and math had the same alignment in the first place?
- why did people not want to flip e?

- E and math were townreading each other to a degree where if one of them is town I should sheep them, and thus if one is town the other is too. So they need to be the same alignment. Of course now I think that's false, but I just did a VCA, I didn't actially reread.

- Some people were defending e (like faust, maybe?) and I agreed with them because I came out of rereading e with a townread on him.

As for gkrieg's question, well, not anymore, but it's all about how much I should sheep e's reads. I don't have real reads that I can trust other than those from VCA.

[MiX]

Vote Count 1.4
Eggs start wiggling around by themselves a few days before hatching.
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (3) : faust, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

This vote count looks really silly.

From a brief view of D1's wagons, Galzria looks terrible. Didds too, but mostly from a "if Galzria is town" perspective. It's just a feeling though.

Hi MiX, I don't understand. I guess I'm a novice at VCA. Why does it look silly? Why do Galzria and Didds look terrible?

It's silly because the greens are voting greens. It looks terrible for Galz and Didds since they're on the green wagons. It's very hard to consider that both wagons had zero scum in them (not counting joth since his vote was recent at the time).

[infangthief]

Vote Count 1.4
Eggs start wiggling around by themselves a few days before hatching.
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (3) : faust, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

This vote count looks really silly.

From a brief view of D1's wagons, Galzria looks terrible. Didds too, but mostly from a "if Galzria is town" perspective. It's just a feeling though.

Hi MiX, I don't understand. I guess I'm a novice at VCA. Why does it look silly? Why do Galzria and Didds look terrible?

It's silly because the greens are voting greens. It looks terrible for Galz and Didds since they're on the green wagons. It's very hard to consider that both wagons had zero scum in them (not counting joth since his vote was recent at the time).

Ok, thanks for explaining. And how does the "if Galzria is town" perspective have an impact on what the D1 wagons show about Didds?

[MiX]

Ok, thanks for explaining. And how does the "if Galzria is town" perspective have an impact on what the D1 wagons show about Didds?

Mostly that Galzria's position on e is more incriminating than Didds' votes. One of them is probably scum, but Galzria is the scummy one, if that makes sense. If I had to pick the scum in Galzria/Didds just looking at D1's vote counts I would always pick Galz.

[infangthief]

Ok, thanks for explaining. And how does the "if Galzria is town" perspective have an impact on what the D1 wagons show about Didds?

Mostly that Galzria's position on e is more incriminating than Didds' votes. One of them is probably scum, but Galzria is the scummy one, if that makes sense. If I had to pick the scum in Galzria/Didds just looking at D1's vote counts I would always pick Galz.

No, that doesn't make sense, sorry.

[MiX]

Ok, thanks for explaining. And how does the "if Galzria is town" perspective have an impact on what the D1 wagons show about Didds?

Mostly that Galzria's position on e is more incriminating than Didds' votes. One of them is probably scum, but Galzria is the scummy one, if that makes sense. If I had to pick the scum in Galzria/Didds just looking at D1's vote counts I would always pick Galz.

No, that doesn't make sense, sorry.

You shouldn't ask for more clarification then, it will just make me confirmation bias more.

What are your reads? I think you posted them, but I want a summary here.

[infangthief]

My main read at the moment is that MiX has very contradictory positions. Also that he is missing and misrepresenting things a lot. I feel like he is scum tying me up in WIFOM knots.

[MiX]

My main read at the moment is that MiX has very contradictory positions. Also that he is missing and misrepresenting things a lot. I feel like he is scum tying me up in WIFOM knots.

What am I missing and what am I misrepresenting?

Do you not have townreads or other scumreads?

[MiX]

Vote count please!

I was going to make one, but there hasn't been any official vote count yet, so might as well ask for one.

[MiX]

Bleh. Rereading D1, and of course the way scola enters the thread means he's town. I should've put so much more effort into this game...

While I'm here:

Where is everybody?

I can't speak for everybody.  But personally... way too busy in RL, and completely lost in-game.  It almost still feels like another D1 without any scum flips yet.  "I think because this person voted here..." and "my gut tells me..." and "it seems like XX and YY are partnering/buddying/sheeping/etc." is about all I can come up with.  And I don't have time to dig into it deeper.

So where am I at?  At the moment...

MiX and Didds look a bit scummy from how I felt they had minor interactions D1 (I mean when I read them "live" through D1, not looking back at their D1 now in D3 which I haven't done and don't have time to do).

Swowl has been contributing a bit, but I don't recall anything useful that stood out, so it sort of feels like lurking... could be scummy, but I have no idea.

Galz has been very non-existent, like scola was... does that make him scummy?  I don't know.

joth still seems quite scummy to me, as most of his posts seem to be things I think (and avoid posting) when I'm scum, but others seem to be town-reading him for the exact things I think make him scummy.

EFHW and fang, I haven't really had a read on either way all game.

gkrieg has felt townie to me all game, which I recognize is mostly because he has been quite vocal about saying he thinks I'm town, and I know that's confirmation bias, and scum would definitely know I'm town, so I don't really know where that leaves me on him, but I sure hope he's town.

This is one post that for me points to Didds/math/gkrieg. Of course math would scumread Didds, and of course math would townread gkrieg. This makes perfect sense given what the dynamic in the scum chat probably is. The longer explanation for his gkrieg read also pings me a lot.

[infangthief]

My main read at the moment is that MiX has very contradictory positions. Also that he is missing and misrepresenting things a lot. I feel like he is scum tying me up in WIFOM knots.

What am I missing and what am I misrepresenting?

Do you not have townreads or other scumreads?

Here are three things:
- "not counting joth since his vote was recent at the time"; joth joined the e wagon 5 days (IRL) before the vote count that you're referring to.
- "Didds [looks terrible] but mostly from a "if Galzria is town" perspective"; but then when I asked it's just Galzria more scummy than Didds.
- you seem to be ignoring Galzria's D1 vote on mathdude, who was on your "probably scum" list along with Didds.

I don't want to say more about my scumreads at the moment.

PPE 1

[infangthief]

I'm guessing this is all "hi I'm MiX I'm really not paying attention to this game, hey even when I'm doing some detailed VCA I'm missing things all the time"...

[MiX]

I'm guessing this is all "hi I'm MiX I'm really not paying attention to this game, hey even when I'm doing some detailed VCA I'm missing things all the time"...

Do note I'm literally only looking at the votes. I don't have context for them. That explains the joth thing...but hey, Galz and Dylan were on e for longer, right?

Whereas for Galz, yeah, if he's scum then math isn't, but that's not very useful when I don't know either's alignment.

Is your only vocal scumread me? That's pretty bad.

[infangthief]

I think I've been vocal about others also (Didds and mathdude at least), but I don't want to say my current position on them.

You got it vocally because you asked.

[infangthief]

But I think your ongoing analysis etc is good and useful, and you answered my questions about e, that was helpful. I didn't want to get into an argument, just couldn't resist it when you asked me to share my reads.

There's stuff I want to ask Didds and mathdude, and I'm waiting with baited breath for what Galzria may (or may not) come up with.

[infangthief]

Didds, what do you make of mathdude's post #988 here:

I'd like to understand mathdude's complete turnaround on Didds in #776.

Swowl asked it well just afterwards:

3. How does WCD move into your "will not vote" category from "voting didds" if you "do not read them as more towny than before?"... when you were voting them?

... but got no answer as far as I can see.

I asked again later, and the best answer I got was that exiling scola would be more informative. Which seemed unlikely.

So... what's the real reason mathdude?

I think I know the real reason. (It's that they're scum partners together).

Oh no, you've caught us! Now who is the 3rd?

Really though... Didds, I do hope you're town, even though I still think you're somewhat scummy. Because if you're scum, and people stick with this pairing, then I think you've won the game.  (If they exile me, see I'm town, then they'll IC you... if they exile you and see you're scum, then they'll misexile me).

But to address the original question from fang today (and commenting about fang and Swowl questions yesterday)... it feels like you think I had a hard scum-read of Didds D1 and switched to strongly town-reading her D2. Go read again... I think you're trying to create a connection that isn't there, so you're stretching things.

D1 I believe I was mostly scum-reading MiX and e, but not likely together. But I got a sense that Didds and MiX were a bit partner-y so she was someone I was leery on as well. Then start of D2, others seemed to jump on Didds and I had no other reads at the very start of the day (don't remember if I actually voted or not).

But as D2 went on, I got more scum pings from joth and scola (in the few posts he did make)... so they both jumped ahead of Didds (who hadn't done anything to change my read on her of "sort of scummy"). And toward the end of D2, with the strong opinions on the others, I thought it would be more useful if scola or joth flipped scum than if Didds did  (all 3 of which I thought was still a good possibility).

You've posted since then, but not made any comment on this very weird looking post which addresses you quite a bit.

[mathdude]

For those looking at Didds/math/gk and wondering why it doesn't make sense... it's because math isn't scum. Try Didds/gk/Galz. Try Didds/gk/MiX. Try Didds/Galz/MiX. Try other combos.

[WestCoastDidds]

For those looking at Didds/math/gk and wondering why it doesn't make sense... it's because math isn't scum. Try Didds/gk/Galz. Try Didds/gk/MiX. Try Didds/Galz/MiX. Try other combos.

Hmmm..  interesting.  I am caught up now, and those folks are among my would exile today.  Specifically math >gkrieg> Galzy > Mix.  I cannot see myself voting for anyone other than that group. I realize that is like half the game, but there's lots of scum so it tracks.

vote: Mathdude

[mathdude]

Well, I went back to see how much people have been posting, to make sure I wasn't missing other people who haven't helped out much.  These post-counts were done manually, and do not account for actual content (like word counts... where's space when you need him?), but maybe there will be something useful here.

Number listed are D1 posts, D2 posts, and D3 posts so far

MiX: 53, 31, 15
Swowl: 32, 19, 8
Galz: 9, 11, 2
math: 26, 26, 8
EFHW: 46, 35, 13
Didds: 50, 43, 15
joth: 49, 35, 12
gkrieg: 30, 35, 7
fang: 76, 71, 22

But that accounts for a lot of double-posting (or more)... when people "catch up".  So the list above is half-decent for how much content someone has provided (not as good as space's word-count updates), but it doesn't really show how often someone actually shows up to the thread.  So the list below is how many times each person has "shown up" (which ignores any posts that were made immediately after a previous post of theirs) - basically, if they post a single post, 2 in a row, or 6 in a row, all of that counts as 1.

MiX: 45, 28., 9
Swowl: 16, 9, 6
Galz: 8, 10, 2
math: 13, 15, 7
EFHW: 29, 21, 8
Didds: 33, 30, 11
joth: 37, 29, 9
gkrieg: 15, 16, 4
fang: 44, 40, 15

So what do I see?  A few things that might be of note:
Galz doesn't show up much, and when he does, he never actually "catches up" (there's almost no multi-posts from him).
Swowl, me, and gkrieg all seem quite busy... moderate post counts, and a lot of double-up posts when we do show up.
MiX, EFHW, Didds, joth, and fang all have higher post counts in general, and varying amounts of double-up posts.

Does any of that seem out of the ordinary?  D1 and D2 posts counts line up reasonably for everyone.  D3 is probably still too early to see if people are posting a lot extra or posting less.

So after typing all this, I don't see much useful in it.  Maybe someone else will find it helpful?  I think I'll go back to the vote counts again and see what makes sense and what doesn't.  Are we going to find a full team of 3 out of it?  Probably not... until we actually get a confirmed red flip.  But will we maybe find pairings?  I hope so.

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 3.1
Eggs in the US are required to be washed and processed before being sold for consumption. This removes a layer called the cuticle, which means the eggs have to be refrigerated.

WestCoastDidds (1) : mathdude
Galzria (1) : EFHW
mathdude (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (6) : Galzria, gkrieg13, infangthief, jotheonah, MiX, Swowl
 
Currently, WestCoastDidds is set to be exiled!  Day 3 ends March 12, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

Votes:
infangthief -> mathdude
mathdude -> WestCoastDidds
EFHW -> Galzria
infangthief -> --
WestCoastDidds -> mathdude

[gkrieg13]

And unvote

Why this unvote?

[infangthief]

And unvote

Why this unvote?

Because I can see various possible teams and am not at all sure at the moment who I suspect most. I hope to be more sure soon.

Didds, please let me know what you think of mathdude's post #988.

[gkrieg13]

Ok, lightning reread of galz.

He has an early reads list, like post 3, likely meaningless, but then he actually votes for his top scumread.

Has a spat with faust about whose vote was lazier.

Then votes for mathdude, which faust calls lazy.

End of D1.

He puts in a seemingly huge amount of effort on a case on WCD, followed by a quite-thorough pestering of her.

He talks about his naked vote on mathdude after being prodded and says it was to figure out faust's reaction, then asks about how others perceived faust's reaction, which is very odd to me, because faust was dead.

He then starts to engage with some posts D2, like my telling scola he should just put Didds at X-1.

He does say that he is caught up for most of D2, but just not able to make any posts. Not sure if that is more likely to come from scum!galz or town!galz. I know I have a harder time posting as scum, even if I'm caught up.

Ends the day with a sheep on EFHW onto mathdude, but gives some thoughts on the other wagons and why he is sheeping EFHW.

Nothing really D3

Overall, much easier to reread than MiX 
He spends a lot of time justifying his vote for mathdude at the end of D1, when it doesn't seem like it was necessary to defend. I'm surprised then that he sheeps EFHW back onto mathdude to end D2. Had his reads changed on Didds that much from his case at the beginning of the day? He says that he is still chewing on his thoughts on WCD, but then never really says what changed his mind, when he is really the first person to leave the wagon that he started. Maybe he was surprised so many people followed him onto WCD?

My questions for galz:
Do you feel like people perceived your late D1 mathdude vote scummy?
What do you think about the people that followed you onto WCD?
What changed your mind on WCD between the start of D2 and the end when you voted mathdude again?
Why do you think mathdude is scum?

[gkrieg13]

And unvote

Why this unvote?

Because I can see various possible teams and am not at all sure at the moment who I suspect most. I hope to be more sure soon.

Didds, please let me know what you think of mathdude's post #988.

What are you doing to strengthen your reads?

[gkrieg13]

End-of-day posts, which can be accessed through the game tracker, have been updated with all votes placed that day, linked. I can also include this type of list in future vote counts, if people want.

I also just understood what this meant when rereading galz. Very cool.

[gkrieg13]

I think the fact that I did not do the VCA yet (some fun things came up and I'm still planning to do it tonight) tells you that I did not do the things I said I was going to do. My motivation for this game has overall been low. I trust too many people here, and I've overall liked the thread. Probably should've sheeped more if I realized this earlier, but oh well.

I don't have any impressions on the wagons, other than I think they will be very useful when reading math and Didds. I should get to them tonight.

Is this a response to my reread on you?

[MiX]

I think the fact that I did not do the VCA yet (some fun things came up and I'm still planning to do it tonight) tells you that I did not do the things I said I was going to do. My motivation for this game has overall been low. I trust too many people here, and I've overall liked the thread. Probably should've sheeped more if I realized this earlier, but oh well.

I don't have any impressions on the wagons, other than I think they will be very useful when reading math and Didds. I should get to them tonight.

Is this a response to my reread on you?

Yes.

[MiX]

Gkrieg, do you have a read on Galz, and if so, can you tell us what it is?

[gkrieg13]

Bleh. Rereading D1, and of course the way scola enters the thread means he's town. I should've put so much more effort into this game...

While I'm here:

Where is everybody?

I can't speak for everybody.  But personally... way too busy in RL, and completely lost in-game.  It almost still feels like another D1 without any scum flips yet.  "I think because this person voted here..." and "my gut tells me..." and "it seems like XX and YY are partnering/buddying/sheeping/etc." is about all I can come up with.  And I don't have time to dig into it deeper.

So where am I at?  At the moment...

MiX and Didds look a bit scummy from how I felt they had minor interactions D1 (I mean when I read them "live" through D1, not looking back at their D1 now in D3 which I haven't done and don't have time to do).

Swowl has been contributing a bit, but I don't recall anything useful that stood out, so it sort of feels like lurking... could be scummy, but I have no idea.

Galz has been very non-existent, like scola was... does that make him scummy?  I don't know.

joth still seems quite scummy to me, as most of his posts seem to be things I think (and avoid posting) when I'm scum, but others seem to be town-reading him for the exact things I think make him scummy.

EFHW and fang, I haven't really had a read on either way all game.

gkrieg has felt townie to me all game, which I recognize is mostly because he has been quite vocal about saying he thinks I'm town, and I know that's confirmation bias, and scum would definitely know I'm town, so I don't really know where that leaves me on him, but I sure hope he's town.

This is one post that for me points to Didds/math/gkrieg. Of course math would scumread Didds, and of course math would townread gkrieg. This makes perfect sense given what the dynamic in the scum chat probably is. The longer explanation for his gkrieg read also pings me a lot.

Do scum teams really mutually townread each other?

