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Author Topic: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways  (Read 7289 times)

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Aquila

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Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« on: May 27, 2021, 06:07:26 pm »
+5

This week will be looking at Acts. They're just like Events, but you spend Action on them during your Action phase to activate instead. They also follow the same inclusion rules; shuffle Acts in with the WELPs and draw out 2. You could choose to play with 3 or more Acts, but that won't be the standard rule.



With this basic premise, Acts can be diverse. These 5 examples are here to demonstrate the possibilities (and not crowd out your potential for ideas I hope!).

Descend gives players one optional Lab draw each turn, at the cost of a VP for balance. The card to draw is first discarded in case it's bad and the VP giveaway would sting.

Hire is an Attack. It triggers all concerned Reactions and Attack blocks; it is 'playing an Attack card' even though it doesn't become an Attack card in play.

Recall is once per turn so it can't infinitely loop playing Village for infinite draw.

Ambush goes onto Supply piles, moving around for an Action each time.

Declare is a Duration, so it follows very different rules. When you spend an Action on an Act Duration, move the Act card to the top row of your play area, move it down next turn and then return it to the middle at turn end. Whilst it stays in your play area, other players cannot use it. Declare mitigates any potential harshness from this by giving a global effect.
So because the card must move, Act Durations are innately once per turn. You do not need to say they are in their instructions, since it comes with the Duration type.


So some general design rules to think about. They are easier to activate than Ways are, so power wise are a bit weaker. (Descend is potentially a free Lab each turn, but needs the VP giveaway to balance it.)
On the other hand, they can use not needing an Action card in hand to their advantage, also being once per turn (Recall can't do crazy Adventures token tricks like an Action with the same effect could).
They can be used on the opening turns! (Hire avoids hitting Treasures for this reason.)

I won't ask for mock-ups, but here is a link to the generator with the colours all set if you so desire (just select secondary colour Duration if you make a Duration). I had to use GIMP/Photoshop to get the types on two lines.

Closing time: June 3rd 2021, 16:00 forum time. I will aim to have results up by then, but I'll say if I need more time.

Please enjoy, and feel free to ask questions/offer suggestions.

Edit: fixed example cards and explanation of the mechanic to incorporate multiple uses per turn.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 07:59:10 am by Aquila »
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mathdude

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2021, 06:37:01 pm »
+1

How are Acts set up for a game? Are they all available at once? (Are they recommended/limited to 1 or 2-3 like Ways or Events/Landmarks?) Are they in a pile where only the top one can be used (spent, gained, whatever)?
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spineflu

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2021, 06:49:45 pm »
+2


Quote
Obey • Act
Once per turn: Gain a Gold. When drawing your next hand during Clean-up, draw two fewer cards than you otherwise would.

revised to match the new multi-use-per-turn Acts
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 01:32:12 pm by spineflu »
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naitchman

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2021, 08:49:01 pm »
+2

No longer my submission (see post below)


Cards that normally aren't played such as victory cards and curses have no effect when played. It basically has 2 uses.

1) You can use it to play cards during unconventional times; e.g. play a quarry during your action phase so your workshop become stronger, play victory cards and treasures to draw more with your library, play your estates/curses so you can trash them with bonfire.

2) However, it won't have some cool use like this most of the time. Usually it will benefit a draw engine that has too many actions ($2 consolation prize).

Edit: I made some slight changes to the card to make it less wordy. Regardless, I think this card just isn't interesting enough to really change the game. I've submitted a new card.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 11:30:50 pm by naitchman »
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2021, 02:57:50 am »
0

How are Acts set up for a game? Are they all available at once? (Are they recommended/limited to 1 or 2-3 like Ways or Events/Landmarks?) Are they in a pile where only the top one can be used (spent, gained, whatever)?
They follow the same rules as Events, Landmarks and Projects. Shuffle them in and select any two for most games. You could choose 3+ Acts if you wanted to, but not recommended.
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Timinou

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2021, 03:15:47 am »
+6

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mxdata

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2021, 03:16:39 am »
0

How are Acts set up for a game? Are they all available at once? (Are they recommended/limited to 1 or 2-3 like Ways or Events/Landmarks?) Are they in a pile where only the top one can be used (spent, gained, whatever)?
They follow the same rules as Events, Landmarks and Projects. Shuffle them in and select any two for most games. You could choose 3+ Acts if you wanted to, but not recommended.

