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[ashersky]

I was in a QT with ADK, Swowl, and LaLight. ADK didn’t convince me, though; Swowl did. And when I saw his flip, I was sold.

Fairly sure the bolded is a lie.  Like, 93% sure.

[ashersky]

Well, enough people have acknowledged their existence.

I learned that there's at least 1 cylon-aligned player in the jack wagon. Which is why I'm voting scola and not jack.

Why not WCD?

[ashersky]

So, if I understand this correctly, either you only detect cylon-aligned people's actions (which isn't what you've said up till now, but would explain why you seem to be implying that Swowl being human-aligned makes a difference), or you really do detect all Cylon-species actions (including actions taken by human-aligned cylons), but then still have some unexplained actions around Swowl's targeting.

I would also like a better explanation of LL's claim, as I'm confused.

[ashersky]

Man, a lot to catch up on! And on my busiest meeting day, so while I read everything, I won't have time to process until later tonight.

But ADK and WCD both voting for the jury without ANY DISCUSSION? That as to be one of the more anti town things I've seen.

I can 1/2 understand ADK, being VP, maybe??

But there is NO reason for WCD to vote there so early that is defensible.

Vote: WCD

I'll have to further process to see if I think that's actually the best place for my vote, but it's early in the day, no other votes, so I at least need this to be a sign how upset I am at this...

You can be mad, and I get it. To my mind this was all about rectifying what happened yesterday and ALL of the military being deprived of a vote. It's not scummy. It wasn't ill considered.  I don't see any reason to let scum have any sway in my decision about MiX, nor do I think I need to justify anything to scum.  And the sooner I cast my vote, the sooner we could get on with the day.

As Space pointed out, you literally saved the player who disenfranchised the military.  So your logic does not track.

Also, the military being unable to vote has no impact on the alignment of the player who was exiled.  Why can't the civilians get it right?

Who says we couldn't get on with our day concurrently with the jury making up its mind?  The opening day post has a regular vote count in it.  I assume we could have just played the day and had the jury decide on MiX at any time.  There may have been tons of advantageous information gains to be had through faking one decision or the other, forcing information out of MiX in exchange for not guilty votes, etc. etc. etc.  There were literally so many possibilities to this.  I'm guessing faust may have even thought of some of them when including this mechanic.

Instead, you anti-town-edly just destroyed any chance we had of using this mechanic for any gain.

[ashersky]

Well, enough people have acknowledged their existence.

I learned that there's at least 1 cylon-aligned player in the jack wagon. Which is why I'm voting scola and not jack.

Is this information good? Not really. Does anyone have anything better? Well, maybe Awaclus or Swowl did.

Also, my executive orders are Curfew, Presidential Pardon and Isolate Colonial One. I'm tempted to pick Isolate Colonial One so I don't die.

I believe Curfew is the only pro-town option out of those three.  The other two are strictly Pro-MiX.

[LaLight]

I don't get why my power is so confusing, this looks clear to me. I didn't see the "blocking" action. this means that no Cylons used a blocking action on me. This means that either:

- DatSwan didn't use an action on me
- DatSwan is not a Cylon

I don't think he would lie about using an action, therefore he's not a Cylon.

This is it

[LaLight]

well, also he might've been roleblocked, I guess

[LaLight]

i see the kinds of power Cylons used on me. this is literally my power.

Yes, I am in neighbourhood with Didds and I don't know why this should mean I have to townread her or be scum. No one claimed practically anything in this neighbourhood instead of me.

[LaLight]

I do not have any other powers, y'all know literally everything I know.

[Dylan32]

You can be mad, and I get it. To my mind this was all about rectifying what happened yesterday and ALL of the military being deprived of a vote. It's not scummy. It wasn't ill considered.  I don't see any reason to let scum have any sway in my decision about MiX, nor do I think I need to justify anything to scum.  And the sooner I cast my vote, the sooner we could get on with the day.

To be fair, the person you voted to acquit was exactly the same person who disenfranchised somewhere upwards of half the players in the game, so that's not exactly justice.

My vote on Jack was not reflective of whom I think is most likely to be scum, but of what the available choices were at the EoD and looking for information by joining a wagon and seeing reactions. I knew I was military and that my vote didn't count anyway, and so I voted accordingly. Having that vote used as part of the justification for clearing MiX is just kind of frustrating.

I do think you and ADK voting so quickly was very surprising. I would have expect that if you're a townies who presumably doesn't have any extra external information, then canvassing opinion and waiting for night information on MiX would have been the most sensible way forward. So I think either you're already sitting on information you're not telling us (either relating to MiX, to some personal goal, or to something I haven't even thought of) or I agree that it feels really suspicious that you didn't want to see what other info is out there before casting a deciding vote after an alleged non-townie had already voted that way.

This was exactly my reaction to that post. And I pretty well agree with the rest of it.


