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Author Topic: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards  (Read 10956 times)

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Gubump

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2019, 03:53:46 pm »
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Thanks mate.

So I'm confused. Official cards never clarify the cost regarding potions or debt. I've always understood it that potion costs and debt costs don't factor in such cases. The wiki states such costs are orthogonal and have no official equivalency. So why does this keep popping up in comments on the board? Is this just a preference in the community? I'm late to this board so some things are still over my head in the community's ideas. Anyway, I'll phrase it as you said, "highest cost in coins ($)" to make it clear.



It's because of context. Official cards are either cards like Remodel which selects a specific cost based on some condition (for example, if you trash an Overlord, the cost Remodel selects as the limit is ), or cards with an if-clause like Chariot Race (if your card costs more than theirs), which is false if the two cards are incomparable. Your previous Feast, however, instructs you to select the card with the highest card, which is undefined if the costs are incomparable. I guess you could rule that it just fails to select a card in that case, but it's best to make things clear where you can.

tl;dr: Official cards don't usually clarify cost in because they still have defined behavior without that specification. Your previous version of Feast does not have defined behavior without that specification.

For Manoralism, how would this language work? "Once per turn, you may reveal any number of Estates or Duchies from your hand. If you do, cards cost $1 less per card revealed, but not less than $0." The beginning clause is used in some Events, and it would be really odd to execute this on another player's turn. I'm going to keep the end clause and wait till I see it changed in the Digital game.



That wording wouldn't quite work, because it needs to say that cards cost less per card revealed[, but not less than ] for the rest of the turn. Otherwise, it just says that card costs are reduced without saying for how long, so the cost reduction would apply for the rest of the game, which is clearly not what you intend.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 03:56:19 pm by Gubump »
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ShadowHawk

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2019, 10:35:29 pm »
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Thanks Gubump. Made the change to Manoralism and that finally clarifies the cost clarity requests.
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Gubump

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2019, 03:15:42 am »
+1




So you have 12 Kingdom cards instead of 10, but only 2 of those are available for purchase or gaining when Foreign Merchants is in play. This shifting of 2 piles from Supply and out of it allows for some interesting combos, but there is likely a problem with a card or five that I'm missing.

This is strictly better than a Woodcutter and thus has to cost at least . Based on my instincts, I would price it at even if Woodcutter never existed. I know that the comparison to Woodcutter isn't as big a deal since Woodcutter was removed, but having a card be strictly better than even a removed card at the same cost rubs some people the wrong way, and "some people" includes me. (Although since part of the point of this thread was to buff the removed cards, I wouldn't have brought this up if it didn't seem like a even without the Woodcutter comparison.)

Thanks Gubump. Made the change to Manoralism and that finally clarifies the cost clarity requests.

You should update the OP with all the updated cards. It says it has all the updated cards, but it doesn't, and the newest version of Manorialism isn't anywhere in this thread.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 03:17:17 am by Gubump »
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Gubump

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2019, 03:21:41 am »
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So different approach than the one I submitted. After making changes based on what majiponi said, it was basically a Band of Minions. Assembly by Gazbag was my favorite card, so I liked the idea of a Throne Room element.

Play up to two different Action cards from the Supply that have Student tokens on them, leaving them there.
-
When you gain this, put a Student token on a non-Command Action Supply pile costing up to $4.


So it does not permit a throne room double play, as you need to play two different cards or just play one. The token mechanism slows the card down, which I'm hoping justifies the cards's cost being at $4 instead of $5. Still very Band of Minions-ish, but the double play makes it more effective once you have two tokens out.

I would price this at at the very least. It only takes two Scholasticus gains to make it WAY better than BoM. Which means that just two or more people have to open with it and it suddenly becomes a broken card. I would probably price it at .
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 03:23:21 am by Gubump »
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segura

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2019, 06:49:13 am »
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So different approach than the one I submitted. After making changes based on what majiponi said, it was basically a Band of Minions. Assembly by Gazbag was my favorite card, so I liked the idea of a Throne Room element.

Play up to two different Action cards from the Supply that have Student tokens on them, leaving them there.
-
When you gain this, put a Student token on a non-Command Action Supply pile costing up to $4.


So it does not permit a throne room double play, as you need to play two different cards or just play one. The token mechanism slows the card down, which I'm hoping justifies the cards's cost being at $4 instead of $5. Still very Band of Minions-ish, but the double play makes it more effective once you have two tokens out.

