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[mathdude]

The Mix v Scola thing I *think* is Town v Town and someone messed with Mix. Leaving me at either GK or Galz today.

Why do some of you think it's TvT?
And then if someone messed with MiX (why couldn't they have also/instead messed with scola?)... why does that leave you at gk or Galz? I get that gk could be lying about the even-night (and figured in BM he could get away with claiming a scummy role as scum).

But I think we have to resolve this MiX and Scola thing. How does Galz factor in?

Galz and gkrieg are scummier than scola and MiX. What's the urgency to figure out scola v. MiX?

There is a clear discrepancy. I'm not saying we exile one of them. I think it's very possible it was actually gk who caused the shenanigans. But at this point, I don't see why we would exile outside those 3.

I get that Galz' claim (timing, word choices) looks scummy. But unless Swowl counterclaims Doctor, the roles we have look standard enough that having a Doctor makes sense for Town. So I don't think that's the Exile for today.

PPE 11... started this post earlier today, forgot to hit post

[mathdude]

gkrieg and math are both pushing resolving the 1:1 problem. That feels like manufactured urgency to me and therefore scummy.

Have you now added MiX to your scummy list?
As has been said recently - with vig plus potentially exile too, why would we not try to sort out this 1v1-ish?

[EFHW]

gkrieg and math are both pushing resolving the 1:1 problem. That feels like manufactured urgency to me and therefore scummy.

Have you now added MiX to your scummy list?
As has been said recently - with vig plus potentially exile too, why would we not try to sort out this 1v1-ish?

I'm saying the the apparent urgency attached to resolving it seems artificial. Obviously it will need to be resolved somehow. MiX is one of the two parties in question, so his agenda seems less scummy.

[mathdude]

I'm going to go ahead and
Vote: scola

I want to vote MiX and have him be scum so I can say I was right D1. But at this point, my gut is telling me it's probably scola.

I know we have no idea how joth would set up roles in a game, let alone BM. But Rolecop feels like it could be scum even in this game, just like Bus Driver could be. The claiming last meant he didn't need to guess any roles, even if the claim is a lie. And if it is his role and he got blocked last night, claiming a result gives him a chance (1v1)  at exiling our RBer.

[mathdude]

Math - Hood with Awaclus
Awaclus - Hood with Math
EFHW - 1 Shot Double Voter (Day use? Night use?)
WCD - One Shot Day Vig
GK - Even Night Bus Driver
MiX - Roleblocker - Scola N1, Mathdue *N2 --- conflicts with pastas claim.
Pasta - Odd Night Role Cop - WCD N1, Math N2

For the * on MiX... shouldn't it be N1 that conflicts with Scola?

Also, scola could have been the killer N1 and that's why there was no death. It means the Doctor didn't necessarily prevent both nights, as was Galz's initial thought.

[MiX]

I don't think the lack of flips is due to my roleblocking. It doesn't make sense in the theme of this game to have nightly flips. Although given scola's claim, I did probably block the N1 kill.

[WestCoastDidds]

Answer to how the dayvig works! The kill happens and the day resets.

[gkrieg13]

gkrieg and math are both pushing resolving the 1:1 problem. That feels like manufactured urgency to me and therefore scummy.

Have you now added MiX to your scummy list?
As has been said recently - with vig plus potentially exile too, why would we not try to sort out this 1v1-ish?

I'm saying the the apparent urgency attached to resolving it seems artificial. Obviously it will need to be resolved somehow. MiX is one of the two parties in question, so his agenda seems less scummy.

I mean, there is likely 6 people actually alive with 2 scum, so we are at MyXo, so it is not really artificial.

[gkrieg13]

vote: scola

What swowl said made me rethink, and I think it is more likely that scola is the scum in this situation.

[gkrieg13]

The Mix v Scola thing I *think* is Town v Town and someone messed with Mix. Leaving me at either GK or Galz today.

I agree with this

Same. gkrieg has joined Galz at the top of my scum list.

Why?

