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Author Topic: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways  (Read 5926 times)

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Aquila

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Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« on: May 27, 2021, 06:07:26 pm »
+5

This week will be looking at Acts. They're just like Events, but you spend Action on them during your Action phase to activate instead. They also follow the same inclusion rules; shuffle Acts in with the WELPs and draw out 2. You could choose to play with 3 or more Acts, but that won't be the standard rule.



With this basic premise, Acts can be diverse. These 5 examples are here to demonstrate the possibilities (and not crowd out your potential for ideas I hope!).

Descend gives players one optional Lab draw each turn, at the cost of a VP for balance. The card to draw is first discarded in case it's bad and the VP giveaway would sting.

Hire is an Attack. It triggers all concerned Reactions and Attack blocks; it is 'playing an Attack card' even though it doesn't become an Attack card in play.

Recall is once per turn so it can't infinitely loop playing Village for infinite draw.

Ambush goes onto Supply piles, moving around for an Action each time.

Declare is a Duration, so it follows very different rules. When you spend an Action on an Act Duration, move the Act card to the top row of your play area, move it down next turn and then return it to the middle at turn end. Whilst it stays in your play area, other players cannot use it. Declare mitigates any potential harshness from this by giving a global effect.
So because the card must move, Act Durations are innately once per turn. You do not need to say they are in their instructions, since it comes with the Duration type.


So some general design rules to think about. They are easier to activate than Ways are, so power wise are a bit weaker. (Descend is potentially a free Lab each turn, but needs the VP giveaway to balance it.)
On the other hand, they can use not needing an Action card in hand to their advantage, also being once per turn (Recall can't do crazy Adventures token tricks like an Action with the same effect could).
They can be used on the opening turns! (Hire avoids hitting Treasures for this reason.)

I won't ask for mock-ups, but here is a link to the generator with the colours all set if you so desire (just select secondary colour Duration if you make a Duration). I had to use GIMP/Photoshop to get the types on two lines.

Closing time: June 3rd 2021, 16:00 forum time. I will aim to have results up by then, but I'll say if I need more time.

Please enjoy, and feel free to ask questions/offer suggestions.

Edit: fixed example cards and explanation of the mechanic to incorporate multiple uses per turn.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 07:59:10 am by Aquila »
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mathdude

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2021, 06:37:01 pm »
+1

How are Acts set up for a game? Are they all available at once? (Are they recommended/limited to 1 or 2-3 like Ways or Events/Landmarks?) Are they in a pile where only the top one can be used (spent, gained, whatever)?
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spineflu

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2021, 06:49:45 pm »
+2


Quote
Obey Act
Once per turn: Gain a Gold. When drawing your next hand during Clean-up, draw two fewer cards than you otherwise would.

revised to match the new multi-use-per-turn Acts
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 01:32:12 pm by spineflu »
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naitchman

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2021, 08:49:01 pm »
+2

No longer my submission (see post below)


Cards that normally aren't played such as victory cards and curses have no effect when played. It basically has 2 uses.

1) You can use it to play cards during unconventional times; e.g. play a quarry during your action phase so your workshop become stronger, play victory cards and treasures to draw more with your library, play your estates/curses so you can trash them with bonfire.

2) However, it won't have some cool use like this most of the time. Usually it will benefit a draw engine that has too many actions ($2 consolation prize).

Edit: I made some slight changes to the card to make it less wordy. Regardless, I think this card just isn't interesting enough to really change the game. I've submitted a new card.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 11:30:50 pm by naitchman »
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2021, 02:57:50 am »
0

How are Acts set up for a game? Are they all available at once? (Are they recommended/limited to 1 or 2-3 like Ways or Events/Landmarks?) Are they in a pile where only the top one can be used (spent, gained, whatever)?
They follow the same rules as Events, Landmarks and Projects. Shuffle them in and select any two for most games. You could choose 3+ Acts if you wanted to, but not recommended.
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Timinou

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2021, 03:15:47 am »
+6

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mxdata

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2021, 03:16:39 am »
0

How are Acts set up for a game? Are they all available at once? (Are they recommended/limited to 1 or 2-3 like Ways or Events/Landmarks?) Are they in a pile where only the top one can be used (spent, gained, whatever)?
They follow the same rules as Events, Landmarks and Projects. Shuffle them in and select any two for most games. You could choose 3+ Acts if you wanted to, but not recommended.