[gkrieg13]

I think the fact that I did not do the VCA yet (some fun things came up and I'm still planning to do it tonight) tells you that I did not do the things I said I was going to do. My motivation for this game has overall been low. I trust too many people here, and I've overall liked the thread. Probably should've sheeped more if I realized this earlier, but oh well.

I don't have any impressions on the wagons, other than I think they will be very useful when reading math and Didds. I should get to them tonight.

Is this a response to my reread on you?

Yes.

Wanna answer any of the questions I posed to you in the posts where I quoted you?

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg, do you have a read on Galz, and if so, can you tell us what it is?

I'm very surprised he has only gotten 1 vote the whole game. Waiting to hear a response from him to my questions.

[MiX]

Do scum teams really mutually townread each other?

In this game, why not? There's usually some cohesion, especially if they're under fire. You know they're not mad bussing because there's no red flips yet.

Wanna answer any of the questions I posed to you in the posts where I quoted you?

I thought I had...that post was all the answers to your questions. Did I miss any? Most of the answers are "no I didn't do that" and "I don't know".

[gkrieg13]

The scum team being Didds/math/gkrieg makes too much sense. Just reading VCA it's incredibly hard not to see a cohesive team of 3 people helping each other stay alive. You even have math voting Didds early D2 and then jumping off. I would provide to vote counts saying that this is the team, but it's really all of them. If you simply look at the list of votes D2, you see those 3 voting for other people while other people voting for those 3.

I won't vote because I don't know which one of these is 100% scum, but right now I'm having a hard time thinking about this game without thinking this is the scum team.

As Didds partner, I would never try to get her put to X-1 early in the day, or being annoyed that many people were scumreading her without voting.

[gkrieg13]

MiX - finding myself in the same spot. However, this is end of Day 1, which where I am having trouble believing that that exact team is correct.

Vote Count 1.Final
Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

Shortly before the EOD wagon, couple things to note:

WCD - Her voting pattern that day, to entirety, was Dylan->Pasta->Dylan. At the time she went back to Dylan, she did so to be the tie breaking vote vs. E! But... E! was town.
This snap shot of events right here, has me at a hold up. If the team in question is MD, GK, WCD... then what? They chose to kill faust AND THEN E! guaranteeing if we were to exile ANYONE remaining on that wagon we find skum? That seems.. not good. Also, not needed. Didds in that spot could of just done nothing or could of spaced out onto the E! wagon.
If anything.. I would say there was quite some time between WCD being the final vote of the day and the day actually ending, she could of also voted for Math. But obviously in a world where it is WCD!Math!X... never going to do that. Math is on Dylan, I think X was on E! (because there is no way Efoo, or especially Galz, would be on Math if they were team mates at this point).

TLDR; Day 1 Didds is not conducive of a WCD/GK/Math team. However, I do think it could be in favor of a Math!Didds team.
*Counter argument to my own thought* - You would assume that if this were true, then, given the night kill selection they would be pushing GK. So that is weird. Hm. Turns out I need to think about this more actually. I stand by the team call not being likely though.

Did everyone just skip this post?

Also Swowl, why would they be pushing me? Wouldn't they want to keep me unflipped to not end up in the situation they are in?

[gkrieg13]

Oh, I just realized you mean they would be pushing me right now.

[gkrieg13]

MiX, what do you think about the EoD1 vote count that Swowl points out?

[MiX]

MiX, what do you think about the EoD1 vote count that Swowl points out?

I agree that the team being exactly Didds/math/gkrieg does not work (perfectly, at least), but I think we flip scum today if we assume it does. Well, at least I think there's 2 scum in that list, or at the very least we can exile a scum in there. And I agree with his math/Didds call, of course.

[WestCoastDidds]

Fang, this is the post that you want a response to?

I'd like to understand mathdude's complete turnaround on Didds in #776.

Swowl asked it well just afterwards:

3. How does WCD move into your "will not vote" category from "voting didds" if you "do not read them as more towny than before?"... when you were voting them?

... but got no answer as far as I can see.

I asked again later, and the best answer I got was that exiling scola would be more informative. Which seemed unlikely.

So... what's the real reason mathdude?

I think I know the real reason. (It's that they're scum partners together).

Oh no, you've caught us! Now who is the 3rd?

1. Really though... Didds, I do hope you're town, even though I still think you're somewhat scummy. Because if you're scum, and people stick with this pairing, then I think you've won the game.  (If they exile me, see I'm town, then they'll IC you... if they exile you and see you're scum, then they'll misexile me).

2. But to address the original question from fang today (and commenting about fang and Swowl questions yesterday)... it feels like you think I had a hard scum-read of Didds D1 and switched to strongly town-reading her D2. Go read again... I think you're trying to create a connection that isn't there, so you're stretching things.

3. D1 I believe I was mostly scum-reading MiX and e, but not likely together. But I got a sense that Didds and MiX were a bit partner-y so she was someone I was leery on as well. Then start of D2, others seemed to jump on Didds and I had no other reads at the very start of the day (don't remember if I actually voted or not).

4. But as D2 went on, I got more scum pings from joth and scola (in the few posts he did make)... so they both jumped ahead of Didds (who hadn't done anything to change my read on her of "sort of scummy"). And toward the end of D2, with the strong opinions on the others, I thought it would be more useful if scola or joth flipped scum than if Didds did  (all 3 of which I thought was still a good possibility).

I don't really have a lot to say, thus my non-response. By paragraph

1. Um, I am town, so no worries. Trying to tie my flip with his is interesting since to me, that is trying to tie my green-ness with his alighnment.  If I get exiled, don't let him get away with it.

2. I guess I agree. There is no connection between us.

3. Oh wait.... this is interesting. Thanks for having me reread. The first part... I don't see how MiX and I are being partner-y. The game where MiX and I were partners, it looked nothing like this. But math not knowing he voted for me on D2?  What?!  His "digging a hole comment" had me on tilt for a good long while.  And then there was the mega post that EFHW called somewhat mean (I agree) at #628 http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21053.msg886800#msg886800 so that he didn't have a read and if he had he didn't really act on it is really disingenuous.

4. I agree those people were all scummier than me.

PPE:1

[infangthief]

Thank you Didds.

And I thought you would find his 3rd paragraph interesting. Enough skin in the game, eh?

There are a few people wanting a mathdude + Didds team. Day 2 you gave some reasons why Didds+Mix didn't make sense - can you give any reasons why Didds+mathdude doesn't make sense?

[EFHW]

And unvote

Why this unvote?

Because I can see various possible teams and am not at all sure at the moment who I suspect most. I hope to be more sure soon.

Didds, please let me know what you think of mathdude's post #988.

Still too early to be looking for teams.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am adding fang to my town core.

[infangthief]

I am adding fang to my town core.

I don't think that has ever happened before.

Still, any reason why we shouldn't suspect you and mathdude to be partners?

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t vote for my partners. Pretty much, ever.

[WestCoastDidds]

Fang, this is the post that you want a response to?

I'd like to understand mathdude's complete turnaround on Didds in #776.

Swowl asked it well just afterwards:

3. How does WCD move into your "will not vote" category from "voting didds" if you "do not read them as more towny than before?"... when you were voting them?

... but got no answer as far as I can see.

I asked again later, and the best answer I got was that exiling scola would be more informative. Which seemed unlikely.

So... what's the real reason mathdude?

I think I know the real reason. (It's that they're scum partners together).

Oh no, you've caught us! Now who is the 3rd?

1. Really though... Didds, I do hope you're town, even though I still think you're somewhat scummy. Because if you're scum, and people stick with this pairing, then I think you've won the game.  (If they exile me, see I'm town, then they'll IC you... if they exile you and see you're scum, then they'll misexile me).

2. But to address the original question from fang today (and commenting about fang and Swowl questions yesterday)... it feels like you think I had a hard scum-read of Didds D1 and switched to strongly town-reading her D2. Go read again... I think you're trying to create a connection that isn't there, so you're stretching things.

3. D1 I believe I was mostly scum-reading MiX and e, but not likely together. But I got a sense that Didds and MiX were a bit partner-y so she was someone I was leery on as well. Then start of D2, others seemed to jump on Didds and I had no other reads at the very start of the day (don't remember if I actually voted or not).

4. But as D2 went on, I got more scum pings from joth and scola (in the few posts he did make)... so they both jumped ahead of Didds (who hadn't done anything to change my read on her of "sort of scummy"). And toward the end of D2, with the strong opinions on the others, I thought it would be more useful if scola or joth flipped scum than if Didds did  (all 3 of which I thought was still a good possibility).

I don't really have a lot to say, thus my non-response. By paragraph

1. Um, I am town, so no worries. Trying to tie my flip with his is interesting since to me, that is trying to tie my green-ness with his alighnment.  If I get exiled, don't let him get away with it.

2. I guess I agree. There is no connection between us.

3. Oh wait.... this is interesting. Thanks for having me reread. The first part... I don't see how MiX and I are being partner-y. The game where MiX and I were partners, it looked nothing like this. But math not knowing he voted for me on D2?  What?!  His "digging a hole comment" had me on tilt for a good long while.  And then there was the mega post that EFHW called somewhat mean (I agree) at #628 http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21053.msg886800#msg886800 so that he didn't have a read and if he had he didn't really act on it is really disingenuous.

4. I agree those people were all scummier than me.

PPE:1

Y’all should go back and read this post that fang singled out in the context of his D2 (linked in my response.

[infangthief]

Right. I'm fairly sure Didds and mathdude are not partners.

Look at this vote count from near the end of day 1:

Vote Count 1.5
A chef's hat has a number of pleats equal to the number of ways that chef can cook eggs.[/color][/center]
mathdude (4) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief, jotheonah
Dylan32 (4) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
2.71828..... (2) : Galzria, Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
scolapasta (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
 
Currently, mathdude is set to be exiled! Day 1 ends February 22, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time (the time in the upper right hand corner of your page). That's just under 8½ hours from now.

The last change before that vote count was Didds moving from Dylan to scolapasta. That changed the leading wagon from Dylan (5) to a tie between mathdude and Dylan (4 each). Technically mathdude became the leading wagon, but enough people were unaware of how tiebreaking worked that let's just say they were tied.

So that vote change jeopardises mathdude.
Seems unlikely that Didds would do that to her scum partner.
But more than that, she would surely be aware of the wagon on her scum partner, or even if by some miracle she was unaware of that, surely mathdude lets her know N1 how close she came to causing his exile. You know, "lucky we got away with that, but that'll actually be helpful later to prove we're not linked".

So now, asking Didds if there's any reason she and mathdude can't be partners, surely she would have mentioned that vote move day 1, if she was aware of it. But she didn't.

So I'm sold on them not being partners.

[infangthief]

So I'm fairly sure I want to vote mathdude, but it is late here and I'm probably being influenced by Didds' recent flattery/buddying, so I'll try to do an objective Didds re-read in the morning.

[WestCoastDidds]

So I'm fairly sure I want to vote mathdude, but it is late here and I'm probably being influenced by Didds' recent flattery/buddying, so I'll try to do an objective Didds re-read in the morning.

Eh… don’t worry too much. I’m a friend to all! It’s kind of my thing.

[Swowl]

Right. I'm fairly sure Didds and mathdude are not partners.

So I'm sold on them not being partners.

So kinda…
WCD moves the way you say… but with like nearly half a day left to go still. So math was never in danger of actually being the exile - as he was only like X-4.

Also also…. She ended up back on Dylan eod to swing that wagon

[Swowl]

I will however give you that it seems like an unnecessary amount of movement… which is interesting. And works against the partner pairing.

[Galzria]

Wall Posts inc tonight when I’m off mobile - finished this morning

[infangthief]

Wall Posts inc tonight when I’m off mobile - finished this morning

Are we getting this?

I've reread Didds and happy with her being town.

vote: Galzria seems like a good place to be while I go and reread mathdude.

[infangthief]

I haven't reread mathdude yet, but I think where I'm at is:

Scummiest: mathdude, MiX, Galzria
Towniest: EFHW, Swowl
Which leaves in the middle: gkrieg, joth, Didds

[WestCoastDidds]

Deadline is 23.5 hours away….

WestCoastDidds (1) : mathdude
Galzria (2) : EFHW, fang
mathdude (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (6) : Galzria, gkrieg13, jotheonah, MiX, Swowl
Day 3 ends March 12, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

[MiX]

Vote: math

[WestCoastDidds]

For anyone waiting to share their reads or do a reread… the time has come. LFG.

[infangthief]

So I've read most of mathdude again, and I still think most likely scum.

But I also do not want to let Galzria slide by without his promised contribution. I recall a game I spectated recently in which Galzria kept promising stuff and leaving it later and later in the day, and he was scum, exiled day 1. This feels similar.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: MiX

[infangthief]

mathdude, you've at least twice mentioned the "strong" or "polarising" opinions people had about scolapasta. Can you elaborate?

I can't recall anyone expressing strong scola views, except for gkrieg. And I would say at least 6 people (MiX, Didds, e, EFHW, me and you) were all rather hedgy, kind of happy to vote there but maybe preferring to vote somewhere else.

[WestCoastDidds]

Deadline is 23.5 hours away….

WestCoastDidds (1) : mathdude
Galzria (2) : EFHW, fang
mathdude (2) : WestCoastDidds, MiX
MIX (1): gkrieg
 
Not voting (6) : Galzria, jotheonah, Swowl
Day 3 ends March 12, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

[MiX]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

Sheeping fang, and also math seems like the weakest link in my theory.

[infangthief]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

Sheeping fang, and also math seems like the weakest link in my theory.

"Weakest link" as in most likely to be scum, or easiest to exile?

[MiX]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

Sheeping fang, and also math seems like the weakest link in my theory.

"Weakest link" as in most likely to be scum, or easiest to exile?

I guess both? It was supposed to be the first one.

[gkrieg13]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

I said that MiX is either scum or lazy town, and then he proceeded to double down on the lazy town thing. I just don't see MiX doing this. He also has one of the highest post counts, so he is being active in the thread, just not actually doing any scum hunting. He did a wagon analysis, but then didn't really do anything to try to verify that what he found was correct.

[mathdude]

Quick lunch post...

Vote: Galz
Part self-preservation, part policy, part seems like scum lurking.

Gkrieg makes a good case about MiX. Might switch to there. I'll look more after school and answer fang's questions.

[MiX]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

I said that MiX is either scum or lazy town, and then he proceeded to double down on the lazy town thing. I just don't see MiX doing this. He also has one of the highest post counts, so he is being active in the thread, just not actually doing any scum hunting. He did a wagon analysis, but then didn't really do anything to try to verify that what he found was correct.

Hold on...did you want me to double down on the scum instead? I never said you were wrong on that dichotomy.

[gkrieg13]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

I said that MiX is either scum or lazy town, and then he proceeded to double down on the lazy town thing. I just don't see MiX doing this. He also has one of the highest post counts, so he is being active in the thread, just not actually doing any scum hunting. He did a wagon analysis, but then didn't really do anything to try to verify that what he found was correct.

Hold on...did you want me to double down on the scum instead? I never said you were wrong on that dichotomy.

In my reread, I gave scum!MiX a game plan: just be lazy, and gkrieg will think you're town. I feel like you read that and then your D3 has been what I said above. I think what tipped the scales was math's post, showing you still had a very high post count.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

Sheeping fang, and also math seems like the weakest link in my theory.

But you didn’t sheep fang. He’s voting for Galz

[gkrieg13]

So I've read most of mathdude again, and I still think most likely scum.

But I also do not want to let Galzria slide by without his promised contribution. I recall a game I spectated recently in which Galzria kept promising stuff and leaving it later and later in the day, and he was scum, exiled day 1. This feels similar.

This is how I feel about galz after my reread.

[MiX]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

I said that MiX is either scum or lazy town, and then he proceeded to double down on the lazy town thing. I just don't see MiX doing this. He also has one of the highest post counts, so he is being active in the thread, just not actually doing any scum hunting. He did a wagon analysis, but then didn't really do anything to try to verify that what he found was correct.

Hold on...did you want me to double down on the scum instead? I never said you were wrong on that dichotomy.

In my reread, I gave scum!MiX a game plan: just be lazy, and gkrieg will think you're town. I feel like you read that and then your D3 has been what I said above. I think what tipped the scales was math's post, showing you still had a very high post count.

What, no, the gameplan you gave me was "be active and gkrieg will think he's town", because I've been lazy this entire game. If I'm scum, then I know how I look, and I also know it won't carry me the entire game. So there's really 2 plans for scum!me, be active and steer the town into exiling town, or be lazy and bus.

Think about it this way: if I'm scum, I already know I've been playing the lazy town card for the whole game. So your post cannot influence me to be even lazier.

[MiX]

MiX, gkrieg… care to share the reason for your votes?

Sheeping fang, and also math seems like the weakest link in my theory.

But you didn’t sheep fang. He’s voting for Galz

I'm sheeping his reads, not his vote. His vote might be right, but I know his read is correct.

[jotheonah]

Vote: mathdude

Galzria is a terrible idea today. Even if he's scum, which he's not, his exile will tell us absolutely nothing about who his partners are. I think his disengagement is a null-tell, but if it's anything it's a town tell because Galzria tends to try pretty hard as scum.

