Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All

Author Topic: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita  (Read 11369 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Timinou

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 486
  • Respect: +630
    • View Profile
Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« on: June 15, 2021, 03:48:10 pm »
+3

For Week 13, we will be exploring Edicts!

Edicts are landscape-shaped cards that introduce straight-up rule changes.  Unlike Events and Projects they don't need to be bought, and apply to all players.  They are similar to Landmarks, but in order to ensure that they could not be a Landmark instead, one of the rules this week will be that Edicts should not be tied to VP-scoring.

FYI, some Secret History on Landmarks:
Quote from: Donald X.
You could just make cards that modify the rules. I considered it way back when; it's a thing I've done in many games. I didn't do it because Dominion has kingdom cards filling that rule; they change the rules plenty. Dominion doesn't need other rules-changing cards. I considered it again later and still didn't want them. But I do have Events and now Landmarks. Events can change the rules, but only via the Event-buying mechanism, which is like buying a card without the card; it felt like a reasonable extension. Landmarks can change the rules, but only in these VP-making ways. While they are each a step towards just having randomizer cards that change the rules, they still both try hard to stay within limits, to only affect the game in a way best done via these mechanisms. In general the best way to change the rules in Dominion is still to have kingdom cards that do different things.

It's a simple enough concept, but I think the tricky part will be coming up with an Edict that wouldn't be better off as an Event or Project, and to come up with something that is subtle enough to maintain the essence of Dominion but meaningful enough to offer a fun and varied gameplay experience.

Judgement will be based on balance, uniqueness, and fun. 

I will set the deadline for submissions at 11:59PM UTC on June 23rd.
Logged

spineflu

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1365
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1338
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2021, 04:21:33 pm »
+1

A suggestion for a naming convention on these: name them after a continuous-tense verb, so that people can say, like, "we played a game with Juggling and Plowing" and it sounds pretty normal, but also isn't confused for regular cards/landscapes.

EDIT: this isn't my entry anymore; this is

Quote
Haggling Edict
When you buy a non-Victory card that does not already have an overpay effect, you may overpay for it. For each $3 you overpay, gain an additional copy of it.
what if everything had overpay?
now, admittedly, is it a good overpay? not fantastic. but it's also not gamebreaking, which I thought was more important.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 05:47:38 pm by spineflu »
Logged

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Respect: +1307
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2021, 05:11:57 pm »
0

For Week 13, we will be exploring Edicts!

Edicts are landscape-shaped cards that introduce straight-up rule changes.  Unlike Events and Projects they don't need to be bought, and apply to all players.  They are similar to Landmarks, but in order to ensure that they could not be a Landmark instead, one of the rules this week will be that Edicts should not be tied to VP-scoring.

FYI, some Secret History on Landmarks:
Quote from: Donald X.
You could just make cards that modify the rules. I considered it way back when; it's a thing I've done in many games. I didn't do it because Dominion has kingdom cards filling that rule; they change the rules plenty. Dominion doesn't need other rules-changing cards. I considered it again later and still didn't want them. But I do have Events and now Landmarks. Events can change the rules, but only via the Event-buying mechanism, which is like buying a card without the card; it felt like a reasonable extension. Landmarks can change the rules, but only in these VP-making ways. While they are each a step towards just having randomizer cards that change the rules, they still both try hard to stay within limits, to only affect the game in a way best done via these mechanisms. In general the best way to change the rules in Dominion is still to have kingdom cards that do different things.

It's a simple enough concept, but I think the tricky part will be coming up with an Edict that wouldn't be better off as an Event or Project, and to come up with something that is subtle enough to maintain the essence of Dominion but meaningful enough to offer a fun and varied gameplay experience.

Judgement will be based on balance, uniqueness, and fun. 

I will set the deadline for submissions at 11:59PM UTC on June 23rd.

What is the color code for Edicts?
Logged
They/them

Timinou

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 486
  • Respect: +630
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2021, 08:13:05 pm »
0

What is the color code for Edicts?

Good question...Im not actually sure if LastFootNote had one.  Perhaps spineflu can share the colour scheme that they used for Haggling.
Logged

kru5h

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
  • Respect: +329
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2021, 08:49:42 pm »
+2

Smelting is my entry:



I used the color of Ruins because that was easy, but the color doesn't quite match. Oh well, I don't think I'll be disqualified for color choice.

spineflu

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1365
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1338
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2021, 08:54:39 pm »
+2

What is the color code for Edicts?