If you have 2 (or more) Acts in a game, can you play both Acts in the same turn?
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naitchman

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2021, 08:52:29 am »
0

I have two comments on the mechanic.

1) Why limit it to once per turn? Can't you do it like events, where the default is as many times as you'd like unless specified (e.g. mission, borrow etc.). That would allow for more possibilities.

2) If you do have a once per turn action, it doesn't need to be nerfed or weaker than ways. Everyone can play it equally and it won't make the action cards obsolete since it can only be used once per turn. This is similar to Herilooms that make the game easier or harder for everyone.
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spineflu

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2021, 09:53:45 am »
+1


Quote
Obey Act
Gain a Gold. When drawing your hand at end of clean-up, only draw 3 cards.
Not that Gold gaining is ever particularly crazy but a wording like "draw two cards less" would make this weaker with Outpost.
yeah I dont think this needs to be weaker

Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2021, 03:09:46 pm »
0

...
...

If you have 2 (or more) Acts in a game, can you play both Acts in the same turn?
Yes.

I have two comments on the mechanic.

1) Why limit it to once per turn? Can't you do it like events, where the default is as many times as you'd like unless specified (e.g. mission, borrow etc.). That would allow for more possibilities.

2) If you do have a once per turn action, it doesn't need to be nerfed or weaker than ways. Everyone can play it equally and it won't make the action cards obsolete since it can only be used once per turn. This is similar to Herilooms that make the game easier or harder for everyone.
1) Hmm... Because of elegance with moving the Act card for tracking purposes? That's all, I think. Why limit it indeed if we fans are ok with tracking the spent Actions? Of my examples, Hire, Ambush and even Descend could be multiple times couldn't they? Very well, I will change the rules accordingly!

2) game balance would still be a concern, especially in the opening. If there was a once per turn + $2 Act corresponding to Way of the Sheep, that would make things absurdly fast and limit the viable strategies.
Adding a limit to prevent it from working in the opening - like with your Bribe - works fine though.

Thanks for your input! From now on, Acts can be infinitely used. If you were designing a once per turn one, add 'once per turn:' to it.
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scolapasta

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2021, 03:29:58 pm »
0

...
...

If you have 2 (or more) Acts in a game, can you play both Acts in the same turn?
Yes.

I have two comments on the mechanic.

1) Why limit it to once per turn? Can't you do it like events, where the default is as many times as you'd like unless specified (e.g. mission, borrow etc.). That would allow for more possibilities.

2) If you do have a once per turn action, it doesn't need to be nerfed or weaker than ways. Everyone can play it equally and it won't make the action cards obsolete since it can only be used once per turn. This is similar to Herilooms that make the game easier or harder for everyone.
1) Hmm... Because of elegance with moving the Act card for tracking purposes? That's all, I think. Why limit it indeed if we fans are ok with tracking the spent Actions? Of my examples, Hire, Ambush and even Descend could be multiple times couldn't they? Very well, I will change the rules accordingly!

2) game balance would still be a concern, especially in the opening. If there was a once per turn + $2 Act corresponding to Way of the Sheep, that would make things absurdly fast and limit the viable strategies.
Adding a limit to prevent it from working in the opening - like with your Bribe - works fine though.

Thanks for your input! From now on, Acts can be infinitely used. If you were designing a once per turn one, add 'once per turn:' to it.

Doesn't this break Descend (and any other +1 Action Acts)?

(and for the sake of Champion, I assume playing an Act would not count as "play[ing] an Action"?
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2021, 03:59:17 pm »
0

...
...

If you have 2 (or more) Acts in a game, can you play both Acts in the same turn?
Yes.

I have two comments on the mechanic.

1) Why limit it to once per turn? Can't you do it like events, where the default is as many times as you'd like unless specified (e.g. mission, borrow etc.). That would allow for more possibilities.