[EFHW]

vote: mathdude that's X-1. 

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 3.2
Bird species that live in colder climates tend to lay darker eggs. These darker shells allow the eggs to absorb more heat.

mathdude (4) : WestCoastDidds, MiX, jotheonah, EFHW
Galzria (2) : infangthief, mathdude
MiX (1) : gkrieg13
 
Not voting (2) : Galzria, Swowl
 
Currently, mathdude is set to be exiled!  Day 3 ends March 12, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

Votes:
infangthief -> mathdude
mathdude -> WestCoastDidds
EFHW -> Galzria
infangthief -> --
WestCoastDidds -> mathdude
infangthief -> Galzria
MiX -> mathdude
gkrieg13 -> MiX
mathdude -> Galzria
jotheonah -> mathdude
EFHW -> mathdude

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: mathdude

Galzria is a terrible idea today. Even if he's scum, which he's not, his exile will tell us absolutely nothing about who his partners are. I think his disengagement is a null-tell, but if it's anything it's a town tell because Galzria tends to try pretty hard as scum.

This is very Joth sounding like MiX and it makes me nervous

[infangthief]

vote: MiX

I wish I could wait up longer and see what happens to that mathdude wagon next, before posting this, but I need to turn in for the night, so I will say this now.

I do not have a good feeling about MiX. gkrieg's case on him is not bad either, the bit about him not bothering to check whether his VCA findings are accurate.

So with mathdude on eggs-minus-one and MiX voting for him, I've gone and reread MiX.

There's lots I could talk about, but one very relevant thing I came across is #822, where he argues against joth being on X-1 near the end of day 2. For someone who says they've not been paying enough attention this game, it is quite something for him to say:

"Of course joth can be scum here, but there's absolutely no reason to think that given his posts this game."

So I would say MiX + joth looks very possible.

And overall MiX is right up there probably more scummy than mathdude from this reread.

I do not like this mathdude wagon.

PPE 1

[infangthief]

Vote: mathdude

Galzria is a terrible idea today. Even if he's scum, which he's not, his exile will tell us absolutely nothing about who his partners are. I think his disengagement is a null-tell, but if it's anything it's a town tell because Galzria tends to try pretty hard as scum.

This is very Joth sounding like MiX and it makes me nervous

Hmm, yes, I suppose so. Actually, this is joth's first post in like about 36 hours. A weird way to rejoin the thread.

[Swowl]

So 3 point reads were not doing anything so I expanded it to 4 and included MiX.
That leaves [Math, Didds, GK, MiX]

Vote Count 1.3!
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (2) : faust, WestCoastDidds
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

- Didds on town with Town.
- MiX is UNK with GK and Math on UNK!MiX
- Also there is the math wagon, which I am being bias about because the other 2 on it are my top town reads (EFHW and Fang).
--- Snap shot makes me suspect Math>GK and WCD/MiX at equal.


Vc 1.5
mathdude (4) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief, jotheonah
Dylan32 (4) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
2.71828..... (2) : Galzria, Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
scolapasta (1) : WestCoastDidds
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

- Math wagon makes me suspicious of Joth. But no where near enough to address it today over the other options.
- Obv the big on is the Dylan wagon, with Math and GK. This time tie on Math and GK - just based on there being 8 hours left and potential self prez for math. But that is for sure a potential team pairing at that point.
- Both the one off votes of mix and didds end up split over the 2 wagons at the eod. So that is something to be noted as that is another potential partner pairing.

Vote Count 1.Final
Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

- Dylan wagon. Been covered. There is skum there. Not 100% on how many but I will go ahead and say 100% I think there is skum.
- E wagon. If I have to pick one I pick MiX. But I also pick Galz over MiX, but Galz wasn't in the iso, so focusing on the top 3 on this one.
- Math wagon. Again, not the focus for today. Galz is the pick if I am picking I guess, but honestly that is just based more on my towncore read on efoo this game.

 
Vote Count 2.2
mathdude (3) : infangthief, EFHW, Galzria
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, mathdude
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
jotheonah (1) : WestCoastDidds
Not voting (2) : scolapasta, Swowl

- Math wagon. Weird but early day I guess. Without reading too much into it, it makes galz look good if WCD is town. And reversed ofc.
- WCD wagon. For Math to be town here it is either a weird early bus or imo Galz has to be skum.... making it like Didds/Galz.... GK/MiX? note to self to look into that bit later.

Vote Count 2.5
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : MiX, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief

- Math wagon. skumster on math
- Joth wagon. WCD>GK
- GK wagon. Super interesting.
- Overall super interesting snap shot. None of my suspected are voting for other suspected but 2 of them on are on Joth and 2 of them are on conf!town pasta. Makes pairings between any 2 of them fairly likely.

Vote Count 2.Final
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl

cool so I will just simplify it off of both the 2 day end VCs...

Day 1
Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

Vote Count 2.Final
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl

That is Math GK Didds on both final wagons.
Day 1 Defense on Math.
Day 2 Defense on Didds.
But I do not think that Math and Didds are both skum.
So it is either Math or Didds and the second is GK.
The third is a throw up between MiX/Galz - Followd by Joth.

I am not going to hammer until tonight. I would also be ok with Didds. I will place my vote when I get back from coaching this evening.

[jotheonah]

Vote: mathdude

Galzria is a terrible idea today. Even if he's scum, which he's not, his exile will tell us absolutely nothing about who his partners are. I think his disengagement is a null-tell, but if it's anything it's a town tell because Galzria tends to try pretty hard as scum.

This is very Joth sounding like MiX and it makes me nervous

Hmm, yes, I suppose so. Actually, this is joth's first post in like about 36 hours. A weird way to rejoin the thread.

Ah yes. So weird to show up slightly before deadline, express a negative opinion about the leading wagon, and vote for a competing one. What a bizarre reason to show up and make a post.

[EFHW]

@Swowl. Did you get any insight from that analysis?

[WestCoastDidds]

Swowl, my feathered friend, if you can look within your inner Thelma and know that I am town, it will make your analysis much more decisive and it will help solidify our town core. You know the town me better than anyone. When it’s scum me, I avoid talking to you because you’re you. This is town me.

[Swowl]

@Swowl. Did you get any insight from that analysis?

Way the fuck less than I was hoping for.
I am solidified on 2/4 minimum of my bolded vs 1/3 minimum from previous pool. But that is about it.

[infangthief]

Good morning. Probably still evening for Swowl and absent-Galzria.

Another thought I had about mathdude is that the night-kills have been the people who would not vote for mathdude. faust and e. gkrieg is the only one left who hasn't been happy to vote there. So I wonder if scum have been setting things up for a mathdude mis-exile.

If mathdude is scum then at least one of his partners has been doing some serious bussing. The only non-busser could be gkrieg.
Galzria and Swowl ending the day on him twice, each time with him the leading wagon at the end of US time for the day.
EFHW and me been pushing his wagon a lot, EFHW placing the X-1 vote here.
Didds, MiX and joth all on this X-1 wagon at the moment. If there is a busser it is among these three. Didds is unlikely to bus in my experience. joth, could be bussing, but quite gutsy the way he's joined the mathdude wagon towards the end of all three days. So we back to MiX as the most likely busser.

So, maybe MiX is bussing. But I think far more likely that mathdude is town and scum have set him up.

[Swowl]

Explain “set up”
If I’m not hear tomorrow someone insist upon exactly what that means. Names concepts, not general stuff

[Swowl]

Here tomorrow*

[Swowl]

Just to be super duper clear - on my phone - but the latest sentence. How in the absolute hell yeah is math being “set up”?

[Swowl]

K.been more than enough time.
Hammering. Not allowing myself to go to sleep and see it flipped to Galz or Mix.
I’ll give it 15-20 minutes

[infangthief]

Explain “set up”
If I’m not hear tomorrow someone insist upon exactly what that means. Names concepts, not general stuff

Ok, replying, don't hammer.

[infangthief]

Set-up as in, pretty much everyone that scum has left alive so far has been happy to vote for mathdude.

[infangthief]

Just work it through - if mathdude is scum, who can his partners possibly be? gkrieg could be for sure. But there must be one more.

MiX might be bussing. But I can't see anyone else who could realistically have bussed as much as they have.

If mathdude is scum, it surely can only be with gkrieg and MiX. Can you see any other possibility?

[infangthief]

But I think far more likely MiX is scum and not bussing, rather than MiX is scum and bussing.

I'm pretty dead-set on MiX.

[infangthief]

I suppose from your (or anyone else's) POV, I'm probably the most likely mathdude busser. Especially given my defence here.

So mathdude + gkrieg + me.

But it's not.

[infangthief]

I think it's MiX + joth + X.

More likely than MiX + gkrieg + mathdude.

[infangthief]

I'm off now but will be back at some point before end of day, so long as Swowl doesn't hammer here.

[MiX]

Is it really impossible for me to be town and math to be scum? I ended up not finishing my reread, so I'll default to sheeping you if you think that scenario is truly impossible, fang.

[infangthief]

Is it really impossible for me to be town and math to be scum? I ended up not finishing my reread, so I'll default to sheeping you if you think that scenario is truly impossible, fang.

I mean, not impossible, but if mathdude is scum tell me who you think has been bussing mathdude this game? Or, you know, if you are actually town you at least need to think it through even if you don't publicly announce who you think is bussing.

The other thing I would like from you MiX is to tell me why you think mathdude is scum. Maybe you said so already, but the thing I'm remembering is that you were sheeping me.

[infangthief]

EFHW, I know you've said too early to be looking for teams. And I agree with you to some extent. Looking for teams before there have been any scum flips was tying me up in knots.

But there is also the thing where people say, even day 1 "that wagon grew too fast / too easily, I don't think it is on scum".

This feels a bit like that, except that we have three days of wagons growing on mathdude, with everyone except gkrieg voting there and everyone except gkrieg and (I think) MiX putting some weight into pushing the wagon.

[MiX]

Is it really impossible for me to be town and math to be scum? I ended up not finishing my reread, so I'll default to sheeping you if you think that scenario is truly impossible, fang.

I mean, not impossible, but if mathdude is scum tell me who you think has been bussing mathdude this game? Or, you know, if you are actually town you at least need to think it through even if you don't publicly announce who you think is bussing.

The other thing I would like from you MiX is to tell me why you think mathdude is scum. Maybe you said so already, but the thing I'm remembering is that you were sheeping me.

A lot of this game only makes sense if Didds or math are scum. Otherwise, who's scum, EFHW/Swowl/Galzria? That seems unlikely, so I was trying to focus on those 2. And in my short (incomplete) reread of D1, I kept stopping at math posts that were pinging me. I think Swowl's arguments also make more sense if Didds is town and math is scum, so overall I think math is scum.

[infangthief]

Is it really impossible for me to be town and math to be scum? I ended up not finishing my reread, so I'll default to sheeping you if you think that scenario is truly impossible, fang.

I mean, not impossible, but if mathdude is scum tell me who you think has been bussing mathdude this game? Or, you know, if you are actually town you at least need to think it through even if you don't publicly announce who you think is bussing.

The other thing I would like from you MiX is to tell me why you think mathdude is scum. Maybe you said so already, but the thing I'm remembering is that you were sheeping me.

A lot of this game only makes sense if Didds or math are scum. Otherwise, who's scum, EFHW/Swowl/Galzria? That seems unlikely, so I was trying to focus on those 2. And in my short (incomplete) reread of D1, I kept stopping at math posts that were pinging me. I think Swowl's arguments also make more sense if Didds is town and math is scum, so overall I think math is scum.

Ok, thanks for explaining.

And yes, if you (MiX) are town, then you probably need to think that Didds or mathdude is scum.

As someone who doesn't know whether you are town or not, this game starts to make a lot more sense to me if you are scum.

[infangthief]

Vote: mathdude

Galzria is a terrible idea today. Even if he's scum, which he's not, his exile will tell us absolutely nothing about who his partners are. I think his disengagement is a null-tell, but if it's anything it's a town tell because Galzria tends to try pretty hard as scum.

This is very Joth sounding like MiX and it makes me nervous

Hmm, yes, I suppose so. Actually, this is joth's first post in like about 36 hours. A weird way to rejoin the thread.

Ah yes. So weird to show up slightly before deadline, express a negative opinion about the leading wagon, and vote for a competing one. What a bizarre reason to show up and make a post.

M133 FDS on a Plane Mafia is the game I was remembering, where Galzria kept promising stuff but not providing it, and was scum. So there's definitely precedent for Galzria not being tryhard as scum. I notice you weren't playing in that one.

[mathdude]

PPE a whole bunch... I had typed this out yesterday, but forgot to post it apparently. I'm working to catch up on the night posts now.

Re: strong views on scola...

Looking back, it's seeming more now like there were views on whether to exile him for not posting... but I felt at the time like there were strong views on whether his few posts were scummy or townie. I thought he was scum and if so then there were definitely people defending him.

As for the votes on me right now... I have no idea what to think. We're at lylo tomorrow if I'm exiled. Will the be enough info to solve the game? I have nothing more than minor gut feels about people, and I could see just about anyone still being scum for various reasons. It's annoying.

[mathdude]

Mostly caught up... a lot of fang and Swowl overnight, with a bunch of MiX mixed in.

Less than 2 hours to deadline. Votes sit at 4-2 me/Mix? Hammer at 5. Swowl, fang, gk, or I think Galz could hammer. But scum doesn't even need to hammer with plurality exile, if one is off-wagon. Most of the 4 votes on me seem set, and if none move off, I'm exiled unless all remaining 5 end up on the same person. So it's possible all scum are on me, but ot doesn't have to be true.

Up to this point reading, if rather move back to Didds. But unless at least 2 or 3 come online and move there, that vote does nothing. So for now, I'll

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

Math not claiming is a scumslip.

So, who wants to hammer?

[mathdude]

Also, MiX doubling down to say he's sheeping fang, but then not unvoting me is a bit odd. Although now he has self-preservation as an argument

[mathdude]

Math not claiming is a scumslip.

So, who wants to hammer?

What game are you playing? I'm an unhatched green egg. What is there to claim?

[MiX]

Math not claiming is a scumslip.

So, who wants to hammer?

What game are you playing? I'm an unhatched green egg. What is there to claim?

That? That is something to claim? Or had you said that before?

This answer looks townie, but it's too late for be to back down.

[infangthief]

Also, MiX doubling down to say he's sheeping fang, but then not unvoting me is a bit odd. Although now he has self-preservation as an argument

Math not claiming is a scumslip.

So, who wants to hammer?

What game are you playing? I'm an unhatched green egg. What is there to claim?

That? That is something to claim? Or had you said that before?

This answer looks townie, but it's too late for be to back down.

I have no expectation of MiX backing down.

I am hoping that Didds and/or EFHW might reconsider and move to MiX. At the very least I would like them to have a think through who mathdude's partners could possibly be. I've given my thoughts on that in #1100 in case that helps.

[infangthief]

So, 1 hour until deadline:

mathdude (4) : WestCoastDidds, MiX, jotheonah, EFHW
MiX (3) : gkrieg13, infangthief, mathdude
 
Not voting (2) : Galzria, Swowl
 
I probably won't be back before deadline, but don't see much more for me to do or say.

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning….

I need some coffee.

mathdude (4) : WestCoastDidds, MiX, jotheonah, EFHW
MiX (3) : gkrieg13, fang, mathdude
 
Not voting (2) : Galzria, Swowl

Is that right?

Unvote

[WestCoastDidds]

Fang, are you still here?

I have not read last night closely yet. Can you give me TL;DR?

[WestCoastDidds]

K.been more than enough time.
Hammering. Not allowing myself to go to sleep and see it flipped to Galz or Mix.
I’ll give it 15-20 minutes

This is interesting to me. Why is Swowl so sold on Galz and MiX? Neither are on my green list.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, math… can you explain the discrepancy with the explanation of day 2 and how it actually happened?

It’s http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21053.msg888477#msg888477

You said you didn’t even know who if you had voted, when you not only voted but were pivotal in the piling on and then wrote a monster wall post about me that still seems to inform your game. That doesn’t jibe with the no strong opinion, throwaway vote comment.

[WestCoastDidds]

I 100% know that I’m having a hard time fairly evaluating Joth and Math because the scum read me so strongly.

[mathdude]

Okay, math… can you explain the discrepancy with the explanation of day 2 and how it actually happened?

It’s http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21053.msg888477#msg888477

You said you didn’t even know who if you had voted, when you not only voted but were pivotal in the piling on and then wrote a monster wall post about me that still seems to inform your game. That doesn’t jibe with the no strong opinion, throwaway vote comment.

Honestly, the only reason I have is mobile posting and a very chaotic RL where I can't even remember some things in RL right now, let alone in game. I don't like that explanation, but it is what it is.

[jotheonah]

I’m here. But not particularly interested in changing my vote.

[mathdude]

I’m here. But not particularly interested in changing my vote.

Trying to protect your partner and push us to exlo?

[WestCoastDidds]

I am full-on following fang into whatever breach this is.

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

I'm a doctor and I picked fang, I'm 50% to be weak which is why I'm townreading fang.

Now hammer math.

