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Author Topic: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards  (Read 29519 times)

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Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #75 on: March 06, 2020, 05:14:44 pm »
0

I have come to my senses. I was thinking that all cost modificatition was always in effect. So Bridge would lower WF's cost to $5, but WF would set its cost to the last gained card, let's say $3 (from a gained Smithy now affected by Bridge), but then Bridge would lower it to $2. But if WF's own ability is also still in effect (just like the Bridge's), then it would reset itself to $3. Etc.

So yes, they are in conflict, and one has to win.

EDIT: So this means that (contrary to what I was saying earlier) we do need a special rule here. From the cards we can't know whether Bridge or WF takes precedence. But the rule could of course also had been that cost reductions take precedence, meaning that WF would end up costing $2. I feel like this would be a bit easier for players to grasp, and what people intuitively feel would happen: just always apply cost reducers.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 05:52:01 pm by Jeebus »
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mxdata

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2020, 06:10:06 pm »
+1

"The other minor theme is cards with weird costs; there are four of these"

So, what might the other two be?  We already had Peddler, which cares about the number of Action cards in play, and we now have Wayfarer that cares about the identity of the last gained card, and Animal Fair which is kind of like a Changeling in reverse.  Instead of trashing itself to gain another card, it trashes another card to gain itself.  Some other possibilities that come to mind:
  • A card whose cost depends on how many cards you've gained that turn (unlike Wayfarer, it would have to limit itself to cards you gained rather than cards anyone gained, otherwise it would be broken with cursing or junking attacks in multiplayer)
  • A card whose cost depends on how many Treasure cards you have in play
  • A card whose cost can increase under specific conditions
  • A card whose cost is lowered if you have copies of itself in play
  • A card whose cost cares about how many differently-named cards are in play, which would suit the Expansion name
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GendoIkari

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #77 on: March 06, 2020, 06:24:48 pm »
+2

"The other minor theme is cards with weird costs; there are four of these"

So, what might the other two be?  We already had Peddler, which cares about the number of Action cards in play, and we now have Wayfarer that cares about the identity of the last gained card, and Animal Fair which is kind of like a Changeling in reverse.  Instead of trashing itself to gain another card, it trashes another card to gain itself.  Some other possibilities that come to mind:
  • A card whose cost depends on how many cards you've gained that turn (unlike Wayfarer, it would have to limit itself to cards you gained rather than cards anyone gained, otherwise it would be broken with cursing or junking attacks in multiplayer)
  • A card whose cost depends on how many Treasure cards you have in play
  • A card whose cost can increase under specific conditions
  • A card whose cost is lowered if you have copies of itself in play
  • A card whose cost cares about how many differently-named cards are in play, which would suit the Expansion name

Iíd love to see another thing like Animal Fair, that has something you can pay other than coin. Come to think of it Duchess already did a similar thing, though itís different because gaining a Duchess doesnít use a buy.
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scolapasta

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #78 on: March 06, 2020, 06:27:10 pm »
+2

"The other minor theme is cards with weird costs; there are four of these"

So, what might the other two be?  We already had Peddler, which cares about the number of Action cards in play, and we now have Wayfarer that cares about the identity of the last gained card, and Animal Fair which is kind of like a Changeling in reverse.  Instead of trashing itself to gain another card, it trashes another card to gain itself.  Some other possibilities that come to mind:
  • A card whose cost depends on how many cards you've gained that turn (unlike Wayfarer, it would have to limit itself to cards you gained rather than cards anyone gained, otherwise it would be broken with cursing or junking attacks in multiplayer)
  • A card whose cost depends on how many Treasure cards you have in play
  • A card whose cost can increase under specific conditions
  • A card whose cost is lowered if you have copies of itself in play
  • A card whose cost cares about how many differently-named cards are in play, which would suit the Expansion name

How about a card that cares about # of cards left in its supply pile.  this could be your cost increase.

Also the " 5 or fewer" teaser.

"If there are 5 or fewer copies left in its supply pile, this card costs $1 more."

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FemurLemur

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #79 on: March 06, 2020, 06:28:24 pm »
0

As always long arguments about these things may gain some tiny amount from actually having the rulebook.

But that's like, days away from being released. We've gotta pass the time somehow :P

Also, FIVE reactions! That's a big win as far as I'm concerned! Move over, Hinterlands

And I really like the idea of the minor themes of weird timings and weird costs. I imagine they are likely to be cards that hold people's interests longer
EDIT: as far as future previews go, if this set has an alt-VP, I'd definitely be interested in seeing it.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 06:38:47 pm by FemurLemur »
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Donald X.

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #80 on: March 06, 2020, 06:29:38 pm »
+4

Rulings are great, but even better what backed by rules. Is there a general rule you can say that makes Wayfarer work that way; other than "Wayfarer is a special case"? Something like "abilities that set card costs to a specific value override cost reduction abilities". (In which case if you ever made a card with "while this is in play, all cards cost ", Bridge couldn't lower that cost).

