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[UmbrageOfSnow]

Part of my brain still thinks Robz and I are the same person, it's weird.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

Exactly, scum would prefer to kill the other scumteam. Coincidentally town would prefer for scum to kill the other scum, so what scum really want is to kill the other scum while not getting killed themselves.

Protecting Jake or a Cop is also a reasonable plan, but in the case of the IC, we don't really care about other actions getting redirected (and the other player should be top scumread) and in the case of a cop I'd say your read of the cop should trump protecting them. Remember, there is no guarantee cops are town and no guarantee town cops are a threat to any scum actually in the game.

I know I'll be inclined to let a cop that claims too early die and try to busvig scum, and I think we should allow Garak, assuming I'm not Garak, to have that option and set up an easy crumbing strategy that can be followed without agreeing to it.

[raerae]

Part of my brain still thinks Robz and I are the same person, it's weird.

Still thinks?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I subbed in for Robz in the last game, and kept rereading the game. Not that Robz said a lot, but it gets in your head.

[raerae]

I subbed in for Robz in the last game, and kept rereading the game. Not that Robz said a lot, but it gets in your head.

Gotcha!  For what it's worth, I have an inappropriate amount of trust for you because I look at your name and think, "Mods can't lie!"

[MiX]

I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

Exactly, scum would prefer to kill the other scumteam. Coincidentally town would prefer for scum to kill the other scum, so what scum really want is to kill the other scum while not getting killed themselves.

Protecting Jake or a Cop is also a reasonable plan, but in the case of the IC, we don't really care about other actions getting redirected (and the other player should be top scumread) and in the case of a cop I'd say your read of the cop should trump protecting them. Remember, there is no guarantee cops are town and no guarantee town cops are a threat to any scum actually in the game.

I know I'll be inclined to let a cop that claims too early die and try to busvig scum, and I think we should allow Garak, assuming I'm not Garak, to have that option and set up an easy crumbing strategy that can be followed without agreeing to it.

Okay, let me see if I get this straight...Scum want to target other scum, and town wants the kill to go to said scum. So why would they busdrive them and someone else? There's an argument for "scum's removing their own scumteam when looking for scummy players", which is valid-ish, but still, if you successfully pick 2 scum with Garak, or 2 town, you effectively do nothing, and if otherwise...you increase the odds scum dies? Is that the reason? I think I can see that, but that's assuming scum's reads are worse than town's, which I suppose is true, given that scum have less scumreads...

All this doesn't change the fact that there's no reason to go by scumreads: I don't know about you, but I don't have a definitive order on who I find scummy (at least I didn't last time), maybe I have, say, 3 scumreads, but I'm not sure which ones are scummier (apart from where my vote is). Couldn't we just say "If I was Garak, I would bus drive X and Y"? Or is that too hard to coordinate?

If Garak should busdrive cops based on his reads, should he busdrive a town!cop (in his eyes)? I say yes, in which case always targetting 2 scumreads will backfire.

@UoS, does that mean you find Robz scummy? Either that or you're scum, but you've been pretty towny...

[SpaceAnemone]

That 2nd point is something I've struggled with all my life, going back to like 4th grade group projects.

If you can't explain a good idea in 2 sentences some people stop paying attention and decide not to cooperate. Drives me crazy.

Yup. They're not even usually malicious about it.. just disinterested.

Anyway, I don't think the "two scumreads" thing is so bad in general. I just need to spend long enough reading this game to develop reads!

[SpaceAnemone]

GARAK

is plain bad advice. Bus Driver should only ever be used to protect a claimed Cop or IC. So target them, swap with another player (that you think is scum).

Is your advice necessarily any better given that scummy players are likely to be targeted for an NK by another scum faction?

[Robz888]

Now that <ongoing game> is over, I can just give faust all the townpoints I want, because they're pretty much doing the same here, at least from what I remember. I'll need to reread that game to get a feel of everyone who was there.

On the other hand, I gained a scumread on Uncle, but that's irrelevent, so whatever.

I was rereading scum!faust games (since I already knew some town!faust games), and my conclusion is that I have no idea how to read him. He just seems to do the same thing as town and scum.

On the other hand, I don't like Robz' vote on e where faust is a clearly better wagon (well, it's bigger, and he wants D1 to end right?), so until he doesn't go there:

FoS: Robz888 (treat this as a vote that won't lower faust's wagon)

That vote might be contradictory with my townread on faust, but I actually have no reason to believe that's not what scum!faust does, since I have...no idea what scum!faust's tells are. Does anyone know?

I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.

[Jimmmmm]

My few thoughts so far:

-ash is Towny
-UoS is probably Towny
-shraeye is scummy
-count me against no-lynching

Vote: shraeye

[raerae]

My few thoughts so far:

-ash is Towny
-UoS is probably Towny
-shraeye is scummy
-count me against no-lynching

Vote: shraeye

Is shraeye scummy for suggesting a no lunch?

[Robz888]

No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.

[raerae]

No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.

Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.

[Jimmmmm]

Is shraeye scummy for suggesting a no lunch?

No.

[Uncleeurope]

No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.

Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.

Bahaha

Priorities, amirite?

[raerae]

No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.

Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.