[infangthief]

Fang, are you still here?

I have not read last night closely yet. Can you give me TL;DR?

I'll try a tl;dr. But it might turn out too long. You might do better just to read the thread.

I reread MiX and think he's at least as scummy as mathdude.

Swowl does some VCA which he then admitted to EFHW was not as useful as he hoped. I haven't followed it carefully.

I woke up this morning and posted #1100 about how mathdude can only be scum if one of his partners has been bussing, and not just weak bussing placing a vote now and again, but placing votes at pivotal moments or really pushing the wagon hard.

Swowl wants some clarifications from me and says he'll be hammering soon. I try and explain #1100 a bit in case it helps him. Not sure if it does or not, at any rate he did not hammer.

PPE 2

[jotheonah]

Hate that claim. But do I hate it enough to switch to MiX, who I have very much been townreading?

[jotheonah]

Didds is playing right into the “Didds and math are partners” narrative with that switch.

[MiX]

Hate that claim. But do I hate it enough to switch to MiX, who I have very much been townreading?

What. It completely explains my sudden interest in today and my townread on fang.

[jotheonah]

Kinda answers the “who could possibly be bussing?” Question nicely, doesn’t it?

[infangthief]

I'm a doctor and I picked fang, I'm 50% to be weak which is why I'm townreading fang.

Now hammer math.

There are of course ways that scum could know that this is a safe fakeclaim.

[jotheonah]

Hate that claim. But do I hate it enough to switch to MiX, who I have very much been townreading?

What. It completely explains my sudden interest in today and my townread on fang.

When did you hatch?

[MiX]

Kinda answers the “who could possibly be bussing?” Question nicely, doesn’t it?

If it is just Didds/math then I was right from the start, take that Swowl, etc etc.

By the way there's 15 minutes until deadline.

Hate that claim. But do I hate it enough to switch to MiX, who I have very much been townreading?

What. It completely explains my sudden interest in today and my townread on fang.

When did you hatch?

Last night, I've only picked once.

[MiX]

I'm a doctor and I picked fang, I'm 50% to be weak which is why I'm townreading fang.

Now hammer math.

There are of course ways that scum could know that this is a safe fakeclaim.

It's always a safe claim. That's the beauty of this setup.

[WestCoastDidds]

My best guess is Mix-Joth-Galz team. Swowl is complicating that for me, though.

[WestCoastDidds]

But if Swowl was scum, he’d have hammered last night.

[jotheonah]

I’m trying a bold strategy of 100% defending both my partners, apparently.

[jotheonah]

Didds, can you explain that last minute vote switch?

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, can you explain that last minute vote switch?

Fang asked me to, well either EFHW or I. So I tried to evaluate my anti-math bias which is rooted in his votes for me

[WestCoastDidds]

But in all reality, Galz is the scummiest

[MiX]

I presume if fang doesn't come back then there's not enough votes to kill math? Gkrieg, Galz and Swowl aren't here.

[jotheonah]

It would be good to get Falz out of the game since he’s not playing, but I don’t think he’d flip red.

Wait math isn’t leading?

[infangthief]

I'm a doctor and I picked fang, I'm 50% to be weak which is why I'm townreading fang.

Now hammer math.

What does 50% chance of being weak have to do with anything?

[jotheonah]

I thought Didds’ switch made a tie and math would win the tie.

[MiX]

It would be good to get Falz out of the game since he’s not playing, but I don’t think he’d flip red.

Wait math isn’t leading?

No, math's at 3 I'm at 4.

I'm a doctor and I picked fang, I'm 50% to be weak which is why I'm townreading fang.

Now hammer math.

What does 50% chance of being weak have to do with anything?

Because if I'm weak and you're scum I'd be dead?

Don't tell me I forgot what weak is.

[WestCoastDidds]

I thought Didds’ switch made a tie and math would win the tie.

mathdude (3) :, MiX, jotheonah, EFHW
MiX (4) : gkrieg13, infangthief, mathdude, WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (2) : Galzria, Swowl

[jotheonah]

That sucks. Somebody vote math. It’s so obvious what’s happening here.

[MiX]

Cmon fang save me.

[J Reggie]

Thread locked!

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 3.Final
The eggs were getting desperate. There weren't too many of them left, and they still had to find the bad eggs and remove them. One claimed to be hatched, but the others were still able to push him out of the nest.

MiX (4) : gkrieg13, infangthief, mathdude, WestCoastDidds
mathdude (3) : MiX, jotheonah, EFHW
 
Not voting (2) : Galzria, Swowl

MiX, a doctor has been exiled. Night 3 starts now and ends March 14, 2022, 10:00:00 am. Keep in mind this may take into account Daylight Savings Time depending on your time zone settings.

Votes:
infangthief -> mathdude
mathdude -> WestCoastDidds
EFHW -> Galzria
infangthief -> --
WestCoastDidds -> mathdude
infangthief -> Galzria
MiX -> mathdude
gkrieg13 -> MiX
mathdude -> Galzria
jotheonah -> mathdude
EFHW -> mathdude
infangthief -> MiX
mathdude -> MiX
WestCoastDidds -> --
WestCoastDidds -> MiX

[J Reggie]

Jack Rudd has replaced Galzria.

[J Reggie]

It was crunch time for the green eggs. Well, hopefully not literally. They had to find the red eggs today, or they would soon be outnumbered. To make matters worse, jotheonah, the Hatcher had fallen out of the nest in the night. No longer would he use his beak to crack the other eggs' shells; they would have to do it themselves.

Not voting (8) : EFHW, gkrieg13, infangthief, Jack Rudd, mathdude, Swowl, WestCoastDidds

Day 4 starts now and ends March 21, 2022, 10:00:00 am your time.

Thread unlocked!

[infangthief]

Hi Jack, welcome.

Probably a huge amount to read through, unless you've been reading along already?

[infangthief]

End of day yesterday was awful. Sorry guys. But I think some useful stuff did come out of it. I won't share what I think yet, because you're probably sick of me saying what I think after getting the end of day so wrong.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ugh.

I spent a big chunk of Saturday being frustrated with myself and feeling bad that I have played so badly and essentially wasted everyone’s time by being either a dupe or a dummy, or both.  I apologize to everyone. I’m really sorry that I can’t seem to get it freaking right and just keep second guessing myself.

Jack, I know you’ve just joined us. Will you have a chance to read the game and give us your thoughts?

I think we need to no exile today, yeah? Because if we miss we lose?

[Jack Rudd]

I have been reading along already, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

[infangthief]

Not voting (8) : EFHW, gkrieg13, infangthief, Jack Rudd, mathdude, Swowl, WestCoastDidds

Should that be 7?

[Jack Rudd]

So I just checked through to see who's been on the winning wagon each time, to see if that affects anything. That would be mathdude, gkrieg13 and WestCoastDidds. Could be coincidence, could be a red team.

[J Reggie]

Not voting (8) : EFHW, gkrieg13, infangthief, Jack Rudd, mathdude, Swowl, WestCoastDidds

Should that be 7?

No.

[J Reggie]

To clarify, there are 7 alive, and it takes 4 to exile.

[WestCoastDidds]

An, then never mind…. That is different than 8. Have to exile!

[gkrieg13]

That means we have an IC double voter right?

[EFHW]

End of day yesterday was awful. Sorry guys. But I think some useful stuff did come out of it. I won't share what I think yet, because you're probably sick of me saying what I think after getting the end of day so wrong.

I'm wondering how to understand mathdude exiles going wrong at the last minute. When someone is this hard to exile, it often means they are scum.

[EFHW]

That means we have an IC double voter right?

How do you figure that?

[mathdude]

End of day yesterday was awful. Sorry guys. But I think some useful stuff did come out of it. I won't share what I think yet, because you're probably sick of me saying what I think after getting the end of day so wrong.

I'm wondering how to understand mathdude exiles going wrong at the last minute. When someone is this hard to exile, it often means they are scum.

This is what bothers me. That is often the case. And it's not the case here. But I'm a very easy misexile for scum to push today.

That means we have an IC double voter right?

How do you figure that?

Could it be a Stump? I don't think I've ever played with that role before, so not sure how it would show up.

[WestCoastDidds]

To clarify, there are 7 alive, and it takes 4 to exile.

It was crunch time for the green eggs. Well, hopefully not literally. They had to find the red eggs today, or they would soon be outnumbered. To make matters worse, jotheonah, the Hatcher had fallen out of the nest in the night. No longer would he use his beak to crack the other eggs' shells; they would have to do it themselves.

Not voting (8) : EFHW, gkrieg13, infangthief, Jack Rudd, mathdude, Swowl, WestCoastDidds

Day 4 starts now and ends March 21, 2022, 10:00:00 am your time.

Thread unlocked!

I took this to mean that there are 7 alive (as per the correction). Is that not accurate?

[infangthief]

Ok. So I'm the double-voter, hatched last night.

Obviously I should actually place a vote at some point before the day ends so no-one can counter-claim on a later day. (Today is the only day I'll be able to prove it.)

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok. So I'm the double-voter, hatched last night.

Obviously I should actually place a vote at some point before the day ends so no-one can counter-claim on a later day. (Today is the only day I'll be able to prove it.)

Oh! That’s awesome!

[Swowl]

Sorry I fell asleep yall. I came back to hammer before going to bed and saw fangs message to not hammer so I gave it some time and then knocked out.

 

[Swowl]

That being said, fang being double voter is baller because it is essentially impossible for it to be a fake claim.
So we have an IC we can read back on, and also they have 2 votes. thats neat.

[Swowl]

Fang had some good points post my fall asleep time I need to go and look into. Will be back.

[Swowl]

I suppose from your (or anyone else's) POV, I'm probably the most likely mathdude busser. Especially given my defence here.

So mathdude + gkrieg + me.

But it's not.

So this is where I was at (in theory) yesterday. With a huge huuuuuuge gap between you and Math/GK... but to your point.. from my PoV it kind of had to be you or Galz as the third.

I think it's MiX + joth + X.

More likely than MiX + gkrieg + mathdude.

It is a super good thing that you are essentially confirmed IC rn... bc in between these two posts and you flipping the wagon to MiX... I don't think there would be anything that would of got me to not believe it was GK!Math!Fang. Luckily we are not in that spot. I think. Someone call me out on the IC bit if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure without a counter fang is IC here.

Is it really impossible for me to be town and math to be scum? I ended up not finishing my reread, so I'll default to sheeping you if you think that scenario is truly impossible, fang.

I mean, not impossible, but if mathdude is scum tell me who you think has been bussing mathdude this game? Or, you know, if you are actually town you at least need to think it through even if you don't publicly announce who you think is bussing.

EFHW and Galz. Or imo, one of EFHW/Galz + GK/WCD. I get you don't like the WCD point, but it is possible.


Like I get your points, but I really wish I stuck to my guns yesterday and continued into Math. The counter to your bussing point is that they have consistently been run up and never exiled. And the swing wagons have always been on town.

[Swowl]

My best guess is Mix-Joth-Galz team. Swowl is complicating that for me, though.

I am not following this. Could you lay it out for me please?

[Swowl]

I'm a doctor and I picked fang, I'm 50% to be weak which is why I'm townreading fang.

Now hammer math.

There are of course ways that scum could know that this is a safe fakeclaim.

Slow kid in the class today I guess... I kind of see one way... though it seems unlikely. Multiple ways I am not seeing.

Which leads me to my question (not directed at fang, but to the others that ended up on MiX).... This claim MiX made makes total damn sense. What was the justification for not getting off of mix after this claim?

[Swowl]

would love to hear from math and didds regarding who they think could be skum. preferably in that order.

[infangthief]

Thank you Swowl, good thoughts.

[WestCoastDidds]

My best guess is Mix-Joth-Galz team. Swowl is complicating that for me, though.

I am not following this. Could you lay it out for me please?

When you showed up, and didn’t hammer after saying you would, along with defending Galz and MiX, it made me think that you were scum buddies with them. So, you were complicating my scum team because it started feeling like you were on it. You and Galz had been is lockstep a couple of different times this game that made me itchy.

I should have paid more attention to time stamps and that you likely went to sleep, but reading it all the next morning, it read as a flurry of activity, a defense of Galz and MiX and then no vote.

[WestCoastDidds]

would love to hear from math and didds regarding who they think could be skum. preferably in that order.

Okay, I’ll wait for math.

[mathdude]

Honestly, I have no idea where we're at. I have no idea how to convince people I'm not scum. But I'm not, and the game ends today if we can't sort this out.

Fang is the only verifiable role so far. It seems that there are 8 votes, but with 7 players we only need 4 to exile. Is there any other way this works other than a double-voter? And absent a counter-claim, I agree he's our best bet.

Beyond that, I think anyone could still be scum or town. And I'm wary of anyone who has been pushing "based on votes, this person is obviously protecting so-and-so", as that's something scum can definitely set up nightly. Based on votes is a good place to look, but more helpful after a red flip.

But I have no idea about EFHW, gkrieg13, Jack Rudd (Galz), Swowl, or WestCoastDidds. And I'm away for a few days for March Break and on mobile only for now. So I'll try to keep up as best I can.

PPE 2

[infangthief]

Ok, and Didds?

[WestCoastDidds]

would love to hear from math and didds regarding who they think could be skum. preferably in that order.

Okay, I’ll wait for math.

I’m not sure math helped you at all, Swowl.

My town core is EFHW, Fang, me, and (probably) Swowl. So my scumsters are gkrieg, math, and glazack.  Obviously I was voting for math all day yesterday until I wasn’t (dammit!) so that is not a surprise, and I’ve been wary of the strategic Galz hyperlurk. Jack hasn’t changed my mind about that. Gkrieg is my toss up, as I can isolate anything scummy, but the poe says it’s probably him.

[Jack Rudd]

I wish I could be of more help to anyone here, but I appear to have taken over a position that has done nothing and learned no hidden information, so I have to do things based purely on my ability to read other players. Which is, let's face it, not exactly world-class.

[WestCoastDidds]

We appreciate you being here, Jack!

[gkrieg13]

I have a deadline on Thursday, then a friend coming into town Friday. I will not be around too much.

Would go for Didds or Jack at this point. I'm glad fang is our IC.

[mathdude]

I have a deadline on Thursday, then a friend coming into town Friday. I will not be around too much.

Would go for Didds or Jack at this point. I'm glad fang is our IC.

Ok, with many people still putting me on top of their scum list, gkrieg why are you still not wanting to vote for me? Is there anything more than a D1 or D2 gut feel? Or did you just pick a read and stick with it all game for consistency?

I'm ready to vote gkrieg unless he has a valid reason to town-read me against the majority all game.

[EFHW]

I have a deadline on Thursday, then a friend coming into town Friday. I will not be around too much.

Would go for Didds or Jack at this point. I'm glad fang is our IC.

Ok, with many people still putting me on top of their scum list, gkrieg why are you still not wanting to vote for me? Is there anything more than a D1 or D2 gut feel? Or did you just pick a read and stick with it all game for consistency?

I'm ready to vote gkrieg unless he has a valid reason to town-read me against the majority all game.

Not against the majority, or you would have been exiled. But this is a great question. I'm eager to hear the answer.

[infangthief]

I wish I could be of more help to anyone here, but I appear to have taken over a position that has done nothing and learned no hidden information, so I have to do things based purely on my ability to read other players. Which is, let's face it, not exactly world-class.

Where would you like to have been voting each end-of-day so far?
Would you have changed any of the exiles we've had so far?

[infangthief]

Also, I think most of us probably don't have any hidden information either - all we've got really is reads. The advantage we've had over you is we've been able to ask questions and do stuff to see what reactions it gets. So feel free to ask away and see what you can get out of people, especially based on anything they've said.

Sorry if this is all obvious, I don't know how much you've played mafia here. Actually that would be a good thing to know - how much have you played mafia, and how much with the people in this game? I know I've not been in a game with you before.

[infangthief]

Oh, and another thing it would be good to know, was Galzria scum?

[mathdude]

Purely from a setup and possible exlo perspective, is it worth a massclaim? I'm thinking no, but wondering what other thoughts are. Don't give away anything useful to scum in stating your opinion.

[Swowl]

Honestly, I have no idea where we're at. I have no idea how to convince people I'm not scum. But I'm not, and the game ends today if we can't sort this out.

Fang is the only verifiable role so far. It seems that there are 8 votes, but with 7 players we only need 4 to exile. Is there any other way this works other than a double-voter? And absent a counter-claim, I agree he's our best bet.

Beyond that, I think anyone could still be scum or town. And I'm wary of anyone who has been pushing "based on votes, this person is obviously protecting so-and-so", as that's something scum can definitely set up nightly. Based on votes is a good place to look, but more helpful after a red flip.

But I have no idea about EFHW, gkrieg13, Jack Rudd (Galz), Swowl, or WestCoastDidds. And I'm away for a few days for March Break and on mobile only for now. So I'll try to keep up as best I can.

PPE 2

So you are concerned we are gonna lose via your misEX, and it is frustrating because you cannot convince us you are town... and your sole read is "the IC is town"...

