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[MiX]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

If this is so, then I assert that it's anti-town for whomever said they could guess the role from meta to have said so in-thread. Once it's out there, and especially once MiX has pointed out that it's findable merely by "homework", then it just seems petty not to share.

The people saying "I know what you mean but I'm not going to tell" are merely taunting and penalising people who're unfamiliar with the show by requiring them to read several hours more stuff than the rest of us to get to the same level of engagement with the game. I think we can afford to be more respectful of each other's available play time, and also of the amount of time and effort faust has undoubtedly put into this setup so that it's really unlikely to be broken by just a little bit of BSG knowledge.

Luckily for everyone, that has nothing to do with it being pro or anti town. I agree it's more welcoming to give the answer, as it is more helpful to stimulate people to look up the answer themselves. Hopefully we got the best out of both worlds here.

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

Tempted to give a d1 pass just for getting in a thematic BSG quote :-)

Sadly I believe that is scummy coming from scola. Do you think that's a reasonable take?

[LaLight]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

If this is so, then I assert that it's anti-town for whomever said they could guess the role from meta to have said so in-thread. Once it's out there, and especially once MiX has pointed out that it's findable merely by "homework", then it just seems petty not to share.

The people saying "I know what you mean but I'm not going to tell" are merely taunting and penalising people who're unfamiliar with the show by requiring them to read several hours more stuff than the rest of us to get to the same level of engagement with the game. I think we can afford to be more respectful of each other's available play time, and also of the amount of time and effort faust has undoubtedly put into this setup so that it's really unlikely to be broken by just a little bit of BSG knowledge.

I agree and vote: ADK (it's not a vote it's how I would vote)

[scolapasta]

I have a small amount of absolutely non-concrete anything information that gives LL a day 1 pass for me.

You don't really have a choice, since you can't vote for him today.

Yeah this was basically my point.

[scolapasta]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

If this is so, then I assert that it's anti-town for whomever said they could guess the role from meta to have said so in-thread. Once it's out there, and especially once MiX has pointed out that it's findable merely by "homework", then it just seems petty not to share.

The people saying "I know what you mean but I'm not going to tell" are merely taunting and penalising people who're unfamiliar with the show by requiring them to read several hours more stuff than the rest of us to get to the same level of engagement with the game. I think we can afford to be more respectful of each other's available play time, and also of the amount of time and effort faust has undoubtedly put into this setup so that it's really unlikely to be broken by just a little bit of BSG knowledge.

I was the one who first said I could guess the role from the flavor; my intention was to reveal it (I agree, no point in not sharing it), but I did want to at least spur some conversation first. Which it did, so yay for me?

[scolapasta]

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

Tempted to give a d1 pass just for getting in a thematic BSG quote :-)

Sadly I believe that is scummy coming from scola. Do you think that's a reasonable take?

Scummy just for quoting (my favorite quote) from the show? Weird.

And why "sadly"?

[MiX]

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

Tempted to give a d1 pass just for getting in a thematic BSG quote :-)

Sadly I believe that is scummy coming from scola. Do you think that's a reasonable take?

Scummy just for quoting (my favorite quote) from the show? Weird.

And why "sadly"?

I think scum!you is more likely to do non-game actions than town!you. Not sure I can explain it better than that.

Sadly because it's a bad thing to scumread for, as it's just...fun to do, and because I'm currently townreading you.

I have a small amount of absolutely non-concrete anything information that gives LL a day 1 pass for me.

You don't really have a choice, since you can't vote for him today.

Yeah this was basically my point.

Just because we can't vote for LL doesn't mean we can't have a read on him. Although it would be nice to have reads on other people!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

If this is so, then I assert that it's anti-town for whomever said they could guess the role from meta to have said so in-thread. Once it's out there, and especially once MiX has pointed out that it's findable merely by "homework", then it just seems petty not to share.

The people saying "I know what you mean but I'm not going to tell" are merely taunting and penalising people who're unfamiliar with the show by requiring them to read several hours more stuff than the rest of us to get to the same level of engagement with the game. I think we can afford to be more respectful of each other's available play time, and also of the amount of time and effort faust has undoubtedly put into this setup so that it's really unlikely to be broken by just a little bit of BSG knowledge.

I was not trying to taunt anyone, I was trying to stop information from being revealed that I really didn't think should be revealed

[mathdude]

So let me get the big idea straight...

