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[Awaclus]

It would help with confirming the loved/hated thing if pubby could say whether anything else happened to him that could have conceivably been the unknown part of my ability.

[faust]

I have a clarifying question about the fortress QT: Do the new people also see all prior posts? Because in that case there would already be 4 people aware of pubby's claim and we could just as well make it public.

[Awaclus]

I'm also aware of pubby's flavor claim.

[faust]

I'm also aware of pubby's flavor claim.

Seemed like Bright knew more than just flavor.

[Awaclus]

I'm also aware of pubby's flavor claim.

Seemed like Bright knew more than just flavor.

I don't.

[infangthief]

At #420, pubby explains his theory that the 7 dwarfs Neighbohood is actually the scum QT. This is a pretty ridiculous theory, but it's out there enough that i feel scum wouldn't come up with it.

Yes, it seems so awful that I've been assuming pubby had more reason for believing it than he's given so far.

@pubby could you answer my question at #571 please? Or I don't know, I suppose Brightgalrs you could probably answer too, as it seems you came up with the theory together.

[infangthief]

And while I'm referring back to my earlier questions, I think about 50% of the things I find scummy about Galzria at this point are summed up by my questions to him in #572 and #573.

[WestCoastDidds]

I have a clarifying question about the fortress QT: Do the new people also see all prior posts? Because in that case there would already be 4 people aware of pubby's claim and we could just as well make it public.

Goes all the way back. What information is it that we’re trying to verify?

[faust]

I have a clarifying question about the fortress QT: Do the new people also see all prior posts? Because in that case there would already be 4 people aware of pubby's claim and we could just as well make it public.

Goes all the way back. What information is it that we’re trying to verify?

This:

His roleclaim (which he claimed in QT) is also not what I would expect from pubby and was pretty vague.

[pubby]

@pubby could you answer my question at #571 please? Or I don't know, I suppose Brightgalrs you could probably answer too, as it seems you came up with the theory together.

Anyone in the fortress can invite anyone else. So it grows fast and can involve most of the players within a few days. But also Bright's entire claimed role is as the head of this fortress. Seemed like Bright's role is pretty mehhh if there are other neighborhoods already in the game, unless he's hiding a bigger role.

[pubby]

It would help with confirming the loved/hated thing if pubby could say whether anything else happened to him that could have conceivably been the unknown part of my ability.

I didn't receive any message last night besides your invite to the QT, which was mandatory. I don't know anything about why I'm now hated.

[mathdude]

Anyway, yes, it's crossed my mind.  I think it's possible - and it would be very clever to put distance between fellow scum-buddies.  However, I don't think it's likely, as there seemed to be no reason to instigate such a "problem" here.  By doing this, it likely gets one exiled, and the other gets town-cred.  But trying to ride the day without getting one of your own exiled seems much more likely unless one starts coming under fire for something else first. 

Four scenarios:
1) Bright is scum, pubby is not - I think this is possible.
2) pubby is scum, Bright is not - I think this is likely.
3) They are both scum - I think this is possible, but not likely.
4) Neither is scum - also possible.

I'm inclined to say the best strategy is to pick of them to exile today.  If it's scenario 1, 2, or 3, we could hit scum tonight.  If 1 or 2, and we get lucky or a good read, I think this is best case.  We move on tomorrow based on where else things lead.  If it's 1 or 2 and we pick wrong today, then we hope for a Vig kill tonight or we exile the other tomorrow.  If it's 3 and we move elsewhere tomorrow, there's still a chance we could realize this before the game ends.  But this is why it could have been a good power move by them to plan for longevity in the game for one of them.  If it's 4, then we could be in trouble, especially if we spend 2 kills on them.

After working through this logic, I'm going to throw out my vote today and see what other discussion ensues.

Vote: pubby

How is this even logic? All you have done here, as far as I can see, is started with the assumption of "pubby is likely scum" and ended with the conclusion that pubby is likely scum. Everything between that is just a big blob of nothing.

I started with what I'm assuming - it looks to me like pubby is scum.  Then I run through my logic, that went into and out of my head, and arrive at the conclusion, so you can all see what I'm thinking, rather than blindly posting a vote (like some people seem to think is acceptable logic).  Would you rather I just do that?

I believe it's much more likely that one of pubby/Bright is scum, as opposed to both or neither.  I've said already, but if both, then I don't think it would have been wise to bring up something that's likely to get one of them exiled.  As for whether it could be neither - we don't have many other reads going here for D2, and it's been said pubby and Bright both know each other well, so if one is scum-reading the other, I'm inclined to at least go along for a bit and see where it leads.  Also, with people like faust jumping in to defend pubby, it makes me wonder if they're in it together.  The problem is, I don't know which one it is.  There are scum-reasons for both pubby and Bright, but there are also town-reasons for both.

