Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Vote Count 2.1


shraeye (1): Debatepro
Debatepro (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (9): faust, mail-mi, silverspawn, Uncleeurope, DatSwan, arishipshape, shraeye, EFHW, raerae

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends February 11, 2019, 05:00:00 pm

[Swowl]

I still wanna know what people think about the mason partner claiming - but for reasons I am setting aside for now, after looking at the VCA... I think it would be beneficial if a claim happened. The way that votes moved around the wagons combined with LL being killed instead of Skum trying to set them up makes me feel like having an IC would really help fill in the puzzle.
I don't want to put a ton of pressure on this, so I will stop asking now, but I wanted to say that piece. Also.. people should weigh in on the matter.

Are you denying shraeye being the other Mason?

Until they confirm it, i consider it in confirmed (did i miss them confirming it)?

[Swowl]

Also.. people should weigh in on the matter.

No they really shouldn't.

I didn’t say i thought it should decide the claim

[faust]

Also.. people should weigh in on the matter.

No they really shouldn't.

I didn’t say i thought it should decide the claim

Yes I am aware of this.

[faust]

The other Mason is town, you should trust them to know when to claim. Everyone who weighs in and says "I think the Mason should claim" claims effectively not Mason, thus further exposing the Mason, which is bad if the Mason thinks it is best not to claim.

[faust]

Vote: EFHW

[Swowl]

The other Mason is town, you should trust them to know when to claim. Everyone who weighs in and says "I think the Mason should claim" claims effectively not Mason, thus further exposing the Mason, which is bad if the Mason thinks it is best not to claim.

So the mason know best when to claim only when no one says they think they should claim? I feel like if they know when they should claim they should be competent enough in your example to not let general populus effect their decision.

[faust]

The other Mason is town, you should trust them to know when to claim. Everyone who weighs in and says "I think the Mason should claim" claims effectively not Mason, thus further exposing the Mason, which is bad if the Mason thinks it is best not to claim.

So the mason know best when to claim only when no one says they think they should claim? I feel like if they know when they should claim they should be competent enough in your example to not let general populus effect their decision.

I don't think you understood what I was saying... I tried to make it as clear as possible, so I'm really not sure how else to explain it. I have said nothing about "the general populus" affecting their decision, but if someone says "I think the Mason should claim" and does not claim Mason, then of course everyone knows that they are not the Mason. Like I know right now that you are not the Mason.

[Swowl]

The other Mason is town, you should trust them to know when to claim. Everyone who weighs in and says "I think the Mason should claim" claims effectively not Mason, thus further exposing the Mason, which is bad if the Mason thinks it is best not to claim.

So the mason know best when to claim only when no one says they think they should claim? I feel like if they know when they should claim they should be competent enough in your example to not let general populus effect their decision.

I don't think you understood what I was saying... I tried to make it as clear as possible, so I'm really not sure how else to explain it. I have said nothing about "the general populus" affecting their decision, but if someone says "I think the Mason should claim" and does not claim Mason, then of course everyone knows that they are not the Mason. Like I know right now that you are not the Mason.

So i get what you are saying - but no. I could be the mason looking for reactions before I claim. People should view it as a “if i was the cop i would of done X last night”.
Also the value of the mason is gone if we never know they are the mason

[Joseph2302]

A setup thing: only one NK means it's less likely to be a multi ball setup, right? As those setups usually have multiple NKs

[Joseph2302]

And I think Mason should decide when is best for them

[Joseph2302]

Also a rules question:
Mod: if Masons are in the setup, are there guaranteed to be at least 2 of them

[Joseph2302]

There's some weird setups where you can get 1 (useless) mason

[Debatepro]

Unvote Interested in hearing from SS and what they think.

[faust]

Also a rules question:
Mod: if Masons are in the setup, are there guaranteed to be at least 2 of them

I think LaLight would have let us know if they were a lone Mason. But instead they explicitly talked about a partner. Do you think LaLight lied?

[silverspawn]

Glad I'm still alive, would have been really tilted if I didn't get to do this

vote: ariship

I strongly feel like his EoD interactions are fake, and I almost pointed this out yesterday but then didn't get to it, also I wanted to see the flip.

