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[SpaceAnemone]

Space, I have been known to attract votes from town as town in the past, so while that wagon looks great and it helped me vote Awaclus, I don't want to just lunch everyone on it until we got scum if there is a better lynch to be had

Yes, I think I've been one of those towns on multiple occasions. I am inclined to scumread you quite often, and in this instance I think I've resisted pretty well so far, but this doesn't feel so convincing.

My worry is not that you attracted town votes, but that you didn't attract scum votes. If you're town, you're someone who scum would want to wagon if there's a town swing in that direction. However, there aren't many places left for the inevitable scum votes to be hiding on that wagon now three of them have flipped town. That means that either EFHW in particular is likely to be scum if you're town, but equally it's possible that you're the scum there, or quite possibly both.

Vote: e

[Swowl]

Faust/Eddie:
Why do you think it is more likely that E! Is skum vs Chicken?

[Uncleeurope]

Faust/Eddie:
Why do you think it is more likely that E! Is skum vs Chicken?

What do you think of e? Because you seem to be a bit undecided on the subject.

[Uncleeurope]

Hey, Space, who do you think the baddies are? Whether they are Shraeye's buddies or no?

[Uncleeurope]

Guaranteed that come deadline there will be a mad scramble with people shouting about not being prepared.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Not dead, sick to the point of uselessness. I'll post substance tomorrow afternoon.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Meaning ~12 hours from now.

[faust]

Hi.

So...I have crotchety old veteran disease right now and am not posting a lot to ensure I don’t say anything untoward.

I will say, NK analysis is great and all, but any one NK could have been affected by the bus drive, whether by town or scum. I personally think folks are not taking that into consideration, especially when using the NK(s) to determine possibilities, to “know” for sure what a scum team was trying to do/who they were “trying to frame”, etc.

I will also mention the amount of self-confidence in some players’ posts/arguments/defenses is misguided and off putting, unless they are scum. Which, okay, but it just makes me want to lynch you.

So I can’t separate who I think is scummy for real and who I think should be lynched for style.

I feel you man. But i don't think we need to worry about Bus Driving. It's a 1-shot power and I don't think it would have been used unless there's a pretty strong reason to do so... and I cannot really see that.

[faust]

Faust/Eddie:
Why do you think it is more likely that E! Is skum vs Chicken?

- e's first proper read is this:

shraeye seems like town.

Conindicence? Maybe. but it helped plant the idea of shraeye's townieness in people's minds.

- the wagon on him, as has been talked about:
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, LaLight, [color0green]Robz888, Awaclus[/color], WestCoastDidds
3 conf!town as well as 2 people that I happen to think are unlikely to be shraeye's partners. Coincidence? Again, maybe.

- shraeye.

Here's my thoughts on e:
I feel like they were getting suspicion early on for being chipper and jokey.  It seems like they were getting slight impressions, magnifying them 1000% either A) because it's funny or B) because that makes people go "What?!" and get this big game rolling.  I put big townpoints on them for that.  My recollection is that once people started saying e was suspicious, then 2.71 started making more muted opinions.  I don't like that; reacting when others perceive you as scummy isn't in general good.  Like, if large cases were happening, and 2.71's defending them....coool.  But if people are like "feels weird" and then 2.71 changes the vibes they're putting out....don't love that.  So the townpoints will probably carry 2.71 off my list tonight.  But 2.71 is not my biggest townread no more.

This feels like the thing describe in the scum QT post from earlier where shraeye would post a weak case on a partner.

- e's original Robz vote:

And actually, speaking of moving off Robz,

Vote: Robz

1) posting about his meta off not being useful D1 and
2) his lazy vote on me that solidified my wagon as an actually viable lynch

Both things I can see scum!Robz doing. I know I said Robz was town for point 1 earlier, but I changed my mind

(emphasis mine)
That kind of awareness of being inconsistent is a scumtell.

- this is for later reference:

I am alive D2!

shows that e is aware of the fact that he's a frequent nightkill. In fact I think we had some statistics done at some point that showed his NK ratio being about as high as mine.

- first time Space mentions his D1 wagon.

