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Author Topic: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (MAFIA WIN!)  (Read 89600 times)

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raerae

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #750 on: February 19, 2020, 10:27:56 pm »

incidentally, following shraeye's comment, i did a resolution graph to see what happened if raerae was a redirector and gave orders of "make cayvie target galzria". i was worried that this would lead to a contradiction, and thus a random resolution, but in fact it doesn't!

it actually doesn't change anything; things get resolved just like in the previous post, except we have to wait until didds is resolved before my action can be resolved. raerae winds up trying to make herself and ari both target galzria, but she can't, since ari and raerae have already been resolved at that point.

Not sure I understand. If that happened how does it not happen? Am I the only one who doesn't understand any of this?
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #751 on: February 19, 2020, 10:43:32 pm »

incidentally, following shraeye's comment, i did a resolution graph to see what happened if raerae was a redirector and gave orders of "make cayvie target galzria". i was worried that this would lead to a contradiction, and thus a random resolution, but in fact it doesn't!

it actually doesn't change anything; things get resolved just like in the previous post, except we have to wait until didds is resolved before my action can be resolved. raerae winds up trying to make herself and ari both target galzria, but she can't, since ari and raerae have already been resolved at that point.

Not sure I understand. If that happened how does it not happen? Am I the only one who doesn't understand any of this?

like, your orders get changed to "make ari and raerae target galzria"

but in this specific instance, ari's orders have to be resolved before yours. i can walk through this one step by step too, if that helped? it's pretty wild.

initial orders:

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: glooble > raerae
joseph: didds > ari
didds: pubby > raerae
raerae: cayvie > galz


Only joseph can be resolved here; as he's the only one not targeted by an unresolved redirector. so didds' target changes to ari.

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: glooble > raerae

joseph: didds > ari
didds: ari > raerae
raerae: cayvie > galz


Okay, now didds is our only choice; she's the only one not currently targeted by an unresolved redirector. so ari's target changes to raerae.

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: raerae > raerae

joseph: didds > ari
didds: ari > raerae
raerae: cayvie > galz

Now everyone appears on the right. but both raerae and cayvie cause a contradiction if we try to resolve them right now, since they're targeting each other with their first action. Whereas ari does not, since he's cayvie's second target.

So we resolve ari next, and make raerae target raerae.

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: raerae > raerae
joseph: didds > ari
didds: ari > raerae
raerae: raerae > galz

Now cayvie can be resolved, and raerae gets an additional target of ari, since she's already been redirected once.

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: raerae > raerae
joseph: didds > ari
didds: ari > raerae
raerae: raerae, ari > galz

Now we can resolve raerae's action. She adds galz as a new target for both herself and ari.

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: raerae, galz > raerae
joseph: didds > ari
didds: ari > raerae
raerae: raerae, ari, galz > galz

however, all the redirections have been executed at this point, so raerae's action has no actual effect on anything.

(idk how much this is helping anything)
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shraeye

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #752 on: February 19, 2020, 10:44:16 pm »

I'm including raerae in "claimed redirector". I know she didn't specifically, but I'll eat a hat if that's not the result she "had" on cayvie

Why is 'had' in quotes? Trying to hear your emphasis.
Because "has" sounds like I 100% believe your statement and also like I 100% believe that it is true even after redirects were applied...and I am not at/near 100% on either

So "had" = "claims to have" correct?
Yeah
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raerae

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #753 on: February 19, 2020, 10:52:07 pm »

You and I don't resolve together, we resolve randomly since we tied?
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #754 on: February 19, 2020, 10:55:43 pm »

You and I don't resolve together, we resolve randomly since we tied?

your target gets changed to yourself, so it stops being a tie. you stop targeting me when ari's orders (to make raerae target raerae) get resolved.
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18:28 MEASURE YOUR LIFE IN LOVE: you shouldve done the decent thing and resign rather than go on being that lucky all the time

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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #755 on: February 19, 2020, 11:00:16 pm »

You and I don't resolve together, we resolve randomly since we tied?

your target gets changed to yourself, so it stops being a tie. you stop targeting me when ari's orders (to make raerae target raerae) get resolved.

unless i'm wrong XD

man idk.

show of hands. who's scum?
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #756 on: February 19, 2020, 11:04:58 pm »

Wow..I am just rereading and catching up. Well done, Cayvie. That was actually super clear and maybe I understand for the first time how all of this works. 

