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[scolapasta]

I feel so left out - am I the only one not in an QT?? (I think maybe fang or faust?)

Which is probably why i also am just unsure of anything.

SO to understand better what exactly does the fortress protect against? and how does it protect, i.e. it seems like those in the fortress were able to learn the fortress was attacked? But not who specifically or by whom, some sort of generic, "the fortress was attacked last night".

[mathdude]

Awaclus - able to make QT with one person at the cost of that person becoming hated, is in QT with Galz today, was the deciding vote on Jimmmmm (to get an exile instead of stalemate D1).

If you're looking for data points about my voting behavior, you might want to consider the time I voluntarily used a hated-causing ability on pubby, thereby contributing towards his exile by one vote (while I didn't know it would do that, you only have my word for that and you can't assume I'm telling the truth) instead of the time I was forced to hammer an exile that wasn't one of my top preferred exiles because deadline was approaching, we needed to exile someone, and nobody else was doing anything about it.

I do understand what you did, wanting to get an actual exile rather than leaving it tied.  Absent of other town-kill abilities, it is the only way we can kill scum.  But it's BM and anything can happen here.  It wasn't the end of the world if we waited until the next day to see what information came out.  You are focused on the "we needed to exile someone", and I don't think that was true.  To me though, this is not a major concern with your logic, just something that I wanted to point out as an observation.

There's not much too weigh in on concerning the "Fortress". Everything Joth has been reporting in the QT (which Didds and Galz can/have explained) is basically what I was told or more.

There is something interesting about the wording of my role though, it says, paraphrasing, that the fortress only helps against the mafia. I'm probably reading too much into it, since the wording also doesn't explicitly say we have night chat, but that could point to 1) the protection not working against townie kills, which would be worrying, see below, and 2) there is no third party that can kill.

I'm inclined to believe 2), which or me clears Galz (who would be most suspicious) as being a serial killer or whatever.

Reading into 1) a little more, it means either I didn't die last night for some other reason, or that Galz is scum, ie. the kill "technically" originates from him, and that fulfills the requirements for Fortress protection from a kill. I don't know what to believe there.

Moving on, there's the "fact" that it's bad if Bad Dwarfs get into the Fortress. But see, the flavor/logic there would be the bad dwarf could let scum into the fortress, letting them kill, ie. removing the Fortress's protection. But that flavor/logic doesn't work if it's a Townie kill. So if you live and die by the flavor, you once again might consider that I survived Swowl's kill for some other reason and also still be suspicious of Galz and Didds.

Anyway, I'm travelling, I'll post again tomorrow.

I'm confused still.  If scum is in the fortress, it removes the fortress's protection, which only protects against scum?  But if Swowl's kill originated from Galz, and you're saying that means a target on someone in the fortress wouldn't work because of your protection, but if Galz is scum then the protection wouldn't work (since scum is in the fortress) so the kill should go through.

So having only 1 kill, that should mean one of the following:

• Swowl was RBed
• Swowl is lying and didn't target anyone
• Swowl is lying and did kill faust
• the mafia kill didn't go through because they were RBed
• the mafia didn't send a kill
• the mafia kill didn't go through because it targeted the fortress and there is no scum in there
• the sword is the mafia kill, which targeted faust, and Galz is lying that the fortress was targeted last night
• our understanding of the fortress is wrong

A number of these (not just #7) hinge on the fact that we believe the fortress was targeted last night, based on Galz' statement.  If Bright and Didds can confirm that the fortress was actually targeted, we can eliminate many of these options.  If Galz' statement is incorrect, then Galz and Swowl have to be scum, I believe.  (If only 1 of Bright and Didds confirm and the other denies, then I think that means the person "confirming" is scum with Galz/Swowl).

Assuming we do get that confirmation noted above, then we are down to #3 (and then scum targeted someone in the fortress), #6 (which then also requires #3 to be true), or #8.  The combination of #3 and #6 only makes some sense again if Swowl is scum, I believe - why would Swowl lie about who he targeted, unless he thought the fact that the fortress being targeted (by his scum team) and kill not going through (by mod reveal) could be redirected as the scum kill was faust.

I'm really starting to think we have this whole protection-fortress thing misunderstood.  Because the thought process I've been working through and typing above is just getting really convoluted and making less and less sense.  I want to say that Swowl is Town, using a Scum sword (from Galz), which is why the target of someone in the fortress didn't go through... but that means Galz is scum, so that means we misunderstand how the fortress protects people (since he is scum and is in the fortress!)

Are there any people who can confirm that the fortress only gives protection if everyone in it is town, or do we have to take Bright's word for it?

Yes, this would be helpful.

