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[MiX]

Well, enough people have acknowledged their existence.

I learned that there's at least 1 cylon-aligned player in the jack wagon. Which is why I'm voting scola and not jack.

Is this information good? Not really. Does anyone have anything better? Well, maybe Awaclus or Swowl did.

Also, my executive orders are Curfew, Presidential Pardon and Isolate Colonial One. I'm tempted to pick Isolate Colonial One so I don't die.

[MiX]

I think having had almost no one die this entire game is making it pretty tough.

Think about it this way: it's basically D2 of a regular game with a misexile and an extra NK, and we have 2 more nights of info, in theory.

Can you promise you'll play the game this day?

[Jack Rudd]

Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

Vote: Robz so that if he doesn't, it won't matter.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, some of the stuff Swowl and I talked about still contradicted what LL had claimed, if LL is assuming that Swowl was the person whose targeting he'd detected on N2, so that's another thing to puzzle out now we've seen Swowl's flip.

goodness, Swowl was human, I didn't detect a "blocking" action because I only detect Cylon's actions.

Swowl was human-aligned (flipped green), but the character he was playing was most likely a cylon in terms of species. Swowl said in-thread that he'd begun to suspect he was a cylon, and he said a little more in the QT I had with him.

Also, Boomer is definitely a cylon in the series, in that she's one of the two model 8 cylons who're part of the main story arc. (The other is Athena, who's the cylon that gets involved with Helo).

So, if I understand this correctly, either you only detect cylon-aligned people's actions (which isn't what you've said up till now, but would explain why you seem to be implying that Swowl being human-aligned makes a difference), or you really do detect all Cylon-species actions (including actions taken by human-aligned cylons), but then still have some unexplained actions around Swowl's targeting.

[scolapasta]

OK! Work meetings over, time to try to respond to some things / ask some questions:

My first power is that I learn random (although it says it depends on the current game state) things passively, I learned that a human aligned can turn cylon aligned (which confirms Awaclus' story) , and I learned what the turning point for military being president without losing their powers is (they lose the order deck and gain day powers, this will be public information once it happens, so I don't think it's relevant. I'll say it if you ask for it though.)

Consider me asking... I'd guess it's actually more relevant than your telling us, since my going assumption was that ADK didn't want to be president to avoid this turning point. But it doesn't actually sound that bad from their perspective...

And ADK already claimed non-town.

Did I miss this claim? All I saw was MiX claiming ADK was 3rd party.

I had a QT with Swowl last night, for unknown reasons.

With Swowl incapacitated, of course, it's possible this is a bluff. Especially since ash claims that ADK and WCD had a QT last night. (but why bluff this AFTER he said that, so I'm prone to believe it).

So I'm more inclined that these nightly QTs are someone's power to grant. Anyone want to fess up? And similarly I wonder if there was any N2 QT?

The majority of people in this game wanted to exile Jack Rudd.  Two civilians wanted to exile MiX.  My vote only makes sense.

I don't follow this logic at all. Why does your vote have anything to follow from yesterday's vote? Besides, the most troubling aspect wasn't the vote itself (I was inclined to vote not guilty before not being selected for the jury), it's that you voted without waiting to see what anyone else posted.

[Quoting the next one out of order, because if relevance]:

You can be mad, and I get it. To my mind this was all about rectifying what happened yesterday and ALL of the military being deprived of a vote. It's not scummy. It wasn't ill considered.  I don't see any reason to let scum have any sway in my decision about MiX, nor do I think I need to justify anything to scum.  And the sooner I cast my vote, the sooner we could get on with the day.

Of course you don't need to justify anything to scum; but what about town. Are we not a team here?? (or are you 3rd party, like ash is suggesting). And the point isn't so much about that but about hearing what others could provide and opine. I do agree with not wanting it to drag out during the day, but you voted at just 90 minutes of being in the jury. There would have been plenty of time to let everyone check in and then still decide within, say, 24 hours. but again, 90 minutes!

Also, mysteriously absent is you're saying anything about this supposed QT you had with ADK (even a denial, or a denial of its influence in your decision).