Good question...Im not actually sure if LastFootNote had one.  Perhaps spineflu can share the colour scheme that they used for Haggling.

i just used 'shelters' since there hasn't been a very red landscape yet; iirc asper used a blueish-purple, but we've got hexes in purple now so, red.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2021, 09:00:05 pm by spineflu »
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7492
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10711
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2021, 09:57:35 am »
+1

Looks like I used pink with a gold border for Edicts.
Logged

grrgrrgrr

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
  • Respect: +387
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2021, 12:04:38 pm »
+2

A suggestion for a naming convention on these: name them after a continuous-tense verb, so that people can say, like, "we played a game with Juggling and Plowing" and it sounds pretty normal, but also isn't confused for regular cards/landscapes.


Quote
Haggling Edict
When you buy a non-Victory card that does not already have an overpay effect, you may overpay for it. For each $3 you overpay, gain an additional copy of it.
what if everything had overpay?
now, admittedly, is it a good overpay? not fantastic. but it's also not gamebreaking, which I thought was more important.

Don't wanna be that guy but... I think this works better as a $3 costing Event. "+1 Buy. The next time you buy a non-Victory card this turn, gain a copy."
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 12:06:27 pm by grrgrrgrr »
Logged

spineflu

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1365
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1338
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2021, 02:37:46 pm »
0

A suggestion for a naming convention on these: name them after a continuous-tense verb, so that people can say, like, "we played a game with Juggling and Plowing" and it sounds pretty normal, but also isn't confused for regular cards/landscapes.


Quote
Haggling Edict
When you buy a non-Victory card that does not already have an overpay effect, you may overpay for it. For each $3 you overpay, gain an additional copy of it.
what if everything had overpay?
now, admittedly, is it a good overpay? not fantastic. but it's also not gamebreaking, which I thought was more important.

Don't wanna be that guy but... I think this works better as a $3 costing Event. "+1 Buy. The next time you buy a non-Victory card this turn, gain a copy."
but that works with overpay cards. mine doesn't.

naitchman

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 242
  • Respect: +259
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2021, 12:32:03 am »
0

Looks like I used pink with a gold border for Edicts.

Do you have the numbers still?
Logged

naitchman

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 242
  • Respect: +259
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2021, 12:34:04 am »
+2

I'm impatient to find out the correct color, so I'm just gonna post this. Oh well, this week's competition will be colorful.
This is one I had made a little while ago (don't know if I ever posted it).
You can only buy the most expensive if you have the cheapest card in play.


Previous version


Edit: Made some minor changes to fix some problems.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 10:44:00 pm by naitchman »
Logged

emtzalex

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 787
  • Respect: +1381
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2021, 01:04:12 am »
+4

My Submission:
                                 
Quote from: Progress
PROGRESS
EDICT
When you buy a card, you may trash a card
from your hand that shares a type with it.
                                 

A relatively simple effect, it will tend to speed up decks, replacing the worse Treasure/Action/Victory card for the better one you buy (Silvers trashing Coppers, Mills trashing Estates, etc.). It's a relatively ineffective form of trashing (compared to Chapel, for example), but the fact that it's an Edict means that there's no opportunity cost in getting access to it.


Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1953
  • Respect: +1999
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2021, 01:21:46 am »
+2

Circular Economy
Edict
When you buy the last card from a pile, return all copies of it from the trash to the supply


No longer my entry
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 07:41:39 pm by NoMoreFun »
Logged

grrgrrgrr

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
  • Respect: +387
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2021, 04:21:27 am »
+3

Pretty gamewarping, I know, but I'd like to share this nontheless.



EDIT: This is the updated version. The old version is:

« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 02:36:40 am by grrgrrgrr »
Logged

fika monster

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 351
  • Respect: +342
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2021, 06:39:25 am »
0

Circular Economy
Edict
When you buy the last card from a pile, return all copies of it from the trash to the supply

What if there are no cards that can trash at all in the kingdom?
Logged

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3305
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +4951
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2021, 09:14:46 am »
+1

Circular Economy
Edict
When you buy the last card from a pile, return all copies of it from the trash to the supply

What if there are no cards that can trash at all in the kingdom?
Then this doesn't do anything. This is not a problem; neither does Tomb.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

mathdude

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 216
  • Respect: +228
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2021, 09:32:57 am »
+2

Edicts are landscape-shaped cards that introduce straight-up rule changes.  Unlike Events and Projects they don't need to be bought, and apply to all players.  They are similar to Landmarks, but in order to ensure that they could not be a Landmark instead, one of the rules this week will be that Edicts should not be tied to VP-scoring.

