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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 348093 times)

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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2150 on: March 25, 2019, 09:49:10 am »

PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.
That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.

Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.

Your misrepresenting shraeye's MiX feelings, giving somebody a D1 pass isn't the same as town reading them.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2151 on: March 25, 2019, 09:57:08 am »

PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.
That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.

Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.

Your misrepresenting shraeye's MiX feelings, giving somebody a D1 pass isn't the same as town reading them.

Here's who seems like they're engaging well, acting towny to me; drawing questions/discussions about eachother:
MiX

I will let the audience judge on who's doing the misrepresenting.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2152 on: March 25, 2019, 10:02:39 am »

PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.
That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.

Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.

Your misrepresenting shraeye's MiX feelings, giving somebody a D1 pass isn't the same as town reading them.

faust also misrepresented me as "protecting" Shraeye when all I did was say I wasn't voting for his lynch D1 because he was a new-to-me player.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2153 on: March 25, 2019, 10:07:47 am »

I don't want to vote MiX here unless it comes down to a him-vs-me scenario, because I do think there's a chance he's just town making awful cases.

I do also think there's likely to be at least one scum between EFHW and WCD, so the fact that the two of them are both on his wagon doesn't inspire confidence that it's a well-placed town vote.

@EFHW: you asked me to post the D1 & D2 voting histories. What have you so far done with that information?

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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2154 on: March 25, 2019, 10:08:10 am »

faust also misrepresented me as "protecting" Shraeye when all I did was say I wasn't voting for his lynch D1 because he was a new-to-me player.

Again, happy to put this one to this audience:

No interest in lynching (townreads, people I think are not good D1 lynches, newbie)
[...]
9. Shraeye
The bracket doesn't include "new-to-me players" as a reason.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2155 on: March 25, 2019, 10:11:19 am »

faust also misrepresented me as "protecting" Shraeye when all I did was say I wasn't voting for his lynch D1 because he was a new-to-me player.

Again, happy to put this one to this audience:

No interest in lynching (townreads, people I think are not good D1 lynches, newbie)
[...]
9. Shraeye
The bracket doesn't include "new-to-me players" as a reason.
In fact, you also didn't play with Eddie, and he's on your would lynch list in this.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2156 on: March 25, 2019, 10:15:29 am »

6) Actually, I've played consistently, given that I've supported lynches of people on my stated would-lynch list. Do really you think scum!me would have put all my partners in the upper section and mostly only townies in the lower section?
Yep, it is oh so townie to never change your reads on anyone after D1. And yes I do. I mean obviously you'd have tried to put people from the other scum faction in the lower section, but I'd expect your partners being in the top part.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2157 on: March 25, 2019, 10:20:21 am »

faust also misrepresented me as "protecting" Shraeye when all I did was say I wasn't voting for his lynch D1 because he was a new-to-me player.

Again, happy to put this one to this audience:

No interest in lynching (townreads, people I think are not good D1 lynches, newbie)
[...]
9. Shraeye
The bracket doesn't include "new-to-me players" as a reason.
In fact, you also didn't play with Eddie, and he's on your would lynch list in this.

I haven't played with MiX before this game either, but both he and Eddie were looking opportunistic and non-townie to me.

I'm sorry if you don't like the way I'd chosen my words, but the fact is that raerae and Shraeye were both up there because I wasn't interested in voting for them on D1 them without playing a bit more first. You and Ash were there because it's silly to kill you off early when you usually get NKd and/or are forced into pro-town play when you're scum, for meta reasons. That doesn't mean I was explicitly townreading the two of you either.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2158 on: March 25, 2019, 10:24:48 am »

I'm sorry if you don't like the way I'd chosen my words, but the fact is that raerae and Shraeye were both up there because I wasn't interested in voting for them on D1 them without playing a bit more first. You and Ash were there because it's silly to kill you off early when you usually get NKd and/or are forced into pro-town play when you're scum, for meta reasons. That doesn't mean I was explicitly townreading the two of you either.
That may well be the case, but you did not say so, so it is disingenuous of you to accuse me of misrepresenting it when my interpretation was based directly on what you wrote.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2159 on: March 25, 2019, 10:30:25 am »

6) Actually, I've played consistently, given that I've supported lynches of people on my stated would-lynch list. Do really you think scum!me would have put all my partners in the upper section and mostly only townies in the lower section?
Yep, it is oh so townie to never change your reads on anyone after D1. And yes I do. I mean obviously you'd have tried to put people from the other scum faction in the lower section, but I'd expect your partners being in the top part.