If you have 2 (or more) Acts in a game, can you play both Acts in the same turn?
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naitchman

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2021, 08:52:29 am »
0

I have two comments on the mechanic.

1) Why limit it to once per turn? Can't you do it like events, where the default is as many times as you'd like unless specified (e.g. mission, borrow etc.). That would allow for more possibilities.

2) If you do have a once per turn action, it doesn't need to be nerfed or weaker than ways. Everyone can play it equally and it won't make the action cards obsolete since it can only be used once per turn. This is similar to Herilooms that make the game easier or harder for everyone.
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spineflu

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2021, 09:53:45 am »
+1


Quote
Obey • Act
Gain a Gold. When drawing your hand at end of clean-up, only draw 3 cards.
Not that Gold gaining is ever particularly crazy but a wording like "draw two cards less" would make this weaker with Outpost.
yeah I dont think this needs to be weaker
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2021, 03:09:46 pm »
0

...
...

If you have 2 (or more) Acts in a game, can you play both Acts in the same turn?
Yes.

I have two comments on the mechanic.

1) Why limit it to once per turn? Can't you do it like events, where the default is as many times as you'd like unless specified (e.g. mission, borrow etc.). That would allow for more possibilities.

2) If you do have a once per turn action, it doesn't need to be nerfed or weaker than ways. Everyone can play it equally and it won't make the action cards obsolete since it can only be used once per turn. This is similar to Herilooms that make the game easier or harder for everyone.
1) Hmm... Because of elegance with moving the Act card for tracking purposes? That's all, I think. Why limit it indeed if we fans are ok with tracking the spent Actions? Of my examples, Hire, Ambush and even Descend could be multiple times couldn't they? Very well, I will change the rules accordingly!

2) game balance would still be a concern, especially in the opening. If there was a once per turn + $2 Act corresponding to Way of the Sheep, that would make things absurdly fast and limit the viable strategies.
Adding a limit to prevent it from working in the opening - like with your Bribe - works fine though.

Thanks for your input! From now on, Acts can be infinitely used. If you were designing a once per turn one, add 'once per turn:' to it.
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scolapasta

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2021, 03:29:58 pm »
0

...
...

If you have 2 (or more) Acts in a game, can you play both Acts in the same turn?
Yes.

I have two comments on the mechanic.

1) Why limit it to once per turn? Can't you do it like events, where the default is as many times as you'd like unless specified (e.g. mission, borrow etc.). That would allow for more possibilities.

2) If you do have a once per turn action, it doesn't need to be nerfed or weaker than ways. Everyone can play it equally and it won't make the action cards obsolete since it can only be used once per turn. This is similar to Herilooms that make the game easier or harder for everyone.
1) Hmm... Because of elegance with moving the Act card for tracking purposes? That's all, I think. Why limit it indeed if we fans are ok with tracking the spent Actions? Of my examples, Hire, Ambush and even Descend could be multiple times couldn't they? Very well, I will change the rules accordingly!

2) game balance would still be a concern, especially in the opening. If there was a once per turn + $2 Act corresponding to Way of the Sheep, that would make things absurdly fast and limit the viable strategies.
Adding a limit to prevent it from working in the opening - like with your Bribe - works fine though.

Thanks for your input! From now on, Acts can be infinitely used. If you were designing a once per turn one, add 'once per turn:' to it.

Doesn't this break Descend (and any other +1 Action Acts)?

(and for the sake of Champion, I assume playing an Act would not count as "play[ing] an Action"?
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2021, 03:59:17 pm »
0

...
...

If you have 2 (or more) Acts in a game, can you play both Acts in the same turn?
Yes.

I have two comments on the mechanic.

1) Why limit it to once per turn? Can't you do it like events, where the default is as many times as you'd like unless specified (e.g. mission, borrow etc.). That would allow for more possibilities.

2) If you do have a once per turn action, it doesn't need to be nerfed or weaker than ways. Everyone can play it equally and it won't make the action cards obsolete since it can only be used once per turn. This is similar to Herilooms that make the game easier or harder for everyone.
1) Hmm... Because of elegance with moving the Act card for tracking purposes? That's all, I think. Why limit it indeed if we fans are ok with tracking the spent Actions? Of my examples, Hire, Ambush and even Descend could be multiple times couldn't they? Very well, I will change the rules accordingly!

2) game balance would still be a concern, especially in the opening. If there was a once per turn + $2 Act corresponding to Way of the Sheep, that would make things absurdly fast and limit the viable strategies.
Adding a limit to prevent it from working in the opening - like with your Bribe - works fine though.

