Topic: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins! (Read 120064 times)

Swowl · « **on:** August 18, 2020, 12:25:57 am »

RMM58: Memento Mafia

This is a closed Set Up RMM made for 18 players.
You will find all the given game information in the following post.

MOD: Swowl
Co-Mod: LaLight

Sign Up List:
1. MiX - confirmed
2. EFHW - confirmed
3. WestCoastDidds - Killed Night 4 - Thomas Lennon, Town Doctor
4. scolapasta - confirmed
5. ~~faust~~ Eddie - Exiled Day 3 - Sammy Jenkins, Town Insulin Doctor
6. chairs - Killed Night 2 - Townsen, Town Modified Motion Detector
7. hypercube - confirmed
8. Joth - Exiled Day 2 - John G., Mafia Aligned Godfather, 1 Shot Strongman
9. Galzria/Jack Rudd - Exiled Day 4 - Natalie, Mafia 2 Shot Influencer
10. Ashersky - Killed Night 3 - John Smith, Town Activated IC
11. Glooble - confirmed
12. PPS - confirmed
13. Awaclus - confirmed
14. gkrieg - Killed Night 1 - Town Tracker
15. ~~Mathdude~~ - Exiled Day 1 - Town Veng Cop
16. Dylan - confirmed

Tags: Raptor

Game Tracker:

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information (including QT opening and closing times) is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between an exile being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the exiled player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. An exiled player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no exile.
5. Exiles occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, an exile cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, Brown and/or Purple text are reserved for the MODs. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. Players may request prods on other players if they have not posted in 24 hours. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last between 36 and 48 hours.

Swowl · « **Reply #1 on:** August 18, 2020, 12:26:21 am »

Set Up Information

GENERAL INFORMATION:
1.   This is a closed set up RMM made for 18 players.
2.   Every player in the game will be given a PR.
3.   Every Power Role Names will capture the use of the role to best extent possible.
4.   Players will flip with their alignment and Power Role Names

TIMELINE MECHANICS
1.   All players in this game will be evenly divided into 2 “Timelines” – Forward and Reverse.
2.   Every Day and Night Phase will belong to a specific Timeline – Either Forward or Reverse.
a.   During the Day, all players alive may post as usual in the game thread. However, only the players on the Active Timeline will be allowed to vote or use PRs.
b.   Additionally, players will only be allowed to vote for players on the Active Timeline.
c.   During the Night, only players on the Active Timeline will be allowed to take actions.
d.   Night actions can target any player, regardless of which Timeline they belong to.
3.   Active Timelines will begin at the Start of Day and end at the conclusion of the following Night.

TIMELINE QT MECHANICS:
1.   All players in this game will be evenly divided into 2 “Timelines” – Forward and Reverse.
2.   All players will have a private QT with a randomly determined player. ~~of the opposite timeline.~~
a.   During Night Phases, including Night 0, this QT will remain open to both the players.
b.   During Day Phases, this QT will remain open to both players.
3.   When either player from the same QT dies, it will be closed for the remainder of the game.

ACTION RESOLUTION:
1.   Standard action resolution will be followed in almost all potential instances.
2.   If your role has a unique potential to fall outside standard resolution, you will be informed.

FLAVOR:
1.   The flavor of this game will be based on the film “Memento”
2.   Knowledge of the film is not needed to play, however reading the synopsis on this Wiki page may further your enjoyment of the game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_(film)

TOWN WIN CONDITION:
1.   This is the Town Win Condition:
a.    You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.

mail-mi · « **Reply #2 on:** August 18, 2020, 01:36:45 am »

I hope you have better luck getting an 18 person game filled than I did

/in

MiX · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2020, 08:51:39 am »

Oh look, it's Hunger Games again!

/in

EFHW · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2020, 08:56:29 am »

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #5 on:** August 18, 2020, 09:24:07 am »

Yep, yep /in

faust · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2020, 09:42:07 am »

/tag

I have worries that having half the players be unable to do anything for half the game might negatively impact overall activity.

MiX · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2020, 09:51:22 am »

Is it known who's in each timeline from the start? That seems like a trivial thing to test, and seems extremely important to how the day phase works.

Do timelines swap around each end of night, or is it unknown when they do?

scolapasta · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2020, 10:18:16 am »

I don't remember sign/ing up, but I have this weird tattoo that says I did.

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #9 on:** August 18, 2020, 11:20:21 am »

Quote from: scolapasta on August 18, 2020, 10:18:16 am

I don't remember sign/ing up, but I have this weird tattoo that says I did.

yaaasssss

Swowl · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2020, 01:00:33 pm »

Quote from: faust on August 18, 2020, 09:42:07 am

/tag

I have worries that having half the players be unable to do anything for half the game might negatively impact overall activity.

assume it has been thought through

but I will tag you if you like.

Dylan32 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2020, 01:00:44 pm »

" a. During the Day, all players alive may post as usual in the game thread. However, only the players on the Active Timeline will be allowed to vote or use PRs.
b. Additionally, players will only be allowed to vote for players on the Active Timeline."

So half on the players will never be able to vote for the other half? Because if X can only vote while on the Active Timeline and can only vote for the others on said timeline, then X can never vote for someone on the other timeline.

Swowl · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2020, 01:01:50 pm »

Quote from: MiX on August 18, 2020, 09:51:22 am

Is it known who's in each timeline from the start? That seems like a trivial thing to test, and seems extremely important to how the day phase works.

Do timelines swap around each end of night, or is it unknown when they do?

Timeline announcement is trivial. But It will be announced start of Day 1.

Set up states "timelines run Start of day to end of that Night phase"

Swowl · « **Reply #13 on:** August 18, 2020, 01:03:15 pm »

Quote from: Dylan32 on August 18, 2020, 01:00:44 pm

" a. During the Day, all players alive may post as usual in the game thread. However, only the players on the Active Timeline will be allowed to vote or use PRs.
b. Additionally, players will only be allowed to vote for players on the Active Timeline."

So half on the players will never be able to vote for the other half? Because if X can only vote while on the Active Timeline and can only vote for the others on said timeline, then X can never vote for someone on the other timeline.

assume it has been thought through.

Swowl · « **Reply #14 on:** August 18, 2020, 01:09:03 pm »

Let's just call this a PSA - It is a closed set up, so I cannot promise that I can answer everything. However, I can promise that any concerns regarding balance, or just standard mechanics, have been thought through.

Absolutely not promising it all won't go to hell

but I am confident that the game will be fun, and I know LL and I have gone through and changed stuff ten times over to make sure the set up works and is fair.

So pretty much - if you have questions, please ask, I will answer what I can. I will probably just be ignoring most of the comments regarding the set up however until the game is concluded. Everything you need to know is in the OP.

MiX · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2020, 01:10:14 pm »

Can day actions target players from both timelines?

Swowl · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2020, 01:47:35 pm »

Quote from: MiX on August 18, 2020, 01:10:14 pm

Can day actions target players from both timelines?

Yes. Active only is for the “user”, the target can be anyone. The only targeting restriction is regarding voting.

cayvie · « **Reply #17 on:** August 21, 2020, 01:13:22 am »

Quote from: mail-mi on August 18, 2020, 01:36:45 am

I hope you have better luck getting an 18 person game filled than I did

/in

im doin good on bets lately so there might be some reinforcements comin

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #18 on:** August 21, 2020, 10:30:11 am »

Quote from: cayvie on August 21, 2020, 01:13:22 am

Quote from: mail-mi on August 18, 2020, 01:36:45 am
I hope you have better luck getting an 18 person game filled than I did

/in

im doin good on bets lately so there might be some reinforcements comin

❤️❤️❤️

faust · « **Reply #19 on:** August 23, 2020, 11:10:52 am »

Alrighty, /in.

Xxraptorslayer96 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 24, 2020, 11:17:35 pm »

/tag

scolapasta · « **Reply #21 on:** August 26, 2020, 03:23:31 pm »

Quote from: scolapasta on August 18, 2020, 10:18:16 am

I don't remember sign/ing up, but I have this weird tattoo that says I did.

I th/ink you may have missed this...

chairs · « **Reply #22 on:** August 26, 2020, 03:43:58 pm »

What did I get myself /into?

Dylan32 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 26, 2020, 06:14:24 pm »

Let's see if I can w/in this one.

jotheonah · « **Reply #24 on:** August 27, 2020, 09:06:45 am »

I want to sign up, but WW has me sort of shaken vis a vis super-complicated setups. Someone sell me on it.

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #25 on:** August 27, 2020, 09:20:43 am »

Quote from: jotheonah on August 27, 2020, 09:06:45 am

I want to sign up, but WW has me sort of shaken vis a vis super-complicated setups. Someone sell me on it.

I can’t sell you on the set up but I 100% know that games are better with you in them and I always look forward to playing with you. There are QT partners and you are on my short list of QT-partner faves so, you know, there’s that.

hypercube · « **Reply #26 on:** August 27, 2020, 09:28:25 am »

I'm pretty busy until mid-September but this seems kind of unlikely to start until then anyways, so /in.

Swowl · « **Reply #27 on:** August 27, 2020, 02:02:01 pm »

Quote from: jotheonah on August 27, 2020, 09:06:45 am

I want to sign up, but WW has me sort of shaken vis a vis super-complicated setups. Someone sell me on it.

it will be fun....

jotheonah · « **Reply #28 on:** August 27, 2020, 02:43:52 pm »

alright, I'm /in. It's been a while since I've seen the film...

Galzria · « **Reply #29 on:** September 12, 2020, 12:51:14 am »

Alright. Doesn't look like we're launching anytime immediately, so...

mail-mi · « **Reply #30 on:** September 12, 2020, 09:55:57 am »

Sorry, /out

jotheonah · « **Reply #31 on:** October 15, 2020, 01:52:54 pm »

uh, bump?

ashersky · « **Reply #32 on:** October 28, 2020, 10:44:21 am »

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #33 on:** October 28, 2020, 11:35:11 am »

Quote from: ashersky on October 28, 2020, 10:44:21 am

/in

Hooray!

