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Author Topic: Seaside 2E Announced  (Read 12916 times)

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spineflu

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Seaside 2E Announced
« on: January 27, 2022, 09:31:54 am »
+13

https://www.riograndegames.com/2022/01/dominion-seaside-2nd-edition-announced/

Quote
Seaside is getting a second edition. Hooray! There will be 9 new cards and an update pack for those customers who already own the first edition of Seaside. A few cards will also get minor errata, but will not appear in the update pack.

Itís been a long time coming! At first, I thought Seaside 2E would follow soon after Intrigue 2E, then for years, it didnít happen. It came about really from a wave of work on Dominion during the pandemic, that started with the upcoming Allies expansion. I gradually warmed to the idea and now itís, well, not that far off.

So far we expect Seaside 2E in peopleís hands in April (in English; we donít know about other languages, but German, Japanese, and Dutch will probably not be far behind). I will update everyone if the date changes or becomes more pinned down. And I expect to do previews just before the release.

So until then, you do at least get to speculate: what cards are leaving?
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spineflu

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2022, 09:35:15 am »
+1

nine cards out, my guess is:
(for weakness)
Haven
Navigator
Lookout

(extra component rebalance - cost goes down if you don't have to include mats, coins)
PShip (maybe replaced)
Island (replaced with a version that just does "set aside")
Native Village (maybe replaced)
Embargo (replaced with a version that uses the card itself as the embargo token, which emphasizes 'you don't get to place multiples of these for throne stuff')

(other)
Wharf (too centralizing/automatic)
Merchant Ship (replaced with a 'Now and Next turn, +$2 +1 Buy' card)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2022, 12:44:02 pm by spineflu »
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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2022, 10:01:59 am »
+2

Seaside was the first expansion I got, for Christmas 2012, and along with Dark Ages the one whose cards I've played the most, so I'm excited to see what's new.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2022, 11:10:11 am »
+5

I was just thinking about the idea that the +buy should be moved from Wharf to Merchant Ship for balance, but I highly doubt that's going to happen. I'd say Sea Hag is likely to be removed for the same reasons as Saboteur. Maybe Explorer will be taken out and replaced with the best $5 ever.

spineflu

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2022, 11:14:43 am »
0

its really weird that seaside had 12 blanks, per the wiki. could just full on add a kingdom pile, no removals.
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SirSlugma

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2022, 11:16:02 am »
+2

Hoping Lookout survives somehow; it's still one of my favorite Seaside cards.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2022, 11:31:28 am »
+2

We don't know that 9 cards will be removed; right? The other sets each had 6 removed and 7 added.
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spineflu

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2022, 11:35:34 am »
0

We don't know that 9 cards will be removed; right? The other sets each had 6 removed and 7 added.
correct
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JW

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2022, 12:48:21 pm »
+3

Fantastic news! I predict 8 removals. The first seven seem clear to me: Embargo, Pearl Diver, Lookout, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Explorer.

Donald seems to have recognized that Distant Lands is what Islands should have been, but that doesn't mean he'll cut Island. Merchant Ship might be cut to make room for a stronger and more interesting card. The suspense!
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silverspawn

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2022, 04:44:23 pm »
+5

nine cards out, my guess is:
(for weakness)
Lookout
:o

spineflu

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2022, 05:40:27 pm »
+1

nine cards out, my guess is:
(for weakness)
Lookout
:o

i mean like, "feelsbadness" more than weakness with lookout, especially for the newer/casual player who gets prov-prov-gold with it
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GendoIkari

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2022, 12:44:33 am »
+4

We all know that Lookout is hands down the best 3-4$ trasher.


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Erick648

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2022, 03:20:27 am »
+1

Fantastic news! I predict 8 removals. The first seven seem clear to me: Embargo, Pearl Diver, Lookout, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Explorer.

Donald seems to have recognized that Distant Lands is what Islands should have been, but that doesn't mean he'll cut Island. Merchant Ship might be cut to make room for a stronger and more interesting card. The suspense!
This list makes a lot of sense to me.  Lookout isnít weak, but it could be replaced with something less scary to new players, just like how some of the other removed cards got similar replacements.

For the eighth removal, Iím guessing Native Village.  Itís not a bad card, but if heís getting rid of Pirate Ship and replacing Islandís mat with a simple ďset this aside with another card,Ē getting rid of the last remaining mat seems like it would be too tempting.  And unlike Island, Native Village canít really work without its mat, although we would likely see a replacement with the same general functionality that didnít require a mat.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that Pearl Diver and Navigator may be immune for the same reason as Harem: They depict real people.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 03:37:27 am by Erick648 »
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silverspawn

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2022, 04:56:58 am »
0

unIronically, lookout will definitely be cut. Would bet on it over any other card. Donald described it as the dud of the expansion if I remember right, and his take is what matters

ClouduHieh

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2022, 05:12:43 am »
+2

I remember getting a lot of grief when I said lookout was a horrible card, and now itís most likely one of the cards being replaced. I also think that navigator, haven, sea hag, explorer, merchant ship, pearl diver, and cutpurse will be on the chopping block too. As for embargo I doubt he would cut that, because then what would we do with the embargo tokens that only work with the one card, just like island, what would we do with the island mat.

And if lookout does get replaced, you guys need to turn all your grief on the designer and not me, because if the designer is replacing a dud, you shouldnít be giving me grief when I say itís a horrible card. Because it clearly is! We all have cards we like and hate and weíre all entitled to hate certain cards. If you still think lookout is a great card then good for you.

And I can understand why itís a good idea to replace some cards from seaside, itís mostly for those who havenít bought it yet. Seaside is kind of near the bottom of barrel for me, all the cards I think that might get replaced, Iíd rather not play with. And Iím sure Iím not the only that sees that seaside doesnít offer much. I mean alchemy doesnít offer much, but mostly because itís too small to play alone. But seaside is the second expansion I would rather not play with if weíre not playing with other expansions. I donít bother playing these expansions alone: prosperity, seaside, guilds and alchemy. The rest of the expansions offer lots of stuff and I still enjoy playing them separately.
So It makes sense to make seaside more worth getting. Thereís still plenty of people who havenít bought seaside yet. And even though itís the expansion that introduced us to durations, most people get encouraged to buy one of the expansions like adventures or empires over seaside. So it would make sense to make some more interesting durations too. Dominion players who are looking for more simplistic expansions still have hinterlands and intrigue which have more variety going for them. And obviously intrigue got the upgrade a long time ago.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 05:40:01 am by ClouduHieh »
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silverspawn

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2022, 09:02:14 am »
+4

One problem is that language by default conflates design and power level. "Good" and "best" is used for both; you could only say "strong" and "weak" for power, but people don't. Lookout is (ironic but unironically true) quite strong, but it's arguably a bad design, especially for beginners. The part where you trash your good cards sometimes is irks, and will be overrated by beginners relative to the trashing, and the part where you trash a card from your deck will be underrated by beginners because it's a sort of hidden card draw. So it will look much weaker than it really is, and they will refuse to play it when they should, and sometimes they will play it and feel bad as a result.

