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[2.71828.....]

vote: faust

Hmmm

2.5 hours to go and gkrieg is acting like wants to be exiled.

At least, not joining a viable alternative

[iguanaiguana]

I am starting to become worried about Joth. MiX has mentioned scumslips from Joth and this one was brought up:

I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.

So if I'm parsing MiX right, this is a scumslip because Joth says in (in one frame of mind) "all three scum are active and good at the game" -- He's telling a truth here at least about himself. He's proud of his high activity scum play, which is markedly different from many (but not all) of his scum games and considers that he's playing this game well so far.

Then he slips back into his deception mode, and considers what his fake scumreads should be. He lands on Swowl, who he feels others think should be scummy. And doesn't notice that he's made a contradiction in that he just said "all three scum are active" and switched to calling his top scumread, who has not been at all active.

So if that is actually a scumslip, it's sort of a convoluted one? But it's one that I can at least understand, which is more than I can say about many scumslip arguments.

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

[gkrieg13]

Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?

Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

My read on EFHW has changed. You are taking only my read on mathdude as not changing.

What do you think about any of my recent posts? Do they not matter?

[gkrieg13]

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm not willing to vote gkrieg. And I think his wagon is scummy.

I'm really surprised there was no response from mathdude about my comments on his wall post.

I don't like my options here. I know we're all about consolidating, but if math isn't going to be an option then I'm leaning toward faust or Didds or MiX or Jimmmmm.

Reply to wall post... sort of.

I didn't think there was much there to respond to... the only main issue you seemed to have was that I skipped stuff and you thought I skipped the good stuff. There was a lot of posts I was quoting and responding to doing the reread. I had to pick some to skip. I kept the ones that stood out to me as I skimmed through. Even 1 or 2 of the long ones, I snipped, yes. I admit (and admitted at the time), I don't/didn't have a closed, condemning case. I was just providing my thoughts as I reread. Of course we would see the importance of some statements differ. That's part of the game.

My point was that you took a post with helpful content, snipped that content, and then presented what was left as an example of an unhelpful post.

And Math's point is that he found me wordy (true) and snipped out half of my post because he felt it was repetitive. If you look back on his comments, he wasn't cutting out a portion of my case so as to make it look like a weaker case. He was highlighting a portion of my reread of Joth because he wanted to highlight that I was townreading Joth and that we could be buddies.

To me, it makes sense that Math would have been suspicious of me because 1) I pushed his wagon all of D1 and 2) I pushed against Joth's wagon D1. Joth was the main D1 alternative wagon to him, so people who both rejected that wagon and pushed his wagon are going to look scummy to him.

So yeah at first when I looked at what you called the snipping distortion that you pointed out, I thought it looked bad. But actually... He never said I didn't give reasons. He accused me of buddying Joth. And if buddying Joth was what he was seeing, there was evidence for that both in the part he snipped and the part he left.

[iguanaiguana]

Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?

Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

My read on EFHW has changed. You are taking only my read on mathdude as not changing.

What do you think about any of my recent posts? Do they not matter?

I think they matter less unfortunately because they were written under pressure and I think you can create something convincing under pressure when necessary. I also didn't see anything in there that surprised me or caused me to re-assess my opinion on how you are seeing things this game.

[iguanaiguana]

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

That is a minor point about you. I thought you were scummy when I was closer to null on Joth as well.

[gkrieg13]

Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?

Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

My read on EFHW has changed. You are taking only my read on mathdude as not changing.

What do you think about any of my recent posts? Do they not matter?

I think they matter less unfortunately because they were written under pressure and I think you can create something convincing under pressure when necessary. I also didn't see anything in there that surprised me or caused me to re-assess my opinion on how you are seeing things this game.

So next time I'm not engaged in a game and have a wagon on me, I just shouldn't try to post anything because it has no chance of changing people's minds because it was written under pressure?

Cool. What a colossal waste of my time.

[iguanaiguana]

-snip-

My read on EFHW has changed.  -snip-

You've mentioned this several times, but where in the thread, before you were at X-1, can we even see that? Mostly what I've seen is that you defended EFHW and EFHW defended you.

[iguanaiguana]

Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?

Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

My read on EFHW has changed. You are taking only my read on mathdude as not changing.

