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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next  (Read 12005 times)

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Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2021, 05:41:50 pm »
+1

This idea I had was something of a wording challenge itself:


Rewards predicting opponents' moves correctly. The intention is that if a player has multiple Offers in play with one kind of card under them, they can't score for them, to help limit easy situations like stacking up Provinces. Thrones won't work either; maybe 'one copy under one of their Offers' would be clearer.
Province stacking for Salt the Earth like play...I hope is OK for extra interactivity. But sacrificing draw and VP potential for it (with a terminal stop card out of the deck too) could make for a very sad move when the leader does it.
Probably worth a revision when time permits.

Edit: and I don't know of any Duration that can lose its card between turns. Would the rule be that Offer is discarded whenever the last card under it goes?

Edit 2: Restricted to non-Victory, used above 'one copy...' wording and increased VP to 2.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 05:25:25 am by Aquila »
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2021, 06:32:47 pm »
0

(open for suggestions for an better name)
Eastern Hireling $5
Action - Duration

+1 Action
Now and on the start of your turn +1 card
-
Any player may pay $2 on their turn to discard this card from play.

Hey this needs a rewording. I think I get what you're trying to do but as-is it just keeps giving you +1 Card at the start of your turn if other players discard it. Maybe something like

Quote
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is in play at the start of your turn, +1 Card.
-
Any player may pay $2 on their turn to discard this from play.

which I think gets across everything you were trying to say in your wording
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 06:42:29 pm by spineflu »
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2021, 06:42:05 pm »
0

Escort - $4
Action - Duration
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Put a coin token on here for each $ it cost.
At the start of your turn, you may remove one coin token from here to discard your hand and draw 5 cards.

Is this a paid-for Guide? Yep! Could it be done as a mat with tokens as well? Sure it could! Has it been done in a previous WDC? Probably, I've been skimming them for a while now. Is it priced right? Almost certainly not!

I think this needs "while any remain" for the second part. As worded, it stays in play forever even when you've run out of tokens, as it still gives you the choice every turn even though it's meaningless.

I don't think it does - durations stay out until they're out of things to do, right? So on a spendable-tokens-duration, if there's no tokens remaining, that's when it's done, it's discarded at the next cleanup step.

EDIT: I guess this also applies to grep's "War Bond" but grep made revisions on that to make it clear so, that works too.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 06:58:07 pm by spineflu »
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2021, 07:15:40 pm »
+1



War bond
$4 - Action - Duration
+1 Action
Put 1 Coffer onto this for each Action card in play (including this). At the start of your subsequent turns, take a Coffer from this. If none left, discard this.


1. Is this intentionally counting other player's Duration cards?
2. There's already a precedent for this kind of effect; Crypt uses "while any remain", so this should be "while any remain, at the start of each of your turns, take a Coffer from this."

Galley
$6
Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, choose one: exile a card from your hand, or exile this for +3 cards.
 
I started with a design almost identical to mxdata’s rubbish collector (shortly before that was posted). Mine was $4, and said "at the start of each of your turns, choose one: trash a card from your hand, or discard this." 
 
However, I made a “permanent trasher” for a previous contest, and one issue that I didn't solve with that previous card is it felt like it should be a project because of the permanent effect once in play and the fact that you generally would buy only one.
 
Thinking about how to avoid that issue, I decided that my card needed an alternate effect that would correspond to being removed from play. I decided that removed from play should be exile rather than discard. The fact that it is exiled and not discarded presents a higher cost to getting it back, and means that without an appropriate gainer you can’t replay it the same turn you used it for the alternate effect. The card exiling itself also provides a particularly strong reason why a player might buy more than one.
 
