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### AuthorTopic: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)  (Read 2660 times)

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#### Mahowrath

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##### Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« on: January 07, 2022, 09:29:21 pm »
+6

Another one of my fancard ideas, trying to do a duration attack, was to have a singular attack card on the table that gets played, leaving it there:

Dragon hoard could probably have a type or something that implies the existence of the Dragon?

The idea being that by keeping the attack on the non-duration card, the attack remains moat-able at the time of execution.

This week's contest: Design a duration card pile (or Project) and an attack card to go with it, that gets played leaving it there.
- The attack should have a reason for not being a part of the card/project text; likely for being called on a future turn.
- Having multiple associated attacks is permitted, but let's not go crazy: I'm not looking for a hexes pile.
- You may play with the mechanic - for instance, the attack card could start in the trash or the supply. I'm happy so long as a durationy something plays a non-durationy something For Reasons.

I won't have much time to judge next weekend, so contest will end around 10am UTC Jan 17th
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 09:43:16 pm by Mahowrath »
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#### mxdata

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2022, 12:15:33 am »
0

Another one of my fancard ideas, trying to do a duration attack, was to have a singular attack card on the table that gets played, leaving it there:

Dragon hoard could probably have a type or something that implies the existence of the Dragon?

The idea being that by keeping the attack on the non-duration card, the attack remains moat-able at the time of execution.

This week's contest: Design a duration card pile (or Project) and an attack card to go with it, that gets played leaving it there.
- The attack should have a reason for not being a part of the card/project text; likely for being called on a future turn.
- Having multiple associated attacks is permitted, but let's not go crazy: I'm not looking for a hexes pile.
- You may play with the mechanic - for instance, the attack card could start in the trash or the supply. I'm happy so long as a durationy something plays a non-durationy something For Reasons.

I won't have much time to judge next weekend, so contest will end around 10am UTC Jan 17th

I'm a little confused. What is the difference between this and simply adding Dragon's text to Dragon Hoard?  I mean, other than saving space on the card?
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#### Mahowrath

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2022, 12:31:37 am »
+1

I'm a little confused. What is the difference between this and simply adding Dragon's text to Dragon Hoard?  I mean, other than saving space on the card?

The difference is, that Dragon Hoard would become an attack. So if a player has moat in hand when DH is played, or a lighthouse in play; then any time the attack option is chosen, it never affects that player for the rest of the game.
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#### jakav

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2022, 09:53:50 pm »
+1

I was trying to find out how to host images without Imgur and apparently you can host the images on PostImages.org Trello. It's not very easy to figure out how to size the images. The suggestion to see what other people did by quoting them helped a lot.

Anyway, I wanted to try making a pseudo-traveler line, except it works in a chain of playing. It appears that this is a really interesting mechanic. It looks very different. The theme for Farm is other people have to pay for the food, the +1 Card.

Feedback is welcome and appreciated. I will probably be changing these. Edit: Made card actually appear and fixed them slightly. PM me if they are not showing up, I don't know if they are.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 05:11:46 pm by jakav »
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#### Gubump

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2022, 10:25:31 pm »
0

I was trying to find out how to host images without Imgur and apparently you can host the images on Google Drive, with some effort. It's not very easy to figure out how to size the images and all of that. The suggestion to see what other people did by quoting them helped a lot.

Anyway, I wanted to try making a pseudo-traveler line, except it works in a chain of playing. It appears that this is a really interesting mechanic. It looks different. I know the text does not fit the theme for Farm well, but I don't know what else to put there.

Feedback is welcome and appreciated. I will be changing these sometime next week, for power level and other reasons, but I don't have time now.

I'm not seeing any images.
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#### LastFootnote

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2022, 10:28:30 pm »
0

I'm not seeing any images.

