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[A Drowned Kernel]

Sorry for dragging that out Joseph

[skip wooznum]

Also, I found it oddly cathartic that scum, out of the goodness of their hearts, let Joseph win with them.

It's strange because I think it would be even more cathartic if they double crossed him. It would serve him right, the way he threw town to the wolves without even a second thought. Also, for not giving mix the bullet. 

[skip wooznum]

https://quicktopic.com/53/H/kSawcTvbZzis

My qt. Nothing interesting in it. Just me asking annoying questions and glooble mostly telling me he can't answer them.

[faust]

I'm still slightly confused about what the point of the Pawnbrokers was.

[sudgy]

I think scum made the right choice in killing me.  I was coming up with all sorts of lies to convince Joseph to keep helping us instead of scum.

[Joseph2302]

Also, I found it oddly cathartic that scum, out of the goodness of their hearts, let Joseph win with them.

It's strange because I think it would be even more cathartic if they double crossed him. It would serve him right, the way he threw town to the wolves without even a second thought. Also, for not giving mix the bullet.

Well I was half expecting they would try and kill me, in which case one of them would have died. Because apparently I'm a 1-shot passive redirector as well as everything else

[Joseph2302]

My QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/FbNgpQXEtZQ
Most interesting thing is how long my role is

[faust]

Also, I found it oddly cathartic that scum, out of the goodness of their hearts, let Joseph win with them.

It's strange because I think it would be even more cathartic if they double crossed him. It would serve him right, the way he threw town to the wolves without even a second thought. Also, for not giving mix the bullet.

Well I was half expecting they would try and kill me, in which case one of them would have died. Because apparently I'm a 1-shot passive redirector as well as everything else

That was already used up, as we tried and failed to steal from you before.

[skip wooznum]

Also, I found it oddly cathartic that scum, out of the goodness of their hearts, let Joseph win with them.

It's strange because I think it would be even more cathartic if they double crossed him. It would serve him right, the way he threw town to the wolves without even a second thought. Also, for not giving mix the bullet.

Well I was half expecting they would try and kill me, in which case one of them would have died. Because apparently I'm a 1-shot passive redirector as well as everything else

That was already used up, as we tried and failed to steal from you before.

The redirecting was exclusively for killing actions, so it wasn't used up. The reason your steal failed was that mail-mi jk'ed him which apparently makes him untargettable for any and all night actions.

[Glooble]

I'm still slightly confused about what the point of the Pawnbrokers was.

It was supposed to be a mechanic for helping items get to the right people faster, but it it didn’t really work.

[MiX]

Trading's anti-town because Pawnbrokers don't need items so there's no reason to do it in the first place. In practice it's a "you traded so you must be scum" "oh it's pro-me so I did it anyway" type of thing.

It says Treasure Hunter won but it was unbelievably out of Joseph's control to win that game, and he only won because scum wanted him to. That was a kingmaker decision all the way.

[faust]

It says Treasure Hunter won but it was unbelievably out of Joseph's control to win that game, and he only won because scum wanted him to. That was a kingmaker decision all the way.

Not sure what your point is? That is just something that can happen in mafia games. Why would you want Joseph to not have won here?

[MiX]

It says Treasure Hunter won but it was unbelievably out of Joseph's control to win that game, and he only won because scum wanted him to. That was a kingmaker decision all the way.

Not sure what your point is? That is just something that can happen in mafia games. Why would you want Joseph to not have won here?

There's two ways to see Joseph's position: he sided with scum because it's the only way for him to have a chance of winning, or he was kingmaking. I defend he was kingmaking.

Also /rant, I'm a bit miffed about my performance this game.

[jotheonah]

I'd be interested to know a little more about how you came up with the design.

I thought that a weakness of the setup was the fact that you told us outright that the "VT" was Generous Townie, which put scum in a very difficult position vis a vis fakeclaim. It also made it hard to pass items around meaningfully. Why force people to give items away?

[jotheonah]

If you're looking for a new game, mail-mi's stormlight game just needs 2 more friends!

[Glooble]

I'd be interested to know a little more about how you came up with the design.

I thought that a weakness of the setup was the fact that you told us outright that the "VT" was Generous Townie, which put scum in a very difficult position vis a vis fakeclaim. It also made it hard to pass items around meaningfully. Why force people to give items away?

Because I was afraid everyone would horde items if I didn’t.

[MiX]

So was the Gun the only item GTs didn't have to give?

[mail-mi]

Is there a mod QT?

[popsofctown]

kingmaking is always the fault of the designer

[Joseph2302]

It says Treasure Hunter won but it was unbelievably out of Joseph's control to win that game, and he only won because scum wanted him to. That was a kingmaker decision all the way.

Not sure what your point is? That is just something that can happen in mafia games. Why would you want Joseph to not have won here?

