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[MiX]

Want to vote Pasta?

Sure.

Vote: scolapasta

[ashersky]

They know I'm (probably) a Cylon.  Take me out before that can happen, man.

You're assuming that while you're alive, you might suddenly switch from being human-aligned to being cylon-aligned, right? Have you checked to see whether your wincon (or legacy points allocation for this game, at least) can change after the point at which you're brigged?

I'm not saying I think that's a super-likely mechanism for faust to be using, but it does feel odd that you're quite focused on being brigged to prevent yourself from turning, when pushing to be brigged as a human-aligned player seems anti-town in every other possible way, and yet since this game persists after brigging, there must be some chance that some events after a player's brigging might be able to affect their wincon, points allocation or character story overall.

I will attempt to answer without getting mod-bonked again.

Your explanation of my assumption regarding the possibility of my alignment changing while alive is correct.  The town wincon that is listed in the rules post says 5 points for winning.  If my wincon changed while alive, I would assume that the points portion changes to whatever the mafia wincon rewards.  I assume that, if my wincon can change after I'm dead, the same would happen.

For my character arc quest (for lack of a better word), my being alive or dead does not matter. Winning is a requirement, though.

Does that answer your questions?  Being alive or dead in the game has no effect on anything that matters to me.  Winning is my only goal; currently that means fulfilling the town wincon.  I am hoping that dying locks it in.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.4

ashersky (2): ashersky, scolapasta
scolapasta (3): Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888

Not Voting (7): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, LaLight, Dylan32, Swowl

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.
Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really?

Yes, really.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

We already have one against you.

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

pasta's case for exiling ash is purely mechanical, though, which is why it's kind of scummy. None of it is based on whether or not ash is scum, it's based on the idea that ash *could* become scum at later date, maybe. I'm not interested in exiling people based on their hypothetical future conversions, and ash's behavior here screams that he's town right now

ash makes a case that getting exiled right now serves his personal wincon because it locks him in as town. Fine, why should the rest of town care? Our wincon requires us to exile scum, which you're not

Scola is scummy for pushing ash but he is at least putting a lot of effort into the game. Robz is kind of scummy for not putting in effort but I know he hates all the mechanics talk so eh. My scumread on EFHW persists from yesterday but I'd have to go back and read her stuff from today before I put my vote there

[scolapasta]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really?

Yes, really.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

We already have one against you.

I'm not surprised you'd be on this "useless" trope - as one of my main contributions is making the case against you. With reasons, unlike this supposed case you've made against me, since you don't like to disclose your reasoning. which of course is your prerogative, but at the same time is a convenient way to obfuscate a flimsy case.

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

That's not true, a lot of people are doing or at least trying to do something useful.

Like? I will admit it is a little frustrating that somehow my discussion of mechanics is "useless" while others discussion of mechanics is "useful".

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

Why do you say I'm not trying to catch current scum? Of course I am. Maybe my style is different than yours, but that doesn't mean you can mischaracterize what I'm trying to do.

pasta's case for exiling ash is purely mechanical, though, which is why it's kind of scummy. None of it is based on whether or not ash is scum, it's based on the idea that ash *could* become scum at later date, maybe. I'm not interested in exiling people based on their hypothetical future conversions, and ash's behavior here screams that he's town right now

ash makes a case that getting exiled right now serves his personal wincon because it locks him in as town. Fine, why should the rest of town care? Our wincon requires us to exile scum, which you're not

Scola is scummy for pushing ash but he is at least putting a lot of effort into the game. Robz is kind of scummy for not putting in effort but I know he hates all the mechanics talk so eh. My scumread on EFHW persists from yesterday but I'd have to go back and read her stuff from today before I put my vote there

I think this last one here gets to the guts of it. It seems that Im being seen as scummy (by a few) because I'm focused on mechanics and trying to solve the game, rather than reading others and evaluating meta. What is being missed here is that I'm relatively new here - I still don't have a clear idea of anyone's meta, not that I'd necessarily be good at reading it if I could. So I focus on what I hope am good at, mechanics / "solving the game". That's where I can provide value. If it comes off as a little scummy so be it.

