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[mathdude]

It's my wife's birthday and we have family over so I likely won't be on for deadline. I will try to check in once or twice more though.

I have no idea where we should vote. Nothing obvious stands out. So it feels typical D1, where we need to maximize usefulness of the vote. Who do we have the most opinions on? Scola? MiX? Swowl? Someone else?

I do think we should exile today though, to maintain odd parity... until or unless we learn anything else about roles that can affect that. So I'm willing to jump votes if needed and if able.

[jotheonah]

Vote count incoming when I have a chance to be on not mobile but y’all have about three hours left in Day 1. And once Day 1 is gone, you can’t get it back!

[Awaclus]

And once Day 1 is gone, you can’t get it back!

I'm going to press X to doubt here.

[gkrieg13]

I’ll be in and out around the deadline. Will try to be here just before at least

[gkrieg13]

Actually:

Gkrieg, what was the reasoning for your MiX vote?

Mostly RVS. Partially him talking about nothing.

Can you specify the "nothing" that he was talking about?

He was posting things about how I hadn’t posted, etc.  He was making posts that don’t really help town

[gkrieg13]

Slow starting game. Then again, we're just 9, but gkrieg hasn't showed up yet.

This is a bastard game. You can trust what the mod tells you to a point. But some things I say may not be entirely true. Or not true in the way you think they are.

Does this include role pms? What about win conditions?

Just thought about something: why didn't you just ask this in your QT?

[gkrieg13]

Hey everyone!

MiX, it’s been awhile. Why should I believe that you are not scum this game?

I don't think joth would make this multiball.

MiX and Awaclus are scum.
Discuss.

Also, memes are always welcome, Didds

I wish, kinda, although I liked rolling town this game.

So if we can get past the pointless accusation stage... any one want to speculate on setup?

i.e. Groundhog's day - here's my attempt:

One of us is the Bill Murray character and if they get exiled of NKed then everyone who was killed before is "regenerated".

Not saying that would work as a game, maybe, but it would be thematic.

Pointless accusation stage is the best!

Vote: scola, let's see if you can escape a single RVS vote without making the scummiest post of the game.

Why did you like rolling town this game?

[gkrieg13]

This is as good of a time as any to say that 4 votes is X-1.

This is another post of nothing

[gkrieg13]

This is as good of a time as any to say that 4 votes is X-1.

Are you saying you want someone to put the pasta at X-1?

No, the opposite.

If I voted for pasta, would you unvote?

Yes.

Why not have a wagon go to dangerous levels?

[gkrieg13]

So if we can get past the pointless accusation stage... any one want to speculate on setup?

i.e. Groundhog's day - here's my attempt:

One of us is the Bill Murray character and if they get exiled of NKed then everyone who was killed before is "regenerated".

Not saying that would work as a game, maybe, but it would be thematic.

Vote: Scola

Why is random accusation stage worse than pointless setup speculation stage?

In fact, I would argue it quite the opposite - "Random Accusation" is never, in fact, random - and is far less so for scum than for town. And further, "Pointless Setup Speculation", when there is no public setup info to begin with, only encourages potential slips of knowledge - something scum would love to pick up on.

I didn't call it random, just pointless. And yes, I get the point is to see how people react. But I'd argue, that's not actually effective. It would be interesting to see some analysis on how well anyone's D1 reads actually are...

I do hear you on potential slips of knowledge and had not completely thought of that - but those slips some times come from scum, too, no?

i.e I think the point of either is just to encourage more chatter - and this is true for both town and scum. town trying to weed out scum, scum trying to learn town's roles. I'm not sure why one is actually better than the other. I'm just not of fun of picking someone and voting for them without at least a piece of reasoning.

I think it is likely better for scum to know the setup than town, and the chatter you get with voting and making wagons is probably better than what you get from closed setup discussion.

[gkrieg13]

Slow starting game. Then again, we're just 9, but gkrieg hasn't showed up yet.

This is a bastard game. You can trust what the mod tells you to a point. But some things I say may not be entirely true. Or not true in the way you think they are.

Does this include role pms? What about win conditions?

Just thought about something: why didn't you just ask this in your QT?

I wanted to be able to quote and it seemed like good information for town to have. Would the qt have been preferable somehow?

Just feel like a question that is most natural to ask when you read it, not when the game starts, so it felt weird.

Messi?

Yes.