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2022, 09:20:44 am »
+3

I remember getting a lot of grief when I said lookout was a horrible card, and now itís most likely one of the cards being replaced.

Well, you got one post politely explaining why it's considered a powerful card by competitive players, and another post going into less detail complementing the former. Perhaps you've gotten a lot of grief over that somewhere else.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2022, 11:40:56 am »
0

I wonder how the removed cards will be handled on dominion.games. It doesn't have the removed Base Set and Intrigue cards, but if I remember correctly, they had already been removed before it launched, so they were just never in.

I just noticed that the Steam page for the other (Temple Gates) electronic Dominion apparently has DLC for the removed Base Set and Intrigue cards.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2022, 02:26:32 pm »
+6

I'm gonna be honest, I have mixed feelings about this shift. 8 cuts is pretty drastic. In Base and Intrigue, there were a lot more obvious examples of complete duds and guess what, both sets had at least one worthless card that survived the cut (Base had Bureaucrat, Intrigue had Harem). And 2E Base even has Harbinger, which I think now qualifies as a complete dud.

And in all honestness, I hope Sea Hag stays. Attacks doing something for the user is not a one-size-fits-all rule, and Sea Hag is also less automatic than Witch or most other Cursers. And if we were to get rid of an Attack, I'd rather see Cutpurse go, as that feels like a poor man's Militia in 99% of the cases.

If I were to rank Seaside cards by how badly they deserve to be cut, I'd probably get:

S: Navigator, Pearl Diver
A: Embargo, Pirate Ship, Explorer, Cutpurse
B: Merchant Ship, Island, Haven
C: Sea Hag, Lookout, Treasure Map
D: Treasury, Smugglers, Lighthouse, Native Village
E: Rest

EDIT: Can't resist the urge to relook at this tierlist, and reposition some cards. And the poster below me is completely right about Harbinger lol.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 03:35:45 pm by grrgrrgrr »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2022, 02:39:05 pm »
+8

Harbinger is fine. They can't all be the best $3 card ever.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2022, 03:22:59 pm »
+4

I'm gonna be honest, I have mixed feelings about this shift. 8 cuts is pretty drastic. In Base and Intrigue, there were a lot more obvious examples of complete duds and guess what, both sets had at least one worthless card that survived the cut (Base had Bureaucrat, Intrigue had Harem). And 2E Base even has Harbinger, which I think now qualifies as a complete dud.

The question is, are those sets now a lot better than they used to be? And I think the answer is pretty clearly yes.
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brokoli

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2022, 03:51:46 pm »
0

Honestly I'm excited but really worried at the same time. In my opinion, the only cards that deserve to leave are : Pirate Ship, Pearl Diver, Navigator.
I'm fine about cutting Embargo if it is replaced by a better designed card on this mechanism (for example putting the embargo token or whatever it is on-buy).

Otherwise I enjoy all the other cards, Island is one of my all-time favorites and I still haven't mourned the Coppersmith.
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Cuzz

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2022, 04:33:53 pm »
+3

Navigator is weak powerwise and sifting isnít something that other cards donít do.

Trash at the risk of blowing up good stuff isnít something any other card does (well, Junk Dealer and Upgrade technically do but then you are actively gambling, having no junk in hand and only hoping to draw into junk) so Lookout is unique to some degree.

Coppersmith also did something no other card does  :(
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anordinaryman

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2022, 05:37:27 pm »
+3

Honestly wharf should be removed. Itís too strong and does everything. If it didnít have the +buy it would still be super strong and worth it. It just gives too much, and if I had a time machine itís definitely one of 7 seaside cards Iíd rethink. And the second edition is kind of a time machine.

Also, I have a feeling 7 cards will be replaced and we get 2 extraó for a few reasons: seaside already has more blank cards, and if any of NV, island, or pirate ship are removed (incredibly likely that pirate ship is removed) the lack of Mats adds room for more new cards. We might even only lose 6 cards.
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silverspawn

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2022, 06:03:30 pm »
+3

Navigator is weak powerwise and sifting isnít something that other cards donít do.

Trash at the risk of blowing up good stuff isnít something any other card does (well, Junk Dealer and Upgrade technically do but then you are actively gambling, having no junk in hand and only hoping to draw into junk) so Lookout is unique to some degree.

Coppersmith also did something no other card does  :(

Not really though after Bank. And Bank has a more reasonable power level, too.

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2022, 11:11:00 pm »
0

Honestly wharf should be removed. Itís too strong and does everything. If it didnít have the +buy it would still be super strong and worth it. It just gives too much, and if I had a time machine itís definitely one of 7 seaside cards Iíd rethink. And the second edition is kind of a time machine.

Also, I have a feeling 7 cards will be replaced and we get 2 extraó for a few reasons: seaside already has more blank cards, and if any of NV, island, or pirate ship are removed (incredibly likely that pirate ship is removed) the lack of Mats adds room for more new cards. We might even only lose 6 cards.

Right now Seaside has 300 physical cards. If it were going to get more cards, it would be in groups of 100. And I will tell you right now, that's not happening. Seaside will still be 300 cards. It might get cheaper, like Hinterlands is! But it also might not. We are in an inflationary period and board game margins are pretty thin I think.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2022, 03:45:29 pm »
0

Coppersmith and saboteur both cards I never got a chance to try. As a copper strategist thatís definitely a card i would have liked. However there is a card in dominion allies that is similar and stronger than saboteur
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Holger

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2022, 07:49:37 pm »
+1

Navigator is weak powerwise and sifting isnít something that other cards donít do.