[Jack Rudd]

This is something like my fourth Mafia game, I think. BSG 1&2, where I was in from the start, and some other game where I subbed in and was exiled that turn. This is the first time I've been town.

[EFHW]

would love to hear from math and didds regarding who they think could be skum. preferably in that order.

So were the answers helpful?

[Swowl]

would love to hear from math and didds regarding who they think could be skum. preferably in that order.

So were the answers helpful?

I mean literally?

Math - no, there was no answer. well there "literally was"... but no information really.

WCD - Yeah it helped. I am writing up a VCA that will explain thoughts further... but essentially, she skum reads where it makes sense to skum read and town reads where it makes sense to town read.
There is the weird EFHW read as town core, but I like agree with that part personally and it checks out if the skum reads are true, so yeah. Helpful. will follow up shortly.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.4
2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (3) : faust, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
Not voting (1) : scolapasta


mathdude -> Dylan32
jotheonah -> mathdude
gkrieg13 -> Dylan32
WestCoastDidds -> scolapasta
Galzria -> mathdude
MiX -> 2.71828.....
jotheonah -> 2.71828.....
infangthief -> 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds -> Dylan32


Vote Count 1.Final
Dylan32 (5) : faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13, WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... (4) : Dylan32, MiX, jotheonah, infangthief
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

So this is the end of D1.
We have the following moves take place (removing known town moves):

Math moves from Town!MiX to Town!Dylan
GK moves from Town!MiX to Town!Dylan
WCD moves from Town!Dylan to Town!Pasta, and then back to Town!Dylan
Galz/JackRudd moves from Town!E to Math

At that point, this is what it looks like:
mathdude (5) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief, jotheonah, Galzria
Dylan32 (5) : faust, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828....., mathdude, gkrieg13
2.71828..... (1) : Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
Not voting (1) : scolapasta

1. Something to take away from this that we could not prior to Joth and Fang being colored in, is that Galz chose to check in and vote for Math here, tying Math for the leading wagon. On Day 1... if he is skum... and even IF both his team mates are within wcd/math/gk.. I find that move very unlikely now. becausseeee...

2. Becauseeeee... we can now color in people and know that there are 4 total moves left in the day. The next 3 to happen are all Town players moving to Town E!. So, whereas prior I was viewing this differently (more vaugely to be precise), now we know to a certainty he "got no help" if he were to be skum here. So I have to be honest... Really really really tossing the Galz!Math team out the window here. I am being a little reads based here, just because I mean I can see Galz playing this bus I guess... but not in a world where he then just fucks off for the next 2 weeks.

3. When WCD moved, she did inherently save Math. The fact that they are both not flipped makes my head hurt for that situation.


Summary:
1. I don't think it can be Math and Galz.
2. I do think it is possible that it could be WCD and Math... but that would inherently make EFHW the last skum... which I am not a super fan of at this point... or all un colored players on the day 1 wagon are skum.... which would also be weird.
3. And to be fair... it would be possible for it to be GK/WCD/Galz.

All of the Summary is also based of of my individual reads.

Read at your own risk - will compile the other days and see where things sit tonight/tomorrow.

[infangthief]

I'm glad fang is our IC.

Why?

[Jack Rudd]

Good work there, Swowl. I'll try to come up with my own conclusions when all of those are up.

[infangthief]

Good work there, Swowl. I'll try to come up with my own conclusions when all of those are up.

I don't think there's any need to wait for Swowl to do all the hard work.

Please do give us your thoughts on the rest of the thread. Not just wagon analysis.

[Jack Rudd]

I've not got a lot. I don't really know how to make a read in this game.

Mathdude's answer to the last question did look a bit suspicious, though whether that's because he's scum, because he's a relatively new player, or because all his reads have turned out wrong and he doesn't know what to do, I don't know.

[Jack Rudd]

Looks like my ability to close tags is nearly as good as my ability to read people.

[infangthief]

I've not got a lot. I don't really know how to make a read in this game.

Mathdude's answer to the last question did look a bit suspicious, though whether that's because he's scum, because he's a relatively new player, or because all his reads have turned out wrong and he doesn't know what to do, I don't know.

Have all his reads turned out wrong?

[infangthief]

This is something like my fourth Mafia game, I think. BSG 1&2, where I was in from the start, and some other game where I subbed in and was exiled that turn. This is the first time I've been town.

Wow, scum 3 out of 3, that's harsh. I thought I had it bad being scum 2 out of 4 prior to this game.

I've just found the other game where you subbed in, Memento Mafia, and that was a sub for Galzria again. I'll see if I can find time to have a look through those three games.

For this game, I guess you kind of knew that it was Galzria you'd be subbing in for. Did you think you were subbing in to a town or scum role?

[EFHW]

@Swowl, how would a math/Didds team mke me the third scum?

Unrelated,  there is a scum narrative for Galz hanging out on math. It spreads out the scum vote and keeps options open. Agree that a Galz/math team seems almost impossible.

[Jack Rudd]

Did you think you were subbing in to a town or scum role?

Town. I'd have expected a scum role to be a bit more active than Galzria actually was.

[Jack Rudd]

I've not got a lot. I don't really know how to make a read in this game.

Mathdude's answer to the last question did look a bit suspicious, though whether that's because he's scum, because he's a relatively new player, or because all his reads have turned out wrong and he doesn't know what to do, I don't know.

Have all his reads turned out wrong?

Well, all his final votes have been for someone who turned out to be Town. Which could be bad luck, or it could be scum play.

[infangthief]

Did you think you were subbing in to a town or scum role?

Town. I'd have expected a scum role to be a bit more active than Galzria actually was.

That's interesting, because I have just now been having a read of Memento Mafia.

[Jack Rudd]

Did you think you were subbing in to a town or scum role?

Town. I'd have expected a scum role to be a bit more active than Galzria actually was.

That's interesting, because I have just now been having a read of Memento Mafia.

Hah, yes, I remember that now. Everyone got very cross with Galzria about that.

[infangthief]

But in all reality, Galz is the scummiest

Didds, when and why did you come to this conclusion?

[WestCoastDidds]

But in all reality, Galz is the scummiest

Didds, when and why did you come to this conclusion?

It was towards the end of the Day, and i came to the conclusion because by that point I thought it was increasingly scummy to say that a big wall post is coming, hold tight and then no-show. It felt calculated to me, especially with the plurality exile. He could say he was coming, not answer questions, etc. and flatten the discussion and then not vote, or park on an empty wagon, because he didn’t have to vote to get town exiled.

[gkrieg13]

I have a deadline on Thursday, then a friend coming into town Friday. I will not be around too much.

Would go for Didds or Jack at this point. I'm glad fang is our IC.

Ok, with many people still putting me on top of their scum list, gkrieg why are you still not wanting to vote for me? Is there anything more than a D1 or D2 gut feel? Or did you just pick a read and stick with it all game for consistency?

I'm ready to vote gkrieg unless he has a valid reason to town-read me against the majority all game.

What I have seen you do as scum, you aren’t doing here. As I said earlier, you are scum hunting. You are also not making many posts that don’t accomplish anything but attempt to appear townie. Like reminding people of deadlines or asking people to give opinions but not giving your own. I’m on my phone so can’t pull examples of all this right now.

[gkrieg13]

I'm glad fang is our IC.

Why?

I had been mostly town reading you, but you were on my list of people I need to read again, and now I don’t have to do that. You have also been one of the most active players, and I think you’ve been asking good questions.

[mathdude]

Honestly, I have no idea where we're at. I have no idea how to convince people I'm not scum. But I'm not, and the game ends today if we can't sort this out.

Fang is the only verifiable role so far. It seems that there are 8 votes, but with 7 players we only need 4 to exile. Is there any other way this works other than a double-voter? And absent a counter-claim, I agree he's our best bet.

Beyond that, I think anyone could still be scum or town. And I'm wary of anyone who has been pushing "based on votes, this person is obviously protecting so-and-so", as that's something scum can definitely set up nightly. Based on votes is a good place to look, but more helpful after a red flip.

But I have no idea about EFHW, gkrieg13, Jack Rudd (Galz), Swowl, or WestCoastDidds. And I'm away for a few days for March Break and on mobile only for now. So I'll try to keep up as best I can.

PPE 2

So you are concerned we are gonna lose via your misEX, and it is frustrating because you cannot convince us you are town... and your sole read is "the IC is town"...

Yup, you've got it. If me giving reads is what it would take to convince you (all) I'm town, then game's over. I would find it much easier to give reads if I were scum, especially now near the end. As scum, I could easily give a town read, or even bus a scum read for the long game (look at my scum games... I have no problem bussing when needed).

[mathdude]

I've not got a lot. I don't really know how to make a read in this game.

Mathdude's answer to the last question did look a bit suspicious, though whether that's because he's scum, because he's a relatively new player, or because all his reads have turned out wrong and he doesn't know what to do, I don't know.

It's not that all my reads have necessarily turned out wrong. Jury is still out on MiX and Didds from my earlier reads, and gkrieg now. But yes I believe I've ended up on town at EoD each time and that's frustrating.

[mathdude]

I have a deadline on Thursday, then a friend coming into town Friday. I will not be around too much.

Would go for Didds or Jack at this point. I'm glad fang is our IC.

Ok, with many people still putting me on top of their scum list, gkrieg why are you still not wanting to vote for me? Is there anything more than a D1 or D2 gut feel? Or did you just pick a read and stick with it all game for consistency?

I'm ready to vote gkrieg unless he has a valid reason to town-read me against the majority all game.

What I have seen you do as scum, you aren’t doing here. As I said earlier, you are scum hunting. You are also not making many posts that don’t accomplish anything but attempt to appear townie. Like reminding people of deadlines or asking people to give opinions but not giving your own. I’m on my phone so can’t pull examples of all this right now.

I'm wondering what others think of this. I believe others have said the opposite... that I'm not scum hunting, and that I have made useless posts that don't accomplish anything. It sounds to me like you're sticking to a D1 read as scum to not draw attention ro yourself. And you're hoping I'll keep following you, since I have stated a few times that based on confirmation bias, I was town-reading you.

[infangthief]

I have a deadline on Thursday, then a friend coming into town Friday. I will not be around too much.

Would go for Didds or Jack at this point. I'm glad fang is our IC.

Ok, with many people still putting me on top of their scum list, gkrieg why are you still not wanting to vote for me? Is there anything more than a D1 or D2 gut feel? Or did you just pick a read and stick with it all game for consistency?

I'm ready to vote gkrieg unless he has a valid reason to town-read me against the majority all game.

What I have seen you do as scum, you aren’t doing here. As I said earlier, you are scum hunting. You are also not making many posts that don’t accomplish anything but attempt to appear townie. Like reminding people of deadlines or asking people to give opinions but not giving your own. I’m on my phone so can’t pull examples of all this right now.

I'm wondering what others think of this. I believe others have said the opposite... that I'm not scum hunting, and that I have made useless posts that don't accomplish anything. It sounds to me like you're sticking to a D1 read as scum to not draw attention ro yourself. And you're hoping I'll keep following you, since I have stated a few times that based on confirmation bias, I was town-reading you.

Before seeing what others think of this, I'm wondering what you think of this. Have you been scum hunting? Have you been making useless posts that don't accomplish anything?

[infangthief]

But in all reality, Galz is the scummiest

Didds, when and why did you come to this conclusion?

It was towards the end of the Day, and i came to the conclusion because by that point I thought it was increasingly scummy to say that a big wall post is coming, hold tight and then no-show. It felt calculated to me, especially with the plurality exile. He could say he was coming, not answer questions, etc. and flatten the discussion and then not vote, or park on an empty wagon, because he didn’t have to vote to get town exiled.

Can you say more precisely when towards the end of the day?

Also, has your view changed since then or is Galzria/Jack Rudd still the scummiest?

[WestCoastDidds]

But in all reality, Galz is the scummiest

Didds, when and why did you come to this conclusion?

It was towards the end of the Day, and i came to the conclusion because by that point I thought it was increasingly scummy to say that a big wall post is coming, hold tight and then no-show. It felt calculated to me, especially with the plurality exile. He could say he was coming, not answer questions, etc. and flatten the discussion and then not vote, or park on an empty wagon, because he didn’t have to vote to get town exiled.

Can you say more precisely when towards the end of the day?

Also, has your view changed since then or is Galzria/Jack Rudd still the scummiest?

Uhm... my thought accumulate instead of being precise moments. So, I was thinking about it when I went to bed (when is about when he and swowl usually post since they are California bois) I was frustrated with Galz, and frustrated that folks were waiting for him, and then when I woke up in the morning I was kind of in a dash to catch up. Fang asked me to vote for MiX and he seemed to be more involved in his reading, and then when Joth asked why I switched I said that I was following fang, but at that point I would really rather have voted for Glaz but didn't think there was time to make that happen.  So sometime in the last hour of the day, after thinking about it during the evening.

Jack hasn't done anything scummy, and I think it is super hard when there is a replacement because he doesn't have to do much. If Glaz were still in the game, then yes... still the scummiest.

I have been playing around with the combos if I assume that you (fang) and EFHW are town along with me.

Possible teams:

gkrieg, Galz/ack, mathdude
Glaz/ack, Swowl, mathdude
gkrieg, Swowl, mathdude
gkrieg, Galz/ack, Swowl

I am leaning the most towny on EFHW, so I left her out. My next most town is swowl, so his combos are at the bottom.  There seems to be some degree of confusion about Galz/math and if they could be buddies...I am at work so I haven't had time to really read or think about this but if we take it on face value, then gkrieg is the best choice from my view.

[EFHW]

Honestly, I have no idea where we're at. I have no idea how to convince people I'm not scum. But I'm not, and the game ends today if we can't sort this out.

Fang is the only verifiable role so far. It seems that there are 8 votes, but with 7 players we only need 4 to exile. Is there any other way this works other than a double-voter? And absent a counter-claim, I agree he's our best bet.

Beyond that, I think anyone could still be scum or town. And I'm wary of anyone who has been pushing "based on votes, this person is obviously protecting so-and-so", as that's something scum can definitely set up nightly. Based on votes is a good place to look, but more helpful after a red flip.

But I have no idea about EFHW, gkrieg13, Jack Rudd (Galz), Swowl, or WestCoastDidds. And I'm away for a few days for March Break and on mobile only for now. So I'll try to keep up as best I can.

PPE 2

So you are concerned we are gonna lose via your misEX, and it is frustrating because you cannot convince us you are town... and your sole read is "the IC is town"...

Yup, you've got it. If me giving reads is what it would take to convince you (all) I'm town, then game's over. I would find it much easier to give reads if I were scum, especially now near the end. As scum, I could easily give a town read, or even bus a scum read for the long game (look at my scum games... I have no problem bussing when needed).

So you are saying you are incapable of playing a town game and therefore can't be scum?

[mathdude]

I have a deadline on Thursday, then a friend coming into town Friday. I will not be around too much.

Would go for Didds or Jack at this point. I'm glad fang is our IC.

Ok, with many people still putting me on top of their scum list, gkrieg why are you still not wanting to vote for me? Is there anything more than a D1 or D2 gut feel? Or did you just pick a read and stick with it all game for consistency?

I'm ready to vote gkrieg unless he has a valid reason to town-read me against the majority all game.

What I have seen you do as scum, you aren’t doing here. As I said earlier, you are scum hunting. You are also not making many posts that don’t accomplish anything but attempt to appear townie. Like reminding people of deadlines or asking people to give opinions but not giving your own. I’m on my phone so can’t pull examples of all this right now.

I'm wondering what others think of this. I believe others have said the opposite... that I'm not scum hunting, and that I have made useless posts that don't accomplish anything. It sounds to me like you're sticking to a D1 read as scum to not draw attention ro yourself. And you're hoping I'll keep following you, since I have stated a few times that based on confirmation bias, I was town-reading you.

Before seeing what others think of this, I'm wondering what you think of this. Have you been scum hunting? Have you been making useless posts that don't accomplish anything?

I have tried, earlier in the game. But as has been said, I end up on the wrong wagon each day. I've had no decent reads recently, so I feel like I have very little to add. And the last couple days I've been too busy to look in any more detail. We're heading home now, so tomorrow I should be able to look back at some of these vote count posts that have come out.

[mathdude]

So you are saying you are incapable of playing a town game and therefore can't be scum?

Relating to how this game is going and what seems to be expected of me to "prove I'm town", yes that's what I'm saying. Again, I'll try to look at things more tomorrow.

[EFHW]

gkrieg, please look at math again carefully. Helplessness here feels like a scum strategy to me.

[infangthief]

So far today I have been trying to avoid saying too much of what I think. But it's probably about time I said where I stand on stuff. I'll do that some time tomorrow.

[Swowl]

Possible teams:

gkrieg, Galz/ack, mathdude
Glaz/ack, Swowl, mathdude
gkrieg, Swowl, mathdude
gkrieg, Galz/ack, Swowl

You believe it is possible that Math and I are skum together?

[Swowl]

also how do you come to GK over Math as your top pick?

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.1
WestCoastDidds (3) : Galzria, jotheonah, mathdude
mathdude (1) : infangthief
scolapasta (1) : gkrieg13
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
Not voting (5) : EFHW, MiX, scolapasta, Swowl, WestCoastDidds

- Too early in the day, need a red flip to really dig into this.


