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[gkrieg13]

So something just occurred to me.

If we have a scum promoter, they want to set up a town v. town scenario. So they want to target a town player who they think will most likely target another town player. In other words, knowing everybody's reads is really, really helpful to them. We might want to keep a little more mum about who we think is town.

They don't understand how quickly my reads can change though...

[gkrieg13]

Although scum can't be sure of town vs town from it, because we could change our minds, and of course there's a traitor

Vote: Joseph

Only scum can know that there is a Traitor.

Eh, I would jump on this if it weren't Joseph.

[gkrieg13]

So does mcmc always have bad reads? It feels uncharacteristic, but the case itself isn't the worst so I don't know if he's scum or not.

On the other hand, gkrieg hasn't done much other than vote for me, and faust just moved his vote to Joseph for something that makes perfect sense in context...faust, do you have any other reason to vote there? Otherwise I think these are my scumreads...problem is these are all highly competent players that I don't want to lynch D1...

Haven't actually finished sorting reads (I'm ISOing everyone and that actually takes a while), but I wanted to ask these questions before I continue:

Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.

What's your thought on Joseph here?

And

MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation.

What does this even mean? Can you point me to something that demonstrates it?

I haven't seen the answers and they seemed important (yes, they're all implicit defenses but I see no harm in the first question and the second one would help me understand mcmc's case better).


Original thought: Space, why are you voting Joseph?

This is still a whole lotta "I don't really have any reads, so I'm voting for someone voting for me, because they aren't really around".

[gkrieg13]

Mcmc: What’s your favorite pet scumtell or town tell?

I;m confused, my favorite pet is a chicken.

My scum tell's are all pretty player based (hence my ari read apprehension) but I would say acting as though you have though your post through more then town would is my favorite scum tell.

My favorite town tell is playing with so much passion that your emotion comes through. it has been faked only a few times back in the day by galz himself and ash/yuma

Ash and yuma are the kings of this.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: gkrieg, faust is much more townier than I thought now that I ISOd him. Reads are still in a flux state but I don't want my vote on faust anymore.

Why are Sundays always this slow?

Faust is town, but dunno how that makes gkrieg scummy?

gkrieg's just not towny, which is more than I can say about almost everyone here...I also don't want to vote for mcmc, feels OMGUSy, and maybe he does play like this (although I didn't see it in RMM52).

To me, faust and ari seem town
Feeling less towny on MiX
And like most games I play, space seems somewhat scummy to me, but maybe just confirmation bias

I agree with your thought on Space, but I think I need to ask them a question.

@Space, what do you think of the promoter claim?

How am I not townie!  Also me not being townie and not claiming traitor usually means I'm town.

[SpaceAnemone]

If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.

Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.

Sorry I was going on the assumption that a town player wouldn't outright lie.

There are times when it is good to lie as town.

I agree, but I'd also caution that there aren't that many times when it's good to lie outright. I've certainly found it selfish of other townies to lie about events so that most of town has incorrect information to reason with, and only the lying townie has any chance of piecing things together. I can't recall game numbers off the top of my head, unfortunately.

I guess it's good for many n-shot PRs not to reveal whether they've used up their shots when it comes to the endgame (at least for roles like commuters and vigs, rather than info-gathering PRs).

Lies of omission are more commonly a good idea, since keeping information from scum is beneficial. Like, in RMM52, having a role unnecessarily revealed by a townie late in the game was part of what meant town couldn't win, because scum knew exactly who they could safely kill, so town lost the slim chance of winning because scum might otherwise have targeted a commuter.

PPE many lots. <3 to gkrieg for the spaciest space thing :-)

[gkrieg13]

Current town reads are:
faust, Space, Joseph, chairs, EFHW (because I don't scumread her, and for some reason know 100% when she is scum).

Everyone else I either don't have a read on, or have a scumread on...

Strongest scum reads are MiX, Ari, ADK (for faust's case)

[gkrieg13]

Faust, you still haven't explained your vote.

I'm so glad you pointed that out, or else I would never have noticed.

For reals though, I think it is soon time to explain, but I don't have the time just now.

Has faust been doing this kind of thing a lot lately?  I don't remember seeing this coyness from him before.

He came across as a bit crotchety at times (as town) last game I played with him. I usually find his mafia persona more prickly than he is in person, though.

Ok, that answers it.

[jotheonah]

Current town reads are:
faust, Space, Joseph, chairs, EFHW (because I don't scumread her, and for some reason know 100% when she is scum).

Everyone else I either don't have a read on, or have a scumread on...

Strongest scum reads are MiX, Ari, ADK (for faust's case)

I like these reads. I endorse them.

[MiX]

Lies of omission are more commonly a good idea, since keeping information from scum is beneficial. Like, in RMM52, having a role unnecessarily revealed by a townie late in the game was part of what meant town couldn't win, because scum knew exactly who they could safely kill, so town lost the slim chance of winning because scum might otherwise have targeted a commuter.

Creating a wall post as I speak, but I just have to say that the claim wasn't necessarily a death sentence for town (although it helped) because commuter still existed. Okay, back to wall posting.

Current town reads are:
faust, Space, Joseph, chairs, EFHW (because I don't scumread her, and for some reason know 100% when she is scum).

Everyone else I either don't have a read on, or have a scumread on...

Strongest scum reads are MiX, Ari, ADK (for faust's case)

I like these reads. I endorse them.

The fact that I'm townreading gkrieg and scumreading you will lead to my death today. I might have to change one of them...

[MiX]

Okay, I do this every game, so I suppose I need to keep up the tradition: helps me as every alignment so it can't go wrong. I know that we don't want to give too much information to scum, so I'll keep it succint.

arishipshape: I'm not lynching him.

