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[MiX]

Of course if chairs is scum, I should've hammered, but as people voting for me thinking I'm chairs' partner are saying (why didn't YOU guys hammer chairs, huh?), I'm not that sure chairs is scum.

chairs looks scummy, Galz looks scummy, but I haven't given it much thought.

Which probably means they're both town...

I caught scum already. Why do I need to do more?

The scumteam's joth/pops/chairs by the way. Just exile all of them and win!

Birthdays are a social construct designed to artificially inflate capitalistic tendencies among the masses.

And this is why you're scum.

It's the chairs freeze effect, where chairs says a bunch of nonsense and no one can say anything anymore.

Kinda makes me wanna exile him tbh, but he's the least-likely-to-be-scum scumread I have.

Swowl and joth both feel towny to me. @MiX, why aren't you jumping about like usual?

I caught scum. It's joth/pops/chairs. The game's over.

Why do I need to jump?

Chairs is doing really crazy shenanigans which at this point I think is scummy, but he could be town. I feel like he would be saying more meaningful things as town, and the same amount of fluffyness.

Read bolded.

[MiX]

Day 3 voting record (new format)

1087 Galzria v. EFHW (1)
1089 faust v. MiX (1)
1094 scolapasta v. EFHW (2, with Galzria)
1108 scolapasta v. MiX (2, with faust)
1120 Dylan v. scolapasta (1)
1122 chairs v. MiX (3, with faust, scolapasta)
1163 Swowl v. EFHW (2, with Galzria)
1068 MiX v. Dylan (1)
1195 EFHW v. scolapasta (2, with Dylan)
1209 Dylan v. MiX (4, with faust, scolapasta, chairs)
1214 EFHW v. Dylan (2, with MiX)
1252 chairs v. Dylan (3, with MiX, EFHW)
1255 scolapasta v. faust (1)
1261 Swowl v. Dylan (4, with MiX, EFHW, chairs)
1262 Dylan v. Swowl (1)
1263 Galzria hammers Dylan (5, with MiX, EFHW, chairs, Swowl)

Awesome, that's sorta the format I use, sure will speed things up.

I wonder what scum was thinking yesterday. They have 2 misexiles lined up (me and a PR) and with good luck they can get the other PR. What would you do in a scenario like that?

[EFHW]

What are you trying to show with the bolded part? That seems like you are still saying he is scummy.

[EFHW]

I missed the first two - ok, but in the last one you still think he is scummy. And you made the statement that chairs was caught scum twice, with the second time coming after the first two statements you bolded.

[MiX]

I missed the first two - ok, but in the last one you still think he is scummy. And you made the statement that chairs was caught scum twice, with the second time coming after the first two statements you bolded.

It's called having second thoughts, and with the EoD1 that we had, all of my scumreads were viable wagons, so why would I hammer the one I believe is most town?

[MiX]

Hey, here's something that I just realized. Given Isis' NK N2, scum probably knew they were a cop. Knowing that, they could easily find out who they copped from what they were doing itt D2. Which means scum most likely eventually knew I was copped (since they know who was framed, or because I'm scum and looking at Isis very closely).

Does my D2 play match knowing that Isis copped me? What do people think?

And yes I'm still defending myself, I feel like it's important that town isn't divided by my alignment.

[MiX]

faust case first, not only is he my top scumread (so, probably town), it's also the quickest. Also, Swowl/Galzria are town, in case someone needed to hear that again.

As galzria has explained any of my posts that reference hearthstone cards are not game posts so let me have a private chat with swowy please 

Could you maybe make friends on FaceBook and not clutter the game thread?

I find it harder to feel like I'm really a part of the game when there's lots of conversation about stuff I have zero knowledge or interest in that's totally unrelated to mafia. The usual example (from my perspective) is alcohol, but Hearthstone seems to fit the bill. It's not inclusive fluff like what Didds posts, where at least it feels like she's trying to build community with everyone... if you're posting a load of stuff that only makes sense to people who've already invested in getting to know about whatever it is you're posting, then that's kind of clique-y, and I think it's easily anti-town because you're upping the number of excuses people have for not engaging when the thread is full of stuff that means nothing to them.