Glooble · « **Reply #34 on:** November 18, 2020, 11:47:28 am »

/in

Still a little salty about the last game, but I guess I gotta wash that salt out of mouth somehow.

ashersky · « **Reply #35 on:** December 31, 2020, 01:51:58 am »

Is this still happening?

chairs · « **Reply #36 on:** December 31, 2020, 01:53:37 am »

Quote from: ashersky on December 31, 2020, 01:51:58 am

Is this still happening?

I'm reasonably certain it already happened... maybe? This whole thread is just us looking at flashbacks.

Swowl · « **Reply #37 on:** December 31, 2020, 03:01:37 am »

first off - lol

but it has unfortunately not yet happened :/

I am working on re-constructing it for less players.

pingpongsam · « **Reply #38 on:** March 15, 2021, 11:27:34 am »

skip wooznum · « **Reply #39 on:** April 06, 2021, 01:19:43 am »

Are there even 18 characters in memento?

Swowl · « **Reply #40 on:** April 06, 2021, 01:48:59 am »

Working on downsizing to 13 or 14. Join the game

Awaclus · « **Reply #41 on:** April 06, 2021, 04:02:57 am »

Quote from: Swowl on April 06, 2021, 01:48:59 am

Working on downsizing to 13 or 14. Join the game

/in

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #42 on:** April 06, 2021, 11:58:59 am »

Swowl · « **Reply #43 on:** April 06, 2021, 12:11:39 pm »

Cool cool cool.
It’s been a bit of a while.
Can people re confirm they are still wanting to play while i get the finishing touches off?

Need to decide the best way to launch around BSG and the Dwarf games.

MiX · « **Reply #44 on:** April 06, 2021, 12:13:56 pm »

/in (again)

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #45 on:** April 06, 2021, 01:10:30 pm »

aga/in

chairs · « **Reply #46 on:** April 06, 2021, 01:18:53 pm »

/innnn

Dylan32 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 06, 2021, 03:39:43 pm »

/out for now. I have recently decided I am incapable of playing more than one game at a time.

Swowl · « **Reply #48 on:** April 06, 2021, 04:30:45 pm »

need confirms from:

pasta
joth
hypercube
glooble
faust
ashersky

Swowl · « **Reply #49 on:** April 06, 2021, 04:31:41 pm »

also, unless there is a clamor for a 3rd game, I will probably wait until Joth's game has completed before starting this one.

mathdude · « **Reply #50 on:** April 06, 2021, 04:49:41 pm »

Quote from: Swowl on April 06, 2021, 04:31:41 pm

also, unless there is a clamor for a 3rd game, I will probably wait until Joth's game has completed before starting this one.

If you are waiting, and if there is space, then
/in

scolapasta · « **Reply #51 on:** April 06, 2021, 04:54:18 pm »

Checked mirror, still have the tattoo saying I'm /in

ashersky · « **Reply #52 on:** April 08, 2021, 12:37:48 am »

Quote from: scolapasta on April 06, 2021, 04:54:18 pm

Checked mirror, still have the tattoo saying I'm /in

You have a tattoo that says ni\?

Also, I'm still in.

faust · « **Reply #53 on:** April 08, 2021, 06:17:36 am »

I'm still in!

Swowl · « **Reply #54 on:** April 12, 2021, 08:26:04 pm »

Glooble
EFOO
Hyper
Joth

Still need confirms.

If you are out it is cool but I need to know if I have 15 or not pleaseeeeee

EFHW · « **Reply #55 on:** April 13, 2021, 12:17:10 am »

After Battlestar Galactica?

jotheonah · « **Reply #56 on:** April 13, 2021, 09:10:59 am »

I'm in

Swowl · « **Reply #57 on:** April 13, 2021, 01:47:17 pm »

Quote from: EFHW on April 13, 2021, 12:17:10 am

After Battlestar Galactica?

Yes? Or at least far enough into it when everyone is good to go.

scolapasta · « **Reply #58 on:** April 13, 2021, 01:55:57 pm »

Quote from: Swowl on April 13, 2021, 01:47:17 pm

Quote from: EFHW on April 13, 2021, 12:17:10 am
After Battlestar Galactica?

Yes? Or at least far enough into it when everyone is good to go.

Is the idea then to get this in overlapping BSG? (since BSG will have multiple seasons?) Actually, fause if you're seeing this, can you remine me/us what the expected timeline for future seasons is?

Swowl · « **Reply #59 on:** April 20, 2021, 06:25:03 pm »

Just saw on the Star Gate thread that faust is planning to leave 1-2 gap between BSG games.
The plan now is to launch this game towards the conclusion of BSG-Season1.
Let me know if there are any issues with that.

ashersky · « **Reply #60 on:** April 20, 2021, 10:04:16 pm »

No problem from my end. Can time Stargate near the end of this, if BSG Season 2 isn't starting up. Otherwise, can wait for the next break.

faust · « **Reply #61 on:** April 21, 2021, 01:32:01 am »

Ah yeah, sorry, should probably also have mentioned that here.

Dylan32 · « **Reply #62 on:** April 21, 2021, 03:03:12 pm »

If the plan is to minimize overlap with BSG 1 and BSG 2 is waiting until after this (and/or another game), then I would be back /in.

Swowl · « **Reply #63 on:** April 21, 2021, 03:43:13 pm »

faust - you good with that as a general timeline?

faust · « **Reply #64 on:** April 22, 2021, 03:18:54 am »

Quote from: Swowl on April 21, 2021, 03:43:13 pm

faust - you good with that as a general timeline?

Fine with me!

Generally, I'd only start the second season once the players involved give their go.

EFHW · « **Reply #65 on:** April 25, 2021, 11:06:27 pm »

/in if overlap is m/inimized

Swowl · « **Reply #66 on:** April 27, 2021, 03:16:37 am »

Well fuck. I guess this is starting soon then.
Signs up locked after efoo.
Timeline update tomorrow, but PMs out in a few days max.

Swowl · « **Reply #67 on:** April 27, 2021, 04:21:52 pm »

Okie dokie. With the conclusion of BSG Mafia - Season 1, this will now be starting shortly.

1. Hypercube is the only one to not confirm in some fashion thus far. I will be granting them 48 hours from now (PM sent) to get back to /in. Within that 48 hour time window (ending roughly 5pm on April 29th) I will be taking the first /in IFFFF Hypercube does not confirm... if they do, they get first ups.

2. If Hyper does not confirm and no one else /ins, the game will run as a 15 player game.

3. If Hyper or someone else does /in, the game will run as a 16 player game.

4. Because of the difference in player potential, and the fact it was originally written for 18 players (lol), I will need 2-3 days to edit after this 48 hour window.

TLDR - Let's just say PMs will be going out on Monday, May 3rd.

Swowl · « **Reply #68 on:** April 27, 2021, 04:25:25 pm »

This is what I currently have. If I am missing someone, please speak up!

Sign Up List:
1. MiX - confirmed
2. EFHW - confirmed
3. WestCoastDidds - confirmed
4. scolapasta - confirmed
5. faust - confirmed
6. chairs - confirmed
7. hypercube
8. Joth - confirmed
9. Galzria - confirmed
10. Ashersky - confirmed
11. Glooble - confirmed
12. PPS - confirmed
13. Awaclus - confirmed
14. gkrieg - confirmed
15. Mathdude - confirmed
16. Dylan - confirmed

hypercube · « **Reply #69 on:** April 27, 2021, 05:06:24 pm »

Swowl · « **Reply #70 on:** April 27, 2021, 06:39:34 pm »

Awesome!
That is 16 confirmed!
Hopefully will have PMs for confirms out by the weekend!

Thread Locked except for Tags.

PM me if you have a question.

Swowl · « **Reply #71 on:** April 29, 2021, 03:42:37 pm »

PMs *should be* going out tomorrow. If not then Saturday. That will give at least 2+ days for people to confirm and be able to start the game Monday.

Swowl · « **Reply #72 on:** May 02, 2021, 01:34:02 am »

Apologies - that took slightly longer to set up than anticipated. PMs are going out now. Game starts May 4th at 3:00pm Forum Time.

Swowl · « **Reply #73 on:** May 02, 2021, 03:52:00 pm »

Moving game to Mafia Game Thread.

PLEASE NOTE - The OP has been updated. When re-creating the game a balance change had to be made - The Timeline QTs were completely randomized instead of paired at random with a player of the opposite timeline.

Swowl · « **Reply #74 on:** May 04, 2021, 03:25:48 pm »

Where are we...? What is going on?
The Town looks around confused at one and other trying to... remember.
No one is certain of who anyone else is. Or who they are themselves.
Someone screams! They hold out there arm and there is a tattoo. It reads: "Remember, there are killers among us".

Welcome to Memento Mafia. Sorry for the wait on the launch.

Vote Count 1.0:

Not Voting (16): MiX, EFHW, WCD, scolapasta, faust, chairs, hypercube, Joth, Galzria, Ashersky, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus, gkrieg, Mathdude, Dylan

With 8 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 1 starts now and ends Tuesday, May 11th at 3:25pm Forum Time.

Today the active timeline is the REVERSE TIMELINE. We will remain in the REVERSE TIMELINE until the start of Day 2.
Only players from the currently active timeline may vote, or be voted for.

THREAD UNLOCKED!

pingpongsam · « **Reply #75 on:** May 04, 2021, 03:35:23 pm »

So like, is it a thing to not reveal which timeline you are on or what?

Also, I've been playing mafia for a couple years elsewhere and I am completely different now... really... you can trust that.

faust · « **Reply #76 on:** May 04, 2021, 03:36:58 pm »

I'm here! It's curious that we don't get to know who is in which timeline... that doesn't seem like something that can remain secret for very long.

faust · « **Reply #77 on:** May 04, 2021, 03:39:15 pm »

Of course, we could always no exile today. That seems like it has some unique advantages in this game.

scolapasta · « **Reply #78 on:** May 04, 2021, 03:47:49 pm »

Hi all!

I'm assuming if we are not active timeline and we vote it won't show up in a vote count. Or if we are voted on, it also won't show up? Or would it?

Depending on how that is handled, it would just be easier if we all just revealed. But maybe the mod will answer:

If I am not in the active timeline and I vote, will that show up as a vote in the vote count?
If I am not in the active timeline and I get voted, will that show up as a vote in the vote count?

pingpongsam · « **Reply #79 on:** May 04, 2021, 03:51:26 pm »

Quote from: scolapasta on May 04, 2021, 03:47:49 pm

Hi all!