Trash at the risk of blowing up good stuff isnít something any other card does (well, Junk Dealer and Upgrade technically do but then you are actively gambling, having no junk in hand and only hoping to draw into junk) so Lookout is unique to some degree.
Cathedral also does this. Initially, its risk is lower than with Lookout since you can choose between 5 cards rather than 3, but unlike Lookout you can't stop "playing" it when the risk of trashing a good card becomes too high.
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Vengil

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2022, 06:41:22 am »
0

Hoping Lookout survives somehow; it's still one of my favorite Seaside cards.

It's also my favorite card... :'(
Please don't delete it!

Maybe remove:
- Navigator
- Explorer
- Embargo (obligatorily removed: it will save material in the box).
- Pearl Diver
- pirate ship
- Gost ship (too powerful?)

I don't want to lose any more cards. Not Lookout!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 07:23:40 am by Vengil »
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Holger

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2022, 07:13:25 am »
0

Honestly wharf should be removed. Itís too strong and does everything. If it didnít have the +buy it would still be super strong and worth it. It just gives too much, and if I had a time machine itís definitely one of 7 seaside cards Iíd rethink. And the second edition is kind of a time machine.

Also, I have a feeling 7 cards will be replaced and we get 2 extraó for a few reasons: seaside already has more blank cards, and if any of NV, island, or pirate ship are removed (incredibly likely that pirate ship is removed) the lack of Mats adds room for more new cards. We might even only lose 6 cards.

Right now Seaside has 300 physical cards. If it were going to get more cards, it would be in groups of 100. And I will tell you right now, that's not happening. Seaside will still be 300 cards. It might get cheaper, like Hinterlands is! But it also might not. We are in an inflationary period and board game margins are pretty thin I think.

Thanks for the information! So Seaside 2E can at most contain 27 kingdom cards (27*11=297, 28*11=308>300). This means that to get 9 new cards Donald has to remove 8 old ones (and there can be at most one VP card among the 27, e.g. Island).

I don't really see Seaside having that many duds that need to be removed, but of course I'd like 9 new and better Seaside cards. :D

FWIW, is the restriction to multiples of 100 physical cards due to packaging or printing issues? AFAIR, all big expansions have had an exact multiple of 100 cards (300, 400 or 500), but small expansions like Alchemists did not (150 cards).
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Dominionaer

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2022, 07:25:59 am »
+2

FWIW, is the restriction to multiples of 100 physical cards due to packaging or printing issues? AFAIR, all big expansions have had an exact multiple of 100 cards (300, 400 or 500), but small expansions like Alchemists did not (150 cards).

AFAIK Altenburg is printing 50 cards on one sheet.
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Holger

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2022, 07:27:47 am »
+2

Hoping Lookout survives somehow; it's still one of my favorite Seaside cards.

It's also my favorite card... :'(
Please don't delete it!

Maybe remove:
- Navigator
- Explorer
- Embargo (obligatorily removed: it will save material in the box).
 [...]
Embargo can easily be made to work without tokens: You just put the trashed Embargo card sideways under the target pile to indicate the curse penalty.
If RGG wants to save material, the Island mats can also be eliminated (just put Island's target under the Island card and keep it set aside for the rest of the game), as can the Pirate Ship mats if you switch to a different kind of "coin" tokens (to avoid confusing with Coffers when mixing expansions). But I suppose Pirate Ship will be removed anyway...
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Dominionaer

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2022, 07:43:21 am »
0

Embargo can easily be made to work without tokens: You just put the trashed Embargo card sideways under the target pile to indicate the curse penalty.
Question is, wether it then still counts as in Trash
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 07:44:27 am by Dominionaer »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2022, 05:06:37 pm »
+1

Really excited for this, especially since the duration cards in the post-Guilds sets have often been my favourites.

I hope Hinterlands 2E is in the pipeline. Like Seaside it also has enough blank space to fit another card. Of the early sets it's probably the one where Events make the most sense, and can be used to substitute cards like Cache and Ill Gotten Gains (freeing up more room for new ideas).

EDIT: Corrected a factual error
« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 02:13:46 pm by NoMoreFun »
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2022, 10:25:46 pm »
+1

I hope Hinterlands 2E is in the pipeline. Like Seaside it also has enough blank space to fit another card.

Only if you cut at least two of the three Victory cards.
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Oyvind

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2022, 04:52:19 am »
0

I agree with Erick, I believe Navigator and Pearl Diver might be saved, though they both should be among the first to go, but hopefully the same guys can be included in the artwork for some of the new cards, so that this wouldnít be a problem.

I also think they will add a kingdom card slot (going from 26 to 27), so eight will probably be removed. If thatís the case, I hope these are the ones that will leave:
- Cutpurse
- Embargo
- Explorer
- Merchant Ship
- Navigator
- Pearl Diver
- Pirate Ship
- Treasure Map

But I think these will leave:
- Embargo
- Explorer
- Island
- Merchant Ship
- Native Village
- Pirate Ship
- Sea Hag
- Treasure Map

Extra components like mats and tokens only useable by one card are elements Iím pretty certain will be removed, so thatís why I believe that Embargo, Island, Native Village and Pirate Ship all will be removed. Pirate Ship has the added confusion with the coin tokens, so thatís another strong argument for that particular card to be removed. Sea Hag will probably be removed for the same reasons that Saboteur was cut. That leaves three cards, and since Iím not seeing Navigator and Pearl Diver leave, I think Explorer, Merchant Ship and Treasure Map are the weakest ones and will be cut.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 07:50:22 am by Oyvind »
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2022, 10:50:30 am »
0

Hey I happen to like Iíll gotten gains. Itís my favorite treasure. Also you couldnít put embargo on the bottom of the pile it needs to be in the trash so I can use grave robber to obtain it again. There is more than 10 embargo tokens for the rare occasions you play it more than twice. Well they better tell us which cards are getting replaced soon, or otherwise there will be a huge riot on the forum and on Facebook over which cards are getting replaced. Either that or an actual war.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2022, 11:19:22 am »
0

Making lists is a cool idea. Here is mine for cards I predict will be removed, ordered from most to least confident:

- Lookout
- Navigator
- Sea Hag
- Ghost Ship
- Pirate Ship
- Merchant Ship
- Island
- Pearl Diver

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2022, 12:24:56 pm »
0

Interesting to speculate on which cards will be removed, because Seaside is in a different place from Base or Intrigue 1E.  In those sets, the removed cards were very much on the weak end.  In Seaside, there are a few strong cards that I could see subject to consideration (Wharf, Ambassador, Ghost Ship) but such powerful cards tend to have a lot of fans.  I'm guessing they're here to stay.