Thanks for your input! From now on, Acts can be infinitely used. If you were designing a once per turn one, add 'once per turn:' to it.

Doesn't this break Descend (and any other +1 Action Acts)?

(and for the sake of Champion, I assume playing an Act would not count as "play[ing] an Action"?
Descend might well need once per turn on it, as might any +Action Acts you design. And yes, an Act is not an Action card.

For Declare and other Act Durations, whilst I think of it, they will have to always be once per turn and be moved into the play area. So you don't need to put 'once per turn' on them, it's assumed.
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2021, 06:33:42 pm »
+4

My Submission (updated):


Quote from: Export
EXPORT
Once per turn, you may play an Action or
Treasure card from your hand and Exile a
copy of it from the Supply.

Export has an Exile-from-the-Supply effect in the style of Camel Train and Way of the Camel. When you Exile with those cards, you can set yourself up for copies of strong cards (even ones you cannot yet afford), but you don't actually get them until you can gain one. This is weaker in that you must gain a card both before and after you use this in order to end up with that copy of it; however, this is balanced out by how much easier Acts are to use (and balances against Way of the Camel in not being limited to working on a single card).

It is a little strange that you will often be spending an Action to play an Action card. That is...how you play Action cards. Of course, this works with Treasures as well, meaning it doubles as a vastly worse version of Black Market (in it doesn't give you the +$2, access to cards not in the game, a virtual +Buy, or the ability to play more than one Treasure).

Obvious synergies are Action cards you want to pile like Conspirator. Just make sure you can gain one before the pile runs out, or its buddies will be stuck in Exile (usually). It also plays very well with a number of Landmarks, e.g. Obelisk, Orchard, Palace, and Triumphal Arch. Fountain can be an interesting case. In a Kingdom without much trashing, it would be no problem for each player to Exile 3 Coppers, and would end up being a wash. But in a Kingdom with Chapel or Moneylender, players have to consider whether they want to balance trashing with trying to Exile 10 Coppers.

This also mitigates the too-strong-at-the-open issue by only being useful (Kingdoms with the aforementioned Landmarks excluded) when you have good cards in your hand.

I designed this before the rule was changed from once per turn. I will have to think about whether I want to make it once per turn. Since it is effectively +1 Action, I think I probably will. Update: I did.

Old version:
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 07:15:22 pm by emtzalex »
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2021, 07:08:30 pm »
0

I designed this before the rule was changed from once per turn. I will have to think about whether I want to make it once per turn. Since it is effectively +1 Action, I think I probably will.

That didn't take long. The rate at which the number of Laboratories or Lost Cities (or other non-terminal Actions, but that one is probably the scariest--you don't even get the on-gain penalty for the LCs you Exile) would multiply in your deck means this needs to be limited to once per turn.
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

Xen3k

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2021, 07:48:36 pm »
+3



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Changed artwork.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 08:04:15 am by Xen3k »
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mxdata

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2021, 10:50:38 pm »
+2


Quote
Exchange
Act
Once per turn: Set aside a card you have in play. At the start of Clean-up, exchange that card for a card costing up to the same cost.
EDIT: New version:
Quote
Exchange
Act
Once per turn: At the start of Clean-up, exchange a card that you would discard from play this turn for a card costing up to the same cost.
(Keep this until Clean-up)
Allows you to, once per turn, exchange an in-play card for one costing not more than itself.  The card is set aside and exchanged at the end of your turn so that you can't draw the new card on the same turn.  So, this would work really well with cards like Moneylender that become less useful later in the game.  You can't gain anything more expensive, so it's weaker than Butterfly in that regard, but on the other hand, it's stronger than Butterfly in that you can get one last play out of a card, and you're not restricted to exactly $1 higher, and you can wait until the end of your Action phase to choose which card to exchange, as long as you still have at least one Action left

Note that you do have to exchange it for another card, you can't simply use this to return a card to the Supply without getting anything back.  So, most of the time it's pretty useless for getting rid of Coppers, even when it's possible, e.g., with Storyteller or Black Market or tricks with Villa.  But, with enough cost reduction, you could exchange a Copper for another card with a current cost of $0.  And since it only works on cards  that are in play, it cannot get rid of Curses or Estates at all (barring Inheritance - but if you've Inherited your Estates as something else, you're not likely to want to exchange them)