I'm assuming if we are not active timeline and we vote it won't show up in a vote count. Or if we are voted on, it also won't show up? Or would it?

Depending on how that is handled, it would just be easier if we all just revealed. But maybe the mod will answer:

If I am not in the active timeline and I vote, will that show up as a vote in the vote count?
If I am not in the active timeline and I get voted, will that show up as a vote in the vote count?

silliness

Vote: scolapasta

is how you check these things

MiX · « **Reply #80 on:** May 04, 2021, 03:52:26 pm »

Hello everyone! I'm going to be busy for around 2 weeks from now, so don't expect much from me the first two days.

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 04, 2021, 03:35:23 pm

So like, is it a thing to not reveal which timeline you are on or what?

Also, I've been playing mafia for a couple years elsewhere and I am completely different now... really... you can trust that.

I think we should, otherwise we basically give up D1. I'll start: I'm Reverse Timeline.

I'll trust you're not the same pps when I see it. I'm looking forward to it.

I was going to vote, when I realized it would just out that person's timeline even if they don't want to. I can't even RVS

PPE: Maybe he can't?

jotheonah · « **Reply #81 on:** May 04, 2021, 03:57:26 pm »

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 04, 2021, 03:35:23 pm

So like, is it a thing to not reveal which timeline you are on or what?

Also, I've been playing mafia for a couple years elsewhere and I am completely different now... really... you can trust that.

He didn't say PINL so, I don't think we can trust it.

Also what is metas anyway.

jotheonah · « **Reply #82 on:** May 04, 2021, 03:58:20 pm »

I have to say, some people might find it frustrating, but to me the idea that for half the game I don't have to vote is really appealing. Takes the pressure off.

I'm sure this attitude will change as the game progresses.

Dylan32 · « **Reply #83 on:** May 04, 2021, 04:36:43 pm »

Quote from: jotheonah on May 04, 2021, 03:58:20 pm

I have to say, some people might find it frustrating, but to me the idea that for half the game I don't have to vote is really appealing. Takes the pressure off.

I'm sure this attitude will change as the game progresses.

As someone on the forward timeline, I feel the same way, but specifically regarding D1.

Glooble · « **Reply #84 on:** May 04, 2021, 07:07:55 pm »

Well, I agree with MiX - holding back helps scum way more than town.

I'm in the Reverse timeline.

mathdude · « **Reply #85 on:** May 04, 2021, 08:33:44 pm »

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 04, 2021, 03:35:23 pm

So like, is it a thing to not reveal which timeline you are on or what?

Also, I've been playing mafia for a couple years elsewhere and I am completely different now... really... you can trust that.

The way I read mod text is that you are not allowed to vote or be voted for if not on the Active Timeline. It's not that your votes or votes on you don't count.

So then I wonder... why is it not already public knowledge who is on which timeline?

scolapasta · « **Reply #86 on:** May 04, 2021, 08:48:25 pm »

Quote from: mathdude on May 04, 2021, 08:33:44 pm

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 04, 2021, 03:35:23 pm
So like, is it a thing to not reveal which timeline you are on or what?

Also, I've been playing mafia for a couple years elsewhere and I am completely different now... really... you can trust that.

The way I read mod text is that you are not allowed to vote or be voted for if not on the Active Timeline. It's not that your votes or votes on you don't count.

So then I wonder... why is it not already public knowledge who is on which timeline?

This is also how I read it but thought it was worth asking the mod. And my guess is it will make sense to reveal.

The only reason it might've been useful to keep secret is when Timelines QTs were going to be one frward and one backward, but since they're randomized anyway...

I'm Forward Timeline. So see everyone D2!

(just kidding, of course, but it does work that I don't get to vote D1, since I'm not very fond of D1s - and also this way MiX can't vote for me!)

Galzria · « **Reply #87 on:** May 04, 2021, 09:23:51 pm »

Hey all -

Busy day. Getting ready for one of my locations to open tomorrow.

I’m on the Forward Timeline.

EFHW · « **Reply #88 on:** May 04, 2021, 09:58:46 pm »

Hi. I'm forward timeline. We probably weren't told because it will quickly be obvious. While it says not allowed to vote, I have to think the meaning was votes don't count rather than thinking there will be repercussions for voting.

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #89 on:** May 04, 2021, 10:00:19 pm »

Hi hi hi hi!

Forward timeline for me!

It’s great to see many old friends. 16 is a huge game, so reducing to 8 is a relief.

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #90 on:** May 04, 2021, 10:04:03 pm »

Quote from: mathdude on May 04, 2021, 08:33:44 pm

The way I read mod text is that you are not allowed to vote or be voted for if not on the Active Timeline. It's not that your votes or votes on you don't count.

So then I wonder... why is it not already public knowledge who is on which timeline?

What is the difference between those math?

Swowl · « **Reply #91 on:** May 05, 2021, 12:46:36 am »

Quote from: scolapasta on May 04, 2021, 03:47:49 pm

If I am not in the active timeline and I vote, will that show up as a vote in the vote count?
If I am not in the active timeline and I get voted, will that show up as a vote in the vote count?

No and No.

faust · « **Reply #92 on:** May 05, 2021, 01:06:00 am »

Quote from: Glooble on May 04, 2021, 07:07:55 pm

Well, I agree with MiX - holding back helps scum way more than town.

How so?

Dylan32 · « **Reply #93 on:** May 05, 2021, 01:08:03 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 01:06:00 am

Quote from: Glooble on May 04, 2021, 07:07:55 pm
Well, I agree with MiX - holding back helps scum way more than town.
How so?

I was starting to ask this, but the ppe revealed how concisely my message should have been...

Dylan32 · « **Reply #94 on:** May 05, 2021, 01:08:19 am »

*concise... ughh

faust · « **Reply #95 on:** May 05, 2021, 01:15:46 am »

Quote from: scolapasta on May 04, 2021, 08:48:25 pm

I'm Forward Timeline. So see everyone D2!

There is actually no guarantee that D2 will be foward timeline. Indeed, I would not be surprised to learn that scum gets to toggle the timeline each Night.

faust · « **Reply #96 on:** May 05, 2021, 02:27:41 am »

One clear downside of timeline claiming is that it allows scum to target the PRs that can be active that Night with roleblocking, killing etc.

So here is my plan: noone votes. Instead, we use italics to Vote: xy. I agree to do vote count for italic votes. If a majority of living players agrees on an exile, then the people in the active timeline try to exile them. Otherwise, there will be no exile.

faust · « **Reply #97 on:** May 05, 2021, 02:48:33 am »

I think we have 5 forward claims already, so if everyone agrees we will be able to exile in forward without revealing more info. Exiling in reverse would of course require more reveals, but it's not clear to me that we want to exile today anyways.

faust · « **Reply #98 on:** May 05, 2021, 02:49:44 am »

Vote: MiX

faust · « **Reply #99 on:** May 05, 2021, 02:51:40 am »

faust's non-timeline-binary vote count 1.0

MiX (1): faust

Not Voting (15): MiX, EFHW, WCD, scolapasta, chairs, hypercube, Joth, Galzria, Ashersky, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus, gkrieg, Mathdude, Dylan

MiX · « **Reply #100 on:** May 05, 2021, 03:18:23 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 01:15:46 am

Quote from: scolapasta on May 04, 2021, 08:48:25 pm
I'm Forward Timeline. So see everyone D2!
There is actually no guarantee that D2 will be foward timeline. Indeed, I would not be surprised to learn that scum gets to toggle the timeline each Night.

Yes there is...

Quote from: Swowl on August 18, 2020, 12:26:21 am

3. Active Timelines will begin at the Start of Day and end at the conclusion of the following Night.

I guess there isn't more than this, but...

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:27:41 am

One clear downside of timeline claiming is that it allows scum to target the PRs that can be active that Night with roleblocking, killing etc.

So here is my plan: noone votes. Instead, we use italics to Vote: xy. I agree to do vote count for italic votes. If a majority of living players agrees on an exile, then the people in the active timeline try to exile them. Otherwise, there will be no exile.

This doesn't work: if town decides to exile someone that isn't of the active timeline, do you expect the following day to consist of that person being exiled and nothing else? What a waste, too.

EFHW · « **Reply #101 on:** May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:48:33 am

I think we have 5 forward claims already, so if everyone agrees we will be able to exile in forward without revealing more info. Exiling in reverse would of course require more reveals, but it's not clear to me that we want to exile today anyways.

We can't vote for the forwards today. Can't exile them.

What is the benefit of no exile?

faust · « **Reply #102 on:** May 05, 2021, 03:24:56 am »

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 03:18:23 am

Yes there is...

Quote from: Swowl on August 18, 2020, 12:26:21 am
3. Active Timelines will begin at the Start of Day and end at the conclusion of the following Night.

I guess there isn't more than this, but...

I have received a mod reply that timelines are not guaranteed to alternate.

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 03:18:23 am

This doesn't work: if town decides to exile someone that isn't of the active timeline, do you expect the following day to consist of that person being exiled and nothing else? What a waste, too.

This is pretty ridiculous coming from someone who has just finished a game where they were prevented from being exiled and continued to not be exiled the following Day.

faust · « **Reply #103 on:** May 05, 2021, 03:27:27 am »

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:48:33 am
I think we have 5 forward claims already, so if everyone agrees we will be able to exile in forward without revealing more info. Exiling in reverse would of course require more reveals, but it's not clear to me that we want to exile today anyways.
We can't vote for the forwards today. Can't exile them.

I know. this was meant for tomorrow, or whenever forward gets active.

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am

What is the benefit of no exile?

More time for PRs to operate, less info revealed to scum. Also, with only 8 people able to vote, town would have to vote almost unanimously in order to successfully exile scum, and that doesn't seem likely.

MiX · « **Reply #104 on:** May 05, 2021, 04:32:53 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 03:24:56 am

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 03:18:23 am
This doesn't work: if town decides to exile someone that isn't of the active timeline, do you expect the following day to consist of that person being exiled and nothing else? What a waste, too.
This is pretty ridiculous coming from someone who has just finished a game where they were prevented from being exiled and continued to not be exiled the following Day.

The hell does that have to do with what I said! How is this even comparable? What the fuck??