I think DXV has said that Navigator and Pearl Diver can't be removed because the art depicts real people, but perhaps the situation changed?  And what about the Island/Pirate Ship/Native Village triptych?  It's neat but I suppose not strictly necessary to keep them together.

Anyway, my best guesses are:
Navigator
Pearl Diver
Pirate Ship
Merchant Ship
Embargo
Island
Explorer
Treasure Map

I also checked with the rankings to see if they match up with the lowest ranking cards.  Thunderminion's bottom 8 are nearly the same, but Island is swapped out for Treasury.  Admittedly, I wouldn't miss Treasury, it's just not that impactful of a card.  In the current card Glicko rankings, Island is swapped out for Cutpurse.  Another one I wouldn't particularly miss.

Of the above cards, I would most miss Treasure Map.  And, I really like Embargo but I would love if it were redesigned.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2022, 01:04:08 pm »
+2

Also you couldnít put embargo on the bottom of the pile it needs to be in the trash so I can use grave robber to obtain it again.
This already doesn't work. Embargo is a 2, Graverobber only gains between 3 and 6.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2022, 01:36:49 pm »
+7

"Seaside" already has two 'e's in it  :o
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2022, 02:02:52 pm »
+3

I wonder if Lookout is simply changed to "You may" and its costs get increased to $4. It is a fine card as it is and I would feel sad to see it go completetly.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2022, 03:36:37 pm »
+6

I'm there for you guys with the tough answers.

Seaside:

The biggest thing here is, the set has two cards that hand out junk that cost less than $5. Cards like that tend to dominate games, since people buy them turns 1-2 and start playing them fast, so it's bad to have two of them in one set, even though when they're in the same game the one defends against the other. I just don't want heavy-Seaside games to always have one of those cards. So either Ambassador or Sea Hag should be a more powerful card for $5. Ambassador looks more innocent so probably I would change Sea Hag.

Lookout is the dud of the set. The problem is, some people are terrified of trashing a good card with it. At the same time trashing bad cards looks less exciting to some players. And as a trasher it's not exceptional. So the overall package is a card that a lot of players don't want, but that some experienced players realize is okay but not special. I could instead have some other card more people liked.

Originally the set did not have tokens. Embargo put itself on a pile; Pirate Ship kept one treasure per attack and counted them; Pirate Ship and Native Village did have mats, but they were card-sized (when that changed I got to add Haven back in). If I had known the set would have counters, I would have tried to get more use out of them, just as I made two more VP token cards to go with Monument.

Outpost could be simpler. Ideally it would have you discard 2 at the start of your next turn, rather than having the wonky Clean-up-modifying effect it has. There was not enough time between when I realized that and when the card had to be finalized.

Again some people complain about various other cards but I am having none of it. Pirate Ship is weak but I don't think it should be stronger. I like Treasure Map as is. Fishing Village and Wharf are strong engine-enablers and well we are talking good times there. Pearl Diver and Navigator are not prized, but they look reasonable to me, and as I have said many times, if I made all cards better by making them maximally complex, the game would have no players. Explorer is fine, why do people even complain about Explorer. They can't all be the best $5 ever.

Based on this, I think we can confidently predict Sea Hag and Lookout are dead. Navigator and Pirate Ship seem likely, too. After that I'd guess Pearl Diver and Treasure Map.

Explorer is fine, why do people even complain about Explorer. They can't all be the best $5 ever.

We're holding you to that, Donald!
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2022, 04:02:17 pm »
+6

That's DXV's opinion like 10 years ago though.  I too had opinions 10 years ago, I wouldn't like to be held to account for those myself.

On the other hand, DXV has said similar stuff more recently, 2 years ago.  In response to the question "What cards would you remove if later sets had an actual 2E overhaul?"

Quote from: Donald_X
Seaside: Pearl Diver, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Embargo, Lookout. The first three are duds; Sea Hag because I don't like having two cheap junking attacks in one set and would rather take out Sea Hag than Ambassador, plus some people don't like that it has no upside, just attack; Embargo is a dud but also I get to not include Embargo tokens; Lookout is fine but a lot of casual players don't like it. With any 2E I would try to make better versions of cards that left that had merit to the premise or flavor, and would try to get more use out of extra components. So here, I'd have maybe 3 cards that used the coin tokens, and a different Pirate Ship. I wanted to do a Seaside 2E; it didn't happen because Jay didn't want to ask Valerie if we could replace Harem and give her a new card in Intrigue 2E, and well Seaside has two cards depicting people, Pearl Diver and Navigator. Plus Jay had boxes of Embargo tokens sitting around. It still might happen someday; the usual problem is, it's competing with all other projects.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2022, 04:28:48 pm »
+4

Navigator is weak powerwise and sifting isnít something that other cards donít do.

Trash at the risk of blowing up good stuff isnít something any other card does (well, Junk Dealer and Upgrade technically do but then you are actively gambling, having no junk in hand and only hoping to draw into junk) so Lookout is unique to some degree.

Coppersmith also did something no other card does  :(

Not really though after Bank. And Bank has a more reasonable power level, too.

While coppersmith and bank have similar uses, Coppersmith is really focused on copper and when it works it makes you think in a different way than the usual "just thin your deck as soon as possible and throw all your coppers away".
Bank can work in any treasurish deck.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2022, 04:30:45 pm »
0

I hope Hinterlands 2E is in the pipeline. Like Seaside it also has enough blank space to fit another card.

Only if you cut at least two of the three Victory cards.

Maybe Farmland but definitely not Silk Road and Tunnel.
(I straight up misremembered how many blanks were in Hinterlands and didn't check, well called out)
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2022, 04:35:51 pm »
+1

It makes me mad, but the more I think about it, the more I am confident that Island will be removed. Now that distant lands exists, now that there are different ways to exile province, Island is not unique anymore. Adding the facts that it allows to remove a matÖ

It's completely irrationnal, it's only a game and only one kingdom card among a hundred of, but I'm really sad  :-[
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2022, 04:55:00 pm »
0

Based on this, I think we can confidently predict Sea Hag and Lookout are dead.

Yeah, this was exactly the quote I had in memory. I knew he had singled out lookout as bad, I just didn't know where.

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2022, 10:23:04 pm »
+2

Since I just play with physical copies, we don't actually need to drop any of the cards just because they get removed from 2E.  So I asked my husband which he would be willing to drop if they were removed.

