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[faust]

Can flavor claims really matter? If they can, it should be beneficial to say how many people are in that neighborhood so that we know when all the 7dwarfs in the game have been claimed (assuming all of them are in the neighborhood, which is probably a reasonable assumption).

They can matter to the extent that flavor will probably be related to role powers. So Didds being Doc... well, you get the idea.

I think it would be beneficial to learn the names of all of the 7 dwarfs.

[faust]

I would also like a full claim from Didds.

[Awaclus]

I think it would be beneficial to learn the names of all of the 7 dwarfs.

They're Doc, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, Bashful, Sneezy and Dopey.



But in all seriousness, why would that be beneficial? We would have a better idea what kinds of abilities might exist in the game, but scum would too and that info is probably more useful to scum. I don't think knowing the exact names helps prevent fake claims substantially more than just knowing the number does.

[Awaclus]

On the other hand, I guess it's possible and not super unlikely that scum is already in the neighborhood and therefore knows the names anyway. It might be beneficial after all.

[pubby]

I'm in a neighborhood too but we only have daychat. It's unrelated to my role - I was invited in the middle of D1 by another player.

[mathdude]

Jimmmmm has not been prodded. Please do not abuse the prod function.

I was not trying to abuse the prod function.

The Rules:
The Rest:
6. Players may request prods on other players if they have not posted in 24 hours. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.

You could get a cat. Cats are awesome.

But I've never liked pickles.

Requesting:
prod: Jimmmmm
(Doing just one to test).

As far as I can see, it was more than 48 hours from Jimmmm's previous post to my prod request.  Then he posted a few hours after my request (before the vote count):

Vote: WCD

Here's the logic:

- Didds seems the most likely to pick a happy Disney dwarf or Smurf
- Joth seems the most likely to make the happiest dwarf the most evil dwarf
- Therefore Didds is evil

QED

Bad logic is bad. Vote: WCD

Did I miss something?

[WestCoastDidds]

Can flavor claims really matter? If they can, it should be beneficial to say how many people are in that neighborhood so that we know when all the 7dwarfs in the game have been claimed (assuming all of them are in the neighborhood, which is probably a reasonable assumption).

They can matter to the extent that flavor will probably be related to role powers. So Didds being Doc... well, you get the idea.

I think it would be beneficial to learn the names of all of the 7 dwarfs.

They can tell you if they want it to be known

The flavor names definitely have something to do with our abilities, as far as I can tell

[faust]

But in all seriousness, why would that be beneficial? We would have a better idea what kinds of abilities might exist in the game, but scum would too and that info is probably more useful to scum. I don't think knowing the exact names helps prevent fake claims substantially more than just knowing the number does.

Well, I find it unlikely that all the dwarfs are town, so chances are scum already knows.

[faust]

On the other hand, I guess it's possible and not super unlikely that scum is already in the neighborhood and therefore knows the names anyway. It might be beneficial after all.

Ah yeah. Ha.

[Awaclus]

They can tell you if they want it to be known

The flavor names definitely have something to do with our abilities, as far as I can tell

I think the point is to reveal the flavor names without revealing what players they map to.

[scolapasta]

What if they're all scum and it's just the scum QT?!?

[infangthief]

I think it would be beneficial to learn the names of all of the 7 dwarfs.

They're Doc, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, Bashful, Sneezy and Dopey.



But in all seriousness,

In all seriousness, that's what I assumed faust meant. Now I am unclear what he means.

[mathdude]

Looking back now that I'm on laptop (instead of phone) to some posts I've skipped over while on phone.

There is no way to prove I’m town short of me finding and exiling scum, so you seem to be holding me to some standard I can’t achieve.

If you say so.

Shall we vote for Galzria then? I will if you will.

I'm happy leaving my vote on Didds at this point, but this interaction between fang and Didds is starting to catch my attention (I think I've got a couple more quotes from them coming up).

I 100% think there is scum on my wagon. So, any of those folks are good choices. I’m not so sure about Galzy. Usually when he’s scum he gets kind of aggro toward someone, but he has not been as been as aggro as you have. So, I’m not quite sure why you want to work together.

I don't think you can ever be 100% sure unless you're scum yourself (unless you have some sort of special power).

Voting for Galzria is a great idea, a lot of super towny people such as myself are already doing it.

Toot my own horn again... this is starting to look normal coming from Awaclus, but it still seems odd to me that you need to keep "reminding" us that you're Town.

@Didds, re aggro. Yes. I try not to be aggro, but I like being direct and when I do so it seems to end up coming across more aggressive than I mean. Sorry! I'll try and work on my peaceful directness (the opposite of passive aggression?)

You have much more experience of Galzria's mafia style than me, so it's good to have your opinion on that.

What do you think about pubby? I don't think I've even read a game that they were in.

Curious why fang is just taking Didds' word on Galz.  Wouldn't it make more sense to be skeptical?  Only scum knows who's who, so they don't need to question information.

I 100% think there is scum on my wagon.

Why?

