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[jotheonah]

Unvote for now. I'm having second thoughts. Gonna try to get a reread in before deadline and see if anything jumps out.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Joth

[jotheonah]

Ok so I did a quick reread.

The case on MiX is ... that he said one really weird thing about quickhammers. Like really weird. And I did lay out a scum narrative for why he would have said it -- that he wanted to distance himself from the pubby wagon but leave himself room to hammer if need be. It felt like how clever scum might respond to a rapidly building town wagon: stoke it while staying off of it.

So, ok, that was a decent case and I feel fine about voting based on it. But then like a lot of people jumped onto the wagon and very few of them expressed any reasons beyond that one post. Since then, MiX has been ... null? Like not supertownie but also not super scummy.

And then there's the response to the MiX wagon. No one has seemed like they're overtly trying to stop it, but people like faust have been trying to make another wagon take off for some vague reason? Actually if MiX is scum, faust looks like a likely partner.

So yeah, on reread, this feels like a better-than-average day 1 case. I'm just hesitant because I've been absolutely convinced of Mix's scumminess before and been super wrong. But in those cases, I haven't had this much support. Which is both encouraging and discouraging. Sigh.

The other thing is, I didn't see a great alternative in my reread. I'm pretty wary of Galzria, because he hasn't posted much and the posts he's made have been pretty easy, plus there was that one that seemed to be encouraging dangerous claiming. But MiX's flip will give more info about Galz than vice versa.

Anyway, I'm back on vote: MiX which I guess is still L-2

Vote: Joth

If there's anything to this, let me know and I'll try to address. Otherwise, cool story bro.

[faust]

And then there's the response to the MiX wagon. No one has seemed like they're overtly trying to stop it, but people like faust have been trying to make another wagon take off for some vague reason? Actually if MiX is scum, faust looks like a likely partner.

The vague reason is interactions. Having 2 wagons forces people to decide. Having two wagons is always better for information than having one wagon, I thought that was obvious.

But aside from that, MiX has been more townie lately, so now I definitely don't want to lynch him.

[faust]

The other thing is, I didn't see a great alternative in my reread.

Really? Like 50% of the players in this game are decent lynch targets at this point.

[faust]

It felt like how clever scum might respond to a rapidly building town wagon: stoke it while staying off of it.

One thing is very certain: If MiX is scum then he hasn't been clever.

[shraeye]

It's not the weird thing about quickhammers, it's his assumptions about pubby.  They are back-and-forth with no outside input in between completely inconsistent stances

[faust]

And then there's the response to the MiX wagon. No one has seemed like they're overtly trying to stop it

Also... I mean didn't you say the opposite earlier?

Does anyone have strong feelings against a MiX lynch? Sorry if it's been said and I missed it.

No one has expressed strong feelings, but people sure are eager to kill the wagon now that you've given them the slightest opening...

[faust]

It's not the weird thing about quickhammers, it's his assumptions about pubby.  They are back-and-forth with no outside input in between completely inconsistent stances

Consistency is not a town tell.

[jotheonah]

It's not the weird thing about quickhammers, it's his assumptions about pubby.  They are back-and-forth with no outside input in between completely inconsistent stances

That's true, and I'm not sure he's really addressed that case.

[jotheonah]

It's not the weird thing about quickhammers, it's his assumptions about pubby.  They are back-and-forth with no outside input in between completely inconsistent stances

Consistency is not a town tell.

But inconsistency can be a scum tell. If your reads are fake, it's easier to forget what they're supposed to be.

[jotheonah]

And then there's the response to the MiX wagon. No one has seemed like they're overtly trying to stop it

Also... I mean didn't you say the opposite earlier?

Does anyone have strong feelings against a MiX lynch? Sorry if it's been said and I missed it.

No one has expressed strong feelings, but people sure are eager to kill the wagon now that you've given them the slightest opening...

That's what I meant by overtly. No one's been like "Let's not lynch MiX" (except you, just now).

[faust]

It's not the weird thing about quickhammers, it's his assumptions about pubby.  They are back-and-forth with no outside input in between completely inconsistent stances

Consistency is not a town tell.

But inconsistency can be a scum tell. If your reads are fake, it's easier to forget what they're supposed to be.

