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[mathdude]

Bright, is the mention of fortress attacked in your QT indicative of fortress protection or its it possible you could have been saved by doctor? If it's possible it's a doctor, I'll vote Didds.

I assume you mean the Fortress QT, as that's the only place mentioning an attack. And that message from joth definitely says, paraphrasing, that the Fortress itself was the thing that resisted the attack.

Alright, I'll vote Didds. Reasons: 1) Oddness of what wasn't said day 1, which I've explained (maybe poorly) on day 1, go read my posts from then. 2) Two protection roles in a somewhat small game, and essentially with a townie vigilante. Points to mafia doctor. 3) Pubby, who ended up being town, being suspicious of Didds. Might as well use his insight now, even if it's a little late.

Vote: WestCoastDidds

That should be 4 votes on Didds if fang's vote count is correct. ie. it's one more to exile.

If the fortress protected, now "confirmed" by Bright, then Didds didn't need to doctor Bright. If all indications from Didds and Bright so far say that no scum were in the fortress, we either believe them (and then vote "no exile"), or we call them liars and vote out one of Didds or Bright. Go check my long post for reasoning.

If we are calling them liars and exiling from within the fortress, I'd rather vote Bright, even though I believe Didds is at E--1. If we are wrong, and the fortress is all town, I'd rather have Didds alive as a doctor tonight. If we are right, and the fortress is scum, it shouldn't matter which of the 3 we exile (and I suspect it is, since that empty 4th slot still hasn't been filled, which tells me they are using it for day chat and it was a strategic ploy to get pubby out and Bright's scum-buddies in).

@Bright, some answers please, what's going on?

You're bussing, with terrible logic so that everyone else on the wagon hops off, is that it?

And this, exactly, was what I was thinking too.

Vote: Bright

[Awaclus]

Vote: Bright

If everything Bright has told us so far is true, Didds has to be town.

[Awaclus]

Which is not to say that Didds has to be town. It's just that if Didds is scum, Bright is necessarily scum too, whereas Bright could at least technically be scum without Didds.

[Awaclus]

I'm willing to go back to Didds if we can't get a Bright exile through, but as far as I can tell, it just seems strictly better to exile Bright today.

[infangthief]

I'm willing to go back to Didds if we can't get a Bright exile through, but as far as I can tell, it just seems strictly better to exile Bright today.

I'm thinking and might go either way on this.

Bright needs to explain what he thinks happened with fortress protection last night.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, is your information about the principles of how fortress protection works coming from Bright or from Joth, primarily?

Joth provided the initial info and then the back chat from Bright.  Here is what I am drawing from:

The invite from Joth says it may offer protection if I trust the builder. The flavor text each day says that inviting bad dwarves may cut against the effectiveness of the its protections. 

In the fortress, Bright said is that the bad guys seems to be held back by the fortress and hanging out in the fortress is good for those in it . He guessed that perhaps it protected from night kills or something along those lines and then added that having scum in the fortress nullified its protection.  This is drawn from two posts from his conversation with pubby about the fortress.  That is all he has said.

PPE some

[infangthief]

Didds, is your information about the principles of how fortress protection works coming from Bright or from Joth, primarily?

And this of course.

And a long wait here just makes it more likely that Didds and Bright (and Galzria?) are having a big conflab in the fortress trying to come up with a coherent narrative.

Galzria been active in the fortress today? I didn't get an answer when I asked before.

PPe 1 oh, you answered, thanks.

[WestCoastDidds]

nah, vote: Didds

I'm going to trust my day 1 reads more than what Didds and Bright are now claiming the flavour text might imply.
Bright, Didds or Galzria could easily have brought up this flavour text thing earlier in the day. And it was clearly no obstacle to Galzria voting for Didds at the start of the day.

Dude, no way. I have been completely consistent about what the fortress stuff is all about all day.  Saying its a wash because it should have happened sooner isn't fair. I am not the one who twisted it all around to get to a place where I am scum. That was Awaclus. And I am not the one who ever wavered or changed stories. That was Bright.