His list: Haven, Pearl Diver, Cutpurse, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Explorer, Wharf

My list: Pearl Diver, Ambassador, Navigator, Cutpurse, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Wharf

Although, I think it also might matter what they get replaced with.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2022, 12:21:24 am »
0

Since I just play with physical copies, we don't actually need to drop any of the cards just because they get removed from 2E.  So I asked my husband which he would be willing to drop if they were removed.

His list: Haven, Pearl Diver, Cutpurse, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Explorer, Wharf

My list: Pearl Diver, Ambassador, Navigator, Cutpurse, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Wharf

Although, I think it also might matter what they get replaced with.
You would actually want to drop wharf? why?

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2022, 03:36:14 am »
0

Quote from: Donald_X
Seaside: Pearl Diver, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Embargo, Lookout. The first three are duds; Sea Hag because I don't like having two cheap junking attacks in one set and would rather take out Sea Hag than Ambassador, plus some people don't like that it has no upside, just attack; Embargo is a dud but also I get to not include Embargo tokens; Lookout is fine but a lot of casual players don't like it. With any 2E I would try to make better versions of cards that left that had merit to the premise or flavor, and would try to get more use out of extra components. So here, I'd have maybe 3 cards that used the coin tokens, and a different Pirate Ship. I wanted to do a Seaside 2E; it didn't happen because Jay didn't want to ask Valerie if we could replace Harem and give her a new card in Intrigue 2E, and well Seaside has two cards depicting people, Pearl Diver and Navigator. Plus Jay had boxes of Embargo tokens sitting around. It still might happen someday; the usual problem is, it's competing with all other projects.

Thanks, trivialknot! I remember reading this, but I couldnít remember the specifics. Now I believe the cut cards will be these six plus Island and Native Village. It gets rid of all the player mats and tokens while removing the six cards most recently mentioned in public by DXV as cards he would like to remove. It all makes sense. :)
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trivialknot

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2022, 01:36:06 pm »
+1

You would actually want to drop wharf? why?
Great question.  While I understand that stronger cards are generally more popular, because you get to do bigger things in games that include them, we tend not to like them as much, because they're centralizing, and lead to situations where one player unlocked the big thing and the other player has to sit around and give a good hard think about resigning.  King's Court is one of our most common vetoes for that reason.  Wharf, eh.  I'd keep it but if DXV decides to remove it I'd go along with his judgment on that one.

We've been playing for over a decade, and are aware of the competitive scene, but don't actually play online.  So we're sort of casual players but also not.  And for what it's worth some stuff that's relatively fast online is slower offline (e.g. shuffling, tracking large action chains), and vice versa (e.g. attack and reaction effects).
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2022, 03:32:09 pm »
0

Something I've wondered for a while is why Wharf has +buy instead of Merchant Ship. I'm guessing donald already answered this at some point somewhere.

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2022, 03:59:42 pm »
+6

Something I've wondered for a while is why Wharf has +buy instead of Merchant Ship. I'm guessing donald already answered this at some point somewhere.

From the secret history of Seaside: "Wharf: The original version didn't have the +1 Buy. It got that to compare more favorably to Merchant Ship."  I think back in the day the playtesters vastly underrated draw and overrated +.

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2022, 04:50:53 pm »
+10

That is pretty funny because if Merchant Ship had the +buy, Wharf would definitely still be the stronger card.

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2022, 09:28:03 pm »
+2

Given that there are 9 new cards, and there will be an update pack product, I'm assuming the update pack will contain an even 100 cards. Each non-Victory card requires 11 cards, and if there are 9 of those, that uses up 99 cards, for 1 blank. There's not room for a single new Victory card. Based on that, I am predicting Island won't be cut and remains the single alt VP card in the set.

As Seaside currently has enough blanks for one more non-Victory card, it's logical that 8 cards would be cut from the set.

Here are my predictions of what stays and what goes:

100% chance of staying:
Caravan
Fishing Village
Salvager
Warehouse
Bazaar
Tactician
Lighthouse
Ghost Ship
Ambassador
Outpost
Wharf
Smugglers
Haven

Probably staying:
Island (errata to not reference a mat)
Native Village (but what about the mat?)
Treasure Map

Take it or leave it:
Merchant Ship
Treasury (replaced with a Hireling for +$1?)

Probably leaving:
Navigator (art issue?)
Pearl Diver (art issue?)
Explorer
Cutpurse

100% chance of leaving:
Pirate Ship
Embargo
Sea Hag
Lookout

If Pearl Diver and Navigator both have to stay, then probably Merchant Ship and Treasury are gone instead. If Native Village has to go (which would be a big shame), then either Explorer or Cutpurse stays.

Regardless of what is cut, I can't wait to see the new cards! Seaside was my first expansion, and it was good times. The attacks are brutal, the swings are big, but that's all part of the charm. Despite the duds, there are quite a lot of unique concepts in this set. The new cards in Base and Intrigue added a lot of life to those sets, and I'm looking forward to breaking out Seaside again with some new cards.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2022, 01:59:39 am »
+2

Had a go at rewording/reworking cards to avoid mats and tokens.



Embargo works very differently with Throne Room variants and Lurker. It would probably also need rulebook clarification about where the Embargoes go at the end of the game (most sensible would be they don't go into anyone's deck).

Pirate Ship interacts differently with cards that count the cards/treasures in your deck, and Treasurer.

I think Island and Native Village are functionally the same.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2022, 08:55:49 am »
0

Was there a post from Donald talking about the potential for an Embargo that uses the card itself instead of tokens or something? I've seen that mentioned a few times in this thread, as if people just expect it to happen.

Same question in regards to removing the Native Village / Island / Pirate Ship mats.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2022, 09:07:44 am »
+3

Was there a post from Donald talking about the potential for an Embargo that uses the card itself instead of tokens or something? I've seen that mentioned a few times in this thread, as if people just expect it to happen.

Same question in regards to removing the Native Village / Island / Pirate Ship mats.

The idea of embargo using itself instead of tokens comes from the secret history, I'm not sure if there's anything more recent to suggest that. Also just a general move away from having extra components that are only used for one card.

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #59 on: February 02, 2022, 09:39:29 am »
0

On the Island one, is it ok to leave out the "return them to your deck at the end of the game" clause?

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2022, 10:02:45 am »
+2

On the Island one, is it ok to leave out the "return them to your deck at the end of the game" clause?