Once the card exiled itself, it seemed thematic to exile cards from hand as well. Exiling reduces the downside of drawing an early hand of cards that you don't want to exile (but when you still have other junk in your deck). Hopefully the start of turn limitation means that it doesn’t as easily support simple “golden decks” that buy and exile a province each turn. It started at $5, but I was concerned that was too cheap and it was too strong an opener.
There are wording issues here. First of all, it says "at the start of your turn" which would usually just refer to the turn that this is played, so this would do nothing. That should be "at the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game". However, then it would still be active once you exiled it. So this needs to be fixed up in some way.

To elaborate on faust's comment: A common mistake I've seen in fan cards is creators assuming that Duration cards that make themselves leave play stop their effect once they leave play. This is not true; you can Bonfire a Hireling and still get +1 Card every turn even though that Hireling is no longer in play. So as worded, Galley's effect will still keep proccing every turn.

My suggested wording to fix this problem: "At the start of each of your turns that this remains in play, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards."

P.S.: Spineflu, maybe you should add this "there is no rule saying that Durations just stop proccing if they leave play, you need special wording for that" detail to the OP?

Added; good phrasing.
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ConMan

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2021, 08:39:09 pm »
+1

Escort - $4
Action - Duration
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Put a coin token on here for each $ it cost.
At the start of your turn, you may remove one coin token from here to discard your hand and draw 5 cards.

Is this a paid-for Guide? Yep! Could it be done as a mat with tokens as well? Sure it could! Has it been done in a previous WDC? Probably, I've been skimming them for a while now. Is it priced right? Almost certainly not!

I think this needs "while any remain" for the second part. As worded, it stays in play forever even when you've run out of tokens, as it still gives you the choice every turn even though it's meaningless.
I originally had that in the wording of the card, but it looked like it was going to make the text smaller than I'd like so I was going to have it as a side ruling that you discard it in Clean-up when there are no tokens left. If people think that it should be in the card text then I'm fine adding it back in.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2021, 11:38:39 pm »
+1

Escort - $4
Action - Duration
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Put a coin token on here for each $ it cost.
At the start of your turn, you may remove one coin token from here to discard your hand and draw 5 cards.

Is this a paid-for Guide? Yep! Could it be done as a mat with tokens as well? Sure it could! Has it been done in a previous WDC? Probably, I've been skimming them for a while now. Is it priced right? Almost certainly not!

I think this needs "while any remain" for the second part. As worded, it stays in play forever even when you've run out of tokens, as it still gives you the choice every turn even though it's meaningless.
I originally had that in the wording of the card, but it looked like it was going to make the text smaller than I'd like so I was going to have it as a side ruling that you discard it in Clean-up when there are no tokens left. If people think that it should be in the card text then I'm fine adding it back in.

I think it should have that wording back in just to make it explicit. I don't think it's a good idea to rely on an FAQ for fanmade cards to work properly.
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ConMan

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2021, 12:44:45 am »
0

I think it should have that wording back in just to make it explicit. I don't think it's a good idea to rely on an FAQ for fanmade cards to work properly.
That's reasonable. I'll edit the wording to make it properly accountable.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2021, 02:24:34 am »
+6

Philosopher
Action/Duration - $5
+$2
You may put your deck in your discard pile.
While this remains in play, +$2 at the start of your turns.
---
When you shuffle your deck, discard this from play

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Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2021, 05:31:54 am »
0

Philosopher
Action/Duration - $5
+$2
You may put your deck in your discard pile.
While this remains in play, +$2 at the start of your turns.
---
When you shuffle your deck, discard this from play
I think this can infinitely play itself; your deck has just one Philosopher (B) in the discard pile, you play a Philosopher A from hand with the +Card token on it to draw Philosopher B, you reshuffled so Philosopher A is discarded, play B to redraw A, repeat. Put in Capitalism and the +Buy token for infinite buying power.
A lot of work to pull off of course, but doable.
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The Alchemist

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2021, 09:22:43 am »
+1



Part pageant part gain a card with debt, bookkeeper checks every turn to see if you're still in debt and sticks around if you are, at a price of course. Nets to terminal +$3 (ish) and a gain, and is basically a cantrip workshop if you can remain in debt. Basically a duration that stays in play until you buy a card, letting you stockpile until then.