It's a simple enough concept, but I think the tricky part will be coming up with an Edict that wouldn't be better off as an Event or Project, and to come up with something that is subtle enough to maintain the essence of Dominion but meaningful enough to offer a fun and varied gameplay experience.

Looking at some of the submissions so far, it does seem a bit difficult to design an Edict that wouldn't be better served as a Project or Event (or at least couldn't easily be turned into one):
* Haggling, with its overpay, is effectively an opportunity cost like an Event (though the recommended change by grrgrrgrr doesn't fully capture the original design intent, but it could be modified a bit).
* Smelting could very easily be a Project (even a 0-cost one, but could also probably work at $2 or $3).
* Progress, being optional, could also be a Project.
The opportunity cost to turn an Edict into a 0-cost Project is one missed Buy, which is very minimal.

To me, Monarchy and Lucky Find fit the Edict type well.  They are mandatory changes that happen (and I can see the change happening in many Edicts during Setup, such as Lucky Find).  If Monarchy changed to a Project, you could choose when to start using it (if at all), which would totally change its purpose - as an Edict, it changes your game.

And with those thoughts, I submit...


Quote from: Rationing
The game does not end with 3 empty Supply piles, but with 5.

Setup: for each Kingdom Supply pile, use only half as many of each uniquely named card as usual (rounded up).

My starting thought for this was to use smaller Supply piles (possibly all, including things like Gold, Curses, etc.).  Or for Kingdome piles, maybe it would even scale per player (2 cards of each type per player, so 2-player games would have 4 cards per pile, 3-player with 6, 4-player with 8)... but then what would I do with things like Knights, Castles, etc.?  But with smaller piles, the game would end very quickly on 3-piles, significantly changing the game and the chance to develop big turns later in the game.  So it made sense to turn a 3-pile ending in something bigger - I figured 5 was a good number.

I could make the Edict a bit wordier, noting that a game ending by "pile-out" now requires 2 additional piles, to let Rationing scale up to 5 or 6 players, but I think that could be addressed in a rulebook for it, rather than on the card.  It is already wordy enough, to account for various Kingdom piles, like Split Piles (which would now by 3-3 instead of 5-5), Knights (which would remain unchanged), and Castles (which would only use the 8 unique cards, even in a 3- or 4-player game).
Logged
he/him

mathdude

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 216
  • Respect: +228
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2021, 09:36:44 am »
+1

Circular Economy
Edict
When you buy the last card from a pile, return all copies of it from the trash to the supply

What if there are no cards that can trash at all in the kingdom?
Then this doesn't do anything. This is not a problem; neither does Tomb.

To give Circular Economy a little more usefulness, I'd recommend changing it to "when you *GAIN* the last card..." as this would allow Curses to be resupplied.  Right now, the Edict's main benefit is 1-shot cards (that self-trash, not return to their pile), such as Pillage.  By changing to "when gain" instead of "when buy", it allows Cursers to be more powerful if people are able to trash the curses out of their decks.
Logged
he/him

emtzalex

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 787
  • Respect: +1381
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2021, 11:18:49 am »
+1

Looking at some of the submissions so far, it does seem a bit difficult to design an Edict that wouldn't be better served as a Project or Event (or at least couldn't easily be turned into one):
* Haggling, with its overpay, is effectively an opportunity cost like an Event (though the recommended change by grrgrrgrr doesn't fully capture the original design intent, but it could be modified a bit).
* Smelting could very easily be a Project (even a 0-cost one, but could also probably work at $2 or $3).
* Progress, being optional, could also be a Project.
The opportunity cost to turn an Edict into a 0-cost Project is one missed Buy, which is very minimal.

