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[Joseph2302]

Before people complain, I'm rereading and thinking before revoting

[Joseph2302]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but 10 votes on 1 person is too many. Some scum must have been there.
Somewhat town on mcmc for pointing this out

[Joseph2302]

If I'm counting somewhat correctly, then the 3 biggest wagons right now are mix, ari and ADK.

Of those, mix is a no for me, so that leaves ari or ADK

[SpaceAnemone]

See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.

How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!

In related news, I'll be awake from about 90 minutes before deadline, though I have a meeting at work meeting 15 mins beforehand.

How strongly do you feel this way?

I assume you're asking how strongly I feel that MIX's question is a possible indicator that he's mafia. I'm uncertain, because it could be that he's genuinely trying to modulate his behaviour given how badly his playstyle went across last game, or it could be anomalous play.

I've been hesitant to vote him because I'm aware his style attracts votes in a way that's not linked to alignment, and also because I genuinely think that even if he's scum, he might contribute town-useful stuff in the later game, because his later-game inferences were good in the game where he was an SK.

I know Joth was around in RMM52, because he was modding it. Have any of the others who're currently voting MiX actually played with him before?

[Joseph2302]

ADK has had six different players vote for them.

Faust - for ADK name dropping the traitor a whole bunch
Joseph - sheep’s Faust (before Faust gave reasons)
MiX - (presumably voting for a different viable wagon)
Joth - unexplained
Swan - based on the amount of promoter talk ADK engaged I
Chairs - sheep’s Faust (after Faust gave reasons)
Faust return
Mix return
Joesph return

So most of these cases are promoter or traitor talk
Both of which weren't super helpful

I think it's scummier than anything ari has done, so Vote: ADK

I'm sleeping now, will be back in ~8 hours

PPE: 1

[MiX]

See why I asked? But I think not claiming softclaims VT whereas fakeclaiming PR is pointless town lying, in my opinion. Oh well.

How often in your other games have you asked about stuff like this? I feel that you're more likely either to flat-out demand that people tell you things, or just assert that you know things. The fact you're asking makes it feel like a play to me!

In related news, I'll be awake from about 90 minutes before deadline, though I have a meeting at work meeting 15 mins beforehand.

How strongly do you feel this way?

I assume you're asking how strongly I feel that MIX's question is a possible indicator that he's mafia. I'm uncertain, because it could be that he's genuinely trying to modulate his behaviour given how badly his playstyle went across last game, or it could be anomalous play.

I've been hesitant to vote him because I'm aware his style attracts votes in a way that's not linked to alignment, and also because I genuinely think that even if he's scum, he might contribute town-useful stuff in the later game, because his later-game inferences were good in the game where he was an SK.

I know Joth was around in RMM52, because he was modding it. Have any of the others who're currently voting MiX actually played with him before?

Galz gkrieg joth and chairs are the people that haven't played with me.

I think it's scummier than anything ari has done, so Vote: ADK

I'm sleeping now, will be back in ~8 hours

Vote: ADK

[Joseph2302]

Final thing I'll say for now is I think ari is just being an enthusiastic newbie. And if ari is scum, hopefully it'll become obvious in time anyway like it did last time we played

PPE: 1

[Glooble]

I know Joth was around in RMM52, because he was modding it. Have any of the others who're currently voting MiX actually played with him before?

I played in that game (only started co-modding after I died.) Iirc I thought he was scum, and I was right.

I don’t understand this mentality of hopping off a wagon every time we’re close to a consensus because it was “too easy”. Sure that might mean there’s scum on the wagon. It might also mean a player is acting scummy because they are scum.

[MiX]

I know Joth was around in RMM52, because he was modding it. Have any of the others who're currently voting MiX actually played with him before?

I played in that game (only started co-modding after I died.) Iirc I thought he was scum, and I was right.

I don’t understand this mentality of hopping off a wagon every time we’re close to a consensus because it was “too easy”. Sure that might mean there’s scum on the wagon. It might also mean a player is acting scummy because they are scum.