He's been tunneling MiX all game, and then suddenly had second thoughts at the end of the day. One reason that's weird is that the EoD was the scummiest MiX has been I think, but whatever, we might disagree with that. More important is how he did it.

Up until this point, I was entirely certain of MiX's scumness. However, seeing how he accepts "inevitable" death, i'm only 90% sure now... absolutely not trying to sheep SS, but you do remind me of me in Secret Hitler when i'm good and know i'm about to get executed. I would really hate to be the rallying force of killing town... I wouldn't do this if I wasn't so sure I would be here and active for the next hour, but I am. unvote. If nothing else happens to change my views in the next 53 minutes, I'll reinstate my vote.

... *slams head against table*.
I don't know what to do! My theory is crumbling under MiX's current behavior. I imagined MiX would turn on me when I turned on him to try to cast me in doubt, but he continues to call me town and faces inevitable lynches with the most pro town behavior possible. I still kinda sorta suspect him, but even if I 100% decided that he was innocent, I don't think I can stop the MiX lynch. I'm not seeing enough voters online to turn the lynch on anyone else, and I imagine MiX is gonna get hammered regardless of what I do. I guess all I can do is get and provide information.
Regarding the getting, MiX. Why do you suspect Faust wanted to withhold reasoning from the town? And do you think he was right about those hypotheticals, or I? Be honest, spare me no logic.

The second post in particular reads really super duper fake to me. Besides the tone, there's the fact that

-- He's super conscious about how his vote will affect the outcome. "even if I 100% decided that he was innocent, I don't think I can stop the MiX lynch." (Bad because Town doesn't know the alignment and so is more likely to be busy thinking about 'WHAT ALIGNMENT IS THIS GUY I DON'T KNOW' rather then 'WELL IF I DON'T VOTE HE'LL BE LYNCHED ANYWAY SO LET'S GRAPB THAT TOWNCRED"
-- Exaggerates; "the most pro town behavior possible". Bad because as scum he would know that it's coming from town and be more inclined to think it's the most towny thing ever

The post just reads as if he knows MiX is town. I can't perfeclty put it into words, but I'm not sure if I've ever gotten such a string vibe of 'this guy knows the alignment' from a post before

I also don't like, though I agree this is a minor point, how immediately he responded to my 'yo votes are weak' post. As town, people tend to convince themselves that they are 99% sure someone is scum or something. As scum, all reads are fabricated anyway, so if he just threw out a silly numebr like 90% and I point out it's overconfident, it's easier to concede 'yeah sure it's not really that high'

The one thing that makes me doubt this a bit is how impressed he [ari] was that MiX found him towny. That's more of a towny thing. Like, you're a good guy, the other one isn't trying to turn on you, he must be town, too. But on the other hand, it also shows how much he was thinking about his own lynch, which is scummy. So... overall a few town points for this, but many scum points for the above.

[silverspawn]

Also, ari was one of those guys who really is new, right? (Since he doesn't know Teproc.) I think it's significantly more likely for a really new player to think that just being off wagon on a town lynch is really important, and not worry so much about how exactly he got off it. LIke, if he was experienced, there's more of an argument that you wouldn't try to get off the wagon in such an awkward way.

[silverspawn]

Ok, I've just been dying to make that post. Now I'll read the thread post day1.

[silverspawn]

silverspawn, what do you think about UncleEurope Eddie? 

He left no impression at all. Which might be kind of scummy.

[silverspawn]

faust, what do you think about DatSwan?

Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.

Credit someone voted for someone whom you have a scumread on? I hope it's not a lot of credit

[faust]

faust, what do you think about DatSwan?

Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.

Credit someone voted for someone whom you have a scumread on? I hope it's not a lot of credit

At the time we had 4 wagons, 2 were on (now) known town, one was a crappy wagon on mail-mi and then raerae. raerae is definitely the least scummy place to vote there. But yeah, it's not much obviously.

[arishipshape]

First things first: DANG IT! I knew it! I called it! I started to smell it all to late... RIP MiX. I will avenge you!
And I inevitably get flak for it.

Glad I'm still alive, would have been really tilted if I didn't get to do this

vote: ariship

I strongly feel like his EoD interactions are fake, and I almost pointed this out yesterday but then didn't get to it, also I wanted to see the flip.