Also I have no idea why that even happened, but you do, so we can't actually talk about this.

MiX · « **Reply #105 on:** May 05, 2021, 04:33:38 am »

Vote: faust

What is that logic.

faust · « **Reply #106 on:** May 05, 2021, 05:28:38 am »

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 04:32:53 am

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 03:24:56 am
Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 03:18:23 am
This doesn't work: if town decides to exile someone that isn't of the active timeline, do you expect the following day to consist of that person being exiled and nothing else? What a waste, too.
This is pretty ridiculous coming from someone who has just finished a game where they were prevented from being exiled and continued to not be exiled the following Day.

The hell does that have to do with what I said! How is this even comparable? What the fuck??

Also I have no idea why that even happened, but you do, so we can't actually talk about this.

Maybe it wasn't best to mention this, so I'll rephrase to say: No, I do not expect that.

MiX · « **Reply #107 on:** May 05, 2021, 05:35:29 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 05:28:38 am

Maybe it wasn't best to mention this, so I'll rephrase to say: No, I do not expect that.

Okay then your plan is anti-town.

faust · « **Reply #108 on:** May 05, 2021, 05:57:36 am »

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 05:35:29 am

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 05:28:38 am
Maybe it wasn't best to mention this, so I'll rephrase to say: No, I do not expect that.

Okay then your plan is anti-town.

At least I have a plan and am not just blurting out random bits of information to the enemy.

faust · « **Reply #109 on:** May 05, 2021, 05:58:37 am »

but if you wish to expand on why you think it is anti-town, I would be interested to hear reasons.

MiX · « **Reply #110 on:** May 05, 2021, 06:01:19 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 05:57:36 am

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 05:35:29 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 05:28:38 am
Maybe it wasn't best to mention this, so I'll rephrase to say: No, I do not expect that.

Okay then your plan is anti-town.
At least I have a plan and am not just blurting out random bits of information to the enemy.

My plan is to play D1. Your plan is to not play D1. My plan is to attempt to exile scum (and also exile scum), your plan is not to exile at all.

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 05:58:37 am

but if you wish to expand on why you think it is anti-town, I would be interested to hear reasons.

Your plan throws away 2 days of voting if we decide on the second day that we want to exile someone of the non-active timeline (and 1 day regardless). By that time, why would it be easier to kill scum? We would just be thinning our numbers.

faust · « **Reply #111 on:** May 05, 2021, 06:06:46 am »

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 06:01:19 am

My plan is to play D1. Your plan is to not play D1. My plan is to attempt to exile scum (and also exile scum), your plan is not to exile at all.

This is not my plan. Indeed, my plan allows everyone to play D1 rather than half the players. My plan has a good chance of finding an exile. And no exile D1 in an RMM is not terrible. D1 has a high chance of misexiles, and misexiles are way worse here than normally. If scum ever ends up controlling just one timeline, we have most likely lost because we can never exile scum from that timeline.

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 06:01:19 am

Your plan throws away 2 days of voting if we decide on the second day that we want to exile someone of the non-active timeline (and 1 day regardless). By that time, why would it be easier to kill scum? We would just be thinning our numbers.

It would be easier because this is an RMM with supercharged investigative PRs.

MiX · « **Reply #112 on:** May 05, 2021, 06:23:00 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 03:27:27 am

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:48:33 am
I think we have 5 forward claims already, so if everyone agrees we will be able to exile in forward without revealing more info. Exiling in reverse would of course require more reveals, but it's not clear to me that we want to exile today anyways.
We can't vote for the forwards today. Can't exile them.
I know. this was meant for tomorrow, or whenever forward gets active.

Ooooooh I think I misread this. So I thought you were throwing 1 more day.

Okay then it should be...okay. At worst we lose 1 day.

Glooble · « **Reply #113 on:** May 05, 2021, 06:28:11 am »

I did not realize timeline were not guaranteed to alternate. That does change things to some extent. Also I should have reread the timeline rules before I claimed because I was confused- I thought night actions against characters in the other timeline would fail, which is not the case.

The thing is, for the game to proceed, eventually we’re going to have to figure out who can vote for who. The exile is how town wins, and taking day 1 off really feels like kneecapping ourselves. It’s not just about exile or no exile- Faust’s italicized votes won’t really carry the weight of real votes when we analyze them later. Scum knows what timeline their partners are on, so this gives them cover to go after each other without risking an actual exile. If we go with Faust’s plan, I don’t think it’s going to leave us with a lot of actionable info going into D2, even if we get a flip.

Glooble · « **Reply #114 on:** May 05, 2021, 06:48:19 am »

Put another way, I think when we try to take people to task for their votes later, a vote is going to be a lot easier to weasel out of than a vote. Also, it removes the pressure vote as a tool in our arsenal- if I’m forward timeline today and I get six votes on me, it’s not going to pressure me into acting any differently, especially since I know that half those people voting for me aren’t real votes anyway.

faust · « **Reply #115 on:** May 05, 2021, 07:03:36 am »

It's all a matter of perception really. We can make italic votes every bit as impactful as normal votes if it is understood that a player who got a majority of them is going to be real-voted for. This will not work if people disagree with my plan, but preemptively saying that it can't work is just saying "I disagree with this because I feel like people will disagree with it".

faust · « **Reply #116 on:** May 05, 2021, 07:07:38 am »

Glooble, I feel like your counterarguments are designed for a fictional setting where it's either my plan or a standard D1. This is not the case. With no plan, half the players in this game are disenfranchised, and we also are unable to put any kind of vote on them, pressure or otherwise.

Glooble · « **Reply #117 on:** May 05, 2021, 07:31:51 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 07:07:38 am

Glooble, I feel like your counterarguments are designed for a fictional setting where it's either my plan or a standard D1. This is not the case. With no plan, half the players in this game are disenfranchised, and we also are unable to put any kind of vote on them, pressure or otherwise.

But If everyone knows who they can or can’t vote for, then you can try and lobby players who have a vote today but no strong reads to vote on your behalf. Players are “Disenfranchised” maybe in the purely literal sense of the word, but hardly powerless.

With a full claim, it essentially becomes two separate games of mafia, but scum probably only needs to win one of them to win. If I know everyone in the reverse timeline, I can play this game as if they are the only other players, and everyone else is vocal spectators aligned with one side or another.

Glooble · « **Reply #118 on:** May 05, 2021, 07:33:07 am »

Two big assumptions here, of course, that have not been confirmed by the mod. 1.) there is a t least one scum in each timeline and 2.) it is not possible for player to jump from one timeline to another.

EFHW · « **Reply #119 on:** May 05, 2021, 07:53:47 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 03:27:27 am

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:48:33 am
I think we have 5 forward claims already, so if everyone agrees we will be able to exile in forward without revealing more info. Exiling in reverse would of course require more reveals, but it's not clear to me that we want to exile today anyways.
We can't vote for the forwards today. Can't exile them.
I know. this was meant for tomorrow, or whenever forward gets active.

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
What is the benefit of no exile?
More time for PRs to operate, less info revealed to scum. Also, with only 8 people able to vote, town would have to vote almost unanimously in order to successfully exile scum, and that doesn't seem likely.

It only takes 5 to exile.

EFHW · « **Reply #120 on:** May 05, 2021, 07:55:56 am »

I'm not necessarily opposed to no exile, but bringing it up this early seems like surgically removing any scumhunting from the day.

EFHW · « **Reply #121 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:03:36 am »

I don't think we can expect italicized votes to turn into real ones later. There will be too much new information in the meantime. That makes them more like FOSs, which are pressuring to a certain degree and allows some scumhunting to happen.

MiX · « **Reply #122 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:05:54 am »

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 08:03:36 am

I don't think we can expect italicized votes to turn into real ones later. There will be too much new information in the meantime. That makes them more like FOSs, which are pressuring to a certain degree and allows some scumhunting to happen.

I think it's reasonable to literally only vote once the italic votes hammer someone. This, of course, would mean we need to get a deadline that then lets the reverse timeline people to hammer whoever we decided should die (and probably to exile the second option if the exile ends up being forward timeline).

EFHW · « **Reply #123 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:09:56 am »

Glooble's two game observation suggests to me that there is an even number of scum, most likely 4, or two teams of two. Is that balanced for a 16 player game? Maybe there's a 3rd party, too.

pingpongsam · « **Reply #124 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:10:18 am »

Quote from: Glooble on May 05, 2021, 07:33:07 am

Two big assumptions here, of course, that have not been confirmed by the mod. 1.) there is a t least one scum in each timeline and 2.) it is not possible for player to jump from one timeline to another.

The first assumption seems pretty reasonable. The second seems far less likely to me.

EFHW · « **Reply #125 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:18:59 am »

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 08:05:54 am

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 08:03:36 am
I don't think we can expect italicized votes to turn into real ones later. There will be too much new information in the meantime. That makes them more like FOSs, which are pressuring to a certain degree and allows some scumhunting to happen.

I think it's reasonable to literally only vote once the italic votes hammer someone. This, of course, would mean we need to get a deadline that then lets the reverse timeline people to hammer whoever we decided should die (and probably to exile the second option if the exile ends up being forward timeline).

Ok, I missed that detail. But it could leave us scrambling at the end of the day. And the forward people being voted know they aren't in any real danger. It seems very possible that both top two exile choices would be forward.

The plan does try to make the most of our situation and makes forward votes a little bit more relevant. We likely can't do it after today since Day 1 will have revealed a lot of timelines. So I'm ok with the voting part. But saying we'll no exile anyway takes all the energy out of the plan.

mathdude · « **Reply #126 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:32:07 am »

Quote from: WestCoastDidds on May 04, 2021, 10:04:03 pm

Quote from: mathdude on May 04, 2021, 08:33:44 pm

The way I read mod text is that you are not allowed to vote or be voted for if not on the Active Timeline. It's not that your votes or votes on you don't count.

So then I wonder... why is it not already public knowledge who is on which timeline?

What is the difference between those math?

Having just finished a BM game, my mind says anything is possible. I initially read "may not vote" to mean that if someone not on active timeline does vote, there could be mod-sanctions applied. But that seems much less fair if someone who is allowed to vote accidentally votes for someone they are not allowed to vote for, with who is on which timeline not being public knowledge.

mathdude · « **Reply #127 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:35:16 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 01:15:46 am

Quote from: scolapasta on May 04, 2021, 08:48:25 pm
I'm Forward Timeline. So see everyone D2!
There is actually no guarantee that D2 will be foward timeline. Indeed, I would not be surprised to learn that scum gets to toggle the timeline each Night.