What is your real life job? You're good at this explaining things, and if it is in fact, graph theory, I am duly impressed!
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #757 on: February 19, 2020, 11:10:19 pm »

Wow..I am just rereading and catching up. Well done, Cayvie. That was actually super clear and maybe I understand for the first time how all of this works. 

What is your real life job? You're good at this explaining things, and if it is in fact, graph theory, I am duly impressed!

omg thank you so much wcd. ngl, one of my biggest anxieties is trying to explain things and having nobody get what i'm talking about, so it means a lot that you understood.

i'm a social worker and a therapist. right now i work in a residential mental health treatment facility for women.
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18:28 MEASURE YOUR LIFE IN LOVE: you shouldve done the decent thing and resign rather than go on being that lucky all the time

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MiX

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #758 on: February 20, 2020, 05:13:16 am »

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: raerae > raerae
joseph: didds > ari
didds: ari > raerae
raerae: raerae > galz

Now cayvie can be resolved, and raerae gets an additional target of ari, since she's already been redirected once.

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: raerae > raerae
joseph: didds > ari
didds: ari > raerae
raerae: raerae, ari > galz

Shouldn't raerae be resolved first because her redirection doesn't mess with any other redirectors? Or because it messes herself it doesn't go first?

Also, if there's ONE hidden redirector (say, scum), I fear this all gets a different result. Now, a true master of the game would try to see what would happen if you remove ANY of these or if you add ANY possible redirection...but there's also the chance that scum simply shot Galzria with someone that wasn't targeted.
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LaLight

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #759 on: February 20, 2020, 05:30:19 am »

Guys, I was at a party till 8am and now I am pretty dead, I woke up but I guess I will get to sleep again. I am afraid I won't be here for deadline. If I am still not, vote: ari
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #760 on: February 20, 2020, 05:31:18 am »

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: raerae > raerae
joseph: didds > ari
didds: ari > raerae
raerae: raerae > galz

Now cayvie can be resolved, and raerae gets an additional target of ari, since she's already been redirected once.

cayvie: raerae > ari
ari: raerae > raerae
joseph: didds > ari
didds: ari > raerae
raerae: raerae, ari > galz

Shouldn't raerae be resolved first because her redirection doesn't mess with any other redirectors? Or because it messes herself it doesn't go first?

I don't believe so, because she's still being targeted by an unresolved redirector (cayvie). though the end result would be the same in this case.

Quote
Also, if there's ONE hidden redirector (say, scum), I fear this all gets a different result. Now, a true master of the game would try to see what would happen if you remove ANY of these or if you add ANY possible redirection...but there's also the chance that scum simply shot Galzria with someone that wasn't targeted.

yeah a true master of the game probably just realizes this is all too confusing and goes back to scumhunting using other techniques maybe
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LaLight

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #761 on: February 20, 2020, 05:32:43 am »

yeah a true master of the game probably just realizes this is all too confusing and goes back to scumhunting using other techniques maybe

Oh i thought I am just dumb, but I guess I am the truest master, noice
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #762 on: February 20, 2020, 05:36:40 am »

yeah a true master of the game probably just realizes this is all too confusing and goes back to scumhunting using other techniques maybe

Oh i thought I am just dumb, but I guess I am the truest master, noice

i certainly feel like at this point i've tricked myself into cluttering up the thread with stuff that won't wind up helping lynch scum because i'm incapable of ignoring logic puzzles

anyway yeah get some sleep, jesus

we've still got... 8 hours or so till deadline?
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18:28 MEASURE YOUR LIFE IN LOVE: you shouldve done the decent thing and resign rather than go on being that lucky all the time

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MiX

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #763 on: February 20, 2020, 05:37:09 am »

yeah a true master of the game probably just realizes this is all too confusing and goes back to scumhunting using other techniques maybe

Oh i thought I am just dumb, but I guess I am the truest master, noice

This is true, and what cayvie said is true.

If everyone's telling the truth, ari killed Galzria. Or raerae did, of course. Or someone else entirely.

