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Author Topic: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)  (Read 114832 times)

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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #600 on: October 23, 2019, 12:52:24 pm »

Vote: Jimmm

What are your thoughts on the LL wagon?

I pretty much am leaning right now AGAINST voting for anyone that has been participating in today's discussions. I am getting that "skum is sitting back" vibe.

Which is also a larger part of why I am ok with Jimm.

Scum ended D1 in a pretty strong position, why do you think they wouldn't want to control the pace and conversation of D2?

Same point different conclusions - I do think they are controlling the pace... as in keeping it slow moving and letting us talk in circles.

I think they would have come out strong and pushed a target. That makes you or joth tops on my list but that feels very biased since I was the target.
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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #601 on: October 23, 2019, 12:53:18 pm »

I know this makes LL a lower priority target, since he wouldn't be full scum, but pubby must have had some anti-town function, or there wouldn't be a point to his faction, right?

I'm having a real difficult time following this love of thinking. Can you dumb it way down? Sorry to ask but I just don't get it.
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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #602 on: October 23, 2019, 12:53:35 pm »

I know this makes LL a lower priority target, since he wouldn't be full scum, but pubby must have had some anti-town function, or there wouldn't be a point to his faction, right?

I'm having a real difficult time following this love of thinking. Can you dumb it way down? Sorry to ask but I just don't get it.

*Line, not love
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #603 on: October 23, 2019, 01:09:50 pm »

I am 100% sure that there are two and only two nemeses, Sorin and Nahiri.

Check out this card from the set that this is based on: https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=single%20combat

Basically, Sorin and Nahiri's feud was a thing in the block. Other third parties could exist -- I can think of other characters who weren't really on either side in the war -- but as far as pubby's exact role, it's gotta be just the two of them.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #604 on: October 23, 2019, 01:45:08 pm »

I see how it seems unlikely that there are 3 third party players, but am I the only one who finds that vote pattern really striking? I think if they have the ability to become town then it could make sense balance-wise. I don't think we should discount evidence in front of us because of speculation about what the mod would or wouldn't do.

I see pubby/gkrieg and those line up.  I see absolutely no correlations if you throw LaLight in the mix.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #605 on: October 23, 2019, 01:48:25 pm »

Yeah I'd still have hammered MiX if he had said "vengeful town" right before my vote was cast.  I was pretty darn sure of his scumminess.
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LaLight

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #606 on: October 23, 2019, 03:11:07 pm »

I like this. vote: shraeye

Why?

I don't feel like he's town. I think Eddie is scum, but for the life of me can't put this feeling into words and no one really cares about voting him. I would vote for you and shraeye as well

Why do you feel he's scum? And if you've got something on Eddie let's hear it. People do tend to not be super interested in RVS D2 so putting something into words might be beneficial if you actually want to get that lunch through.

Actually sorry for being absent, I am swamped with work, I am an accountant now, who knew it would be this time consuming.

I don't have much to talk about Eddie, he feels very inactive and under the radar, Eddie that I remember is active (though fluffy a lot). This time it feels like he stays fluffy, but not so active. I also really feel scum vibes from that jump on my wagon, I can't really explain this. In my head this action is 100% scum would do.

I also continue to think that shraeye is scum because even if people tell me it's his meta to be careless, he seems trying to play his meta, not just playing it.

The hammer, these posts:

I'll pre-sheep DatSwan

Vote: EFHW

But that last question jimmm asked is new and exciting.

I'll make a deal. If you summarize what you think about raerae overall, I'll answer that neato question.

It's like "see, people, I am town!shraeye, I play like town!shraeye, you see? See?"

I don't feel it genuine.
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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #607 on: October 23, 2019, 04:41:44 pm »

It seems this needs a little push.

Vote: Jimmmmm
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shraeye

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #608 on: October 23, 2019, 10:10:04 pm »

Double push

Vote: jimmmmm
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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #609 on: October 23, 2019, 10:12:12 pm »

Any actual case behind that, guys?
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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #610 on: October 23, 2019, 10:28:54 pm »

Any actual case behind that, guys?
Yes. Do you have a reason to keep Jimmmmm alive?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #611 on: October 23, 2019, 10:29:18 pm »

He's bad.

Do you have a case on someone?
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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #612 on: October 23, 2019, 10:31:34 pm »

Any actual case behind that, guys?
Yes. Do you have a reason to keep Jimmmmm alive?

I looked back and didn't see anything. DatSwan's cool with it so that makes me less excited to blindly follow.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #613 on: October 23, 2019, 11:19:13 pm »

What's the problem with DatSwan?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #614 on: October 24, 2019, 12:02:04 am »

I know this makes LL a lower priority target, since he wouldn't be full scum, but pubby must have had some anti-town function, or there wouldn't be a point to his faction, right?