Really like this wagon grab by Space, and especially since I know I am town it does add extra suspicion to WCD, Awaclus, and LaLightEFHW

e immediately tries to spin it so that suspicion falls on the people on the wagon, not himself. And 1 post later, despite just having supposedly seen evidence for his scumminess, he excludes Awaclus from suspicion for no reason.

- I think this is fake:

And if you want to use that as a scum slip be my guest. I was probably more presumptive than I needed to be, but this is multi-ball, right?

Now is probably a good time for you to read the setup.

But I have made it this far....

I think e tries to put on an uninvolved persona in order to deflect the nk away from himself.

- finally,

Vote: Awaclus

PPE: hammer?

hammers Awaclus without giving any time to claim. I think in a deliberate effort to make himself more scummy and not be nightkilled.

[MiX]

Well, you do have to acknowledge both people that flipped scumread me.

Ten people in this game have voted for you. The chance of any given player who flips having scumread you at some point is really high. I think we should at least consider the chance that it's just a coincidence that the people who scum killed were some of the 10 who'd scumread you.

Indeed, that's a possibility. I wouldn't know, can't really tell the difference based on flips. But it's clear raerae's scumreading me for the Glooble flip. My defense is that scumreading me for one flip automatically implies scumreading me for the other flip, which doesn't make sense, considering I couldn't have killed both.

Nope. Shraeye's team killed glooble for a reason, he didn't crumb, he wasn't obvtown, it was either a complete shot in the dark (which I know shraeye would never agree to), or it was to protect the team. I would just as happily have voted for anybody else had glooble pointed to them as much as he pointed to you. I'm not looking for who performed the night kills and then making up why they did it. I'm using what we know (shraeye's team killed glooble), what I know (how shraeye thinks), and figuring out what those facts point to (you are on shraeye's team). Shraeye's flip gives us extra information we don't normally have (knowing who had a part in the kill) and we have to use that knowledge.

Indeed, Glooble's kill points to me. What about shraeye's kill? Did you even think about who wanted him dead? By your line of thinking, I would've also killed shraeye for self-defense. Yet you never said that. Why? Because it doesn't fit the narrative you planned N2. You're relying so much on knowing how shraeye operates as scum that you never even considered the other scumteam's kill. Just because you how know shraeye would plan NKs doesn't mean no one else would.

Arguing with you is pointless, because from our perspectives the other's scum. Who wants clarifications on my raerae case? Space? I didn't see you argue against the case, just against my defense, is that correct? If so, what do you think about it?

[2.71828.....]

fausts post has a bunch of cool stuff, but how on earth was that hammer scummy?

[2.71828.....]

Also, I never intentionally try to be townie to avoid the NK.

[2.71828.....]

Also, I never intentionally try to be townie to avoid the NK.

scummy I mean

[WestCoastDidds]

Faust’s e post is solid and I appreciate the work.

faust, what about shraeye’s active bashing of the e wagon on D1. If e dies get lynched, doesn’t it look super bad for shraeye? Or I’m overthinking and if that had seemed more likely he’d have changed tactics and provided himself more cover?

[SpaceAnemone]

Who wants clarifications on my raerae case? Space?

I think your case on raerae is that she asserts that the team who killed Glooble must have done so for a reason, and yet she doesn't seem all that bothered by the fact that the team/SK who killed Shraeye also must have done so for a reason, right?

Her reason for the initial assertion is that the team that killed Glooble contained her husband, whom she says she knows pretty well, having been married to him for a while.

Therefor, I'll probably feel much more invested in your case if you can prove that she has an additional husband who's a member of the alignment that killed Shraeye, and that raerae is also absolutely convinced that this extra husband's faction would only have killed Shraeye for his scumreads.

[faust]

Faust’s e post is solid and I appreciate the work.

faust, what about shraeye’s active bashing of the e wagon on D1. If e dies get lynched, doesn’t it look super bad for shraeye? Or I’m overthinking and if that had seemed more likely he’d have changed tactics and provided himself more cover?

I mean, yes? I am not sure what your point is. It looks scummy because scum does not want their partner lynched D1.