This card was originally checking debt at the end of buy phase, then playing at the start of next turn to avoid Capital's debt, but then I realized that card didn't really need to be a duration, but then again it isn't the most broken combo with Capital. Original had +4 coffers 5 debt, but people thought +4 coffers was too much to put on a card on play regardless of debt. I am partial to keeping it at 5 debt though if its too strong at 3 coffers still.
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Freddy10

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2021, 04:38:52 pm »
+5



Hirelings while you can play more of them
Edit: Discard condition under the line
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 04:09:47 pm by Freddy10 »
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Who trashes the trashers?

MochaMoko

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2021, 07:00:32 pm »
+1



Feel free to suggest wording changes (and, well, other changes besides, I suppose).
Compost can turn your junk into whatever you Wish! It's a solution to all junkers. Be it from outside or in, Compost takes care of it all. If you need more of its services, you can always gain a Compost back to your hand and put it into play again.

A "hidden" usage is to set aside green cards like Provinces while being sure not to make the Compost overflow, to ensure that your green never enters your deck. Nifty, ain't it?

This card has been buffed several times over the course of its conception. Now it's a lot stronger.

EDIT: removed +1 Action, made the Wish conditional on trashing. We're back boys.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 07:26:58 pm by MochaMoko »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2021, 07:48:32 pm »
0



Feel free to suggest wording changes (and, well, other changes besides, I suppose).
Compost can turn your junk into whatever you Wish! It's a solution to all junkers. Be it from outside or in, Compost takes care of it all. If you need more of its services, you can always gain a Compost back to your hand and put it into play again.

A "hidden" usage is to set aside green cards like Provinces while being sure not to make the Compost overflow, to ensure that your green never enters your deck. Nifty, ain't it?

This card has been buffed several times over the course of its conception. Now it's a lot stronger.

Won't this keep working forever if played with BoM, Captain, or Necromancer? In all these cases, you fail to ever trash it.
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MochaMoko

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2021, 08:11:36 pm »
0


Won't this keep working forever if played with BoM, Captain, or Necromancer? In all these cases, you fail to ever trash it.

Correct, besides for Captain and Necromancer not being able to play this.
But yes, Band of Misfits, Overlord, and Inherited Estate will stay out for the rest of the game, because there is still something to do (the when you gain a card effect). If you trash it due to some other effect.... well darnit that's not something that it should care about. Maybe? I mean I guess it's better for tracking when you Bonfire it, but it might be weird if you're Overlording and Lurkering.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2021, 08:40:59 pm »
0



Feel free to suggest wording changes (and, well, other changes besides, I suppose).
Compost can turn your junk into whatever you Wish! It's a solution to all junkers. Be it from outside or in, Compost takes care of it all. If you need more of its services, you can always gain a Compost back to your hand and put it into play again.

A "hidden" usage is to set aside green cards like Provinces while being sure not to make the Compost overflow, to ensure that your green never enters your deck. Nifty, ain't it?

This card has been buffed several times over the course of its conception. Now it's a lot stronger.

Won't this keep working forever if played with BoM, Captain, or Necromancer? In all these cases, you fail to ever trash it.

Captain and Necromancer can't play Duration cards, but Band of Misfits and Overlord can (and, I suppose, Necromancer can indirectly if it plays one of those two cards). The way this is currently phrased, I believe the Command card would stay in play, be able to set aside cards, and when there were 3 or more, would trash them and give you a card, but would not trash itself (since Compost stays where it is). This is obviously way too powerful, and probably needs to be fixed.

Or, it would work that way, if the card worked, which I'm not sure it does. The rule for Duration cards is that during your discard phase, they check to see if they have something left to do. By your own description, this might never do anything else after it is played.