I also think, unless I missed some other information somewhere, LL's claim has been pretty consistent (and consistently misunderstood [or twisted intentionally I guess] by people). This makes me feel pretty good about LL being town.

[ashersky]

I don't get why my power is so confusing, this looks clear to me. I didn't see the "blocking" action. this means that no Cylons used a blocking action on me. This means that either:

- DatSwan didn't use an action on me
- DatSwan is not a Cylon

I don't think he would lie about using an action, therefore he's not a Cylon.

This is it

To confirm just my understanding, we see Swowl had a "blocking, protective" action, and that was a jailkeep according to Swowl claiming to you?

And you did not see a blocking, protective action target you the night that Swowl targeted you, so if Swowl was successful in jailkeeping you, Swowl would need to be a non-cylon.

Is your thing passive or active?  I wonder if being jailkept would have blocked it from working.

[LaLight]

I also think, unless I missed some other information somewhere, LL's claim has been pretty consistent (and consistently misunderstood [or twisted intentionally I guess] by people). This makes me feel pretty good about LL being town.

yes! thank you!

[LaLight]

I don't get why my power is so confusing, this looks clear to me. I didn't see the "blocking" action. this means that no Cylons used a blocking action on me. This means that either:

- DatSwan didn't use an action on me
- DatSwan is not a Cylon

I don't think he would lie about using an action, therefore he's not a Cylon.

This is it

To confirm just my understanding, we see Swowl had a "blocking, protective" action, and that was a jailkeep according to Swowl claiming to you?

And you did not see a blocking, protective action target you the night that Swowl targeted you, so if Swowl was successful in jailkeeping you, Swowl would need to be a non-cylon.

Is your thing passive or active?  I wonder if being jailkept would have blocked it from working.

passive and yes, exactly other than he didn't claim he was a jailkeeper i just deduced this from blocking/protective, what other role would that be

[ashersky]

What exactly did you see that night?

[LaLight]

What exactly did you see that night?

killing and protective

[scolapasta]

Right, so where did the protective come from? There's some other Cylon doctor type out there? (and with Human swowl, you were doubly protected?)

(plus who tried to kill you? If it were scum, then who incapacitated Awaclus?)

[scolapasta]

I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

Yeah, I've been considering that too (complete with the speculation about the jury-of-peers thing being part of the role), but I feel like him outright saying that he wants to be alive at the end is too close to his actual role to be a fake-claim that would stand any chance of throwing us off his tracks, if that's what we think it might be. I  do agree that MiX has been kind of broadcasting 3rd party vibes for quite a while, though.

@MiX, how early in this game did you learn that ADK was third-party?

@ADK, are you going to openly confirm your status, or do you claim that MiX is lying?

Actually one more piece that doesn't quite add up: Mix claimed his two powers were getting random factoids and running the Cylon test. But the cylon test didn't exist until the 2nd day. So at the start of the game, Mix's role in an RMM would be town with a simple passive power and that's it.

However, if we consider Survivor MiX, then a 2nd passive (but big) power, being able to possibly escape a brigging, plus an alternative win condition? That sounds much more like an RMM to me.

And I could imagine that gaining the Cylon testing machine power wasn't a character power, but an artifact of his being president at the start of D2. Maybe it's a President / VP thing?

(would that it had been a President / Fleet Admiral thing, but I can say it's not me who has the test power).

OR maybe it's just the President, and it works completely differently, but MiX leading us to believe it's a 2 person thing, would allow him to steer our understanding of the results in a way that favors his survival.

[LaLight]

Right, so where did the protective come from? There's some other Cylon doctor type out there? (and with Human swowl, you were doubly protected?)

(plus who tried to kill you? If it were scum, then who incapacitated Awaclus?)

These are all amazing questions

[SpaceAnemone]

Bolded and upsized something with which I strongly disagree.

The way I'm reading things with WCD, she was persuaded by the Swowl-ADK axis in the viper pilot QT, and then came into the thread thinking that she could pass her pre-decided vote off as un-suspicious by giving those excuses, when in fact it looked super-dodgy. At least, the fact that the viper pilot QT story is backed by other players makes me believe that over the first bits of twisted truths WCD gave the thread after her vote.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

What do you think of the cases where information doesn't add up, though? Do they make you at least a bit suspicious of the people making those claims?

Which claims don't add up?

Swowl flipped as a character who's a cylon in BSG, and had openly said he believed himself to be a Cylon. Then LL says he can detect cylon targets, but the two claims about what precisely targeted LL don't match up. That, plus LL's power wasn't originally described as having evolved from N1 onwards, but the claim was later partially retconned so that on D1 he only knew he'd been targeted by a cylon, but later on he got to know the action type.