Why scum? Maybe a town PR? Maybe mod-controlled based on certain triggers? Maybe random?

mathdude · « **Reply #128 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:37:58 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:27:41 am

One clear downside of timeline claiming is that it allows scum to target the PRs that can be active that Night with roleblocking, killing etc.

So here is my plan: noone votes. Instead, we use italics to Vote: xy. I agree to do vote count for italic votes. If a majority of living players agrees on an exile, then the people in the active timeline try to exile them. Otherwise, there will be no exile.

One clear upside of timeline cleaning is it allowed Town PRs who are only useful against active scum to know possible targets... RBers, trackers, etc.

mathdude · « **Reply #129 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:46:47 am »

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 05, 2021, 08:10:18 am

Quote from: Glooble on May 05, 2021, 07:33:07 am
Two big assumptions here, of course, that have not been confirmed by the mod. 1.) there is a t least one scum in each timeline and 2.) it is not possible for player to jump from one timeline to another.

The first assumption seems pretty reasonable. The second seems far less likely to me.

Are your responses based on actual information, or just your guesses? The fact that Glooble mentions the second makes me think that is very much possible this game.

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 08:09:56 am

Glooble's two game observation suggests to me that there is an even number of scum, most likely 4, or two teams of two. Is that balanced for a 16 player game? Maybe there's a 3rd party, too.

2 games of 2 scum in 8 can be reasonably balanced if appropriate power roles are distributed. But the biggest problem is if scum gets full control of one half of the game they get much more power.

And when the game design was adjusted from 18 parts to 16, and our QTs no longer guaranteed to be one person from each of Forward and Reverse... this also makes me think there may be possibilities to switch between timelines.

Still, these are just guesses on my part, not based on any actual game facts/knowledge.

pingpongsam · « **Reply #130 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:55:52 am »

Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 08:46:47 am

Are your responses based on actual information, or just your guesses? The fact that Glooble mentions the second makes me think that is very much possible this game.

Just my own approximation of such a novel setup and also, as you say, that Glooble even brought it up.

Glooble · « **Reply #131 on:** May 05, 2021, 09:12:39 am »

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 05, 2021, 08:55:52 am

Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 08:46:47 am
Are your responses based on actual information, or just your guesses? The fact that Glooble mentions the second makes me think that is very much possible this game.

Just my own approximation of such a novel setup and also, as you say, that Glooble even brought it up.

This... feels like role-fishing? I daresay the thought could have occurred to anyone, I don't think it implies anything one way or the other about what's in my PM.

MiX · « **Reply #132 on:** May 05, 2021, 09:31:38 am »

Quote from: Glooble on May 05, 2021, 09:12:39 am

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 05, 2021, 08:55:52 am
Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 08:46:47 am
Are your responses based on actual information, or just your guesses? The fact that Glooble mentions the second makes me think that is very much possible this game.

Just my own approximation of such a novel setup and also, as you say, that Glooble even brought it up.

This... feels like role-fishing? I daresay the thought could have occurred to anyone, I don't think it implies anything one way or the other about what's in my PM.

Hmm? Wouldn't math's question be more role fishing? You didn't even need to talk about the post you're quoting.

mathdude · « **Reply #133 on:** May 05, 2021, 10:20:00 am »

Quote from: MiX on May 05, 2021, 09:31:38 am

Quote from: Glooble on May 05, 2021, 09:12:39 am
Quote from: pingpongsam on May 05, 2021, 08:55:52 am
Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 08:46:47 am
Are your responses based on actual information, or just your guesses? The fact that Glooble mentions the second makes me think that is very much possible this game.

Just my own approximation of such a novel setup and also, as you say, that Glooble even brought it up.

This... feels like role-fishing? I daresay the thought could have occurred to anyone, I don't think it implies anything one way or the other about what's in my PM.

Hmm? Wouldn't math's question be more role fishing? You didn't even need to talk about the post you're quoting.

My question may have been slightly role-fishing. But this is a RMM game and setup had indicated everyone has a power role. So I don't think that's unusual. Each town player will decide if and when and how their role is most useful and the answers to this could change as the game progresses.

A normal investigative role is most useful remaining completely hidden until they get results worth sharing. Some powers or roles or parts of a role or information gained when clarifying their role may be useful to share now or soon. And when revealing information, some people will need to reveal role to validate information and others can reveal the information as fact without their role, and others may reveal it by using questions or hypothetical situations to promote discussion.

I think the last item has been done already. But as per Glooble's quoted words too, it's also possible some was legitimately questions and thoughts anyone could have had.

faust · « **Reply #134 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:06:22 am »

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 07:53:47 am

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 03:27:27 am
Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:48:33 am
I think we have 5 forward claims already, so if everyone agrees we will be able to exile in forward without revealing more info. Exiling in reverse would of course require more reveals, but it's not clear to me that we want to exile today anyways.
We can't vote for the forwards today. Can't exile them.
I know. this was meant for tomorrow, or whenever forward gets active.

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
What is the benefit of no exile?
More time for PRs to operate, less info revealed to scum. Also, with only 8 people able to vote, town would have to vote almost unanimously in order to successfully exile scum, and that doesn't seem likely.
It only takes 5 to exile.

Yes this is what I am saying? With 8 people who can vote, probably 2 scum among them, the town (i.e. 6 people) has to vote almost unanimously to exile scum.

faust · « **Reply #135 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:07:55 am »

Quote from: Glooble on May 05, 2021, 07:31:51 am

With a full claim, it essentially becomes two separate games of mafia, but scum probably only needs to win one of them to win. If I know everyone in the reverse timeline, I can play this game as if they are the only other players, and everyone else is vocal spectators aligned with one side or another.

Exactly. don't you see how that massively favors scum?

EFHW · « **Reply #136 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:10:13 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 11:07:55 am

Quote from: Glooble on May 05, 2021, 07:31:51 am
With a full claim, it essentially becomes two separate games of mafia, but scum probably only needs to win one of them to win. If I know everyone in the reverse timeline, I can play this game as if they are the only other players, and everyone else is vocal spectators aligned with one side or another.
Exactly. don't you see how that massively favors scum?

That's why I think multiball is likely.

faust · « **Reply #137 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:12:09 am »

Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 08:35:16 am

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 01:15:46 am
Quote from: scolapasta on May 04, 2021, 08:48:25 pm
I'm Forward Timeline. So see everyone D2!
There is actually no guarantee that D2 will be foward timeline. Indeed, I would not be surprised to learn that scum gets to toggle the timeline each Night.

Why scum? Maybe a town PR? Maybe mod-controlled based on certain triggers? Maybe random?

yes, these are all options. I mention the scum option because I think it makes sense and it's something to be wary of.

jotheonah · « **Reply #138 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:12:51 am »

I know this isn't a bastard game but, IIRC a big part of the movie is about not knowing YOUR OWN motivations (on account of the memory loss). So I wonder if there's like team switching, or people who are scum and don't know it, or anything like that? Maybe I'm overstretching.

jotheonah · « **Reply #139 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:13:12 am »

FWIW I'm planning to watch Memento this weekend -- I've seen it but it's been years.

EFHW · « **Reply #140 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:13:19 am »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 11:06:22 am

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 07:53:47 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 03:27:27 am
Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:48:33 am
I think we have 5 forward claims already, so if everyone agrees we will be able to exile in forward without revealing more info. Exiling in reverse would of course require more reveals, but it's not clear to me that we want to exile today anyways.
We can't vote for the forwards today. Can't exile them.
I know. this was meant for tomorrow, or whenever forward gets active.

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
What is the benefit of no exile?
More time for PRs to operate, less info revealed to scum. Also, with only 8 people able to vote, town would have to vote almost unanimously in order to successfully exile scum, and that doesn't seem likely.
It only takes 5 to exile.
Yes this is what I am saying? With 8 people who can vote, probably 2 scum among them, the town (i.e. 6 people) has to vote almost unanimously to exile scum.

This isn't different from any other day with 8 players. I guess we do sometimes no exile in those situations. The way you phrased it, I thought you were trying to say we were in an unusual situation there.

pingpongsam · « **Reply #141 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:27:46 am »

Is evil psychiatrist a role around here?

MiX · « **Reply #142 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:28:33 am »

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 05, 2021, 11:27:46 am

Is evil psychiatrist a role around here?

What's psychiatrist?

This question should answer your question.

MiX · « **Reply #143 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:29:34 am »

You know, having to discuss if we can even get to RVS before getting to RVS will significantly slow down this day.

I say we should all get our italic votes out there, then decide if we should bold them or not.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #144 on:** May 05, 2021, 12:17:56 pm »

I think the italics plan by faust is a good one. Obviously overtly helpful faust is scum faust, so vote: faust.

I also don't know if not timeline claiming is a good thing. Not just for the targeting reasons that have been mentioned, but because we will have at least partially timeline claimed by the end of the day when the people from the current timeline vote for the person who has been hammered by italics votes. Not sure if it is good to let some people be unclaimed from a timeline while others get to not be timeline claimed.

pingpongsam · « **Reply #145 on:** May 05, 2021, 12:36:20 pm »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2021, 12:17:56 pm

Not sure if it is good to let some people be unclaimed from a timeline while others get to not be timeline claimed.

I think I know what you're trying to say but you didn't actually say that with those words, right?

EFHW · « **Reply #146 on:** May 05, 2021, 12:48:44 pm »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2021, 12:17:56 pm

I think the italics plan by faust is a good one. Obviously overtly helpful faust is scum faust, so vote: faust.

I also don't know if not timeline claiming is a good thing. Not just for the targeting reasons that have been mentioned, but because we will have at least partially timeline claimed by the end of the day when the people from the current timeline vote for the person who has been hammered by italics votes. Not sure if it is good to let some people be unclaimed from a timeline while others get to not be timeline claimed.