I think you faked all of that because you knew you would not flip from the very beginning.  It was your own power, or ADK's power, or your faction's power.

Essentially, it was all planned in case you were the exile, knowing you could plant all sorts of seeds of doubt and misinformation.

I love it! this is the kind of Keyser Soze scheming I usually accuse someone of. I do have a theory on this, coming up in a future post...

(Plus, we already know ADK is not town.)

Well, we know that that is MiX's claim, at least.

Which of those statements do you actually believe? I guess the first one's true?

Not sure which statements you are referring to here.

goodness, Swowl was human, I didn't detect a "blocking" action because I only detect Cylon's actions.

Swowl was a jailkeeper and jailkept me on the night before this one

This is confusing to me. Either Swowl was human and you wouldn't have detected anything; or was a Cylon and you would've detected both blocking and protecting, no?


PPE: 1

[scolapasta]

So, I'm inclined to think that Mix is 3rd Party. There seems to be an abundance of clues to that throughout everything.

He himself told us he he wants to be alive at the end if the game, saying it was his character arc. But what if instead it's his role itself? I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

He seems very focused on staying alive, which is something we all do, but combine his decisions for staying alive, with his decisions that have been anti town. Also the kind of info he has claimed to receive for his power (assuming they are true) would definitely be useful for a Survivor - learning that some human-aligned can convert, that there was 1 Cylon-aligned on a wagon, etc.

The fact that he was not brigged when we voted him could even be a 1 shot power of his; something like, one time, when you are voted to be brigged, you will instead be tried by jury.  (this could be the case even if he's not 3rd party, but scum instead)

My last potential reason for this idea is that his character is Baltar. That would be the exact right character for such a role. And we do not that characters have related game effects like this - Roslin started out as President, Helo started out off the Galactica.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, mysteriously absent is you're saying anything about this supposed QT you had with ADK (even a denial, or a denial of its influence in your decision).

Is this important for folks to know? How would it help us?

[MiX]

So, I'm inclined to think that Mix is 3rd Party. There seems to be an abundance of clues to that throughout everything.

He himself told us he he wants to be alive at the end if the game, saying it was his character arc. But what if instead it's his role itself? I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

He seems very focused on staying alive, which is something we all do, but combine his decisions for staying alive, with his decisions that have been anti town. Also the kind of info he has claimed to receive for his power (assuming they are true) would definitely be useful for a Survivor - learning that some human-aligned can convert, that there was 1 Cylon-aligned on a wagon, etc.

The fact that he was not brigged when we voted him could even be a 1 shot power of his; something like, one time, when you are voted to be brigged, you will instead be tried by jury.  (this could be the case even if he's not 3rd party, but scum instead)

My last potential reason for this idea is that his character is Baltar. That would be the exact right character for such a role. And we do not that characters have related game effects like this - Roslin started out as President, Helo started out off the Galactica.

Ok yes but why would I lie now? If I was a third-party, I wouldn't had ratted ADK out, I would've claimed it myself.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

Yeah, I've been considering that too (complete with the speculation about the jury-of-peers thing being part of the role), but I feel like him outright saying that he wants to be alive at the end is too close to his actual role to be a fake-claim that would stand any chance of throwing us off his tracks, if that's what we think it might be. I  do agree that MiX has been kind of broadcasting 3rd party vibes for quite a while, though.

@MiX, how early in this game did you learn that ADK was third-party?

@ADK, are you going to openly confirm your status, or do you claim that MiX is lying?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm third party, I have more to say but am on my phone right now

[EFHW]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, mysteriously absent is you're saying anything about this supposed QT you had with ADK (even a denial, or a denial of its influence in your decision).

Is this important for folks to know? How would it help us?

As the human-aligned juror who didn't get the memo about pre-court talks, I'd quite like to understand why! Like, if you two really had a QT, then I think it's very important for town to understand the reasoning that led both of you to vote the way you did, especially because ADK isn't human-aligned.

That said, if you didn't have a QT with ADK, I'd still like to understand why you sheeped their response so quickly, because it definitely seems anti-town not to have a discussion with actual townspeople involved. Merely saying that the majority of town wasn't voting for MiX really doesn't seem like enough of a reason not to exile to me, especially with so many unanswered questions around.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

What do you think of the cases where information doesn't add up, though? Do they make you at least a bit suspicious of the people making those claims?