Vote: Popsofctown

yeah, pretty much this.
vote: Swowl

Weird post. LL spends the previous posts scumreading joth, and then throws away their vote for this. Not that scummy, but just something of note.

vote: chairs, X-1

Votes with Robz to put chairs at X-1. Townie? This vote marks the end of scum's worries, but then again so did Robz's.

vote: MiX

Then pivots to me, leaving the chairs wagon. Null...? Null.

LL's day 1 can be summed up in 2 points: they scumread joth, and then they follow Robz. So almost as worse reads as myself. I can't get much from this.

Okay, faust's D2 is slightly bigger.

Okay, kind of skimmed the thread now. So much DAMA, must be Corona-induced.

I also feel comfortable with the OMGUS now.

Vote: chairs

Gets in the thread, asks around, plants their vote on chairs. At this point the wagons were me, Robz and Space, so this creates another one, although the Space wagon is a bus so it's fake.

Now the 4 scummiest posts:

This Galz wagon seems too sudden, and 2/3 of them (Robz and Isis) are the same people who were voting for me not long ago, along with Chairs.

I'm not ready to give up suspicion on the MiX/Chairs pairing.

Vote: Chairs

Hi!

I don't think sudden wagons are scummy, and this one isn't even particularly big.

Bad Robz. Bad Isis. Bad Chairs.

What about Dylan though? Is he not bad?

Vote: Robz

Throwing some votes around as requested.

I will say that the whole "the focus remains on MiX/chairs so they are likely both town" line of reasoning is pretty awful.

Like sure, that is an explanation. But also:

- if they're 1 scum/1 town - scum doesn't want to abandon the town wagon as that might lead to a situation where the scum is the only viable exile. So the focus remains there.
- if they're both scum - pretty likely that scum is bussing and if that's their strategy then there is no reason to give it up now.

So, this is to those supporting that theory: Start making better arguments.

These 4 do everything scum!faust wants to do in his position: throw shade on everyone, bus his partner. I mean really, he gives reasons for town to scumread 4 people (Galz, Dylan, me and chairs) and votes someone completely different for no (given) reason. This gives him a great standpoint to pivot into everything, including Robz for cred if necessary.

Everyone prefers chairs to Galz, so let's do it!

Vote: chairs

What happened to Robz? Why is he voting chairs again? I'm sure he'll answer this eventually, right...? No, that never happens.

Also the way he framed it is weird. The wagons were tied. But Space said they preferred chairs, so now everyone does? Because that's the post immediately before this one.

Vote: Robz

And the vote that gives faust all the towncred. More null than townie, but not scummy, as there were 2 viable wagons scum could've gone to, not to mention my own.

Day 3's less important, but we can still look at it:

I just reread bits of D2 and like... Isis had a scum result on MiX.

Vote: MiX

I can pull more quotes, but the entire day is just faust pushing me. Which is...correct? So I don't have much to say about that. What I do have to say is that I believe scum's on the Dylan wagon. With less chaos, it was very likely we didn't exile either PR claim, there's no way scum would pass that up. Unfortunately it happened over european night, so faust not being on the wagon could just be a coincidence.

So overall this is slightly scummy. What's being done helps scum, but town can definitely do this.

I'm not sure if he should be exiled. Maybe, just because scum was all caught D2 and he was basically gone for D1 and D2? Last time I saw 2 scum caught quickly the third scum was replaced, but it happened D1 which makes more sense.

My vote belongs here, but it's not as good as my Dylan case. Which probably just means I'm less tired and making better decisions.

[faust]

Hey, here's something that I just realized. Given Isis' NK N2, scum probably knew they were a cop. Knowing that, they could easily find out who they copped from what they were doing itt D2. Which means scum most likely eventually knew I was copped (since they know who was framed, or because I'm scum and looking at Isis very closely).

Does my D2 play match knowing that Isis copped me? What do people think?

And yes I'm still defending myself, I feel like it's important that town isn't divided by my alignment.

Too many assumptions. Isis was a reasonable kill even if they weren't aware of her PR-ness. Or maybe they just read her as a PR, no result needed. Scum would have needed code to communicate the result anyways, if you can show me where Robz used that maybe I'll believe you.

[faust]

Oh nevermind, daychat and all.

[faust]

Oh nevermind, daychat and all.

By this, I am now definitely conf!town.

[faust]

Now the 4 scummiest posts:

This Galz wagon seems too sudden, and 2/3 of them (Robz and Isis) are the same people who were voting for me not long ago, along with Chairs.

