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[Jack Rudd]

Oh, I can do that one. Vote: Scolapasta

[scolapasta]

So c'mon people, post!

Vote: scolapasta, as requested!

Oh, I can do that one. Vote: Scolapasta

Ha! Well at least I managed to get some people to post. But voting without stating at least some reason? C'mon!

[Awaclus]

So c'mon people, post!

Vote: scolapasta, as requested!

Oh, I can do that one. Vote: Scolapasta

Ha! Well at least I managed to get some people to post. But voting without stating at least some reason? C'mon!

Is there a reason why I shouldn't vote for you?

[WestCoastDidds]

I agree, Scola, on how odd today has been. Deadline is super early (like 3am) on Monday night/Tuesday morning so it’s getting on in hours.

My best guesses for scum, right now, are ADK and Jack Rudd.
In my next scummiest are MiX and Rob.

[scolapasta]

So c'mon people, post!

Vote: scolapasta, as requested!

Oh, I can do that one. Vote: Scolapasta

Ha! Well at least I managed to get some people to post. But voting without stating at least some reason? C'mon!

Is there a reason why I shouldn't vote for you?

It feels to me in this game, you should need reasons to vote for rather than reasons not to vote for. Otherwise, I could volley the question back to you: are there reasons you're not voting for MiX? or WCD? or Jack? etc. etc.

But it always frustrates me when someone answers a question with a question. (what are you avoiding?) So I'll give it my best shot - I seem to be one of the few people here actually trying to find scum. I get that my case against mathdude was weak, which is why I moved away from it. (though I'd like to point out, I was the only vote at all on mathdude, so there has never been any danger of brigging our president.

My current vote on Jack was really just a way to see if it inspired something more meaty from him. Alas, all it did was get another vote on my direction.

Maybe now at least you'll try to give me an answer?

[scolapasta]

I would be curious to see a count of who's posted and how many times... I feel like several players have posted so much less than seems to be there norm - Robz, Swowl, Dylan, space (though in space's case they usually post less frequently but more meaty)... Even MiX is doesn't quite seem his normally MiX-imp-ish self!

[Jack Rudd]

I'm just trying to learn the ropes by reading. And I've currently not got a clue what the meta is around here.

[scolapasta]

I'm just trying to learn the ropes by reading. And I've currently not got a clue what the meta is around here.

So why vote for me?

[Awaclus]

Maybe now at least you'll try to give me an answer?

I'm voting for you because I want you to be one vote closer to exile than you would be without my vote.

[Jack Rudd]

I'm just trying to learn the ropes by reading. And I've currently not got a clue what the meta is around here.

So why vote for me?

Because you voted for me. 

[mathdude]

Time for some other possible points of discussion... see if we can liven this thing up a bit.

What do you guys think of turning points?  I've heard from MiX (in our QT), but I'm looking for other opinions.  Will they be helpful?  Harmful?  Some of each?  They will obviously add variety, but I'm not sure whether I/we should be aiming for them/some or not.  Obviously, some are inevitable (Day 2 begins... at least that sounds inevitable, except for that flavour-idea someone mentioned about jumping every 33 minutes - could that repeat day 1 multiple times?).  Some of the triggers for turning points mentioned in game intro are not ideal for me personally (President sent to brig, president incapacitated at night, Military becomes president), but if some of those might help Town, then great.

For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing.  Plus, with Curfew in effect, I'm inclined not to use it.

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I had initially seen that I was president, and thought that gave me Innocent Child status... boy am I wrong.  It means I'm civilian, and I don't even know if that's helpful.  It doesn't even confirm that I'm Town.  Flavour-wise, at least in Season 1, from what I've read, it should be obvious that I'm Town (human-aligned).

And to make this presidency even more awkward... I've got this VP-problem!  (Don't worry MiX, I don't mean that you're a problem... or are you?)  Again, I assumed this was a good thing.  At first, being able to bounce ideas off someone outside of the thread.  But I have no idea if I can trust my VP.  And they can't (or won't want to) try to gain my trust too much either, since I'm not conf-Town, so it's almost a burden, not a benefit.  So do I not say anything in QT with VP?  Do I take my bets that I picked well this first time, and pick the same person when I get to pick a new one (night 2... every even night) instead of potentially gambling and opening up conversation with another person who might not be safe?

Basically, I'm not sure where to go with things here.  Hopefully this prompts some discussions!

[SpaceAnemone]

space (though in space's case they usually post less frequently but more meaty)... Even MiX is doesn't quite seem his normally MiX-imp-ish self!

