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[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmmm has been super quiet today.

It's true. I was keeping up super well but got a bit fatigued of it and had a few other things on my mind IRL. Also, Today feels more like a "Try to solve the game" Day rather than a "Respond to things as they come up" Day, and I've procrastinated the trying to solve the game a little.

[WestCoastDidds]

Well, it’s your turn to claim and we’d love it if you’d solve the game, too

[Jimmmmm]

I'm a VT.

[Jimmmmm]

Looking at the start of Day 3, it seems at the very least e's claim was premeditated.

[WestCoastDidds]

Do you buy that he saw the result and got excited??

[Jimmmmm]

Do you buy that he saw the result and got excited??

I haven't read that part yet haha. Sounds kinda sketchy though.

[WestCoastDidds]

Do you buy that he saw the result and got excited??

I haven't read that part yet haha. Sounds kinda sketchy though.

It would be totally on brand for me! This is why I’m checking…

[Jimmmmm]

Sorry on brand with what?

[WestCoastDidds]

Sorry on brand with what?

To get all excited when I have a result and whiff the claim

[Jimmmmm]

Overall this is a good post, and if true the "I always lurk as scum" argument could be compelling. I did get a couple of scum pings from it though.

"2.7 tricked me D2 into still thinking he was town by backing off his Math scumread shortly after I announced that I also had backed off it."
Something about "2.7 tricked me" seems unnecessarily accusatory.

"I'm guessing that scum must have looked through my ISO last night and guessed from my active play that I was VT and decided that would make me a good person to try to incriminate."
Something about this seems ingenuine. It also seems like something of a contradiction to suggest that scum were able to figure out that he was a VT, but also didn't know his meta.

[mathdude]

Overall this is a good post, and if true the "I always lurk as scum" argument could be compelling. I did get a couple of scum pings from it though.

"2.7 tricked me D2 into still thinking he was town by backing off his Math scumread shortly after I announced that I also had backed off it."
Something about "2.7 tricked me" seems unnecessarily accusatory.

"I'm guessing that scum must have looked through my ISO last night and guessed from my active play that I was VT and decided that would make me a good person to try to incriminate."
Something about this seems ingenuine. It also seems like something of a contradiction to suggest that scum were able to figure out that he was a VT, but also didn't know his meta.

I had similar feelings about that and I think a few other of iguana's posts.

Regarding the item raised here first by Jimmmmm... iguana knowing his meta. Unfortunately, being aware of it, and then posting such, makes meta discussion (such as lurking when scum) less relevant. Once you say you're aware of it, you can more actively try to navigate it to your advantage.

And then yes, being so certain of why scum picked to frame him sounds sketchy, and very elaborate. Although, I guess it's not that different than my assumption earlier that I would have suspected e, if a real cop, would have targeted me or someone else controversial, rather than iguana.

[Jimmmmm]

Regarding the item raised here first by Jimmmmm... iguana knowing his meta. Unfortunately, being aware of it, and then posting such, makes meta discussion (such as lurking when scum) less relevant. Once you say you're aware of it, you can more actively try to navigate it to your advantage.

This is true generally, but I think the argument of "I always try to be active as scum but never manage it" holds a bit more water than other self-meta arguments.

[mathdude]

Just need Swowl's claim now, I believe.

[Jimmmmm]

Why on earth do you lie as town in a semi open setup where your claim has bearing on how likely everyone else's claims are and vice versa? Lying about being cop as town has the potential to create, EG, a counterclaim from the actual cop in a CCC situation or just produce so many letters that it's a 1% chance to occur situation. So at best you are making people believe your lie but then they exile another town PR by mistake.

But if you are scum, that's a good outcome to get that counterclaim, so faking full cop is a fine play.

This is not a setup where town lies about their role because they're all related.

This feels like a strawman.

[Jimmmmm]

So 2.7's EoD2 play is actually very scummy.

This may be minor, but the word "actually" jumped out at me here. If iguana's Town, then he knows e is scum, so wouldn't be surprised to find scumminess. "Actually" sounds like he was pleasantly surprised to find scumminess, which is more in line with scum iguana and Town e.

[Jimmmmm]

Vote Count 1.Final

Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, jotheonah
mathdude (5): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkreig13, Jimmmmm, EFHW
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it took 7 to exile.

The more I look back the more I think math is in fact scum.

One reason why math didn't get exiled D1, I colored the wagon just for fun, even if you flip red/green with iguana and me that wagon on math looks pretty towny and then has that single bus.

The problem with this is that mathdude's on me, so the joth wagon also has at most one scum.

[Jimmmmm]

e, what were you trying to achieve by "stringing it along", but also immediately calling iguana scum and voting for him without providing much of a reason?

Also, when did you decide that iguana would be your target? Did you think much during the Night about what you might do with whatever result you got?

[2.71828.....]

e, what were you trying to achieve by "stringing it along", but also immediately calling iguana scum and voting for him without providing much of a reason?