I actually think, however ironic as it seems, that being a little scummy makes someone more likely to be town. Actual scum has to try to be very careful with everything they do, and come of completely as town. Hence was all the lurkers keep getting more and more suspicious. Meanwhile town is just trying to solve the game and will post whatever they can to try to help that.

Which is why I'm still on Awaclus for scum - his whole explanation reads to me like trying to come off as town, and the convenience of the lower score if he had picked scum. I think I caught him on that being too much, so now there's a convenient, "well it would have helped my character arc to pick scum so that does actually balance out, oh but I didn't actually notice that until now" argument.

And if I'm wrong about Awaclus, then it's either MiX or ADK taking advantage of the one actual wagon that is being built by misguided town.

So you know what, I'll switch my vote to where my conviction is and see if it garners any support.

Vote: Awaclus

Deadline is Saturday, very early for us USers, so let's try not to have a repeat of D1.

[MiX]

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

Why do you say I'm not trying to catch current scum? Of course I am. Maybe my style is different than yours, but that doesn't mean you can mischaracterize what I'm trying to do.

And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

You said that.

Vote: Awaclus

[Awaclus]

I'm not surprised you'd be on this "useless" trope - as one of my main contributions is making the case against you. With reasons, unlike this supposed case you've made against me, since you don't like to disclose your reasoning. which of course is your prerogative, but at the same time is a convenient way to obfuscate a flimsy case.

I have reasons. Really good reasons, actually. Why is the case on you flimsy?

Like? I will admit it is a little frustrating that somehow my discussion of mechanics is "useless" while others discussion of mechanics is "useful".

It should be obvious that what ash is doing is a waste of time. Others have been trying to move on, you have been making it harder.

I think this last one here gets to the guts of it. It seems that Im being seen as scummy (by a few) because I'm focused on mechanics and trying to solve the game, rather than reading others and evaluating meta. What is being missed here is that I'm relatively new here - I still don't have a clear idea of anyone's meta, not that I'd necessarily be good at reading it if I could. So I focus on what I hope am good at, mechanics / "solving the game". That's where I can provide value. If it comes off as a little scummy so be it.

Why do you think it is seen as scummy?

I actually think, however ironic as it seems, that being a little scummy makes someone more likely to be town. Actual scum has to try to be very careful with everything they do, and come of completely as town. Hence was all the lurkers keep getting more and more suspicious. Meanwhile town is just trying to solve the game and will post whatever they can to try to help that.

For comparison, here's what you said back when you were not the leading wagon:

scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally.

And if I'm wrong about Awaclus, then it's either MiX or ADK taking advantage of the one actual wagon that is being built by misguided town.

So you know what, I'll switch my vote to where my conviction is and see if it garners any support.

And of course as we both know, you are wrong about Awaclus, so this is a great time to start downplaying your responsibility in my potential exile as well as setting up the next misexiles.

[MiX]

And if I'm wrong about Awaclus, then it's either MiX or ADK taking advantage of the one actual wagon that is being built by misguided town.

So you know what, I'll switch my vote to where my conviction is and see if it garners any support.

And of course as we both know, you are wrong about Awaclus, so this is a great time to start downplaying your responsibility in my potential exile as well as setting up the next misexiles.

He actually might not know. Unless you know he knows?

[Awaclus]

He actually might not know. Unless you know he knows?

He's scum, of course he knows that I'm not on his team.

[WestCoastDidds]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

[Awaclus]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

[WestCoastDidds]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

This extended back and forth with you

[Jack Rudd]

Scola's only got one previous game as scum - it's difficult to say what is "usual" with respect to such cases.

[scolapasta]

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

Why do you say I'm not trying to catch current scum? Of course I am. Maybe my style is different than yours, but that doesn't mean you can mischaracterize what I'm trying to do.