I'm happy to vote for you just now if you'd like to see me grow as a human being :-)

The only reason I added point 6 above was that I was trying to help town in the limited time I had available at that point in D1, and posting lists of behaviours people can them hold you to is something I see as townie, because if I suddenly started voting opportunistically on people I'd said I wouldn't want to vote for, then you could tell I wasn't playing in a way that was true to my earlier sentiments. Sure, people's beliefs change as more evidence comes to light, so my D3 vote on e was barely influenced by my D1 list, but it was strongly influenced by other people's voting patterns from D1.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2160 on: March 25, 2019, 10:32:37 am »

I'm sorry if you don't like the way I'd chosen my words, but the fact is that raerae and Shraeye were both up there because I wasn't interested in voting for them on D1 them without playing a bit more first. You and Ash were there because it's silly to kill you off early when you usually get NKd and/or are forced into pro-town play when you're scum, for meta reasons. That doesn't mean I was explicitly townreading the two of you either.
That may well be the case, but you did not say so, so it is disingenuous of you to accuse me of misrepresenting it when my interpretation was based directly on what you wrote.

I'm sorry. I saw that there was a caveat I'd written about what qualified people for the top list, but I let my memory of my thought process from the time influence me more than re-reading the words I'd actually written for you to read.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2161 on: March 25, 2019, 10:32:44 am »

The only reason I added point 6 above was that I was trying to help town in the limited time I had available at that point in D1, and posting lists of behaviours people can them hold you to is something I see as townie, because if I suddenly started voting opportunistically on people I'd said I wouldn't want to vote for, then you could tell I wasn't playing in a way that was true to my earlier sentiments.
Or you know, if they suddenly started claiming that they put people on lists for different reasons than stated at the time.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2162 on: March 25, 2019, 10:34:54 am »

Okay, to be clear, I'm not going to vote faust just now, and I'm quite torn about where my vote should actually go.

Right now, though, I have some meetings to prep for, them I'm going to be AFK for a while. Back sometime after 3pm forum time.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2163 on: March 25, 2019, 10:49:38 am »

PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.
That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.

Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.

Your misrepresenting shraeye's MiX feelings, giving somebody a D1 pass isn't the same as town reading them.

Here's who seems like they're engaging well, acting towny to me; drawing questions/discussions about eachother:
MiX

I will let the audience judge on who's doing the misrepresenting.

This is what I was remembering, your quote is stronger but I also think shraeye would happily flip on a scumbuddy if they were being scummy, which MiX was D2.  So, as usual, I'm convincing no one of nothin'.

I was about to vote for MiX, then I remembered that I promised myself less tunnelling. 

Mix, your thing with e's townread of me was weird, but I understood you better when you explained it.

Your thing with faust is now weird.  Can you explain what your vote is doing there?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2164 on: March 25, 2019, 10:51:07 am »

PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.
That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.

Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.

Your misrepresenting shraeye's MiX feelings, giving somebody a D1 pass isn't the same as town reading them.

faust also misrepresented me as "protecting" Shraeye when all I did was say I wasn't voting for his lynch D1 because he was a new-to-me player.

I rolled my eyes at that post, it was so early and in multi-ball it isn't like you can KNOW who town is even if you're scum. 
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2165 on: March 25, 2019, 10:52:47 am »

I rolled my eyes at that post, it was so early and in multi-ball it isn't like you can KNOW who town is even if you're scum.
You can know who your partners are.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2166 on: March 25, 2019, 10:55:03 am »

I don't want to vote MiX here unless it comes down to a him-vs-me scenario, because I do think there's a chance he's just town making awful cases.

I do also think there's likely to be at least one scum between EFHW and WCD, so the fact that the two of them are both on his wagon doesn't inspire confidence that it's a well-placed town vote.

@EFHW: you asked me to post the D1 & D2 voting histories. What have you so far done with that information?

I disagree, again, scum can't know town from scum so not voting MiX because you think somebody on his wagon is scum is silly (unless all the cops happen to be on the same team which I think can't happen?).
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2167 on: March 25, 2019, 11:03:39 am »

I rolled my eyes at that post, it was so early and in multi-ball it isn't like you can KNOW who town is even if you're scum.
You can know who your partners are.

