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[WestCoastDidds]

Was there a time you didn't believe Awaclus, Swowl? I felt like he was being forthcoming.

I am not sure how I feel about exiling Ashersky.

I am puzzled about why LaLi needs to have a cylon alive to win, and its messing with my head.

Are you puzzled because of flavor stuff?

"Not sure" is close enough to "okay with it" to vote.

No, I don’t know much about the flavor beyond a couple of episodes. I’m puzzled that we are having a discussion of the threat of cyclone, regardless of alignment, and LaLight says that he needs a cylon alive. Does he need that for his bonus points? Is he a cylon trigger-er? Is it third party? I can’t yet puzzle out a way that it is town.

Yes, I’m okay with voting for you, if that seems like the best option. But it would obviously be better if we could find mafia.

The testing machine had to have been added for a reason and the public nature of the test results have to do something. Who benefits from knowing cylon status?

[LaLight]

DatSwan is weirdly silent, I remember him being more vocal. I actually forgot he's in the game

oh, sorry a lot, Swowl

[LaLight]

Was there a time you didn't believe Awaclus, Swowl? I felt like he was being forthcoming.

I am not sure how I feel about exiling Ashersky.

I am puzzled about why LaLi needs to have a cylon alive to win, and its messing with my head.

Are you puzzled because of flavor stuff?

"Not sure" is close enough to "okay with it" to vote.

No, I don’t know much about the flavor beyond a couple of episodes. I’m puzzled that we are having a discussion of the threat of cyclone, regardless of alignment, and LaLight says that he needs a cylon alive. Does he need that for his bonus points? Is he a cylon trigger-er? Is it third party? I can’t yet puzzle out a way that it is town.

Yes, I’m okay with voting for you, if that seems like the best option. But it would obviously be better if we could find mafia.

The testing machine had to have been added for a reason and the public nature of the test results have to do something. Who benefits from knowing cylon status?

I already said this is my character arc, yes, bonus points

[Robz888]

I think I am more likely to believe ash is town at this point.

[scolapasta]

I am still wary of Awaclus. Like I tried saying before, but was dismissed with a "you're just repeating what I said" I find it suspicious that his choosing scum would lead to two fewer points. I think the best lies are surrounded by truth so I could very well see a good player like Awaclus revealing everything truthfully, except adding this small tidbit as a reason why he chose town, only to secretly having chosen scum.

It would lead to three fewer points. The difference between 5 points and 2 points is not 2.

Sure. I misread your post as "by 2", instead of "to 2". Doesn't really change my point. (except maybe to make me more doubtful)

[scolapasta]

• ash being a Cylon. I've only played with ash a few games but he seems like he's smart and willing to try crazy things. I don't put it past him to be scum, suspect he is a cylon, and so want to get the test for that reason. Either is shows him as human, we he can sell as town, or as Cylon and then he plays the exile me story, knowing we won't. I'm not saying I think this is the case, but I do think it should stay on everyone's radar.

This is a good point to raise.  I think I see it coming most often from my mafia partners, not from town.

Also, after reading more wiki pages, it appears my reaction to finding out I was a Cylon was a pretty good approximation of the actual character arc on the show.  Fear, disbelief, suicidal tendencies, etc.  I guess I could have planned all of that as well.

I think scola is a good exile option after me, regardless of my flip.

I'm not sure I get this logic:

• if I'm scum and you're scum (this idea), why would I suggest it and call you out? So that I get exiled, buying you cred? that seems risky.
• if I'm scum and you're town, but could possibly become scum, same as above?
• If I'm scum and you're town that can't convert - I guess I could do that here, but I still think a) I'd be painting a bigger target on by back for little reward. Since I think most of do think you're likely town.

And that last point is key, I do think you're likely town, at least for now. But I do think it's the kind of move you might make (you seem to agree), so wanted to at least brainstorm it.

