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[Oyvind]

Seaside: Pearl Diver, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Embargo, Lookout. The first three are duds; Sea Hag because I don't like having two cheap junking attacks in one set and would rather take out Sea Hag than Ambassador, plus some people don't like that it has no upside, just attack; Embargo is a dud but also I get to not include Embargo tokens; Lookout is fine but a lot of casual players don't like it. With any 2E I would try to make better versions of cards that left that had merit to the premise or flavor, and would try to get more use out of extra components. So here, I'd have maybe 3 cards that used the coin tokens, and a different Pirate Ship. I wanted to do a Seaside 2E; it didn't happen because Jay didn't want to ask Valerie if we could replace Harem and give her a new card in Intrigue 2E, and well Seaside has two cards depicting people, Pearl Diver and Navigator. Plus Jay had boxes of Embargo tokens sitting around. It still might happen someday; the usual problem is, it's competing with all other projects.

Thanks, trivialknot! I remember reading this, but I couldn’t remember the specifics. Now I believe the cut cards will be these six plus Island and Native Village. It gets rid of all the player mats and tokens while removing the six cards most recently mentioned in public by DXV as cards he would like to remove. It all makes sense.

[trivialknot]

You would actually want to drop wharf? why?

Great question.  While I understand that stronger cards are generally more popular, because you get to do bigger things in games that include them, we tend not to like them as much, because they're centralizing, and lead to situations where one player unlocked the big thing and the other player has to sit around and give a good hard think about resigning.  King's Court is one of our most common vetoes for that reason.  Wharf, eh.  I'd keep it but if DXV decides to remove it I'd go along with his judgment on that one.

We've been playing for over a decade, and are aware of the competitive scene, but don't actually play online.  So we're sort of casual players but also not.  And for what it's worth some stuff that's relatively fast online is slower offline (e.g. shuffling, tracking large action chains), and vice versa (e.g. attack and reaction effects).

[silverspawn]

Something I've wondered for a while is why Wharf has +buy instead of Merchant Ship. I'm guessing donald already answered this at some point somewhere.

[J Reggie]

Something I've wondered for a while is why Wharf has +buy instead of Merchant Ship. I'm guessing donald already answered this at some point somewhere.

From the secret history of Seaside: "Wharf: The original version didn't have the +1 Buy. It got that to compare more favorably to Merchant Ship."  I think back in the day the playtesters vastly underrated draw and overrated +.

[silverspawn]

That is pretty funny because if Merchant Ship had the +buy, Wharf would definitely still be the stronger card.

[Shvegait]

Given that there are 9 new cards, and there will be an update pack product, I'm assuming the update pack will contain an even 100 cards. Each non-Victory card requires 11 cards, and if there are 9 of those, that uses up 99 cards, for 1 blank. There's not room for a single new Victory card. Based on that, I am predicting Island won't be cut and remains the single alt VP card in the set.

As Seaside currently has enough blanks for one more non-Victory card, it's logical that 8 cards would be cut from the set.

Here are my predictions of what stays and what goes:

100% chance of staying:
Caravan
Fishing Village
Salvager
Warehouse
Bazaar
Tactician
Lighthouse
Ghost Ship
Ambassador
Outpost
Wharf
Smugglers
Haven

Probably staying:
Island (errata to not reference a mat)
Native Village (but what about the mat?)
Treasure Map

Take it or leave it:
Merchant Ship
Treasury (replaced with a Hireling for +$1?)

Probably leaving:
Navigator (art issue?)
Pearl Diver (art issue?)
Explorer
Cutpurse

100% chance of leaving:
Pirate Ship
Embargo
Sea Hag
Lookout

If Pearl Diver and Navigator both have to stay, then probably Merchant Ship and Treasury are gone instead. If Native Village has to go (which would be a big shame), then either Explorer or Cutpurse stays.