It would potentially make for a nice combo with Rats.  Buy one Rats, then whenever you play Rats, you just exchange the one you played for something else costing up to $4

Also, one small note: Since the card is being set aside, it no longer counts as being in play for things like Changeling or Pedller

I'm wondering, though, whether I should make it "a card you would discard this turn", so that you can't use it on Duration cards played the same turn

EDIT: New version now works at Clean-up, instead of when you play the Act, and can only work on cards that you would discard the same turn, thus, it cannot be used on Duration cards that stay out, making for better tracking.  I realized it would be especially broken with Hireling, since you could technically (since there's no "differently-named" clause) exchange a Hireling for another Hireling in the old version.  Since it now works at Clean-Up, it works a lot better with Treasures, and could even be used on Night cards
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 01:16:31 am by mxdata »
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mxdata

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2021, 11:19:46 pm »
+1



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

An interesting idea.  I think it's probably fairly balanced here.  1 debt would be far too cheap, and 3 debt would be too much, I think.  Interesting that there's five choices, but you can only take, at most, 3 of them.  Why cap it at 6 debt?  Most of the time, you probably wouldn't want to get much more than 4 or 6 debt, but why not leave the option?
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2021, 11:34:51 pm »
+1



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

An interesting idea.  I think it's probably fairly balanced here.  1 debt would be far too cheap, and 3 debt would be too much, I think.  Interesting that there's five choices, but you can only take, at most, 3 of them.  Why cap it at 6 debt?  Most of the time, you probably wouldn't want to get much more than 4 or 6 debt, but why not leave the option?

Thanks. The main reason for the cap is to streamline play. Analysis paralysis can be a problem at my game group, and limiting the number of choices to 3 should, hopefully, simplify the cost to benefit calculations. Additionally it stops it from being a noob trap and reduces the chance of some unforeseen abuse. Likely is unnecessary, but I do like the "feel" of up to three options.
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Mahowrath

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2021, 07:48:41 am »
+2



Quote
Arcane Conscription - Act
Spend any number of your remaining actions and buys, for +1 Card per action or buy spent

Edit: image
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 06:06:02 pm by Mahowrath »
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mxdata

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2021, 12:41:38 pm »
0

Shouldn't Hire have a "or reveal that they can't" on it for accountability purposes?
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naitchman

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2021, 11:13:14 pm »
+2



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

Lol! We literally used the exact same image! (and cropped it similarly)
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2021, 12:50:42 am »
0



Quote
Payoff - Act
Once per turn, take up to 6 Debt. Choose a different thing per 2 Debt taken: +1 Card; +2 Actions; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; trash a card from your hand.

I wanted to try a once a turn multi-choice Act that uses Debt to balance the benefits. Intended to mainly act as a way to gamble to save a turn or go into debt to invest in the future. Not sure if the cost is too steep. or not. Had it at a different choice for each 1 Debt taken, but didn't think it had a big enough of an impact on a turn. Feedback is appreciated.

Lol! We literally used the exact same image! (and cropped it similarly)

lol! I just noticed that. I am gonna have to change the art at some point.
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2021, 08:03:11 am »
+1

Shouldn't Hire have a "or reveal that they can't" on it for accountability purposes?
Yes, fixed. Thanks. I've now changed the first post and the example cards to incorporate the multiple-use possibility.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2021, 12:44:51 pm »
+2

Not quite sold on the concept of dual-type acts. There is a reason why Raid and Summon aren't dual type events. Anyway, my submission:

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naitchman

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2021, 02:18:42 pm »
+3

Here's my submission:

As a last resort, you can scrap your hand for another card. You can do it multiple times a turn if you'd like. Good if you've got a handful of victory cards and curses, or if you'd like to risk your hand for a low chance at something better.

Here are some ideas I had but scrapped:
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2021, 09:28:32 pm »
+2

Here's what I landed on for my submission:


Quote
Vacation
Act
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).
Then if it is face up, at the end of your Clean-up phase draw 2 extra cards and take [2 Debt].

Acts pose some interesting design constraints as-is, so naturally I had some trouble balancing an Act which required a total investment of 2 Actions to see any benefit. My original mock-up gave only 1 card. However, the 2 Action cost made this feel rather underwhelming so I upped the pay-off to 2 cards. This felt suitably rewarding, but I realized that both versions (particularly the latter) were too dominant in the early turns. A 6 or 7 card hand on Turn 3 with, effectively, no downsides would be too good to pass up. I ultimately settled on adding Debt (Vacations are scarcely free after all) as a counterweight.

