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[Swowl]

Swowl points out he has already made it clear that the others of the 7 dwarves thread knew he was going to target Bright.

[Awaclus]

Swowl points out he has already made it clear that the others of the 7 dwarves thread knew he was going to target Bright.

Sorry, it wasn't that clear to me for some reason.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Didds

[Swowl]

Swowl is sad.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yes, I knew he was going to target Bright. As did the rest of my qt. We specifically talked about bright being 3p, or scummy, and/or protected by the fortress. I’m still not convinced he’s not 3p, but I’m not sure that the fortress protects with scum in it so I’m assuming that neither he nor Galz are scum.

I doctored Awaclus last night, which I also told the qt. If someone tracked me, they know it, too.

I woke up this morning wondering if there were no scum in this game (very Joth!) but Fang and pasta are real unknowns.

[infangthief]

I woke up this morning wondering if there were no scum in this game (very Joth!) but Fang and pasta are real unknowns.

I woke up this morning wondering whether the whole fortress and snow white neighbourhoods are bad dwarves.

[Brightgalrs]

I'm not sure I agree with the passing-on-information-is-scum is scummy thing. Being in two neighborhoods, it seems like Didds might have thought of themself as a messenger. Still probably should've said what they were doing though. However, my suspicions from Day 1, which clearly I dropped for Day 2 with the whole pubby thing, might still hold. So maybe I could be persuaded to vote on that principle.

I doctored Awaclus last night, which I also told the qt. If someone tracked me, they know it, too.

Also did I miss when Didds claimed they were a literal doctor in this thread, besides the above post? It's the not first slip-up I've noticed so far, because  I never actually said my neighborhood was a "Fortress" yesterday, I think pubby accidentally called it that in one of his posts.

I was about to propose a mass roleclaim here, since we apparently have so much protection to go around., but isn't that strange? An entire neighborhood that protects from kills, and a doctor? Since we essentially have a townie vigilante, Didds as a mafia doctor does seem like something.

[Awaclus]

I doctored Awaclus last night, which I also told the qt. If someone tracked me, they know it, too.

Thanks, Doc

Anyway, obviously there's no way you could claim you're targeting Bright in that situation because it would be incredibly scummy, so the best you can do is to commit to a fake claim early and hope nobody tracks you. And scum generally has to make themselves vulnerable to a tracker in order to commit the night kill anyway, so your team could just have you commit the kill and fakeclaim who you're doctoring to effectively kill two birds with one stone, without having to take any extra risks.

(because me somehow dying despite your doctoring is not that big of a risk when you know the vig is targeting someone else, there probably isn't a second vig since there hasn't ever been two deaths, and even if there was one, you're obviously going to claim to doctor who you think is the least likely vig target because anything else wouldn't make sense as a claim anyway — and if I got killed despite it being highly unlikely, it's not even hard to come up with plausible explanations for why that could happen through a doctor protection).

You might even be pretty sure there isn't a tracker in the game at this point, considering how many people's roles are already known plus whatever extra info you might have from being in the QTs.

So basically that is an incredibly unimpressive defense, unless a tracker actually saw you do it.

[mathdude]

I don’t think so...let me check. I did not. Actually rereading, I’m not talking much in the fortress except to ask the questions Swowl wants to know the answer to.

I’m pretty much ride or die with the 7 dwarves. I’ve told them everything from the beginning and as it’s happening.

Didds has been fairly open with us in Snow White QT, openly admitting that she is trying to find out useful information to share with us.  As for the "ride or die", that's the impression I've gotten, so I'm not surprised to hear her say this.  I'm not in the same boat... I've openly told them in QT, I really don't know whether I can trust either of them.  I feel like they are both leading my opinions a little more than I want, and I have followed them, helping vote out Jimmmmm D1 and pubby D2, both of which were the wrong choice (well, neutral choice D2, as I was the alternative, but I'm glad I'm still alive to try to figure this out today).

Swowl rubs his head in confusion about Fang's theory regarding WCD. Swowl points out that if WCD was a Bad Dwarf, then by the way the information was presented, Swowl's shot at Bright should of killed Bright. Swowl continues to speak, explaining that obviously it did not... therefore, by WCD and Fang's logic, there are in fact no bad dwarfs in the Fortress.

Swowl understands that that may not be how the fortress actually works, but says that it is 100% how WCD relayed what she thought about how she knew it worked.