But, and maybe I'm misunderstanding what you were trying to convey, it seemed to me like you were saying, "Look at all the town people SA put on the would lynch side of life."  That isn't a fair assessment.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2168 on: March 25, 2019, 11:10:25 am »

I rolled my eyes at that post, it was so early and in multi-ball it isn't like you can KNOW who town is even if you're scum.
You can know who your partners are.

But, and maybe I'm misunderstanding what you were trying to convey, it seemed to me like you were saying, "Look at all the town people SA put on the would lynch side of life."  That isn't a fair assessment.
I'm rather saying "look how Space kept most of their potential partners off their would lynchs". That the would lynch list contains lots of town is a consequence of that.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2169 on: March 25, 2019, 12:21:36 pm »

Vote Count 4.4

Another knock at Worf's office door. He looks up- it's Gul Dukat. Worf sighs deeply and opens the door.

"Mr. Worf," says the Cardassian, with his typical, genial smile. "I love what you've done with my old office."

"I have not had time to redecorate, Cardassian," says Worf, "Now state your business."

"No need to be so combative," says Dukat. "I'm here to help. It sounds like you're having some trouble with vigilante justice in response to this rash of murders."

"I can handle the security of this station on my own," says Worf.

"I'm sure you can," says Dukat. "I just wanted to offer my valuable expertise. When I was in charge of this station I put down more than a few rebellions. The trick is just to execute ten Bajorans for every one of your people they kill. Simple, but effective."

Worf stands up.

"Get. Out. Of. My. Office," he says.

"Suit yourself," says Dukat, retreating. "But don't blame me when your whole station falls apart."


Vote count:

MiX (3): raerae, EFHW, WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (3): Uncleeurope, MiX, faust
Not voting (3): SpaceAnemone, ashersky,UmbrageOfSnow

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch most players. Day 4 ends at 12 pm forum time/US ET (16:00 GMT) on Friday, March 29th. Joth is V/LA for most of that time. I am your mod now. I also do not accept vobes.

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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2170 on: March 25, 2019, 12:50:08 pm »

@EFHW, you mention a few people as being less helpful in your eyes, but you didnít include WCD, do you find WCD to be helpful?
Intermittently.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2171 on: March 25, 2019, 12:58:55 pm »

I don't want to vote MiX here unless it comes down to a him-vs-me scenario, because I do think there's a chance he's just town making awful cases.

I do also think there's likely to be at least one scum between EFHW and WCD, so the fact that the two of them are both on his wagon doesn't inspire confidence that it's a well-placed town vote.

@EFHW: you asked me to post the D1 & D2 voting histories. What have you so far done with that information?
I went through everyone's voting history looking for patterns. I looked at the wagons at their biggest to think about the composition. I investigated Eddie's 19 votes and MiX's 21 to see if there was something there. I looked in particular to see how Shraeye voted and who was voting with him. I ended up suspecting UoS for sitting on faust as a safe scum!perch and only joining established wagons, a conservative voting strategy that scum sometimes adopts. And he was on 4 of the 6 larger wagons - LL, Robz, MiX, faust. Not e or Awaclus. I'll post that, maybe it's interesting.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2172 on: March 25, 2019, 01:03:35 pm »

Players currently alive and their presence on wagons D1 and D2:

e wagon: Didds, EFHW
LL wagon: Eddie, MiX, Didds, UoS
Robz wagon: Didds, UoS, Eddie, Space
Awaclus: faust, Didds, Eddie, MiX, Space
MiX: raerae, Eddie, ashersky, UoS
faust: UoS, MiX, Eddie

Eddie and MiX have so many votes, it skews the interpretation of their being on so many wagons. Space is only on 2, but faust is accusing them of voting for town too much. Didds is also on 4.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2173 on: March 25, 2019, 01:25:06 pm »

It would be good to update this for D3. Can't right now.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2174 on: March 25, 2019, 01:31:29 pm »

It would be good to update this for D3. Can't right now.

e wagon: Space, MiX, faust, EFHW, Eddie, ashersky
chicken wagon: Didds
MiX wagon: raerae, UoS

Not as useful as the others, but the chicken wagon is remarkable.
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