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[Chickenwarlord]

Why were you townreading LL?

Does EFHW's entrance to the game change anything for you on that slot?

The biggest strike that people were bringing against lalight was inactivity. At that point alight had already prefaced the thread about their busy schedule  several times. It seemed a bit of a copout to barrel into someone for issues someone admitted readily before most of the discussion had begun. I feel like a scum\LL would have done more to push an agenda with their limited presence given the constraints.

EFHW entering changes only how I will feel about extended activity drops, seeing as this was an opt in.

[Swowl]

LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?

I posted this in my VCA - but because I had to choose between the two and I liked Robz more than LL.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, WCD, could you explain exactly why I am on your radar? Is it just the claim? Is my behavior a factor? Is it my voting?

I was commenting on the three wagonettes, which earlier today were you, MiX, and Awaclus. I do find your play more confident than in the past (but I probably am too) so I don’t know that it is necessarily scummy. Could just be increasing comfort with the game and format.

We are in one of these all too familiar places where the people doing the majority of the interaction just keep going around in circles with each other and everyone else checks in from time to time without moving us forward. I find this stage very frustrating because I don’t know how to move beyond it. Leaf water, perhaps. That might help.

[SpaceAnemone]

1) I do not think anyone discussing anything set up related deserve any skum points awarded. That is not specific to this game, but to most games in general. My line is pretty clearly drawn between "talking about potentially claiming" vs "the person of that role actually claiming".

Yes, that's exactly what I'm puzzled about. I felt like people in the game, possibly those with much more experience than Eddie, were already in agreement that Gul Dukat should claim, and yet you're scumreading him for claiming without complaining at all that it was a misguided agreement for other players to have come to, if you feel so strongly that he shouldn't have claimed.

2) Example on why I think the hated part would work in favor of a skum claim:

Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.

I have to stop you right here, claiming made you completely unlynchable D1 and you know that. I don't believe you didn't know this. It was also the first thing you said, there was nothing to "add".

The only way I think scum!Eddie would have been more likely to come out and claim that he's Gul Dukat than town!Eddie would be if it was pre-arranged with his scum faction in their QT in N0, in which case, again, I think the people facilitating the claim earlier in the thread should share in your suspicion.

3) In regards to all the counter claiming (yes that is my CC acronym) - you say "why would skum make it more complicated and incriminating?". Not to like answer a question with a question - but why would town make it more complicated and incriminating? I am not saying that I find a particularly high volume of good reasons why skum would act this way.... but I do not see reason for town to do so.

Town would not. Town should just to claim the roles they actually have if they feel the need to claim at all. I assumed with your discussion counter-claiming, you were suggesting a scenario in which Eddie is not in fact Gul Dukat at all, which is where I'm confused.

[SpaceAnemone]

That's all I've got time for tonight I'm afraid.. my band just had an album launch gig for our new CD and I'm absolutely wiped out.

[WestCoastDidds]

That's all I've got time for tonight I'm afraid.. my band just had an album launch gig for our new CD and I'm absolutely wiped out.

But how very exciting!!!

[Swowl]

Ruining said vote count by voting:

Vote: Snow

Why the switch?

Why not? I haven’t suddenly townread the guy if that’s what you are asking, he is still a suspect. Just wanted to throw a vote at Snow. I think he is the player posting the most with the least to say.

BUt we had such a good thing going!

What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?

I think Swan's timing was much scummier, especially because he left, Awaclus was at deadline so his vote wasn't final.

So in a non-defensive way, just want to make a point.
I voted Robz and put him at 5(6?) i can’t remember which. Regardless, i did it and said peace out I’m going to sleep. So I’m gone - as you pointed out.

For a moment, move past the comparison of me to awaclus, as it isn’t the point I’m making. I think it would be worthwhile to at least slightly focus on the fact that everyone that moved after i voted Robz knew my vote was staying there.
 I am actually not saying this to target anyone because to do so we would have to assume that one of the other wagons is skum and that is just too much WIFOM.

I guess my point is i know my vote wasn’t skum motivated, but i don’t think awaclus was either in this spot.

[Awaclus]

That's all I've got time for tonight I'm afraid.. my band just had an album launch gig for our new CD and I'm absolutely wiped out.

You should post about it in the music talk thread!

[EFHW]

I think town!Eddie had enough reasons to claim that his having done so doesn't make him scummy.

[EFHW]

Have we heard from e recently? It seemed like he was being seen as scummy Day 1. Did something change? (I promise to be more on top of events going forward,  but some help with Day 1 is appreciated.)

[EFHW]

I think town!Eddie had enough reasons to claim that his having done so doesn't make him scummy.

Don't discount the "it makes the game more interesting" factor, which Eddie also mentioned.

I may have a perplexing tendency to trust Eddie. It definitely didn't work out last time.

It's also important not to assume best play, especially with a relatively new player.  Datswan's theory seems to assume best play.

[Swowl]

I think town!Eddie had enough reasons to claim that his having done so doesn't make him scummy.

Don't discount the "it makes the game more interesting" factor, which Eddie also mentioned.

I may have a perplexing tendency to trust Eddie. It definitely didn't work out last time.

It's also important not to assume best play, especially with a relatively new player.  Datswan's theory seems to assume best play.

Yes i assume town would factor in best play.
More importantly - i am an idiot. I have been reading godfather thinking Miller this entire time.

Unvote: Eddie

All of my points make zero sense. How did no one call me on that?