My main concern is in tracking an effect like this- where the benefit of flipping the Journey token face up is delayed- if it is triggered multiple times in a turn. I can foresee some difficulties there, but it seems manageable.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2021, 10:43:08 am »
+2

Vacation is an interesting idea, but maybe a bit too weak?  The benefit over Way of the Squirrel is that you don't need to have an Action card in hand, but on the flip side you need to spend an extra Action and take 2 debt.

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2021, 03:33:03 pm »
+5



So you start your hand with 2 terminal Action cards.  Is it worth giving everyone else an extra card to be able to play them both?  Often.  But they draw at the end of your turn, so you can't let them draw up to 6, then hit them with a Militia after (it's the other way around - they discard down to 3, then draw an extra card).

How about if you start your hand with a Smithy and you're fairly certain you'll draw a dead action or more.  Would you risk giving others a card in this case?
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2021, 04:16:11 pm »
+4

24 hours left
So far I have:
Obey by spineflu
Last Resort by naitchman
Courier by Timinou
Exports by emtzalex
Payoff by Xen3k
Exchange by mxdata
Arcane Conscription by Mahowrath
Recruit by grrgrrgrr
Vacation by bootymancer
Lost Village by mathdude
Game of Thrones by fika monster
Refine by The Alchemist
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 04:16:38 pm by Aquila »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2021, 08:13:36 am »
+3

Late entry

fika monsters motto: when in doubt, put Throne Room on it!



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Timinou

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2021, 11:08:02 am »
+4

Late entry

fika monsters motto: when in doubt, put Throne Room on it!



This is great for the opening.  You get to thin and you're guaranteed to be able to hit $5 before the first shuffle.  I would think that playing this on Coppers early in the game would be the optimal thing to do, rather than on your Actions (unless it's something like Doctor).

Looks fun, but it's probably quite game-warping.

Rules question - if you play this on a Horse, you play it twice and the Horse gets returned to its pile; but do you then still Exile it?  Procession doesn't trash Horses, so I'm assuming the same would happen here, but I wasn't sure. 
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2021, 11:42:13 am »
+1

Late entry

fika monsters motto: when in doubt, put Throne Room on it!



This is great for the opening.  You get to thin and you're guaranteed to be able to hit $5 before the first shuffle.  I would think that playing this on Coppers early in the game would be the optimal thing to do, rather than on your Actions (unless it's something like Doctor).

Looks fun, but it's probably quite game-warping.

Rules question - if you play this on a Horse, you play it twice and the Horse gets returned to its pile; but do you then still Exile it?  Procession doesn't trash Horses, so I'm assuming the same would happen here, but I wasn't sure.

I agree with Timinou. It looks fun, but also a bit too strong. I haven't read the instructions for Acts carefully, but my understanding is that they are supposed to be weak, something like the power level of Ways. How about removing the Treasure part? In addition, a clause like "...if it is still in play, Exile it." would help simplifying it rule-wise and would also prevent any abuse of cards that leave play.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2021, 12:14:53 pm »
+1

Rules question - if you play this on a Horse, you play it twice and the Horse gets returned to its pile; but do you then still Exile it?  Procession doesn't trash Horses, so I'm assuming the same would happen here, but I wasn't sure.

Under the Stop-moving rule, GoT would expect the card it played to be in play, and would be unable to Exile it if it wasn't. In the case of Horse, the Exiling would fail to happen because Horse returned itself to its pile in the course of resolving itself; (incidentally, this also prevents Horse from returning itself to the pile on its second play, but that doesn't matter since it is where it would go). So, for the same reason that Procession does not trash a Horse, GoT would not Exile it.

In the case of Horse, it's beneficial effect (+2 Cards/+1 Action) is not contingent on its movement, so you get that part twice. In contrast, Pillage's effect is conditional on it being trashed, so if you Throne Room it, you only get the effect once. Another example of this is Wish, which if you Thone Room gives you +2 Actions but only gains one card to your hand, since on the second play it cannot return itself to its pile (and that gaining, but not the +1 Action, is conditional on returning Wish to its pile).
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 12:17:26 pm by emtzalex »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2021, 12:24:26 pm »
0

Late entry

fika monsters motto: when in doubt, put Throne Room on it!