I disagree with this. First, I don't think a Project should ever cost $0 (or, to put it another way, I think a $0 Project is as much a departure from the official game as an Edict). It's no accident that there are no $0 Projects (as opposed to Events, which had $0 costs from their introduction in Adventures). Indeed, not only are there no $0 Projects, there are none costing less than $3, meaning you are always giving up not just a buy, but the buying of at least a Silver. This also means that on a $5/$2 open you cannot just get the Project with your otherwise (often) wasted $2 buy. The only way doing 

With these specific Edicts, Smelting definitely could not be $0 (or even $1 or $2). It would obviously not need to be $6, and $5 is also probably too high, but I'm not certain that it should cost less than Fair (in most games, there is a very strong correlation between playing Golds and wanting extra Buys, and the potential for additional buys to help you get a 3-pile end is not nothing). With Progress, the option to use it on one or both of your opening buys (by opening Silver - Tunnel, for example) is an important part of the Edict's design, which is lost if it is a Project.
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

mathdude

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 216
  • Respect: +228
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2021, 12:01:02 pm »
0

Ok, fair enough.  I guess it does lose some functionality for sure to change each of those to a Project.  I'm less familiar with Projects, as Renaissance is one of the few expansions my gaming group doesn't have yet (so I didn't realize none cost less than $3).
Logged
he/him

naitchman

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 242
  • Respect: +259
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2021, 12:33:36 pm »
+1

Looking at some of the submissions so far, it does seem a bit difficult to design an Edict that wouldn't be better served as a Project or Event (or at least couldn't easily be turned into one):
* Haggling, with its overpay, is effectively an opportunity cost like an Event (though the recommended change by grrgrrgrr doesn't fully capture the original design intent, but it could be modified a bit).
* Smelting could very easily be a Project (even a 0-cost one, but could also probably work at $2 or $3).
* Progress, being optional, could also be a Project.
The opportunity cost to turn an Edict into a 0-cost Project is one missed Buy, which is very minimal.

I disagree with this. First, I don't think a Project should ever cost $0 (or, to put it another way, I think a $0 Project is as much a departure from the official game as an Edict). It's no accident that there are no $0 Projects (as opposed to Events, which had $0 costs from their introduction in Adventures). Indeed, not only are there no $0 Projects, there are none costing less than $3, meaning you are always giving up not just a buy, but the buying of at least a Silver. This also means that on a $5/$2 open you cannot just get the Project with your otherwise (often) wasted $2 buy. The only way doing 

With these specific Edicts, Smelting definitely could not be $0 (or even $1 or $2). It would obviously not need to be $6, and $5 is also probably too high, but I'm not certain that it should cost less than Fair (in most games, there is a very strong correlation between playing Golds and wanting extra Buys, and the potential for additional buys to help you get a 3-pile end is not nothing). With Progress, the option to use it on one or both of your opening buys (by opening Silver - Tunnel, for example) is an important part of the Edict's design, which is lost if it is a Project.
Smelting could be an event costing $0 that says, once per turn: +1 buy, +1 buy per gold you have in play.

Though at that point I'd say it'd be simpler just to have it as edict.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9598
  • Respect: +10629
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2021, 04:35:30 pm »
+1



A landscape that attacks and might be occasionally useful. The king does after all love his Gardens.

I assume this is only supposed to trigger on your own turn? As worded each player would have to do it each turn I think; unless there's a general rule about how edicts work that I don't know.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Respect: +1307
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2021, 05:18:40 pm »
0



A landscape that attacks and might be occasionally useful. The king does after all love his Gardens.

I assume this is only supposed to trigger on your own turn? As worded each player would have to do it each turn I think; unless there's a general rule about how edicts work that I don't know.

Good point.  Should probably be worded as "At the start of each player's turn, they gain a Copper to their hand or discard a card"
Logged
They/them

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1953
  • Respect: +1999
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2021, 07:50:00 pm »
+1

Herding
Edict
When you gain a Silver, you may exchange it for a Horse, and vice-versa
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 08:15:19 pm by NoMoreFun »
Logged

naitchman

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 242
  • Respect: +259
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 13: Et Factum Est Ita
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2021, 10:41:44 pm »
+1

I'm impatient to find out the correct color, so I'm just gonna post this. Oh well, this week's competition will be colorful.
This is one I had made a little while ago (don't know if I ever posted it).
You can only buy the most expensive if you have the cheapest card in play.


I realize that this card as is has 2 problems
1) The luck card could be a card that can't normally be in play during your buy phase (night or victory cards)
2) The rare card and the luck card could be the same (e.g. engineer if there are no other debt cards)

To fix this, I've made some small revisions (they must be different and the luck card must be an action or treasure):
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All
 

Page created in 0.065 seconds with 22 queries.