I'm having a real difficult time following this love of thinking. Can you dumb it way down? Sorry to ask but I just don't get it.
They vote in the order ll, gk, pubby three times thru followed by another ll.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #615 on: October 24, 2019, 12:04:27 am »

Any actual case behind that, guys?
Yes. Do you have a reason to keep Jimmmmm alive?
I found his review of raerae pretty towny.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #616 on: October 24, 2019, 02:46:47 am »

Reread shraeye. I continue to find MiX scummy even after his flip, so hammering him I think is null.

However I'm not convinced by shraeye's read on raerae. This seems to be his main case on her:

Raerae is scum for not engaging until I fought back at her.  Raerae is always good at the back and forth, but scum raerae is not good at engaging with nobody responding to her. 

Townrae is great at digging up stuff and needling away at threads.

Note how her score keeps going down bit by bit as she continued to not engage

The first sentence makes little sense to me. How can you have a "back and forth" if nobody's responding? Seems like a handwavy case that people might just accept because of course shraeye knows how raerae plays.

shraeye is correct that his raerae scores have strictly decreased up until this point. I'm getting a premeditated vibe from this, as if the whole point of the point system was to reduce raerae's score over time and then make this meta argument. Let's follow these scores and see how much sense they make.



Vote: shraeye

I'm not wrong. Join me, friends.

raerae
+2

raerae gets an initial score of +2 for an RVS/meme vote. Seems like an easy 2 points, but sure.



@faust, thoughts and feelings on MiX claiming the sun thing?

@shraeye, do you think everybody should flavor name claim or just you cuz you're a special flower?

@faust, thoughts and feelings on MiX claiming the sun thing?
I don't think revealing how I feel about this is beneficial at this point.

Ahhhhh, so cryptic, I loave it.  Do you believe it's harmful?  Or are you just being sly?
In either of those cases, why would I answer this question?

Because you were complaining nobody was around last night and we're both here now so I thought I'd try to make some conversation.  I will absolutely avoid asking you questions you don't want to answer in the future.
I don't mean to be difficult. Just keep in mind that if I expressed that I am unwilling to discuss a certain subject, then prodding me further in that direction is unlikely to yield results.

We can absolutely converse though. For instance, is your vote still RVS? Have you developed any reads so far?

Mostly RVS with a healthy dose of 'shraeye is always scum' mindset mixed in. No reads so far. I'm interested in what people think about shraeye's flavor name claim (honestly I just like saying that) but the lack of reaction to it is interesting too.

How about you? I feel like faust doesn't RVS so why am I scum? Where's everybody else rank on the bad guy list?

How about you? I feel like faust doesn't RVS so why am I scum?
I know this one: It's because you got a PM saying that!

Also opening with the dead "shraeye is always scum" meme is boring, predictable and exactly what scum!raerae would do. And you addressed a question to me; the towny reason to ask people random questions is to get them to engage, and really I am the last person you need to draw into the game, so I can only suspect there's an ulterior motive behind that.

Where's everybody else rank on the bad guy list?
Below you. I don't think my other reads are at the level where sharing them is useful right now.

It's also exactly what town!raerae would do as evidenced by every other game I've played except the one where he was mod-confirmed town to me. So I'm just going to call that a crappy argument.  As far as addressing you, I did it because I thought you'd have something to say and we're close enough to the same time zone for once so why not take advantage of that? But let's play for a minute, what is my sneaky evil motive for asking you questions? Am I just supposed to ignore you some you don't need to be prompted to join the game? That's also silly.

raerae
+0

So two questions and this exchange with faust has removed raerae's points. If anyone's not engaging here it's faust for not answering raerae's questions (which is probably reasonable). But there is back and forth, resulting in raerae labelling faust's argument as "crappy". Seems like she's engaging just fine.




Why would scum quickhammer themselves?

Is MiX still the easy D1 lunch?

raerae
-2

I fail to see what raerae is not engaging with that is costing her points. She was voted for by LL for voting shraeye every game, but I'm not sure that's really worth responding to.



Hey, raerae, do you have anything to offer besides RVS votes?

Naw, still cool with it considering he hasn't said anything other than arbitrary numbers and a half-promise about a flavor name claim. I could move to MiX probably but I'm fine where I am for now.

I suppose this is the post that the "not engaging" is responding to? I don't know, not offering a strong case is different than refusing to engage.

"want to say my flavor name"
...
Majority of scum clearly in the nonresponse group (which includes MiX).  Not just because that side has more people.

Definitely not clear. Care to expand on why that's so obvious?  Seems like you got some insider info, friend.

The "insider info" comment (ie "you must be scum to know this") is neither here nor there, but otherwise this seems to be a sensible question. Scum have fake flavour names, so as far as I know no one should have any preferences regarding flavour name claims (apart from it being a waste of time and space).

All fire, no substance.  This isn't townrae.

raerae
-9

So these two posts earned raerae an extra -7. There's not a heck of a lot of fire, and having little substance is fairly standard for Day 1.



All fire, no substance.  This isn't townrae.

So just not answering questions then? Super cool.

I'm staying here and nominate shraeye as the alternate wagon.
The first question (re flavor names) was legitimate, but not one I'm answering.