And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

You said that.

Vote: Awaclus

I did say that. But I don't see how that reads as my not trying to catch scum.

[scolapasta]

I'm not surprised you'd be on this "useless" trope - as one of my main contributions is making the case against you. With reasons, unlike this supposed case you've made against me, since you don't like to disclose your reasoning. which of course is your prerogative, but at the same time is a convenient way to obfuscate a flimsy case.

I have reasons. Really good reasons, actually. Why is the case on you flimsy?

Flimsy, A short play by scolapasta:

Detective: You're guilty. I have solid evidence.
Suspect: I'm innocent - what's your evidence so I can exonerate myself?
Detective: I won't tell you. But tell me why this evidence I won't tell you is flimsy.
Lieutenant: Sorry, Mr. Innocent, You're free to go.
[FIN]

Like? I will admit it is a little frustrating that somehow my discussion of mechanics is "useless" while others discussion of mechanics is "useful".

It should be obvious that what ash is doing is a waste of time. Others have been trying to move on, you have been making it harder.

I didn't think it was a waste of time. You seem to have decided that ash is town but playing poorly. I have only played with ash once maybe (?), but he was a good and wily player. So I'm giving him benefit of the doubt that he's not playing poorly. Still not 100% sure on his idea, but it definitely seemed worth considering and not just blowing off.

I think this last one here gets to the guts of it. It seems that Im being seen as scummy (by a few) because I'm focused on mechanics and trying to solve the game, rather than reading others and evaluating meta. What is being missed here is that I'm relatively new here - I still don't have a clear idea of anyone's meta, not that I'd necessarily be good at reading it if I could. So I focus on what I hope am good at, mechanics / "solving the game". That's where I can provide value. If it comes off as a little scummy so be it.

Why do you think it is seen as scummy?

I actually think, however ironic as it seems, that being a little scummy makes someone more likely to be town. Actual scum has to try to be very careful with everything they do, and come of completely as town. Hence was all the lurkers keep getting more and more suspicious. Meanwhile town is just trying to solve the game and will post whatever they can to try to help that.

For comparison, here's what you said back when you were not the leading wagon:

scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally.

OK, I do see how you can take these and read them the way you're reading them. I blame it on my quick posting, so let me be try to be clearer.

Scum has to be deceptive to win. Therefore they can't just tell the truth about everything ("hey! look at me, I'm scum") so when they post they have to parse carefully in order to keep a consistent story. This is risky as the more they say, the more they can be caught in an inconsistency. The alternative is to just post less. Put less out there and there is less to catch you on.

Town doesn't have to be so careful. They should generally be telling the truth about everything, so can just post freely without having to double and triple check things. That's what I meant by being able to play it safe.  Of course town shouldn't post everything they know, but that's different from having to check their consistency.

[scolapasta]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

This extended back and forth with you

I do think the back and forth is anti-town. So I'm willing to shift my focus to finding other possible scum. My vote is in and I've provided the reasons for it, in case anyone else wants to join me.

(I do hope y'all enjoyed my little play )

Actually, one more question for Awaclus here: are you Hated this day?

[MiX]

I'm not surprised you'd be on this "useless" trope - as one of my main contributions is making the case against you. With reasons, unlike this supposed case you've made against me, since you don't like to disclose your reasoning. which of course is your prerogative, but at the same time is a convenient way to obfuscate a flimsy case.

I have reasons. Really good reasons, actually. Why is the case on you flimsy?

Flimsy, A short play by scolapasta:

Detective: You're guilty. I have solid evidence.
Suspect: I'm innocent - what's your evidence so I can exonerate myself?
Detective: I won't tell you. But tell me why this evidence I won't tell you is flimsy.
Lieutenant: Sorry, Mr. Innocent, You're free to go.
[FIN]

That Lieutenant is clearly the Suspect's Accomplice.