Regardless of what is cut, I can't wait to see the new cards! Seaside was my first expansion, and it was good times. The attacks are brutal, the swings are big, but that's all part of the charm. Despite the duds, there are quite a lot of unique concepts in this set. The new cards in Base and Intrigue added a lot of life to those sets, and I'm looking forward to breaking out Seaside again with some new cards.

[NoMoreFun]

Had a go at rewording/reworking cards to avoid mats and tokens.



Embargo works very differently with Throne Room variants and Lurker. It would probably also need rulebook clarification about where the Embargoes go at the end of the game (most sensible would be they don't go into anyone's deck).

Pirate Ship interacts differently with cards that count the cards/treasures in your deck, and Treasurer.

I think Island and Native Village are functionally the same.

[GendoIkari]

Was there a post from Donald talking about the potential for an Embargo that uses the card itself instead of tokens or something? I've seen that mentioned a few times in this thread, as if people just expect it to happen.

Same question in regards to removing the Native Village / Island / Pirate Ship mats.

[J Reggie]

Was there a post from Donald talking about the potential for an Embargo that uses the card itself instead of tokens or something? I've seen that mentioned a few times in this thread, as if people just expect it to happen.

Same question in regards to removing the Native Village / Island / Pirate Ship mats.

The idea of embargo using itself instead of tokens comes from the secret history, I'm not sure if there's anything more recent to suggest that. Also just a general move away from having extra components that are only used for one card.

[silverspawn]

On the Island one, is it ok to leave out the "return them to your deck at the end of the game" clause?

[GendoIkari]

On the Island one, is it ok to leave out the "return them to your deck at the end of the game" clause?

Not only ok, but would be a nice improvement. That clause has caused a fair amount of rules questions to be asked, with people asking about cards still set aside by Haven, etc, at the end of the game.

[spineflu]

there is a flipside to the "no mats" prediction: you can fit 6 mats on a sheet. While a decrease in number of mats would be neat, having a single split mat (like we've got in renaissance) for NV + Island seems doable, and cuts it down to one piece of cardboard insert.

Also

Given that there are 9 new cards, and there will be an update pack product, I'm assuming the update pack will contain an even 100 cards. Each non-Victory card requires 11 cards, and if there are 9 of those, that uses up 99 cards, for 1 blank. There's not room for a single new Victory card. Based on that, I am predicting Island won't be cut and remains the single alt VP card in the set.

that just means one isn't added; does not mean island doesn't get the axe.

[ClouduHieh]

Removed bace cards.
1. Chancellor 2. Woodcutter 3. Thief 4. Feast 5. Spy 6. Adventurer
Added cards bace game
1. Harbinger 2. Merchant 3. Vassal 4. Poacher 5. Bandit 6. Sentry 7. Artisan
Removed cards intrigue
1. Secret chamber 2. Great hall 3. Copper smith 4. Scout 5. Saboteur 6. Tribute
Added cards intrigue
1. Lurker 2. Diplomat 3. Mill 4. Secret passage 5. Courtier 6. Patrol 7. Replace

Even though the ratio was the same for these there’s now guarantee that 8 cards are getting removed maybe only some are getting removed and a few others changed. And who knows maybe because exile does exist maybe island and native village will be changed to exile?

[Awaclus]

Even though the ratio was the same for these there’s now guarantee that 8 cards are getting removed maybe only some are getting removed and a few others changed.

We know that we're getting 9 new cards.

[Oyvind]

Seaside: Pearl Diver, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Embargo, Lookout. The first three are duds; Sea Hag because I don't like having two cheap junking attacks in one set and would rather take out Sea Hag than Ambassador, plus some people don't like that it has no upside, just attack; Embargo is a dud but also I get to not include Embargo tokens; Lookout is fine but a lot of casual players don't like it. With any 2E I would try to make better versions of cards that left that had merit to the premise or flavor, and would try to get more use out of extra components. So here, I'd have maybe 3 cards that used the coin tokens, and a different Pirate Ship. I wanted to do a Seaside 2E; it didn't happen because Jay didn't want to ask Valerie if we could replace Harem and give her a new card in Intrigue 2E, and well Seaside has two cards depicting people, Pearl Diver and Navigator. Plus Jay had boxes of Embargo tokens sitting around. It still might happen someday; the usual problem is, it's competing with all other projects.