You can vote for me because you are scum and want to get off an easy exile, or because you are jealous you didn't get to frolick among the trees, but not because of anything fortress related.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds, is your information about the principles of how fortress protection works coming from Bright or from Joth, primarily?

And this of course.

And a long wait here just makes it more likely that Didds and Bright (and Galzria?) are having a big conflab in the fortress trying to come up with a coherent narrative.

Galzria been active in the fortress today? I didn't get an answer when I asked before.

PPe 1 oh, you answered, thanks.

The fortress is completely dead.  (As is the 7 dwarves qt, mostly). There are less than ten posts from D3, and the last post wasn't written by me was on Thursday evening...the last one written by me was Friday morning. There is no scheming of discussion or even any funny jokes or owl memes.

[Awaclus]

I am not the one who twisted it all around to get to a place where I am scum. That was Awaclus. And I am not the one who ever wavered or changed stories. That was Bright.

I never twisted anything around to get to a place where you are scum. I started from a place where you were scum, and looked at the story that was presented to figure out whether that assumption was consistent with the story, which it was. Now Bright changed the story so it's no longer consistent.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am not the one who twisted it all around to get to a place where I am scum. That was Awaclus. And I am not the one who ever wavered or changed stories. That was Bright.

I never twisted anything around to get to a place where you are scum. I started from a place where you were scum, and looked at the story that was presented to figure out whether that assumption was consistent with the story, which it was. Now Bright changed the story so it's no longer consistent.

Okay. I apologize if that was a mischaracterization. I am and have been frustrated because I can't get my head around the twists that narrative requires.

[scolapasta]

OK, there's an easy way to prove that the fortress is not all scum and using it for day chat.  Just invite someone in RIGHT NOW.

Done.

I'd suggest me, because I know I'm town, but I trust whoever of you do it (Didds or Bright, since you're both active right now) to pick your townies read. BUT I also suggest you pick someone who is active, too. So they can immediately confirm this.

If there's no invite and the two of you keep posting, then you've got to be scum. (or go aheah and try to offer a plausible explanation why not)

[WestCoastDidds]

I would really prefer that we not exile me. I think fang is a better choice, but I will

vote: Bright

I will invite you, scola.

[WestCoastDidds]

I sent the invite to Joth. I am off to teach now...

[scolapasta]

I sent the invite to Joth. I am off to teach now...

OK. I'll report back if / when I get it / join. There's clearly a timing thing. And this won't full prove non scum but at least that it will show that they aren't afraid to invite town.

[scolapasta]

I just received the invite for the fortress. I haven't accepted yet.

Before I do, I'd be curious to see what others think. Here is a concern I have. - that there is already scum in the fortress but they have not used the day chat. (I think getting the invitation was useful)

But if I join, and someone dies tonight, then they will try to blame me as the scum.

So what happens if I don't accept? Can you send a different invite? How long is the invite valid for?

Should I join? (again, the main thing I wanted to try to prove is to see if they were all scum and using daychat. I think the invite is likely enough proof that that is not true)

[infangthief]

Good move scola, and also good move not just accepting right away; you're right, just getting the invite is a big step already.

This is interesting, because earlier Didds was quite sure about there being no scum in Snow White or Fortress neighbourhoods, and said you (and I) were real unknowns.

Now she's not batted an eyelid at inviting you (possible scum) into the fortress.

I would certainly be hesitant about accepting the invitation, for reasons I don't want to give right now.

[scolapasta]

Right, I'm suprised she instantly chose me (and not someone else - swowl, for example).

[WestCoastDidds]

Swowl was definitely my top town read, but I don't have time today to dither. Too busy with life classes. But here is what I am thinking....

