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[infangthief]

Gah, I feel like I'm done with this game. Like Bright I suppose.
Just wish Joth would show up so we know if this is end of day or not.

[jotheonah]

THREAD LOCKED

[jotheonah]

Vote Count 3.3



Brightgalrs(5): mathdude, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, infangthief, Brightgalrs
WestCoastDidds (1): Galzria
infangthief (1): Swowl

Not voting: scolapasta
Not playing: MiX, jotheonah, Ozle, Diddzria
Playing, but dead, PINL: Jimmmmm

Brightgalrs is exiled. He was Urist McMafiaplayer, a GOOD DWARF.

With 8 alive, it took 5 to exile.

Night 4 begins now and ends at 5 pm Wednesday. Night actions are due 5 pm Tuesday.

[jotheonah]

sorry for the delay. This will open tomorrow morning.

[jotheonah]

Good morning you sexy, sexy Dwarves. Two of you are dead. Bummer.

Awaclus has been killed. They were Nimmie Amee, a Munchkin maiden whose boyfriends keep ending up with missing limbs. They were a GOOD DWARF.

infangthief has been stabbed to death. He was Bashful Bashfullsson, an influential Uberwaldian dwarf of Discworld. He was a GOOD DWARF.

Galzria is still hated.
WestCoastDidds is also hated.

Remaining Dwarves: Galzria, WestCoastDidds, Swowl, scolapasta, mathdude

With 5 alive it takes 3 to exile.

Day Four begins now and ends at 9 am Tuesday.

[jotheonah]

How you're all probably feeling about my flips:

[mathdude]

Well, I'm completely lost now.  Those were the two I was suspecting if we made it through the night.  I figured if we do make it through (as we have), then there have to be only 2 scum.  And if only 2 scum in this game, it would make sense to give a role like Awaclus' ability to the scum, to effectively give them an extra vote.

So who's left?
Galz - noticeably absent most of D3, which doesn't give much opportunity to read
Didds - claimed doctor, but in BM and with only 2 scum and a (town?) vig, could there be a scum doc?
Swowl - holding a vig-ability, apparently given by Galz
pasta - has been around and participating all game, but doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot that I've noticed

Do we have any useful leads?  What's up with both Galz and Didds being hated now?  Galz leftover from before or something new?  Does this mean Awaclus set up a chat with Didds, then died or is there another way to become hated?

[Galzria]

My guess is the game is still going because Didds is scum & hated, so we can still Exile her with 2 votes. Swowl is likely town and can still kill you, Math, or Scola at night. If Swowl is killed at night, the Sword will return to me and the game will end in a draw, unless I still have protection from scum from inside the Fortress, in which case town will win. If I’m killed at night instead, Swowl will retain the Sword and the game should end in a draw.

This is all assuming 3 scum, which would be {Math, Scola, Didds}. If there’s only 2, then it’s somewhat traditional ExLo, with 2 hated mechanics and a Sword still in play.

Willing to quick Exile Didds.

Math, is Didds your partner?

[mathdude]

My guess is the game is still going because Didds is scum & hated, so we can still Exile her with 2 votes. Swowl is likely town and can still kill you, Math, or Scola at night. If Swowl is killed at night, the Sword will return to me and the game will end in a draw, unless I still have protection from scum from inside the Fortress, in which case town will win. If I’m killed at night instead, Swowl will retain the Sword and the game should end in a draw.

This is all assuming 3 scum, which would be {Math, Scola, Didds}. If there’s only 2, then it’s somewhat traditional ExLo, with 2 hated mechanics and a Sword still in play.

Willing to quick Exile Didds.

Math, is Didds your partner?

Why do you already want a quick exile.  Isn't that what scum wants?

When you say "draw" - you mean a tie?  Like 1-1 scum/town leftover?  Everywhere I've played, that's a scum win... is that not true here?  Day vote goes to a draw, and at night, scum kills town.

You're talking 3 scum, but I don't see any practical way that works.  Even if you or Didds are scum and we quickhammer, that would put us 2-2 going into night.  I guess this would mean a town doctor, role-blocker, or possibly both?  We would need to come out of the next night at 2-1 (as 1-1 would be a scum win, from my understanding).  So either the claimed doctor (Didds) is town unlike intended quickhammer indicates, or there is a RB that still hasn't been made publicly known, and doesn't seem to have done much.  I believe we've had a kill each night, and an accounting for the vig-axe-sword thing from Swowl every night except the first (which the story seems to say is when Swowl was given the sword, to be used the following night).