What do you think about any of my recent posts? Do they not matter?

I think they matter less unfortunately because they were written under pressure and I think you can create something convincing under pressure when necessary. I also didn't see anything in there that surprised me or caused me to re-assess my opinion on how you are seeing things this game.

So next time I'm not engaged in a game and have a wagon on me, I just shouldn't try to post anything because it has no chance of changing people's minds because it was written under pressure?

Cool. What a colossal waste of my time.

No, maybe next time don't lurk until you're at X-1 though?

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy hey… we have two hours?

Are we still thinking gkrieg? Iguana, it looks like you’re rethinking?

[gkrieg13]

Didds, please do the honors.

[gkrieg13]

Next time I will just not come back into the thread to engage.

[jotheonah]

I am starting to become worried about Joth. MiX has mentioned scumslips from Joth and this one was brought up:

I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.

So if I'm parsing MiX right, this is a scumslip because Joth says in (in one frame of mind) "all three scum are active and good at the game" -- He's telling a truth here at least about himself. He's proud of his high activity scum play, which is markedly different from many (but not all) of his scum games and considers that he's playing this game well so far.

Then he slips back into his deception mode, and considers what his fake scumreads should be. He lands on Swowl, who he feels others think should be scummy. And doesn't notice that he's made a contradiction in that he just said "all three scum are active" and switched to calling his top scumread, who has not been at all active.

So if that is actually a scumslip, it's sort of a convoluted one? But it's one that I can at least understand, which is more than I can say about many scumslip arguments.

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

But Swowl has been active day 2.

[WestCoastDidds]

MIX, what’s you’re thinking?

PPE: some

[jotheonah]

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

yeah I'm sorry I think my defense of you may have done more harm than good. to both of us.

[iguanaiguana]

Howdy hey… we have two hours?

Are we still thinking gkrieg? Iguana, it looks like you’re rethinking?

No, I think gkrieg is our best shot.

[iguanaiguana]

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

yeah I'm sorry I think my defense of you may have done more harm than good. to both of us.

Swowl has the lowest # of posts in the thread, I just checked.

[jotheonah]

gkrieg's frustration here is relatable, but not alignment indicative. I could see this coming from scum or town.

the VT claim from gkrieg is pretty towny. all other things equal, scum should claim a PR at X1 so they can at worst get a counterclaim out of their exile and at best buy another day. That's best play in most cases.

scum!gkrieg should only claim VT if he thinks that it will somehow get him off the hook, and there was no indication here that it would. Doesn't that give anyone else pause?

Unvote

[gkrieg13]

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

yeah I'm sorry I think my defense of you may have done more harm than good. to both of us.

Swowl has the lowest # of posts in the thread, I just checked.

So now you'll vote for him right?

[jotheonah]

(just unvoting because I don't want Didds to hammer before someone replies to my post about the claim)

[iguanaiguana]

I quoted the wrong Joth post there. I meant to quote him saying Swowl has been active D2.

I don't know if I would vote Swowl. faust made sure that was not a viable wagon today. I don't think I like voting Swowl when faust is saying that it's a bad choice. That could definitely change with my opinion of faust though.

[gkrieg13]

I quoted the wrong Joth post there. I meant to quote him saying Swowl has been active D2.

I don't know if I would vote Swowl. faust made sure that was not a viable wagon today. I don't think I like voting Swowl when faust is saying that it's a bad choice. That could definitely change with my opinion of faust though.

You really think that faust's reads are that good that you form your opinions based on his reads? And you are that sure about him being town?

[iguanaiguana]

My reaction to VT was that it gave no indication it would come from scum because I've seen scum claim VT at X-1 a million times.

So I don't really know what to make of your argument.

[iguanaiguana]

I quoted the wrong Joth post there. I meant to quote him saying Swowl has been active D2.

I don't know if I would vote Swowl. faust made sure that was not a viable wagon today. I don't think I like voting Swowl when faust is saying that it's a bad choice. That could definitely change with my opinion of faust though.

You really think that faust's reads are that good that you form your opinions based on his reads? And you are that sure about him being town?

No, I'm not sure about faust being town. But I also don't really want to talk about this more right now.