Scummy role, Complaining about flavor question.  Pushing 1:1. Aggressive tone.

The role matches up with Swowl's role (being even-night, basically a VT).

I'm complaining about the nature of the flavor question. It is saying that either the mod did not include flavor information in one of the roles, or in a fakeclaim, both of which I have no control over and are questioning the wording of my QT.

Already addressed above, but I don't understand why it is scummy for pushing a 1v1 when we are at either MyLo or Xlo (if Didds vigs).

The aggressive tone is because of the second point, mainly. I really don't like that I'm being called scummy because of the wording of my QT.

[mathdude]

Answer to how the dayvig works! The kill happens and the day resets.

If we are at 6, with 2 scum (which I think is worst case right now), the move is usually no exile. Because a misexile lets scum night-kill to get to 2-2 which is likely a win. No exile lets scum being it to 3-2 and still have a chance the next day.

But if the day resets, then we can bring it to 4-1 or 3-2 and a new day, both of which are probably better than where we're at right now anyway.

So I think day-vig is the way to go.

Of course, with the potentials of RB and doctor, numbers aren't quite so clear-cut. But it's probably still our best move. Confirm a role and reset the day so we can start testing voting patterns.

Unvote

I still think scola could be killed today though.

[mathdude]

joth, will we be informed every time someone dies this game?

[Galzria]

It’s worth noting that scum will likely be pushing to exile town that they HAVEN’T targeted at night  previously to kill (1. We don’t even know if they ARE exiable and 2. If they aren’t, scum wouldn’t want to give us the information of who they’ve targeted.).

[MiX]

Answer to how the dayvig works! The kill happens and the day resets.

Whaaaaat! That's so bastard!

Oh wait.

[scolapasta]

Hi all, busy day for me, but let me comment on some posts:

I think the exile should really be either scola or MiX. Not only do they have conflicting claims, they both have stopped or tried to stop an exile this game, which is the only way we get any information on flips, so it is extremely scummy to do so.

So this was already responded to more eloquently by Swowl in post 454, but HUH??

What's the flavor for the bus driving? That's normally a scum role.

What do you mean? It just says bus driver (even though I drive a van)

Well usually a mod will tie the power into the character or story. Like my character is a big cheese in the community, so I get an extra vote. How is mixing people up and redirecting their actions represented flavor-wise?

Did other people get that? Mine has absolutely none of that. Although I am the only VT.

mine is actually kind of tied in, and then in the flavor role pm it is even like "explained" how it is connected to my role.

This is a useless conversation, and a distraction.

At first I disagreed with this, but you know it sort of is. Mostly because I do believe the bus driver claim.

There's no way I would have said that if I was scum. I try to do everything I can to not bring attention to myself. As town, I feel I more freely share my opinions, even if they may not be as acceptable mainstream.

The bold part is meaningless. I mean sure as scum, you often try not to bring attention, but a) sometimes you mix it up purposefully, and b) sometimes you might mess up and then this is a "convenient" excuse.

Regarding roles... as they were being claimed, the odd-night made sense, given multiple D1s. The even-night bus driver claim seemed very fabricated.

But now that Swowl has said his role is even-night, I'm questioning my initial reactions above.

Does anyone in this game know of a way to get out of this loop? I don't know if we publicly need to know how yet, but it seems like it might be helpful to know whether we can.

joth, is it possible to get to D2 in this game while the game is still running?

I went through the same thought process - even night is weird, but then swowl, our IC is even night, so it's not impossible. But of course, this is the pefect kind of thing to post here by mathdude to try to look like he's helping town.

Add to that all the questions to mod seem, I don't know, trying to also look purposefully towny.


I've suspected mathdude since (first) D1 for some reason. His posts continue to ping me. BUT...

I do think my vote for today should be based on the 1v1. And I really don't currently read MiX as scum (mostly because I don't see him taking the risk and saying he blocked me). So I still see it as gkrieg bus driving us (and actually being odd day)

Vote: gkrieg

[scolapasta]

It’s worth noting that scum will likely be pushing to exile town that they HAVEN’T targeted at night  previously to kill (1. We don’t even know if they ARE exiable and 2. If they aren’t, scum wouldn’t want to give us the information of who they’ve targeted.).