Because I know I’m a townie, and 4 players is a third of the pool. So, odds are good there is scum there.

Of course, but the odds are not 100%.

True enough. So the odds are not 100%, but I still 100% think there is scum aboard my train

Back to the 100%.  Is this normal for Didds?

How many scum do we expect?  I get it's BM, so it could be anything.  Maybe there's 1, or maybe half (with some really weird roles/interactions/restrictions)?  Ordinarily, are we expecting 2 or 3 with 12 players?

I mean, we could run the numbers, but they don't mean much yet until someone flips.  I could show probabilities, from the global perspective, or from my perspective knowing I'm Town.  I could assume 2 or 3 scum (or any other number).  And we could work out the chances there's scum there.  But they're just numbers and everything/anything is possible.

Vote: WCD

Here's the logic:

- Didds seems the most likely to pick a happy Disney dwarf or Smurf
- Joth seems the most likely to make the happiest dwarf the most evil dwarf
- Therefore Didds is evil

QED

Bad logic is bad. Vote: WCD

And back to Jimmmmm and nonsense posts.  Bad logic would mean voting for pubby, wouldn't it?  Agreeing with pubby would mean voting for Didds.

Yeah. That wagon is ridiculous.

Unvote

I still think you’re a Bad Dwarf (you made a post earlier that, to me, suggested you knew I was a Good Dwarf)... but math & fang are definitely in the scummiest spots on WCD’s wagon. Since it’s known Math won’t be exiled D1:

Vote: Fang

If you still think they are a Bad Dwarf, why move your vote?

Good to have you back. I'll go and look at that scola-Galzria exchange again.

What do you think about Didds?

I think there’s a 99% chance she chose Happy, and about a 10% chance Happy is a Bad Dwarf.

I think her wagon has gotten piled on because wagons are fun, and it’s a BM game so nobody cares quite that much. It definitely has a Bad Dwarf or two on it, but is probably largely a town wagon.

I think Fang & Math are the scummiest two on the wagon, followed by faust, then Jimmmmm, then pubby - in that order (Awaclus would fit between faust & Jimmmmm).

So by saying 10% chance Happy is Bad... are you claiming to know what types of Dwarves (or Dwarfs?) are Bad - back to the idea much earlier that we pick out which types of Dwarf could be Bad, then we all flavour-claim?  I think it's quite likely many of our flavour-roles will be known at some point in the game, and I doubt it would be that easy to pick off scum from that.  Just my personal opinion, but that doesn't seem to fit my understanding of BM.

(more thoughts coming... I just don't want to make this any longer than it is)...

[infangthief]

As far as I can see, it was more than 48 hours from Jimmmm's previous post to my prod request.  Then he posted a few hours after my request (before the vote count):

<snip>

Did I miss something?

My math agrees with your math dude.

Presumably Joth did not see your prod request until after Jimmmmm had already posted, so fair enough for him not to be prodded I suppose, but I think your request was entirely valid at the time you made it. On the other hand, this being BM, the normal prohibition on use of time machines might not apply...

I have a feeling there were various other prodables around that time also, but haven't checked. Galzria, maybe pubby.

@Jimmmmm, were you following along anyway and then decided to post because you read mathdude's prod request?

PPE: 1

[WestCoastDidds]

A good to know item... Jimmmmm is in Australia so his posting times tend to be radically different than the Euro/US/Canada crowd.

[infangthief]

@Didds, re aggro. Yes. I try not to be aggro, but I like being direct and when I do so it seems to end up coming across more aggressive than I mean. Sorry! I'll try and work on my peaceful directness (the opposite of passive aggression?)

You have much more experience of Galzria's mafia style than me, so it's good to have your opinion on that.

What do you think about pubby? I don't think I've even read a game that they were in.

Curious why fang is just taking Didds' word on Galz.  Wouldn't it make more sense to be skeptical?  Only scum knows who's who, so they don't need to question information.

If Didds is town, it is good to have Didds' opinion on Galzria.
If Didds is scum, it is even better to have Didds' opinion on Galzria.

PPE: 1

[mathdude]

On the other hand, I guess it's possible and not super unlikely that scum is already in the neighborhood and therefore knows the names anyway. It might be beneficial after all.

But in all seriousness, why would that be beneficial? We would have a better idea what kinds of abilities might exist in the game, but scum would too and that info is probably more useful to scum. I don't think knowing the exact names helps prevent fake claims substantially more than just knowing the number does.

Well, I find it unlikely that all the dwarfs are town, so chances are scum already knows.

I ran some quick numbers, from the global perspective (not my own perspective).  12 players.  3 in the neighbourhood.  If 2 scum, I think there was about a 60% chance that 3 can all be Town (10 choose 2 divided by 12 choose 2).  If 3 scum, that drops to about 30% chance that they're all Town.

What if they're all scum and it's just the scum QT?!?