I think my bigger point was ignored, that right now you and Awaclus are both likely Cylons and that there's a decent risk one or both of you have or will turn against town is scary.

[scolapasta]

I'll ask it another way:

For players who do are not convinced I am town, why wouldn't you exile a mafia read?
For players who do read me as town, why wouldn't you believe me or support me?

You are cherry picking options here. You've considered these options:

1) You're scum and playing like an idiot, so it would be in town's best interests to go with your plan and exile you
2) You're town and know what you're doing, so it would be in town's best interests to go with your plan and exile you

You've excluded these options:

3) You're scum and know what you're doing, so it would hurt town to go with your plan and exile you
4) You're town and playing like an idiot, so it would hurt town to go with your plan and exile you

While true, I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely, so I wouldn't call it cherry picking, so much as reducing to the more likely options.

[scolapasta]

Why is it irrational to exile Galen specifically?

I am special because we have the Cylon result from the thing today.  That is a data point we have on only me.  It is unique to me.  That makes me special.  So yes, the general statement can be true for all players, but is much more likely true for me, given the additional information we have.

I mean, imagine a mafia power that says "target a player -- if they are a Cylon, they will share your alignment."  Pretty straightforward, easy to implement, sensible, could balance a small faction starting size, etc.

They know I'm (probably) a Cylon.  Take me out before that can happen, man.

Because exiling based on flavor name does not catch scum. And I'm townreading you.

The cylon testing machine is arbitrary: we should honestly ignore it for today. It's meaningless unless someone has a way to make it certain. Playing probabilities with faust is not the way to go here.

That power is a bit bastard, don't you think? Although I can't really rule it out from the realm of possibilities...

They know nothing, because the testing machine is arbitrary. Will they pick you with that hypothetical ability? Maybe. Will it work? Who knows.


Vote: scola, I don't know...does anyone know if Dylan is in VLA? They haven't talked today.

Voting me here with no explanation? (or is the fact that I'm suspicious of you and your executive order process (not necessarily the final choice) enough to cast a vote against me?)

[scolapasta]

I think I am more likely to believe ash is town at this point.

See my other post. I agree with this; but am wary of any known (or suspected, since test isn't 100% accurate) Cylons.

[Awaclus]

While true, I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely, so I wouldn't call it cherry picking, so much as reducing to the more likely options.

Why is scum more likely to play like an idiot than town?

[Awaclus]

Vote: scolapasta

[Swowl]

Cool, so that's settled then. Can we go back to playing the game now?

Isn't it settled that I am right?  Faust confirmed involuntary alignment changes can happen.  I would take his answers to mean that I am definitely town-aligned for as long as that is the only information I have, but that I may not always be town-aligned, and I may have no control over that.

quote-ish "the game cannot contain alignment changes that you are unaware of". have you been told you are town? cool. You are town. If you are skum... change to skum... whatever... you will be informed. That is black and white from faust's answer.

I guess I just don't get your concern? you are Town as you say. and it is 100% clear you will be informed if that changes.

This is me agreeing with mix (weird but true). It is no different than anyone else. You just have the spotlight rn. If you are town with a chance that you can become skum... you play for town. if you don't, then either you have additional information or your primary objective is not to win.

I agree with you that I am town right now (assuming faust hasn't told me I am now mafia).  My prior worry about being mafia without knowing it may not have been clear.  If I am "trigger-able" for lack of a better word, then I am actually a threat to town, not an asset.  If mafia can flip my alignment, against my will no less, you can't leave me around to affect the numbers.  An exiled town is 1 million percent better than an additional mafia.  Right?

Random numbers:  10 players, 3 mafia, 7 town.  You are given a choice:  Tomorrow, there are 3 mafia and 6 town OR there are 4 mafia and 6 town.

These are literally the only choices to consider here when it comes to exiling a player who can be flipped.

Hence my argument that removing players from the game that we know are highly likely to be a threat to town even though they may be town-aligned is important.  Besides, you only have my word to go on that I'm town-aligned.