Not only ok, but would be a nice improvement. That clause has caused a fair amount of rules questions to be asked, with people asking about cards still set aside by Haven, etc, at the end of the game.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2022, 04:07:49 pm »
+2

there is a flipside to the "no mats" prediction: you can fit 6 mats on a sheet. While a decrease in number of mats would be neat, having a single split mat (like we've got in renaissance) for NV + Island seems doable, and cuts it down to one piece of cardboard insert.

Also
Given that there are 9 new cards, and there will be an update pack product, I'm assuming the update pack will contain an even 100 cards. Each non-Victory card requires 11 cards, and if there are 9 of those, that uses up 99 cards, for 1 blank. There's not room for a single new Victory card. Based on that, I am predicting Island won't be cut and remains the single alt VP card in the set.

that just means one isn't added; does not mean island doesn't get the axe.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2022, 10:03:36 pm »
+2


Removed bace cards.
1. Chancellor 2. Woodcutter 3. Thief 4. Feast 5. Spy 6. Adventurer
Added cards bace game
1. Harbinger 2. Merchant 3. Vassal 4. Poacher 5. Bandit 6. Sentry 7. Artisan
Removed cards intrigue
1. Secret chamber 2. Great hall 3. Copper smith 4. Scout 5. Saboteur 6. Tribute
Added cards intrigue
1. Lurker 2. Diplomat 3. Mill 4. Secret passage 5. Courtier 6. Patrol 7. Replace

Even though the ratio was the same for these thereís now guarantee that 8 cards are getting removed maybe only some are getting removed and a few others changed. And who knows maybe because exile does exist maybe island and native village will be changed to exile?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2022, 10:16:26 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2022, 05:37:23 am »
+3

Even though the ratio was the same for these thereís now guarantee that 8 cards are getting removed maybe only some are getting removed and a few others changed.

We know that we're getting 9 new cards.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2022, 06:21:22 am »
0

Quote from: Donald_X
Seaside: Pearl Diver, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Embargo, Lookout. The first three are duds; Sea Hag because I don't like having two cheap junking attacks in one set and would rather take out Sea Hag than Ambassador, plus some people don't like that it has no upside, just attack; Embargo is a dud but also I get to not include Embargo tokens; Lookout is fine but a lot of casual players don't like it. With any 2E I would try to make better versions of cards that left that had merit to the premise or flavor, and would try to get more use out of extra components. So here, I'd have maybe 3 cards that used the coin tokens, and a different Pirate Ship. I wanted to do a Seaside 2E; it didn't happen because Jay didn't want to ask Valerie if we could replace Harem and give her a new card in Intrigue 2E, and well Seaside has two cards depicting people, Pearl Diver and Navigator. Plus Jay had boxes of Embargo tokens sitting around. It still might happen someday; the usual problem is, it's competing with all other projects.

Thanks, trivialknot! I remember reading this, but I couldnít remember the specifics. Now I believe the cut cards will be these six plus Island and Native Village. It gets rid of all the player mats and tokens while removing the six cards most recently mentioned in public by DXV as cards he would like to remove. It all makes sense. :)

Iím modifying my guess. I think (and hope) Native Village will stay, but without a board. Iím thinking a sideways card like that for Young Witch (thereís room for one additional card, and I think, as Iíve already stated, that they will get rid of the boards and tokens for this expansion). The replacement cut will be Merchant Ship, i think. Itís, IMHO, the worst remaining card, by far. So my modified list of eight cuts will be:

- Embargo
- Island
- Lookout
- Merchant Ship
- Navigator
- Pearl Diver
- Pirate Ship
- Sea Hag
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2022, 03:09:36 pm »
+5

My idea for a better Pirate Ship is to combine it with Cutpurse:

Privateer
Action - Attack - $4
Choose one: Each other player discards a Treasure or reveals they can't, and if any player discarded a Treasure, take a Pirate Token, or +$1 per Pirate Token you have.
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flynd

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2022, 03:36:24 am »
+5

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2022, 05:14:12 am »
0

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Very surprised Merchant Ship survived, especially if they don't buff it in any way. I expected Explorer to be the card that held on even though it's often thought of as bad.

I don't think it will be too much of a stretch to give Lookout optional trashing and Cutpurse a "4 or more cards in hand" limit on who can be attacked by it.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 05:16:27 am by NoMoreFun »
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Davio

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2022, 07:11:20 am »
0

I'm not sad to see Sea Hag go, in general, cards which don't provide any benefit to you, but only hurt your opponents, are not fun.
That's why Saboteur had to go as well.

Island and Native Village can keep existing without mats. Island could be retrofitted to exile cards instead, it wouldn't change the design of the card that much.
Native Island could be printed without a special mat, it could just say "set aside". Now that we have Inheritance and Royal Galley the "set aside area" can be an area which actually exists.

Pirate Ship could be retrofitted to work with favors instead of its own tokens.
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2022, 07:20:45 am »
0


The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag

If true, I score 5/8, but wrong on Lookout... I guess people change their minds

grrgrrgrr

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #70 on: March 06, 2022, 08:02:53 am »
+1

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

In this topic, SmilingTeethMayBite points out that there is an inconsitency in the photo, so this photo might be incorrect altogether.

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Very surprised Merchant Ship survived, especially if they don't buff it in any way. I expected Explorer to be the card that held on even though it's often thought of as bad.

I don't think it will be too much of a stretch to give Lookout optional trashing and Cutpurse a "4 or more cards in hand" limit on who can be attacked by it.

It is not a stretch as all to have Explorer go, as Sculptor and falconer make this card look incredibly stupid (though I guess Harem is in the same boat, with Conquest existing.).
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silverspawn

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2022, 08:15:10 am »
+1

It is not a stretch as all to have Explorer go, as Sculptor and falconer make this card look incredibly stupid (though I guess Harem is in the same boat, with Conquest existing.).

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2022, 09:11:59 am »
+2

But what about Moat?

Holger

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2022, 10:52:30 am »
0

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I've downloaded the ASS Handelskatalog which is given as a source for the BGG image, but it shows another Seaside rulebook image on p. 96 than the BGG image does. I can quite clearly identify Ambassador, Pirate Ship and Sea Hag on the right-hand side of the ASS Handelskatalog rulebook. So I would wait for a more reliable source of the list of removed cards...
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Oyvind

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #74 on: March 06, 2022, 06:15:06 pm »
0

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I've downloaded the ASS Handelskatalog which is given as a source for the BGG image, but it shows another Seaside rulebook image on p. 96 than the BGG image does. I can quite clearly identify Ambassador, Pirate Ship and Sea Hag on the right-hand side of the ASS Handelskatalog rulebook. So I would wait for a more reliable source of the list of removed cards...