I think having at least one cylon-aligned player on Jack still leaves room for at least one cylon-aligned player elsewhere. In a game this size, I think three cylon-aligned players is more or less what I'd assume.

As for the MiX wagon, I'd like to hear back from LL on what he means by #1322, which seems to imply that he assumes he didn't detect Swowl's actions in spite of the fact that Swowl may well have been a human-aligned cylon, because something doesn't quite add up there. I'm also likely to start feeling a Robz vote pretty soon, because scum-him could absolutely try to lurk this long using his "lacklustre town" meta as an excuse, but we also know he can do much better so I'd like to see some real content. Were you intending to vote for one of them?

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, mysteriously absent is you're saying anything about this supposed QT you had with ADK (even a denial, or a denial of its influence in your decision).

Is this important for folks to know? How would it help us?

As the human-aligned juror who didn't get the memo about pre-court talks, I'd quite like to understand why! Like, if you two really had a QT, then I think it's very important for town to understand the reasoning that led both of you to vote the way you did, especially because ADK isn't human-aligned.

That said, if you didn't have a QT with ADK, I'd still like to understand why you sheeped their response so quickly, because it definitely seems anti-town not to have a discussion with actual townspeople involved. Merely saying that the majority of town wasn't voting for MiX really doesn't seem like enough of a reason not to exile to me, especially with so many unanswered questions around.

I was in a QT with ADK, Swowl, and LaLight. ADK didn’t convince me, though; Swowl did. And when I saw his flip, I was sold.

[scolapasta]

So Swowl was in two QTs last night? And now he's incapacitated? (not that I'm saying there's necessarily a causal relationship there, just an interesting coincidence)

What I do find more interesting is that LaLight was in this QT buy voted for Didds.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm going to do this bullet-point style, cuz I have a lot to say

-I'm third party. I'm not going to say my win condition because I think doing so helps scum and I would like to help town right now. I will say a couple of things: I'm not a survivor. I can die and still win, and I can be alive at the end of the game and still lose. I do have to "share" victory with town or scum (or some hypothetical third faction), I can't win by myself

-I fullclaimed to mix in my first post in our QT. Me claiming to mix and collaborating with him for his benefit was the sole reason for me wanting to be VP. It helped my wincon, and it helped the wincon of whatever alignment mix happened to be. mix's reaction in our QT convinced me that he's town, but as I said yesterday, this is information that's only accessible to me. I feel comfortable saying all this now, because I think that mix's word vomit at the end of the day yesterday is a convincing argument that he's town. Obviously some people are going to disagree with this, but I'm at least hopeful that the majority of people will be settled as to mix's alignment

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

-The fact that swowl died makes me suspicious that there is scum in LL/didds and that they want to try and get a private QT with me so they can try and negotiate. We could try to exile one of them, but of course if we exile one of them and they flip town, then I'm in a bad spot because people have extra reason to be suspicious of me. There's also the fact that the exact membership of the Viper Pilot neighborhood is not known; it's entirely possible that someone is part of it and has stayed hidden by simply not posting there

-I feel out-of-game remorse for ending the trial so quickly, because it seemed like a cool mechanic that could have been fun. But I was never going to vote guilty because doing so would directly harm my wincon. I was genuinely surprised that didds voted so quickly, though, and it does make me suspicious of her

In conclusion,

vote: robz

PPE: hey, didds claimed before I did

[WestCoastDidds]

So Swowl was in two QTs last night? And now he's incapacitated? (not that I'm saying there's necessarily a causal relationship there, just an interesting coincidence)

What I do find more interesting is that LaLight was in this QT buy voted for Didds.

We have had the QT since N0, although I didn’t figure it out until N1. So LL has been chatting with me and voting for me throughout.

If there is scum in our neighborhood, it’s LL.