Or, "Abilities on cards that change their own price are always evaluated after cost reduction". Or something.
It's the rule for Wayfarer; generalizing it doesn't do much until there's a second such card. I don't feel the compulsion to add rules like that. We thought through Wayfarer and time does not permit thinking through endless hypothetical cards.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #81 on: March 06, 2020, 07:07:24 pm »
+1

"The other minor theme is cards with weird costs; there are four of these"

So, what might the other two be?  We already had Peddler, which cares about the number of Action cards in play, and we now have Wayfarer that cares about the identity of the last gained card, and Animal Fair which is kind of like a Changeling in reverse.  Instead of trashing itself to gain another card, it trashes another card to gain itself.  Some other possibilities that come to mind:
  • A card whose cost depends on how many cards you've gained that turn (unlike Wayfarer, it would have to limit itself to cards you gained rather than cards anyone gained, otherwise it would be broken with cursing or junking attacks in multiplayer)
  • A card whose cost depends on how many Treasure cards you have in play
  • A card whose cost can increase under specific conditions
  • A card whose cost is lowered if you have copies of itself in play
  • A card whose cost cares about how many differently-named cards are in play, which would suit the Expansion name

How about a card that cares about # of cards left in its supply pile.  this could be your cost increase.

Also the " 5 or fewer" teaser.

"If there are 5 or fewer copies left in its supply pile, this card costs $1 more."

I donít see that happening because it would require you to count the pile every time you go to buy it, during a certain portion of the game.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #82 on: March 06, 2020, 07:08:13 pm »
+3


EDIT: as far as future previews go, if this set has an alt-VP, I'd definitely be interested in seeing it.

We know it doesnít; it was said in the first previews thread.
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scolapasta

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2020, 09:52:02 pm »
0

"The other minor theme is cards with weird costs; there are four of these"

So, what might the other two be?  We already had Peddler, which cares about the number of Action cards in play, and we now have Wayfarer that cares about the identity of the last gained card, and Animal Fair which is kind of like a Changeling in reverse.  Instead of trashing itself to gain another card, it trashes another card to gain itself.  Some other possibilities that come to mind:
  • A card whose cost depends on how many cards you've gained that turn (unlike Wayfarer, it would have to limit itself to cards you gained rather than cards anyone gained, otherwise it would be broken with cursing or junking attacks in multiplayer)
  • A card whose cost depends on how many Treasure cards you have in play
  • A card whose cost can increase under specific conditions
  • A card whose cost is lowered if you have copies of itself in play
  • A card whose cost cares about how many differently-named cards are in play, which would suit the Expansion name

How about a card that cares about # of cards left in its supply pile.  this could be your cost increase.

Also the " 5 or fewer" teaser.

"If there are 5 or fewer copies left in its supply pile, this card costs $1 more."

I donít see that happening because it would require you to count the pile every time you go to buy it, during a certain portion of the game.

Maybe not. Though something like that could be handled in the FAQ: setup: put the bottom 5 cards of this pile perpendicular to the top 5. But I guess that's not likely. It just seems like a potentially interesting use of "5 or fewer".
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Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2020, 10:11:25 pm »
+1

This time for no special reason I am going to keep previewing cards until the set comes out or the rulebook is posted. These cards won't be playable online (until the whole set comes out), they will just be images to look at and ponder. I'll do one a day, and if people request stuff they'd like to see, I'll try to pick one of those things. They can be kingdom cards or sideways ones.

I'd like to see the other two cards with weird costs if that's possible.

scolapasta

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2020, 10:43:56 pm »
0


This time for no special reason I am going to keep previewing cards until the set comes out or the rulebook is posted. These cards won't be playable online (until the whole set comes out), they will just be images to look at and ponder. I'll do one a day, and if people request stuff they'd like to see, I'll try to pick one of those things. They can be kingdom cards or sideways ones.

One a day, including on weekends? (i.e. do I need to set my alarm tonight for 3am again?  :P)

My vote is for... wow, I just changed mind from the teasers, to the reactions, to exile cards,... well you get the picture. I'm happy with anything, really.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2020, 11:59:41 pm »
+1

I think the Way you should go for the next preview is another Way.  8)
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Jeebus

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2020, 01:42:57 pm »
+1

Fun synergy I just spotted: having played Stonemason and chosen your first Action card to gain, your second choice can always be Wayfarer.

This works for both playing and overpaying for Stonemason, right?

Not if the card you trash is a Destrier and the first gained card costs $1 less than it!

michaeljb

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2020, 01:51:59 pm »
0

Fun synergy I just spotted: having played Stonemason and chosen your first Action card to gain, your second choice can always be Wayfarer.

This works for both playing and overpaying for Stonemason, right?

Not if the card you trash is a Destrier and the first gained card costs $1 less than it!

Just to make sure I follow...

Play Stonemason
1) trash Destrier ($6)
2) gain Livery ($5); Destrier now costs $5 because you've gained one card, Wayfarer costs $5 because you last gained a Livery
3) gain something costing less than $5 (Destrier's current cost)
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Ingix

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Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2020, 02:44:12 pm »
+3

Just to make sure I follow...

Play Stonemason
1) trash Destrier ($6)
2) gain Livery ($5); Destrier now costs $5 because you've gained one card, Wayfarer costs $5 because you last gained a Livery
3) gain something costing less than $5 (Destrier's current cost)

Correct.
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