He's been tunneling MiX all game, and then suddenly had second thoughts at the end of the day. One reason that's weird is that the EoD was the scummiest MiX has been I think, but whatever, we might disagree with that. More important is how he did it.

Up until this point, I was entirely certain of MiX's scumness. However, seeing how he accepts "inevitable" death, i'm only 90% sure now... absolutely not trying to sheep SS, but you do remind me of me in Secret Hitler when i'm good and know i'm about to get executed. I would really hate to be the rallying force of killing town... I wouldn't do this if I wasn't so sure I would be here and active for the next hour, but I am. unvote. If nothing else happens to change my views in the next 53 minutes, I'll reinstate my vote.

... *slams head against table*.
I don't know what to do! My theory is crumbling under MiX's current behavior. I imagined MiX would turn on me when I turned on him to try to cast me in doubt, but he continues to call me town and faces inevitable lynches with the most pro town behavior possible. I still kinda sorta suspect him, but even if I 100% decided that he was innocent, I don't think I can stop the MiX lynch. I'm not seeing enough voters online to turn the lynch on anyone else, and I imagine MiX is gonna get hammered regardless of what I do. I guess all I can do is get and provide information.
Regarding the getting, MiX. Why do you suspect Faust wanted to withhold reasoning from the town? And do you think he was right about those hypotheticals, or I? Be honest, spare me no logic.

The second post in particular reads really super duper fake to me. Besides the tone, there's the fact that

-- He's super conscious about how his vote will affect the outcome. "even if I 100% decided that he was innocent, I don't think I can stop the MiX lynch." (Bad because Town doesn't know the alignment and so is more likely to be busy thinking about 'WHAT ALIGNMENT IS THIS GUY I DON'T KNOW' rather then 'WELL IF I DON'T VOTE HE'LL BE LYNCHED ANYWAY SO LET'S GRAPB THAT TOWNCRED"
-- Exaggerates; "the most pro town behavior possible". Bad because as scum he would know that it's coming from town and be more inclined to think it's the most towny thing ever

The post just reads as if he knows MiX is town. I can't perfeclty put it into words, but I'm not sure if I've ever gotten such a string vibe of 'this guy knows the alignment' from a post before

I also don't like, though I agree this is a minor point, how immediately he responded to my 'yo votes are weak' post. As town, people tend to convince themselves that they are 99% sure someone is scum or something. As scum, all reads are fabricated anyway, so if he just threw out a silly numebr like 90% and I point out it's overconfident, it's easier to concede 'yeah sure it's not really that high'

The one thing that makes me doubt this a bit is how impressed he [ari] was that MiX found him towny. That's more of a towny thing. Like, you're a good guy, the other one isn't trying to turn on you, he must be town, too. But on the other hand, it also shows how much he was thinking about his own lynch, which is scummy. So... overall a few town points for this, but many scum points for the above.

Addressing the points one by one:
Tunneling MiX: What are you talking about? Didn't you read my summary post of other people? What about my argument with Faust?
Super fake post: Ok, so I get emotional when the stakes are high and the time is low. Congratulations, you have discovered that I am human. Sue me
Conscience about how vote will affect outcome: I was thinking big picture. The way I saw it, whatever MiX was it was to late for me to make a difference. I was right. I didn't know his alignment, but my biggest reasons to suspect MiX vanished during his, in my opinion, very towny facing of his demise.
Knows the alignment and exaggerates: Again, my best reasons for suspecting him crumbled extremely quickly. Granted, I probably assumed he was town more than I should have, but suddenly having no case against the biggest lynch on the board does that to you.
90 percent post: Just because the average towny has themselves overly convinced doesn't mean me throwing out a random high percent is scummy.
Impressed at MiX's read of me: Thanks. No contradictions there.

Let's not let this day get within 5 minutes again, shall we? According to the mafia bible,

I should probably step in: I'm fine with a LaLight lynch, but I would much prefer a shraeye lynch...I've been rereading some of his games, what I've concluded thus far is that he's much more consistent as scum, whereas he jokes way more as town. Now, I've only read 3 games, but I think this is a decent pool for me to get a taste of his meta...I'd love to hear the opinions from anyone who has more information on shraeye's meta (especially raerae). This meta matches with scum!shraeye this game, in fact, I'm confident enough to make a case:

- His initial vote on me is classic scumhunting: obvious, low effort and pro-town, I see this as scummy, since he doesn't do much between this and saying the reason.