Haha, I'd love to oblige, but I haven't done the setup for my vote counter for this game yet, and it's already coming up for 1am, so no post/word counts till tomorrow, unless someone else wants to code something up :-)

Believe it or not, I've been absorbed for most of the evening playing the BSG board game with some friends on TTS. It was meant to be the second half of a game we started last weekend, but one of the players called time after ~4 hours, so we're going to have to schedule a third session :-o

I agree that it's quite stally, but I think MiX is still being quite vocal enough. Am I the only one who thinks that much more from the same sets of people will just contribute more to the stall, rather than making anything move forward, because lots of posts about very little info just drowns out anything interesting and new that people say?

PPE 2: Excited for interesting new things now...

[MiX]

I would be curious to see a count of who's posted and how many times... I feel like several players have posted so much less than seems to be there norm - Robz, Swowl, Dylan, space (though in space's case they usually post less frequently but more meaty)... Even MiX is doesn't quite seem his normally MiX-imp-ish self!

This is mcmc's job! But fine, I'll do it...

Jack Rudd - 9
SpaceAnemone - 11
WestCoastDidds - 8
MiX - 35
EFHW - 11
scolapasta - 28
LaLight - 19
Dylan32 - 6
A Drowned Kernel - 20
Swowl - 23
Robz888 - 10
ashersky - 23
Awaclus - 14
mathdude - 12

PPE: I don't think we should talk about turning points publicly and for the last time, please talk to me before revealing things in the thread I swear to god.

[MiX]

That's PPE 2, I just saw space's post and updated the post count without changing the PPE count

I did that post count by hand, so it may be off.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, I love seeing someone who irritates you with more frequency than I do!

[Awaclus]

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I don't know anything about the flavor, but I think it's pretty clear that our species does play into things somehow, otherwise it would not be in the game. The same is true for civilian/military. It might affect abilities, e.g. a player could have an ability that targets a player and does different things depending on the target's species. Civilian and military affect the president at least, but there could also be abilities that care about it. It is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, and it probably doesn't suggest anything about your alignment. There is no battle between civilians and military, or humans and Cylons, only town and scum — we win when all threats to town have been eliminated regardless of anything else that might be going on.

[MiX]

MiX, I love seeing someone who irritates you with more frequency than I do!

Well, I know you by now, whereas math's new here, so that's not a fair comparison

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I don't know anything about the flavor, but I think it's pretty clear that our species does play into things somehow, otherwise it would not be in the game. The same is true for civilian/military. It might affect abilities, e.g. a player could have an ability that targets a player and does different things depending on the target's species. Civilian and military affect the president at least, but there could also be abilities that care about it. It is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, and it probably doesn't suggest anything about your alignment. There is no battle between civilians and military, or humans and Cylons, only town and scum — we win when all threats to town have been eliminated regardless of anything else that might be going on.

Awaclus gets a day pass for today and tomorrow from me. I haven't seen this much truth distilled into one post...ever, probably.

[scolapasta]

MiX, I love seeing someone who irritates you with more frequency than I do!

Well, I know you by now, whereas math's new here, so that's not a fair comparison

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I don't know anything about the flavor, but I think it's pretty clear that our species does play into things somehow, otherwise it would not be in the game. The same is true for civilian/military. It might affect abilities, e.g. a player could have an ability that targets a player and does different things depending on the target's species. Civilian and military affect the president at least, but there could also be abilities that care about it. It is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, and it probably doesn't suggest anything about your alignment. There is no battle between civilians and military, or humans and Cylons, only town and scum — we win when all threats to town have been eliminated regardless of anything else that might be going on.

Awaclus gets a day pass for today and tomorrow from me. I haven't seen this much truth distilled into one post...ever, probably.

This seems like a bad reason for a "day pass". I mean it is concise so 👍 for that, but it's just clarifying things that seemed fairly clear to those with experience in these RMM games.

(also, thanks for the post counts - they confirmed some of the things my intuition was telling me)

[MiX]

This seems like a bad reason for a "day pass". I mean it is concise so 👍 for that, but it's just clarifying things that seemed fairly clear to those with experience in these RMM games.

(also, thanks for the post counts - they confirmed some of the things my intuition was telling me)

Yeah, yeah it is concise, and I have a funny feeling we're going to need someone that is good at clarifying things this game. The post also reads slightly townie to me, but probably not for a good reason.

What does the post count tell you?

[EFHW]

mathdude: For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing

I'm curious about math saying "me" here, instead of "town".