DatSwan: No one is lynching him.

chairs: Consistent. That's all I can say about him. No one is lynching him.

joth: Jokes a lot, focused a bunch of me, ari and ADK. Does almost nothing other than interact with us three. Scum.

MiX: Town. Seriously discourage this lynch, better people to focus.

ADK: Talks a lot about promoter given he's the one that brought it up. faust's case makes sense but I don't think traitor would do that: I would suspect scum would give traitor a way to claim, this way there would be communication (for all scum know ADK's not traitor, maybe someone else signaled better, who knows, I've never played with traitor). My previous townread on him is failing, not sure where he's positioned in my reads anymore. Would lynch.

gkrieg: No one is lynching him.

mcmc: I have no idea. "Not town!mcmc" is probably how I would describe him. His logic seems to make sense sometimes so not exactly my favourite here. Would lynch.

Glooble: Town. Oops. Unvote, sorry about that. I still think voting there was justified, but I clearly needed to re-reread Glooble to get a better read.

Galzria: Not knowing his meta is hurting me, but I read a scum game where he basically bussed early. Didn't happen here, plus he seems more confident on his vote, so he seems town. I'll need to see more, however. I'm not lynching him.

faust: No one is lynching him.

Joseph: Different. I need to reread the game I played with him to see just how different. I'm not lynching him.

Space: Town, as I've said.

EFHW: No one is lynching her.


Overall, I think mcmc, ADK or joth are the scummiest bunch from the people I actually want to lynch today. Of those;

Vote: joth, almost no content, a lot of it is focused on players he doesn't know, too many jokes for my taste, all in all does not seem to be helping town. Maybe I just can't read him, but he still looks like the scummiest of them all. I'll try to make a case on him just to rectify if he's this scummy or not.

PPE all the way from gkrieg's infinity posts, including mine.

[jotheonah]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

[Glooble]

Galzria: Not knowing his meta is hurting me, but I read a scum game where he basically bussed early. Didn't happen here, plus he seems more confident on his vote, so he seems town. I'll need to see more, however. I'm not lynching him.

How can you know whether or not someone if bussing if you don't know who their partners are?

[MiX]

Galzria: Not knowing his meta is hurting me, but I read a scum game where he basically bussed early. Didn't happen here, plus he seems more confident on his vote, so he seems town. I'll need to see more, however. I'm not lynching him.

How can you know whether or not someone if bussing if you don't know who their partners are?

Well he voted for me...

[MiX]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

Am I that scummy? Are you Jester? Can you tell me how pro-town you are? Because pointing out that me ari and ADK are scummy won't fly by me, and that seems to be everything you've done. Could be wrong, feel free to prove it.

[jotheonah]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

Am I that scummy? Are you Jester? Can you tell me how pro-town you are? Because pointing out that me ari and ADK are scummy won't fly by me, and that seems to be everything you've done. Could be wrong, feel free to prove it.

The only pro-town thing I've done is scumhunting? I see your point, I must be scum.

Just because my cases aren't walls of text doesn't mean they aren't there, valid, and sufficiently well-articulated.

[MiX]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

Am I that scummy? Are you Jester? Can you tell me how pro-town you are? Because pointing out that me ari and ADK are scummy won't fly by me, and that seems to be everything you've done. Could be wrong, feel free to prove it.

The only pro-town thing I've done is scumhunting? I see your point, I must be scum.

Just because my cases aren't walls of text doesn't mean they aren't there, valid, and sufficiently well-articulated.

Mostly that you have barely mentioned...anyone else. That and I find ari towny (and previously found ADK towny as well, but that's mostly for agreeing with his position regarding promoter claim). Did your scumreads ever change?

[jotheonah]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

Am I that scummy? Are you Jester? Can you tell me how pro-town you are? Because pointing out that me ari and ADK are scummy won't fly by me, and that seems to be everything you've done. Could be wrong, feel free to prove it.

The only pro-town thing I've done is scumhunting? I see your point, I must be scum.

Just because my cases aren't walls of text doesn't mean they aren't there, valid, and sufficiently well-articulated.

Mostly that you have barely mentioned...anyone else. That and I find ari towny (and previously found ADK towny as well, but that's mostly for agreeing with his position regarding promoter claim). Did your scumreads ever change?

Well, I was finding you towny at one point and now notsomuch. And I've wavered a bit on faust. But for the most parts my scumreads have not given me any reason to move them into the town category and vice versa.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm way behind, weekends are bad for me, I will try to catch up and maybe do a reread tonight

[Joseph2302]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this

Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter

[Joseph2302]

Vote: joth

[jotheonah]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this

Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter

This is only a problem if MiX is town and neither of us is lynched today.

[MiX]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this

Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter

This is only a problem if MiX is town and neither of us is lynched today.

Why are you setting this possibility aside? You could be wrong and your wagon might not go anywhere, so why do you think this is rare?

[Joseph2302]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this

Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter

This is only a problem if MiX is town and neither of us is lynched today.

But it's a problem that didn't need to be caused.
And it's a problem only if you're both town, I agree

[jotheonah]

I can't really tell if there's anything in that post I need to respond to, but I will say if I were the gladiator and it were day 2, I would be happy to make it you and me, MiX.

This seems scummy, like you're basically asking to be setup together.... if you're town and there's a scum promoter, then they'll see this

Best to hide reads so as to not help the possible scum promoter

This is only a problem if MiX is town and neither of us is lynched today.

Why are you setting this possibility aside? You could be wrong and your wagon might not go anywhere, so why do you think this is rare?

The worst scum can do if they have a promoter is target one of us. Then it’s up to us to decide if we want to call out each other. The very fact that we’ve had this conversation makes me less likely to target MiX in that scenario. So there’s a lot of layers of WIFOM. I honestly don’t think it’s a big deal.