Unless you think I'm a Jester, or there's a Jester mechanic for overall arcs, I don't understand why no one supports me.  Run it through from town!ash and non-town!ash perspectives.  There are no scenarios where I'm doing this to hurt town.

1. lol on timing was gonna actually bring up Jester concept last night, but fairly certain that is a BM role
2. OK I agree with your logic. Except for the fact that you are leaving out the 3rd option, which is the option to pick 100% of the time as Town... or at least attempt to pick

Option 3 - 10 players, 7 town 3 mafia alive you are given a choice... tomorrow it is 6-3 or 6-4 by your logic.... false... we lynch skum today and it changes everything.

Just a fancy way of saying that while I think you have a point, it is not good enough for me to vote someone that is most likely town rather than attempt to exile skum.

[Swowl]

DatSwan is weirdly silent, I remember him being more vocal. I actually forgot he's in the game

oh, sorry a lot, Swowl

lol all good... I completely missed it actually.

[Jack Rudd]

Was there a time you didn't believe Awaclus, Swowl? I felt like he was being forthcoming.

I am not sure how I feel about exiling Ashersky.

I am puzzled about why LaLi needs to have a cylon alive to win, and its messing with my head.

Are you puzzled because of flavor stuff?

"Not sure" is close enough to "okay with it" to vote.

No, I don’t know much about the flavor beyond a couple of episodes. I’m puzzled that we are having a discussion of the threat of cyclone, regardless of alignment, and LaLight says that he needs a cylon alive. Does he need that for his bonus points? Is he a cylon trigger-er? Is it third party? I can’t yet puzzle out a way that it is town.

It's a flavour thing. Helo, the character, is (a) fully human-aligned throughout the entirety of the BSG series, and (b) in a long-term, loving relationship with Athena, a model 8 Cylon.

[scolapasta]

While true, I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely, so I wouldn't call it cherry picking, so much as reducing to the more likely options.

Why is scum more likely to play like an idiot than town?

You ask a lot of questions, but don't answer when people ask you. Why is that?

Because scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally. At least on early days.

if you're purported switching to scum would have still been worth the same # of points, would you have switched?

[MiX]

While true, I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely, so I wouldn't call it cherry picking, so much as reducing to the more likely options.

Why is scum more likely to play like an idiot than town?

Because scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally. At least on early days.

This sounds like an argument for town playing worse than scum: scum needs to play the game from the start and think things through, town doesn't feel any pressure early and can generally do nothing.

Voting me here with no explanation? (or is the fact that I'm suspicious of you and your executive order process (not necessarily the final choice) enough to cast a vote against me?)

If my executive order process leads to the correct conclusion 100% of the time, then it is no different than your so called ideal view of the executive order process.

I'm voting you because I think you're scum: last time you were coasting and generally pushing bad ideas and things that hurt town to think and talk about, and I think you're doing the same thing here.

[Awaclus]

You ask a lot of questions, but don't answer when people ask you. Why is that?

I'm against revealing information that could help scum (including why I'm voting for them). I don't ask such questions and don't like to answer them either. Other types of questions are fine.

Because scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally. At least on early days.

Whoever is winning can play it safe and whoever is losing needs to take risks[/quote]. Assuming the game is balanced, there is no reason for town or scum to take or avoid risks on early days.

if you're purported switching to scum would have still been worth the same # of points, would you have switched?

Overall, I felt like my chances of winning the game were probably about the same or maybe a bit better if I chose to remain town

[Awaclus]

That [/quote] was suppose to be an [/url].

[faust]

Dylan32 has been prodded.

[Dylan32]

Crap, didn't realize I hadn't said anything. I'm following along, but with this many people as I'm reading and catching up, every time I have a thought it seems like someone else had already said the thing before I got here, so I'm just having a hard time contributing in general.