A third potential issue is that if the card is trashed by Bonfire, the cards could get stuck in set-aside limbo. That is not the biggest problem, since it is up to the player playing it (who could also choose to just stop gaining cards), and only has an effect in marginal cases when a gain-from-trash card would allow you to do that with more Composts than otherwise exist in the game.

I would suggest the following phrasing, which both makes clear that this does something at the start of each of your turns, and prevents the card from functioning if played by an emulator, and trashes the set-aside cards whenever it is trashed.

Quote from: Compost
+1 Action
Until after you trash this, at the start of each of your turns, count the number of cards set aside on this. If there are 3 or more, trash this. If you did, gain a card to your hand costing up to $6.

While this is in play, when you gain a card you may set it aside face up (on this).
When you trash this, trash the cards set aside on it.

Even with all of these functional repairs, I still think this card is overpowered. It acts as a passive, persistent, complete Defense to all junking attacks (including all Cursers) except for Coven. The on-gain means you can just chain these, and they collectively can absorb the entire Curse pile in games of up to 4 players (and even more if multiple Cursers are played before a turn, resulting in more than three cards on Compost before the player's turn). That makes opening with one of these in a game where you face junking an obvious choice, which in turn makes junkers unbuyable, which would therefore make Compost less interesting/useful in most games. It also has the potential to be crazy powerful with self-junkers like Banquet, Cache, and Desperation; what would usually be a penalty is instead 1/3 or 2/3 of a Wish.
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MochaMoko

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2021, 09:51:29 pm »
0

I'm glad you have a lot to say about my card!

I don't think a Command card playing this is obviously way too powerful. You keep the Command card in play forever. If you wanted a Compost, well, Compost was right there for you to buy. It's true that now you get a Project-like ability where a bunch of cards gained can turn into a Wish. Is it worth sacrificing your Band of Misfits or Overlord for that? I wouldn't call that obvious. If we are really worried about this interaction, it can be an "if you did," as you suggested.

I'm pretty sure the Duration effect works. Compost can check if it's been trashed, so at the start of Clean-up, it asks, "Have I been trashed? If I haven't, I've still got work to do." And so it stays out. The effect's duration is from when Compost is played until it gets trashed.

You are 100% right that if it gets trashed by other means, the cards it's set aside have nowhere to go. I hate Bonfire for being like that, but I'm pretty sure no other card makes that issue arise. My approach has been if Bonfire is the one causing the problem, Bonfire should be the one that gets errata. It causes tracking problems with existing cards as well.
I don't want to put the when-gain-card-set-aside ability on the bottom, because then it can get weird with Ways. Imagine you play this with Way of the Pig or something, and buy a Province. Well, it's not staying in play, but the Province is set aside regardless.

I understand the concern that this completely nullifies junkers. It does! Compost is not that difficult to put in play. I could get rid of the +Action. That way it will be a lot harder to put into play. How about it?
Edit: By the way, I'm not too convinced that being a flat out counter to junkers makes this card unable to exist. But I will concede if people think it really is too easy and not fun. I mean, on a Compost board, you'll just not get the junker, most likely, and go do something else. And then the other players may or may not want to get a Compost. Then it becomes a question of okay, do I get the junker and hope to play it before people put up their portcullis? There is still some interplay there. I don't want to get Compost early if I can help it.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 10:28:43 pm by MochaMoko »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #66 on: July 08, 2021, 12:52:55 am »
0

Even with all of these functional repairs, I still think this card is overpowered. It acts as a passive, persistent, complete Defense to all junking attacks (including all Cursers) except for Coven. The on-gain means you can just chain these, and they collectively can absorb the entire Curse pile in games of up to 4 players (and even more if multiple Cursers are played before a turn, resulting in more than three cards on Compost before the player's turn). That makes opening with one of these in a game where you face junking an obvious choice, which in turn makes junkers unbuyable, which would therefore make Compost less interesting/useful in most games. It also has the potential to be crazy powerful with self-junkers like Banquet, Cache, and Desperation; what would usually be a penalty is instead 1/3 or 2/3 of a Wish.

