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[MiX]

Eh, I will clutter the thread (been doing that enough already anyway)

Dylan is very wrong Town.

Like Glooble!

Hey now, I was right about Joth, so I'm doing better than Glooble by default this game, so there's no need for name calling! Haha

You don't want to be town?

Eh, I will clutter the thread (been doing that enough already anyway)

Dylan is very wrong Town.

Like Glooble!

Hey now, I was right about Joth, so I'm doing better than Glooble by default this game, so there's no need for name calling! Haha

Hey, man, let the dead man have his fun, I have so few opportunities for name calling left!

You have a whole day though.

[Dylan32]

But I will admit, I could be wrong town. Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last lol. If I am, I'll go back and read and look at what you said and take it more seriously.

Eh, I will clutter the thread (been doing that enough already anyway)

Dylan is very wrong Town.

Like Glooble!

Hey now, I was right about Joth, so I'm doing better than Glooble by default this game, so there's no need for name calling! Haha

You don't want to be town?

I mean, I almost wish I wasn't. My winning percentage as scum is way higher than town, but alas my 2 game in a row streak was broken this game. Anyway though, if I was scum, you better believe I wouldn't dispute his comment, even in jest lol.

[WestCoastDidds]

If WCD isn’t town now, then I need to throw in the towel and retire on ever being able to read her properly.

After all these games with her, I have exactly 1 town tell for her that hasn’t failed yet, and she did it this game.

I am willing to stake my reputation on that. (*winces*)

Ah, Eddie. I love you, too.

[pingpongsam]

Re PPS: I could be wrong, because I don't remember ever actually seeing a governor act, but I didn't think they got to see a flip before making their decision. Like the idea of a pardon is that the executive ignores the true innocence/guilt of the subject and says you are free. Think about it, a governor that gets to know the flip before their decision creates 2 ICs the moment they use their power (barring counterclaim), and I don't think that's what happens.

Then I agree, the way Eddie went from softclaiming scum to claiming again to be town is governor bait of the worst variety.

[Uncleeurope]

Fair.

Wrong, but fair.

I had no reason to think there would be a timeline-limited governor (still don’t think that’s what’s happening) because abilities are allowed to go across timelines, and it would be weird if Governor was an exception (But maybe Day abilities are twice as limited as night abilities?)

I figured I may as well have a little fun.

But whatevs.

You guys all think I’m Town now anyway, so what’s it matter? [Pubby Glasses]

[ashersky]

There is nothing in Uncle's actions post hammer/pre twilight that makes me think in any way that he would have flipped green.  There are a range of emotions that go through an exiled towny -- spite is very rarely one that we should let take the lead.

I think he would have said as much as possible about his power, his QT, his reads, whatever, to make sure we had all the information possible.

Claiming mafia on hammer to spite the rest of town?  That's only funny rarely, and usually is immediately followed up with a "just kidding!" and then we get a flip.

[ashersky]

Hyper hammering me was the towniest thing he has done all game, genuinely shook me.

Isn’t gut is rarely wrong, though, so there you go.

Your lack of activity today was hugely scummy in my eyes, but I have decided I’m not allowed to use that read, so there ya go.

I trust Awa, even if I have no right to. (Mainly because Hyper is so evil in my eyes and it can’t be two of them)

I find it likely PPS is scum by mandatory rule.

I genuinely TR Glooble, but (and I cant stress this enough) I have been wrong about him before.

I think PPS/Cube has a clean look to it.

Even looking at cubes random PPS thing with me and early today when PPS “saw what I was laying down about Cube”

Both very partners things to say/do.

Eh...

A lot less confident than I was about EFHW that one all those times, but enough that ima just write that on the stone and move on.

If WCD isn’t town now, then I need to throw in the towel and retire on ever being able to read her properly.

After all these games with her, I have exactly 1 town tell for her that hasn’t failed yet, and she did it this game.

I am willing to stake my reputation on that. (*winces*)

Also, you not posting today was scummy.

This is a non-town scrambling to try to make some sort of towny-looking post to backtrack.  But this post is not towny or towny-looking.  It is a bunch of nothing words with no value to remaining town members.

The ONLY useful line here is calling out MiX.

Where is the fuller explanation of your role?  Where is the fuller explanation of anything in your QT?  (That second thing you should have been doing from the start if you were actually town.). Where are your final thoughts that we must have from a player we're about to trust forever? 

Instead we get "my gut is rarely wrong, joke read on Awa, joke read on PPS, hedging on Glooble, hedging on EFHW, joke on WCD."