Thatís an image of the first edition, though (with only 26 kingdom piles).
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Oyvind

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #75 on: March 06, 2022, 06:46:19 pm »
0

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside
Ö
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
Ö
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Iím not sure I agree. There seems to be 10 white action cards and 14 orange duraction cards in total. I think the three cards on the pictured right hand side of the rulebook are Island (at the top), a yellow treasure card and a blue reaction card. The rulebook seems to group the cards by color.
If Iím correct, the nine new cards should be 1 white action card, 6 orange durations cards, 1 yellow treasure card and 1 blue reaction card.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 11:31:18 am by Oyvind »
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Holger

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2022, 04:11:01 am »
0

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I've downloaded the ASS Handelskatalog which is given as a source for the BGG image, but it shows another Seaside rulebook image on p. 96 than the BGG image does. I can quite clearly identify Ambassador, Pirate Ship and Sea Hag on the right-hand side of the ASS Handelskatalog rulebook. So I would wait for a more reliable source of the list of removed cards...

Thatís an image of the first edition, though (with only 26 kingdom piles).

I suppose you're right. The German text in the ASS catalogue also doesn't mention replaced cards, unlike the text in the BGG image.

But it's still strange that the BGG image is different from the one in the so-called source. It's conceivable that ASS changed its trading catalogue since January without changing its URL, but why would they revert the image from 2nd edition Seaside to 1st edition?  ???
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Oyvind

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2022, 09:06:49 am »
+1

Based on the following image that shows all the 2E cards in the rulebook, it can be deduced which cards have been removed:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6638068/dominion-seaside

The removed cards are: Ambassador, Embargo, Explorer, Ghost Ship, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag
And the new cards include 2 (white) action cards and 7 duraction cards
The removal of Embargo and Pirate Ship means that 2E comes without any tokens. But the rule book still shows the Island and Native Village mats.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/t6ehij/navigator_removed_in_seaside_2e_confirmed/hzbnjxa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I've downloaded the ASS Handelskatalog which is given as a source for the BGG image, but it shows another Seaside rulebook image on p. 96 than the BGG image does. I can quite clearly identify Ambassador, Pirate Ship and Sea Hag on the right-hand side of the ASS Handelskatalog rulebook. So I would wait for a more reliable source of the list of removed cards...

Thatís an image of the first edition, though (with only 26 kingdom piles).

I suppose you're right. The German text in the ASS catalogue also doesn't mention replaced cards, unlike the text in the BGG image.

But it's still strange that the BGG image is different from the one in the so-called source. It's conceivable that ASS changed its trading catalogue since January without changing its URL, but why would they revert the image from 2nd edition Seaside to 1st edition?  ???

Iím not in the know, but my guess is that someone, perhaps Rio Grande Games, reacted to the fact that the catalogue spoiled their coming release and demanded that the catalogue was reverted back to itís former state. The BGG image also mentions that this is the 2nd edition, while stating that the 1st edition is sold out. Thereís no mention of any editions in the current catalogue, just that Seasideís available again in April after being temporarily out of stock.

I think the BGG image is legit, and Iím both a bit saddened and very enthused by the news. Some personal favorites are removed, but Iím thrilled to see what they come up with of new cards. Only one attack card remains, and Cutpurse is definitely not the strongest one. If Iím correct in assuming that weíll finally get a reaction card in this set, having just Cutpurse as an attack card seems very strange.

Even though Iím sad to see a couple of cool cards go, I think the most important thing to keep the game vibrant and strong is to refine balance and cut down on time-consuming actions or difficult wordings.
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Jeebus

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2022, 11:44:18 am »
+7

I'm amazed if it's really true that Ambassador and Ghost Ship are being excised. Both are strong, unique, fun and interesting cards, and I haven't heard many people criticize them.

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2022, 07:02:39 pm »
+2

I'm amazed if it's really true that Ambassador and Ghost Ship are being excised. Both are strong, unique, fun and interesting cards, and I haven't heard many people criticize them.

Nothing fun about Ghost Ship imo. good riddance.

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2022, 07:03:48 pm »
+2

I'm amazed if it's really true that Ambassador and Ghost Ship are being excised. Both are strong, unique, fun and interesting cards, and I haven't heard many people criticize them.

Nothing fun about Ghost Ship imo. good riddance.

pff you guys have fun when you play dominion?
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Vengil

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2022, 08:03:41 pm »
+4

I am very satisfied with the cards removed.
- Lookout is not removed. This was my favorite card from this expansion.
- Ghost Ship was very unbalanced. I suspected that this card would go away.
- Ambassador was slowing down the game. the creator had already said so. He didn't like this card.
- I think we will have better cards instead of the other removed cards.


I hope there will be a French translation again. The latest translated expansion is Adventure... :(
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 06:02:12 am by Vengil »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2022, 10:38:24 pm »
+1

Although itís possible that the photo is legitimate, Iím still going to wait until Donald releases the information on what was removed. And what was added. Until Donald releases the information Iím not going to assume those are the cards going. Although I am a little surprised to see ghost ship and ambassador kicking the bucket if that photo is legitimate. And I wouldnít mind seeing those both go as long as they added a couple of new attack cards. Considering that are so many new attack cards in the dominion Allies expansion, itís not unreasonable to assume they add more attack cards to seaside, especially if cutpurse is the only one that survives. It makes lighthouse almost obsolete if cutpurse is the only attack card.

Renaissance has at least 2, guilds and alchemy only had 2 each. Prosperity and empires and hinterlands have 3 each. Cornucopia and intrigue and menagerie and seaside currently have 4 each. Nocturne has 6.  Adventures technically has 7. And Allies has at least 7 attacks from what the teaser said. With dark ages having the most attack cards. If you include the knights, one of which is two attacks. Itís at least 8 attack cards. If you still count the knights as one attack card they still have 7 attack cards. Now of course Iím including cards that have attack In the name. Iím not including possession or Iíll gotten gains for instance. Still with alchemy and guilds being the smallest expansions they at least have 2 attack cards. Which means itís reasonable too assume they will add at least one new attack card to seaside. Especially if only cutpurse survives. Still Iím going to wait until Donald announces the cards removed and the new cards added.
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Holger

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #83 on: March 08, 2022, 06:18:04 am »
0


Although itís possible that the photo is legitimate, Iím still going to wait until Donald releases the information on what was removed. And what was added. Until Donald releases the information Iím not going to assume those are the cards going. Although I am a little surprised to see ghost ship and ambassador kicking the bucket if that photo is legitimate. And I wouldnít mind seeing those both go as long as they added a couple of new attack cards.