Any kingdom with lots of extra buys would make this really strong, too.  Just buy up some Coppers or Curses with your extra buys.  Goons would be a killer combo.  Buy Coppers for the VP and stash them away on this, then trash for another Goons (if you have enough extra actions to support more Goons)
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #67 on: July 08, 2021, 02:50:43 am »
0

I'm glad you have a lot to say about my card!

I don't think a Command card playing this is obviously way too powerful. You keep the Command card in play forever. If you wanted a Compost, well, Compost was right there for you to buy. It's true that now you get a Project-like ability where a bunch of cards gained can turn into a Wish. Is it worth sacrificing your Band of Misfits or Overlord for that? I wouldn't call that obvious. If we are really worried about this interaction, it can be an "if you did," as you suggested.

Wishes are extremely powerful, and therefore getting them is difficult and/or limited. And using a Wish is also limited by the "if you did" language on the card itself. Compost itself is also limited by making the Wish effect a one-shot. By contrast, playing a Compost with a Band of Misfits has the potential to give you a Wish effect multiple times from playing a single card; potentially, you could get it at the start of every turn for the rest of the game. Leaving aside self-junkers or junk gainers (Cache, Banquet, Treasure Trove, Beggar, Baron, IGG, Count), this transforms every spare +Buy into 1/3 of a Wish for the rest of the game. I won't list all of the non-terminal +Buy cards, but there are more than enough to make this combination massively overpowered. It is an easy decision to give up a Band of Misfits for this effect. Overlord is somewhat of a more difficult case, but I am almost certainly doing it if there are any of the supporting cards previously mentioned.


I'm pretty sure the Duration effect works. Compost can check if it's been trashed, so at the start of Clean-up, it asks, "Have I been trashed? If I haven't, I've still got work to do." And so it stays out. The effect's duration is from when Compost is played until it gets trashed.

Maybe, but that's not how any official Duration card works. Every single one that stays in play will do something on the next turn. I certainly agree that there is one understanding of how Durations work that applies to this card, but I'm nots sure it clearly fits the rules. It is probably okay to say this would be clarified in the FAQ, but I do think at a minimum it needs that clarification.


You are 100% right that if it gets trashed by other means, the cards it's set aside have nowhere to go. I hate Bonfire for being like that, but I'm pretty sure no other card makes that issue arise. My approach has been if Bonfire is the one causing the problem, Bonfire should be the one that gets errata. It causes tracking problems with existing cards as well.
I don't want to put the when-gain-card-set-aside ability on the bottom, because then it can get weird with Ways. Imagine you play this with Way of the Pig or something, and buy a Province. Well, it's not staying in play, but the Province is set aside regardless.

In my opinion, fan created cards should always defer to official cards. However, as you pointed out, Bonfire has some issues with Durations in the official game, and the effect of this one is not to serious, so changing it isn't strictly necessary (especially with your point about Ways).


I understand the concern that this completely nullifies junkers. It does! Compost is not that difficult to put in play. I could get rid of the +Action. That way it will be a lot harder to put into play. How about it?

Getting rid of the +Action helps a bit, but it doesn't really matter if having this card on the board means the junker's are never purchased. Is it worth getting a $5 Moat to force your opponent to play a terminal card every three shuffles? Of course not. There are marginal cases with things like Ambassador (which has a fairly useful non-junking function), but for the most part the cards simply will never get bought, and therefore minor nerf like that won't fix the card.

The only fix I can think of would be to not allow putting a card under Compost if there is already a copy of it under there. This would make it so that each copy only blocked one use of a junker, would make other synergies (e.g. with Banquet or Cache) much less overpowered, and would require a player to forego something besides a Copper and a Curse to get the Wish effect. (It would still be incredibly effective against Looter attacks, but there are few enough of those to not make this totally overpowered, and there is at least one even better defense against those, Way of the Horse).