I was under the impression that these things were going on in relatively quick succession. I don't buy into a narrative that poses that MiX forgot how he was supposed to feel about pubby when that was like the only topic of discussion at that point.

[MiX]

Actually if MiX is scum, faust looks like a likely partner.

That's just how we interact, at this point it's NAI.

The rest of this case is paranoia. Actually the rest is scummy paranoia. I might agree with Uncle here.

It felt like how clever scum might respond to a rapidly building town wagon: stoke it while staying off of it.

One thing is very certain: If MiX is scum then he hasn't been clever.

...How would you know? This feels like scum looking clever to themselves by saying something that is true (since I'm not scum) but really isn't from town's perspective (if you have a town read on me how am I not being clever as scum?) So yeah scummypoints here.

It's not the weird thing about quickhammers, it's his assumptions about pubby.  They are back-and-forth with no outside input in between completely inconsistent stances

Consistency is not a town tell.

But inconsistency can be a scum tell. If your reads are fake, it's easier to forget what they're supposed to be.

It's hilariously easy to remember what your opinions were just a few minutes ago, it's much harder to remember what you were thinking when you had all your notes a day ago. So if anything inconsistency from one post to another is towny.

[faust]

It felt like how clever scum might respond to a rapidly building town wagon: stoke it while staying off of it.

One thing is very certain: If MiX is scum then he hasn't been clever.

...How would you know? This feels like scum looking clever to themselves by saying something that is true (since I'm not scum) but really isn't from town's perspective (if you have a town read on me how am I not being clever as scum?) So yeah scummypoints here.

Well, the majority of people in this game seem to want to lynch you. And it's not like the thing that made them want to lynch you gave me a townread on you, no that came later. So the whole pubby situation has been a complete disaster for scum!you, with no real upside.

[MiX]

It felt like how clever scum might respond to a rapidly building town wagon: stoke it while staying off of it.

One thing is very certain: If MiX is scum then he hasn't been clever.

...How would you know? This feels like scum looking clever to themselves by saying something that is true (since I'm not scum) but really isn't from town's perspective (if you have a town read on me how am I not being clever as scum?) So yeah scummypoints here.

Well, the majority of people in this game seem to want to lynch you. And it's not like the thing that made them want to lynch you gave me a townread on you, no that came later. So the whole pubby situation has been a complete disaster for scum!you, with no real upside.

It made pubby a real wagon, which then got shutdown with his claim, I wouldn't know that. Wouldn't call it...that bad. Sure it backfired but...I'm always close to being lynched. Remember that time we ended the day with me at L-1? That was fun.

Nullypoints then. Eh.

Hey Swan can you say more scummy things so we can lynch you? Please?

[EFHW]

I think faust is town, and MiX, too. Wondering about Didds. She has a scummy place on the MiX wagon. But I'm going with vote: Jimmmmm. I feel like he is usually more careful with his votes.

[faust]

And then there's the response to the MiX wagon. No one has seemed like they're overtly trying to stop it

Also... I mean didn't you say the opposite earlier?

Does anyone have strong feelings against a MiX lynch? Sorry if it's been said and I missed it.

No one has expressed strong feelings, but people sure are eager to kill the wagon now that you've given them the slightest opening...

That's what I meant by overtly. No one's been like "Let's not lynch MiX" (except you, just now).

So who did you have in mind when you talked about people who are eager to kill the wagon? What nonovert things did they do that you picked up?

[faust]

I think faust is town, and MiX, too. Wondering about Didds. She has a scummy place on the MiX wagon. But I'm going with vote: Jimmmmm. I feel like he is usually more careful with his votes.

Vote: Jimmmmm

[raerae]

Vote: MiX

I think that's L-2?

[faust]

Vote: MiX

I think that's L-2?

If joth counted correctly then it's L-1.

Boo.

[faust]

What compelled you to do this now?

[MiX]

Whoever hammers me is scum.

Let the game begin!

[raerae]

What compelled you to do this now?

He's answered lots of other questions and addressed plenty of other things but hasn't addressed my concerns about how unlynchable comment. And the fact that he's resigned to being the lunch shows that was a lie anyway.

[Awaclus]

me is scum.

This part here is true.