Me either.
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#### jakav

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2022, 10:33:40 pm »
0

Hmm, might have to do it different. It was working for a second, now it is not working for me either. I will try fixing it later. Edit: Fixed
« Last Edit: January 09, 2022, 12:28:47 pm by jakav »
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#### spineflu

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2022, 02:26:46 pm »
+2

personally, i recommend trello for hosting your images. helps you keep them organized afterwards too.

Quote
Savings • \$5 • Action - Duration - Command
+1 Coffers
At the start of your next turn, take +1 Coffers from Panic.
If you cannot, play Panic leaving it there.
-
Setup: Place 4 Coin tokens per player on Panic, which is set aside next to the Supply.
Quote
Panic • \$0* • Attack
Each other player discards down to 2 cards in hand, then gains a Horse to their Hand.

(This is not in the Supply.)

Panic, as an attack, is halfway between legionaire and minion. Savings is not the strongest Coffer generation but it's capable, and is stronger than Villain when that hits. Usually. I think.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2022, 02:34:29 pm by spineflu »
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#### Erick648

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2022, 04:15:53 pm »
+4

Warlord
\$5 Action - Duration
Each other player reveals a card from their hand. You may gain a copy of one of the revealed cards to your hand.
At the start of your next turn, play an Attack card from your Tavern mat.

Setup: Each player puts an Enforcer on their Tavern mat.

Enforcer
\$0* Action - Attack - Reserve
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
Put this on your Tavern mat.
(This is not in the Supply.)

I wanted the Attack to synergize with the Duration in some way.  Here, they create a dilemma for your opponent: Discard your bad cards and risk only having good cards to reveal to Warlord, or keep a bad card in hand to thwart an opponent's Warlord.  I don't think it's overly likely to get political, at least not any more than, say, Governor or even Advisor (which I've used politically at least once).  In games with other attacks, Enforcer can add them to your mat as other options for Warlord.  They don't stay there, though, since that might be too powerful with certain Attacks.  When matting anything other than Attack or Reserve cards, Enforcer acts as pseudo-trashing, which may make you more willing to gain a Copper with Warlord.

In multiplayer, it's harder to stop the Warlord from getting a good card, and Warlord becomes more powerful.  I considered having Warlord only affect the player to your left to prevent this, but that makes it more political (since one player can control Warlord's options and is the only one who can stop Warlord by keeping junk in hand when Enforcer is played), and creates the "Smuggler problem" for the Warlord player where being seated to the correct side of someone who is pursuing the same strategy as you gives you an advantage.  I didn't make Warlord an Attack because revealing a single card of your choice from your hand isn't really harmful, similar to Chariot Race, and because making it an Attack might make people think that Moating Warlord also blocked Enforcer.  This originally had its own mat, but I thought, why not use the existing mat?  Doing so adds a synergy with Miser and Wine Merchant (and, to a lesser extent, other Reserves), which is fun.

EDIT: Added text of the cards in case anyone can't see the images.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 11:14:27 pm by Erick648 »
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#### exfret

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2022, 06:25:09 pm »
+3

Hope the contest is still open!

Notes: I wonder how Sniper compares to militia. It requires 3 plays to be a legionary, and even then requires the opponents to not choose +1 Card the first two times. My one worry about the attack is it could probably get played a lot (which I don't think is a problem balance-wise, it would just slow the game down), so I wonder if there's a better way to prevent that than the current way of just keeping your hand with your Covers (this requires 3 covers though). Also hope you appreciate the theming! I don't usually put much effort into it but did this time.
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#### mxdata

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2022, 11:05:17 pm »
+3

Quote
Demagogue
Action - Duration
\$5
Gain an Action card from the trash, setting it aside (on this) to play it at the start of your next turn.
-
Set up: Place the Outcasts in the trash.