Edit: By the way, I'm not too convinced that being a flat out counter to junkers makes this card unable to exist. But I will concede if people think it really is too easy and not fun. I mean, on a Compost board, you'll just not get the junker, most likely, and go do something else. And then the other players may or may not want to get a Compost. Then it becomes a question of okay, do I get the junker and hope to play it before people put up their portcullis? There is still some interplay there. I don't want to get Compost early if I can help it.

So, this is all subjective and a matter of opinion, but here is why I disagree. The great thing about Dominion is all of the interesting ways in which the different cards and landscapes interact within each Kingdom to make every game at least a little different. If your card makes an entire category of cards useless, the overall potential for those interesting interactions decreases, rather than increases (unless you think your card is more interesting than all of the official junkers combined). People talk about cards being strictly better or strictly worse than another card. The reason that is important is that if Card A that is strictly worse than Card B, in any Kingdom where they both are present Card A would never be bought, and there are fewer potential interactions. If your card does that with several existing cards, that a substantially bigger problem.

Now, of course, this is a fan card, and (unlike an official card, which could potentially go into a randomizer deck with every other card), it might be fine to design a card that you could just say would never be played with junkers. But since you're submitting it to the contest, and generally one of the criteria on which cards are judged is balance with other cards in the game, I think this is a big problem.

I also think your analysis here is flawed. First, even if you wait until after your opponent buys a junker to buy this, that would mean that the junker would most like only get off one attack before it is rendered useless. Again, that is never going to be worth it with any of the junkers. Moreover, that analysis ignores all of the other reasons to buy Compost. I am opening with this version of Compost in basically 100% of Kingdoms with Cache or Banquet or Skulk or Desperation or Ritual. In any Kingdom where I anticipate getting a +Buy card, I may not open with this, but I certainly would get it early on a $3 hit. As mxdata pointed out, you can easily buy a Copper (or even a Curse, to preemptively weaken the Curser further) with each one, and turning a +Buy into 1/3 of a Wish is, just by itself, stupid powerful. (I also completely agree with their point about Goons.)
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

lompeluiten

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2021, 07:25:51 am »
+1

(open for suggestions for an better name)
Eastern Hireling $5
Action - Duration

+1 Action
Now and on the start of your turn +1 card
-
Any player may pay $2 on their turn to discard this card from play.

Hey this needs a rewording. I think I get what you're trying to do but as-is it just keeps giving you +1 Card at the start of your turn if other players discard it. Maybe something like

Quote
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is in play at the start of your turn, +1 Card.
-
Any player may pay $2 on their turn to discard this from play.

which I think gets across everything you were trying to say in your wording
Jeah, I was thinking about the same thing. I agree with that wording.

Eastern Hireling $5
Action - Duration
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is in play at the start of your turn, +1 Card.
-
Any player may pay $2 on their turn to discard this from play.
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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2021, 12:46:49 pm »
0

Jeah, I was thinking about the same thing. I agree with that wording.

Eastern Hireling $5
Action - Duration
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is in play at the start of your turn, +1 Card.
-
Any player may pay $2 on their turn to discard this from play.

I don't think you want to allow this to be paid at any point. It leads to major rules issues like "can I play Poor House, get $4 and then pay it immediately before I lose $ for treasures in my hand." It would also be a big problem for any online implementation. From a rules perspective, I'd suggest something more like Wine Merchant, "At the end of any player's Buy phase, they may pay $2 to discard this from play."   

More substantively, this card looks problematic for multiple reasons. In 2-player games because it could lead to situations when instead of building their own decks players spend most of their $ to discard each others' Eastern Hirelings. And even if players are still building their decks it can lead to instances where a player is virtually certain to win but has to spend most of their resources each turn burying their opponents' Eastern Hirelings, similar in effect to the worst parts of Ambassador. 