This is a good post. And it's quite towny in a way that wasn't obvious to me and doesn't feel like scum trying to be towny.

[mathdude]

There's no way I would have said that if I was scum. I try to do everything I can to not bring attention to myself. As town, I feel I more freely share my opinions, even if they may not be as acceptable mainstream.

The bold part is meaningless. I mean sure as scum, you often try not to bring attention, but a) sometimes you mix it up purposefully, and b) sometimes you might mess up and then this is a "convenient" excuse.

If you're going to claim it's meaningless, at least state that my self-awareness of it makes the statement less effective of an argument. Through self-awareness, I could then do exactly what I "would never do" as scum, then claim I would never do it.

Yes, scum can mess up on strategy.  But really... discussing the possibility of re-exiling what is as close to a confirmed townie as we can get?  It's discussion to try and figure out this game.  It's getting thoughts out there.

Regarding roles... as they were being claimed, the odd-night made sense, given multiple D1s. The even-night bus driver claim seemed very fabricated.

But now that Swowl has said his role is even-night, I'm questioning my initial reactions above.

Does anyone in this game know of a way to get out of this loop? I don't know if we publicly need to know how yet, but it seems like it might be helpful to know whether we can.

joth, is it possible to get to D2 in this game while the game is still running?

I went through the same thought process - even night is weird, but then swowl, our IC is even night, so it's not impossible. But of course, this is the pefect kind of thing to post here by mathdude to try to look like he's helping town.

Add to that all the questions to mod seem, I don't know, trying to also look purposefully towny.

You thought it but didn't say it, so that means we should believe you're town.  I thought it and said it, so that makes me scum trying to look like town?  I get that you have a "math is scum"-filter that you're wearing, but this really is a stretch.

And all the questions to the mod to seem "purposefully towny"... yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.  No, I'm actually trying to see how much useful information we can get from the mod, because that might help us solve things.

I've suspected mathdude since (first) D1 for some reason. His posts continue to ping me.

You are either scum really sticking to your guns.  Or you're a very sadly mistaken town, who will obviously not let this up until either I die or the game ends and you realize you've been wrong this whole game.

[scolapasta]

There's no way I would have said that if I was scum. I try to do everything I can to not bring attention to myself. As town, I feel I more freely share my opinions, even if they may not be as acceptable mainstream.

The bold part is meaningless. I mean sure as scum, you often try not to bring attention, but a) sometimes you mix it up purposefully, and b) sometimes you might mess up and then this is a "convenient" excuse.

If you're going to claim it's meaningless, at least state that my self-awareness of it makes the statement less effective of an argument. Through self-awareness, I could then do exactly what I "would never do" as scum, then claim I would never do it.

That is what I meant by (a).

Yes, scum can mess up on strategy.  But really... discussing the possibility of re-exiling what is as close to a confirmed townie as we can get?  It's discussion to try and figure out this game.  It's getting thoughts out there.

I wasn't discussing the specific merits of what you said, just the "There's no way I would have said that if I was scum" part.

Regarding roles... as they were being claimed, the odd-night made sense, given multiple D1s. The even-night bus driver claim seemed very fabricated.

But now that Swowl has said his role is even-night, I'm questioning my initial reactions above.

Does anyone in this game know of a way to get out of this loop? I don't know if we publicly need to know how yet, but it seems like it might be helpful to know whether we can.

joth, is it possible to get to D2 in this game while the game is still running?

I went through the same thought process - even night is weird, but then swowl, our IC is even night, so it's not impossible. But of course, this is the pefect kind of thing to post here by mathdude to try to look like he's helping town.

Add to that all the questions to mod seem, I don't know, trying to also look purposefully towny.

You thought it but didn't say it, so that means we should believe you're town.  I thought it and said it, so that makes me scum trying to look like town?  I get that you have a "math is scum"-filter that you're wearing, but this really is a stretch.