The italics plan only works if timelines are unknown.

faust · « **Reply #147 on:** May 05, 2021, 01:23:10 pm »

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 11:13:19 am

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 11:06:22 am
Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 07:53:47 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 03:27:27 am
Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:48:33 am
I think we have 5 forward claims already, so if everyone agrees we will be able to exile in forward without revealing more info. Exiling in reverse would of course require more reveals, but it's not clear to me that we want to exile today anyways.
We can't vote for the forwards today. Can't exile them.
I know. this was meant for tomorrow, or whenever forward gets active.

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
What is the benefit of no exile?
More time for PRs to operate, less info revealed to scum. Also, with only 8 people able to vote, town would have to vote almost unanimously in order to successfully exile scum, and that doesn't seem likely.
It only takes 5 to exile.
Yes this is what I am saying? With 8 people who can vote, probably 2 scum among them, the town (i.e. 6 people) has to vote almost unanimously to exile scum.

This isn't different from any other day with 8 players. I guess we do sometimes no exile in those situations. The way you phrased it, I thought you were trying to say we were in an unusual situation there.

Well usually once you reach that gamestate there is a bunch of information available to make a more informed choice.

Dylan32 · « **Reply #148 on:** May 05, 2021, 01:41:57 pm »

I'm all for people who aren't in the active timeline indicating their reads and preferences using italics, but I'm honestly not sure what benefit trying to hide timelines serves town.

If the status quo continues and we try to hide that info using faust's plan, (A) we are going to keep wasting time on a mechanical discussion that won't really help us develop reads, and (B) there's roughly a 50/50 shot that our preferred exile is actually not able to be exiled, which will leave us either scrambling or no exiling, which is either trivially bad for town or imho bad for town based on the last RMM that no-exiled D1. If we finish claiming that, we can move on to actually developing reads and finding scum, and we won't run the risk of building momentum towards an exile that surprisingly can't actually be exiled today.

Also personally, if only half the lineup can vote and the number required to vote is based on that fraction of the lobby, only the half of the lobby that can vote should actually be listed on the vote count, but that's just me.

scolapasta · « **Reply #149 on:** May 05, 2021, 01:46:18 pm »

I think establishing timelines during D1 will also be useful, because I have to imagine there have to be some powers that allow you to switch your or others timeline. Maybe they didn't even exist at first, but that was part of the change that instigated the randomized QTs.

I think Dylan makes good points about the waste. Re: if you are active and post an italicized vote, you won't know for sure if it's valid or not. (for those of us not currently active, it's less of an issue, of course)

At the very least, we can prove the case for those who have already declared:

Vote: scolapasta

mathdude · « **Reply #150 on:** May 05, 2021, 01:48:28 pm »

Let me get this italics voting figured out. We all (not just Active timeline) italic-vote someone. Then once we reach majority, people on Active (currently Reverse) timeline all cast their votes (for who they wanted, or for the agreed-upon majority)? What if I'm Active, majority is on MiX, but I want to vote faust? What happens if I vote faust instead, and then MiX doesn't get exiled because of it?

And then if all Active players did vote MiX in bold, and we realize MiX wasn't Active timeline when vote count comes out so we need to change to next option, but there's disagreement about who the 2nd best choice was. But then what if that person isn't Active timeline either? Also, what if Inactive players still cast bold votes to make things look different than they should be (until a vote count comes out) - whether scum, 3rd party, or having an odd role or win condition. What if we don't get that majority in time for at least 5 people on Active timeline to come vote properly (or for the 2nd or 3rd option if votes don't show up for our first choices)?

Seems like an awfully good scheme for scum to pull, as non-Active scum can help sway the votes, or to hope for No Exile today. I'm not saying No Exile is a bad idea. But I am saying that if we do want to do that, we should agree on the idea of "No Exile", not an idea that could draw out a few days of working through the game mechanics rather than actual game discussion and scum-hunting.

Why might No Exile be good for scum? If I was making this game, I think I would have it 2-2 or 2-1 with some weird abilities of people on scum and town to affect or possibly switch to other sides occasionally. So if there are 2 scum out of 8, then No Exile *likely* brings next Reverse day to 5-2, with 4 of those 5 town needing to agree on the right scum... that makes it pretty easy for false-claims by scum to draw votes. I say *likely* because of possible Vig, RB, etc. roles.

So what do I think?
Vote: faust
Reason: I'm reverse timeline. This will show whether faust is or not. Let's get votes on everyone intermittently, and through vote counts, just make Timeline claims irrelevant, because we'll have the facts. Then we know what (and who) we're dealing with. Town PRs (which everyone has one, according to setup post) will know for sure where they are more useful. Would you rather have 5 or 6 Town PRs know who to target and 2 scum? Or would you rather many Town be left in the dark, and scum (presumably all 3 or 4 together in night chat) be able to work out a lot more information collaboratively together at night to maximize their effectiveness while some of us shoot blanks?

PPE2 - Exactly Dylan and scola!

scolapasta · « **Reply #151 on:** May 05, 2021, 02:01:58 pm »

I wonder if there'a any poer that will allow cross timeline voting, either collectively or on or by an individual?

Swowl · « **Reply #152 on:** May 05, 2021, 02:31:52 pm »

Vote Count 1.1:

faust (1): mathdude
Not Voting (15): MiX, EFHW, WCD, scolapasta, faust, chairs, hypercube, Joth, Galzria, Ashersky, PPS, Glooble, Awaclus, gkrieg, Dylan

With 8 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 1 starts now and ends Tuesday, May 11th at 3:25pm Forum Time.

mathdude · « **Reply #153 on:** May 05, 2021, 02:48:44 pm »

Well, faust and I are confirmed Reverse.
Scola is confirmed Forward.

Any Reverse who want to confirm themselves, vote for me or faust (or yourself).
Any Forward who want to confirm, vote for yourself.

Once Reverse are confirmed, we can start voting more players and then wait for the next Vote Count to find out about them.

Vote: hypercube

scolapasta · « **Reply #154 on:** May 05, 2021, 02:58:22 pm »

Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 02:48:44 pm

Well, faust and I are confirmed Reverse.
Scola is confirmed Forward.

Any Reverse who want to confirm themselves, vote for me or faust (or yourself).
Any Forward who want to confirm, vote for yourself.

Once Reverse are confirmed, we can start voting more players and then wait for the next Vote Count to find out about them.

Vote: hypercube

And, as you just did, you and faust can choose to confirm whomever you'd like. (my guess is faust won't as he wants the italics plan, but...)

faust · « **Reply #155 on:** May 05, 2021, 03:06:27 pm »

I am extremely frustrated and annoyed at mathdude's play.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #156 on:** May 05, 2021, 03:10:17 pm »

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 12:48:44 pm

Quote from: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2021, 12:17:56 pm
I think the italics plan by faust is a good one. Obviously overtly helpful faust is scum faust, so vote: faust.

I also don't know if not timeline claiming is a good thing. Not just for the targeting reasons that have been mentioned, but because we will have at least partially timeline claimed by the end of the day when the people from the current timeline vote for the person who has been hammered by italics votes. Not sure if it is good to let some people be unclaimed from a timeline while others get to not be timeline claimed.
The italics plan only works if timelines are unknown.

I'm saying that we are all going to have to vote at the end of the day, which will show who is with what timeline anyway.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #157 on:** May 05, 2021, 03:11:38 pm »

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 05, 2021, 12:36:20 pm

Quote from: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2021, 12:17:56 pm
Not sure if it is good to let some people be unclaimed from a timeline while others get to not be timeline claimed.

I think I know what you're trying to say but you didn't actually say that with those words, right?

Yes, you are correct. I'm saying letting people pick whether to claim their timeline is a bad idea.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #158 on:** May 05, 2021, 03:15:06 pm »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 03:06:27 pm

I am extremely frustrated and annoyed at mathdude's play.

Agreed. There is really nothing wrong with having a discussion to the merits of claiming before he just does it for people.

Awaclus · « **Reply #159 on:** May 05, 2021, 04:06:42 pm »

Faust's plan seems fine in the early game, but later on in the game, it gets increasingly risky because if someone/some people don't follow the plan, there won't necessarily be enough time to make them accountable which means there's less of an incentive for scum to follow it.

EFHW · « **Reply #160 on:** May 05, 2021, 04:14:10 pm »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2021, 03:10:17 pm

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 12:48:44 pm
Quote from: gkrieg13 on May 05, 2021, 12:17:56 pm
I think the italics plan by faust is a good one. Obviously overtly helpful faust is scum faust, so vote: faust.

I also don't know if not timeline claiming is a good thing. Not just for the targeting reasons that have been mentioned, but because we will have at least partially timeline claimed by the end of the day when the people from the current timeline vote for the person who has been hammered by italics votes. Not sure if it is good to let some people be unclaimed from a timeline while others get to not be timeline claimed.
The italics plan only works if timelines are unknown.

I'm saying that we are all going to have to vote at the end of the day, which will show who is with what timeline anyway.

Right, but before that the italic plan works better if we don't know. After today, we will know and that plan won't be helpful anymore.

EFHW · « **Reply #161 on:** May 05, 2021, 04:14:43 pm »

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 01:23:10 pm

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 11:13:19 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 11:06:22 am
Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 07:53:47 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 03:27:27 am
Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 02:48:33 am
I think we have 5 forward claims already, so if everyone agrees we will be able to exile in forward without revealing more info. Exiling in reverse would of course require more reveals, but it's not clear to me that we want to exile today anyways.
We can't vote for the forwards today. Can't exile them.
I know. this was meant for tomorrow, or whenever forward gets active.

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 03:23:38 am
What is the benefit of no exile?
More time for PRs to operate, less info revealed to scum. Also, with only 8 people able to vote, town would have to vote almost unanimously in order to successfully exile scum, and that doesn't seem likely.
It only takes 5 to exile.
Yes this is what I am saying? With 8 people who can vote, probably 2 scum among them, the town (i.e. 6 people) has to vote almost unanimously to exile scum.

This isn't different from any other day with 8 players. I guess we do sometimes no exile in those situations. The way you phrased it, I thought you were trying to say we were in an unusual situation there.
Well usually once you reach that gamestate there is a bunch of information available to make a more informed choice.

Sure, that's fair.

mathdude · « **Reply #162 on:** May 05, 2021, 05:02:13 pm »

Quote from: Awaclus on May 05, 2021, 04:06:42 pm

Faust's plan seems fine in the early game, but later on in the game, it gets increasingly risky because if someone/some people don't follow the plan, there won't necessarily be enough time to make them accountable which means there's less of an incentive for scum to follow it.