I get that this is BM, but that seems too obvious to me.  Let's say there are 3 scum.  If we flip Didds and find scum, then we assume all 3 of Snow White's dwarves are scum.  If a 2nd flips scum later, then we know it's probably true.  Also... why would Didds have offered that information if it was the scum QT?

[mathdude]

As far as I can see, it was more than 48 hours from Jimmmm's previous post to my prod request.  Then he posted a few hours after my request (before the vote count):

<snip>

Did I miss something?

My math agrees with your math dude.

Presumably Joth did not see your prod request until after Jimmmmm had already posted, so fair enough for him not to be prodded I suppose, but I think your request was entirely valid at the time you made it. On the other hand, this being BM, the normal prohibition on use of time machines might not apply...

I have a feeling there were various other prodables around that time also, but haven't checked. Galzria, maybe pubby.

@Jimmmmm, were you following along anyway and then decided to post because you read mathdude's prod request?

PPE: 1

Jimmmmm posted between my prod request and Joth's vote count.  But EFHW had done the same thing (posting between prod request and vote count where Joth confirmed that EFHW was prodded).  So I don't get it.

@Didds, re aggro. Yes. I try not to be aggro, but I like being direct and when I do so it seems to end up coming across more aggressive than I mean. Sorry! I'll try and work on my peaceful directness (the opposite of passive aggression?)

You have much more experience of Galzria's mafia style than me, so it's good to have your opinion on that.

What do you think about pubby? I don't think I've even read a game that they were in.

Curious why fang is just taking Didds' word on Galz.  Wouldn't it make more sense to be skeptical?  Only scum knows who's who, so they don't need to question information.

If Didds is town, it is good to have Didds' opinion on Galzria.
If Didds is scum, it is even better to have Didds' opinion on Galzria.

PPE: 1

I guess fair enough.  You didn't say you agreed with the assessment - just that it was good to have it.

I think we have about a day left to decide?  I like my vote, but I'm leery of the wagon.  For now, I'll

Unvote

so we have more time to discuss before a quickhammer.

Though I'm quite likely to come back to it unless something else draws my attention more.  Right now, Jimmmm or Didds are where my vote could go.

[Awaclus]

Toot my own horn again... this is starting to look normal coming from Awaclus, but it still seems odd to me that you need to keep "reminding" us that you're Town.

It's supposed to be funny.

[Galzria]

pubby (1): Brightgalrs
EFHW (1):

Ok so EFHW just has a standing vote. The question is when did that happen
The first vote count went like this:

MiX (1): Galzria
Joth (1): WestCoastDidds
Galzria (1): Awaclus
faust (1): mathdude
Awaclus (1): infangthief
Brightgalrs (1): Jimmmmm

So the extra vote was applied between the first and second count, meaning it was a day action that someone activated. And that timeframe was when both I and WestCoastDidds voted for EFHW. Something fishy there. Or... is this some extended rule I don't know about? like where being prodded makes you easier to exile for the rest of the day?

Still need to read the rest of the thread.

MiX is likely the hidden voter on EFHW. Votes in his QT. Doesn’t show up in game because he’s “Not Playing”.

[Galzria]

MiX is probably Ukifune Jinnai: The Dwarf Toilet Ninja, if I had to guess!

[Swowl]

MiX is probably Ukifune Jinnai: The Dwarf Toilet Ninja, if I had to guess!

Swowl stands from his seat, throws his glass against the floor and exclaims, “you’re a dwarf toilet ninja!”.

[Galzria]

Also, early DAMA. I’m a swirl in, which is like 2 cocktails - about to go make a cocktail, drink a beer, and watch the Giant’s game. After which I’ll be going over XxxRaptor’s house to celebrate his birthday (yay for all vaccinated gang!), where I’ve pre prepared Clarified Paper Plane cocktails ... so as long as I’m checking my phone - DAMA for the rest of the night!

[Swowl]

Also, early DAMA. I’m a swirl in, which is like 2 cocktails - about to go make a cocktail, drink a beer, and watch the Giant’s game. After which I’ll be going over XxxRaptor’s house to celebrate his birthday (yay for all vaccinated gang!), where I’ve pre prepared Clarified Paper Plane cocktails ... so as long as I’m checking my phone - DAMA for the rest of the night!

Swowl walks out the door with Galz.

[infangthief]

Didds count

Galzria (2):, scolapasta, Awaclus
WestCoastDidds (5): pubby, faust, mathdude, infangthief, Jimmmm
scolapasta (1): Galzria
Jimmmm (3): Swowl, WCD, EFHW
Pubby (1): brightgairs

How the heck is Didds at 5 votes here?!?

Yeah. That wagon is ridiculous.

Unvote

I still think you’re a Bad Dwarf (you made a post earlier that, to me, suggested you knew I was a Good Dwarf)... but math & fang are definitely in the scummiest spots on WCD’s wagon. Since it’s known Math won’t be exiled D1:

Vote: Fang

Good to have you back. I'll go and look at that scola-Galzria exchange again.

What do you think about Didds?

I've gone and had a look.

vote: Galzria

Can point me to exactly which post you were referring to?