There's two ways to see Joseph's position: he sided with scum because it's the only way for him to have a chance of winning, or he was kingmaking. I defend he was kingmaking.

Also /rant, I'm a bit miffed about my performance this game.

The way I see it, there wasn't a way for me to win with town. To get 3 pieces withour their help would have taken 3 nights, and if we'd lynched faust then ADK would have killed the rest of fhe town by then

[sudgy]

It says Treasure Hunter won but it was unbelievably out of Joseph's control to win that game, and he only won because scum wanted him to. That was a kingmaker decision all the way.

Not sure what your point is? That is just something that can happen in mafia games. Why would you want Joseph to not have won here?

There's two ways to see Joseph's position: he sided with scum because it's the only way for him to have a chance of winning, or he was kingmaking. I defend he was kingmaking.

Also /rant, I'm a bit miffed about my performance this game.

The way I see it, there wasn't a way for me to win with town. To get 3 pieces withour their help would have taken 3 nights, and if we'd lynched faust then ADK would have killed the rest of fhe town by then

That's why I told you to try to steal the rope, so we could give it to skip and have skip keep roleblocking the last scum.

[mail-mi]

It says Treasure Hunter won but it was unbelievably out of Joseph's control to win that game, and he only won because scum wanted him to. That was a kingmaker decision all the way.

Not sure what your point is? That is just something that can happen in mafia games. Why would you want Joseph to not have won here?

There's two ways to see Joseph's position: he sided with scum because it's the only way for him to have a chance of winning, or he was kingmaking. I defend he was kingmaking.

Also /rant, I'm a bit miffed about my performance this game.

The way I see it, there wasn't a way for me to win with town. To get 3 pieces withour their help would have taken 3 nights, and if we'd lynched faust then ADK would have killed the rest of fhe town by then

That's why I told you to try to steal the rope, so we could give it to skip and have skip keep roleblocking the last scum.

Rope only had 30 feet, so you could only use it twice. I used the last of it on Joseph the night he was tied up.

[Galzria]

Eh, my D1 reads were generally pretty good.

[sudgy]

It says Treasure Hunter won but it was unbelievably out of Joseph's control to win that game, and he only won because scum wanted him to. That was a kingmaker decision all the way.

Not sure what your point is? That is just something that can happen in mafia games. Why would you want Joseph to not have won here?

There's two ways to see Joseph's position: he sided with scum because it's the only way for him to have a chance of winning, or he was kingmaking. I defend he was kingmaking.

Also /rant, I'm a bit miffed about my performance this game.

The way I see it, there wasn't a way for me to win with town. To get 3 pieces withour their help would have taken 3 nights, and if we'd lynched faust then ADK would have killed the rest of fhe town by then

That's why I told you to try to steal the rope, so we could give it to skip and have skip keep roleblocking the last scum.

Rope only had 30 feet, so you could only use it twice. I used the last of it on Joseph the night he was tied up.

Well, I didn't know that at the time.

[scolapasta]

It says Treasure Hunter won but it was unbelievably out of Joseph's control to win that game, and he only won because scum wanted him to. That was a kingmaker decision all the way.

Not sure what your point is? That is just something that can happen in mafia games. Why would you want Joseph to not have won here?

There's two ways to see Joseph's position: he sided with scum because it's the only way for him to have a chance of winning, or he was kingmaking. I defend he was kingmaking.

Also /rant, I'm a bit miffed about my performance this game.

The way I see it, there wasn't a way for me to win with town. To get 3 pieces withour their help would have taken 3 nights, and if we'd lynched faust then ADK would have killed the rest of fhe town by then

That's why I told you to try to steal the rope, so we could give it to skip and have skip keep roleblocking the last scum.

Rope only had 30 feet, so you could only use it twice. I used the last of it on Joseph the night he was tied up.

Well, I didn't know that at the time.

Wasn't the night you tied him up also the night he tried to steal?

I agree there was no way for Joseph to win without scum at that point. But we had to try. I don't think we could've gotten Joseph to vote faust that last day.

We just killed too many town too quickly.

I am glad I identified some things, albeit either too late, or to irrelevant:
• that telescope meant swan needed the magnifying glass
• that the hat (though it wasn't a a baseball cap) made you loved
• correct read (which was really sudgy's read) on faust, but it was too late.

Biggest regrets:
• I didn't push hard enough on the Sailor 1v1
• I leaned skip over mail-mi for too long (it started with an incorrect assumption that if two people needed the rope, their roles and usages of the rope would be different)


Overall, I think the game was a lot of fun and worth playing, though it did seem unbalanced in favor of scum - 4 scum, plus no town PRs to start, only if we got the right items, but scum could both kill and steal at night.

And I'll repeat that if there were a way to get an alt win condition (like the owl) it should allow for all players; i.e. non generous townies already had some "spice" with trying to get their items, then there was also this alt win, while we generous townies could do nothing but give items.