Do you think ari ADK and joth are towny? Would you ever move your vote to them?

[Glooble]

I know Joth was around in RMM52, because he was modding it. Have any of the others who're currently voting MiX actually played with him before?

I played in that game (only started co-modding after I died.) Iirc I thought he was scum, and I was right.

I don’t understand this mentality of hopping off a wagon every time we’re close to a consensus because it was “too easy”. Sure that might mean there’s scum on the wagon. It might also mean a player is acting scummy because they are scum.

Do you think ari ADK and joth are towny? Would you ever move your vote to them?

Probably would not vote joth today. Would vote ASK or ari. Would prefer you.

[faust]

Vote: MiX

[faust]

I don't really know the vote count but I prefer MiX over ari and ADK.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space count following #535

Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
MiX (5): Glooble, Chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
Galzria (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (3): DatSwan, Joseph2302, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): arishipshape
arishipshape (1): Galzria
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

[Galzria]

vote: ADK

[SpaceAnemone]

Galz gkrieg joth and chairs are the people that haven't played with me.

Fair, but given that Joth modded RMM 52, I'm going to assume he's read that game and is aware of your meta, and therefore if you are town and he's somewhat instrumental in lynching you, I should assume he's more aware of his actions than gkrieg or Chairs.

Urgh.. I don't actually want to be defending MiX here. I just want to be sure we don't let scum play up the fact that MiX apparently comes across as scummy and self-conscious irrespective of alignment.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: adk

[MiX]

Okay, this is probably my last post before deadline. Not much to add. Town will flip and between VT claim and unknown I almost prefer myself, so, yeah. Good night!

[Swowl]

Ok so a little under 11 hours and we are still pretty spread out.

1) MiX Wagon:
- If MiX was skum, pushing the promoter claim, I strongly believe they would of claimed town promoter here (if they were going to claim anything).
- It would not be ideal for skum, but I think that given the way the day has played out with them, if they are skum and there is a promoter, then there is a skum promoter. When they claim VT they look suspicious.
- If they were to claim Town Promoter, the only PR that could claim out of the same cell would be a Semi-Elite BG, which means nothing.
- They would however, then have to wake up the next day... which would be awkward if they are skum and claimed promoter.

Summary on MiX - At this point I think they are either VT or Traitor.



2) ADK Wagon:
- I have been promoting this based on the previously talked about Promoter claiming ideas for over half the day. I still think it is a good option.
- I am slightly doubting it based on reads and the way votes have moved around.
- I am very suspicious of Joseph's sheep vote on Faust that put ADK at 4 votes vs MiX's 4 votes.
- ADK's "general activity" matches the limited game time I have played with their town meta. Still the promoter thing was off at the beginning.

Summary - I think ADK could be skum. I do not think ADK and MiX are both skum. I think it is more likely that ADK is skum over MiX. However, I know have looked at Joseph....


3) Joseph:
- Supports the promoter claim at the beginning.
- Did not read the set up correctly. I do not personally put a lot of faith in that one, but it is something.
- Then, in post #235 he flips his read and says "wait we are trying to force the promoter out? I do not think that will work out the way we want it to". This could be due to the confusion of the set up, but that is not super relevant in regards to being pro or con the claim. So that is weird.
- Gives weird passes and reads. Like faust and Ari both get passes from Joseph. I actually kind of get the Ari one, at least from the reasons they gave... but the faust pass is strange. Could be conf!bias or partnery.
- Then there is #283 about there "being a traitor". By itself, not important. But combined with opening being pro-claim, then waffling on that, and the weak reasons for reads... I find it suspicious, specifically because the only argument for the 180 on the pro/con promoter claim could be "I didn't get the set up so I went back and read it", and now again, after this Traitor comment, they are still confused.
- #420 again referencing the upper right quadrant in the logic that there is a skum promoter.
- #439 says they are sheeping faust on ADK vote that puts ADK at 4-4 vs MiX.
- The off wagon players at this point are Space, EFHW, Chairs, MCMC, Ari, and Galz. If it is TownvTown wagons at this point, I have no problem at all believing there is at least one skum in that group.
- #506 "so either skum is bussing MiX, or they are not a known skum". I get that it is a reference to Town/Traitor vs Known Skum... but again, another reference to the upper right cell.
- He then limits MiX out of their lynch pool, leaving it between ADK and Ari.
- Unvotes ADK, then revotes shortly thereafter.