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

This extended back and forth with you

I do think the back and forth is anti-town. So I'm willing to shift my focus to finding other possible scum. My vote is in and I've provided the reasons for it, in case anyone else wants to join me.

(I do hope y'all enjoyed my little play )

Actually, one more question for Awaclus here: are you Hated this day?

If you identified Awaclus as scum due to it, isn't this back and forth very pro-town?

[scolapasta]

If you identified Awaclus as scum due to it, isn't this back and forth very pro-town?

It would be, but it doesn't seem to be revealing much new any more. And it's getting in the way of others posting and allowing lurkers to continue lurking.

At this point you (the collective you) are either on board with the case I've made, onboard with the case Awaclus made (what case, you say? 🤷‍♂️ ), or it's better if we move on and try to find scum somewhere else. We're down to ~60 hours left in the day.

[WestCoastDidds]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

This extended back and forth with you

I do think the back and forth is anti-town. So I'm willing to shift my focus to finding other possible scum. My vote is in and I've provided the reasons for it, in case anyone else wants to join me.

(I do hope y'all enjoyed my little play )

Actually, one more question for Awaclus here: are you Hated this day?

I 100% enjoyed your petite play!

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m surprised we haven’t heard more from Swowl or EFHW. I also wonder when we might get a better sense of Jack.

I know that I haven’t been super active, but still...

[A Drowned Kernel]

I’m surprised we haven’t heard more from Swowl or EFHW. I also wonder when we might get a better sense of Jack.

I know that I haven’t been super active, but still...

Why swowl and EFHW in particular?

[EFHW]

I’m surprised we haven’t heard more from Swowl or EFHW. I also wonder when we might get a better sense of Jack.

I know that I haven’t been super active, but still...

Sorry, circumstances in another game have me not wanting to get confused and needing to dedicate my time there. It's temporary.

[Swowl]

Vote: Pasta

[Swowl]

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

That's not true, a lot of people are doing or at least trying to do something useful.

I just voted them, so obviously grain of salt on this one, but it still isn't true. gimme an example of content created today that is not about game mechanics.
- you did the thing with math
- math mix prez
- ash cylon result
- game set up talk.

what else has happened that I missed?

[Awaclus]

Flimsy, A short play by scolapasta:

Detective: You're guilty. I have solid evidence.
Suspect: I'm innocent - what's your evidence so I can exonerate myself?
Detective: I won't tell you. But tell me why this evidence I won't tell you is flimsy.
Lieutenant: Sorry, Mr. Innocent, You're free to go.
[FIN]

You don't have the power to remove my vote from you unless you have reasons that can convince me to remove it myself. "Sure, I have done everything exactly like scum would have done it and I have no evidence to suggest that I'm town, but you can't prove I'm scum" is not a very convincing reason.

I didn't think it was a waste of time. You seem to have decided that ash is town but playing poorly. I have only played with ash once maybe (?), but he was a good and wily player. So I'm giving him benefit of the doubt that he's not playing poorly. Still not 100% sure on his idea, but it definitely seemed worth considering and not just blowing off.

I don't necessarily think he's town, and I don't necessarily think he's playing poorly. But it was a waste of time.

OK, I do see how you can take these and read them the way you're reading them. I blame it on my quick posting, so let me be try to be clearer.

Scum has to be deceptive to win. Therefore they can't just tell the truth about everything ("hey! look at me, I'm scum") so when they post they have to parse carefully in order to keep a consistent story. This is risky as the more they say, the more they can be caught in an inconsistency. The alternative is to just post less. Put less out there and there is less to catch you on.

Town doesn't have to be so careful. They should generally be telling the truth about everything, so can just post freely without having to double and triple check things. That's what I meant by being able to play it safe.  Of course town shouldn't post everything they know, but that's different from having to check their consistency.

It's funny how the ideal strategy for scum and town just keeps changing depending on who you're trying to paint as the exile target.