[WestCoastDidds]

-I feel out-of-game remorse for ending the trial so quickly, because it seemed like a cool mechanic that could have been fun. But I was never going to vote guilty because doing so would directly harm my wincon. I was genuinely surprised that didds voted so quickly, though, and it does make me suspicious of her

A minor thing is that I had a busy day in tap today and I didn’t know if I’d be around later. The more important thing though was that, like you, I wasn’t going to change my mind because I think that a. MiX is town and b. Your wincon is tied to his and you want him alive so okay. The only thing that would have changed my mind is if MiX had said he wanted to be brigged.

I guess it was anti-town in that there wasn’t discussion we could scrutinize later, but I didn’t think much about that. I was just in taking care of business mode at the start of my work day.

[MiX]

I read ADK's post a couple of times and I confirm everything they're saying.

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

Swowl was in a QT N3 with Space, and N2 with who you presume is ash...so who were they linked with N1?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I read ADK's post a couple of times and I confirm everything they're saying.

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

Swowl was in a QT N3 with Space, and N2 with who you presume is ash...so who were they linked with N1?

swowl said he had his mystery qt since the start of the game. Is there a reason to think he was linked with someone N1? I honestly might have missed a claim somewhere

[MiX]

I read ADK's post a couple of times and I confirm everything they're saying.

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

Swowl was in a QT N3 with Space, and N2 with who you presume is ash...so who were they linked with N1?

swowl said he had his mystery qt since the start of the game. Is there a reason to think he was linked with someone N1? I honestly might have missed a claim somewhere

Oh, okay. It's just that Swowl's been in 3 QTs now, maybe some of them are from his powers? He had 2 passives, after all.

[EFHW]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

What do you think of the cases where information doesn't add up, though? Do they make you at least a bit suspicious of the people making those claims?

Which claims don't add up?

[scolapasta]

Those of you who had a QT with Swowl, did he ever tell you who he blocked / protected N1? Because that might help us figure out the no NK on N1.

[ashersky]

Those of you who had a QT with Swowl, did he ever tell you who he blocked / protected N1? Because that might help us figure out the no NK on N1.

Couldn't that just have been fear/reluctance of the Hated modifier?

[ashersky]

So how do we explain WCD's actions?  WCD knows that ADK is not town-aligned, and yet follows him.  What town player blindly follows a non-town player on purpose, without at least discussing it with everyone?  Another non-town player, of course.

I wasn't following ADK. He just woke up before I did.  I do not have an opinion about ADK's fate.  I would rather find scum than third party, but whatevs.

The majority of people in this game wanted to exile Jack Rudd.  Two civilians wanted to exile MiX.  My vote only makes sense.

So, you are saying that exactly two of {ashersky, LL, Jack, Robz} are civilians.  How would you know that?
You are also saying that only one or zero of {MiX, WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, Space} are civilians, as it only took two civilians to override the larger wagon.  How do you also know that?

And mind telling us which is which?  MiX claimed civilian, so are the other 5 all military?  Is MiX lying?

Also, how convenient that both you and ADK were on the losing wagon, and then got to be on the jury and make up a "majority" to overturn your loss.

Well of {ashersky, LL, Jack, Robz}, I know LL is military, so at least two but could three of the remainder are civilian. I am not sure that it matters.  A minority, by a lot, of the people voting were voting for MiX. The majority, by a lot of the people voting were voting for Jack.

Of {MiX, WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, Space}, I know that WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, and maybe Space are military. MiX is the civilian, Space could be. That information is from just keeping track of what people have said.

If Space is a civilian, then Ash, Jack, and Robz are all civilian.  If Space is military, at least two of them are.

As for convenience that ADK and I were on the jury...salty about a RNG? Or saying it was rigged?

Bolded and upsized something with which I strongly disagree.

We are talking about 4 votes and 6 votes.

There were 12 players.  You know what a majority of 12 players would be?  7.  You know what a majority "by a lot" would be?  Like, I don't know, 10?  You know what is neither a majority NOR a majority by a lot?  6.

Like 6, 4 is also a minority of votes.  Is 4 a minority "by a lot"?  Maybe, that's subjective.  But it seems hyperbolic at best for you to make such a statement.

We're talking about a very close result.  Literally one person switching would have made them even.  This is just exaggerated defense for an indefensible move.