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[MiX]

This is a great example of don't lie as town.

Or as scum.

[EFHW]

This is a great example of don't lie as town.

The lie in this case would be when he said  that he thought about the first vote at all.

[EFHW]

Vote: EFHW

I remembered that Swowl wanted us to vote in a seperate line now, I'll try to keep that in mind.

You changed your mind about Joseph again?

[SpaceAnemone]

Well all the people that didn't hammer that X-1 seem a but townier

Huh, I was just awol rather than deliberately refraining from voting. TBH, I agree with the people pointing out that you're quite likely just to have made the error. I also think that Dylan's post calling out your inconsistency at #331 is spot on. However, I also think you're more likely even as town to pretend the error didn't happen and just brush it off rather than owning it and giving everyone some insight into what you had actually meant. So overall I'm meh on you still.

[MiX]

Vote: EFHW

I remembered that Swowl wanted us to vote in a seperate line now, I'll try to keep that in mind.

You changed your mind about Joseph again?

Not sure. All I know is you're scum now.

Well all the people that didn't hammer that X-1 seem a but townier

Huh, I was just awol rather than deliberately refraining from voting. TBH, I agree with the people pointing out that you're quite likely just to have made the error. I also think that Dylan's post calling out your inconsistency at #331 is spot on. However, I also think you're more likely even as town to pretend the error didn't happen and just brush it off rather than owning it and giving everyone some insight into what you had actually meant. So overall I'm meh on you still.

I disagree with this analysis on town!Joseph. But I have to admit I could be wrong...

Town post, however.

[SpaceAnemone]

My vote counter gives me this as the current vote count:

Glooble (2): A Drowned Kernel, SpaceAnemone
EFHW (2): Joseph2302, MiX
Galzria (1): WestCoastDidds
Joseph2302 (5): Galzria, Dylan32, Eevee, Glooble, Chairs
WestCoastDidds (1): Robz888
Chairs (1): faust
MiX (1): EFHW

I think Joseph was at 6 votes between #339 and #345, but was not hammered.

[Galzria]

This is a great example of don't lie as town.

The lie in this case would be when he said  that he thought about the first vote at all.

The lie, or mistake, aside, Joseph said he bought into a "X, Y or Z" theory. He then removed himself as Z, and said that scum must be between "X and Y". He then voted for X. Without any additional reasoning behind that vote. And he never even commented on Y. Whether Y is Glooble or Dylan.

That's the basis. Now, since then, he has claimed that:

A: Glooble (who is in fact neither X nor Y) was townie for other reasons, and thus why he wasn't really interested in voting him over EFHW (this is in response to me - and my mistake in not checking the initial erroneous claim):

What’s the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Well Glooble has had one of these random wagons on them  and that makes me feel better about them (because it does seem to me like people are just piling onto whoever gets a vote or 2)

B: That he wasn't concerned with Glooble being in the group at all because he, well, in fact, isn't:

What’s the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Yes this is why I wasn't on Glooble
And as for Dylan, they've not made many posts for me to analyse right now

Although this post seems more towny than EFHW's vote for anyone post

PPE: 1

And through all of that, his best justification for his EFHW vote was...:

Wait, sorry, there never was one.

Don't plan to move my vote.

[SpaceAnemone]

I’m still playing catch up a bit....but my quick takes are that it’s odd to me that Jospeh isn’t doing more in terms of defense. I get that this is priority 100, but X-2.....

EFHW and MiX are playing their own game. It’s not distracting, necessarily, but it’s not engaging with much beyond one another so it’s generating posts without much relevant content. It’s maybe too laid back for one to be scum because they aren’t trying to convince anyone else, but still.

I wanted to comment on this one as I read it, because I thought WCD characterised my difficulty at really feeling like I could engage with the EFHW-MiX microanalysis. I put it down to me just not having "clicked" with the game yet, since that's a common phenomenon to me, and it was nice to see it couched in a way that explained why it might not be the more engage-with-able thing ever. I was kind of surprised how much negative feedback Didds got over it when I read on, though.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.5:

Joseph (5): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, chairs
Glooble (2): ADK, Space
EFHW (2): Joseph, MiX
WCD (1):  Robz888
Galrzria (1): WCD
MiX (1): EFHW
chairs (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 30th at 10pm Forum Time. That is just over 1 day from the time of this post!!!