Hi Didds, the information about the axe-sword and the information about the fortress protection if there are no scum in it, did you relay these to Swowl during day 2 or during night 2?

Of course, Swowl or mathdude you could answer this also.

Some information about the fortress protection was mentioned immediately after hammer - I believe that was the first mention.  It was then clarified for the next 24 hours, with more clarifying information coming just before night-action-deadline.

[scolapasta]

Some information about the fortress protection was mentioned immediately after hammer - I believe that was the first mention.  It was then clarified for the next 24 hours, with more clarifying information coming just before night-action-deadline.

Where was this info? Or do you mean in a QT?

[mathdude]

Some information about the fortress protection was mentioned immediately after hammer - I believe that was the first mention.  It was then clarified for the next 24 hours, with more clarifying information coming just before night-action-deadline.

Where was this info? Or do you mean in a QT?

Yes, in our Snow White QT, as indicated by the quote directly above my statement that you quoted:

Hi Didds, the information about the axe-sword and the information about the fortress protection if there are no scum in it, did you relay these to Swowl during day 2 or during night 2?

Of course, Swowl or mathdude you could answer this also.

Some information about the fortress protection was mentioned immediately after hammer - I believe that was the first mention.  It was then clarified for the next 24 hours, with more clarifying information coming just before night-action-deadline.

But I realize now, it was being asked about both the axe-sword info and the fortress protection info.  I missed the first part (and only answered the fortress protection part).

For the axe-sword, I believe there are bits of information about that scattered all throughout our QT (even us trying to figure it out when Swowl got it, before Didds and Galz ended up in fortress).  It's a constant back and forth between Swowl and Didds, asking questions, trying to clarify, obviously Didds checking with Galz in fortress QT, etc.)  There's not one clear time of "here's information about the axe/sword", unlike with the fortress protection, where discussion about it is mainly concentrated at the two points mentioned.

[mathdude]

I feel so left out - am I the only one not in an QT?? (I think maybe fang or faust?)

Which is probably why i also am just unsure of anything.

SO to understand better what exactly does the fortress protect against? and how does it protect, i.e. it seems like those in the fortress were able to learn the fortress was attacked? But not who specifically or by whom, some sort of generic, "the fortress was attacked last night".

I don't believe fang is in a QT, that we know of.

faust is dead.

Vote: pasta

There, don't feel so left out anymore?

Unvote

[scolapasta]

you're right, I forgot faust was dead.

fang, you and I should form a QT. Since this is bastard, let's just ask the mod:

joth, can fang and I have a special QT?

[infangthief]

Bright, from what you've told us, the fortress currently has a capacity of at least 4, and there are 3 in it. Would you mind inviting scolapasta into it now?

[infangthief]

I don't believe fang is in a QT, that we know of.

I have a nice QT with joth thank you.

Fortress QT: Bright, Didds, Galzria, formerly pubby, day and night, Didds and Galzria joined early day 2
Snow White QT: Swowl, Didds, mathdude day and night, from start of game
Awaclus secret admirer 1: Awaclus, pubby, day 2
Awaclus secret admirer 2: Awaclus, Galzria, day 3 and night 3
Scum QT: probably?

[mathdude]

Bright, from what you've told us, the fortress currently has a capacity of at least 4, and there are 3 in it. Would you mind inviting scolapasta into it now?

You didn't like pasta's idea of the two of you getting a new, special QT?  Also, why do you want pasta in the fortress?  Are you two scum-buddies?

Scum QT: probably?

With all the QTs, it would actually be quite funny if scum didn't have their own.  Though I'm not sure how that would work, unless somehow there was just a single scum member.  Or maybe it's Awaclus, and his secret admirer each day is actually paired with him, whether or not they know it (though I guess pubby would have probably flipped scum yesterday then?)

[Swowl]

Vote: Fang

[jotheonah]

I just realized I forgot to tell you when the day ends. It ends in four IRL days, which is I guess Sunday at 5. You will get a vote count later this evening. Probably.

[mathdude]

Logic from within the Snow White QT:

There is possibly a scum within our QT, just purely based on probability at this point.  But from a townie perspective within our QT, we have to start by voting outside our QT (until we find scum outside it).  There are 4 cases:

Case 1 - no scum in our QT, strategy is nearly perfect, as we keep voting people not in our QT until we find scum... then we try to see who that person is connected to, and decide whether we vote within or outside still.

Case 2 - 1 scum in our QT, but strategy should still work well... if we started voting within, and pick the wrong person (from my perspective, 50% chance of this between Didds and Swowl but from outside our QT, you guys have 67% of picking wrong), then the remaining two gun for each other, and you still have a 50% chance (barring people's reads) of getting it right next! ... so by starting voting outside our QT, looking for (probably) 2 out of you 5, that's better than 33% chance of random 1 of us 3, then finding connections from there.