Bahaha

Priorities, amirite?

If true crime shows have taught me nothing else it's the importance of a good alibi or at least a good self-defense story!

@jimmmmmm, it's because he made a dad joke, isn't it? I'll take that as a yes and I fully support it.

But, in all seriousness, he's basically done nothing other than call for a no lynch and question MiX's ridiculousness so what's your reason?

[Swowl]

OK caught up. After all the hate of wall posting from the last couple games I am gonna forego it and just put it in my notes for me to enjoy.

Bullet Points:

- I do not think coming up with a no-lynch scenario is skummy. If anything, it is the opposite. I don't think skum would be bold enough in this set up to try to push something like that.

- What could be skummy... is agreeing with the original idea without further speculation.

- While I mostly agree with the consensus of "agreed upon towny players" to this point - I feel the need to point out that all discussion post RVS has been surrounding game set up mechanics... which is undoubtedly Skum's favorite topic of discussion. It stalls game play with info that everyone can conclude on their own accord and gives them to reply with said information making them seem like they have done a lot of insightful work... but really they just read the set up.

- For Gul, can someone help me out here? It reads:
"Gul Dukat - hated (stops working when it would take 1 or less vote to lynch) godfather" - So.... You are hated until you get to where you would be lynched and then it turns off... so you are not hated? Am I just being stupid?


And yeah everything else seems to be just usual Day 1 mish mash so far.

I see the potential argument for no lynch in this set up, but am against it. 

[Uncleeurope]

Hated works until it would take that many votes to work in total, like when three people are left alive, as far as I understand it.

[shraeye]

Here's the deal with no-lynch. 

Nope; but I'll never stop trying.

Even if No Lynch was a viable option, you shouldn't try to convince people of it, that'll destroy D1 if no one wants a lynch. Since it's not even a good option, it's anti-town to propose that idea. Come back near deadline, then it will be useful.

I'm not trying to get people to vote:nolynch right this minute. What I am heavily suggesting and will never stop suggesting is that no lynch is a viable end to Day1.  It should be in our arsenal.  There are 18 viable ends to the day (because lynching UncleEurope on Day1 is not an option).

There are people who are soooooo against no-lynch that they will literally vote for their biggest townread to ensure that "at least some lynch goes through."  That's extremist and absurd.  Less extreme, but equally absurd is people who will vote for regular townreads all in the name of #mustlynch.

Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.

Not just you, but others as well, quote statistics like they're Wayne Gretsky (you miss 100% of the shots you don't take).  sure the probability of a random choice hitting scum is 22%-33%, and the probability of a no-lynch hitting scum is 0%.  But that's not the point. 
A) LYNCHES ARE NOT RANDOM  (I literally can't stress this enough)
B) people act like the only metric worth measuring is is-scum-dead.  There is value in having town alive, and that has to be factored in if you insist on only using math. 


WestCoastDidds has a good point, but also mentions a wrong one people have

The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.

It seems unlikely that we’ll reach a consensus, yet it usually happens. Kind of wild! We still have lots of time to interact and pay attention so even if it seems impossible that half of us would agree to lynch one person now, we will likely get there by the deadline. Partly because most of us (based on my limited knowledge of a handful of games) will want a lynch, so as it gets closer to the deadline there will be some converging. And how we converge (or not) helps us have more to analyze in D2.

We could very much reach a consensus; it happens a lot.  But please please please PLEASE for the love of all things coffee-related, do not converge JUST so a lynch will happen.  There could be days in the future where it is more essential to lynch, many factors affect stuff like this.  But Day1, in an 18 player game, with 2 scumteams, and multiple roles that can save....that's checks every single box on the "is it reasonable to nolynch" survey.

It INFURIATES me that people see ~25% vs. 0% and then just mindlessly echo "ALWAYS lynch, ALWAYS lynch, ALWAYS lynch".  The issue is much more intricate than ~25% vs 0%.
Ok, that's off my chest.  I swear I won't bring up no-lynching again for a while.

[shraeye]

yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmm

Boooo for the lazy "read".  You have read enough games to realize Robz playing up is meta is what he does.  It's a Robz-tell.  So, yes, he hasn't been abducted and replaced by weasels.

I can't tell if that or this is the scummier vote:

vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.

[shraeye]

Ha, that prize goes to mcmc's, because as soon as I posted it I said "but LaLight didn't vote"

[shraeye]

I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

I know I'll be inclined to let a cop that claims too early die and try to busvig scum, and I think we should allow Garak, assuming I'm not Garak, to have that option and set up an easy crumbing strategy that can be followed without agreeing to it.

I disagreed with your first set of recommendations, and can't figure out what this means at all.  So put me in the camp of people who are now disinterested in following Umbrage-strategy.

[shraeye]

Why is faust scum? Why is everyone assuming this? I see nothing, but I'll reread his past games to be sure.

Everything else felt reactionary, but THIS is an interesting piece. 

MiX, who is assuming faust is scum?  Find me the quotes that compelled you to say this.

[shraeye]

Hey DatSwan!

If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?

[faust]

Why is faust scum? Why is everyone assuming this? I see nothing, but I'll reread his past games to be sure.

Still you are voting for me...