So I think about setup.  I know it's BM, but it's still supposed to be reasonably balanced.  I think there has to be 2 scum at this point, or some weird 3rd party role(s) instead.  When Bright flipped town EOD yesterday, I figured that one scum had to be Awaclus - you can ask Swowl or Didds, as I stated this at night in our Snow White QT.  But his role, to give 2 scum a 3rd vote, makes sense for balance.

The only other thing I can think of, with 2 scum... is Galz and Swowl.  If you two get a 2nd kill from night 2 onward, this could make sense.  Did you two come up with a plan for claiming a "sword" that "town Galz" gets to give to "someone else" at the start of the game?  I still don't know how this all fits with Bright's fortress, with scum-Galz in there when Bright died, and it being a scum-kill.  But I guess that's the misinterpretation we've been running with, that it doesn't "protect you", but "has a chance to protect you"?

To answer your question, no, Didds isn't my partner.  And I'm also not willing to quick-hammer anyone at this point.  I think we need to have a discussion before we throw out votes.

[Galzria]

It’sa draw in a 1v1 if town also has a killing action (Sword), and a town win if they additionally have protection from the kill (Fortress).

[scolapasta]

How would quick exile be town? If scum could quickhammer with no other votes, the game would just be over now, right?

I am surprised at the flips as I do now think Galz and WCD could both be town, and fang was one of my two most scummy reads, with Awaclus 3rd. (1st is mathdude)

Or galz could be 3rd party? I could imagine 2 scum, 1 3rd party maybe.

Either way, I don't see any town merit for a quickhammer right now.

Re: the fortress, why I know think likely no scum in there. We now know Bright was town. We also know that the fortress was attacked. And in my own reading now, I see it was damaged. That to me implies that the fortress was the thing that did the protecting, not Didds.

Didds, who did you protect last night?

I have other thoughts, that I'd like to wait to see the answer to that first.

[scolapasta]

I guess I should say, I am strongly planning on a mathdude vote today. I won't yet, but I'll need to be convinced to change my mind.

[mathdude]

How would quick exile be town? If scum could quickhammer with no other votes, the game would just be over now, right?

I am surprised at the flips as I do now think Galz and WCD could both be town, and fang was one of my two most scummy reads, with Awaclus 3rd. (1st is mathdude)

Or galz could be 3rd party? I could imagine 2 scum, 1 3rd party maybe.

Ok, I missed this.  This means that if there are 2 scum outside of Galz/Didds (or even one of them and one other), they can simply quickhammer and end the day, heading into night 2-2 and hope for the best overnight.  If there are 2 scum among me, pasta, and Swowl, this is a pretty easy win for scum, as the remaining 3 (town or 3rd party) have to all vote one of the scum before the two scum quickhammer.

So this tells me scum is either:
1. one of Didds/Galz and one outside (pasta/Swowl), or
2. it's both Didds and Galz.

If (1), then scum still has an opportunity to quickhammer the other Hated player, but risk outing themselves (and having their own Hated player get quickhammered by town first) if one person makes a move and the other is too slow to follow.  Also, it means that, as town, I/we don't want to make the first move, as scum can then quickhammer if we're wrong and make it look like the first voter and the quickhammer-er are the two scum.  Thus, we're in a stalemate, neither side wanting to move first, unless we can figure out which is the right Hated player to kill.

If (2), then we definitely want to hammer one of them, rather than looking outside, obviously.  And it's only if scum can get one of us to turn on another that they have a chance to hammer us.

So all that being said... pasta, I don't see any use in you voting for me.  Since scum hasn't quickhammered one of the Hated players yet (and 3 of the 5 have been online already, so there would be at least 1 vote already unless it's Didds/Swowl), that tells me we should be strongly suspecting one or both of Didds and Galz.

The only slightly townie thing you've done in this, pasta, is not actually vote for me (even though you said you plan to).

[mathdude]

Still thinking stuff through - possible set-ups for 2 scum, so they aren't overpowered...

Awaclus' role to make someone hated (and ability to get a 3rd vote) - obviously wasn't the case.

Galz/Swowl as a way to get a 2nd kill from night 2 onward (unless they also had the option night 1 but got RBed or something).

I guess the other possibility, with a (potentially town) vig... is a scum doctor.  At which point, Didds is obviously scum.  That seems a weak way to balance 2 scum in this large game, especially with potential protection from fortress.  But I guess it's possible.

I'm more likely to believe Galz/Swowl are scum.  But I'm admitting it's possible it's Didds with someone else - could be any of you 3 though, and I'll have to read back to see what sort of connections there might be between Didds and someone else.

[scolapasta]

I did forget about the hated aspect in my above posts.

Will think more on this all later tonight.