2) If you do have a once per turn action, it doesn't need to be nerfed or weaker than ways. Everyone can play it equally and it won't make the action cards obsolete since it can only be used once per turn. This is similar to Herilooms that make the game easier or harder for everyone.
1) Hmm... Because of elegance with moving the Act card for tracking purposes? That's all, I think. Why limit it indeed if we fans are ok with tracking the spent Actions? Of my examples, Hire, Ambush and even Descend could be multiple times couldn't they? Very well, I will change the rules accordingly!

2) game balance would still be a concern, especially in the opening. If there was a once per turn + $2 Act corresponding to Way of the Sheep, that would make things absurdly fast and limit the viable strategies.
Adding a limit to prevent it from working in the opening - like with your Bribe - works fine though.

Thanks for your input! From now on, Acts can be infinitely used. If you were designing a once per turn one, add 'once per turn:' to it.

Doesn't this break Descend (and any other +1 Action Acts)?

(and for the sake of Champion, I assume playing an Act would not count as "play[ing] an Action"?
Descend might well need once per turn on it, as might any +Action Acts you design. And yes, an Act is not an Action card.

For Declare and other Act Durations, whilst I think of it, they will have to always be once per turn and be moved into the play area. So you don't need to put 'once per turn' on them, it's assumed.
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2021, 06:33:42 pm »
+4

My Submission (updated):


Quote from: Export
EXPORT
Once per turn, you may play an Action or
Treasure card from your hand and Exile a
copy of it from the Supply.

Export has an Exile-from-the-Supply effect in the style of Camel Train and Way of the Camel. When you Exile with those cards, you can set yourself up for copies of strong cards (even ones you cannot yet afford), but you don't actually get them until you can gain one. This is weaker in that you must gain a card both before and after you use this in order to end up with that copy of it; however, this is balanced out by how much easier Acts are to use (and balances against Way of the Camel in not being limited to working on a single card).

It is a little strange that you will often be spending an Action to play an Action card. That is...how you play Action cards. Of course, this works with Treasures as well, meaning it doubles as a vastly worse version of Black Market (in it doesn't give you the +$2, access to cards not in the game, a virtual +Buy, or the ability to play more than one Treasure).

Obvious synergies are Action cards you want to pile like Conspirator. Just make sure you can gain one before the pile runs out, or its buddies will be stuck in Exile (usually). It also plays very well with a number of Landmarks, e.g. Obelisk, Orchard, Palace, and Triumphal Arch. Fountain can be an interesting case. In a Kingdom without much trashing, it would be no problem for each player to Exile 3 Coppers, and would end up being a wash. But in a Kingdom with Chapel or Moneylender, players have to consider whether they want to balance trashing with trying to Exile 10 Coppers.

This also mitigates the too-strong-at-the-open issue by only being useful (Kingdoms with the aforementioned Landmarks excluded) when you have good cards in your hand.

I designed this before the rule was changed from once per turn. I will have to think about whether I want to make it once per turn. Since it is effectively +1 Action, I think I probably will. Update: I did.

Old version:
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 07:15:22 pm by emtzalex »
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2021, 07:08:30 pm »
0

I designed this before the rule was changed from once per turn. I will have to think about whether I want to make it once per turn. Since it is effectively +1 Action, I think I probably will.

That didn't take long. The rate at which the number of Laboratories or Lost Cities (or other non-terminal Actions, but that one is probably the scariest--you don't even get the on-gain penalty for the LCs you Exile) would multiply in your deck means this needs to be limited to once per turn.
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

Xen3k

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2021, 07:48:36 pm »
+3



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Changed artwork.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 08:04:15 am by Xen3k »
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mxdata

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2021, 10:50:38 pm »
+2


Quote
Exchange
Act
Once per turn: Set aside a card you have in play. At the start of Clean-up, exchange that card for a card costing up to the same cost.
EDIT: New version:
Quote
Exchange
Act
Once per turn: At the start of Clean-up, exchange a card that you would discard from play this turn for a card costing up to the same cost.
(Keep this until Clean-up)
Allows you to, once per turn, exchange an in-play card for one costing not more than itself.  The card is set aside and exchanged at the end of your turn so that you can't draw the new card on the same turn.  So, this would work really well with cards like Moneylender that become less useful later in the game.  You can't gain anything more expensive, so it's weaker than Butterfly in that regard, but on the other hand, it's stronger than Butterfly in that you can get one last play out of a card, and you're not restricted to exactly $1 higher, and you can wait until the end of your Action phase to choose which card to exchange, as long as you still have at least one Action left

