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[jotheonah]

And how likely do you think that is?

(1) At this rate, very likely.

Based on what, exactly?

Why mess with what works?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Also, how much have you played with Robz in the past?

(2) A lot, but it's been a while.

It's interesting that Joth chose to just drop this in that big post:

Look, let's consider the possibility that Robz888 rolled scum. We know that Robz's lurkiness was a product of IRL factors. We know from the V/LA thread and some of us know from the fact that Robz is IRL a public figure. So that's for sure a null tell.

Like so while admitting IRL could be a factor for me, Joth is quick to dismiss that I am likely to post more and wants to scumread me for lurking, but also wants to preemptively say Robz lurking is null.

To new players: Robz traditionally lurks and is generally useless as town and effort from him used to be considered scummy. I think he's been trying to change that and we do know there were IRL reasons for Robz lurking, but look at the way Joth slips this in here, before anyone considers townreading Robz lurking.

[jotheonah]

WCD: weren't you in LYLO with scum LL in Adventure Time? Do you remember if she avoided voting for her partners in that game?

Reread complete....so, yes, he voted for his scum partner Hydrad consistently on Day 2 up to and including his lynch. So, its not unlike LaLight to vote for bus his buddies. It was only a two person scum team, so once Hydrad was lynched LL was in charge of his own fate and then won the day (by lynching me at the dentist!  I am still scarred!)

And in Czech, the next game, where LL was scum again, she tried to avoid interacting with her partners. (Also LaLight is practically addicted to voting for her buddies and was trying to break that meta in Czech, while kind of hilariously lying to you about it in Adventure Time.) But in both games there's kind of an artificiality to LL's partner interactions or lack thereof and it's something that I was wanting to put some time into and didn't have time for Yesterday.

Notably, this is something I expected Joth to be looking at given he was partners with scum!LL in Czech. (I also was kind of suspecting you for not looking at this, but not so much given how you answered my question.)

In Czech mafia I asked LaLight to bus me hard because it was very obvious I was going down after Dylan and I botched that claim and he was the only one not tainted. Honestly his LyLo would have gone better if he'd bussed us more earlier, but he didn't really. IIRC, Jimmm caught onto that.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

It's still bugging me that people are treating Jimmm's correct vote on LaLight as being the only decisive factor because I decided to vote first. LYLO stretched on forever and in those situations both town have to vote correctly.

Also LYLO wouldn't have gone better for you if he'd bussed more, but I was talking about LaLight's self meta, which I checked and he did bring up in the scum QT as well as talking about at the end of the game.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the point I was making.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Given LaLight's self-meta and Joth just having finished being scum partners with LaLight, it is bizarre that Joth wasn't looking at LaLight's partner interactions.

[jotheonah]

Also, how much have you played with Robz in the past?

(2) A lot, but it's been a while.

It's interesting that Joth chose to just drop this in that big post:

Look, let's consider the possibility that Robz888 rolled scum. We know that Robz's lurkiness was a product of IRL factors. We know from the V/LA thread and some of us know from the fact that Robz is IRL a public figure. So that's for sure a null tell.

Like so while admitting IRL could be a factor for me, Joth is quick to dismiss that I am likely to post more and wants to scumread me for lurking, but also wants to preemptively say Robz lurking is null.

To new players: Robz traditionally lurks and is generally useless as town and effort from him used to be considered scummy. I think he's been trying to change that and we do know there were IRL reasons for Robz lurking, but look at the way Joth slips this in here, before anyone considers townreading Robz lurking.

I don't know if it's coming across, but I am trying to be very charitable about your lurking re: IRL stuff. And if I've come off not that way, I apologize. It's a game. We all have as much time for it as we have, and it can't always be predicted. And, like, I didn't want to make a big thing out of it because I don't know if it breaks the ongoing game rule, but I am backup modding a game for you and that involves a certain amount of telling each other about our availability. So I am not saying, nor have ever said, that lurking for you is a scum tell or is scummy. And I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

All that said, you are a good, smart player and good, smart players use the opportunities in front of them. Being busy gave you an opportunity to be not informational and hard to read. I think you've been leaning into it, and I didn't want to give you a free pass to keep doing that. Now, since you have had a wagon and a day-vig threat on you, you have started to contribute more. And I appreciate that. But we're pretty far into the game, and I don't think we have the luxury to say "give him another day to scumhunt and show his towniness".

[jotheonah]

Given LaLight's self-meta and Joth just having finished being scum partners with LaLight, it is bizarre that Joth wasn't looking at LaLight's partner interactions.

You obviously aren't familiar with my meta, which involves not putting very much stock in other people's metas.

[jotheonah]

E, why did you use your one and only cop shot on N1, when you had a relatively small amount of information and a relatively large player pool?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

This is charitable?

And how likely do you think that is?

(1) At this rate, very likely.

Based on what, exactly?

Why mess with what works?