I'm stuck in the same boat here, confused about Didds, and also confused about fortress protection.  As Swowl said, my understanding (based on what Didds has said) is that if there is scum in the fortress, protection is invalid (and thus, a target on someone there, who Swowl has now said was Bright, should have successfully killed).  If Didds is scum, and may have relayed false information to us, it is now in the open and Bright can call it out and we can exile Didds.  But if the information is correct, then that clears Bright, Didds, and Galz as non-scum (can't guarantee not third party).

However, this leaves only 5 (me, Swowl, Awaclus, pasta, and fang)... and for any of us in those 5, only 4... of which 2 or 3 are likely scum (earlier I had been assuming 3 total, but now I'm starting to wonder if just 2).  I'll go back and look at the votes later, but I believe most of them (Swowl excluded) have been off-wagon of day exiles, which would be very fortunate for them that town or Swowl was the only ones pushing town-exiles.

Although, maybe that was the plan... Swowl, with extra sway to get me and Didds to follow, pushes one wagon that goes through, to hopefully make his other scum-buddies (1 or 2 of Awaclus, pasta, and fang) look like they were trying not to exile the people that ended up flipping town.

My only problem with this theory is, given the protection information Swowl knew, why would he not just use the sword to kill me or someone else not in the fortress to be in a better position today?  Does it make him look more townie, to have his kill attempt protected?  Did he think by leaving me alive that I'd just vote with him again?  I think this tells me that he only has 1 partner, because if he had 2 other partners, and he had a 2nd successful kill last night, they would be at 4-3 and Swowl still has the sword, I think.

But what's more concerning is her willingness to relay how the fortress protection works outside the fortress. That information is priceless to Bad Dwarves, so surely a Good Dwarf only does that if they know (somehow) that there is already a Bad Dwarf inside the fortress.

This may be a relevant point about Didds sharing information D2, though sharing misinformation about the fortress, if she's scum, as a way to direct me and/or Swowl (but not killing us last night) seems dangerous, when information shared in QTs can be confirmed or proven wrong in game here.

However, today, I think it would be best if Bright can at least confirm whether we are correct or not in our interpretation.  If having scum in the fortress means protection doesn't work, then we have 3 conf-towns (or 3 scums).  If we're wrong, Bright doesn't need to tell us everything, but can at least confirm that we don't have 3 conf-towns.

[mathdude]

Swowl pulls out a whiteboard with the writings of the peak of the WCD wagon on Day 1. It reads:
WestCoastDidds (6): pubby, faust, mathdude, infangthief, Jimmmmm, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (3): Swowl, WestCoastDidds, EFHW
Galzria (1): scolapasta
pubby (1): Brightgalrs
infangthief (1): Galzria

Swowl points out that right after the L-1 vote Awaclus immediately leaves the wagon for Pubby, who is the other wagon. Swowl finds this towny.

I don't see how this is townie.  If Didds is scum, then leaving the Didds wagon at L-1 is very scummy.  Or are you still working under the assumption that everyone in Snow White QT is non-scum?  I don't think you can do that.  Didds might be scum.  You might be scum (which then makes sense that you are painting me and Didds as town, to try and convince us to vote with you).

Swowl also points out that the leading players on the Didds wagon (at peak) have both flipped town. This makes it extremely likely that one of the following players that joined said wagon are skum.

Again, I think this only makes sense if Didds is town.

I doctored Awaclus last night, which I also told the qt. If someone tracked me, they know it, too.

Also did I miss when Didds claimed they were a literal doctor in this thread, besides the above post? It's the not first slip-up I've noticed so far, because  I never actually said my neighborhood was a "Fortress" yesterday, I think pubby accidentally called it that in one of his posts.

I know Didds claimed in QT.  But I've just gone back to look, and she did at least claim the flavour-name of Doc in game as well:

I’m Doc. I have a nieighborhood with some of the other 7 dwarves.

and then later, sort of claimed to be an in-game doctor:

Because I am a doc! But, of course, not that kind of doctor says every PhD everywhere.

The neighborhood had three people, including me. We all know each other’s dwarf names

[jotheonah]

Vote Count 3.1



WestCoastDidds (3): Galzria, infangthief, Awaclus
infangthief (1): Swowl

Not voting: scolapasta, mathdude, Brightgalrs, WestCoastDidds
Not playing: MiX, jotheonah, Ozle, Diddzria
Playing, but dead, PINL: Jimmmmm

Galzria is hated. It takes one less vote to exile him.

scolapasta has been granted ONE MILLION DOLLARS. They have no effect on mafia gameplay.

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 3 ends Monday at 5 pm forum time.

[WestCoastDidds]

I woke up this morning wondering if there were no scum in this game (very Joth!) but Fang and pasta are real unknowns.