This is great for the opening.  You get to thin and you're guaranteed to be able to hit $5 before the first shuffle.  I would think that playing this on Coppers early in the game would be the optimal thing to do, rather than on your Actions (unless it's something like Doctor).

Looks fun, but it's probably quite game-warping.

Rules question - if you play this on a Horse, you play it twice and the Horse gets returned to its pile; but do you then still Exile it?  Procession doesn't trash Horses, so I'm assuming the same would happen here, but I wasn't sure.

If it specified Kingdom cards or non-Copper cards it would be less game breaking, but would lose the simple elegance it has right now.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2021, 02:32:15 pm »
+3



Since the benefit of Acts over Action cards seems to be their reliability, being available to purchase at any time, I thought of what ideas I had for cards that would normally just be too swingy if they were normal Actions. Here is one of those. The availability of Refine means you can use it exactly when it would be most beneficial to you, without having to worry about having a card in hand. Considering limiting it to "If you have played no cards this turn", but it made the text far more crowded than it already is. If it's too monolithic then consider the limitation there (I'm free to modify the Acts rules, right?).
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2021, 03:28:34 pm »
0

Late entry

fika monsters motto: when in doubt, put Throne Room on it!



This is great for the opening.  You get to thin and you're guaranteed to be able to hit $5 before the first shuffle.  I would think that playing this on Coppers early in the game would be the optimal thing to do, rather than on your Actions (unless it's something like Doctor).

Looks fun, but it's probably quite game-warping.

Rules question - if you play this on a Horse, you play it twice and the Horse gets returned to its pile; but do you then still Exile it?  Procession doesn't trash Horses, so I'm assuming the same would happen here, but I wasn't sure.
My idea is that its like chapel: Its really strong and drastically changes the games it is in.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2021, 03:42:45 pm »
0

Late entry

fika monsters motto: when in doubt, put Throne Room on it!



This is great for the opening.  You get to thin and you're guaranteed to be able to hit $5 before the first shuffle.  I would think that playing this on Coppers early in the game would be the optimal thing to do, rather than on your Actions (unless it's something like Doctor).

Looks fun, but it's probably quite game-warping.

Rules question - if you play this on a Horse, you play it twice and the Horse gets returned to its pile; but do you then still Exile it?  Procession doesn't trash Horses, so I'm assuming the same would happen here, but I wasn't sure.
My idea is that its like chapel: Its really strong and drastically changes the games it is in.

Chapel isn't nearly as automatic though. Enhance doesn't work on Victory Cards because othewise, this would be super automatic in a 4/3 opening. To be fair, this also works in a 5/2 opening, so it isn't as unfair.

(I'd honestly make it only work with Actions, as the interactions with Silver and Gold aren't very likeable either)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 03:45:13 pm by grrgrrgrr »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2021, 03:43:57 pm »
0



Since the benefit of Acts over Action cards seems to be their reliability, being available to purchase at any time, I thought of what ideas I had for cards that would normally just be too swingy if they were normal Actions. Here is one of those. The availability of Refine means you can use it exactly when it would be most beneficial to you, without having to worry about having a card in hand. Considering limiting it to "If you have played no cards this turn", but it made the text far more crowded than it already is. If it's too monolithic then consider the limitation there (I'm free to modify the Acts rules, right?).

This is also looks like a fun concept but I think it will gain Coffers too easily without the limitation you proposed.  Like Game of Thrones, this could be good in the opening (if you want to gain Coffers and Horses). 

« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 04:01:44 pm by Timinou »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2021, 04:00:01 pm »
+2



Since the benefit of Acts over Action cards seems to be their reliability, being available to purchase at any time, I thought of what ideas I had for cards that would normally just be too swingy if they were normal Actions. Here is one of those. The availability of Refine means you can use it exactly when it would be most beneficial to you, without having to worry about having a card in hand. Considering limiting it to "If you have played no cards this turn", but it made the text far more crowded than it already is. If it's too monolithic then consider the limitation there (I'm free to modify the Acts rules, right?).

This is also looks like a fun concept but I think it will gain Coffers too easily without the limitation you proposed.  Like Game of Thrones, this could be good in the opening if you want to gain Coffers and Horses.