*** Vote Count 1.4 has been updated. The only error was that EFHW had unvoted from WCD. There has been no missed hammer. 

[Dylan32]

So I was mildly surprised by how spread out the votes are outside of the Joseph wagon.

Unrelated to the game, but I can't help but chuckle anytime I notice Swowl's signature. Possibly the single most memorable mafia moment of my life haha.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's late and I have a headache, so while it wasn't long, I'm going to tl;dr my last post for clarity on the salient point.

I pointed out that Galz messed up the group of people who townread ADK back to back to back in trying to read Joseph. Joseph said Glooble not really being in that group explained why he wasn't suspicious of Glooble, but Joseph was originally the first person to put Glooble in that group to begin with by mistake, so he literally was just caught in a lie regarding his motives behind his reads/actions.

It was late and I made a mistake. Everything I said about Glooble and Dylan was what I thought, the fact I temporarily forgot which one of them was on the set of people- so what? Mistakes happen

I had about 100 things on yesterday, and this game really was priority 100

PPE: 1

Sure, the original mistake is totally NAI and mistakes happen, I get that and wouldn't try to make a case out of it. But after I pointed out the mistake, you said that glooble not actually being in that group originally is why you weren't on glooble the same way you were on EFHW. That couldn't have been true, because until I pointed out the mistake, multiple people including you thought glooble was in that group. So the mistake is totally fair, but the claim that glooble not being in that group was the reason you weren't voting or suspicious of them doesn't hold up since you thought they were. You could have made a mistake and then given a different reason for reading glooble the same way, and I wouldn't have a thing to say other than is town or scum more likely to make a mistake like this, and in fact someone else already brought that up. But in this post...

What’s the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Yes this is why I wasn't on Glooble
And as for Dylan, they've not made many posts for me to analyse right now

Although this post seems more towny than EFHW's vote for anyone post

PPE: 1

... you explicitly claim that a correct understanding of the facts (specifically, knowing that glooble was not in that group) was the reason you weren't on them, when it's documented that you didn't realize that.  Which means you were just making up a reason after the fact rather than truthfully explaining your motives.  If you instead said, "Oh, I messed that up, you're right that I should have had glooble under suspicion based on that, too" or "Oh, now my thoughts towards glooble as it relates to that group now apply to Dylan instead" or a pretty big variety of possible responses actually, you would have acted consistently with realizing you made a mistake and adjusting accordingly, but you didn't. You described yourself as having acted in a way that you only could have if you hadn't made a mistake to begin with.

Maybe I'm giving Joseph too much benefit of the doubt, but I originally read his "this is why I wasn't on Glooble" as meaning "I wasn't voting for glooble because I had his and Dylan's posts confused in my head", not as "I knew glooble was outside the group all along"

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m still playing catch up a bit....but my quick takes are that it’s odd to me that Jospeh isn’t doing more in terms of defense. I get that this is priority 100, but X-2.....

EFHW and MiX are playing their own game. It’s not distracting, necessarily, but it’s not engaging with much beyond one another so it’s generating posts without much relevant content. It’s maybe too laid back for one to be scum because they aren’t trying to convince anyone else, but still.

I wanted to comment on this one as I read it, because I thought WCD characterised my difficulty at really feeling like I could engage with the EFHW-MiX microanalysis. I put it down to me just not having "clicked" with the game yet, since that's a common phenomenon to me, and it was nice to see it couched in a way that explained why it might not be the more engage-with-able thing ever. I was kind of surprised how much negative feedback Didds got over it when I read on, though.

Right? I mean it’s easy to sheep the IC, but it was a quick, weird piling on. In retrospect,
Vote: EFHW

[EFHW]

I unvoted you, remember? And I had reasons for my vote, one of which turned out to be a misunderstanding.  Do we have your full attention?