I actually agree with Awaclus! It's the potential to be abused. And the accountability and timing if it does get abused. Some information deserves to stay hidden (as I explained earlier) at least for a time. I don't see any good reason why keeping our Timeline secret is a good idea, from a Town perspective. I can see why Scum might want to.

jotheonah · « **Reply #163 on:** May 05, 2021, 05:02:39 pm »

I'm willing to give faust's plan a try. Glooble makes a good point about it only working if other people buy in, but faust makes a good point that the alternative isn't amazing.

MiX · « **Reply #164 on:** May 05, 2021, 05:11:13 pm »

Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 05:02:13 pm

Quote from: Awaclus on May 05, 2021, 04:06:42 pm
Faust's plan seems fine in the early game, but later on in the game, it gets increasingly risky because if someone/some people don't follow the plan, there won't necessarily be enough time to make them accountable which means there's less of an incentive for scum to follow it.

I actually agree with Awaclus! It's the potential to be abused. And the accountability and timing if it does get abused. Some information deserves to stay hidden (as I explained earlier) at least for a time. I don't see any good reason why keeping our Timeline secret is a good idea, from a Town perspective. I can see why Scum might want to.

Awaclus is right, but I don't think we should do this beyond D1.

mathdude · « **Reply #165 on:** May 05, 2021, 05:46:56 pm »

We're all so stuck on whether this plan is good or not, we're actually not getting anywhere useful. Good job faust. Your plan is working.

We could just move on quickly if everyone claims Timeline, votes for themselves (or if Reverse, you can vote me or faust), then let's get on with the actual game.

I think faust is scummy. And I know he can be voted for today. Anyone else have scum reads?

Awaclus · « **Reply #166 on:** May 05, 2021, 05:50:20 pm »

Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 05:46:56 pm

We're all so stuck on whether this plan is good or not, we're actually not getting anywhere useful. Good job faust. Your plan is working.

We could just move on quickly if everyone claims Timeline, votes for themselves (or if Reverse, you can vote me or faust), then let's get on with the actual game.

I think faust is scummy. And I know he can be voted for today. Anyone else have scum reads?

Figuring out how to get every last bit of advantage for town compared to doing random stuff is a great way to spend early D1 in a 16-player RMM.

mathdude · « **Reply #167 on:** May 05, 2021, 06:33:53 pm »

Agreed. But I think I've been clear that it seems faust's plan gives more advantage to scum than to town.

Awaclus · « **Reply #168 on:** May 05, 2021, 07:00:33 pm »

Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 06:33:53 pm

Agreed. But I think I've been clear that it seems faust's plan gives more advantage to scum than to town.

I don't think it does in the early game.

hypercube · « **Reply #169 on:** May 05, 2021, 07:48:31 pm »

Hi everyone! Sorry, I had an unexpectedly busy day today - will catch up tomorrow.

ashersky · « **Reply #170 on:** May 05, 2021, 07:59:48 pm »

Sorry all, this week was a long holiday, so was unavailable. I've caught up. Quick thoughts, more later:

1. I agree with mathdude on faust's plan.

It's trivially easy to reveal players' timelines via voting, so long as the mod provides vote counts at a reasonable rate. scola can do it alone, or with one or two more active players who want to do so. Using a separate voting system to keep track of preferences is fine, I guess, but we run into the very clear problems that mathdude laid out, specifically the preferred exile being inactive and therefore invalid. Then what? That's a wasted day. Sure, we could be like, welp, let's just do that person when they are active. But then all sorts of night actions can happen, new information can change opinions, etc. And so that's bad. Plus, what do we do today?

2. I don't like the mechanic, but that's a personal opinion based solely on catching up right now. Inactive players have little incentive to pay attention when they cannot affect the outcome. They should pay attention to figure out the game, alignments, etc. but I think if we're all being honest, we can say that most of us are more likely to be involved when we can do things. So I worry about overall participation.

3. Maybe I'm wrong though and there are cool things planned for the timeline things. All I remember about the movie is memory loss and tattoos.

4. With 16 players, there has to be at least 4 non-town, but probably more. I'd say at least 5, if I were designing. But let's go with minimum. Then split into timelines. Now, if each mini-game is 2 v 6, what happens if mafia wins one? Imagine they run the board in one timeline and we no exile every time in the other -- then we have 6 v 4 overall, but odd interactions. I'm not sure what my point is here, but I think there is important stuff here. Something with night actions maybe?

5. What about the QTs thing? Do we talk about that?

Awaclus · « **Reply #171 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:09:06 pm »

Quote from: ashersky on May 05, 2021, 07:59:48 pm

Using a separate voting system to keep track of preferences is fine, I guess, but we run into the very clear problems that mathdude laid out, specifically the preferred exile being inactive and therefore invalid. Then what?

Then we exile someone else.

jotheonah · « **Reply #172 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:20:04 pm »

so we need a fake deadline. fairly early too.

EFHW · « **Reply #173 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:34:36 pm »

Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 06:33:53 pm

Agreed. But I think I've been clear that it seems faust's plan gives more advantage to scum than to town.

I don't agree with this.

EFHW · « **Reply #174 on:** May 05, 2021, 08:41:30 pm »

Re ash's #4. This is an interesting point. Maybe there's a third party who can target both timelines.

pingpongsam · « **Reply #175 on:** May 05, 2021, 09:49:51 pm »

Ash2: Disagree. I may agree later. As it is I keep checking m PM to even see what timeline I am on. I am fully following regardless. Also, this mechanic is unique enough to draw me out of retirement.

Ash5: I don’t think we talk about that today. I think it is an important piece of the puzzle. The original intent clearly was to have interaction between timelines. With random assignments that is sure to still exist to some degree. At some point I expect we have sufficient information to bring our QTs to bear and divulging who has who right now seems like a poor play for Town.

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #176 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:07:01 pm »

I’m definitely feeling the not-my-timeline lethargy, although it hasn’t inhibited me from reading so maybe having some folks with birds eye views will help.

I don’t quite understand what Faust’s plan gets us. More people italic voting, and then a point where the people in the active timeline are forced to vote that way even if it’s against their own judgement as a loyalty test. That feels like it would feel really icky to the people being forced to vote that way, although it does provide an incentive for the non-actives to participate. I’m not sure that is a net gain, but I’m sure there is much I don’t understand.

I am also unsure what the shared qt is for right now. :/

scolapasta · « **Reply #177 on:** May 05, 2021, 11:18:18 pm »

Quote from: WestCoastDidds on May 05, 2021, 11:07:01 pm

I’m definitely feeling the not-my-timeline lethargy, although it hasn’t inhibited me from reading so maybe having some folks with birds eye views will help.

I don’t quite understand what Faust’s plan gets us. More people italic voting, and then a point where the people in the active timeline are forced to vote that way even if it’s against their own judgement as a loyalty test. That feels like it would feel really icky to the people being forced to vote that way, although it does provide an incentive for the non-actives to participate. I’m not sure that is a net gain, but I’m sure there is much I don’t understand.

I am also unsure what the shared qt is for right now. :/

Ditto. As a forward, I'll follow along, sure, but I don't expect to be posting much.

I do have to say, I do feel a kindred spirit with my other forwards. But of course when I will be able to vote, it's just on them, so meh.

ashersky · « **Reply #178 on:** May 06, 2021, 12:51:59 am »

Some further thoughts on "the plan":

--it requires all players of the active timeline to agree to exile whomever is selected in italics. That seems...difficult at best. Easy enough to say you will, then adamantly refuse when the italicized exile is a strong town read or mafia partner.

--it only works on Day 1. After the exile, there's a fairly clear breakdown of players by timeline, and then it's all moot. Someone could just track bolded votes.

--mafia can definitely control this to their advantage. At worst, they get all the information they need for night actions. Imagine some powers only working on members of a certain timeline, or active timeline.

--that said, I don't necessarily think that means the plan came from mafia, as it was probably easier to just get people to claim.

--the italicized votes idea is strictly to hide timelines until the end of the day. If players don't care or don't want to hide their timeline, though, no reason to force it. As we've seen. This could just have easily been done with popsquizes and weights. So that makes the plan seem like more of a plan than it actually is, which could be a credgrab.

Other thoughts:

--what if timelines are randomly assigned and all mafia are in one timeline. That makes the other timeline even more useless.

--has everyone posted yet?

faust · « **Reply #179 on:** May 06, 2021, 01:03:15 am »

Quote from: mathdude on May 05, 2021, 05:46:56 pm

We're all so stuck on whether this plan is good or not, we're actually not getting anywhere useful. Good job faust. Your plan is working.

Fuck you too.

Swowl · « **Reply #180 on:** May 06, 2021, 01:56:52 am »

We have all taken the civility pledge. Please abide by it.

ashersky · « **Reply #181 on:** May 06, 2021, 02:49:52 am »

Quote from: Swowl on August 18, 2020, 12:26:21 am

TIMELINE MECHANICS
1.   All players in this game will be evenly divided into 2 “Timelines” – Forward and Reverse.
2.   Every Day and Night Phase will belong to a specific Timeline – Either Forward or Reverse.
a.   During the Day, all players alive may post as usual in the game thread. However, only the players on the Active Timeline will be allowed to vote or use PRs.
b.   Additionally, players will only be allowed to vote for players on the Active Timeline.
c.   During the Night, only players on the Active Timeline will be allowed to take actions.
d.   Night actions can target any player, regardless of which Timeline they belong to.
3.   Active Timelines will begin at the Start of Day and end at the conclusion of the following Night.

TIMELINE QT MECHANICS:
3.   When either player from the same QT dies, it will be closed for the remainder of the game.

A few tidbits of public information to discuss, because setup discussion is always...something.

I think #2 and #3 sort of define the same thing -- the "active period" of a timeline is always a day+night cycle. An active timeline can't start at the beginning of the night, for example. Seems that night actions could affect what timeline is active for the next cycle.

#2a CLEARLY hints at day powers. I mean, use PRs is written there after "during the day." There's a separate rule for actions at night at 2d. So yeah, day powers.