[raerae]

We're heading out of town at the end of the week so I guess this is our VLA notice (I'm speaking for shraeye on this post only) and will be phone posting until March 17th, assuming I remember my dates correctly.

[raerae]

I don't sort an UncleEddie lunch, I don't think he's acting at all like he did last game, he seems to be paying looser, if that makes sense. Makes me trust him.

I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).

I think DatSwowl gets some townie points from me for owning up to that mistake, seems genuine.

[shraeye]

TLDR (as requested) - I cannot find a reason to claim GF in this set up on Day 1 as Town.

Come now, I'm sure you can do better than vote for someone on a theory disagreement.

Yeah, I see many posts saying this in more confusing ways.  Your overall points confuse me, but it looks like basic theory disagreement.  Swan, I'm not buying that it was a scum-move for Uncle to claim.  You should stop selling that if you want to turn a profit.

...aaand now I see your unvote.  Carry on!

[shraeye]

Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum today

It's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.

If you look at the Robz wagon, I think the point of no return was when Awaclus voted.
...
Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.

DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.

Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.

It's past my bedtime; what do you mean with all this?

[shraeye]

As for the three mini-wagons (wagonettes?) I sympathize with all of the MiX votes and it wouldn't take much to move there, but I don't really find him scummy as much as over-confident. I find Awaclus scummy enough to vote (which I did) because he is doing about as much to scumhunt as he did in the last game when he was scum.  The Eddie votes are okay by me, too.  He is coming into his own as a player and he is projecting more confidence now than when I last played with him. Could be his scum-chops have gotten better honed.

I'm in on Awaclus, sure.  But I'll jump back to MiX lickity split as well.

vote: Awaclus

[shraeye]

I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).

Did you mean Space?  Did I miss this post? 

[raerae]

I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).

Did you mean Space?  Did I miss this post?

Pretty sure I did and pretty sure there were two. I'll see what I can find in the bigger am hours.

[Uncleeurope]

As for the three mini-wagons (wagonettes?) I sympathize with all of the MiX votes and it wouldn't take much to move there, but I don't really find him scummy as much as over-confident. I find Awaclus scummy enough to vote (which I did) because he is doing about as much to scumhunt as he did in the last game when he was scum.  The Eddie votes are okay by me, too.  He is coming into his own as a player and he is projecting more confidence now than when I last played with him. Could be his scum-chops have gotten better honed.

I'm in on Awaclus, sure.  But I'll jump back to MiX lickity split as well.

vote: Awaclus

I have to say, this vote threw me, wasn’t expecting you to throw your vote there. Would you mind explaining why you suspect Awaclus?

[Uncleeurope]

I think town!Eddie had enough reasons to claim that his having done so doesn't make him scummy.

Don't discount the "it makes the game more interesting" factor, which Eddie also mentioned.

I may have a perplexing tendency to trust Eddie. It definitely didn't work out last time.

It's also important not to assume best play, especially with a relatively new player.  Datswan's theory seems to assume best play.

Yes i assume town would factor in best play.
More importantly - i am an idiot. I have been reading godfather thinking Miller this entire time.

Unvote: Eddie

All of my points make zero sense. How did no one call me on that?

That is hilarious, I had no idea what you were talking about. I actually was giving you loads of scum points for it too.

[faust]

Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum today

It's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.

If you look at the Robz wagon, I think the point of no return was when Awaclus voted.
...
Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.

DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.

Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.

Is there some sort of point you wanted to make with this or do you just find me very quotable?

[faust]

I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.

Another thing: faust was scumreading Jimmmmmm, people looking at NKs and looking for possible scumhunting scum might notice this. By pointing it out, faust sort of hangs a lantern on it and takes potential pressure off.

I think I already talked D1 about how I don't think scum wants to kill off lynchable players. I mean I guess I could have lied about this as scum, but what's the point? Scum doesn't want to lie more than necessary.

[ashersky]

I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.

Another thing: faust was scumreading Jimmmmmm, people looking at NKs and looking for possible scumhunting scum might notice this. By pointing it out, faust sort of hangs a lantern on it and takes potential pressure off.

I think I already talked D1 about how I don't think scum wants to kill off lynchable players. I mean I guess I could have lied about this as scum, but what's the point? Scum doesn't want to lie more than necessary.

You scumreading Jimmmm and hypothetical scum not wanting to NK him because he is “lynchable” are not the same thing.

Unless you are saying that as scum. Then it is the same thing. I think this is one of those scumthoughts being spoken as a normal thing accidentally. 

Good enough for a vote: faust at this point.

[faust]

I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.

Another thing: faust was scumreading Jimmmmmm, people looking at NKs and looking for possible scumhunting scum might notice this. By pointing it out, faust sort of hangs a lantern on it and takes potential pressure off.

I think I already talked D1 about how I don't think scum wants to kill off lynchable players. I mean I guess I could have lied about this as scum, but what's the point? Scum doesn't want to lie more than necessary.

You scumreading Jimmmm and hypothetical scum not wanting to NK him because he is “lynchable” are not the same thing.

Unless you are saying that as scum. Then it is the same thing. I think this is one of those scumthoughts being spoken as a normal thing accidentally. 

Good enough for a vote: faust at this point.

Of course I have written this to show that the scum!me perspective does not make sense. UoS was implying that I might be scum who NKed Jimmmmm. I am pointing out that scum!me would not have killed Jimmmmm. I don't understand why you think that makes me scum.