PPE: Only 8 hours? No way, isn't deadline at the 21st?
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #764 on: February 20, 2020, 05:39:08 am »

PPE: Only 8 hours? No way, isn't deadline at the 21st?

whoops yep!
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18:28 MEASURE YOUR LIFE IN LOVE: you shouldve done the decent thing and resign rather than go on being that lucky all the time

she/her

Joseph2302

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #765 on: February 20, 2020, 05:39:52 am »

yeah a true master of the game probably just realizes this is all too confusing and goes back to scumhunting using other techniques maybe

Oh i thought I am just dumb, but I guess I am the truest master, noice

i certainly feel like at this point i've tricked myself into cluttering up the thread with stuff that won't wind up helping lynch scum because i'm incapable of ignoring logic puzzles

anyway yeah get some sleep, jesus

we've still got... 8 hours or so till deadline?
Wait, we only have 8 hours? For some reason, I thought we had 4 days left....

PPE: 1
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Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

WestCoastDidds

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #766 on: February 20, 2020, 07:28:12 am »

omg thank you so much wcd. ngl, one of my biggest anxieties is trying to explain things and having nobody get what i'm talking about, so it means a lot that you understood.

i'm a social worker and a therapist. right now i work in a residential mental health treatment facility for women.

Wow, that is important and hard work. Iím delighted to know you. F.ds is awesome.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #767 on: February 20, 2020, 07:35:59 am »

So, we have a day and a half?

Ari is at L-2, I think. That still seems like a pretty good best course of action...absent the result and redirection hullabaloo, his late ďoh, yeah, Iím a redirector tooĒ seemed rather half hearted.

LaLi....party until 8 am midweek? Thatís hardcore.

Iím still puzzled by how little Shraeye has to say and what, Pubby is in this game?

Iíve been watching a lot of Letterkenny. Pitter patter!
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #768 on: February 20, 2020, 08:05:31 am »

So, we have a day and a half?

Ari is at L-2, I think. That still seems like a pretty good best course of action...absent the result and redirection hullabaloo, his late ďoh, yeah, Iím a redirector tooĒ seemed rather half hearted.

LaLi....party until 8 am midweek? Thatís hardcore.

Iím still puzzled by how little Shraeye has to say and what, Pubby is in this game?

Iíve been watching a lot of Letterkenny. Pitter patter!
Agreed, ari's late, not very useful redirect claim doesn't read towny to me
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arishipshape

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #769 on: February 20, 2020, 08:45:02 am »

So, we have a day and a half?

Ari is at L-2, I think. That still seems like a pretty good best course of action...absent the result and redirection hullabaloo, his late ďoh, yeah, Iím a redirector tooĒ seemed rather half hearted.

LaLi....party until 8 am midweek? Thatís hardcore.

Iím still puzzled by how little Shraeye has to say and what, Pubby is in this game?

Iíve been watching a lot of Letterkenny. Pitter patter!
Agreed, ari's late, not very useful redirect claim doesn't read towny to me
Of course it wasnít useful. I said it wasnít useful. But the town seemed to encourage it with their votes and the claim of ďit definitely mattersĒ so I decided to put it out there.
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mail-mi

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Closed, PMs going out NOW!)
« Reply #770 on: February 20, 2020, 11:11:36 am »

Vote Count 2.4

raerae (2): pubby, Glooble
pubby (1): Joseph2302
arishipshape (4): raerae, cayvie, WestCoastDidds, LaLight {L-2}
Glooble (1): MiX

Not Voting (2): arishipshape, shraeye

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 2:00pm FT on February 21, 2020.
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #771 on: February 20, 2020, 11:16:59 am »

Voote: ari
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arishipshape

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #772 on: February 20, 2020, 11:22:56 am »

Well fudge. This is the first time I've been at L-1 in forum mafia.

Joseph, may I ask why you're voting me?
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shraeye

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #773 on: February 20, 2020, 11:31:57 am »

Probably so I can hammer. That's my best guess

Vote: ari
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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #774 on: February 20, 2020, 11:35:46 am »

Hey! I didn't even get a chance to defend myself!

Oh well. Sayonara. I townread Cayvie and scumread Raerae. Peace.
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