I didn't call it random, just pointless. And yes, I get the point is to see how people react. But I'd argue, that's not actually effective. It would be interesting to see some analysis on how well anyone's D1 reads actually are...

Last game, you were tied to Didds because of Didds' early wagon and infang buried himself when he called me scum due to an assumption that people will say things like that when pushing people they think are scum. Reacting is a very big part of mafia.

Now, do I think your reaction here is scummy? Kinda, honestly. Enough to keep my vote on you.


I like Galzria this game. I guess he kinda reminds me of when we were scumbuddies? But I like what I'm seeing overall.

What made scola’s reaction scummier than when you were going to unvote then if mathdude jumped on the wagon?

[gkrieg13]

EFHW - what you find skummy about that?
Like also mix what do you find skummy about the response he had?

Could they of responded in a way that was not going to be skummy? Or was it just the fact that they responded?

It has the ring of a classic scum post - making generalizations about how they play and how town and scum play. Safe stuff, no commitments.

I'd vote him, but I don't want to put him at E-1 so early in the day.

I think this kind of tentativeness is a town tell for EFHW

[gkrieg13]

EFHW - what you find skummy about that?
Like also mix what do you find skummy about the response he had?

Could they of responded in a way that was not going to be skummy? Or was it just the fact that they responded?

It has the ring of a classic scum post - making generalizations about how they play and how town and scum play. Safe stuff, no commitments.

I'd vote him, but I don't want to put him at E-1 so early in the day.

I think this is a really accurate assessment. +1

So if so many people want to exile scola, why aren’t more people voting for them?

[gkrieg13]

My head is spinning! I see myself agreeing with both Galzy and EFHW way more than I usually do. It’s a refreshing change.

I’ve been thinking about the low level of interaction and content generally. I’m guessing it’s attributed to the closed set up, so we don’t actually have much to talk about right now? Thus the conversation about the utility of random votes to start the game. It feels tough to get started, or to form any sort of concrete opinions.

Are you more likely to agree with them if they are town or if they are scum?

Also I feel like your buddy meter is turned a little down this game. I think that probably makes you town, but because it is you I’m not sure.

[gkrieg13]

My head is spinning! I see myself agreeing with both Galzy and EFHW way more than I usually do. It’s a refreshing change.

I’ve been thinking about the low level of interaction and content generally. I’m guessing it’s attributed to the closed set up, so we don’t actually have much to talk about right now? Thus the conversation about the utility of random votes to start the game. It feels tough to get started, or to form any sort of concrete opinions.

Do you have anyone that you would like to give a town pass to D1?  That can help start conversation and narrow down the exile pool.
Sorry, my mistake. I guess I still had an old window open from early this morning before work and didn't refresh it before replying.

I guess I agree with Didds, agreeing with Galz, agreeing with EFHW. Anyone else?

In all seriousness... i haven't played enough games here to know who votes whom and when on D1.

But still, seeing people's votes D1 can sometimes be helpful D3 and onwards for those who are able to look back and say "last time I was scum with X, they were very careful to vote each partner D1 but not put any pressure" or "I have never seen Y vote for partners D1 before. He voted Z D1 today and we know Z is scum now, so I'm pretty sure Y isn't scum".

[gkrieg13]

Oops, quote fail and I don’t really want to fix it on my phone.

[gkrieg13]

My head is spinning! I see myself agreeing with both Galzy and EFHW way more than I usually do. It’s a refreshing change.

I’ve been thinking about the low level of interaction and content generally. I’m guessing it’s attributed to the closed set up, so we don’t actually have much to talk about right now? Thus the conversation about the utility of random votes to start the game. It feels tough to get started, or to form any sort of concrete opinions.

Sorry, my mistake. I guess I still had an old window open from early this morning before work and didn't refresh it before replying.

I guess I agree with Didds, agreeing with Galz, agreeing with EFHW. Anyone else?

In all seriousness... i haven't played enough games here to know who votes whom and when on D1.

But still, seeing people's votes D1 can sometimes be helpful D3 and onwards for those who are able to look back and say "last time I was scum with X, they were very careful to vote each partner D1 but not put any pressure" or "I have never seen Y vote for partners D1 before. He voted Z D1 today and we know Z is scum now, so I'm pretty sure Y isn't scum".

Do you have anyone that you would like to give a town pass to D1?  That can help start conversation and narrow down the exile pool.

[gkrieg13]

EFHW - what you find skummy about that?
Like also mix what do you find skummy about the response he had?