Vote Count 2.2
mathdude (3) : infangthief, EFHW, Galzria
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, mathdude
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
jotheonah (1) : WestCoastDidds
Not voting (2) : scolapasta, Swowl

- Same as 2.1 notes.


Vote Count 2.3
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Galzria, Swowl
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, infangthief
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....

Here is a fun one.
- Math wagon. I am sitting with 2 unknowns on Math. One of them (galz) I do not think can possibly be skum if math is skum, and the other is my top TR.
- Joth wagon. Surprise, minimum of 1 skum there.
- and then there is floaty GK... which if they are skum makes kind of perfect sense for a WCD/Math/GK team in this snap shot.


Vote Count 2.4
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, mathdude, EFHW
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief

- Skipping to 2.5 for this one.


Vote Count 2.5
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, EFHW, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2) : 2.71828....., scolapasta
scolapasta (2) : MiX, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief

Only change between 2.4 and 2.5 is Math switching from Joth to Pasta.
Here is the rest of switches between 2.5 and final VC:

scolapasta -> WestCoastDidds
2.71828..... -> WestCoastDidds
jotheonah -> WestCoastDidds
EFHW -> scolapasta
WestCoastDidds -> scolapasta
gkrieg13 -> scolapasta

Vote Count 2.Final
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl

So that is
1. Math switching town to town
2. 3 town players switching to WCD
3. followed by  3 unknown players all switching to pasta (all of whom where previously on Town!Joth).

That leaves with that ridiculous End of Day 2 wagon where everyone is green on Didds. This gives me (well and skum... and Galz/Jack) a unique pov.... we are all absolutely positive that there cannot be less than 2 skum on pasta here.

I need to parse all of that with my Day 1 VCA, but go ahead and have at it from your own povs for now.
I seem to be the only one with time so I will do Day 3 next (not complaining, I actually enjoy doing VCA).

[infangthief]

@Jack Rudd, please, what are your thoughts?

I think you said you were reading along already before you subbed in. Surely you had some feelings at the time about whether we were going for the right exiles or not? It would be useful if you could share them.

Or are you having to not share them because suddenly you have discovered that you are scum and your reads would incriminate your scum buddies?

I'd say that so far your involvement matches Memento Mafia when you subbed in as scum.

[Jack Rudd]

I was reading along with interest, but not with any clue as to who the scum actually were.

For what it's worth, my thoughts from reading the wagon analysis suggest this order of scumminess, from most to least:

Mathdude
WCD
Gkrieg
EFHW
Swowl
Infangthief

[infangthief]

I am leaning the most towny on EFHW, so I left her out. My next most town is swowl, so his combos are at the bottom.  There seems to be some degree of confusion about Galz/math and if they could be buddies...I am at work so I haven't had time to really read or think about this but if we take it on face value, then gkrieg is the best choice from my view.

We're not exiling gkrieg today, sorry. Do you think it should be mathdude or Jack Rudd (Galzria)?

[WestCoastDidds]

Possible teams:

gkrieg, Galz/ack, mathdude
Glaz/ack, Swowl, mathdude
gkrieg, Swowl, mathdude
gkrieg, Galz/ack, Swowl

You believe it is possible that Math and I are skum together?

I haven’t had time/space to work through the groupings. All I’ve done is make them, so far. It’s spring break so I’m not as free as usual (oddly enough)

[WestCoastDidds]

also how do you come to GK over Math as your top pick?

He’s not as in dispute as the math/Galz pairing— again that is only from following along. I haven’t thought through the tension there yet

[infangthief]

also how do you come to GK over Math as your top pick?

He’s not as in dispute as the math/Galz pairing— again that is only from following along. I haven’t thought through the tension there yet

Ok, I get that you're quite keen to exile gkrieg. But if not him then who? mathdude? Jack Rudd?

[gkrieg13]

I am sorry that I haven't been available. I have a big deadline tonight, then a friend comes into town tomorrow - Tuesday.

I will try to reread math when I have some time. It would likely be over the weekend .

[gkrieg13]

Oh, deadline is Sunday? I may try to get in a tornado reread of him sooner then.

[mathdude]

I'm calling the team now as WCD, Galz/Jack, and likely Swowl... and that's my order of confidence.  I'm going back now to look for more info.  I'm almost confident about WCD, based on VCA that's been posted so far, and the fact that after Swowl's most recent post leaves him tunneling me instead of WCD is why Swowl is my predicted #3 right now.

[mathdude]

Unless someone sees something I don't, I believe it's me or WCD today.  And since it was the distinction between votes for me and votes for WCD (while reading Swowl's posts) that stood out, I'm going to highlight them here (plus the full vote counts for 2.Final and 3.Final).  This is what I based my called scum team on.

Day 1:

Vote Count 1.1 and 1.2:
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX

Vote Count 1.3:
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX

Vote Count 1.4:
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX

Vote Count 1.5:
mathdude (4) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief, jotheonah
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX

Vote Count 1.Final:
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, Galzria

D1 Thoughts:
Not much here.  EFHW and Swowl camping on me for the second half of the day.  Galz joining for the end.

Day 2:

Vote Count 2.1:
WestCoastDidds (3) : Galzria, jotheonah, mathdude
mathdude (1) : infangthief

Vote Count 2.2:
mathdude (3) : infangthief, EFHW, Galzria
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, mathdude

Vote Count 2.3:
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Galzria, Swowl
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, infangthief

Vote Count 2.4 and 2.5:
mathdude (3) : Galzria, Swowl, jotheonah
WestCoastDidds (1) : infangthief

Vote Count 2.Final:
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl

D2 Thoughts:
Galz and Swowl camping on me through the second half of the day this time.  But the big thing here... Town clearly wanted Didds voted out, but Scum didn't.  Are there multiple scum on pasta?  Or did they see enough town votes there that 1 or even 2 of them could stay camped on me?  (I'll address this again in a follow-up post, directed to Swowl).

Day 3:

Vote Count 3.1:
WestCoastDidds (1) : mathdude
mathdude (1) : WestCoastDidds

Vote Count 3.2:
mathdude (4) : WestCoastDidds, MiX, jotheonah, EFHW

Vote Count 3.Final:
MiX (4) : gkrieg13, infangthief, mathdude, WestCoastDidds
mathdude (3) : MiX, jotheonah, EFHW
Not voting (2) : Galzria, Swowl

D3 Thoughts:
From my POV, Scum obviously didn't care who of me or MiX got voted out, as votes consolidated there toward EOD.  So whether scum didn't show up, or was around and didn't care to do much doesn't really matter.  They were happy with either outcome.  And Didds, potentially the only active one toward EOD, was able to do whatever looked most townie.  Making sure a claimed Doctor died because "sheeping fang" is very suspicious.  Maybe it's Didds and EFHW as 2 of the scum, and Didds didn't want the 2 of them both on my wagon if I were to die... I know EFHW isn't on my called scum-team, but Didds is the one I'm most sure about.  We get rid of her today, and we can hopefully start sorting out the other 2 tomorrow.

[mathdude]

Vote Count 2.3
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Galzria, Swowl
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, infangthief
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....

Here is a fun one.
- Math wagon. I am sitting with 2 unknowns on Math. One of them (galz) I do not think can possibly be skum if math is skum, and the other is my top TR.
- Joth wagon. Surprise, minimum of 1 skum there.
- and then there is floaty GK... which if they are skum makes kind of perfect sense for a WCD/Math/GK team in this snap shot.

(snip of 2.4 and 2.5, for brevity)

Vote Count 2.Final
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl

So that is
1. Math switching town to town
2. 3 town players switching to WCD
3. followed by  3 unknown players all switching to pasta (all of whom where previously on Town!Joth).

That leaves with that ridiculous End of Day 2 wagon where everyone is green on Didds. This gives me (well and skum... and Galz/Jack) a unique pov.... we are all absolutely positive that there cannot be less than 2 skum on pasta here.

Re: your comments on 2.3:
When you call EHFW your top townread, I assume you're not accounting for fang.

Then for your final thoughts:
When you see 3 town switching to WCD, and an EOD wagon of all 4 votes on her being town... does that not raise any flags?  And you've posted your (and Galz/Jack's) POV that there are then 2 scum on pasta... but from the rest of us, it is still somewhat possible that both you and Galz/Jack are scum, and there may only be 1 scum on pasta.  However, if that scum is Didds, I find it unlikely that both her partners would just camp out on me... though it was a somewhat late wagon, IIRC.  This does make it feel to me like there are probably 2 scum on pasta (Didds and either EFHW or gkrieg, I guess), plus one of Swowl or Galz/Jack.

So Swowl, what are your thoughts on Galz/Jack?  Could they be scum?  Are they scum with you?  Are you scum?  What do you think of the Didds wagon EOD2 and does this make Didds more likely scum?  Why didn't you comment much on it, other than to point out that there's multiple scum on pasta's wagon (from your POV)?

[WestCoastDidds]

also how do you come to GK over Math as your top pick?

He’s not as in dispute as the math/Galz pairing— again that is only from following along. I haven’t thought through the tension there yet

Ok, I get that you're quite keen to exile gkrieg. But if not him then who? mathdude? Jack Rudd?

Absent today, I’ve found Galz/Jack scummier for the reasons I already said.  In math’s most recent posts, though, he seems to be setting up a me or him scenario. Which I find really strange. I’m not sure that is the decision we are making today and he is speaking as if it’s a certainty. Knowing that I’m town makes that super scummy especially with the “exile her now, figure the rest out tomorrow” argument when we all know it’s game over if we misexile today.

I know that I tend to find folks aiming for me scummier than they are, but it definitely seems sus to me. But until I read two math posts, I’d have said Galz/ack, so I think  any e I’ll wait and see ho withers react to math before I’m sold.

[Jack Rudd]

Galz certainly blundered when he claimed to be about to do something big and then missed the deadline, and I don't know how to fix it.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.3
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Galzria, Swowl
jotheonah (3) : WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, infangthief
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....

Here is a fun one.
- Math wagon. I am sitting with 2 unknowns on Math. One of them (galz) I do not think can possibly be skum if math is skum, and the other is my top TR.
- Joth wagon. Surprise, minimum of 1 skum there.
- and then there is floaty GK... which if they are skum makes kind of perfect sense for a WCD/Math/GK team in this snap shot.

(snip of 2.4 and 2.5, for brevity)

Vote Count 2.Final
scolapasta (5) : MiX, mathdude, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, gkrieg13
WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, scolapasta, 2.71828....., jotheonah
mathdude (2) : Galzria, Swowl

So that is
1. Math switching town to town
2. 3 town players switching to WCD
3. followed by  3 unknown players all switching to pasta (all of whom where previously on Town!Joth).

That leaves with that ridiculous End of Day 2 wagon where everyone is green on Didds. This gives me (well and skum... and Galz/Jack) a unique pov.... we are all absolutely positive that there cannot be less than 2 skum on pasta here.

Re: your comments on 2.3:
When you call EHFW your top townread, I assume you're not accounting for fang.

Then for your final thoughts:
When you see 3 town switching to WCD, and an EOD wagon of all 4 votes on her being town... does that not raise any flags?  And you've posted your (and Galz/Jack's) POV that there are then 2 scum on pasta... but from the rest of us, it is still somewhat possible that both you and Galz/Jack are scum, and there may only be 1 scum on pasta.  However, if that scum is Didds, I find it unlikely that both her partners would just camp out on me... though it was a somewhat late wagon, IIRC.  This does make it feel to me like there are probably 2 scum on pasta (Didds and either EFHW or gkrieg, I guess), plus one of Swowl or Galz/Jack.

So Swowl, what are your thoughts on Galz/Jack?  Could they be scum?  Are they scum with you?  Are you scum?  What do you think of the Didds wagon EOD2 and does this make Didds more likely scum?  Why didn't you comment much on it, other than to point out that there's multiple scum on pasta's wagon (from your POV)?

you successfully asked like 10 things I already answered.
minus the Didds wagon - which I thought was implied.

[Swowl]

meh... just re read... it was less implied for the wcd thing then I thought.
Allow me to jokingly answer some of the nonsense questions while actually answering the others....

1a) So Swowl, what are your thoughts on Galz/Jack? - this is 100% covered. I think they could be skum in place of other spots, but I don't think they could be skum with you. also covered... either they are skum, or they are town... either way... me, them, and the remainder of skum all have the same pov (or can lie about it I guess.. semantics).

1b) Are they scum with you? - hope not, that would be weird.

2) Are you skum? - Only if you are.

3)  What do you think of the Didds wagon EOD2 and does this make Didds more likely scum? I think... the wagon is all town. And obviously yes this grants points.

10)  Why didn't you comment much on it, other than to point out that there's multiple scum on pasta's wagon (from your POV)? - Not much to comment on there. All town wagon... the posts are long enough. I did things like cut out the obvious shit... same as Day 1 vca where I removed all votes that originated from town players.

[Swowl]

D3 Thoughts:
From my POV, Scum obviously didn't care who of me or MiX got voted out, as votes consolidated there toward EOD.  So whether scum didn't show up, or was around and didn't care to do much doesn't really matter.  They were happy with either outcome.  And Didds, potentially the only active one toward EOD, was able to do whatever looked most townie. 

So people that did nothing were skummy and the person that did do something was skummy?

[infangthief]

So here's what I think. 2 main points.

1.
Day 3 mathdude and Didds were bussing each other.
joth said so:

Didds is playing right into the “Didds and math are partners” narrative with that switch.

Kinda answers the “who could possibly be bussing?” Question nicely, doesn’t it?

That sucks. Somebody vote math. It’s so obvious what’s happening here.

Looking at other stuff from day 3 I agree with him. Then joth was the night kill.

2.
Day 1 mathdude reminded us of the importance of listening to dead townie players:

Then, even though f.ds usually doesn't look at dead townie players' posts and reads (and I really think they should, and will continue to say that)...

... but he has not continued to say that.

Maybe because the dead townies (especially the ones that have been night-killed) have been correctly identifying his scum partners.

I've already mentioned joth's final words.
Here are e's final words:

Vote: scola

Your partner to the rescue didds

e was the only one seriously suspicious of gkrieg.

So, as of start of day 4, I would have said the team is mathdude+Didds. And probably gkrieg.

The things I've seen happening Day 4 are:
- Swowl working hard to figure things out.
- mathdude, Didds and gkrieg initially unsure what to do (presumably their overnight plan involved throwing shade on me, after how day 3 ended), then trying to figure out whether they need to be bussing each other or not.
- Jack Rudd is the mystery. It is also weird how no-one else seems to have been trying to get Jack to give any views or commit to any positions or anything.

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning!

I am unsure what to do because I am utterly defeated by my ability to play this game. After the MiX flip I was way more bummed out than I should be about a game so I needed to take a minute and get some space. My initial thought was to come into the day and just tie my vote to someone we all trust. It would have been EFHW, but now it would be fang because of the double voter. I didn’t say it right off the bat because the double voter thing happened and then Jack replaced in, so my head was elsewhere. I’m still willing to do this. I will vote however you’d like me to vote. I have no scum motive at all, and I have only been wrong this game about everyone (except that I thought Joth was mistaken town, but I’m not sure I said that aloud). I only want to help us win and I have been ish at that so far.

An aside… I have some fear that EFHW is scum because someone being this universally town read is unlikely to still be alive, but I think if she is, we probably just lose. Well played. Swowl is town. Fang is town. It shouldn’t be this hard to choose one of the 4 of the remainder to exile with confidence.

For those of us that have a played a couple of games with Jack, the reason we aren’t pressing him more is that it tends to be of little use. He doesn’t really develop reads, and doesn’t share his thoughts beyond the immediate. At least that has been my sense.

[Jack Rudd]

That is a fair summary of the problems of playing with me. It's also why I tend only to come in as a sub.

[Jack Rudd]

(I am, by the way, posting this while sitting in a lounge at Singapore airport, with a 13-hour flight coming up soon.)

[mathdude]

gkrieg, please look at math again carefully. Helplessness here feels like a scum strategy to me.

So are you not saying much because you're happy with how wrong we are and you know you win the game today?  In a few hours, this most recent post of yours will be 48 hours old.

Prod: EFHW

Oh, and it's not that you haven't been online.  Your profile says this:

Last Active: Today at 10:20:44 am

[mathdude]

7 players left in this game, and 3 scum.  Time for me to organize my thoughts.

mathdude - I know I'm town.  Many have me in their top 2 as scum.  gkrieg who has been the main one town-reading me has been asked to re-read me, but is too busy IRL to do that.

infangthief - claimed double-voter, no counterclaim, but start-of-day posts seem to confirm a double-voter, so presumably confirmed IC (I say "presumably", but once he votes and it shows up in VC, then it is definitely confirmed).

gkrieg - has had 6 posts in the ~100 hours of D4 so far, and has responded to/about me and fang, stated an early-day willingness to vote for Didds or Jack, but lately posts have just said "I'm busy, I'll try and get to it" - also, was online about 30 minutes ago (as per his profile page), but didn't post anything.