If we exile Brighty, the fortress will die anyway (I think). If scola is scum, the fortess will lose its protection but the whole idea of protection was already mostly irrelevant because the people in the fortress are now widely known, as its protective ability. Scum can easily target one of the people who aren't in it.  So, I didn't realize see what I had to lose by sharing access and I see that I can gain a trusted reporter on the abilities of the fortress.  Really, Galz should be doing this since he already has access, but he is notably absent so, whatevs.

You asked to be invited, so I invited you. I didn't choose so much as honor your wishes. 

[infangthief]

vote: Bright X-1

[WestCoastDidds]

Good move scola, and also good move not just accepting right away; you're right, just getting the invite is a big step already.

This is interesting, because earlier Didds was quite sure about there being no scum in Snow White or Fortress neighbourhoods, and said you (and I) were real unknowns.

Now she's not batted an eyelid at inviting you (possible scum) into the fortress.

I would certainly be hesitant about accepting the invitation, for reasons I don't want to give right now.

You and scola being unknowns is still true.  I didn't invite him because I thought he was town.  I invited him because he wanted to be invited and he can verify what I have said about what happened last night. Even if he is scum, if he lies about that, Galz and Brighty can call him out.  If I am wrong about Glaz and Bright, and just invited the third scum to the lair, then my goose was probably already cooked.

[scolapasta]

Swowl was definitely my top town read, but I don't have time today to dither. Too busy with life classes. But here is what I am thinking....

If we exile Brighty, the fortress will die anyway (I think). If scola is scum, the fortess will lose its protection but the whole idea of protection was already mostly irrelevant because the people in the fortress are now widely known, as its protective ability. Scum can easily target one of the people who aren't in it.  So, I didn't realize see what I had to lose by sharing access and I see that I can gain a trusted reporter on the abilities of the fortress.  Really, Galz should be doing this since he already has access, but he is notably absent so, whatevs.

You asked to be invited, so I invited you. I didn't choose so much as honor your wishes.

I guess part of why I struggle with this fortress protection is the "town core" idea. Let's say everyone in there is town and you add me, I am town and we all trust each other. That's 4 unattackable town right (outside of 3rd party, but imagine Galz was the D1 exile).

If that's true, I join, then scum has no chance of winning, even with 7 still alive. That seems too bastardy. So just the idea of this protection defined as is seems less believable.

[Brightgalrs]

Post #771, it's quite long, but there are a couple of places in it where you seem to be seriously considering that your protection might have come from elsewhere.

Uh, no?
Quote the bits that make you think that. I'll wait.

[Brightgalrs]

Anyway, I won't fight this exile too hard. The Fortress continues existing after I die, so Gal or whoever can keep it going.
And I "meant" to die last night anyway.

Infact, let's just do this:
Vote: Brightgalrs

[WestCoastDidds]

Swowl was definitely my top town read, but I don't have time today to dither. Too busy with life classes. But here is what I am thinking....

If we exile Brighty, the fortress will die anyway (I think). If scola is scum, the fortess will lose its protection but the whole idea of protection was already mostly irrelevant because the people in the fortress are now widely known, as its protective ability. Scum can easily target one of the people who aren't in it.  So, I didn't realize see what I had to lose by sharing access and I see that I can gain a trusted reporter on the abilities of the fortress.  Really, Galz should be doing this since he already has access, but he is notably absent so, whatevs.

You asked to be invited, so I invited you. I didn't choose so much as honor your wishes.

I guess part of why I struggle with this fortress protection is the "town core" idea. Let's say everyone in there is town and you add me, I am town and we all trust each other. That's 4 unattackable town right (outside of 3rd party, but imagine Galz was the D1 exile).

If that's true, I join, then scum has no chance of winning, even with 7 still alive. That seems too bastardy. So just the idea of this protection defined as is seems less believable.

I am not confident that you are town, but perhaps more important is that after the hit last night, the fortress is now shaky so I don't think it forever protection. My best guess is that after another hit, it collapses.