[WestCoastDidds]

Du fuq? I was certain fang was scum. Ugh. So pretty much what I know now is that at least one and possibility both of my qts are corrupt. Or Joth is a bastard and there is no scum team. Having a game that just ended with a paid of deaths due to bodyguard, Swowl axe could explain both deaths. But I could be reaching since that is how I died over there.

I doctored Scola last night.

Galz talks about the fortress protection like he is COMPLETELY unaware that it isn’t protective if there is scum there and that it protected Bright. He is pushing me by just ignoring things we’ve already established. It’s super frustrating. I don’t think Galz is scum..a compulsive vigilante weapon that he gives away seems too powerful in conjunction with a NK. But 3p seems entirely possible. There is no explanation for his hated, is there?

Scola is punching Galz here and in our qt in ways that make me feel warmly toward him. But I am certain that all of you know how to do that with me. Well, maybe not math, but everyone else!

Awa sent me a love not last night, but he died so he couldn’t meet me under the bridge. Thus, hated.

I haven’t parsed all of math’s posts yet.

So, I feel like I have to look hard at the 7d and it makes me sad. Math has been super open but again, I don’t know him well and it could be for show. I don’t feel like Swowl is scum. But I have huge blond spots for that freaking owl, so I’ll allow that my feelings may not be helpful. There is no way around the fact that his deciding to keep the axe mens it had to be used rather than having a night off while it transits.

I’m not down for the quick hammer! Galz saying “hell yeah! The Didds could be dead” is decidedly not awesome.

I’m also aware that we have had no discussion of anyone’s power beyond my doc, awa’s hated, and the axe sword.

[Galzria]

@ Swowl:

Do you still claim to have the Sword?

[mathdude]

Didds, you will probably want to read my posts. I know you said you haven't yet. But in them, I think there's pretty clear evidence that you or Galz or both are scum. So for you to say you don't think Galz is scum is either a scum move or a blind town statement. I'm inclined to believe the first, which still doesn't clear Galz.

Also, if only 2 scum, I think a compulsive vig item fully makes sense, from a balance perspective. I would have expected 3 scum with our numbers.

Either that, or koth is really messing with us

[Galzria]

In Joth’s last BM game, everyone was scum.

I will die laughing if it’s the opposite this game.

[scolapasta]

WCD, why would you protect me last night? In what scenario would scum have targeted me?

[mathdude]

Didds, would you vote (first) for Galz if we think that's the way to go?

Galz, would you vote Swowl if we decide the vote is between the two of you?

Swowl, would you rather we vote Galz or Didds first? And do you think one or both of them are scum?

[Galzria]

Scum teams pretty much have one of three possibilities from my perspective:

{Math, Didds, Scola}, {Swowl, Didds}, {Swowl, Math}

Swowl cannot be part of a 3 person team AND have the Sword still. If there IS a 3 person team, the only reason we’re still playing is because Swowl has the Sword and control of a town NK.

My vote preference is Didds, far greater than anybody else, then maaaybe Swowl second. I could also be convinced to go Math if Scola was dead set on it as he’s my best guess (beyond Swowl) to be town & I think that is Scola is scum, so is Math anyway, so I think it would be a gambit on their end.

[Galzria]

Scum teams pretty much have one of three possibilities from my perspective:

{Math, Didds, Scola}, {Swowl, Didds}, {Swowl, Math}

Swowl cannot be part of a 3 person team AND have the Sword still. If there IS a 3 person team, the only reason we’re still playing is because Swowl has the Sword and control of a town NK.

My vote preference is Didds, far greater than anybody else, then maaaybe Swowl second. I could also be convinced to go Math if Scola was dead set on it as he’s [Scola] my best guess (beyond Swowl) to be town & I think that ifScola is scum, so is Math anyway, so I think it would be a gambit on their end.

Holy typos and unclear subject matter Batman! I've got to stop posting from my phone!

EBOWP

[Swowl]

Swowl chuckles at the flips, thinking about how funny it would be if there were actually no skum.
Swowl points out that that would be kind of unlikely as we have had pretty consistent presence of a kill that is not the axe-sword.

Swowl rubs his tiny stupid dwarf head, and says skum to chum is Pasta/WCD->Galz->Math.

Swowl pulls out the axe-sword and shows it to the town, explaining he does still have it.

Swowl thinks that mass claim may be beneficial at this point? Though do to it being a BM... he is doubtful on how much. Swowl would like to know what others think of that.

[Swowl]

Swowl agrees with Galz logic regarding keeping of the sword, pointing out he did not have any idea how many skum were alive, so keeping the sword was kind of "best defense is a sword that must murder someone at night" offense type thing.