I wasn't trying to make any kind of argument for my towni-ness. Just agreeing with you, but then also pointing out that this is something that I think all town probably considered and is the kind of statement the kind scum will try to post to appear towny. But sure, it's also something towny might post. (for an example of somethingI find useful to town, see Glaz's post)

And all the questions to the mod to seem "purposefully towny"... yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.  No, I'm actually trying to see how much useful information we can get from the mod, because that might help us solve things.

So I'll need to find the questions so it'll go in another post, but I guess when I read the questions, my initial reaction was usually, "yeah, joth isn't going to answer this". Doesn't mean it hurts to ask, but I do think asking questions is another thing scum sometimes to appear towny.

I've suspected mathdude since (first) D1 for some reason. His posts continue to ping me.

You are either scum really sticking to your guns.  Or you're a very sadly mistaken town, who will obviously not let this up until either I die or the game ends and you realize you've been wrong this whole game.

Maybe you're right and I'm just tunneling. Several my reasons are things I think scum will do to appear towny, but could, of course, just be legitimately towny.

The fact that you're just a neighbor could be a sign you're just town, as I might have expected two scum PRs. On the other hand, if the town doctors and roleblockers are weakened by the fact that we don't actually know if they worked at night.

[scolapasta]

OK, so I went back quickly and found 3 questions. Feel free to let me know if I missed any:

Mr Mod... did Swowl get exiled?

This one is fine and did help, as it had the mod actually edit the post. But to me at least it was clear that Swowl was Ned. I think I said before that the repeating D1's seems bastard enough that there won't be anything else too crazy.

joth, is it possible to get to D2 in this game while the game is still running?

This one to me seemed pointless to ask -the repeating D1s is the gimmick, so I don't expect the mod to reveal that.

joth, will we be informed every time someone dies this game?

This one also seemed pointless to ask - again, the whole point of the repeating D1s is that everything seemingly resets so there's no place to tell us about NKs. So it seems an obvious "no", but more likely that joth would just not answer. (and we had had 2 nights without flips - this could mean we got lucky both nks were averted by and doctor saveing and/or roleblocker blocking, but I think that's not likely.)

AND this is one that scum has extra knowledge on, so only a town person would even need to consider asking this.


So, sure, pointless questions doesn't mean scum, but they also don't actually help town in any truly meaninglful way.

Case in point: joth, is mathdude scum?

[EFHW]

It’s worth noting that scum will likely be pushing to exile town that they HAVEN’T targeted at night  previously to kill (1. We don’t even know if they ARE exiable and 2. If they aren’t, scum wouldn’t want to give us the information of who they’ve targeted.).

This is a good post. And it's quite towny in a way that wasn't obvious to me and doesn't feel like scum trying to be towny.

This is an interesting post by scola. Looking at all the combinations of scola town/scum, Galz town/scum. Town!scola would be making a specific effort to defend someone who has gotten some pressure but not a lot. Mostly me being noisy, some from Swowl and Didds. Scum!scola could be white knighting town!Galz or protecting scumpartner!Galz, though kind of too blatantly to be likely, except WIFOM.

Then there's Galz's post to consider. Scum could prefer to exile someone already dead because we wouldn't have time to scramble up a new exile and town wouldn't get a flip. And then it's not one of them. The information about who has been nk'd isn't all that valuable and not a bad trade for a no exile. Finally, trying to avoid some town exiles narrows the focus, making a scum exile more likely.  Galz also doesn't follow up with any implications of his point for scumhunting. This does sound like something scum would consider while looking for a voting strategy, but I doubt it would be at all significant or discernible in their play. This fits right into my belief that Galz is scum..

[gkrieg13]

Hi all, busy day for me, but let me comment on some posts:

I think the exile should really be either scola or MiX. Not only do they have conflicting claims, they both have stopped or tried to stop an exile this game, which is the only way we get any information on flips, so it is extremely scummy to do so.