Note that you do have to exchange it for another card, you can't simply use this to return a card to the Supply without getting anything back.  So, most of the time it's pretty useless for getting rid of Coppers, even when it's possible, e.g., with Storyteller or Black Market or tricks with Villa.  But, with enough cost reduction, you could exchange a Copper for another card with a current cost of $0.  And since it only works on cards  that are in play, it cannot get rid of Curses or Estates at all (barring Inheritance - but if you've Inherited your Estates as something else, you're not likely to want to exchange them)

It would potentially make for a nice combo with Rats.  Buy one Rats, then whenever you play Rats, you just exchange the one you played for something else costing up to $4

Also, one small note: Since the card is being set aside, it no longer counts as being in play for things like Changeling or Pedller

I'm wondering, though, whether I should make it "a card you would discard this turn", so that you can't use it on Duration cards played the same turn

EDIT: New version now works at Clean-up, instead of when you play the Act, and can only work on cards that you would discard the same turn, thus, it cannot be used on Duration cards that stay out, making for better tracking.  I realized it would be especially broken with Hireling, since you could technically (since there's no "differently-named" clause) exchange a Hireling for another Hireling in the old version.  Since it now works at Clean-Up, it works a lot better with Treasures, and could even be used on Night cards
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 01:16:31 am by mxdata »
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mxdata

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2021, 11:19:46 pm »
+1



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

An interesting idea.  I think it's probably fairly balanced here.  1 debt would be far too cheap, and 3 debt would be too much, I think.  Interesting that there's five choices, but you can only take, at most, 3 of them.  Why cap it at 6 debt?  Most of the time, you probably wouldn't want to get much more than 4 or 6 debt, but why not leave the option?
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2021, 11:34:51 pm »
+1



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

An interesting idea.  I think it's probably fairly balanced here.  1 debt would be far too cheap, and 3 debt would be too much, I think.  Interesting that there's five choices, but you can only take, at most, 3 of them.  Why cap it at 6 debt?  Most of the time, you probably wouldn't want to get much more than 4 or 6 debt, but why not leave the option?

Thanks. The main reason for the cap is to streamline play. Analysis paralysis can be a problem at my game group, and limiting the number of choices to 3 should, hopefully, simplify the cost to benefit calculations. Additionally it stops it from being a noob trap and reduces the chance of some unforeseen abuse. Likely is unnecessary, but I do like the "feel" of up to three options.
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Mahowrath

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2021, 07:48:41 am »
+2



Quote
Arcane Conscription - Act
Spend any number of your remaining actions and buys, for +1 Card per action or buy spent

Edit: image
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 06:06:02 pm by Mahowrath »
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mxdata

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2021, 12:41:38 pm »
0

Shouldn't Hire have a "or reveal that they can't" on it for accountability purposes?
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naitchman

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2021, 11:13:14 pm »
+2



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

Lol! We literally used the exact same image! (and cropped it similarly)
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2021, 12:50:42 am »
0



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

Lol! We literally used the exact same image! (and cropped it similarly)

lol! I just noticed that. I am gonna have to change the art at some point.
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2021, 08:03:11 am »
+1

Shouldn't Hire have a "or reveal that they can't" on it for accountability purposes?
Yes, fixed. Thanks. I've now changed the first post and the example cards to incorporate the multiple-use possibility.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2021, 12:44:51 pm »
+2

Not quite sold on the concept of dual-type acts. There is a reason why Raid and Summon aren't dual type events. Anyway, my submission:

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naitchman

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2021, 02:18:42 pm »
+3

Here's my submission:

As a last resort, you can scrap your hand for another card. You can do it multiple times a turn if you'd like. Good if you've got a handful of victory cards and curses, or if you'd like to risk your hand for a low chance at something better.

Here are some ideas I had but scrapped:
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