It's also perhaps overpowered in 3-player games because players won't want to spend $2 to hurt only a single opponent, and leads to king-making if they do have to decide whose Eastern Hirelings to pay to discard.

My idea to address these issues would be to instead word it as, "At the end of each player's Buy phase, if they have at least $2 unspent, each other player discards an Eastern Hireling from play."
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #70 on: July 08, 2021, 01:20:55 pm »
0



Hirelings while you can play more of them

Clarification question:
1: does this permanently stay in play when you manage to collide two acrobats? because if so, it doesn't qualify for the contest.

2, if the answer to 1 is "no": am I reading this right that it requires you to keep playing other acrobats on your turns for it to continue to stay in play? sort of "juggling", essentially?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 02:26:30 pm by spineflu »
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: 24 Hours Remain
« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2021, 02:04:18 pm »
+1

24 Hours Remain, get those cards/revisions in

Cards I have on the spreadsheet:
Pack Mule (mandioca15)
Craftsman (4est)
Mine Digger (majiponi)
Brewery (X-tra)
Refinery (AJL828)
Confessional (Xen3k)
Royal Barge (emtzalex)
Summoning Circle (Unjer)
Rubbish Collector (mxdata)
Escort (ConMan)
Eastern Hireling (lompeluiten)
River Guide (Doom_Shark)
Exhibit (faust)
War Bond (grep)
Galley (JW)
Offer (Aquila)
Philosopher (NoMoreFun)
Bookkeeper (The Alchemist)
Acrobat (Freddy10)
Compost (MochaMoko)

If you aren't on that list, let me know.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 03:10:30 pm by spineflu »
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Freddy10

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #72 on: July 08, 2021, 03:45:29 pm »
0



Hirelings while you can play more of them

Clarification question:
1: does this permanently stay in play when you manage to collide two acrobats? because if so, it doesn't qualify for the contest.

2, if the answer to 1 is "no": am I reading this right that it requires you to keep playing other acrobats on your turns for it to continue to stay in play? sort of "juggling", essentially?

2: Eventually you run out of acrobats (all are on play) and you have to discard all from play
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 03:48:30 pm by Freddy10 »
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #73 on: July 08, 2021, 03:47:07 pm »
0



Hirelings while you can play more of them

Clarification question:
1: does this permanently stay in play when you manage to collide two acrobats? because if so, it doesn't qualify for the contest.

2, if the answer to 1 is "no": am I reading this right that it requires you to keep playing other acrobats on your turns for it to continue to stay in play? sort of "juggling", essentially?

Eventually you run out of acrobats (all are on play) and you have to discard all from play

Is it that the "if you played an acrobat this turn" should be below the line? is that what I'm having trouble grokking with this? Because otherwise this is just a two-turn effect
Like something about this isn't clicking for me, and I'm not sure what it is.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 03:54:11 pm by spineflu »
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Freddy10

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #74 on: July 08, 2021, 04:01:13 pm »
+1



Hirelings while you can play more of them

Clarification question:
1: does this permanently stay in play when you manage to collide two acrobats? because if so, it doesn't qualify for the contest.

2, if the answer to 1 is "no": am I reading this right that it requires you to keep playing other acrobats on your turns for it to continue to stay in play? sort of "juggling", essentially?

Eventually you run out of acrobats (all are on play) and you have to discard all from play

Is it that the "if you played an acrobat this turn" should be below the line? is that what I'm having trouble grokking with this? Because otherwise this is just a two-turn effect
Like something about this isn't clicking for me, and I'm not sure what it is.

Yes, you are right, it shoud be;

Quote
Acrobat ($3)
Action - Duration

+1 Action
+1 Buy
-
At the end of your turn discard it unless you played an Acrobat this turn.
At the beginig of your turn, if this is in play: +1 Card

(Post updated)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 04:11:36 pm by Freddy10 »
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