EFHW - many people seem to be strongly town-reading her... can someone please tell me why?  Also, 7 posts in D4 so far, but as per my previous post nothing in the last 40+ hours, even though she's been online this morning.

Swowl - again, people seem to be town-reading him... can someone tell me why?  Is it just the try-hard of the VCA's lately?  Because I know I've done similar as scum in the past - it's very easy to do as scum, as long as you can parse the info that everyone knows and the info only you know and keep the second hidden... and when asked "what did you learn from that" - a scummy response is "not nearly as much as I had hoped", which I have said similarly as scum in the past!

Galz/Jack - even with the sub, still basically sliding under the radar.  The MO seems to be very similar to the previous time when Jack subbed in for a scum!Galz.  The one main idea that I've heard is that "Galz can't be scum with mathdude" (repeated by at lease 2 people) - is this why people aren't interested in Jack?  Or has he just been slipping under the radar still for others too?

Didds - the same way some people have kept coming back to "math must be scum"... I (and I think I've seen hints of it from others too) keep coming back to "Didds must be scum".  And I'm starting to have more of a problem with this read, since I'm recently reading Didds' frustration ("why are people scum-reading me?" and "if I'm voted out, game's over") as being almost the same as my frustration.

I'm trying to imagine a way that Didds might be town.  That would mean 3 of gkrieg, EFHW, Swowl, and Jack/Galz are scum.  Could that be true?  Maybe.  I feel like it's more likely Didds with 2 of those.  But if it is 3 of those 4, we don't need to sort out which 3 today.  We need to figure out 1.  Which is most likely?  I'd say probably Jack/Galz?

So if it's 3 of those 4, Jack/Galz is probably the way to go.  If it's Didds plus 2 of those 4, I think Jack/Galz is probably still 1 of the 2 (though I'm a little less confident).  I think at this point, I'd vote Didds or Jack/Galz.

[mathdude]

An aside… I have some fear that EFHW is scum because someone being this universally town read is unlikely to still be alive, but I think if she is, we probably just lose. Well played. Swowl is town. Fang is town. It shouldn’t be this hard to choose one of the 4 of the remainder to exile with confidence.

For those of us that have a played a couple of games with Jack, the reason we aren’t pressing him more is that it tends to be of little use. He doesn’t really develop reads, and doesn’t share his thoughts beyond the immediate. At least that has been my sense.

So don't give EFHW a pass.  Is there anything concrete saying she's town?  If not, then she could still be scum.  You have a very valid point of a strongly town-read player still being alive.  (But if EFHW is town and was killed instead of joth, we could probably have said the same thing about joth today).

Why is Swowl town?

And if we can't get much useful out of Jack today, then we have to go back to what Galz has given (or not given) us, which is strongly scummy, IMO, between not showing up much, voting then not changing it all day sometimes, etc.

[WestCoastDidds]

(I am, by the way, posting this while sitting in a lounge at Singapore airport, with a 13-hour flight coming up soon.)

Safe travels!

[WestCoastDidds]

gkrieg, please look at math again carefully. Helplessness here feels like a scum strategy to me.

So are you not saying much because you're happy with how wrong we are and you know you win the game today?  In a few hours, this most recent post of yours will be 48 hours old.

Prod: EFHW

Oh, and it's not that you haven't been online.  Your profile says this:

Last Active: Today at 10:20:44 am

If you leave the browser open, it will say you’ve been online when you open your  computer. So, that is not nefarious.

[mathdude]

So here's what I think. 2 main points.

1.
Day 3 mathdude and Didds were bussing each other.
joth said so:

Didds is playing right into the “Didds and math are partners” narrative with that switch.

Kinda answers the “who could possibly be bussing?” Question nicely, doesn’t it?

That sucks. Somebody vote math. It’s so obvious what’s happening here.

Looking at other stuff from day 3 I agree with him. Then joth was the night kill.

2.
Day 1 mathdude reminded us of the importance of listening to dead townie players:

Then, even though f.ds usually doesn't look at dead townie players' posts and reads (and I really think they should, and will continue to say that)...

... but he has not continued to say that.

Maybe because the dead townies (especially the ones that have been night-killed) have been correctly identifying his scum partners.

I've already mentioned joth's final words.
Here are e's final words:

Vote: scola

Your partner to the rescue didds

e was the only one seriously suspicious of gkrieg.

So, as of start of day 4, I would have said the team is mathdude+Didds. And probably gkrieg.

The things I've seen happening Day 4 are:
- Swowl working hard to figure things out.
- mathdude, Didds and gkrieg initially unsure what to do (presumably their overnight plan involved throwing shade on me, after how day 3 ended), then trying to figure out whether they need to be bussing each other or not.
- Jack Rudd is the mystery. It is also weird how no-one else seems to have been trying to get Jack to give any views or commit to any positions or anything.

I do still feel that f.ds should more often look back at dead townie players (especially those that are night-killed).  In this case, your quotes from joth show that he had wrong reads. 

Where are the conf-town votes each EoD?
D1: 2 on Dylan (they were wrong), 4 on 2.71 (they were were wrong), 1 not voting.
D2: 1 on pasta (he was wrong), 4 on Didds (jury's still out).
D3: 1 on MiX (fang was wrong), 2 on me (I and scum know they are wrong, but from other POV, jury's still out).

Conf-town players from D1 give us nothing.  From D2, they seem to strongly suggest we vote Didds.  From D3, it looks like they point to me.  But the 2 that were voting for me were MiX (the D2 Exile) and joth (who scum killed at night, presumably the point to me... note that they could have also killed EFHW with the same result).  Note that if scum killed anyone else last night, it would have resulted in a nothing!burger - killing a town among gkrieg, fang, me, or Didds would have been a conf!town on conf!town!MiX, and killing Swowl or Galz (if either are town) would be a conf!town not voting.  By killing from joth/EFHW, they can point to me for the final mix-exile.

Where are the votes from the remaining 6 who could be scum (from fang's POV) each EoD?
D1: math, gkrieg, Didds all on Dylan (we were wrong); EFHW, Swowl, Galz all on me.
D2: math, EFHW, gkrieg, Didds all on pasta (we were wrong); Galz, Swowl both on me.
D3: gkrieg, math, Didds all on MiX (we were wrong); EFHW on me; Galz, Swowl not voting.

So gkrieg, me, and Didds were always on the "winning" wagon, which always voted out town.  EFHW joined once.  EFHW, Swowl, and Galz all want me exiled.  So me, gkrieg, and Didds all know there's at least 1 scum in that latter group (EFHW, Swow, and Galz/Jack).  By the same logic that says (from an outside POV) that it's not me/gkrieg/Didds (why would we all vote the same all game?), I'm fairly certain it's not all of EFHW, Galz/Jack, and Swowl (they are way too united all game against me)... so that leads me to believe it's at least 1 of gkrieg or Didds again - maybe both, but probably 1?

I don't know how else to look at things.  I've tried a number of different perspectives, and I don't know what I've gained.  Maybe it helps someone else?  We need a red flip to actually start parsing things out.  Where is the most likely red today?  Given all the possible scum-teams, is Galz/Jack the common denominator?  Is it Didds?

[mathdude]

gkrieg, please look at math again carefully. Helplessness here feels like a scum strategy to me.

So are you not saying much because you're happy with how wrong we are and you know you win the game today?  In a few hours, this most recent post of yours will be 48 hours old.

Prod: EFHW

Oh, and it's not that you haven't been online.  Your profile says this:

Last Active: Today at 10:20:44 am

If you leave the browser open, it will say you’ve been online when you open your  computer. So, that is not nefarious.

Fair enough.

[infangthief]

"Scum wouldn't all be on the same wagon" only has any weight if the alternative feasible wagon(s) are all on town. And even then, there is WIFOM.

Do you remember dwarfs mafia? Scum team mathdude, Didds, Galzria.
Day 1 all on the same wagon (alternative was Didds).
Day 2 all on the same wagon (alternative was mathdude).

[infangthief]

Anyway, it's time we did some voting. I intend to vote for Didds.

[WestCoastDidds]

Anyway, it's time we did some voting. I intend to vote for Didds.

Then we lose.

Might as well get it over with if that is how its going to go.

[EFHW]

gkrieg, please look at math again carefully. Helplessness here feels like a scum strategy to me.

So are you not saying much because you're happy with how wrong we are and you know you win the game today?  In a few hours, this most recent post of yours will be 48 hours old.

Prod: EFHW

Oh, and it's not that you haven't been online.  Your profile says this:

Last Active: Today at 10:20:44 am

I sometimes check in but don't have time to make a worthwhile contribution.  You and Galz/Jack are my strongest scumreads, so yes, I have been ok with the directions things are going. I'm surprised to see fang settling on Didds. I plan to review his logic before responding.

[gkrieg13]

7 players left in this game, and 3 scum.  Time for me to organize my thoughts.

mathdude - I know I'm town.  Many have me in their top 2 as scum.  gkrieg who has been the main one town-reading me has been asked to re-read me, but is too busy IRL to do that.

infangthief - claimed double-voter, no counterclaim, but start-of-day posts seem to confirm a double-voter, so presumably confirmed IC (I say "presumably", but once he votes and it shows up in VC, then it is definitely confirmed).

gkrieg - has had 6 posts in the ~100 hours of D4 so far, and has responded to/about me and fang, stated an early-day willingness to vote for Didds or Jack, but lately posts have just said "I'm busy, I'll try and get to it" - also, was online about 30 minutes ago (as per his profile page), but didn't post anything.

EFHW - many people seem to be strongly town-reading her... can someone please tell me why?  Also, 7 posts in D4 so far, but as per my previous post nothing in the last 40+ hours, even though she's been online this morning.

Swowl - again, people seem to be town-reading him... can someone tell me why?  Is it just the try-hard of the VCA's lately?  Because I know I've done similar as scum in the past - it's very easy to do as scum, as long as you can parse the info that everyone knows and the info only you know and keep the second hidden... and when asked "what did you learn from that" - a scummy response is "not nearly as much as I had hoped", which I have said similarly as scum in the past!

Galz/Jack - even with the sub, still basically sliding under the radar.  The MO seems to be very similar to the previous time when Jack subbed in for a scum!Galz.  The one main idea that I've heard is that "Galz can't be scum with mathdude" (repeated by at lease 2 people) - is this why people aren't interested in Jack?  Or has he just been slipping under the radar still for others too?

Didds - the same way some people have kept coming back to "math must be scum"... I (and I think I've seen hints of it from others too) keep coming back to "Didds must be scum".  And I'm starting to have more of a problem with this read, since I'm recently reading Didds' frustration ("why are people scum-reading me?" and "if I'm voted out, game's over") as being almost the same as my frustration.

I'm trying to imagine a way that Didds might be town.  That would mean 3 of gkrieg, EFHW, Swowl, and Jack/Galz are scum.  Could that be true?  Maybe.  I feel like it's more likely Didds with 2 of those.  But if it is 3 of those 4, we don't need to sort out which 3 today.  We need to figure out 1.  Which is most likely?  I'd say probably Jack/Galz?

So if it's 3 of those 4, Jack/Galz is probably the way to go.  If it's Didds plus 2 of those 4, I think Jack/Galz is probably still 1 of the 2 (though I'm a little less confident).  I think at this point, I'd vote Didds or Jack/Galz.

Note that I just have this page on my computer, so it shows me as online when I open my computer. I went to sleep at 5:30 this morning and have chores to catch up on. I’ll try to get to this tonight, but I have tried to respond to direct questions to me that don’t require rereading a lot of the game.

[EFHW]

So it sounds like the cases on Didds and mathdude are linked. Two reasons:

1. They have been voting similarly.
2. Didds has twice changed votes with the result of a clutch save for mathdude (D1 and D3).

These point to possible partners Didds/math.

Other thoughts to ponder:

a. I think Jack and Didds are not scum together.
b. gkrieg has also been voting with math and Didds. I agree with math that they all three would not make up the team.
c. Didds has been super supportive of me. Makes it really hard for me to turn against her, and I've been staying out of the Didds question for that reason (also because the Galz/Jack case was so bad, it gave her townpoints in my eyes). But I will vote her if she seems like the best exile.

I'm going to reread Day 3 and see where that gets me.

[EFHW]

Gotten started with the reread, realized I'd forgotten about math's case on Didds. Maybe a partner makes a lousy case to create towncred for the partner, but I don't think that is likely. So this weakens the Didds/math link for me.

[WestCoastDidds]

If fang is a double voter, he will decide the game. Scum isn’t going to bus if he is leaning toward voting for me, and he only needs 2 scum to vote with him to exile me and end the game.

So, it’s all rather pointless. Only fang matters.

[Swowl]

Anyway, it's time we did some voting. I intend to vote for Didds.

Why are we on different pages about this in regards to Math/Didds?
is it just the day 2 wagon?

[mathdude]

Anyway, it's time we did some voting. I intend to vote for Didds.

Then we lose.

Might as well get it over with if that is how its going to go.

If fang is a double voter, he will decide the game. Scum isn’t going to bus if he is leaning toward voting for me, and he only needs 2 scum to vote with him to exile me and end the game.

So, it’s all rather pointless. Only fang matters.

Didds, it's posts like this that really give me pause on saying you're scum.  You're doing a really good job of looking like town, calling it a lost cause at this point.  Can you do something scummy again, so I can feel better about wanting to vote for you?

Like I said earlier, the problem if it's not you is that it's 3 of the remaining 4 and they have been very similar voting all game, and that bothers me.  If you're scum, it makes more sense to me.

[mathdude]

Anyway, it's time we did some voting. I intend to vote for Didds.

Why are we on different pages about this in regards to Math/Didds?
is it just the day 2 wagon?

And why are you assuming that people (or at least fang) think you're town?  If you're scum, then your reads don't matter as much, yet... and if Didds flips scum, then you look really bad for it.  (And if Didds flips town, then well played to you and your partners, for fooling most of the town).

[infangthief]

a. I think Jack and Didds are not scum together.

Why not? Start of day 2 looks very partnery to me, and is one of the reasons I'm preferring Didds over mathdude.

Gotten started with the reread, realized I'd forgotten about math's case on Didds. Maybe a partner makes a lousy case to create towncred for the partner, but I don't think that is likely. So this weakens the Didds/math link for me.

I did exactly that in Mouse Mafia and you called me out for "bussing with no teeth". What is the difference here?

[infangthief]

Anyway, it's time we did some voting. I intend to vote for Didds.

Why are we on different pages about this in regards to Math/Didds?
is it just the day 2 wagon?

I guess I need to reread what you've written, but I thought you were a fan of the Didds+Math team.

[infangthief]

For those of us that have a played a couple of games with Jack, the reason we aren’t pressing him more is that it tends to be of little use. He doesn’t really develop reads, and doesn’t share his thoughts beyond the immediate. At least that has been my sense.

But he was scum in ALL of those games. You don't want to find out if he might play differently when he's town?

[Jack Rudd]

I'm now safely back in the UK.

Still leaning towards the WCD/math/gk team, although I do take the point that they're playing a very bold game if that is the team. Still, scum occasionally needs to do that.

[EFHW]

a. I think Jack and Didds are not scum together.

Why not? Start of day 2 looks very partnery to me, and is one of the reasons I'm preferring Didds over mathdude.

Gotten started with the reread, realized I'd forgotten about math's case on Didds. Maybe a partner makes a lousy case to create towncred for the partner, but I don't think that is likely. So this weakens the Didds/math link for me.

I did exactly that in Mouse Mafia and you called me out for "bussing with no teeth". What is the difference here?

I forgot about that! But the energy behind math's case is different. I guess I don't know what math would do, but I would have a very hard time dissing a partner like that. You politely pointed to some things and never mentioned them again. But it's also true that in this game you have highlighted math's not following through with an apparent scumread. I'll look at it again, but even if reviewing renews the partner hypothesis, I'd want to exile math >Didds, since her scumminess is essentially her association with him.

I think her partnering with Jack is unlikely because of how Galz went after her D2. That's the same thing again, huh?

I'm on my phone and should really check all this stuff out on the computer.  What was partnery about them D2?

[WestCoastDidds]

For those of us that have a played a couple of games with Jack, the reason we aren’t pressing him more is that it tends to be of little use. He doesn’t really develop reads, and doesn’t share his thoughts beyond the immediate. At least that has been my sense.

But he was scum in ALL of those games. You don't want to find out if he might play differently when he's town?

Well sure, which is why I have asked him about his reads early on. He said that he doesn’t really know how to form reads. I am also mindful that this is his 4th game. This game is hard to get into, I appreciate him replacing in because if Galz was still just stringing him along we’d for sure think he was scum (and they might be) but generally I’d prefer not to make the game less hospitable by saying he’s not contributing when he is managing to show up and share some insight, which is more than I can say about Galz.

[WestCoastDidds]

Fang, can you tell me where you’re at? We need to vote today or tomorrow and if you are increasingly convinced that it is me, despite EFHW and Swowl expressing some skepticism of that position, I’d prefer to spend much of my weekend trying to convince you otherwise. Lost causes and all.