I would price this at at the very least. It only takes two Scholasticus gains to make it WAY better than BoM. Which means that just two or more people have to open with it and it suddenly becomes a broken card. I would probably price it at .
I'd go further and claim that this is broken at any price.
After two gains this is a e.g. double Lab in a Kingdom with Village and Smithy (and we know from the secret history that DXV was never able to make a double Lab work).
Advisor and Silk Merchant net draws 3 cards and yields an extra Buy. Mono-card-engine at a piece price of $4 is crazy.
The worst case is something like Pearl Diver and Moat but even then it is still a Lab.
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Gubump

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2019, 12:44:07 pm »
+1



So different approach than the one I submitted. After making changes based on what majiponi said, it was basically a Band of Minions. Assembly by Gazbag was my favorite card, so I liked the idea of a Throne Room element.

Play up to two different Action cards from the Supply that have Student tokens on them, leaving them there.
-
When you gain this, put a Student token on a non-Command Action Supply pile costing up to $4.


So it does not permit a throne room double play, as you need to play two different cards or just play one. The token mechanism slows the card down, which I'm hoping justifies the cards's cost being at $4 instead of $5. Still very Band of Minions-ish, but the double play makes it more effective once you have two tokens out.

I would price this at at the very least. It only takes two Scholasticus gains to make it WAY better than BoM. Which means that just two or more people have to open with it and it suddenly becomes a broken card. I would probably price it at .
I'd go further and claim that this is broken at any price.
After two gains this is a e.g. double Lab in a Kingdom with Village and Smithy (and we know from the secret history that DXV was never able to make a double Lab work).
Advisor and Silk Merchant net draws 3 cards and yields an extra Buy. Mono-card-engine at a piece price of $4 is crazy.
The worst case is something like Pearl Diver and Moat but even then it is still a Lab.

It only takes up one card slot, so Pearl Diver + Moat is net +3 Cards and +1 Action, so that's actually slightly better than double Lab, and Village + Smithy is net +4 Cards and +2 Actions, or a triple Lab plus a Village.

Now that you've pointed this out, I completely agree that Scholasticus doesn't work at any price.
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ShadowHawk

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2019, 12:22:53 am »
0



So different approach than the one I submitted. After making changes based on what majiponi said, it was basically a Band of Minions. Assembly by Gazbag was my favorite card, so I liked the idea of a Throne Room element.

Play up to two different Action cards from the Supply that have Student tokens on them, leaving them there.
-
When you gain this, put a Student token on a non-Command Action Supply pile costing up to $4.


So it does not permit a throne room double play, as you need to play two different cards or just play one. The token mechanism slows the card down, which I'm hoping justifies the cards's cost being at $4 instead of $5. Still very Band of Minions-ish, but the double play makes it more effective once you have two tokens out.

I would price this at at the very least. It only takes two Scholasticus gains to make it WAY better than BoM. Which means that just two or more people have to open with it and it suddenly becomes a broken card. I would probably price it at .
I'd go further and claim that this is broken at any price.
After two gains this is a e.g. double Lab in a Kingdom with Village and Smithy (and we know from the secret history that DXV was never able to make a double Lab work).
Advisor and Silk Merchant net draws 3 cards and yields an extra Buy. Mono-card-engine at a piece price of $4 is crazy.
The worst case is something like Pearl Diver and Moat but even then it is still a Lab.

It only takes up one card slot, so Pearl Diver + Moat is net +3 Cards and +1 Action, so that's actually slightly better than double Lab, and Village + Smithy is net +4 Cards and +2 Actions, or a triple Lab plus a Village.

Now that you've pointed this out, I completely agree that Scholasticus doesn't work at any price.

Good catch segura, it's broken.
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ShadowHawk

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2019, 12:26:25 am »
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You should update the OP with all the updated cards. It says it has all the updated cards, but it doesn't, and the newest version of Manorialism isn't anywhere in this thread.

Done.
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segura

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2019, 03:54:59 am »
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So you have 12 Kingdom cards instead of 10, but only 2 of those are available for purchase or gaining when Foreign Merchants is in play. This shifting of 2 piles from Supply and out of it allows for some interesting combos, but there is likely a problem with a card or five that I'm missing.