Summary - Given all the above, combined with the fact that Joeseph sits alone with myself and Mix on the wagon for ADK, and I think that between the three of them I like my chances in finding one skum... the skummiest of them to me is Joseph.

TLDR; I would lynch ADK to get the lynch off for the day. I do not want to lynch MiX... though if absolutely necessary, I would vs a no lynch. I prefer Joseph at this point.

I will be gone for the next 4-5 hours, and then I will be around for the 4-5 hours up to DL.

Vote: Joseph

PPE 5

[Uncleeurope]

Vote Count 1.5

"Oh, bother," mumbled Uncleeurope, "why must finals coincide with all these people voting for everyone like mad?"

He sat down and began tallying the ever-changing whim of a bloodthirsty mob.

"Looks like a few people have supplied their own vote counts, I may as well give them my stamp of Mod-Approval." Inwardly he corrected the statement to mark himself a co-mod, but he wasn't going to let his voice in on the secret.

With the counting complete, Uncleeurope leaned back in his chair. LaLight would be back soon, and it was his job to catalog the end of a life for one of these hopeful individuals. Uncleeurope looked forward to it.

Death was always exciting.


MiX (5): Glooble, chairs, jotheonah, gkrieg13, faust
A Drowned Kernel (4):, Joseph2302, MiX, Galzria, mcmcsalot
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
Galzria (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): arishipshape


Not voting (1): A Drowned Kernel


With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Wednesday, 1st of May, at 5:30 A.M.

[jotheonah]

I predict Ari will vote ADK to save MiX at the last minute (though I don't think the tie breakers work that way).

[A Drowned Kernel]

1) I don't like the mix wagon. I don't think that scum claims VT, like that, at the point that mix was at. If he's scum, that's some next level play. I also don't like, as has been pointed, that almost literally everyone has been willing to vote for him. And I have some suspicion for the people who are voting for him right now.

2) I don't like, even this close to deadline, how it's being set up as "having" to be me, mix or ari. I think that this is a pattern that lazy town is falling into and that scum is going along with. I have less of a townread on ari than on mix, but the fact that it's being set up this way smells rotten to me.

3) Looking back at the people who are voting/have voted for me, the player that really sticks out is Galzria. My only real experience playing with Galz has been a couple of blitz games on the other site, but in my experience there, town!Galz was very perceptive and engaged, while scum!Galz hung back and jumped on wagons opportunistically. The latter is what I'm seeing now; looking back at Galz in iso, his posts are all lacking in content. I don't know who's around to be convinced by this, but

vote: galz

ppe: joth

[jotheonah]

hot take: the adk wagon is scummy and the people on it are scummy.

adk's reticence to join the MiX wagon to save himself is commendable and towny.

galz could well be scum. but he's not a better lynch than MiX for myriad reasons.

[A Drowned Kernel]

hot take: the adk wagon is scummy and the people on it are scummy.

adk's reticence to join the MiX wagon to save himself is commendable and towny.

galz could well be scum. but he's not a better lynch than MiX for myriad reasons.

Do you earnestly think that MiX is scum at this point?

[jotheonah]

hot take: the adk wagon is scummy and the people on it are scummy.

adk's reticence to join the MiX wagon to save himself is commendable and towny.

galz could well be scum. but he's not a better lynch than MiX for myriad reasons.

Do you earnestly think that MiX is scum at this point?

now more than ever

[jotheonah]

but I'm definitely going to remember next time I'm scum that a half-hearted VT claim is all it takes for you people to lose your nerve