I do take this a bit personally, but rest assured I can leave this stuff in this game.
a) Because I think you are manipulative scum
b) Because even if you are town, town is sometimes manipulative and that's the game. I think there are plenty of people I've been furious at during a game and I have fond memories of them once the game is over. I think I once wrote "I want to strangle faust" in my private notes in one game, and I really quite like faust!

Also we shouldn't talk about that other game that may or may not exist, but I absolutely give priority to modding over playing and I think I can/should say that now that you've brought it up. I have an enormous amount of shame/guilt about previously flaking while modding, that was due to some pretty serious real life stuff and it's something that does bother me on an emotional level and not something I want to do again.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Now, since you have had a wagon and a day-vig threat on you, you have started to contribute more. And I appreciate that. But we're pretty far into the game, and I don't think we have the luxury to say "give him another day to scumhunt and show his towniness".

This ought to be a bad reason to think I won't keep posting. Also everyone is going to focus on addressing the points against them when they have a substantial wagon and a dayvig threat and it's super disingenuous to imply that is reason to think they won't contribute anything else. I'm the center of attention today and that's fine, I should be allowed to talk about your case against me.

And I think I've presented a pretty good case on you based on your case on me, which is scumhunting.

Also, I am contributing other thoughts which you are quite content to ignore.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

The most frustrating thing about Awaclus' hammer is that it ended the day 3 days early.

[ashersky]

Awaclus’s hammer isn’t scummy because you have to retrospectively look at it.

Like, I’m annoyed because I announced intent and then he stole the hammer from me. But that’s not scummy. MM claimed 3rd party, so he didn’t hammer claimed town PR or anything. And regardless of what one may think, removing third parties where we can’t be sure what they’ll do is in town’s best interest, so even if Awa is scum, the hammer wasn’t bad.

I feel like a lot of what you are “finding” scummy is just the normal, infuriating nature of playing mafia with Awaclus.  I’m not saying he’s town because I can never ever read him, but that’s just the way it is. He’s usually fine to lynch at any time, but there’s never a good reason for it (outside of investigation results)..

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Given LaLight's self-meta and Joth just having finished being scum partners with LaLight, it is bizarre that Joth wasn't looking at LaLight's partner interactions.

You obviously aren't familiar with my meta, which involves not putting very much stock in other people's metas.

Weak

[ashersky]

The most frustrating thing about Awaclus' hammer is that it ended the day 3 days early.

Might be frustrating for lurkers, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with ending the day at that or any point once folks have said their piece.

[ashersky]

vote: UoS

Happy to apply more pressure the old fashioned way.

[jotheonah]

UoS: As much as it might seem otherwise, I’m not married to my case on you. When I get a case in my head, I go all in to try to prove it, like when you’re assigned to argue a position in a debate. But if someone, even you, were to come up with a more convincing alternate wagon I’d be in. Right now, you seem like the most likely scum from where I’m sitting. Your lack of content contributes to that, but not so much because it’s scummy but because I look at your posts and see nothing towny.

[Awaclus]

The most frustrating thing about Awaclus' hammer is that it ended the day 3 days early.

A hammer is never late. Nor is it early. It arrived precisely when I meant it to.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

The most frustrating thing about Awaclus' hammer is that it ended the day 3 days early.

Might be frustrating for lurkers, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with ending the day at that or any point once folks have said their piece.

And yeah, normally I'm in favor of ending days early, but I was counting on those 3 days and said so.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

The most frustrating thing about Awaclus' hammer is that it ended the day 3 days early.

A hammer is never late. Nor is it early. It arrived precisely when I meant it to.

Upvote.

[ashersky]

The most frustrating thing about Awaclus' hammer is that it ended the day 3 days early.

A hammer is never late. Nor is it early. It arrived precisely when I meant it to.

Wrong. A hammer is late when it is after the deadline and doesn’t count.

But the again, I guess it isn’t a hammer then. Still, the point remains that one could wait too long to hammer. In fact, you used that argument earlier when you said you were worried if you didn’t hammer someone might be convinced to unvote. So you do see a possible “too late” scenario.

Awaclus has contradicted himself. Mark the time. 

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Awaclus didn't contradict herself, she just claimed wizard.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus has contradicted himself. Mark the time.

Oh ShiT.

[ashersky]

The most frustrating thing about Awaclus' hammer is that it ended the day 3 days early.

Might be frustrating for lurkers, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with ending the day at that or any point once folks have said their piece.

And yeah, normally I'm in favor of ending days early, but I was counting on those 3 days and said so.

Fair enough, but you can accept that there could be situations where scum try to prolong the day for nefarious reasons, yes?  (To be clear, I am not saying that was your plan yesterday.)

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Obviously. I'm just expressing my personal frustration with it.

[jotheonah]

And I think I've presented a pretty good case on you based on your case on me, which is scumhunting.

Weak