So this was already responded to more eloquently by Swowl in post 454, but HUH??

My point is that even though they avoid an exile, if they know that there are going to not be flips, except on exile, and that town won't even know they are dead, it would be worth it to avoid a town exile.

What's the flavor for the bus driving? That's normally a scum role.

What do you mean? It just says bus driver (even though I drive a van)

Well usually a mod will tie the power into the character or story. Like my character is a big cheese in the community, so I get an extra vote. How is mixing people up and redirecting their actions represented flavor-wise?

Did other people get that? Mine has absolutely none of that. Although I am the only VT.

mine is actually kind of tied in, and then in the flavor role pm it is even like "explained" how it is connected to my role.

This is a useless conversation, and a distraction.

At first I disagreed with this, but you know it sort of is. Mostly because I do believe the bus driver claim.

It's just obviously not a fakeclaim I would make as scum.

Regarding roles... as they were being claimed, the odd-night made sense, given multiple D1s. The even-night bus driver claim seemed very fabricated.

But now that Swowl has said his role is even-night, I'm questioning my initial reactions above.

Does anyone in this game know of a way to get out of this loop? I don't know if we publicly need to know how yet, but it seems like it might be helpful to know whether we can.

joth, is it possible to get to D2 in this game while the game is still running?

I went through the same thought process - even night is weird, but then swowl, our IC is even night, so it's not impossible. But of course, this is the pefect kind of thing to post here by mathdude to try to look like he's helping town.

Add to that all the questions to mod seem, I don't know, trying to also look purposefully towny.

This is something math tends to do as scum, things that look townie, but don't really benefit town.

I've suspected mathdude since (first) D1 for some reason. His posts continue to ping me. BUT...

I do think my vote for today should be based on the 1v1. And I really don't currently read MiX as scum (mostly because I don't see him taking the risk and saying he blocked me). So I still see it as gkrieg bus driving us (and actually being odd day)

Vote: gkrieg

Consider that Swowl had not claimed when I claimed, or even when I was defending my claim. He is also even-night, essentially a VT. So I would have had to just decide that even-night was a clever thing in this game, without knowing about the singular even-night role (Swowl's in this hypothetical).

PPEs

[mathdude]

Regarding roles... as they were being claimed, the odd-night made sense, given multiple D1s. The even-night bus driver claim seemed very fabricated.

But now that Swowl has said his role is even-night, I'm questioning my initial reactions above.

Does anyone in this game know of a way to get out of this loop? I don't know if we publicly need to know how yet, but it seems like it might be helpful to know whether we can.

joth, is it possible to get to D2 in this game while the game is still running?

I went through the same thought process - even night is weird, but then swowl, our IC is even night, so it's not impossible. But of course, this is the pefect kind of thing to post here by mathdude to try to look like he's helping town.

Add to that all the questions to mod seem, I don't know, trying to also look purposefully towny.

This is something math tends to do as scum, things that look townie, but don't really benefit town.

Let me correct that for you.

"This is something math tends to do.  Period."

I have apparently done it in some of my recent scum games, because it's apparently what I do.  Things that I post, and questions that I ask, that I think are helpful (whether I'm town or scum)... I'm hearing from the general population that they think it looks scummy.

I disagree.  If I ask 4 questions, even if some seem trivial, yet get 1 helpful answer, then it's still useful to have asked questions.

You can agree to disagree.  But I'm not going to stop doing it.

[scolapasta]

This is something math tends to do as scum, things that look townie, but don't really benefit town.

Let me correct that for you.

"This is something math tends to do.  Period."

You get that "this" is "things that look townie, but don't really benefit town"?? :p

Anyway, I'll be away for a while, but back either tonight or in time for deadline tomorrow.

[EFHW]

Why aren't people looking more at Galzria? He engineered the Swowl exile!

[gkrieg13]

Why aren't people looking more at Galzria? He engineered the Swowl exile!

I'm fine to look more at galz, especially since he has kind of disappeared after the Swowl exile.