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Author Topic: Command-type cards and duration cards with emptied pile in next turn  (Read 2701 times)

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gambit05

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Assuming the following scenario:
I play a Band of Misfits or an Overlord (with the new Command type) and choose a duration card as target, which happens to be the last one of its pile (and due to the Command instruction remains there). Then an opponent gains that card before my next turn, thereby emptying that pile.
At the start of my next turn, can I play the second part of the duration card, which now is not anymore there?
 
What happens in this situation, if I have chosen Haven (or Gear) as target, and set aside card(s) to them, and thus move them to the respective supply pile?
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hhelibebcnofnena

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You've already played it, so you get to take the next turn part. Any cards you set aside under the other cards are still set aside. Even if they are physically under a card in the supply, they are not a part of the supply.
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Ingix

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Right. The "next turn" effect of Duration cards is created during their resolution, it doesn't need to be in play or anywhere accessible next turn

Before last year's errata, you could for example Procession a Hireling, thus end up with the Hireling card not in play in future turns and still draw 2 cards at the start of each of your turns for the 2 times it was played.
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Jack Rudd

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Right. The "next turn" effect of Duration cards is created during their resolution, it doesn't need to be in play or anywhere accessible next turn

Before last year's errata, you could for example Procession a Hireling, thus end up with the Hireling card not in play in future turns and still draw 2 cards at the start of each of your turns for the 2 times it was played.
You can still do much the same by Inheriting Hireling, and Processioning an Estate.
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gambit05

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You've already played it, so you get to take the next turn part. Any cards you set aside under the other cards are still set aside. Even if they are physically under a card in the supply, they are not a part of the supply.

That was my gut feeling for resolving those cards. Thanks!
However, it might be quite challenging IRL to track which set aside cards belong to which Command card and even to which player, especially in a multi-player game, e.g. (I added some "action multipliers" to spice it even more up):


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Co0kieL0rd

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Jeez, I do NOT want to play this kingdom, at all!
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Jeebus

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Assuming the following scenario:
I play a Band of Misfits or an Overlord (with the new Command type) and choose a duration card as target, which happens to be the last one of its pile (and due to the Command instruction remains there).

You're confusing the Command type with the "play it and leave it there" mechanic - a common confusion. Band of Misfits, Overlord, Captain, Necromancer, Inheritance, and Way of the Mouse all say "play the card, leaving it there". Only some of these have the Command type, and that's because of something else, namely preventing loops.

(I actually think they all should have the Command type, to make it consistent and easy to explain, but Donald thought it was better to only give it to those that needed it.)

AJD

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I think expecting Way of the Mouse to have the Command type would require just the kind of shapeshifting Donald's trying to avoid.
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Jeebus

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I think expecting Way of the Mouse to have the Command type would require just the kind of shapeshifting Donald's trying to avoid.

Originally I formed that opinion when there was no Way of the Mouse. And I was right that it would have been less confusing, because now everybody thinks "Command" is because of the instruction. But you're right that with Way of the Mouse it can't really be done. So in the end it couldn't be consistent anyway as long as we have something like Way of the Mouse.

GendoIkari

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I think expecting Way of the Mouse to have the Command type would require just the kind of shapeshifting Donald's trying to avoid.

Originally I formed that opinion when there was no Way of the Mouse. And I was right that it would have been less confusing, because now everybody thinks "Command" is because of the instruction. But you're right that with Way of the Mouse it can't really be done. So in the end it couldn't be consistent anyway as long as we have something like Way of the Mouse.

Like attack cards; this is another situation where I feel like a bunch of things could have been keywords instead of types, if such a thing existed in Dominion. People seem to look at types and assume that they have built-in rules (attack means it hurts the other player; command means it plays another card, leaving it there; etc). When really those types have no meaning whatsoever outside of allowing other cards to refer to them.
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gambit05

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Assuming the following scenario:
I play a Band of Misfits or an Overlord (with the new Command type) and choose a duration card as target, which happens to be the last one of its pile (and due to the Command instruction remains there).

You're confusing the Command type with the "play it and leave it there" mechanic - a common confusion. Band of Misfits, Overlord, Captain, Necromancer, Inheritance, and Way of the Mouse all say "play the card, leaving it there". Only some of these have the Command type, and that's because of something else, namely preventing loops.


(I actually think they all should have the Command type, to make it consistent and easy to explain, but Donald thought it was better to only give it to those that needed it.)

No, I don't think I am confusing the type Command with the new instructions. In the original post, I just wanted to identify about which version of Band of Misfits I was talking. Sorry, if that was unclear, I think the misleading part was what I wrote in parenthesis (highlighted above in bold).
My point rather was: In the previous version of BoM, the instruction was: "This is that card until it leaves play" instead of "play...., leaving it there" in the newest version. Thus, I wondered what happens when an opponent gains the BoM'ed duration card from the supply before my next turn (which also happens to be the last of its pile), when I (want to) continue to play the BoM'ed duration card (and pick up set aside cards) in my next turn. In the previous version of BoM, this was not a problem, because the selected duration card is still in my playing area (along with set aside cards), and thus cannot be gained by other players before my next turn.

Edit: I just realized that already the title of this thread is misleading. Anyway, the question was intended as it has been stated here with an emphasis on "leaving it there".
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 02:52:55 pm by gambit05 »
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Jeebus

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No, I don't think I am confusing the type Command with the new instructions. In the original post, I just wanted to identify about which version of Band of Misfits I was talking. Sorry, if that was unclear, I think the misleading part was what I wrote in parenthesis (highlighted above in bold).
My point rather was: In the previous version of BoM, the instruction was: "This is that card until it leaves play" instead of "play...., leaving it there" in the newest version. Thus, I wondered what happens when an opponent gains the BoM'ed duration card from the supply before my next turn (which also happens to be the last of its pile), when I (want to) continue to play the BoM'ed duration card (and pick up set aside cards) in my next turn. In the previous version of BoM, this was not a problem, because the selected duration card is still in my playing area (along with set aside cards), and thus cannot be gained by other players before my next turn.

Edit: I just realized that already the title of this thread is misleading. Anyway, the question was intended as it has been stated here with an emphasis on "leaving it there".

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse the topic of this thread. What I wrote was just a side comment, not meant to address what you asked about, which (as you say) has nothing to do with "Command" or not. But hopefully the answers that others have given to your question have made it clear for you.

gambit05

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Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse the topic of this thread. What I wrote was just a side comment, not meant to address what you asked about, which (as you say) has nothing to do with "Command" or not. But hopefully the answers that others have given to your question have made it clear for you.

Don't worry. Actually, what I wrote was confusing, and not as intended. My not so well formulated questions have been answered, especially with "You've already played it, so you get to take the next turn part."  by hhelibebcnofnena. However, it may still be a mess to track all the set aside cards, as I addressed it in my second post.
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