Demagogue is similar to Lurker in its ability to gain Action cards from the trash. Unlike Lurker, it is unable to directly put cards into the trash. Whatever Action card it gains is played at the start of your next turn, rather than having to wait until the next shuffle, in addition to not having to use an Action to play them

As part of its set-up, three Action cards, the Outcasts, start out in the trash.  All three trash themselves at the start of Clean-Up. Initially I had them trash themselves on play, until I realized that you could end up having an Outcast (especially the attack) monopolized by a single player if that player had a strong drawing engine and two Demagogues. In most games, the Outcasts would never enter your deck. There are, of course, several ways of getting them into your deck, such as Lurker or Way of the Seal, but in most games, they'd never be able to enter your deck

Quote
Knave
Action - Attack - Outcast
\$3
Each other player reveals cards form the top of their deck until revealing an Action or Treasure card costing up to \$4 other than a Copper. They trash that one and discard the rest. At the start of Clean-Up, trash this.

Knave is a trashing attack which digs for a cheap Action or Treasure, other than Copper. It can't trash Victory cards (except, of course, Action-Victory or Treasure-Victory). It thus lets you put more Actions in the trash for Demagogue to gain. Initially, I had this being only Action cards up to \$4, but, while not very common, there are certainly a number of kingdoms where that would end up never being able to trash anything. Then I played around with a few other ideas, such as using the War hex's attack, but ultimately I settled on this formula. Cost-reduction would allow it to trash more expensive cards, but unlike with other ranged attacks like Knights, it doesn't cause cheaper cards to be safe

Because there's no minimum, Knave would be weaker in games with Looters, where it would frequently end up trashing Ruins. On the other hand, as it can hit \$0-cost non-supply cards, a lucky play could really hurt in games with Tournament!

Quote
Embezzler
Action - Outcast
\$3
Choose one: Trash a Treasure card form your hand or +\$1 per differently-named Treasure in the trash. At the start of Clean-Up, trash this.

Embezzler can serve as a Copper-trasher, and, similar to Forager, can be a source of coins that is stronger the more diverse the trash is. Combined with Knave hitting Silvers, it would easily be +\$2 in most games

Quote
Dunce
Action - Outcast
\$3
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per Action card in your hand. At the start of Clean-Up, trash this.

Dunce is like a poor version of City Quarter, rewarding you for having a lot of Action cards, but without any extra Actions
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 11:08:32 pm by mxdata »
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#### Mahowrath

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2022, 09:37:21 am »
0

24ish hour warning!

Get your entries and any modifications in to avoid disappointment
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#### mathdude

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2022, 03:29:22 pm »
+3

Okay, let's take a crack at this.  Initially, I saw that we could do a Project, so I figured maybe I could do an Event as well.  Then I realized that isn't a "durationy something".  So it was back to just being a card.  Here's the result.

It runs similar to Necromancer, but has its own (communal) mat where the starting Attack cards are kept.  It is possible to add additional Attack cards to the mat that can be used by Preparation, but then it's available to everyone (as long as there are other Attack cards in the kingdom).  The attacks this card uses (as of Setup) are on the weaker side, but that's why you get to play two of them by playing a single (Duration) card.

There is one non-terminal Attack, where you can use it to continually give out Coppers (to you and others).  There is a way to get rid of your Copper and curse others instead (but it also allows them to trash a Copper too).  These attacks were put together quite quick though, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear if there was a bit of issues with balance!
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#### Mahowrath

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2022, 10:10:17 am »
+2

Closing the contest to new entries

Entries I have are:

jakav   Field/Farm/Town
spineflu   Savings/Panic
Erick648   Warlord/Enforcer
exfret   Sniper/Cover
mxdata   Demagogue/Knave/Embezzler/Dunce
mathdude   Preparation/Burning Arrows/Trebuchet/Smoke/Trojan Horse

@Exfret, I've seen various versions of your entry on #variants. If you let me know quickly which one you want judged, I can accommodate it. Otherwise, I'll judge the entry in this thread.

so I figured maybe I could do an Event as well
In hindsight, attacking events is another completely reasonable way to use this mechanic; apologies for not including that option.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 10:18:14 am by Mahowrath »
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#### Mahowrath