I think it's plausible that LL has been lying, or at least only partially reporting something about his role that suits some personal agenda. Otherwise we have a human-species cylon character, and simultaneously we have rather too many unexplained NK actions on the night that LL claims he was targeted by a cylon and then also Awaclus was incapacitated.

[LaLight]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

What do you think of the cases where information doesn't add up, though? Do they make you at least a bit suspicious of the people making those claims?

Which claims don't add up?

Swowl flipped as a character who's a cylon in BSG, and had openly said he believed himself to be a Cylon. Then LL says he can detect cylon targets, but the two claims about what precisely targeted LL don't match up. That, plus LL's power wasn't originally described as having evolved from N1 onwards, but the claim was later partially retconned so that on D1 he only knew he'd been targeted by a cylon, but later on he got to know the action type.

I think it's plausible that LL has been lying, or at least only partially reporting something about his role that suits some personal agenda. Otherwise we have a human-species cylon character, and simultaneously we have rather too many unexplained NK actions on the night that LL claims he was targeted by a cylon and then also Awaclus was incapacitated.

I believed I already claimed that originally I only got to know if I was targeted by a Cylon or not, but I also could separate myself from you all on D2 (which I did) that let my power to evolve. I didn't know how it would evolve, and I even asked in Viper QT if I should separate myself and most of the people told I should and I did and here we are

[LaLight]

my personal agenda is as well claimed by me, I literally have nothing else to claim that I already did, except what happened in VP QT, that really wasn't that informative. For instance on one night everyone was asking me questions about my role and I said how about you tell me and then everyone refused and the night ended.

[LaLight]

how about a massclaim?

[MiX]

I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

Yeah, I've been considering that too (complete with the speculation about the jury-of-peers thing being part of the role), but I feel like him outright saying that he wants to be alive at the end is too close to his actual role to be a fake-claim that would stand any chance of throwing us off his tracks, if that's what we think it might be. I  do agree that MiX has been kind of broadcasting 3rd party vibes for quite a while, though.

@MiX, how early in this game did you learn that ADK was third-party?

@ADK, are you going to openly confirm your status, or do you claim that MiX is lying?

Actually one more piece that doesn't quite add up: Mix claimed his two powers were getting random factoids and running the Cylon test. But the cylon test didn't exist until the 2nd day. So at the start of the game, Mix's role in an RMM would be town with a simple passive power and that's it.

However, if we consider Survivor MiX, then a 2nd passive (but big) power, being able to possibly escape a brigging, plus an alternative win condition? That sounds much more like an RMM to me.

And I could imagine that gaining the Cylon testing machine power wasn't a character power, but an artifact of his being president at the start of D2. Maybe it's a President / VP thing?

(would that it had been a President / Fleet Admiral thing, but I can say it's not me who has the test power).

OR maybe it's just the President, and it works completely differently, but MiX leading us to believe it's a 2 person thing, would allow him to steer our understanding of the results in a way that favors his survival.

I can explain this: I had the ability to choose "human" or "cylon" N1 for the cylon testing machine, but I didn't know what it meant. I only learned D2 how the machine works (that is, how it's influenced by my decision at night).

how about a massclaim?

I agree with this.

Can you restate your other power? The one that isn't watcher on yourself.

[LaLight]

I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

Yeah, I've been considering that too (complete with the speculation about the jury-of-peers thing being part of the role), but I feel like him outright saying that he wants to be alive at the end is too close to his actual role to be a fake-claim that would stand any chance of throwing us off his tracks, if that's what we think it might be. I  do agree that MiX has been kind of broadcasting 3rd party vibes for quite a while, though.

@MiX, how early in this game did you learn that ADK was third-party?

@ADK, are you going to openly confirm your status, or do you claim that MiX is lying?

Actually one more piece that doesn't quite add up: Mix claimed his two powers were getting random factoids and running the Cylon test. But the cylon test didn't exist until the 2nd day. So at the start of the game, Mix's role in an RMM would be town with a simple passive power and that's it.

However, if we consider Survivor MiX, then a 2nd passive (but big) power, being able to possibly escape a brigging, plus an alternative win condition? That sounds much more like an RMM to me.

And I could imagine that gaining the Cylon testing machine power wasn't a character power, but an artifact of his being president at the start of D2. Maybe it's a President / VP thing?

(would that it had been a President / Fleet Admiral thing, but I can say it's not me who has the test power).

OR maybe it's just the President, and it works completely differently, but MiX leading us to believe it's a 2 person thing, would allow him to steer our understanding of the results in a way that favors his survival.

I can explain this: I had the ability to choose "human" or "cylon" N1 for the cylon testing machine, but I didn't know what it meant. I only learned D2 how the machine works (that is, how it's influenced by my decision at night).

how about a massclaim?

I agree with this.

Can you restate your other power? The one that isn't watcher on yourself.

my other what? did you guys have more than one power?