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Author Topic: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck  (Read 4502 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« on: March 15, 2012, 06:10:33 am »
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I like pearl diver, and think that other cards could use the bottom of the deck as a place for safekeeping/something that will come back eventually/a pocket for deck density.

Here are a few of my ideas:

Mermaid:
Action
Cost: 3
+1 action
Draw the top and bottom card of your deck
Return one card from your hand to the bottom of your deck

Trio:
Action
Cost: 3
+1 action
You may return cards to the bottom of your deck. For every card you return to the bottom of your deck, +1 card
Then, for every card you return to the top of your deck, +1 coin

Pearl:
Treasure
Cost: 5
If this is the first treasure you play this turn, worth 3, otherwise worth 2.
During the clean up phase, you must return either one or two pearls to the bottom of your deck instead of discarding.

Rear Admiral:
Action/Attack
Cost: 4
+1 Card, +1 Coin
Each other player returns cards to the bottom of their deck until they have 3 cards in hand

Reserves:
Action
Cost: 5
+1 action
If you have not played any other actions this turn:
Draw up to 10 cards in hand
Return 5 cards to the bottom of your deck


Scrapper:
Action
Cost: 2
+1 Card
+1 Buy
Return all treasures played this turn to the bottom of your deck

Dweller
Action/Attack
Cost: 3
Each player (including you) reveals the bottom card of their deck. He either puts it on top of his deck or discards it; your choice.
Then, +1 Card, +1 Coin

Oppressor
Action/Attack
Cost: 3
+$2
Each other player may return a card to the bottom of their deck and draw a card. Then, if the bottom card of their deck is not a curse, they gain a curse and place it on the bottom of the deck.

Flea Market
Action
Cost: 4
The player to your left reveals the bottom card of his deck. If it's not a province or colony, you may gain a copy of that card or trash up to 2 copies of that card from your hand. If you do neither, +1 action.

The cards are mostly just variants of other cards (Laboratory, Cellar+Secret Chamber, Stash, Militia/Ghost Ship, Tactician, Herbalist) but the bottom of the deck adds some interesting twists. For example, the choice of what to "discard" when hit by rear admiral isn't very obvious since those 2 victory cards you "discard" are likely to return together, and you can't really expect when.

Any comments?

Any other ideas for cards that use the bottom of the deck as a mechanic?

EDIT: Added 3 ideas from later posts.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 12:44:02 pm by NoMoreFun »
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DStu

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2012, 07:10:05 am »
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Mermaid:
Action
Cost: 3
+1 action
Draw the top and bottom card of your deck
Return one card from your hand to the bottom of your deck
is of course much much stronger than PD, but as it doesn't stack, $3 is probably ok

Quote
Pearl:
Treasure
Cost: 5
Worth 2 Coin
During the clean up phase, you may return one pearl to the bottom of your deck instead of discarding it.
Without support, this is next-to-not-better than Silver. At the bottom, it will most likely miss the reshuffle and therefore not get played more often than if it would have gotten discarded. Exceptions: It does not miss the shuffle (probability 1/5 without draw, less with), or it would have missed the next reshuffle if discarded...
$4 would be fair, but Donald said he doesn't like Silvers for $4...
Probably you it would be possible to drop the condition of only returning one to the bottom, than it could be played as a reverse Stack. Ok, def's right, that's overpowered.

Quote
Rear Admiral:
Action/Attack
Cost: 4
+1 Card, +1 Coin
Each other player returns cards to the bottom of their deck until they have 3 cards in hand
Ghost Ship, Ghost Ship. So how do they compare? For first, I'll give it +2cards, then it's easier. If I return bad things, the attack seems weaker. I don't see the cards that early, they might miss the reshuffle, that's all great for me. So it's more like Militia. If I decide to return good cards instead (under constant attacks maybe), I can prepare a real good turn at the end (on the danger of them missing the shuffle). Not often, but perhaps sometimes worthwile (Put 2KC and 3 Bridges there...)
Hard to tell, but seems weaker than GS, and not so much stronger than Militia (if at all), $4 might be ok.

Quote
Reserves:
Action
Cost: 5
+1 action
Draw up to 10 cards in hand
Return 5 cards to the bottom of your deck
wuwuwu.  Don't know. That's of course the killer combo-activator. For this part like an instant-Tactician. But with drawbacks of course, no second action, no buy, put 5 cards back. Seems fair. Biggest problem perhaps that it can easier be played every turn than Tactician. But maybe also its justification.

Quote
Scrapper:
Action
Cost: 2
+1 Card
+1 Buy
Return all treasures played this turn to the bottom of your deck
Clustered treasures. I still can't really rate this part of Mandarin. Can be really great, often it really hurts. Don't know...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 09:23:58 am by DStu »
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def

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2012, 08:25:44 am »
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I don't know, but is Pearl worded right? One Pearl says that you may return one copy of it to the bottom of the deck, so wouldn't 5 Pearls mean that you may return 5 times one copy? If so, it would be overpowered, since 5 Pearls would mean that you get 10$ every turn (unless attacked): Play 5, draw pile is empty, return them to the bottom of your deck, i.e. draw them again.