The second one (#218, "explain what's so clear, looks like you have insider info") was provacative and meaningless.

Disagree, you looked at two groups of people and said there was very clearly more scum in one than another. That isn't clear to me. Why would you think scum wouldn't engage? Help me understand your thought process otherwise it just looks like you're throwing shade for fun with nothing behind it. Was I sassier than necessary? Yes. Does that invalidate my question? No.

raerae asking a "provocative and meaningless" question is not particularly unusual. I'm fairly sure it's not worth the conclusion "This isn't townrae".



So at this point this whole thing from shraeye seems like a planned attempt to build a case against raerae. I don't agree with his reasons for reducing her points over time or for the big jump down to -9. I think he presented a confusing case that is easy for people to just accept because he knows her so well.

But then his long built-up scumread on raerae just disappears.

I start with shraeye, still haven't got answer to

All fire, no substance.  This isn't townrae.

What happened to this read? It sounds pretty sure

and also don't see him at all participating in D2 and after D1 weird hammer.
Are you curious about where my raerae read is at? Or are you making a point that I don't understand?

raerae
+1

shreaye is clearly aware that his "raerae read" is significant, but seems hesitant to comment on it, and instead of answering a clear question about it (asked twice), he simply gives his list, in which raerae suddenly has +1.

So, shraeye, what happened? Who exactly was raerae not engaging with, and what changed her from your biggest scum read to a slight Town read? Or was the whole thing faked from the start?

(sorry for the wall of text)



Vote: shraeye
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Galzria

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #617 on: October 24, 2019, 03:47:58 am »

I stand by my Swan vote & encourage those who wish to lynch scum to vote there.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

shraeye

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #618 on: October 24, 2019, 07:30:07 am »

Sorry Jimmm, but I'm not going to give you the response that your work deserves.

I don't understand how your initial anaylsis misunderstands " not engaging".  You're pulling quotes by raerae and guessing which one I'm referring to by "not engaging"??? I was referring to the ones that aren't there.  Your take on that just reads scummy scummy.

True that my scumread on raerae has decreased, but Im not explaining why
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Jimmmmm

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #619 on: October 24, 2019, 08:00:35 am »

I don't understand how your initial anaylsis misunderstands " not engaging".  You're pulling quotes by raerae and guessing which one I'm referring to by "not engaging"??? I was referring to the ones that aren't there.

Which ones?
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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #620 on: October 24, 2019, 08:33:17 am »

Jimmmmm: Why do you think scum!shraeye would hatch a scheme to scumread raerae at the start of the game? What does scum gain from that?
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Glooble

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #621 on: October 24, 2019, 08:51:49 am »


"I guess I just don't understand why you couldn't test this in a lab," said the Centaur. It was a strange little squad that had assembled- Centaurs and wolfrider from the conclave surrounding a small group of goggle-wearing goblins carrying various instruments, and one tall, silver-haired human in the middle holding a very large... well, something.

"You want to try trapping some of those interplanar monsters in such a way that they can be used as guinea pigs, be my guest," said Ral Zarek. "This way it better. Here is good. We're going to get set-up, while you lure them here."

"And what if your weapon doesn't work?" asked the centaur.

"Oh, it'll work," said Ral. "But if it doesn't, you all are the ones who can run fast. Actually, you'll probably want to do that either way. The blast radius on this puppy is..."

Ral just whistled.


Vote Count 2.4

DatSwan (1): Galzria
Awaclus (1): gkrieg
LaLight (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Jimmmmmmm (4): UncleEurope, DatSwan, faust, shraeye
shraeye (3): jotheonah, LaLight, Jimmmmmmmm
Not voting (1): raerae

With 12 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day will end at 6:30 pm on Thursday, October 24th. That's in less than 12 hours.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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EFHW

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #622 on: October 24, 2019, 09:07:13 am »

I stand by my Swan vote & encourage those who wish to lynch scum to vote there.

Do you have particular insight based on your irl knowledge of him?
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #623 on: October 24, 2019, 09:29:44 am »

Jimmmm voters, if Jimmmm is town, what does that get us? LaLight voters, same question.

I think shraeye is a better wagon because he has a much richer set of interactions. We learn so much from his lynch either way. I also happen to think he's more likely to flip scum, but that's neither here nor there.

Galzria, all due respect, either make a real case on DatSwan or move your vote somewhere useful. Same goes for gkreig re: Awaclus. We're 9 hours from deadline, time to pick a real wagon.

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Jimmmmm

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #624 on: October 24, 2019, 09:49:28 am »

Jimmmmm: Why do you think scum!shraeye would hatch a scheme to scumread raerae at the start of the game? What does scum gain from that?

Why does scum anyone plan to scumread anyone? To appear to be scumhunting, to try to control the lynch, etc. I think he's been a bit less active than usual; it's possible he felt he could use his point system to come up with a reasonable case that would take less effort than normal. Obviously I can only speculate as to the why. The point is the regular reductions on raerae's points seem convenient and unwarranted.

And his refusal to give any reason for his change of heart doesn't help things at all.
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