Could they of responded in a way that was not going to be skummy? Or was it just the fact that they responded?

It has the ring of a classic scum post - making generalizations about how they play and how town and scum play. Safe stuff, no commitments.

I'd vote him, but I don't want to put him at E-1 so early in the day.

do you disagree with anything he said?
he was answering a question right? all of it seems to check out to me.
There is no definitive answer, it is open ended, so I don't see not having commitments here skummy. Nor towny.

It's the generalizations. And the topic is so not interesting.  Why did he say that about RVS anyway? If you don't like it then don't do it. Personally,  I rarely do it, but I think it's a valuable community building phase, before we all feel suspicious of each other, and a place to work out feelings from past games. Maybe I'll start doing it more!

But I'll grant you that it reads somewhat less scummy if you take into account that he was answering a question.

I mean generalizations is really all we have D1, I think. Or at least early in the day. And I'd argue that even though we're nearing deadline, it's still early in that there haven't been many posts.

And only 1 wagon (me) which was very early.

So it's a weird D1 in my mind. But that's fine, I guess. I just don't see anywhere right now to put my vote.

Pretty much same question. Where do you not want to put your vote.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: MiX

Awaclus, why do you find him scummy? What do you think about Scola?

For reasons. I could also go back to voting Scola.

Ah yes, those "reasons".  Elusive "reasons".  Sounds very familiar... like we seem to have this discussion every other game why some people don't give their "reasons".

You’ll have an easier time talking to Faust about reasons than Awaclus

[gkrieg13]

I'm confused why scola isn't interacting with us more around his wagon. I think we have the votes to exile him. No one else is being suggested. In a larger game, that would suggest he was town. I'm not sure how that plays out in a small game like this. Someone did mention Galz but didn't elaborate.

I feel the exact same way

[gkrieg13]

People that tend to single out my low involvement early in the game are either scum or Faust generally.

Oy vey the problems with this post.

It’s mainly when that is all they do. Like if Swowl were to do it, it would be very scummy. Much less scummy when you do it.

[gkrieg13]

I am more persuaded by Galz than the Scola folks, although he is my second choice.  The MiX reasons are... uh...hard to evaluate.  I'm not sure his lack of activity is any worse than gkriegs. I do not understand at all why gkrieg can just check out of D1 with no repercussions, though.

So, my scummy to not list is
Swowl
Scola
gkrieg
MiX
math
Awaclus
Galz
EFHW

EFHW town? Why?

I have Galz and Awaclus on top of my town list too, but mostly because that's who I remember being townie. Of course, Galzria's recent wall post skyrocketed him to townhood. Just reached that threshold of pro-town.

Why did that long post make him town?

[EFHW]

This is cool. I like Galz's Swowl case and gkrieg has some good points on MiX. And scola is defensive and not participating much.

vote: Swowl. Would also vote scola. Would vote MiX in a pinch.

[gkrieg13]

Reads are:

MiX - definitely scummy. Reasons are above.
scola - I definitely get why people are saying they are scummy. I agree with them, just don’t think they are as strong as others suggest. Still wouldn’t mind this exile.
Swowl - I don’t completely agree with their defense of themselves, but didn’t feel as strong about the case either. Would also be fine with this exile.

Awaclus - don’t want to exile here
Galz - I don’t think he is as townie as other people think, but don’t want to exile D1.
EFHW - I don’t like that she is one of the people who is just talking about voting for scola but not actually doing it. If scola is scum, she is likely their partner.
WCD - she seems like she is trying to find her footing, but just seems townie in the way she is doing it. Don’t really want to exile.
Mathdude - this is the first game I’m in with them where they don’t scream scum to me. So don’t want to exile them.

[scolapasta]

I'm going to go ahead and:

Vote: mathdude

I'm guessing this will likely get an OMGUS vote, from past experience, we'll see...

Reasoning: MiX is a typical easy D1 vote and if it turns out to be a mixexile, is easily defensible. And mathdude's last post felt to me as scummy, trying to see where a town created wagon might exist that he could jump on and then plead innocence that he just we just one of many misvotes.

gkrieg - you say  "this is the first game I’m in with them where they don’t scream scum to me" - can you recall in other games where they did scream scummy, where they actually scum or town? i.e. in Memento for a long bit he screamed scummy (imo) but turned out to be town. In other words, I think town mathdude is usually more aggressive, and this more passive mathdude reads to be as trying to hid among the town.