Thanks, trivialknot! I remember reading this, but I couldn’t remember the specifics. Now I believe the cut cards will be these six plus Island and Native Village. It gets rid of all the player mats and tokens while removing the six cards most recently mentioned in public by DXV as cards he would like to remove. It all makes sense.

I’m modifying my guess. I think (and hope) Native Village will stay, but without a board. I’m thinking a sideways card like that for Young Witch (there’s room for one additional card, and I think, as I’ve already stated, that they will get rid of the boards and tokens for this expansion). The replacement cut will be Merchant Ship, i think. It’s, IMHO, the worst remaining card, by far. So my modified list of eight cuts will be:

- Embargo
- Island
- Lookout
- Merchant Ship
- Navigator
- Pearl Diver
- Pirate Ship
- Sea Hag

[Commodore Chuckles]

My idea for a better Pirate Ship is to combine it with Cutpurse:

Privateer
Action - Attack - $4
Choose one: Each other player discards a Treasure or reveals they can't, and if any player discarded a Treasure, take a Pirate Token, or +$1 per Pirate Token you have.

[flynd]

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[NoMoreFun]

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Very surprised Merchant Ship survived, especially if they don't buff it in any way. I expected Explorer to be the card that held on even though it's often thought of as bad.

I don't think it will be too much of a stretch to give Lookout optional trashing and Cutpurse a "4 or more cards in hand" limit on who can be attacked by it.

[Davio]

I'm not sad to see Sea Hag go, in general, cards which don't provide any benefit to you, but only hurt your opponents, are not fun.
That's why Saboteur had to go as well.

Island and Native Village can keep existing without mats. Island could be retrofitted to exile cards instead, it wouldn't change the design of the card that much.
Native Island could be printed without a special mat, it could just say "set aside". Now that we have Inheritance and Royal Galley the "set aside area" can be an area which actually exists.

Pirate Ship could be retrofitted to work with favors instead of its own tokens.

[silverspawn]

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag

If true, I score 5/8, but wrong on Lookout... I guess people change their minds

[grrgrrgrr]

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

In this topic, SmilingTeethMayBite points out that there is an inconsitency in the photo, so this photo might be incorrect altogether.

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Very surprised Merchant Ship survived, especially if they don't buff it in any way. I expected Explorer to be the card that held on even though it's often thought of as bad.

I don't think it will be too much of a stretch to give Lookout optional trashing and Cutpurse a "4 or more cards in hand" limit on who can be attacked by it.

It is not a stretch as all to have Explorer go, as Sculptor and falconer make this card look incredibly stupid (though I guess Harem is in the same boat, with Conquest existing.).

[silverspawn]

It is not a stretch as all to have Explorer go, as Sculptor and falconer make this card look incredibly stupid (though I guess Harem is in the same boat, with Conquest existing.).

[J Reggie]

But what about Moat?

[Holger]

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I've downloaded the ASS Handelskatalog which is given as a source for the BGG image, but it shows another Seaside rulebook image on p. 96 than the BGG image does. I can quite clearly identify Ambassador, Pirate Ship and Sea Hag on the right-hand side of the ASS Handelskatalog rulebook. So I would wait for a more reliable source of the list of removed cards...

[Oyvind]

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I've downloaded the ASS Handelskatalog which is given as a source for the BGG image, but it shows another Seaside rulebook image on p. 96 than the BGG image does. I can quite clearly identify Ambassador, Pirate Ship and Sea Hag on the right-hand side of the ASS Handelskatalog rulebook. So I would wait for a more reliable source of the list of removed cards...

That’s an image of the first edition, though (with only 26 kingdom piles).