We are all either human or cylon but as far as I can tell, none of us currently knows which even we are ourselves, let alone others. But this doesn't seem to matter, at least not yet.

We are all either civilian or military. As president, I'm civilian. This distinction wil likely have effects on the game (e.g. if I'm exiled and incoming VP is military, it triggers a turning point). But this isn't the typical mafia game alignments of mafia or town.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

Also, we each have a character, with a character arc that can affect things. Whether they have abilities or other goals in mind, this adds complexity.

On top of that, I also have a role of president with additional effects (such as choosing from the deck). And MiX is VP. But those seem to be the only extra roles (at least right now).

Can someone either confirm or correct me that these are the basic things I need to pull out of game intro, as compared to a normal game.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So let me get the big idea straight...

We are all either human or cylon but as far as I can tell, none of us currently knows which even we are ourselves, let alone others. But this doesn't seem to matter, at least not yet.

We are all either civilian or military. As president, I'm civilian. This distinction wil likely have effects on the game (e.g. if I'm exiled and incoming VP is military, it triggers a turning point). But this isn't the typical mafia game alignments of mafia or town.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

Also, we each have a character, with a character arc that can affect things. Whether they have abilities or other goals in mind, this adds complexity.

On top of that, I also have a role of president with additional effects (such as choosing from the deck). And MiX is VP. But those seem to be the only extra roles (at least right now).

Can someone either confirm or correct me that these are the basic things I need to pull out of game intro, as compared to a normal game.

That all seems about correct, except I don't know if certain if everyone does not know if they're a cylon

[MiX]

So let me get the big idea straight...

We are all either human or cylon but as far as I can tell, none of us currently knows which even we are ourselves, let alone others. But this doesn't seem to matter, at least not yet.

We are all either civilian or military. As president, I'm civilian. This distinction wil likely have effects on the game (e.g. if I'm exiled and incoming VP is military, it triggers a turning point). But this isn't the typical mafia game alignments of mafia or town.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

Also, we each have a character, with a character arc that can affect things. Whether they have abilities or other goals in mind, this adds complexity.

On top of that, I also have a role of president with additional effects (such as choosing from the deck). And MiX is VP. But those seem to be the only extra roles (at least right now).

Can someone either confirm or correct me that these are the basic things I need to pull out of game intro, as compared to a normal game.

As compared to a "normal" game, there is also the fact that this is Role Madness; so expect everyone to have a bunch of powers. But I think everything you said is correct.

There can also be non-human-aligned non-cylon-aligned players, as third parties. Or not, but these are pretty common in RMMs.

[WestCoastDidds]

Holy smokes! I’ve been out of town and totally spaced on time.

Hi hi hi hi hi!

[A Drowned Kernel]

out of town

Scumslip!

[WestCoastDidds]

out of town

Scumslip!

Ha! It was my first post-vaccine trip to see our kid in college. Spring break! Here is what I know.... I am not yet at ease around groups of people. That is going to take awhile.

I’m caught up now. Quick takes:

Thanks, Space, for reminding me about Helo. I haven’t played the game (should we?) but I watched the series early in the pandemic after I finished Voyager and Picard. I don’t like the half the people know things, either. It does feel like taunting to me, even if it’s not mean spirited. But I know I’m a tender heart.

Hi Swowl! I’ve missed playing with you! Scola! I’ve missed you, too! Mathdude! Thanks for coming back! Awaclus! Jack! My codenames homies! It’s good to see you! MiX, Space, EFHW, Ash, Dylan, Robz...long time, no see. xoxo

LaLight! Hi friend! ADK! Hooray!

So, I’ve seen the show but it’s been awhile. I’ll need to refresh, I think.

[ashersky]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

[ashersky]

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.

Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

[ashersky]

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

[ashersky]

Also, MiX being a mafia partner is literally only one of very few reasons to ever choose MiX to be VP.  (Masons would be another, off the top of my head).

vote: MiX

[MiX]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

It seems only natural, knowing the town alignment flavor name.

Would this include yourself?

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.

Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

Not really...wouldn't scum use it to find out about town people's roles? Sounds like a great way to make a fakeclaim.

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

I have answered this: I believe that civilian/military are strongly related to the character. But they aren't necessarily related to alignment (or to the species, of course).