For the QT #3, closed after a death always feels suspect to me. Like, why not let the living player share thoughts or gloat? Because the dead player might come back, perhaps...

So those are thoughts. We can discuss them if you want. Or not.

pingpongsam · « **Reply #182 on:** May 06, 2021, 06:45:36 am »

I saw the day power potential as well. Complete WIFOM. Either possibility exists.

Closed QTs are for mod sanity is the simplest explanation but reincarnation is not out of the question.

WestCoastDidds · « **Reply #183 on:** May 06, 2021, 08:10:53 am »

@Ahersky, I think we haven’t seen chairs here.

And hupercube just did a drive by, be back. I believe everyone else has posted.

MiX · « **Reply #184 on:** May 06, 2021, 08:28:52 am »

Okay let's get out of mechanical discussion.

Everyone who is reverse timeline, either vote in bold or vote in italic. You're playing this day, act like it. Everyone else, I'd suggest you vote in italic anyway, even if you don't intend to care about your vote, it would provide cover to people that don't want to claim.

For gkrieg: yeah, it can help scum to only have a few people say their timeline, but this only affects D1, so I think it helps town more overall.

Ash, I disagree with almost everything you're saying, Swowl putting down possibilities doesn't mean they have to be in the game IMO, this doesn't matter because we disagree on everything, but still.

We need to put down a deadline for the italic votes. I vote for a full IRL day before the actual deadline, so 3:25 pm 5/10. It's very likely no decision would have been made, and I don't think we should make it plurality, but if there is a majority of players that want to exile someone, I think we should do that.

Vote: faust, if there's any game where it can be correct to exile faust D1, it's this one, he's basically doing what scum!faust does, which is create chaos through order. Also Space isn't around to say if what he's doing is logical or not, so I need to keep a closer eye on him. Not to mention I can't pressure anyone else realistically, people that have claimed reverse timeline are basically stating they don't care about pressure, and the people that haven't claimed don't need to react to votes at all.

I'd love to see more votes from everyone, or we're not going to do much today.

mathdude · « **Reply #185 on:** May 06, 2021, 08:29:23 am »

There have been a number of people agreeing with faust's strategy but very few italic votes and no recent italic vote count. There has also been mention of seeing an early deadline to get these votes in but no follow-up. And we're losing time.

There have also been some people who disagree, yet have not proven their Timeline by means of a vote. So that's not helpful either.

Even though I don't think it's helpful, FWIW, I wil...
FoS: faust
I mean...
vote: faust
Request vote count.

Also, request vote count.
Proud request: chairs.

PPE1 - thank you MiX!

mathdude · « **Reply #186 on:** May 06, 2021, 08:31:59 am »

EBWOP
That was supposed to say
prod request: chairs.

hypercube · « **Reply #187 on:** May 06, 2021, 08:32:07 am »

OK I'm getting caught up here, first off to those I haven't played with before hello!, and I use he/him pronouns just fyi.

Since it seems trivial to determine what timelines people are on I'll go ahead and just say that I'm on the reverse timeline. For now I'm operating under the assumption that at some point the timelines will merge or at least people will get swapped between them since that seems like the most likely way to deal with the potential lategame weirdness.

In regards to the italic voting plan, I'm in favour of binding the choice of exile to the wishes of the overall majority. The voting should only be allowed for people in the active timeline though - it seems obvious to me that trying to pass off exiles to some unknown future day is a bad idea and it's strange to me that faust didn't make this explicit when bringing it up (possibly because he seems to want no-exile D1?).

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 06:06:46 am

It would be easier because this is an RMM with supercharged investigative PRs.

Also re. faust - what is this? Either it's creating WIFOM for no obvious reason or it's rolefishing bait. Feels scummy to me in any case.

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 08:41:30 pm

Re ash's #4. This is an interesting point. Maybe there's a third party who can target both timelines.

Why would this change anything?

MiX · « **Reply #188 on:** May 06, 2021, 08:33:41 am »

Italic vote count 1.1

MiX (1): faust
faust (2): MiX, math

Not Voting (13): EFHW, WCD, scolapasta, chairs, hypercube, Joth, Galzria, Ashersky, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus, gkrieg, Dylan

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to exile. The italic day 1 ends at 3:25 pm, May 10th

hypercube · « **Reply #189 on:** May 06, 2021, 08:59:13 am »

It's occurred to me that timelines merging matches the narrative structure of the movie, so that's a minor point suggesting that that will happen at some point.

EFHW, Dylan, ashersky all have said that the advantage of the italic voting plan is in concealing people's timelines - these are first of all not really possible to conceal as has been pointed out already, and also there seems to be obvious advantages to letting everyone vote. I'm not sure if not picking up on that is scummy or towny though.

pingpongsam · « **Reply #190 on:** May 06, 2021, 09:44:24 am »

Quote from: MiX on May 06, 2021, 08:28:52 am

Okay let's get out of mechanical discussion.

Everyone who is reverse timeline, either vote in bold or vote in italic. You're playing this day, act like it. Everyone else, I'd suggest you vote in italic anyway, even if you don't intend to care about your vote, it would provide cover to people that don't want to claim.

For gkrieg: yeah, it can help scum to only have a few people say their timeline, but this only affects D1, so I think it helps town more overall.

Ash, I disagree with almost everything you're saying, Swowl putting down possibilities doesn't mean they have to be in the game IMO, this doesn't matter because we disagree on everything, but still.

We need to put down a deadline for the italic votes. I vote for a full IRL day before the actual deadline, so 3:25 pm 5/10. It's very likely no decision would have been made, and I don't think we should make it plurality, but if there is a majority of players that want to exile someone, I think we should do that.

Vote: faust, if there's any game where it can be correct to exile faust D1, it's this one, he's basically doing what scum!faust does, which is create chaos through order. Also Space isn't around to say if what he's doing is logical or not, so I need to keep a closer eye on him. Not to mention I can't pressure anyone else realistically, people that have claimed reverse timeline are basically stating they don't care about pressure, and the people that haven't claimed don't need to react to votes at all.

I'd love to see more votes from everyone, or we're not going to do much today.

Great energy, I am digging this.

Vote: MiX

Awaclus · « **Reply #191 on:** May 06, 2021, 10:30:58 am »

Vote: MiX

faust · « **Reply #192 on:** May 06, 2021, 11:10:28 am »

Quote from: hypercube on May 06, 2021, 08:32:07 am

Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 06:06:46 am
It would be easier because this is an RMM with supercharged investigative PRs.

Also re. faust - what is this? Either it's creating WIFOM for no obvious reason or it's rolefishing bait. Feels scummy to me in any case.

Every investigative role has a QT, i.e. they can share their results without having to claim.

mathdude · « **Reply #193 on:** May 06, 2021, 11:53:53 am »

Quote from: pingpongsam on May 06, 2021, 09:44:24 am

Quote from: MiX on May 06, 2021, 08:28:52 am
(Lots of thoughts)

Great energy, I am digging this.

Vote: MiX

FoS: pps and Awaclus

hypercube · « **Reply #194 on:** May 06, 2021, 12:03:20 pm »

Quote from: faust on May 06, 2021, 11:10:28 am

Quote from: hypercube on May 06, 2021, 08:32:07 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 06:06:46 am
It would be easier because this is an RMM with supercharged investigative PRs.

Also re. faust - what is this? Either it's creating WIFOM for no obvious reason or it's rolefishing bait. Feels scummy to me in any case.
Every investigative role has a QT, i.e. they can share their results without having to claim.

Ah, I see, thanks.

Glooble · « **Reply #195 on:** May 06, 2021, 12:06:05 pm »

Quote from: faust on May 06, 2021, 11:10:28 am

Quote from: hypercube on May 06, 2021, 08:32:07 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 06:06:46 am
It would be easier because this is an RMM with supercharged investigative PRs.

Also re. faust - what is this? Either it's creating WIFOM for no obvious reason or it's rolefishing bait. Feels scummy to me in any case.
Every investigative role has a QT, i.e. they can share their results without having to claim.

Except they have no idea if their QT-mate is town, so they may not want to reveal to that person that they have an investigative role.

mathdude · « **Reply #196 on:** May 06, 2021, 12:16:31 pm »

Quote from: Glooble on May 06, 2021, 12:06:05 pm

Quote from: faust on May 06, 2021, 11:10:28 am
Quote from: hypercube on May 06, 2021, 08:32:07 am
Quote from: faust on May 05, 2021, 06:06:46 am
It would be easier because this is an RMM with supercharged investigative PRs.

Also re. faust - what is this? Either it's creating WIFOM for no obvious reason or it's rolefishing bait. Feels scummy to me in any case.
Every investigative role has a QT, i.e. they can share their results without having to claim.

Except they have no idea if their QT-mate is town, so they may not want to reveal to that person that they have an investigative role.

Exactly this. But I can see why faust wants investigative roles to share with their partners... or helps out him and his team if one of them can get info from town.

EFHW · « **Reply #197 on:** May 06, 2021, 12:38:16 pm »

Quote from: hypercube on May 06, 2021, 08:32:07 am

Quote from: EFHW on May 05, 2021, 08:41:30 pm
Re ash's #4. This is an interesting point. Maybe there's a third party who can target both timelines.

Why would this change anything?

If only mafia are left from one timeline, then they can't be exiled by players on the other timeline. If there is one large team, then town is at a big disadvantage. If there are two teams, then there could be two winners. Or, there could be someone able to vote or kill players from either timeline so that no one gets to be immortal due to the timeline restrictions.

EFHW · « **Reply #198 on:** May 06, 2021, 12:41:10 pm »

Quote from: hypercube on May 06, 2021, 08:59:13 am

It's occurred to me that timelines merging matches the narrative structure of the movie, so that's a minor point suggesting that that will happen at some point.

EFHW, Dylan, ashersky all have said that the advantage of the italic voting plan is in concealing people's timelines - these are first of all not really possible to conceal as has been pointed out already, and also there seems to be obvious advantages to letting everyone vote. I'm not sure if not picking up on that is scummy or towny though.

No, you have that backwards. The advantage of concealing timelines is that the italics plan could preserve some agency for the forward timeline folks. There are probably too many known timelines at this point for it to work, though.

EFHW · « **Reply #199 on:** May 06, 2021, 12:43:47 pm »

vote: joth. Feels very much like his last scum game.

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