[WestCoastDidds]

Is there any way for us to test fangs double voting ability?

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm now safely back in the UK.

Still leaning towards the WCD/math/gk team, although I do take the point that they're playing a very bold game if that is the team. Still, scum occasionally needs to do that.

I don’t play bold games. I’m not a terribly bold person. When I win when I’m scum I do it by staying below the level of scrutiny. Much like Galz and gk have done here

[WestCoastDidds]

Let’s vote for gk! In pretty much all of our POE’s he’s a common denominator.

[EFHW]

Is there any way for us to test fangs double voting ability?

Yes, but it risks a quickhammer.

[mathdude]

Is there any way for us to test fangs double voting ability?

Yes, but it risks a quickhammer.

If fang votes scum, then there's no risk of a quickhammer.

But yes, in case he votes town, we'd need fang vote, have a vote count, then unvote, without 2 scum showing up between. But it's still a risk for scum, since 1 voting outs them, and if fang unvotes at that point before the 2nd shows up, then we know a scum. There would be no reason for town to vote.

So I guess it's fang's level of confidence... whether he's sure he's voting for scum, or whether he can stay active until a vote count (or to unvote if one scum shows up to try and quickhammer).

[WestCoastDidds]

When Reggie has done the vote counts that show us how we had voted before…. Would that work.(3 could vote and then unvote and we’d see it?

[WestCoastDidds]

When Reggie has done the vote counts that show us how we had voted before…. Would that work? Fang could vote and then unvote and we’d see it?

Fixed it

[Swowl]

Anyway, it's time we did some voting. I intend to vote for Didds.

Why are we on different pages about this in regards to Math/Didds?
is it just the day 2 wagon?

And why are you assuming that people (or at least fang) think you're town?  If you're scum, then your reads don't matter as much, yet... and if Didds flips scum, then you look really bad for it.  (And if Didds flips town, then well played to you and your partners, for fooling most of the town).

I don’t understand where you are inferring that I think people think I’m town from. I just asked fang a question.
And in regards to Didds, or anyone for that matter, I do not care at all how it makes me look - first world problems - the one and only goal today for all town is to find skum. That’s it.

[mathdude]

Anyway, it's time we did some voting. I intend to vote for Didds.

Why are we on different pages about this in regards to Math/Didds?
is it just the day 2 wagon?

And why are you assuming that people (or at least fang) think you're town?  If you're scum, then your reads don't matter as much, yet... and if Didds flips scum, then you look really bad for it.  (And if Didds flips town, then well played to you and your partners, for fooling most of the town).

I don’t understand where you are inferring that I think people think I’m town from. I just asked fang a question.
And in regards to Didds, or anyone for that matter, I do not care at all how it makes me look - first world problems - the one and only goal today for all town is to find skum. That’s it.

Maybe I misinterpreted, but it sounded like the "we" meant you were telling fang that between the 2 of you, you need to sort out who to vote for. Like a towncore was you and the IC.

[Swowl]

Nope - I just know he is town so I can trust his opinion, and he is choosing differently than I between the 2 of you, so I would like to know why.

[infangthief]

Nope - I just know he is town so I can trust his opinion, and he is choosing differently than I between the 2 of you, so I would like to know why.

Ok, thanks for clarifying what you meant. I have just done a complete reread of you to try and work out what you meant by the "different pages" thing. And I still didn't really get it. As far as I can see you've been suspicious of both mathdude and Didds, and often Didds more than mathdude.

Here are 3 reasons for preferring Didds:
First one is I am finding it hard to see any team that includes mathdude but not Didds. On the other hand I see a few potential teams that include Didds but not mathdude. I'll leave it a bit vague like that, so as not to influence night kill, hoping we get through to the night at all!

Second reason for stating that preference was to see what reactions I get. And the reactions from EFHW and yourself have been interesting, and make me more keen to exile Didds.

Third reason is that I'm happier using my extra vote to express the opinions of dead towns (e+scola+MiX+joth) - all 4 suspected Didds, rather than just the 2 (MiX+joth) who suspected mathdude.

[infangthief]

Fang, can you tell me where you’re at? We need to vote today or tomorrow and if you are increasingly convinced that it is me, despite EFHW and Swowl expressing some skepticism of that position, I’d prefer to spend much of my weekend trying to convince you otherwise. Lost causes and all.

It is not worth spending most of your weekend on this game. Or most of my weekend.

If I am wrong then I am sorry, to you and the entire town, but I think we just need to get on and...

vote: Didds

Vote Count please

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 4.1
Which came first: the chicken or the egg? The egg, by about 300 million years!

WestCoastDidds (2) : infangthief
 
Not voting (6) : EFHW, gkrieg13, Jack Rudd, mathdude, Swowl, WestCoastDidds
 
Currently, WestCoastDidds is set to be exiled!  With 7 alive, it takes 4 to exile. Day 4 ends March 21, 2022, 10:00:00 am your time.
 
Votes:
infangthief→WestCoastDidds

[WestCoastDidds]

Cool.

I'm dead, then.  Thanks for the game, ya'll.

Not scum, never was. I've played badly, but that doesn't make me anything other than a dummy or dupe, but not scum.

Fang, I hope that you apologies will be profuse. We deserve that from you for this.

[EFHW]

fang, you need to unvote! Or is this bait?

[EFHW]

Fang, can you tell me where you’re at? We need to vote today or tomorrow and if you are increasingly convinced that it is me, despite EFHW and Swowl expressing some skepticism of that position, I’d prefer to spend much of my weekend trying to convince you otherwise. Lost causes and all.

It is not worth spending most of your weekend on this game. Or most of my weekend.

If I am wrong then I am sorry, to you and the entire town, but I think we just need to get on and...

vote: Didds

Vote Count please

I guess this is more than a test. Maybe I should go ahead and vote math? I like him better than Didds. fang, what are you intending here? Final showdown - have it out now?

[gkrieg13]

I’m not sure what to make of Didds reaction.

[EFHW]

I’m not sure what to make of Didds reaction.

Lots of AtE, that's for sure!

[gkrieg13]

vote: Didds. I think with fang’s vote we probably don’t have any choice.

[EFHW]

ok, showdown time. vote: math

[WestCoastDidds]

Emotion, yes.  No appeal.  It's sad and frustrating.

I guess is that what happens when you have been scum for the last few months, but its still a bitter pill no have smart people be so thoroughly wrong and so convinced of their own righteousness. 

PPE: x-1

Then EFHW, so

vote: Math

[WestCoastDidds]

But gkrieg was the first scum to join!

[EFHW]

Sorry Didds

vote: Didds

[gkrieg13]

Oh interesting!  I still haven’t gotten around to reading math, but I’ve been reading EFHW as town. I could easily be convinced to join on math, I just haven’t seen a good case yet, other than vote count stuff that also incriminates Didds.

PPE: oh no, that’s probably not good

[EFHW]

Oh interesting!  I still haven’t gotten around to reading math, but I’ve been reading EFHW as town. I could easily be convinced to join on math, I just haven’t seen a good case yet, other than vote count stuff that also incriminates Didds.

PPE: oh no, that’s probably not good

Being the hammer and all

[WestCoastDidds]

Le sigh

[WestCoastDidds]

Well done, y'all

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 4.Final
It was a day of rejoicing for the red eggs. Soon, they would leave the nest and go off on their own, to cause who knows what mischief. But for now, they were safe and sound in the cozy nest.

WestCoastDidds (4) : infangthief, gkrieg13, EFHW
mathdude (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (3) : Jack Rudd, mathdude, Swowl
 
WestCoastDidds, an unhatched green egg has been exiled!  With 7 alive, it took 4 to exile. Game over.
 
Votes:
infangthief→WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13→WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds→mathdude
EFHW→WestCoastDidds

The red eggs EFHW the role cop, gkrieg13 the hatched cop, and Swowl the roleblocker have won.

[EFHW]

Gg!

[Swowl]

GG everyone!

We for sure were extremely fortunate with...
1) faust cop death
2) Joth Hatcher death
3) Last minute wagon to MiX (doctor death).

Concept of the set up was crazy cool and would def play it/alterations of it in the future.
Thanks for the game Reggie!

[J Reggie]

So, a few things:

1. Scum played a really good game here. Even with the best hatches, town would have had trouble. Nothing else I say should detract from that. Being amongst everyone's top town reads was entirely their doing.
2. Math hatched N1 as the tree stump. I knew from testing that the tree stump hatching N1 (and then getting endgamed, no less) was bad for town. I thought the setup favored town enough in other ways and this wouldn't be a problem. If I were to do it again, I wouldn't have the tree stump role. It was the last remnant of an earlier version of the setup where different roles had different triggers for hatching, but it's not really interesting and gives town too much of a disadvantage in the hatches.
3. Any game where scum kills the cop N1 is going to be hard for town to win. What makes it worse is that that was town's only useful hatch N1 (as the other was a tree stump). And that's one of the risks of this setup, not giving PRs a chance to play differently so as to avoid the NK. On the flip side, it makes it impossible for scum to PR hunt D1, so I'm not sure if that's really that good for scum.

[J Reggie]

Also, being a mod was really fun. If anyone wants to use the Google sheet I used for vote counts, I'll clean it up and post it. It was adapted from this spreadsheet, but I had to change a bunch to get rid of the l-word and make it work with our urls and customs.

[gkrieg13]

Yay! Gg everyone. EFHW worried me with her vote on math after I had set up the hammer.

[Swowl]

wow... add to the list. Super fortunate math didn't get exiled then over didds or mix.

[Swowl]

Also, being a mod was really fun. If anyone wants to use the Google sheet I used for vote counts, I'll clean it up and post it. It was adapted from this spreadsheet, but I had to change a bunch to get rid of the l-word and make it work with our urls and customs.

oh yes please share!

[MiX]

Damn. We were never going to win that game. GG!

[EFHW]

Yay! Gg everyone. EFHW worried me with her vote on math after I had set up the hammer.

Yeah, sorry. I'm really slow. I figure things out in the end.

[EFHW]

I liked this setup a lot. There were a lot of balancing factors in it. The stump is probably too swingy - you could give it a power before it dies if you don't want to take it out altogether.

[J Reggie]

Here is the spreadsheet.  The options under config should be pretty self-explanatory; I added some new options that aren't in the original.  You can make a copy of it for yourself if you want to use it, although I might add some more features.  I was trying to add support for making someone a double-voter, but in the end I just did it manually.

Also, could people tell me if they can't see the arrows in that last vote count?  If it looks like boxes to anyone, I'll change it back to the ASCII arrows that were there before.

[J Reggie]

I've made the speccy and Mod QT public.  If anyone wants me to not make their channel public, let me know, otherwise I'll make everything public in a few days.

[Jack Rudd]

Well played, Mafia team. Sorry I couldn't be a better opponent.

[EFHW]

I'm fine with mafia qt being made public.

[mathdude]

Well, Scum had it won as D4 progressed for sure.  1 IC double-voter.  3 scum who were the next highest town-read by most.  Then 3 town who were bounced back and forth as the fall guys - me, Didds, and Galz/Jack.  There was almost nothing they could have done to lose the game at that point, I'd guess.

So Didds, I was right that I was seeing the same frustration in you as I was having when people targeted me.  But even so, had we all switched to Galz/Jack, we still would have lost.

vote: Didds. I think with fang’s vote we probably don’t have any choice.

There was a tiny chance here, in the 3-5 minutes after gkrieg's vote, if fang had unvoted, we probably could have killed gkrieg and found our first scum.  But even then, I doubt we would have gotten them all in order anyway.

As a side note, I guess I was right about not explicitly trusting people's town-reads, that none of EFHW, Swowl, or gkrieg should be considered as town.  But I was totally wrong in my scum-team-call ... was it Didds, Galz/Jack, and Swowl I said, I think?  That was earlier in the day, and I was much less confident of that call toward the end.

So now gkrieg, was it intentional that you "town-read" me so hard the whole game?  Was it to keep me on your side?  Or did it just sort of happen?  Regardless, you won't be getting away with that again as scum any time again in the near future.

And Swowl... well played toward the end with all the effort and posts with VCA to look townie.  I saw past it, as I have done very similarly in the past as scum.  But it didn't matter, as you weren't high enough on anyone's radars to matter.

Overall, good job scum. 

[mathdude]

2. Math hatched N1 as the tree stump. I knew from testing that the tree stump hatching N1 (and then getting endgamed, no less) was bad for town. I thought the setup favored town enough in other ways and this wouldn't be a problem. If I were to do it again, I wouldn't have the tree stump role. It was the last remnant of an earlier version of the setup where different roles had different triggers for hatching, but it's not really interesting and gives town too much of a disadvantage in the hatches.

Seriously!?!?  So all those close calls of getting exiled, and in hindsight, I would have better to town for me to have died than to have had the other townies die... especially the day MiX was exiled.  After his claim, I got back to the thread too late to do anything (only by a few minutes - I think I was playing with my kids at that time, IIRC).  But I wondered if I should have self-voted at that time (if I had returned before deadline), to try and keep the doctor in the game.  I determined it wouldn't have been worth it for 2 reasons - if MiX was scum it would have been a stupid move, and if MiX was town/doctor then he'd end up getting night-killed (or at least RB'ed if scum had that role) anyway.  Hindsight!  Maybe it would have made a difference... who knows.

[mathdude]

And for everyone still scum-reading me through the whole game... I WAS TOWN!  This is me.  Looking at speccy, I'll say joth, I'm looking at you!  EFHW and Swowl, I get that you two were pushing me or camping on me often, for consistency, now that I know you two were scum (and to contrast gkrieg who town-read me).

Again, from speccy, good to see that Dylan, and I think maybe one other are recognizing their bias to scum-read me.

I'm trying to slowly adapt my play style so I'm not scum-read so much.  But this is just how I post.  Maybe next game, I'll be a completely different personality, just to change things up!

[gkrieg13]

Well, Scum had it won as D4 progressed for sure.  1 IC double-voter.  3 scum who were the next highest town-read by most.  Then 3 town who were bounced back and forth as the fall guys - me, Didds, and Galz/Jack.  There was almost nothing they could have done to lose the game at that point, I'd guess.

So Didds, I was right that I was seeing the same frustration in you as I was having when people targeted me.  But even so, had we all switched to Galz/Jack, we still would have lost.

vote: Didds. I think with fang’s vote we probably don’t have any choice.

There was a tiny chance here, in the 3-5 minutes after gkrieg's vote, if fang had unvoted, we probably could have killed gkrieg and found our first scum.  But even then, I doubt we would have gotten them all in order anyway.

As a side note, I guess I was right about not explicitly trusting people's town-reads, that none of EFHW, Swowl, or gkrieg should be considered as town.  But I was totally wrong in my scum-team-call ... was it Didds, Galz/Jack, and Swowl I said, I think?  That was earlier in the day, and I was much less confident of that call toward the end.

So now gkrieg, was it intentional that you "town-read" me so hard the whole game?  Was it to keep me on your side?  Or did it just sort of happen?  Regardless, you won't be getting away with that again as scum any time again in the near future.

And Swowl... well played toward the end with all the effort and posts with VCA to look townie.  I saw past it, as I have done very similarly in the past as scum.  But it didn't matter, as you weren't high enough on anyone's radars to matter.

Overall, good job scum.

Town reading you was definitely a buddying scheme. I was going to turn on you today, but really didn’t have time to go read. I was honestly very busy this last Day.

[infangthief]

Gah. Well done scum. I did suspect EFHW. Especially after e's death. And the suspicion grew on the final day. But only in a team with Didds.

Sorry Didds. << profuse apologies.

Did all 3 scum hatch then?
Joth, did you hatch me, or was I a random hatch?

[infangthief]

I was completely taken in by Swowl though.

I think e was the only town player who was suspecting the right people really.

Thanks J Reggie for the game.

[EFHW]

Gah. Well done scum. I did suspect EFHW. Especially after e's death. And the suspicion grew on the final day. But only in a team with Didds.

Sorry Didds. << profuse apologies.

Did all 3 scum hatch then?
Joth, did you hatch me, or was I a random hatch?

You gave a really good argument for why math had to be town. I don't remember what it was, but you could have brought it up again on D4.

Also helped us that no one took up math's suggestion of a massclaim.

[jotheonah]

Gah. Well done scum. I did suspect EFHW. Especially after e's death. And the suspicion grew on the final day. But only in a team with Didds.

Sorry Didds. << profuse apologies.

Did all 3 scum hatch then?
Joth, did you hatch me, or was I a random hatch?

I hatched Swowl. 

[jotheonah]

So why was I killed, if I was so wrong about everything?

[Swowl]

So why was I killed, if I was so wrong about everything?

Poe to push fang after he led the mix change.
Obv wasn’t expecting the Ic status lol

[J Reggie]

I've made all the channels visible so people can read the Mafia QT and others.

[infangthief]

Well, that was sad, to be so wrong on everything.

I feel like I'm good at looking towny, but rubbish at doing things that objectively help my faction.

Two good things that came out of this game:
- I discovered Globle (thanks Didds).
- I found that "glyph" isn't a bad first word in Wordle (thanks joth).