Also, when did you decide that iguana would be your target? Did you think much during the Night about what you might do with whatever result you got?

 I did not think much overnight about what I would do whatever the result. I had a short period of time between getting the result and the thread opening, and in that period is where I developed all my wonderful ideas. Immediately calling iguana scum was meant as a soft claim of sorts. The overconfidence was meant to spur reactions, then I would follow with my claim. Originally, the whole full cop/1-shot cop was meant to draw the NK N3 then end up not actually being as important since I was 1-shot. I decided that lying wasn't a good idea, so I would just claim "cop with a N2 result" and see who would press me for additional results, imagining that they might be scum. In my mind, I wasn't lying, I was withholding information. Which, yeah, not telling the full truth is a lie, especially because my intention was for people to imagine me as a full cop. I did want to claim before any sort of mass claim, the idea being that scum doesn't need any additional info, and town can use their PRs as they see fit, and I trust town to do what is right. At least what they think is right.

I put iguana down as an initial target at the start of the night with the thought to go back and rethink if I should target someone else. I didn't do that and just stayed on iguana.

[iguanaiguana]

So 2.7's EoD2 play is actually very scummy.

This may be minor, but the word "actually" jumped out at me here. If iguana's Town, then he knows e is scum, so wouldn't be surprised to find scumminess. "Actually" sounds like he was pleasantly surprised to find scumminess, which is more in line with scum iguana and Town e.

I think I used actually there because I had been townreading 2.7 all the way to pretty much the start of D3. So when I first read EoD2 it did not strike me that 2.7 was scum at that time. But then when I read back over his play knowing that he is scum, it struck me that he was being very scummy EoD2.

[iguanaiguana]

Why on earth do you lie as town in a semi open setup where your claim has bearing on how likely everyone else's claims are and vice versa? Lying about being cop as town has the potential to create, EG, a counterclaim from the actual cop in a CCC situation or just produce so many letters that it's a 1% chance to occur situation. So at best you are making people believe your lie but then they exile another town PR by mistake.

But if you are scum, that's a good outcome to get that counterclaim, so faking full cop is a fine play.

This is not a setup where town lies about their role because they're all related.

This feels like a strawman.

I think that's fair actually. When 2.7 first claimed on me, I had a very deer in the headlights reaction of knowing he was scum but having no idea why he was scum or why he chose me or why he did any of these decisions. So it took me quite a while to piece it together and figure out what his and his team's likely motivations were. At first when I was reading his claim, it seemed like he was just straight lying in his claim and this was a borderline scumslip, but actually I don't think that's what we're looking at. 

What it seems more likely to be now is that 2.7 did a thought experiment of, if I were a 1-shot cop with a scum result on Iguana, how would I do it. And he thought, maybe I would pretend to be a full cop to get reactions, maybe I would string it out, etc.

All the same, the way that his claim played out in a wishy washy way and not a straightforward way to me is still an indication that this is a fantasy claim, and that 2.7 was considering multiple ways of doing it before he settled on one.

[iguanaiguana]

Overall this is a good post, and if true the "I always lurk as scum" argument could be compelling. I did get a couple of scum pings from it though.

"2.7 tricked me D2 into still thinking he was town by backing off his Math scumread shortly after I announced that I also had backed off it."
Something about "2.7 tricked me" seems unnecessarily accusatory.

"I'm guessing that scum must have looked through my ISO last night and guessed from my active play that I was VT and decided that would make me a good person to try to incriminate."
Something about this seems ingenuine. It also seems like something of a contradiction to suggest that scum were able to figure out that he was a VT, but also didn't know his meta.

What 2.7 did when he changed his read on Mathdude had the effect of tricking me into thinking he was towny. I will give you that I can't really discern whether that was something 2.7 did on purpose or whether it just had that effect and 2.7 had something else in mind by changing his read there (probably the latter).

The second part I think was very much the deer in the headlights effect. I've entertained a lot of ideas since 2.7 claimed on me for why they picked me. Ultimately, what actually makes sense to me is that they felt they could win more easily by using a fake result to incriminate someone that a lot of the town thought was towny, and therefore be up against people that a lot of the town think of as scummy during the LyLo that will result if you exile me. I think the fact that 2.7 admits that he tends to overestimate himself makes a lot of sense too for why he would pick this fight and expect to win.

[WestCoastDidds]

Swowl! Where you at?

[Swowl]

Sorry weird weekend.
Home in an hour.

[MiX]

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 3 will end Wednesday, October 6, 2021, at 3:00 pm forum time.

Daily reminder that Swowl needs to claim and this day has a deadline.

Oh, look at who I was about to prod.

[Swowl]

Sorry, there was a lot in a short window I had to deal with. Completely missed you have been waiting on me.

I am VT.

Sorry for not correcting faust earlier, but I figured if we ended up not claiming all the way I would draw a kill, so I leaned into it a bit.