[chairs]

Woo I'm back at a computer!
Exhausted, but at least now I can read posts while I post, instead of just going "okay what did I feel about X Y Z again?" while my daughter goes "DADDY I CAN MAKE THE MAN PARACHUTE"

[faust]

Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

[MiX]

Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

The claims are a crapshoot and I think it's more likely for scum!Joseph to do that than otherwise.

That felt pro-town and like what town!chairs would've done in that situation.

[faust]

Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

The claims are a crapshoot and I think it's more likely for scum!Joseph to do that than otherwise.

That felt pro-town and like what town!chairs would've done in that situation.

How was it pro-town?

[MiX]

Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

The claims are a crapshoot and I think it's more likely for scum!Joseph to do that than otherwise.

That felt pro-town and like what town!chairs would've done in that situation.

How was it pro-town?

It helped create a bunch of reactions to the Didds wagon, and a way for people to interact with Didds voters that aren't the IC. At least I think my reaction to it wasn't NAI.

[EFHW]

unvote

I don't think MiX would have said this as scum (second comment below):

Mixy, it seems clear you need to make the MiXian comment your new sig. You've officially been Mixing here long enough to have a spice blend of your own.

Sure, I'll add it when this game's over. I just really like the current one.

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

Yes I do, and I wish we were.

[MiX]

unvote

I don't think MiX would have said this as scum (second comment below):

Mixy, it seems clear you need to make the MiXian comment your new sig. You've officially been Mixing here long enough to have a spice blend of your own.

Sure, I'll add it when this game's over. I just really like the current one.

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

Yes I do, and I wish we were.

Why not? What made you look at that now and say it's townie compared to when I first said it?

[EFHW]

I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX

[EFHW]

unvote

I don't think MiX would have said this as scum (second comment below):

Mixy, it seems clear you need to make the MiXian comment your new sig. You've officially been Mixing here long enough to have a spice blend of your own.

Sure, I'll add it when this game's over. I just really like the current one.

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

Yes I do, and I wish we were.

Why not? What made you look at that now and say it's townie compared to when I first said it?

It would suggest that scum!you were unhappy with your partners, which is bad for teamwork and unnecessarily hurtful. From now on, this situation will be WIFOM, of course.

As for why now, I knew I could be wrong about you, OMGUS and all that, so I went over things again.  I was also wondering if having just been partners is making us paranoid about each other.  I've had that feeling before.

[EFHW]

I unvoted you, remember? And I had reasons for my vote, one of which turned out to be a misunderstanding.  Do we have your full attention?

I'm sorry, this was really not nice of me.

[MiX]

As for why now, I knew I could be wrong about you, OMGUS and all that, so I went over things again.  I was also wondering if having just been partners is making us paranoid about each other.  I've had that feeling before.

It is, as anyone that has noticed we're going at each other basically all of D1 can tell.

I don't think I'll get a better read than "you look like you're scum, and you're entertaining me so you don't get exiled" D1. Which is disappointing, I'm usually better than that.

I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX

Do you townread Glooble Dylan and Joseph then? Otherwise, if what ADK said might be true, then we should follow up on that first, right?

[faust]

Why not? What made you look at that now and say it's townie compared to when I first said it?

It would suggest that scum!you were unhappy with your partners, which is bad for teamwork and unnecessarily hurtful. From now on, this situation will be WIFOM, of course.

As for why now, I knew I could be wrong about you, OMGUS and all that, so I went over things again.  I was also wondering if having just been partners is making us paranoid about each other.  I've had that feeling before.

I mean, I would not have been offended at all if MiX was my partner and said that, and more importantly I don't think scum!MiX would decide to not post something like this based on the reasoning you laid out. (Which I do not mean to say I think MiX is inconsiderate, but rather that he'd assume, as is reasonable in a game of mafia, that his partners wouldn't take whatever MiX posts in thread as his true opinion.)

Also I think I posted in scum chats before that I wish I could have been scum with ashersky, because I never have been and imagine it would be a load of fun. Sorry to anyone who might have been hurt by this; I did not mean to say I don't enjoy being scum with you.