This is strictly better than a Woodcutter and thus has to cost at least . Based on my instincts, I would price it at even if Woodcutter never existed. I know that the comparison to Woodcutter isn't as big a deal since Woodcutter was removed, but having a card be strictly better than even a removed card at the same cost rubs some people the wrong way, and "some people" includes me. (Although since part of the point of this thread was to buff the removed cards, I wouldn't have brought this up if it didn't seem like a even without the Woodcutter comparison.)
I agree and like to point out that Woodcutter is basically a card category or a benchmark and thus still exists as a "shadow".
Even if Woodcutter never existed, you could deduce from Nomad Camp and Messenger that Woodcutter has to cost $3 and that Woodcutter with an extra has to cost more.
This is different to e.g. Adventurer which is a singular card.
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ShadowHawk

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2019, 10:57:31 pm »
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Moved Foreign Merchant to $4.



Here is a new take on Scholasticus



So now it is a Command that has no upper limit on the cost of the card it can access...save cards denominated in Debt...but it takes a while to get there. Should the price be dropped down to $3 or does $4 work as a decision point?
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ShadowHawk

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2019, 11:20:13 pm »
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Updated previous submissions to the weekly design contest



A Duration with a weak-ish attack that facilitates 3 pile wins, a "counter" attack to the Curse supply, and deck ruining by depleting Supply piles.



Another Duration that provides a counter bonus to your opponents gaining Victory cards. Not sure if the card should be adjusted to a $6 price point or if the Duration ability should be nerfed to +1 Cards.

Both of these cards could also be turned into Reactions.
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ShadowHawk

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2019, 11:25:51 pm »
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An aside: how do I add the function present in other posts where clicking on the image will expand it? Right now I'm adjusting the size on imgur rather than adjusting it in the post.
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GendoIkari

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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2019, 11:48:10 pm »
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An aside: how do I add the function present in other posts where clicking on the image will expand it? Right now I'm adjusting the size on imgur rather than adjusting it in the post.


Code: [Select]
[img width=250]https://i.imgur.com/sJP0E6b.png?1[/img]
Just add "width=250" to the img code (or whatever size you want; 200-250 is pretty good).
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Re: ShadowHawk's Attempts at Homebrew Dominion cards
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2019, 05:31:44 pm »
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I love the knowledge and feedback of the locals of this board. I have two regular game groups that I play Dominion with and finding the random card generator(s) here has been fun. After mentioning it at my last game, a friend of mine with the 1st editions asked if I could try to come up with versions of the cut cards that might be more interesting to play. This is my attempt. My goals were to maintain theme and keep the card close to what I think Donald X was going for based on his comments on the card. I've used knew mechanics from other expansions to try to help without being overly complicated. Feedback is much appreciated before I start printing test copies.

Edit: Now includes all the cards posted. Moved the commentary to the post below.

Most updated card versions in this post.

Alternate Base


Alternate Intrigue


Took a look at the alternate versions of the outtakes. I like the ideas, although some seem rather wordy and also rather distinct from their original counterpart. Anyway:

Chancelor: I think you need to find a different upgrade, cause the whole "make sure you draw one particular card" thing is already done by Scavanger. I really fail to see how these cards are different barring edge cases.
Woodcutter: Kinda novel way to make Woodcutter do a little bit more. I like it. I would make the +1 Card optional though (say something like: you may reveal a Victory card for +1 Card)
Feast: Very wordy, and I fail to see why the first paragraph couldn't be just left out. Hard to see whether it's balanced, and whether the whole "let other people trash for cheaper" is necessary to balance this out. (I mean, Remodel's mos classical utility, Gold->Province is scrapped already)
Spy: Sounds OP. It removes the 2 best cards from a 6 card hand. Look at Pillage, which costs $5, only discards one card, and trashes itself, and you see that this is kinda off.
Thief: Sounds quite convoluted. It is an improvement over original thief, but it still has the fundamental issue of trashing other player's Coppers.
Adventurer: The last part is luck based and also unnecessary when this card is meant to be a Smithy+. For the rest, sounds fine.

Secret Chamber: Looks cool, although I'm not a huge fan of $4 costs being upgrades of $3 costs. I mean, the other $3 costs getting $4 costing upgrades are Village, which is a base card teaching about Dominion fundamentals, and Woodcutter/Chancelor, which are weak.
Great Hall: Sounds very weak, honestly.
Coppersmith: Terminal +1 Card. Yuk. Making it last two turns should be a decent improvement, so try it first without that bonus.
Scout: I'm afraid it is still weak. In some aspects, it is probably even worse than regular Scouts, as it lacks the synergies with Crossroads and dual-type cards. And it still packs the unfortunate property of being a Ruined Village mid-game.
Saboteur: Dislike the Ruins part. It looks fine otherwise, though I doubt that this is a recipe for fun.
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