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[MiX]

As for "setup talk that gets us nowhere", if you have another topic you wish to talk about, go ahead. "You" here is collectively, of course.

Here's a crazy out there suggestion: We could talk about who we think is scum. For example, what is your opinion on everyone's favorite scumsters ADK and DatSwan?

Yeah, I was thinking about it, but I just got townreads from the conversation so I had nothing that I wanted to talk about...

Swan seems townier...whereas ADK seemed to do things I loved to do when I was scum.

[faust]

Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.

[Joseph2302]

Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.

Now that's interesting

[A Drowned Kernel]

Why are we all saying the Promoter is negative utility? If they guess right and target scum, they increase our chance of lynching scum to 50%. How is that bad?

This is also pretty accurate.

There are some town that honestly, incorrectly, believe that the role is negative utility. If there’s a scum!Promoter, then it’s a fairly valuable tool, and they aren’t going to claim. Being able to force a lynch between {Town*:X} is quite strong. If it’s a town!Promoter, it’s also rather valuable, as they’ll get to ensure their top scum read is one of two players to be lynchable the following day - and if that player happens to be town, they’ll likely be challenging their own top scum read. I’ll take that any day.

If it’s a Scum!Promoter, they aren’t claiming. If it’s a town!promoter, scum (plus some misguided town) want that player dead.

My expectations are that thus far scum has sided with “Should Claims” and “Neutrals” if it’s a town!promoter, and have been wherever they feel like if it’s a scum!promoter, as they have no intention of claiming anyway.

I think that you're overestimating the power of the town promoter. My expectation is that more likely than not, they'll target town, and more likely than not, their target will target town. If it was a useful ability, you wouldn't need to make it compulsive.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.

Now that's interesting

How so?

[MiX]

Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.

Since when does town decide on a lynch in 72 hours? All the games I've been town delayed lynching all the way to deadline and I doubt the existence of Promoter will change this, especially as early as D2.

[jotheonah]

As for "setup talk that gets us nowhere", if you have another topic you wish to talk about, go ahead. "You" here is collectively, of course.

Here's a crazy out there suggestion: We could talk about who we think is scum. For example, what is your opinion on everyone's favorite scumsters ADK and DatSwan?

Townread on Datswan. I don’t think scum faking not knowing the setup is a thing and I don’t think acum not knowing the setup is a thing.

Slight scumread on ADK, but I’m not vote-level confident.

Townread on faust, which increases the likelihood that he’s scum.

[MiX]

Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.

[faust]

Townread on Datswan. I don’t think scum faking not knowing the setup is a thing and I don’t think acum not knowing the setup is a thing.

I for one don't think there is evidence to support the idea that DatSwan didn't read the setup.

[faust]

Slight scumread on ADK, but I’m not vote-level confident.

Am I to take from this that you think Glooble (who you're currently voting for) is scummier than ADK?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Of the people who have participated in the setup discussion:

MiX- I'm leaning town, his posts tend to have an organic feel to them
joth- Leaning scum, his posts seem more reactive and less "rock-the-boat"
mcmc- The idea that MiX is/was traitor hunting seems like a reach to me, but also looks like genuine scumhunting, so some townpoints
galz- Disagreement on the power level of promoter aside, I think his post about where scum falls in the discussion was a little scummy; it looks like he's making a definitive statement without committing him to any particular read
faust- I can never read faust, I'll just assume that he's town for now
datswan- seems confused about the setup, his posts confuse me so I'm confused as to where his confusion actually lies. Pretty much null here.

vote: joth

[MiX]

Hot take: ADK and joth are both anti-town. Disregard this for now, just adding this to the predictions I made in my first post. I'll keep my vote anyway.

...My posts are bigger when I'm talking about setup. Maybe this is why scum loves it.

[Glooble]

Of the people who have participated in the setup discussion:

MiX- I'm leaning town, his posts tend to have an organic feel to them
joth- Leaning scum, his posts seem more reactive and less "rock-the-boat"
mcmc- The idea that MiX is/was traitor hunting seems like a reach to me, but also looks like genuine scumhunting, so some townpoints
galz- Disagreement on the power level of promoter aside, I think his post about where scum falls in the discussion was a little scummy; it looks like he's making a definitive statement without committing him to any particular read
faust- I can never read faust, I'll just assume that he's town for now
datswan- seems confused about the setup, his posts confuse me so I'm confused as to where his confusion actually lies. Pretty much null here.

vote: joth

What am I, chopped liver?

[Glooble]

In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.

[faust]

In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.

What are your conclusions from this?

[jotheonah]

Slight scumread on ADK, but I’m not vote-level confident.

Am I to take from this that you think Glooble (who you're currently voting for) is scummier than ADK?

No that was an RVS vote that I completely forgot about. Glooble is reading very town to me.

unvote

[jotheonah]

in fact vote: ADK

[A Drowned Kernel]

In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.

That was awhile ago. Looking back at your posts, my question for you is, what info were you hoping to get out of asking me if I thought that a compulsive vig was negative utility?

[jotheonah]

Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer:We shouldn't try to identify or control them, and furthermore I consider ADK's efforts to control them highly scummy. Scum is afraid of a vig, and they're extra afraid of a compulsive vig they can't control or predict. Let's let our town power role do their thing.

[Glooble]

In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.

What are your conclusions from this?

I don't know it's just weird. If he'd actually reread all the way back he would have seen that I was the first person to push back against the idea that the town promoter is a negative utility role, which I think ought to have given him some kind of read on me. If he didn't reread and was just going off his memory I think he would have remembered that interaction. He singles you out despite not having a read on you at all so why doesn't he mention me?


I'm not seeing anything scummy necessarily, just odd. I can't explain it.

PPE 1

In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.

That was awhile ago. Looking back at your posts, my question for you is, what info were you hoping to get out of asking me if I thought that a compulsive vig was negative utility?

Just trying to understand where you were coming from, honestly. Just in terms of why you thought the promoter was negative utility. It you'd said no I would have pushed back.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer:We shouldn't try to identify or control them, and furthermore I consider ADK's efforts to control them highly scummy. Scum is afraid of a vig, and they're extra afraid of a compulsive vig they can't control or predict. Let's let our town power role do their thing.

Man, I wish I had the faith in vigs that you guys seem to.

[faust]

Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer: you are wrong.

FTFY

The advantage of a vig is that it provides additional town-controlled kills. Promoter cannot do that.

[jotheonah]

Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer: you are wrong.

FTFY

The advantage of a vig is that it provides additional town-controlled kills. Promoter cannot do that.

It provides additional town control over the kill, which is similar.

[faust]

Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer: you are wrong.

FTFY

The advantage of a vig is that it provides additional town-controlled kills. Promoter cannot do that.

It provides additional town control over the kill, which is similar.

No it doesn't and it isn't.

[jotheonah]

Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer:We shouldn't try to identify or control them, and furthermore I consider ADK's efforts to control them highly scummy. Scum is afraid of a vig, and they're extra afraid of a compulsive vig they can't control or predict. Let's let our town power role do their thing.

Man, I wish I had the faith in vigs that you guys seem to.

When you're on a team, you should trust your teammates. I find faust's argument that promoter = vig is a flawed analogy more convincing than your argument that vigs are negative utility.