- When stating his reason on his first vote, he compounds this with my flailing, saying that I went back and forth on his case; then, when I defended it, he essencially disregarded it, using it to further his scumread: I believe no one would do this as town; yes, WIFOM states that scum wouldn't do it either, but shraeye has definitly commited to mislynch me, at worst he doesn't have to make a good case on someone else, at best he gets a free mislynch based on towny's cases on me.

- Throws a lot of shade on uncle, especially for "looking for scummy things" against EFHW; I think that was towny from Uncle, as I was doing the same, I never said anything because I hadn't found enough, but uncle clearly thought otherwise, EFHW was an unscrutinized player and needed some pressure.

- Gives a townread on raerae, which is a very safe play, as she said (he would be called out if he hadn't said it), and...I don't see any more scumreads. For me this signals he very clearly intends to mislynch me today and will figure out the rest as he goes along, which is fine, scum only needs 1 scumread per day.

All in all, what I would expect as scum, almost TOO perfectly.

vote: Shraeye

ArisHipShape, give thoughts on mailmi

Giving information? Gladly.

Oh, Faust is still alive day 2?
vote: Faust

I'm not a fan of this Faust vote. MiX liked Faust, and he takes it back immediately after. What was with that? There is probably an explanation, but I'll need to hear it before rendering a verdict on Mail-Mi.

[mail-mi]

Oh, Faust is still alive day 2?
vote: Faust

I'm not a fan of this Faust vote. MiX liked Faust, and he takes it back immediately after. What was with that? There is probably an explanation, but I'll need to hear it before rendering a verdict on Mail-Mi.

It was a joke. Faust's town meta is to die N1 because he usually has really good reads. So, he's still alive, ergo he's scum.

[arishipshape]

Oh, Faust is still alive day 2?
vote: Faust

I'm not a fan of this Faust vote. MiX liked Faust, and he takes it back immediately after. What was with that? There is probably an explanation, but I'll need to hear it before rendering a verdict on Mail-Mi.

It was a joke. Faust's town meta is to die N1 because he usually has really good reads. So, he's still alive, ergo he's scum.

Oh. Never mind then.

How many votes do I have on me?
Also hopefully I'll be here for deadline.
Don't really want to lynch MiX; I'm in the same boat as Joseph. I could lynch raerae but I would need to reread her to be sure. Who else is up for lynch?

Pretty good, then you panicked and voted for MiX anyways. I sympathize with the panic, and SilverSpawn did seal the lynch anyways, but still. Let's see what the Mafia bible has to say on the subject:
(i'm to busy to find the post itself)
"mail-mi, ewww on that raerae vote, no explanation at this stage of the day is bad, as raerae posted, no one has good cases on her, if she's scum you'll need to convince people to join her wagon man."
Explanation for raerae vote please and thank you. Unless you already gave it and I missed it re-reading you.

[mail-mi]

Oh, Faust is still alive day 2?
vote: Faust

I'm not a fan of this Faust vote. MiX liked Faust, and he takes it back immediately after. What was with that? There is probably an explanation, but I'll need to hear it before rendering a verdict on Mail-Mi.

It was a joke. Faust's town meta is to die N1 because he usually has really good reads. So, he's still alive, ergo he's scum.

Oh. Never mind then.

How many votes do I have on me?
Also hopefully I'll be here for deadline.
Don't really want to lynch MiX; I'm in the same boat as Joseph. I could lynch raerae but I would need to reread her to be sure. Who else is up for lynch?

Pretty good, then you panicked and voted for MiX anyways. I sympathize with the panic, and SilverSpawn did seal the lynch anyways, but still. Let's see what the Mafia bible has to say on the subject:
(i'm to busy to find the post itself)
"mail-mi, ewww on that raerae vote, no explanation at this stage of the day is bad, as raerae posted, no one has good cases on her, if she's scum you'll need to convince people to join her wagon man."
Explanation for raerae vote please and thank you. Unless you already gave it and I missed it re-reading you.

I thought raerae was scummy. Don't have time right now to look back and remember why. Anyway I don't think we should lynch her today anyway.