I'm not ready to give up suspicion on the MiX/Chairs pairing.

Vote: Chairs

Hi!

I don't think sudden wagons are scummy, and this one isn't even particularly big.

Bad Robz. Bad Isis. Bad Chairs.

What about Dylan though? Is he not bad?

Vote: Robz

Throwing some votes around as requested.

I will say that the whole "the focus remains on MiX/chairs so they are likely both town" line of reasoning is pretty awful.

Like sure, that is an explanation. But also:

- if they're 1 scum/1 town - scum doesn't want to abandon the town wagon as that might lead to a situation where the scum is the only viable exile. So the focus remains there.
- if they're both scum - pretty likely that scum is bussing and if that's their strategy then there is no reason to give it up now.

So, this is to those supporting that theory: Start making better arguments.

These 4 do everything scum!faust wants to do in his position: throw shade on everyone, bus his partner. I mean really, he gives reasons for town to scumread 4 people (Galz, Dylan, me and chairs) and votes someone completely different for no (given) reason. This gives him a great standpoint to pivot into everything, including Robz for cred if necessary.

I don't see how any of these gives reasons for a scumread. Well, maybe the first one gives a reason to scumread Space, but that's not the argument made. Saying a reason that someone is town is bad is not the same as giving a reason for why they're scum. I'm allergic to bad reasoning, is all. Okay, I was scumreading chairs at the time, maybe I had ulterior motives.

And you're surprised that I voted for someone without a given reason? How long have we been playing together, exactly?

Everyone prefers chairs to Galz, so let's do it!

Vote: chairs

What happened to Robz? Why is he voting chairs again? I'm sure he'll answer this eventually, right...? No, that never happens.

Also the way he framed it is weird. The wagons were tied. But Space said they preferred chairs, so now everyone does? Because that's the post immediately before this one.

Maybe if you had done your research more then one post back (and really, 3 posts back is all you needed), you'd have seen this:

still prefer chairs to galz.

I kind of prefer chairs to galzria as a guttak

Obviously I prefer Chairs to Galz.

[MiX]

Oh nevermind, daychat and all.

By this, I am now definitely conf!town.

Accurate. Also you're just correct elsewhere.

Unvote, my case is pretty weak and you refuted the best parts of it.

Who's scum, scola or EFHW?

[faust]

Oh nevermind, daychat and all.

By this, I am now definitely conf!town.

Accurate. Also you're just correct elsewhere.

Unvote, my case is pretty weak and you refuted the best parts of it.

Who's scum, scola or EFHW?

It's you.

But if it's not, then it's EFHW.

[MiX]

Okay.

Vote: EFHW, I agree.

[faust]

Though I've been completely discounting scum!Galzria and I'm not exactly sure why.

[MiX]

Though I've been completely discounting scum!Galzria and I'm not exactly sure why.

If Galz is scum, I'm not quite sure what scum was doing D2. They were too stretched thin for any misexiles to occur.

There's also other things, like his vote on Robz EoD2 is what allowed Robz to be quickexiled.

I can make my next ISO be Galzria, would that be better than EFHW's for you?

[faust]

I can make my next ISO be Galzria, would that be better than EFHW's for you?

It would since I already reread EFHW.

[EFHW]

Though I've been completely discounting scum!Galzria and I'm not exactly sure why.

I've been struggling with this, too. His push for the Robz lynch gives him a lot of towncred for me. Do you think he would be bold enough to pull that off as scum? Daytalk would help a lot, since he could get the go ahead from his partners first. Timing was crucial. Otherwise, I felt or imagined remnants of Modern Community (when scum!Robz fooled town!Galz in their neighborhood qt) and didn't see Galz and Robz as partners.

[scolapasta]

Though I've been completely discounting scum!Galzria and I'm not exactly sure why.

I've been struggling with this, too. His push for the Robz lynch gives him a lot of towncred for me. Do you think he would be bold enough to pull that off as scum? Daytalk would help a lot, since he could get the go ahead from his partners first. Timing was crucial. Otherwise, I felt or imagined remnants of Modern Community (when scum!Robz fooled town!Galz in their neighborhood qt) and didn't see Galz and Robz as partners.

Thirded.