[faust]

fausts post has a bunch of cool stuff, but how on earth was that hammer scummy?

How on earth was that hammer not scummy?

[faust]

Also, I never intentionally try to be townie to avoid the NK.

scummy I mean

how many times have you been scum that had to worry about another scum's nightkill?

[WestCoastDidds]

Faust’s e post is solid and I appreciate the work.

faust, what about shraeye’s active bashing of the e wagon on D1. If e dies get lynched, doesn’t it look super bad for shraeye? Or I’m overthinking and if that had seemed more likely he’d have changed tactics and provided himself more cover?

I mean, yes? I am not sure what your point is. It looks scummy because scum does not want their partner lynched D1.

I’m not sure what my point is, either. I’m just trying to think through the noticeable level of shraeye defense of e D1. It seems dumb to do for a teammate because it’s obvious.

[faust]

Faust’s e post is solid and I appreciate the work.

faust, what about shraeye’s active bashing of the e wagon on D1. If e dies get lynched, doesn’t it look super bad for shraeye? Or I’m overthinking and if that had seemed more likely he’d have changed tactics and provided himself more cover?

I mean, yes? I am not sure what your point is. It looks scummy because scum does not want their partner lynched D1.

I’m not sure what my point is, either. I’m just trying to think through the noticeable level of shraeye defense of e D1. It seems dumb to do for a teammate because it’s obvious.

And since you make that argument, it's no longer dumb.

[2.71828.....]

Also, I never intentionally try to be townie to avoid the NK.

scummy I mean

how many times have you been scum that had to worry about another scum's nightkill?

I have only actually ever been scum like 3 times in my history of playing here, and one of those times I was a SK and lynched D2 I believe

[MiX]

Who wants clarifications on my raerae case? Space?

I think your case on raerae is that she asserts that the team who killed Glooble must have done so for a reason, and yet she doesn't seem all that bothered by the fact that the team/SK who killed Shraeye also must have done so for a reason, right?

You are correct.

Her reason for the initial assertion is that the team that killed Glooble contained her husband, whom she says she knows pretty well, having been married to him for a while.

Therefor, I'll probably feel much more invested in your case if you can prove that she has an additional husband who's a member of the alignment that killed Shraeye, and that raerae is also absolutely convinced that this extra husband's faction would only have killed Shraeye for his scumreads.

Hmm...I can't prove that...but I think it's ridiculous to put so much weight on the Glooble flip just because shraeye was in it. Even if you know that person very very well (which raerae obviously does) you don't know what the dynamic inside the scumteam is, it depends too much on everyone in it. Even knowing what shraeye would say in it does not determine what the scumteam's intentions are: maybe others made compelling arguments that shraeye accepted, perhaps being multiball changes things, I wouldn't know. But what I do know is that, if shraeye hadn't flipped, the argument for "MiX killed Glooble because Glooble scumread MiX" is perfectly valid anyway. Raerae's assumption that shraeye would only kill people that scumread his team is simply wrong and I'm a living example of it, as I'm town and Glooble was scumreading me. Now, sure, raerae wouldn't know this as town, but I believe she would at least accept that she could be wrong...and look at the other flip. Maybe just once, maybe just "you're either Maquis or other-scumteam". But she didn't...because in her mind there was no way shraeye was ever looked upon as being town, because she knew from the start he was scum. I guess you can say that's her good old town self but I wouldn't buy it...eeeh, I should be rereading her...

Now that I think about it, a lot of my case on raerae hinges on knowing I'm town...so it's understandable that you don't accept it. Open for questions as always.

Vote: e

[2.71828.....]

Ugh. Wagons on me. I always feel awkward defending myself, much prefer to go on the offensive and find another wagon to focus on. Like chicken, for example.

[2.71828.....]

One thing, you can call me scum (and be incorrect) just don't call me scum on the same team as shraeye.

[MiX]

One thing, you can call me scum (and be incorrect) just don't call me scum on the same team as shraeye.

Why are you not Maquis? I believe there's more pointing you towards there than non-Maquis...do you disagree?