Also, MiX being a mafia partner is literally only one of very few reasons to ever choose MiX to be VP.  (Masons would be another, off the top of my head).

vote: MiX

It's literally one of the reasons, yes. I am also literally my alignment, and math also literally picked me. Do you scumread math, and if so, why?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

If I was playing a WWII themed game were some players were civilians and some were military and that fact was independent of alignment, I would assume MacArthur was military. If I received that PM, I guess I would assume that either the GM was doing something very odd with the flavor or the game was bastard

The confusion that I think needs to be cleared up with the "human/cylon" thing is that the terms are being used in this game to refer to two aspects of people's roles, their alignment and their "species". A player's species could be Cylon but their alignment could be human and vice-versa. If you want to go back to the WWII analogy, imagine a game where players have alignments of Allies and Axis as well as "nationalities" that are independent. So you could have a character that was "German" but whose alignment was "Allies"

[EFHW]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

I assumed that was the opposite of humsn-aligned and wouldn't be surprised if others did too.

[ashersky]

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

If I was playing a WWII themed game were some players were civilians and some were military and that fact was independent of alignment, I would assume MacArthur was military. If I received that PM, I guess I would assume that either the GM was doing something very odd with the flavor or the game was bastard

The confusion that I think needs to be cleared up with the "human/cylon" thing is that the terms are being used in this game to refer to two aspects of people's roles, their alignment and their "species". A player's species could be Cylon but their alignment could be human and vice-versa. If you want to go back to the WWII analogy, imagine a game where players have alignments of Allies and Axis as well as "nationalities" that are independent. So you could have a character that was "German" but whose alignment was "Allies"

Bolding the issue.

There are stuff related to our roles.  There is human OR cylon, irrespective of alignment.  There is military OR civilian, irrespective of alignment.  And there is a flavor name.

Do all three of these need to match?  As explained by others, since plenty of Cylons don't know they are Cylons in the show, no issues there.  But man, it's hard to be in the military and not know it.

I just googled "BSG wiki" and clicked the first link, then scrolled to the first character that appeared, which was Kara Thrace.  Per the wiki, Kara was a Viper pilot (whatever that is) in the Colonial Fleet.  That would make Kara Thrace a member of the military.

If a player's PM assigned them both Kara and "civilian," what does that mean?  What does it say about the setup?  What does it mean for how we understand claims?

[ashersky]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

I assumed that was the opposite of humsn-aligned and wouldn't be surprised if others did too.

I assume nothing.  Things are complicated enough.  Until things are mod-confirmed, seems best to assume anything is possible.  Couldn't it just as easily be "Caprica-aligned" or "One True God-aligned" (based on the same wiki I found and clicking on Cylons)?

Seeming too sure it is "Cylon-aligned" is a mafia tell.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

If I was playing a WWII themed game were some players were civilians and some were military and that fact was independent of alignment, I would assume MacArthur was military. If I received that PM, I guess I would assume that either the GM was doing something very odd with the flavor or the game was bastard

The confusion that I think needs to be cleared up with the "human/cylon" thing is that the terms are being used in this game to refer to two aspects of people's roles, their alignment and their "species". A player's species could be Cylon but their alignment could be human and vice-versa. If you want to go back to the WWII analogy, imagine a game where players have alignments of Allies and Axis as well as "nationalities" that are independent. So you could have a character that was "German" but whose alignment was "Allies"

Bolding the issue.

There are stuff related to our roles.  There is human OR cylon, irrespective of alignment.  There is military OR civilian, irrespective of alignment.  And there is a flavor name.

Do all three of these need to match?  As explained by others, since plenty of Cylons don't know they are Cylons in the show, no issues there.  But man, it's hard to be in the military and not know it.

I just googled "BSG wiki" and clicked the first link, then scrolled to the first character that appeared, which was Kara Thrace.  Per the wiki, Kara was a Viper pilot (whatever that is) in the Colonial Fleet.  That would make Kara Thrace a member of the military.

If a player's PM assigned them both Kara and "civilian," what does that mean?  What does it say about the setup?  What does it mean for how we understand claims?

Is this just a hypothetical? If so, I would say we should cross that bridge when we come to it

[ashersky]

Safe to assume it isn't, given how much I'm asking about it.

[Awaclus]

Safe to assume it isn't, given how much I'm asking about it.

I assume nothing. Things are complicated enough.