I woke up this morning wondering whether the whole fortress and snow white neighbourhoods are bad dwarves.

5 scum??

[WestCoastDidds]

Or were you just facetious?

Vote: fang

[Awaclus]

I'm stuck in the same boat here, confused about Didds, and also confused about fortress protection.  As Swowl said, my understanding (based on what Didds has said) is that if there is scum in the fortress, protection is invalid (and thus, a target on someone there, who Swowl has now said was Bright, should have successfully killed).  If Didds is scum, and may have relayed false information to us, it is now in the open and Bright can call it out and we can exile Didds.  But if the information is correct, then that clears Bright, Didds, and Galz as non-scum (can't guarantee not third party).

Don't listen to Didds, Didds is scum.

Here's everything you need to know about the fortress:

• The fortress protects everyone in it, as long as everyone in it is town (source: Bright)
• Didds is a doctor (source: Didds)
• Didds knew who Swowl was going to target (source: Didds and Swowl, you can probably see it directly in the QT as well)
• Therefore faking the fortress protection would have been trivial for scum!Didds, and so, the fact that the kill didn't go through doesn't do anything, not even a little bit, to clear Didds from suspicions (although it does clear any hypothetical team without Didds but with someone else from the fortress)

There are a few more things that are possibly worth noting, although we don't immediately learn anything useful from them:

• According to Bright's claim that he's not completely sure about because joth's wording wasn't completely clear, the fortress protection only works against attacks that originate from scum. Swowl could be scum, and he could technically be the origin of that kill, in which case the protection could have been active. If Galzria is technically the origin, the protection couldn't have been active because he would have to be both scum and town, which probably isn't possible even in a BM game. If Swowl is town, the only way the protection could have been active is if Bright is misinterpreting how his role works.
• Bright's entire claim about the fortress having any protection, or parts of it, could technically be lies, since there's only a weak, non-conclusive confirmation for them (which is the message they received when the fortress was attacked). However, I'm inclined to think it's true, because to me, right now Bright really looks like someone whose abilities have produced unexpected results and he's trying to figure out what on earth is going on, not like someone who came up with a plan to use a fake claim to further some specific agenda. Furthermore, it doesn't really matter all that much whether he actually was telling the truth, as long as scum!Didds believed it and/or assumed that town would.

[Awaclus]

Also, it seems like the only person who hasn't checked in after my vote on Didds is scolapasta. Either Didds is scum, or there is at most 1 scum in [Swowl, mathdude, Bright], unless scum has simply chosen not to take this opportunity to quickhammer.

That realization turned out to be less impressive than I thought it would be before I had worked it out, but since I made it, I might as well post it I guess.

[Swowl]

Swowl points out there could be more than 1 "scum" within [Swowl, Math, Bright], but 2/3 of them cannot be partners under the assumption that WCD is Town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Or there are scum in Galz, Fang, Awa and they can’t quickhammer because they are the freaking scum.

[WestCoastDidds]

The mental gymnastics that it takes for Awa to be right require that
1. I talk Swowl into targeting someone in the fortress (this did not happen)
2. That Swowl tells me who he is targeting in time for me to doctor that person
3. That the person is someone I can doctor and my shot is successful (these are hazy to me because Joth)
4. That there could be a scum doctor

[scolapasta]

I don't think 1 has to be true. As long as you knew he was targeting someone in the fortress, scum!Didds could take advantage of that fact.

[WestCoastDidds]

And I don’t know what the point would be.

If I was scum, I would want someone to die. Saving them would be counter productive

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't think 1 has to be true. As long as you knew he was targeting someone in the fortress, scum!Didds could take advantage of that fact.

But why would I?

[scolapasta]

It's been a busy day, so a question that is probably somewhere in the posts above?

Didds did you claim to doctor Bright?

If so, then why exactly are we assuming the fortress actually did any protecting?

[Swowl]

Swowl explains to pasta that the people in the fortress got a message stating it was attacked and that WCD claimed to doctor Awaclus.

[infangthief]

Or were you just facetious?

Vote: fang

I was trying to be funny but probably missed the mark a bit on that one. (Fang wonders why he doesn't have many friends...)
But it is true that I tend to find the non-neighbourhood folk townier than the ones with the neighbourhoods. Maybe I am feeling left out after all.

PPE 1

[WestCoastDidds]

I doctored Awaclus.

We are assuming the fortress protected because Swowl aimed the axesword at Bright, and because this morning we were told that the fortress had been attacked.