[faust]

I believe it's much more likely that one of pubby/Bright is scum, as opposed to both or neither.

But why do you believe that?

[faust]

Oh I see, you're basically renouncing any responsibility for that read by saying that you'e just following their scumreads. Great.

I'm not sure pubby is actually scumreading Bright. Is that the case?

[scolapasta]

I believe it's much more likely that one of pubby/Bright is scum, as opposed to both or neither.

But why do you believe that?

He does answer that in the next sentence, no? You may not agree with his reasons, but he did put it out there.

[scolapasta]

I believe it's much more likely that one of pubby/Bright is scum, as opposed to both or neither.

But why do you believe that?

He does answer that in the next sentence, no? You may not agree with his reasons, but he did put it out there.

OK, maybe not next sentence, but the rest of the paragraph.

[faust]

I believe it's much more likely that one of pubby/Bright is scum, as opposed to both or neither.

But why do you believe that?

He does answer that in the next sentence, no? You may not agree with his reasons, but he did put it out there.

OK, maybe not next sentence, but the rest of the paragraph.

yes, and I addressed that reasoning in my follow-up post.

[scolapasta]

I believe it's much more likely that one of pubby/Bright is scum, as opposed to both or neither.

But why do you believe that?

He does answer that in the next sentence, no? You may not agree with his reasons, but he did put it out there.

OK, maybe not next sentence, but the rest of the paragraph.

yes, and I addressed that reasoning in my follow-up post.

You did, sorry. I must have just clicked through the PPE on auto pilot.

[Awaclus]

I started with what I'm assuming - it looks to me like pubby is scum.  Then I run through my logic, that went into and out of my head, and arrive at the conclusion, so you can all see what I'm thinking, rather than blindly posting a vote (like some people seem to think is acceptable logic).  Would you rather I just do that?

Yes, actually. It's harder for scum to defend against accusations when they don't know what the accusations are.

[mathdude]

Oh I see, you're basically renouncing any responsibility for that read by saying that you'e just following their scumreads. Great.

I'm not sure pubby is actually scumreading Bright. Is that the case?

I've said why I believe 1 is more likely than both.

As for why 1 more likely than 0, I'm guessing. It sounds bad, but yes. I have nothing better. It's at least something to go on, and definitely get future reads based on these polarizing opinions.

Let's assume we flip pubby. If he's scum, you will be a possible target tomorrow. If he's town, it will be between me and Bright tomorrow, most likely. There's similar logic if we flip Bright today. So unless someone has a better lead, I'll keep pushing here.

PPE 1

[WestCoastDidds]

I have a clarifying question about the fortress QT: Do the new people also see all prior posts? Because in that case there would already be 4 people aware of pubby's claim and we could just as well make it public.

Goes all the way back. What information is it that we’re trying to verify?

This:

His roleclaim (which he claimed in QT) is also not what I would expect from pubby and was pretty vague.

Pubbys claim is very hazy. I actually have no idea what it means. You can try to decipher it:

If we exile scum, he throws a parade.

[Awaclus]

Eh. That's actually a pretty towny claim.

Let's try vote: Brightgalrs instead.

[scolapasta]

Eh. That's actually a pretty towny claim.

How so?

[Awaclus]

Eh. That's actually a pretty towny claim.

How so?

1) It's very consistent with his flavor claim, which, as mentioned before, I know
2) It doesn't make sense for scum to have that ability
3) It doesn't sound like he made it up, and if he did, we will find out as soon as we exile scum and no parade gets thrown

[mathdude]

I started with what I'm assuming - it looks to me like pubby is scum.  Then I run through my logic, that went into and out of my head, and arrive at the conclusion, so you can all see what I'm thinking, rather than blindly posting a vote (like some people seem to think is acceptable logic).  Would you rather I just do that?

Yes, actually. It's harder for scum to defend against accusations when they don't know what the accusations are.

That's a decent counterpoint. But I think we'll still have to agree to disagree. Responding to a blank vote will be more inclined to show meta than alignment. Some people freeze whether town or scum. Others have no problem responding either way.

I think it's also easy for scum to hide behind a blind vote, since there's almost no accountability and definitely no follow-up. Actually discussing leads, opinions, scum-reads gives us more to reference later to find who is who.