Edit: I misunderstood Reserves and edited it out. Let's say you have 5 cards in hand as usual. Maybe compare it now with other cards like Spy or Cartographer. I think it's way, way better than Cartographer. Ok, you don't discard cards, but you get to chose 5 cards out of 10 for each turn, which is huge, especially since it is non-terminal. Plus, the maybe bad 5 cards don't go into your next hand, but to the bottom of the deck, which may be some turns ahead, or, with cards like Chancellor, never.
Draw up to 10 cards can be even more a problem after handsize-reduction attacks or something like fishing village, and so on. Even Minion or Watchtower can be huge in this kind of decks, and they only draw to 4 and 6.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 08:32:25 am by def »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 06:00:30 pm »
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I don't know, but is Pearl worded right? One Pearl says that you may return one copy of it to the bottom of the deck, so wouldn't 5 Pearls mean that you may return 5 times one copy? If so, it would be overpowered, since 5 Pearls would mean that you get 10$ every turn (unless attacked): Play 5, draw pile is empty, return them to the bottom of your deck, i.e. draw them again.

Edit: I misunderstood Reserves and edited it out. Let's say you have 5 cards in hand as usual. Maybe compare it now with other cards like Spy or Cartographer. I think it's way, way better than Cartographer. Ok, you don't discard cards, but you get to chose 5 cards out of 10 for each turn, which is huge, especially since it is non-terminal. Plus, the maybe bad 5 cards don't go into your next hand, but to the bottom of the deck, which may be some turns ahead, or, with cards like Chancellor, never.
Draw up to 10 cards can be even more a problem after handsize-reduction attacks or something like fishing village, and so on. Even Minion or Watchtower can be huge in this kind of decks, and they only draw to 4 and 6.

It was supposed to read no matter how many pearls you played, you could only return 1 to the bottom your deck. I've changed it to 2.

I've also added a condition to Reserves so it doesn't get played like an uber powerful library.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 07:34:47 pm »
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2 Attacks (which are variants on other attacks)

Dweller
Action/Attack
Cost: 3
Each player (including you) reveals the bottom card of their deck. He either puts it on top of his deck or discards it; your choice.
Then, +1 Card, +1 Coin

Oppressor
Cost: 2
Action/Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
Each other player reveals the bottom card of their deck. If it is not a curse, he gains a curse and places it on the bottom of his deck.

Or
Cost: 3
Action/Attack
+$2
Each other player may return a card to the bottom of their deck and draw a card. Then, if the bottom card of their deck is not a curse, they gain a curse and place it on the bottom of the deck.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 07:53:41 pm by NoMoreFun »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2012, 08:35:24 am »
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I've also added a condition to Reserves so it doesn't get played like an uber powerful library.
You can't put that condition on a Dominion card. Well, not unless you want to break its interaction with Golem and Throne Room.
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DStu

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2012, 08:41:15 am »
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I've also added a condition to Reserves so it doesn't get played like an uber powerful library.
You can't put that condition on a Dominion card. Well, not unless you want to break its interaction with Golem and Throne Room.

Put to get the intended effect, you may of course allow to play it and condition (part of) the benefits on not having played an action.
Like:
Reserves:
...
+1 Action
If you haven't played other cards/If there are no cards in play/Whatever:
+10 Cards
...
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 11:12:04 pm »
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Flea Market
Cost: 4
The player to your left reveals the bottom card of his deck. If it's not a province or colony, you may gain a copy of that card or trash up to 2 copies of that card from your hand. If you do neither, +1 action.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 11:30:54 pm by NoMoreFun »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2012, 03:01:36 am »
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A bottom of the deck bureaucrat could be devastating if played multiple times
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eHalcyon

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2012, 03:34:55 am »
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A bottom of the deck bureaucrat could be devastating if played multiple times

Probably too devastating.  With Bureaucrat, at least you draw it next hand and clear your deck.  Bottom-Bureaucrat can accumulate over several turns and completely wipe the turn before the reshuffle.  On the bright side, a bunch of green cards miss the reshuffle.
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theory

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2012, 05:01:35 am »
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On the other hand, concentrating the bad stuff is a pretty good thing.  For instance, if I were going to get witched I'd like to see all my Curses in one hand instead of across five hands.
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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2012, 09:49:31 am »
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Yeah. I'd imagine that Bottom-of-the-deck bureaucrat is generally weaker than bureaucrat, except that it's probably easier to get a lockdown going (though still not at all easy)

NoMoreFun

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Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2012, 12:32:35 pm »
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Is having a dead hand worse than 5 4 card hands? If so, how about the following for oppressor:

Oppressor
Cost: 4
+1 coin
Each other player returns cards of any type to the bottom of their deck until he reveals a hand with no victory cards. Then, reveal the bottom card of his deck. If it is not a curse card, they gain a curse, putting it on the bottom of their deck.

Also another idea

Ghost Town
Cost: 2
+1 card
+2 actions
Either discard or trash the bottom card of your deck
Then, return a card from your hand to the bottom of your deck

Also a card I liked from Dominion - Piston Town (by user FishingVillage)


Buried Ore $5
Treasure

$3
______________________________

In games using this, before you shuffle, look through your discard pile, reveal all Buried Ore cards and 2 other cards per Buried Ore and set them aside. Shuffle your discard pile into your deck, then put the set aside cards at the bottom of your deck in any order.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 12:49:45 pm by NoMoreFun »
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