I'd suggest dialing back by changing it to max one per type. "If you revealed a..."
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2021, 06:18:00 pm »
+3

Submissions closed. You may edit entries you've already entered (please show edits in a new post), but no new entries from now on.
It's late here now, I'll have the results up within the next 12 hours.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2021, 02:39:29 am »
+1

EDIT TO Game OF Thrones ACT

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The Alchemist

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2021, 03:54:01 am »
0

Yes, for my submission consider the rules for Acts slightly modified. In my implementation, an Act can only be used as your *first* action played in a turn. You can think of it as choosing either to start your Action phase with the normal +1 Action, or to play the Act.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2021, 06:46:58 am »
+4

Time to call curtains on this contest.

The design rules we seem to have concluded here is: Acts should grant a weak but useful ability that has a light impact on the opening so it doesn't radically speed up the game and narrow the winning strategy possibilities down. They should bear a slight influence on which strategies in the kingdom are the better ones. grrgrrgrr questioned putting other types on them; it makes them much less simple to be sure, and all the entries avoided having any. Probably for the best.

To your entries:

Spineflu

Payload is easy to add to decks this game, but at the cost of a smaller hand each time. It can be a kind of newbie trap, each 3-card hand turn leading to thinking, 'the best thing I can do with this turn is gain another Gold'.
+: It can't simply be used each turn in a big money strategy as the odds of $8 hands are significantly reduced.
-: opening with one or two alongside other buys (at least on turn 1's 5 card hand) could be potentially too big a speedup.
Overview: Another way to open Golds would be a cool thing to add to a game, if it can possibly be balanced. I feel about middle ground here with the pros and cons.
Timinou

A useful engine ability, moving Treasures along to be drawn later.
+: Great use of the Act mechanic, it's there for when the hand is right but the need for +Actions makes it not trivial to use.
-: The way it will be played depends a lot on the presence of a Village in the game. Some players may feel including a Village with it is compulsory. True for most Acts, so this is minor and a sign that I can't really find any major bad point.
Overview: Safe and simple, a pleasant ability to have around.
emtzalex

Players can get one free copy of an Action to their Exile each turn, or a Treasure at the cost of a spent Action.
+: It can build, but not too fast. Also empty piles without getting unwanted gains or gainers in the deck; but because it's once per turn, not too quickly. With the Treasure playing in Action phase as well, that's 3 nifty functions.
-: Nothing serious, only that you don't actually export your cards away like the name may suggest.
Overview: I like this, its adding quite a lot to the game without being overpowering.
Xen3k

Like an Event in that you effectively pay $, but an Action is spent instead of a Buy, and use of Debt enables variable investment amount cleanly.
+: Lots of options varies the opening possibilities, potentially getting players thinking deeply right from the start.
-: The trash option feels pretty powerful; on a $4 opening turn going with trash and the Silver or Horse gain thins whilst helping economy at the same time. The $3 turn could correctly be trash as well.
Overview: There's potential in the premise, but the options could be changed a little. Possibly just remove the trashing.
mxdata

I probably wouldn't have the move to play area rule be general to all Acts anymore, since it doesn't quite work cleanly with multiple use ones. On here though moving it makes sense to remind the user of the Clean-up effect.
+: Some nice uses, like pivoting into different strategies or getting the balance of Villages just right.
-: It feels a tad weak. It could possibly have +1 Action.
Overview: It can be used fine, just maybe its glory moments are few and far between in all random games.
Mahowrath

A way to incorporate extra draw into the deck.
+: Needing 2 Actions to get any draw is probably balanced, so Villages and Villagers aren't doing too much and so there's no effect on the opening.
-: It depends heavily on the kingdom, and often it can do nothing. Not a big issue on a landscape card though.
Overview: niche but occasionally powerful, sometimes tricky to use and sometimes easy. It's quite good.
grrgrrgrr

+1 Villager Act was an idea I thought of pretty quickly, exactly like naitchman's outtake Immigrant. I guess it makes things rather easy, so having the discard cost adds interest.
+: If Copper junk needs to stay in the deck, Villagers are more desirable than Villages, so the cost is sensible. It gives an extra option to the opening.
-: Perhaps a bit weak? Again nothing that negative here, an Act shouldn't be too strong.
Overview: a useful little ability that gets more interesting when there are fewer Villages.
naitchman

An ability that can potentially get one out of a bad spot.
+: Weak but not useless.
-: How often will a hand of 1 be useful? 2 Cards from a hand of 3+ feels more viable while being weaker than Way of the Mole.
Overview: a nice premise, just feels a bit too weak to be worth the punt.
bootymancer