MiX not posting much is bad.  Your mentioning it actually makes him seem like your partner.  That's my takeaway.  If he is, you were better off not posting at all.

[ashersky]

I don't feel like waiting 24 hours . Or admitting that ashersky's scumslip argument was correct, though I think it was, and did before the hammer, too. ash - what percentage of the time do you think your scumslips arguments turn out to be correct?

I think they are 100% always correct in my mind.  I think the better question is what percentage of the time do I think non-town actually commit the slips.  And that is a high number, because I believe it is much harder than we profess to maintain a lie for so long, even when it's just typing on a forum.  So if we pay close enough attention (and most important, have the information we need to recognize the slip), we would probably find them in almost all games, save those rare perfect games by non-town players.

When I make the arguments themselves, I probably believe my own cases around half the time?  Sometimes it is to pressure a player, sometimes it is to see others' reactions.

[ashersky]

Well, I guess I did one too many scum slips there, haha. Sorry, team.

Hope you have luck finding my partners.

Wouldn’t change how I played, that though.

This is the immediate reaction to being hammered.

I don't think this reads like a joke, nor did anyone else at the time.  I think looking at who was willing to support the joke theory with little argument is worthwhile for partner hunting -- even if Uncle didn't immediately realize that twilight might mean something, a partner could have .

This sounds more to me like a "yeah, you got me, but I'm still the better player and I'm still right, you just got lucky" kind of spite.

[Uncleeurope]

I guess it depends on if you think I am a joking kind of guy or a spiteful kind of guy.

[Uncleeurope]

My role works like this (even though you told me to stop telling you this)

I am a 2 shot poison doctor (it works on the night they would have been targeted or the night they would have died, woooo)

If I use both shots on someone, they die.

[Uncleeurope]

It’s weird how confident people are about me.

[scolapasta]

Yeah, I don't buy the "I'm sorry scum team", "no wait, I'm town" either.

Also the 2 shot poison doctor in a game with alternating timelines also doesn't seem very practical. assuming I understand it correctly: N1 target player X, they are saved; N2 target Player Y, they are saved; N3 target Player X (or Y), they die.

(and again, it'd really be N1,N3,N5, etc).

Also if that's true, why not target someone N1 to save them? if they're town great! If later you think they're scum, you've already primed them.

And ash basically said this but read all posts between exile and beginning of twilight: no revealing anything useful. Then suddenly after twilight? Bah!

[Uncleeurope]

I can never target 3 people with my ability, I am confused as to why you are confused.

Like this:

It’s N1 - I target Cube (one of the two shots is spent)
N2 - I wait
N3 I target cube, they die (second of two shots is spent I now have no ability)

That’s how that works.

[scolapasta]

The thing I'm trying to figure out is eddie's twice (at least) read of WCD as town, as she is my top scum read for forwards. So is this a trying to try to create suspicion on town WCD? or WIFOM it should create suspicion so gives her some twon cred, when she's scum? I don't know.

Also, there is some chance I guess Eddie is town. No way enough to reverse the exile, if there is a governor. (I also suspect that maybe the twilight power might be something different than governor? I haven't played enough to know what other twilight powers exist)

[scolapasta]

I can never target 3 people with my ability, I am confused as to why you are confused.

Like this:

It’s N1 - I target Cube (one of the two shots is spent)
N2 - I wait
N3 I target cube, they die (second of two shots is spent I now have no ability)

That’s how that works.

My confusion I guess is lack of experience. like why is this called poison doctor and not just poisoner?

Off to the wiki I go.

[MiX]

The thing I'm trying to figure out is eddie's twice (at least) read of WCD as town, as she is my top scum read for forwards. So is this a trying to try to create suspicion on town WCD? or WIFOM it should create suspicion so gives her some twon cred, when she's scum? I don't know.

Also, there is some chance I guess Eddie is town. No way enough to reverse the exile, if there is a governor. (I also suspect that maybe the twilight power might be something different than governor? I haven't played enough to know what other twilight powers exist)

Math literally had a twilight power.

I can never target 3 people with my ability, I am confused as to why you are confused.

Like this:

It’s N1 - I target Cube (one of the two shots is spent)
N2 - I wait
N3 I target cube, they die (second of two shots is spent I now have no ability)

That’s how that works.

My confusion I guess is lack of experience. like why is this called poison doctor and not just poisoner?

Off to the wiki I go.

It's, uh, "insulin doctor", as uncle called it. And it's made up.