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2022, 01:19:42 pm »
+4

JUDGEMENT

Honestly I'm glad there weren't too many entries, judging a winner was tricky; a lot of good entries:

jakav's Field/Farm/Town
Field, Farm and Town is a cool, understated application of the mechanic. Fields are skippable Coppers, but by colliding two with \$3 other cash we can get through Farm (a light discard attack) to Town, once per turn, for some nice gains. It takes some effort to set field up as payload, but then roughly 4 fields = \$4, 2 gains, a mild discard attack, 1 VP, and a village per turn for 2 stopcards; so the cost potentially ends up justified in the mid/late game. This isn't really what I was expecting when I set this contest, and defining Farm as an attack because it 'sells people food' is a bit of a stretch, but I appreciate this is a nice cohesive set of cards.

spineflu's Savings/Panic
Great flavour: we're dipping into our savings until they're gone, and then panicking - just like in real life. Balance-wise, I would say that Savings feels overpriced as it is; +2 coffers total on a duration for \$5 feels simply worse than Villain. Even if we put in the work to uncover Panic, its discard attack doesn't seem very effective, and stacks poorly. With some rebalancing, I think this combo could be a lot of fun to play.

Erick648's Warlord/Enforcer
Great self-synergy, good flavour. Enforcer handsize attacks our opponents, so Warlord can gain nice cards from our opponents' hands. Furthermore, Enforcer lets us "exile" cards we've discarded to handsize attacks, or set up attacks to use with our extra warlord plays; albeit Enforcer can often suffer from the harbinger problem if our opponents don't buy into Warlords. Warlord's effectiveness also depends a lot on the kingdom; Supplies for example is a hard counter to the reveal gain, and horse/spirit gainers in general are problematic, though there's little to be done about it from a design point of view.

exfret's Sniper/Cover
In this instance, Cover is a hireling-esque action, that gives a one-time pseudotrash option, and a novel continuing attack to sift away our opponents' good cards. Cover is probably worth opening for the pseudotrash alone; but as exfret points out, the repeating sniper attack could get tedious. I think perhaps the non-permanent duration implementation of Cover had better interaction/flavour with Sniper, and there's definitely a lot of potential here.

mxdata's Demagogue/Knave/Embezzler/Dunce
This is a cute mechanic; Demagogue sets asides actions from the trash to play next turn; the Outcast "zombies" for this trash themselves at cleanup, preventing a player from monopolising any given Outcast. My main concern is that Knave is very mean; not dissimilar to the War hex, but far less random to trigger. Embezzler on the other hand will typically be a very weak option for the payload of a \$5 cost duration, and maybe less so than Dunce, can vary in effectiveness depending on what you end up drawing for your next hand. Knave can set up other <\$4 options to gain; a lot of effort for playing a terminal duration \$5, but it could be necessary to replenish villages in the wake of the attacks.

mathdude's Preparation/Burning Arrows/Trebuchet/Smoke/Trojan Horse
These cards look like a lot of fun to play with. I enjoy the flavour of having an arsenal of siege options, and the interactions between the Plan attacks create neat combos to justify acquiring multiple Preparations. Preparation does feel underpriced at \$5 mind; it isn't far off Captain, where Smoke alone is close to being a Ghost Ship, and perhaps isn't even the strongest option while curses remain to be trebucheted. Maybe call it \$6, and consider renaming Preparation (could be a military equivalent of "Captain"?), and this looks great.

WINNER:
mathdude's Preparation/Burning Arrows/Trebuchet/Smoke/Trojan Horse

Chosen because it just looks like a lot of fun to play with. Congrats mathdude, and thanks everyone for your submissions!
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#### mathdude

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##### Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 25: Enter the Dragon (Duration Attacks)
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2022, 06:53:49 pm »
+4

Thanks! I'll plan to get a new contest up soon... maybe late tonight, or maybe not until tomorrow evening.
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