In all the games I've played with Awaclus, this might be the first time I've read their posts and just thought they were town. Their usual playstyle (keeping stuff very close to the vest, low info shared) just has always made them hard to read, so this is weird.

I think Ash is probably telling the truth and doing what he thinks is best for town. I disagree with him that exiling him now would be best for town.

Would whoever it was (Swowl maybe?) that referenced scola's last scum game and playstyle drop the game that they were pulling that from? Or scola, just which game were you scum in? I might not have a ton of original thoughts, but I could go read that game to see if that was a fair comparison between the two games and look for other things that might point to scum!scola.

[MiX]

Crap, didn't realize I hadn't said anything. I'm following along, but with this many people as I'm reading and catching up, every time I have a thought it seems like someone else had already said the thing before I got here, so I'm just having a hard time contributing in general.

In all the games I've played with Awaclus, this might be the first time I've read their posts and just thought they were town. Their usual playstyle (keeping stuff very close to the vest, low info shared) just has always made them hard to read, so this is weird.

I think Ash is probably telling the truth and doing what he thinks is best for town. I disagree with him that exiling him now would be best for town.

Would whoever it was (Swowl maybe?) that referenced scola's last scum game and playstyle drop the game that they were pulling that from? Or scola, just which game were you scum in? I might not have a ton of original thoughts, but I could go read that game to see if that was a fair comparison between the two games and look for other things that might point to scum!scola.

Dropped.

Who do you think is scum? What do you think about the cylon testing machine result?

[Robz888]

Lets exile someone.

[MiX]

Lets exile someone.

Do you think Awaclus should be that someone? If so, why?

[Dylan32]

Crap, didn't realize I hadn't said anything. I'm following along, but with this many people as I'm reading and catching up, every time I have a thought it seems like someone else had already said the thing before I got here, so I'm just having a hard time contributing in general.

In all the games I've played with Awaclus, this might be the first time I've read their posts and just thought they were town. Their usual playstyle (keeping stuff very close to the vest, low info shared) just has always made them hard to read, so this is weird.

I think Ash is probably telling the truth and doing what he thinks is best for town. I disagree with him that exiling him now would be best for town.

Would whoever it was (Swowl maybe?) that referenced scola's last scum game and playstyle drop the game that they were pulling that from? Or scola, just which game were you scum in? I might not have a ton of original thoughts, but I could go read that game to see if that was a fair comparison between the two games and look for other things that might point to scum!scola.

Dropped.

Who do you think is scum? What do you think about the cylon testing machine result?

Thanks my dude.

I don't know yet. It feels like 80% of the conversation has been driven by the same 6 people, so there's a whole lot of people I just don't have a feel for this game yet. I think generally the most active people have been townie, but scola has pinged scum bells a little bit, hence why I want to look into the other game.

I think it's probably more likely true than false, with no basis for that belief other than the thought "If I were designing a mechanic to introduce useful but possibly incorrect info to the game, how would I do it?"  I appreciate Robz' flavor explanation a lot, and based on that I think there's probably very little we can conclude about alignment from species info. Having said that, if we hypothetically could know like here are the X players who are cylons, we would probably find most but probably not all of the cylon-aligned players in that pool. At least, that's my intuitive sense of things that could be completely wrong. Like if there were several humans early in the show that all worked against humanity to help the cylons, that could even be grounds for an entire human cylon-aligned team to start the legacy game, with cylon-aligned cylons being the characters that the next game's mafia team gets. To be clear, I don't think an all human mafia team is likely here, but within the context of a legacy game, maybe it could make sense. All that to say, I have no idea man lol.

I feel like I need to start watching this show. Not to have a grasp on flavor for this game, but if the show is as interesting as these game mechanics make it out to be, it'd be totally worth it.

[Dylan32]

Wait, I totally forgot scola was the scum that clinched the deal in the Space Gambit game... yeah, THAT's the game I wanted to have to relive...