[scolapasta]

The thing I'm trying to figure out is eddie's twice (at least) read of WCD as town, as she is my top scum read for forwards. So is this a trying to try to create suspicion on town WCD? or WIFOM it should create suspicion so gives her some twon cred, when she's scum? I don't know.

Also, there is some chance I guess Eddie is town. No way enough to reverse the exile, if there is a governor. (I also suspect that maybe the twilight power might be something different than governor? I haven't played enough to know what other twilight powers exist)

Math literally had a twilight power.

sure. that's why I think there could be other non governor twilight powers. Not sure I get your point.

I can never target 3 people with my ability, I am confused as to why you are confused.

Like this:

It’s N1 - I target Cube (one of the two shots is spent)
N2 - I wait
N3 I target cube, they die (second of two shots is spent I now have no ability)

That’s how that works.

My confusion I guess is lack of experience. like why is this called poison doctor and not just poisoner?

Off to the wiki I go.

It's, uh, "insulin doctor", as uncle called it. And it's made up.

OK, fine. But why would insulin doctor be a killing power? that could just be called Modified Poisoner instead? (i.e. since Poisoner is already a standard role)

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, I don't buy the "I'm sorry scum team", "no wait, I'm town" either.

Also the 2 shot poison doctor in a game with alternating timelines also doesn't seem very practical. assuming I understand it correctly: N1 target player X, they are saved; N2 target Player Y, they are saved; N3 target Player X (or Y), they die.

(and again, it'd really be N1,N3,N5, etc).

Also if that's true, why not target someone N1 to save them? if they're town great! If later you think they're scum, you've already primed them.

And ash basically said this but read all posts between exile and beginning of twilight: no revealing anything useful. Then suddenly after twilight? Bah!

I revealed nothing new after twilight.

I pointed at MIX and that’s about it, I think...? I can’t remember.

I went on and on about reads and theories. I don’t know what you want from me.

[Uncleeurope]

I can make someone overdose on insulin.

1 heals poison

2 overdoses.

[pingpongsam]

WTF is going on? Either Eddie is town because he's being awfully persistent or he's scum and knows about some twilight thing. If so, I hope the twilight thing is in Galz' hands. That would just be beautiful.

[Uncleeurope]

This is definitely a weird amount of time to commit to a bit when you are a dead man.

[scolapasta]

This is definitely a weird amount of time to commit to a bit when you are a dead man.

I mean what else are you going to do?

[Uncleeurope]

This is definitely a weird amount of time to commit to a bit when you are a dead man.

I mean what else are you going to do?

*shrugs*

[ashersky]

My role works like this (even though you told me to stop telling you this)

I am a 2 shot poison doctor (it works on the night they would have been targeted or the night they would have died, woooo)

If I use both shots on someone, they die.

I can never target 3 people with my ability, I am confused as to why you are confused.

Like this:

It’s N1 - I target Cube (one of the two shots is spent)
N2 - I wait
N3 I target cube, they die (second of two shots is spent I now have no ability)

That’s how that works.

So here's the basic gist of the claim right?  Breaking it down into separate parts:

2-Shot / Poison Doctor / Vigilante

He has two shots of a power.  Let's give this a name: Inject.  The details of this specific part:
--He can "inject" one target at night.
--He can do this two times during the course of the game.
--He can only do this once per night.

Okay.  Now, what are the effects of the "inject" power?
--If, on the night a player is injected, they would have been poisoned OR would have died from poison, they will be saved.
--If, on the night a player is injected, they have previously been injected, they will die.

Those are the only two possible outcomes with actual results, right?

So, design-wise, we can thinking of it differently.  An Injector is a doctor with four modifications:
--Can only protect against certain types of kills (poison)
--Can protect on both the night of poisoning and the night of death
--Can only target a specific player once
--Can only be used twice during the game

So, it's a severely underpowered doctor.  On the flipside, it is also a type of vigilante.  An Injector is a vigilante with two modifications:
--Must successfully target the same player twice.
--Can only be used once during the game.

So, it's a blend of a 2-Shot Doctor and 1-Shot Vigilante, both of which are modified to be weakened, so much so that a normal 2-Shot Doc or 1-Shot Vig would be preferred as a choice JOAT-style.

In a normal style game, this design might make sense.  If the timelines division is applied, however, we find that the role is severely weakened.  I think so much so that it appears like a partial role, or a factional role (or roles), or a made-up role.  I prefer not to assume bad design.  In fact, this claim sounds like a mash up of JOAT powers offered either to a player or a faction.  So mafia.