[SpaceAnemone]

Great post, Mathdude. I really appreciate the conversation hooks!

What do you guys think of turning points?

The concept of "turning point" isn't in the series or the game, so I assume it's a mechanism faust has invented or pulled from elsewhere to make the game mechanics operate well. I suspect turning points occur at all the instances where the overarching BSG mechanic from faust interacts with the Mafia game: between turning points, we can assume that everyone's motivations are constant, but the turning points might shake things up a bit, probably in unforeseeable ways. The rules say that turning points based on game states are general knowledge, but I guess that also suggests that some players may trigger them privately, so we might not all know when some motivations might get updated.

I'm not sure whether I/we should be aiming for them/some or not.

If you feel comfortable with the status quo and have more to lose than to gain, I assume it's better to focus on your wincon above all else, since faust said that players shouldn't ever be required to play against their wincon.

For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing.

I feel like faust would probably not require story arc knowledge in order to work out whether a post-turning-point game will be a plus or a minus in a particularly game-changing way, because he did say that flavour knowledge isn't necessary to play.

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I would say your personal goal and faction wincon are the two things that really matter, and we've been told they shouldn't conflict. The show is set on a military battle star that ends up having a fleet of civilian ships around it that it has to protect, so the military are initially heroes. The series does play with the problem of overreaching military policing citizens, but they do that mostly by introducing a second base star with an abusive but effective leader (Admiral Helena Cain), who is eventually killed off. That's not to say that there aren't times where the civilian government and military command don't agree, but ultimately the leader of the military (Admiral Bill Adama) and the President (Laura Roslin) end up together. Oh, and the super-problematic other civilian I forgot to mention before is Gaius Baltar, the incredibly sleazy self-interested scientific genius who's involved in unwittingly letting the Cylons into a back door in Caprica's defence mainframe prior to the big attack that wipes out the colonies, then cheats his way off-planet, offers up his intellectual services on Galactica, and proceeds to do lots of dubious stuff, like having an imaginary cylon in his head all the time, building up an entire cult of personality that sees him become president for a time, and also escaping to the Cylon fleet to collaborate with them when he's in hot water in the human fleet. One of my friends who used to like playing Balter in the BSG game absolutely didn't want to any more after seeing the show!

Basically, every character in BSG has built-in flaws, and nobody is entirely sympathetic. I wonder if the ones each viewer finds most sympathetic are really just a reflection of what their own biases are, except that most people agree that Starbuck (Kara Thrace) is objectively the best :-) I'm sure Ashersky or Awaclus will find a way to disagree with that statement, though!

PPE everything since my last post.

[mathdude]

PPE: I don't think we should talk about turning points publicly and for the last time, please talk to me before revealing things in the thread I swear to god.

I get what you're saying.  And I'm making my own choice.  You're seeming awfully controlling, and as you can see in my earlier post, I'm saying that you don't seem to be able to trust me and I can't trust you.  So I'm not sure how helpful our QT is for me without that trust.  If I were scum, I'd ask in a scum QT (now if there's daychat, or start of night otherwise) to get trusted opinions.  I don't have that.  So I'm asking publicly here to get some opinions.  I'm not saying "reveal everything you know" - that does sound scummy.  I'm just looking for some opinions and advice.

Between the brief mention/thought of a coup/mutiny attempt by you, these controlling posts, and the lack of anything useful you've said in QT, I don't trust you.  Period.  I've shared a bit in QT, and it's been met with "I'll tell you more on day 2".  That sounds scummy to me... not in an OMGUS way, but in a "I'll take over your spot as president when you die tonight, then I don't have to tell you anything" type of way.

So for now, I trust this public chat more than anything you say in private.  I'd vote for ash or MiX at this point.  Leaving it on ash for now.

PPE 2 or 3... I'll look at the few posts and reply again shortly

[EFHW]

I like mathdude's reasponse here. @MiX, what is your rationale for why math should be consulting with you?

[MiX]

mathdude: For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing

I'm curious about math saying "me" here, instead of "town".

It's a townslip. Don't ask me why I think that.

I like mathdude's reasponse here. @MiX, what is your rationale for why math should be consulting with you?

Why not? It's a free opportunity to know my answer before the thread's. Besides, I'm there to help him make decisions, it's why the QT exists in the first place.

[Swowl]

mathdude: For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing

I'm curious about math saying "me" here, instead of "town".

It's a townslip. Don't ask me why I think that.

Why do you think that?