Expedition and 2 Debt after 2 Actions are used on this. Or a Journey token flip for other cards using the token.
+: The Journey token works well, with the interaction with other Journey token cards being safe.
-: Does it need the debt? It does help mitigate the power in a big money deck but it feels too much with the Actions needed as well.
Overview: some good ideas here, but not all together. Either the Journey token or some of the Debt could go.
mathdude

Actions on demand, but at the cost of free cards for the opponents. Another Act that could be moved into play for the end of turn reminder.
+: Simple and effective.
-: It could be swingy sometimes; if both players play the same deck, one could get more draw purely by the chance of terminal collisions.
Overview: the premise is great, and sometimes the decision to use it is interesting. I sense a little room for improvement, but it's by no means bad.
The Alchemist

Either play your turn as normal, or at the start of the Action phase ditch your whole hand for a batch of resources.
+: It's good that gained Horses will weaken using this.
-: With the format of Acts being used at the start of the Action phase only, whilst they can be made more powerful, they need to be extra careful around big money strategies and the opening. Here, something close to overpay for Coffers can take place, leading to very fast games where the only things you need to buy are Provinces and maybe a Silver or two.
Overview: A tempo setting card like Rebuild. I fear it's rather too fast and easy compared to it.
fika monster

Once per turn Throne and Exile.
+: Once per turn limits this from breaking the game like Donald's Throne-then-trash Way outtake did.
-: Strong, in that unlike Throne Room it's always lining up to its target and the target can be regained.
Overview: exciting to be sure, but likely makes things too fast.

Shortlist: Courier, Export, Arcane Conscription, Recruit, Lost Village, Game of Thrones.


Runners-up: Courier by Timinou, Lost Village by mathdude


Winner: Export by emtzalex

All the cards in the shortlist could be played with, I think, but Export adds the most interest overall whilst not appearing imbalanced. So congrats emtzalex!
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2021, 08:42:01 am »
+2

Very nice assessment!

Acts look like an interesting mechanic. I almost submitted something for this contest round, but then I saw grrgrrgrr's Recruit, which is almost identical to the idea that came to my mind.

I have experimented quite a lot with Debt and thus I like the idea of Xen3k's Payoff. I had a Kingdom card with similar features. After some testing, the first option I removed was the trashing option, which turned out to be too much. I thought that the ultimate "Debt for abilities" card is something like Payoff. It is indeed interesting early in a game, but can be a bit annoying later on. Doing this as an Act (or Event) could solve that problem.

Somehow I missed emtzalex's entry, Export. I agree this looks very interesting. Timinou's Courier is interesting as well, and deserves to be a runner up.

Finally, I am glad to see that fika monster simplified their Game of Thrones. This looks much better.

Congratulation to emtzalex for the win and Timinou and mathdude for being runner-ups.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2021, 12:03:29 pm »
0

Winner: Export by emtzalex

All the cards in the shortlist could be played with, I think, but Export adds the most interest overall whilst not appearing imbalanced. So congrats emtzalex!

Wow, thanks!!! I appreciate the judging and your feedback.

I will try to have the next contest up later today.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2021, 02:54:04 pm »
0

Good judging! I appreciate the feedback on Payoff. I agree the trashing is very good early on, but not so much later when the debt is more cumbersome. Additionally, trashing the first two turns does delay buying cheap game warping cards which could make it the "wrong" choice. I will contemplate updating the design.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2021, 03:56:37 pm »
0

good judgement. would GOT have scored a bit better if the action card was trashed instead of exiled?
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2021, 10:10:13 pm »
0

Hey Aquila: do Acts count as a card played? Asking for a conspirator.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2021, 12:09:34 pm »
+2

Hey Aquila: do Acts count as a card played? Asking for a conspirator.

Not my mechanic, but it would be a very weird rules stretch to allow it to work with Conspirator. Conspirator only cares about Actions you've played; (and the general game rules make it clear that by "Actions" it means "action cards"). Acts aren't cards, just like Events, Ways, etc aren't cards.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #11: Acting Sideways
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2021, 04:42:58 am »
+1

Hey Aquila: do Acts count as a card played? Asking for a conspirator.
As Gendo said, Acts are not Actions, so they do nothing for Conspirator.

With Hire, I did say that it counts as a 'played Attack card' for Moats; that's the whole point of the Attack type of course. But, for breaching the rule that sideways cards are not 'cards', all it's achieving is being a pure attack. Other hypothetical Act Attacks would probably be also to keep within their low power cap. So, it's going to be a design flaw in most people's eyes, so Hire probably shouldn't exist.
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