Case 3 - 2 scum in our QT, I think we've pretty much lost already! ... if Didds and Swowl are scum, I don't think we stand a chance, because I'm pretty sure Swowl has convinced me it makes sense to vote outside our QT (and then the odds would be abysmal), unless someone else can find a hole in this logic and change my mind.

Case 4 - all 3 of us are scum (sucks to be you all!) ... but I can assure you that this case cannot be true, unless I'm scum without knowing that I'm scum - I guess it's BM, so anything's possible.

[mathdude]

I just realized I forgot to tell you when the day ends. It ends in four IRL days, which is I guess Sunday at 5. You will get a vote count later this evening. Probably.

4 IRL days from start of day?  Or 4 IRL days from now?  If from now, then that's Monday at 5, not Sunday.

[infangthief]

Bright, from what you've told us, the fortress currently has a capacity of at least 4, and there are 3 in it. Would you mind inviting scolapasta into it now?

You didn't like pasta's idea of the two of you getting a new, special QT?  Also, why do you want pasta in the fortress?  Are you two scum-buddies?

No, just he said he was lonely and wanted to be in one.

[infangthief]

Here the biggest problem with Galz’s argument... if I am scum, then the fortress shouldn’t have held, right? I’m under the impression that Brighty lives because he has only included town. So, how do you get me from being the relay between qts to being scum knowing that?

Did you actually read Galz's argument?

[infangthief]

Here the biggest problem with Galz’s argument... if I am scum, then the fortress shouldn’t have held, right? I’m under the impression that Brighty lives because he has only included town. So, how do you get me from being the relay between qts to being scum knowing that?

Did you actually read Galz's argument?

Ah, ok, my bad. You are starting with Galz's argument after all.

The thing I want to know is whether you checked with the others in the fortress before sharing how the protection worked in your other QT. Did you?

[jotheonah]

you're right, I forgot faust was dead.

fang, you and I should form a QT. Since this is bastard, let's just ask the mod:

joth, can fang and I have a special QT?

I admire your moxie. But if I gave you a QT just for asking everyone would want one!

[scolapasta]

you're right, I forgot faust was dead.

fang, you and I should form a QT. Since this is bastard, let's just ask the mod:

joth, can fang and I have a special QT?

I admire your moxie. But if I gave you a QT just for asking everyone would want one!

EVERYONE ELSE ALREADY HAS ONE!

(but no worries, I didn't really expect it to work)

[jotheonah]

I just realized I forgot to tell you when the day ends. It ends in four IRL days, which is I guess Sunday at 5. You will get a vote count later this evening. Probably.

4 IRL days from start of day?  Or 4 IRL days from now?  If from now, then that's Monday at 5, not Sunday.

You're right. Monday at 5.

[WestCoastDidds]

you're right, I forgot faust was dead.

fang, you and I should form a QT. Since this is bastard, let's just ask the mod:

joth, can fang and I have a special QT?

That is awesome! I love the initiative!

[WestCoastDidds]

Here the biggest problem with Galz’s argument... if I am scum, then the fortress shouldn’t have held, right? I’m under the impression that Brighty lives because he has only included town. So, how do you get me from being the relay between qts to being scum knowing that?

Did you actually read Galz's argument?

Ah, ok, my bad. You are starting with Galz's argument after all.

The thing I want to know is whether you checked with the others in the fortress before sharing how the protection worked in your other QT. Did you?

I don’t think so...let me check. I did not. Actually rereading, I’m not talking much in the fortress except to ask the questions Swowl wants to know the answer to.

I’m pretty much ride or die with the 7 dwarves. I’ve told them everything from the beginning and as it’s happening.

[WestCoastDidds]

I feel so left out - am I the only one not in an QT?? (I think maybe fang or faust?)

Which is probably why i also am just unsure of anything.

SO to understand better what exactly does the fortress protect against? and how does it protect, i.e. it seems like those in the fortress were able to learn the fortress was attacked? But not who specifically or by whom, some sort of generic, "the fortress was attacked last night".

That is exactly right. Joth said at the start of the day that you have in quotes there

[scolapasta]

you're right, I forgot faust was dead.

fang, you and I should form a QT. Since this is bastard, let's just ask the mod:

joth, can fang and I have a special QT?

That is awesome! I love the initiative!

Meh, it didn't work though. Maybe if I ask for other stuff?

joth, can I have ONE MILLION DOLLARS?

[infangthief]

vote: Didds

[infangthief]

Vote: Fang

I think I understand where this vote comes from. Makes me feel a bit better about you Swowl, so long as it's genuine.