Yes, it would be surprising if Donald now removed strong cards. The cards removed from base game and Intrigue were mostly very weak and rarely bought, after all. OTOH, there aren't 8 super-weak cards in Seaside, it was already much more balanced than base game 1st edition.

If Ambassador is removed, I would like Donald to add a similar but more balanced version of the concept. E.g. increasing the price to $4 and letting it trash cards instead of returning them to the supply would already greatly reduce the "Estate tennis" at the start of the game...
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Oyvind

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #84 on: March 08, 2022, 06:53:16 am »
+1

Although itís possible that the photo is legitimate, Iím still going to wait until Donald releases the information on what was removed. And what was added. Until Donald releases the information Iím not going to assume those are the cards going. Although I am a little surprised to see ghost ship and ambassador kicking the bucket if that photo is legitimate. And I wouldnít mind seeing those both go as long as they added a couple of new attack cards. Considering that are so many new attack cards in the dominion Allies expansion, itís not unreasonable to assume they add more attack cards to seaside, especially if cutpurse is the only one that survives. It makes lighthouse almost obsolete if cutpurse is the only attack card.

Renaissance has at least 2, guilds and alchemy only had 2 each. Prosperity and empires and hinterlands have 3 each. Cornucopia and intrigue and menagerie and seaside currently have 4 each. Nocturne has 6.  Adventures technically has 7. And Allies has at least 7 attacks from what the teaser said. With dark ages having the most attack cards. If you include the knights, one of which is two attacks. Itís at least 8 attack cards. If you still count the knights as one attack card they still have 7 attack cards. Now of course Iím including cards that have attack In the name. Iím not including possession or Iíll gotten gains for instance. Still with alchemy and guilds being the smallest expansions they at least have 2 attack cards. Which means itís reasonable too assume they will add at least one new attack card to seaside. Especially if only cutpurse survives. Still Iím going to wait until Donald announces the cards removed and the new cards added.

Would be nice to do thisÖ
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 06:55:03 am by Oyvind »
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Vengil

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #85 on: March 08, 2022, 09:05:28 am »
0

Would be nice to do thisÖ

Why hide removed cards?
I did it. But I don't know why. ^^'
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Oyvind

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #86 on: March 08, 2022, 09:17:12 am »
+1

Would be nice to do thisÖ

Why hide removed cards?
I did it. But I don't know why. ^^'

Itís a spoiler. People might want to join in on the conversation about Seaside 2E and speculating without necessarily wanting to know the specifics before the official release. I didnít mean to be singling anyone out, I just felt that they didnít consider this aspect, but I see now that my post may have appeared to be a bit rude. That wasnít my intention, so Iím sorry. :) I know we donít know the authenticity of the image for sure, but itís probably the best source we have until the official announcement(s).
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 09:18:14 am by Oyvind »
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King Leon

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #87 on: March 20, 2022, 07:09:38 am »
+3

It seems that there was another leak on the website of ASS Altenburger on Thursday here: https://www.spielkarten.com/uncategorized/dominion-seaside-2-edition/
Link to the image file in full size: https://www.spielkarten.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/NP22111_SM_Dominion_HPNews_Sea_1080x1080.jpg

Three existing cards are confirmed.
Wharf, Native Village, Island

Two new cards were revealed.

Piratin (female form of Pirate)                                   
Type: Action - Duration - Reaction                         
Cost: unknown (covered by another card)
(Card text undecipherable, probably something with         
Zu Beginn deines Zuges nimm dir eine Geldkarte, die bis zu $6 kostet auf deinen Nachziehstapel.
(At the begin of your turn gain a Treasure card costing up to $6 on top of your deck.))
---
?? (Second part undecipherable)                   

-------------------------------------------------------

?? (Name undecipherable)               
Type: Treasure - Duration                     
Cost: $3                     
(Card text undecipherable, probably: Jetzt und zu Beginn deines nšchsten Zuges. / Now and at the begin of your next turn.)
1 $         
+1 Buy                                   
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 11:01:29 am by King Leon »
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J Reggie

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #88 on: March 20, 2022, 08:42:22 am »
0

The second one is a Treasure-Duration, which is cool.

King Leon

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #89 on: March 20, 2022, 12:14:49 pm »
0

The second one is a Treasure-Duration, which is cool.
I guess, that card will be the replacement for Lighthouse            .
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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2022, 05:51:46 pm »
+3

As someone who hasn't played much since the iso era, hearing that Ambassador might be gone makes me a little sad. It was one of the most interesting and game-defining cards of that era. Learning that returning two coppers is better than returning one estate was for me a highly counter-intuitive insight (despite knowing it's good to trash coppers in general).

It also would typically transform games into highly interactive tug-of-wars, which has the merit of being different from the usual way games would play out, which was good for variety. Though that might have been partly because it fit two important roles (trasher and junker) into a single kingdom slot, which was more important when dud cards were more frequent.
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Oyvind

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Re: Seaside 2E Announced
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2022, 06:44:25 pm »
0

It seems that there was another leak on the website of ASS Altenburger on Thursday here: https://www.spielkarten.com/uncategorized/dominion-seaside-2-edition/
Link to the image file in full size: https://www.spielkarten.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/NP22111_SM_Dominion_HPNews_Sea_1080x1080.jpg

Three existing cards are confirmed.
Wharf, Native Village, Island

Two new cards were revealed.

Piratin (female form of Pirate)                                   
Type: Action - Duration - Reaction                         
Cost: unknown (covered by another card)
(Card text undecipherable, probably something with         
Zu Beginn deines Zuges nimm dir eine Geldkarte, die bis zu $6 kostet auf deinen Nachziehstapel.
(At the begin of your turn gain a Treasure card costing up to $6 on top of your deck.))
---
?? (Second part undecipherable)                   

-------------------------------------------------------

?? (Name undecipherable)               
Type: Treasure - Duration                     
Cost: $3                     
(Card text undecipherable, probably: Jetzt und zu Beginn deines nšchsten Zuges. / Now and at the begin of your next turn.)
1 $         
+1 Buy                                   


Even though both these cards are durations, it seems like I was correct in suggesting that this set will finally have both a treasure and a reaction. Iím looking so forward to this updated set!
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