Throughout the game, my general feel for everyone (still alive) other than MiX has been town. I have had the occasional vote for each of y'all (except Swowl, I think) but they were either uninformed or misguided (e.g. when I voted for EFHW for misremembering that she wasn't on the Robz wagon). So it's been a little bit of a challenge trying to even find somewhere to get started.

But, if I'm going to have to go back and revisit everyone, I'm not sure why I (and others seem to be doing this) should exclude Galz. (swowl still gets some leeway, because I still don't see him trying to putt off the false PR claim here).

I keep, however,  coming back to the simplest solution being the right one, i.e. MiX is scum. And not quite following why swowl and galz are so deadset against it. (if we didn't know for sure there was only 1 scum left, I'd start to suspect some kind of partner shenanigans).

MiX's iso's are useful, though I, at least, am taking them with a grain of salt and also reading them as scum trying to desperately make a case against the others. Just look at his Dylan wall, for a successfully made up case against town. And as a reminder, that case, created the entire PR chaos at the end of day 3.

[MiX]

And as a reminder, that case, created the entire PR chaos at the end of day 3.

I mean, no, I was asleep when Galzria asked Dylan to claim, and that's what made him get hammered.

[scolapasta]

And as a reminder, that case, created the entire PR chaos at the end of day 3.

I mean, no, I was asleep when Galzria asked Dylan to claim, and that's what made him get hammered.

Except your Dylan case is what got chairs to place his Dylan vote (vote #3) and was the inspiration for Galzria's question, and regardless, was definitely driving to get Dylan to X-1, where he would've felt the need to claim.

Even Dylan puts the responsibility on you:

MiX, you took everything from me (my secrecy at least).

Interestingly, this is the 2nd time you've used not being around for explaining away something I find inherently scummy.

[MiX]

And as a reminder, that case, created the entire PR chaos at the end of day 3.

I mean, no, I was asleep when Galzria asked Dylan to claim, and that's what made him get hammered.

Except your Dylan case is what got chairs to place his Dylan vote (vote #3) and was the inspiration for Galzria's question, and regardless, was definitely driving to get Dylan to X-1, where he would've felt the need to claim.

Even Dylan puts the responsibility on you:

MiX, you took everything from me (my secrecy at least).

Interestingly, this is the 2nd time you've used not being around for explaining away something I find inherently scummy.

Right, but framing it as "created the PR chaos" implies something that isn't true. If I was there, I would've unvoted.

Dylan blames me because well yes I wanted him to claim if he was a PR. But I didn't make him claim.

Your claims of what is scummy are flawed and I'm here to explain why that's the case.

[EFHW]

@Swowl, What's your take on Galz?

[scolapasta]

And as a reminder, that case, created the entire PR chaos at the end of day 3.

I mean, no, I was asleep when Galzria asked Dylan to claim, and that's what made him get hammered.

Except your Dylan case is what got chairs to place his Dylan vote (vote #3) and was the inspiration for Galzria's question, and regardless, was definitely driving to get Dylan to X-1, where he would've felt the need to claim.

Even Dylan puts the responsibility on you:

MiX, you took everything from me (my secrecy at least).

Interestingly, this is the 2nd time you've used not being around for explaining away something I find inherently scummy.

Right, but framing it as "created the PR chaos" implies something that isn't true. If I was there, I would've unvoted.

Dylan blames me because well yes I wanted him to claim if he was a PR. But I didn't make him claim.

Your claims of what is scummy are flawed and I'm here to explain why that's the case.

I'm glad you can admit that you wanted him to claim he was a PR. (as I've previously posted, I'm still not sure why antman!swowl wouldn't do this). It seems especially convenient to start the wheels on something, and then claim "I would have unvoted." Sure, maybe town you would've, but scum you would've been ecstatic that the plan worked and was away at the time to not unvote, no?

Also, saying you would've unvoted as scum is easy. Ironically, when I unvoted after chairs' claim, you voted for me.

[MiX]

Also, saying you would've unvoted as scum is easy. Ironically, when I unvoted after chairs' claim, you voted for me.

The unvote wasn't the scummy part. Outing a PR was.

I wish I was around when the Dylan claim went down, I could've established some order, and hopefully direct the wagon towards myself. But I wasn't there. So what can I do?

In retrospect I should've asked for the claim, but I thought if he was a PR he would've claimed earlier, given how he hammered Robz. I was wrong.